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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Super Heavy/Starship (BFR/BFS) - Earth to Deep Space => Topic started by: Helodriver on 06/28/2016 11:21 pm

Title: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 06/28/2016 11:21 pm
NSF Members

As we all are aware, Elon Musk is going to finally spill the beans on his Mars colonization plans at the International Astronautical Congress in Mexico this September.  NSF is going to have someone there to cover it in person and I'm lucky and fortunate enough to say that person is going to be me.  I have had the pleasure of covering for NSF SpaceX's Dragon 2 reveal in person and their presentations at Space Tech Expo as well as reporting on launches, launch and landing site construction, ASDS buildup and general SpaceX activities on the west coast.

At the Dragon 2 reveal, I was able to represent NSF and ask a few questions directly to Elon which he kindly answered, and fingers crossed, we can continue that conversation in Mexico.  NSF is going to fund this trip out of L2 revenue and I expect lots of L2 worthy content and NSF news articles to flow from Elon's announcement and also the other participants at the 5 day conference. For those of the contributing type, I believe Chris would appreciate anyone's efforts to chip in and finance this endeavor on behalf of getting some good spaceflight specific information out of the event and not standard "Is that a big rocket? How does this make you feel, Elon?" type of questioning that can be expected from mass market media. :)

Here's how it went the last time I met Elon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBaLYDbk4fY&feature=youtu.be&t=22m17s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBaLYDbk4fY&feature=youtu.be&t=22m17s)

(This is now fully funded thanks to the amazing support of our community! Well done everyone!)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: QuantumG on 06/28/2016 11:24 pm
No better person for the job. God speed.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AndyX on 06/28/2016 11:35 pm
Awesome! No better man for the job, other than perhaps Chris! ;D Going to be historic!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/28/2016 11:40 pm
Nope, I'd say Derrick is better than me for the job! :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lee Jay on 06/29/2016 12:21 am
Please don't forget to ask Elon how many African elephants his rocket weighs.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 06/29/2016 12:24 am
I was considering going myself but decided not to because I have never had a good experience in Mexico.  I'm already a L2 member but would still like to contribute to this momentous event.  How do we do it?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lee Jay on 06/29/2016 12:38 am
I think you can donate by following the link called *you can make your payment by clicking here* on the bottom of the the L2 registration page (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/l2/).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/29/2016 01:19 am
I was considering going myself but decided not to because I have never had a good experience in Mexico.  I'm already a L2 member but would still like to contribute to this momentous event.  How do we do it?

That's really cool. I don't want anyone to feel compelled, but it's not going to be cheap, so any help from the community would be appreciated as we want to cover all of Derrick's costs. Would be the same process as your original L2 payment (but any amount as it's outside of the subscription terms). Any current L2 members can mark it "IAC funds" on the "notes" part of the payment page so we can ringfence it.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: catdlr on 06/29/2016 04:10 am
I was considering going myself but decided not to because I have never had a good experience in Mexico.  I'm already a L2 member but would still like to contribute to this momentous event.  How do we do it?

That's really cool. I don't want anyone to feel compelled, but it's not going to be cheap, so any help from the community would be appreciated as we want to cover all of Derrick's costs. Would be the same process as your original L2 payment (but any amount as it's outside of the subscription terms). Any current L2 members can mark it "IAC funds" on the "notes" part of the payment page so we can ringfence it.

I placed my donation.  Thanks Chris for the instructions.  Have fun Derrick.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/29/2016 11:44 am
I'm so looking forward to Elon's talk and it's fantastic that NSF will be there and represented by Helodriver.

I've made a (modest) donation to NSF's IAC fund and I'm posting this simply to encourage others to donate too.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Star One on 06/29/2016 11:57 am
I was considering going myself but decided not to because I have never had a good experience in Mexico.  I'm already a L2 member but would still like to contribute to this momentous event.  How do we do it?

That's really cool. I don't want anyone to feel compelled, but it's not going to be cheap, so any help from the community would be appreciated as we want to cover all of Derrick's costs. Would be the same process as your original L2 payment (but any amount as it's outside of the subscription terms). Any current L2 members can mark it "IAC funds" on the "notes" part of the payment page so we can ringfence it.

Thanks for that info was wondering as existing L2 member.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Welsh Dragon on 06/29/2016 12:25 pm
I can't afford L2 (who can?), but happy to chip in a little bit for this. Maybe Chris can set up a link so people can just use Paypal etc?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Cologan on 06/29/2016 12:30 pm
I'll throw in some money as well. Can't wait to see what you bring us  ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 06/29/2016 12:48 pm
Just a FYI, but 2 months of L2 is $20, so if you're going to pitch in a little, you should be able to get a couple months of L2 thrown in, too. You don't /have/ to spend $100 or whatever.

If you already have L2 access, you can ALSO fund an L2 scholarship for aerospace students.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Jamie Young on 06/29/2016 01:32 pm
I can't afford L2 (who can?), but happy to chip in a little bit for this. Maybe Chris can set up a link so people can just use Paypal etc?

I think a lot of people can afford 20 bucks for two months of rocket porn. ;) The link in this thread is a paypal form, so you can still use that and the payment box is blank, so you could put in 5 bucks and add IAC into the "additional notes" part and that would be what you ask :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 06/29/2016 02:21 pm
Thanks Chris.  Glad I could help.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/29/2016 02:31 pm
I can't afford L2 (who can?), but happy to chip in a little bit for this. Maybe Chris can set up a link so people can just use Paypal etc?

While I don't want to this to turn into a L2 conversation...NSF L2 will fund Derrick for the week trip, but some help on that would be great but I'd certainly say no one should feel obligated and especially not if money is tight, so you answered your own question there (but really appreciate the thought). That's the only relevance to this thread, getting Derrick totally covered so he only has to concentrate on cornering Elon! ;)

Our community is awesome and helping will get the option of having their name or username listed in the resulting articles too (optional).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Bynaus on 06/29/2016 02:34 pm
Happy to help! Bring us back some amazing footage and infos, Helodriver!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: rcoppola on 06/29/2016 05:15 pm
What's the timeframe for donations?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Hauerg on 06/29/2016 06:22 pm
I can't afford L2 (who can?), but happy to chip in a little bit for this. Maybe Chris can set up a link so people can just use Paypal etc?
I'm onboard w 20,-

Regarding L2 fees: ask Chris about the lifelong membership. If you are young enough it is a steal.  ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: LucR on 06/29/2016 06:30 pm
Same here for $50. Received personal thanks from Chris!

Regarding the lifetime membership: I've purposefully avoided it for a while now.
You wouldn't be making a contribution to the site ever after...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Hauerg on 06/29/2016 06:34 pm
Same here for $50. Received personal thanks from Chris!

Regarding the lifetime membership: I've purposefully avoided it for a while now.
You wouldn't be making a contribution to the site ever after...
Well, I just did.  ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Poole Amateur on 06/29/2016 07:09 pm
A big thank you Derrick for all your brilliant coverage. I have made a small contribution so please have a drink on me!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: woods170 on 06/29/2016 07:14 pm
Regarding the lifetime membership: I've purposefully avoided it for a while now.
You wouldn't be making a contribution to the site ever after...
[Jim]Incorrect[/Jim]
Some folks are silly enough to volunteer donations while having a lifetime membership.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: spaceskater on 06/29/2016 07:22 pm
Well I don't usually post things but I had to come out of my lurking for this. Thank you Derrick! Did my part as well!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: tleski on 06/30/2016 05:02 pm
Same here for $50. Received personal thanks from Chris!

Regarding the lifetime membership: I've purposefully avoided it for a while now.
You wouldn't be making a contribution to the site ever after...
Well, I just did.  ;)
Mee too.  ;D
Good luck, Derrick and thanks in advance!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: SimonShuttle on 07/02/2016 09:54 am
I'll chip in. This is a big deal and having NSF repped by the excellent Derrick is an obvious yes, but also it helps Elon as it means he has one more person asking him proper questions and not "Elon, Elon. What's your perfect Sunday?" ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: zodiacchris on 07/02/2016 10:43 am
Done, just $25, but everything counts in large amounts... :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cartman on 07/02/2016 11:17 am
Lifetime member, just chipped in. Thank you Helodriver for the excellent coverage and NSF for being an oasis for us space geeks!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 07/02/2016 12:39 pm
I put some in too. I think it might make sense to set up a thread to start crafting suggested questions. Helodriver is highly competent and probably doesn't need help but it can't hurt...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/02/2016 01:14 pm
I put some in too. I think it might make sense to set up a thread to start crafting suggested questions. Helodriver is highly competent and probably doesn't need help but it can't hurt...

Yeah, anyone who contributed will get put into a special access thread for that. I'll also be throwing in an extra surprise for those folk just ahead of when Elon takes the stage.  :o ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Navier–Stokes on 07/02/2016 02:50 pm
Another lifetime member, I pitched in $25 to help out a little. So excited for IAC in less than 3 months!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Moonwatcher on 07/03/2016 03:54 am
Just sent $40. I only became a life member so I wouldn't have to remember when to renew. ;)
Been making contributions here and there to support the site ever since.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: PerW on 07/03/2016 03:16 pm
Glad to be able to contribute 50$ to NSF! It will be awesome to have a NSF expert on location!
Really looking forward to get to see the details of the Mars plan.
Good luck!

Maybe we can crowdfund a Marstronaut in a not too distant future!  :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/03/2016 04:04 pm
Amazing support...and we're over 80 percent towards the target for his flights, hotel, etc! Honestly, I thought if we got half, that would be amazing, and the site would cover the other half. Brilliant community support, not least with the quiet period of the July 4 weekend.

All contributors will be getting another PM from me, with a link, later today or tomorrow, per the idea of thanks in the previous post.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Rocket Science on 07/03/2016 04:22 pm
Thanks for the update Chris, just made my donation... Funny in a way since Elon created PayPal... Six degrees of separation! ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: JFARNS on 07/03/2016 04:24 pm
I'm glad to be able to be a part of this by making a small donation.  This will be exciting!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: ras391 on 07/03/2016 04:40 pm
Thanks, Chris. I just made my donation. Keep up the best web site on Space!!!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: docmordrid on 07/03/2016 07:10 pm
Count me in as well 👍👍
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Comga on 07/03/2016 07:33 pm
Ditto
Do us proud (again) in Mexico, helodriver.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: RedLineTrain on 07/04/2016 12:32 am
Definitely a worthy cause for what could be an historic announcement.

Best of luck to Helodriver.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: RedLineTrain on 07/04/2016 12:41 am
Looking at the IAF YouTube channel, I wonder whether the IAF is set up to handle all of the interest in Musk's speech and the accompanying technical briefing.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Unobscured Vision on 07/04/2016 03:23 am
Hiya folks, this'll be my first post here. Long time reader/lurker, purchased my L2 Subscription just a few days ago.  ;) Pleasure to meet you all.

I've kicked in some fundage to help represent NSF also. Hope it helps out!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 07/04/2016 03:24 am
Looking at the IAF YouTube channel, I wonder whether the IAF is set up to handle all of the interest in Musk's speech and the accompanying technical briefing.

Someone should give them a heads up. Not that they will believe it.... but when they say "we know, it's going to be large interest and a high bandwidth thing" the thing to say is "you're probably underestimating by at least an order of magnitude"...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: theebag on 07/04/2016 12:17 pm
Pitched something in, for drinks and stuff - also important :D. Have fun Helodriver !
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: wing runner on 07/04/2016 04:29 pm
Proud lifetime member recently feeling that I still owe more for the awesome content.  25$ to further my support. love you guys 8)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Eer on 07/04/2016 04:48 pm
Looking at the IAF YouTube channel, I wonder whether the IAF is set up to handle all of the interest in Musk's speech and the accompanying technical briefing.

Someone should give them a heads up. Not that they will believe it.... but when they say "we know, it's going to be large interest and a high bandwidth thing" the thing to say is "you're probably underestimating by at least an order of magnitude"...

The thing to do would be to have Chris contact them about hosting the web stream ... or at least, point them at SpaceX' streaming site for an order of magnitude bandwidth estimate of potential interest.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: DigitalMan on 07/04/2016 04:58 pm
Looking at the IAF YouTube channel, I wonder whether the IAF is set up to handle all of the interest in Musk's speech and the accompanying technical briefing.

Someone should give them a heads up. Not that they will believe it.... but when they say "we know, it's going to be large interest and a high bandwidth thing" the thing to say is "you're probably underestimating by at least an order of magnitude"...

The thing to do would be to have Chris contact them about hosting the web stream ... or at least, point them at SpaceX' streaming site for an order of magnitude bandwidth estimate of potential interest.

What's wrong with YouTube hosting it?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: sfxtd on 07/04/2016 05:03 pm
Looking at the IAF YouTube channel, I wonder whether the IAF is set up to handle all of the interest in Musk's speech and the accompanying technical briefing.

Someone should give them a heads up. Not that they will believe it.... but when they say "we know, it's going to be large interest and a high bandwidth thing" the thing to say is "you're probably underestimating by at least an order of magnitude"...

The thing to do would be to have Chris contact them about hosting the web stream ... or at least, point them at SpaceX' streaming site for an order of magnitude bandwidth estimate of potential interest.

What's wrong with YouTube hosting it?

It does seem like Google has more resources than NSF.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ionmars on 07/04/2016 05:17 pm
Just added my contribution. Helodriver, have a safer trip than MCT to Mars. :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Eer on 07/04/2016 07:03 pm
Looking at the IAF YouTube channel, I wonder whether the IAF is set up to handle all of the interest in Musk's speech and the accompanying technical briefing.

Someone should give them a heads up. Not that they will believe it.... but when they say "we know, it's going to be large interest and a high bandwidth thing" the thing to say is "you're probably underestimating by at least an order of magnitude"...

The thing to do would be to have Chris contact them about hosting the web stream ... or at least, point them at SpaceX' streaming site for an order of magnitude bandwidth estimate of potential interest.

What's wrong with YouTube hosting it?

You're right - if they're using Youtube or another major streaming site, no issues.  I just know NSF site has had to beef up its game to handle peak traffic, and that's really what I was thinking about.

I'm hoping there'll be live stream of the conference, or at least of the SpaceX presentations ...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/04/2016 09:38 pm
I put some in too. I think it might make sense to set up a thread to start crafting suggested questions. Helodriver is highly competent and probably doesn't need help but it can't hurt...

Yeah, anyone who contributed will get put into a special access thread for that. I'll also be throwing in an extra surprise for those folk just ahead of when Elon takes the stage.  :o ;D

And we've reached the total to cover Derrick's costs! Amazing community support! Everyone that has contributed should have been sent a PM from me, per the above. If I messed up and left one person out (I get distracted when going through lists ;D) simply fire me a PM saying "Oi, Chris! You missed me!" :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Unobscured Vision on 07/04/2016 09:49 pm
I knew I was joining a top-tier Community when I subbed, but *wow*! You folks have truly impressed me and I'm pleased to have been able to help out. :) Hope it's just the beginning.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 07/05/2016 12:13 pm
I knew I was joining a top-tier Community when I subbed, but *wow*! You folks have truly impressed me and I'm pleased to have been able to help out. :) Hope it's just the beginning.

Welcome to the forum!
Enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: 411rocket on 07/05/2016 06:14 pm
Lifetime member, just chipped in. Thank you Helodriver for the excellent coverage and NSF for being an oasis for us space geeks!

Same here.

If things go like the Dragon 2 Reveal, Helodriver will be getting some good questions in, to Elon.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Bubbinski on 07/07/2016 07:50 pm
I just donated, have a good trip Helodriver!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: PahTo on 07/07/2016 08:02 pm

Just stumbled across this thread.  Money sent--thanks for your effort on this, Helodriver, and as always, thanks to NSF for the excellent coverage and conversation about all things space!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Nomadd on 07/07/2016 11:45 pm
 I hope Helodriver spends more time at the actual convention than I did at those electronics shows the company use to send me to Vegas for.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Oersted on 07/09/2016 11:01 am
I can't find info on the lifetime membership, but I'm interested. Could anybody pm me details if you can't just post it here?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: guckyfan on 07/09/2016 01:50 pm
I can't find info on the lifetime membership, but I'm interested. Could anybody pm me details if you can't just post it here?

I hope someone else can give a better answer. But I could see that option only after my first subscription which was for one year.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/09/2016 06:20 pm
I wouldn't want to derail this thread, so anyone inquiring about lifetime just needs to PM me. My office door is always open ;D

--

Thanks again to the amazing community here! Not long now until Elon gives the mass media some headlines that doesn't involve the worst of humanity!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: pospa on 07/10/2016 06:39 pm
My contribution just sent.
Helo, fingers crossed for you to get space for at least 5 NSFers hard core questions to Elon!  ;)
Do we have an open thread somewhere to place our suggestions?

Btw, IAC agenda has changed - Elon's lecture moved from Friday to Tuesday 27th from 1:30 pm to 3:00 pm
https://www.iac2016.org/Congress.html#congress
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 07/11/2016 02:34 am
My contribution just sent.
Helo, fingers crossed for you to get space for at least 5 NSFers hard core questions to Elon!  ;)
Do we have an open thread somewhere to place our suggestions?

Btw, IAC agenda has changed - Elon's lecture moved from Friday to Tuesday 27th from 1:30 pm to 3:00 pm
https://www.iac2016.org/Congress.html#congress

I hope that doesn't impact people who were going to attend only part of the conference for budget reasons....
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 07/12/2016 03:31 pm
I intend on being there for the whole event, every day, as long as it goes. Im going not just for the SpaceX panel, but will be asking questions and photographing other interesting presentations and displays too, as I did for Space Tech Expo, to generate many articles.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Space Opera on 07/12/2016 03:43 pm
Yep, a thread dedicated to questions to ask to Elon should definitely be useful.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: clongton on 07/13/2016 12:58 am
Have fun at the event guys. Hopefully enough additional donations keep coming so that you don't have to count your change :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Space Opera on 07/20/2016 09:15 am
Elon Musk's session has now a name: "Colonizing Mars - A deep technical presentation on the space transport architecture needed to colonize Mars".

"Deep technical presentation"... ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnxTWXXXgAAA8Xj.jpg:large)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 07/20/2016 11:58 am
1 hour isn't going to be that deep. At least there's not another talk right after him in the same room.

Some other fascinating topics!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 07/20/2016 07:37 pm
I note the 'space transport architecture' in the title. So BFR & MCT, perhaps something about FH & Red Dragon, but I'm guessing not much in terms of colony details etc.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 07/21/2016 01:32 am
I note the 'space transport architecture' in the title. So BFR & MCT, perhaps something about FH & Red Dragon, but I'm guessing not much in terms of colony details etc.
Well, probably includes ISRU, enough to fuel up the MCT/BFS. And the stuff to power that. And early missions which will use BFS as the surface hab.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Tuts36 on 07/26/2016 09:48 pm
Just resubbed to L2 for a year (finally got that fiscal year bonus check!) and I've added a little extra for this.  Not too late to add funds to the IAC jar, hopefully?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: guckyfan on 08/20/2016 06:41 am
An eMail that seems to have gone out to participants.



 
Quote
   Dear IAC Participants,

    The 67th International Astronautical Congress, to be held in Guadalajara, Mexico, from 26-30 September 2016 will welcome SpaceX founder, CEO, and Lead Designer Elon Musk.

    On the second day [September 27th] of the IAC, during a special keynote entitled "Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species", Musk will discuss the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars. The technical presentation will focus on potential architectures for colonizing the Red Planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years ahead.

What is this? A second presentation by Elon Musk, centered on future colonization plans. Or a cancellation of the big Mars reveal we were expecting, replaced by generic talk? I certainly hope not the latter.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: docmordrid on 08/20/2016 08:16 am
So Musk delivers the keynote, which IIRC is new, and the tech presentation sounds the same but with the prefix "potential." That could simply be the sponsors caution.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mikelepage on 08/20/2016 01:26 pm
An eMail that seems to have gone out to participants.



 
Quote
   Dear IAC Participants,

    The 67th International Astronautical Congress, to be held in Guadalajara, Mexico, from 26-30 September 2016 will welcome SpaceX founder, CEO, and Lead Designer Elon Musk.

    On the second day [September 27th] of the IAC, during a special keynote entitled "Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species", Musk will discuss the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars. The technical presentation will focus on potential architectures for colonizing the Red Planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years ahead.

What is this? A second presentation by Elon Musk, centered on future colonization plans. Or a cancellation of the big Mars reveal we were expecting, replaced by generic talk? I certainly hope not the latter.

It just looks like one presentation to me (are you seeing day 2 and thinking presentation 2?) According to the time table upthread, Elon's presenting from 1:30-2:30pm on the Tuesday (day 2).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: guckyfan on 08/20/2016 01:38 pm
It just looks like one presentation to me (are you seeing day 2 and thinking presentation 2?) According to the time table upthread, Elon's presenting from 1:30-2:30pm on the Tuesday (day 2).

Yes, I read this as the announcement of one presentation, I fully agree. However it does not sound at all like the presentation we expected. That's why I think there may be another presentation, not mentioned in the eMail.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: RonM on 08/20/2016 01:49 pm
An eMail that seems to have gone out to participants.



 
Quote
   Dear IAC Participants,

    The 67th International Astronautical Congress, to be held in Guadalajara, Mexico, from 26-30 September 2016 will welcome SpaceX founder, CEO, and Lead Designer Elon Musk.

    On the second day [September 27th] of the IAC, during a special keynote entitled "Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species", Musk will discuss the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars. The technical presentation will focus on potential architectures for colonizing the Red Planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years ahead.

What is this? A second presentation by Elon Musk, centered on future colonization plans. Or a cancellation of the big Mars reveal we were expecting, replaced by generic talk? I certainly hope not the latter.

It just looks like one presentation to me (are you seeing day 2 and thinking presentation 2?) According to the time table upthread, Elon's presenting from 1:30-2:30pm on the Tuesday (day 2).

It's the same presentation listed above.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 08/20/2016 09:37 pm
Quote
On the second day [September 27th] of the IAC, during a special keynote entitled "Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species", Musk will discuss the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars. The technical presentation will focus on potential architectures for colonizing the Red Planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years ahead.

What is this? A second presentation by Elon Musk, centered on future colonization plans. Or a cancellation of the big Mars reveal we were expecting, replaced by generic talk? I certainly hope not the latter.


Sounds exactly what we were expecting to me! 'Potential architectures' and 'technical challenges' will obviously include the transportation system; and if you're going to design a transportation system you better have some idea as to what you'll need to transport!

So Musk delivers the keynote, which IIRC is new, and the tech presentation sounds the same but with the prefix "potential."

Well, if you've got Musk outlining his Mars transportation system etc, what else are you going to call your keynote! And all colonisation architectures are 'potential' at this time.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 08/21/2016 12:29 am
Musk has acknowledged in the past that colonization would take much more than just SpaceX. SpaceX may be the primary logistical provider, but building a self-sustaining city on Mars will require help from all over the world, from industry, academia, government, etc.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: geza on 08/21/2016 05:43 am
Transportation architecture certainly includes production of return fuel. For this they have to mine regolit and extract water from it in large quantities: we are talking about hundreds of tons of water. Energy demand of this activity is also enormous. This is a larger surface operation than anybody envisioned before for an early Martian outpost. Current infos say that the first crew will launch (NET in '24) when crew return is assured. That is, they have to design and launch the autonomous regolit mining & water extraction equipment, together with the huge self-deploying solar panel system,  in '22, without any prior human experience with Martian soil and circumstances. They will design and build heavy surface equipments around an order of magnitude larger than any existing, or planned, Martian/Lunar rover. We have seen many-many detailed speculation about BFR/MCT, but almost nothing about the surface operation. If Elon will talk about the latter also in detail, I'll not mind if he spare us from fantasy figures on future Martian cities... He can rightly argue that the road is open, when he implements the reusable transport system.     
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: su27k on 08/21/2016 05:53 am
What is this? A second presentation by Elon Musk, centered on future colonization plans. Or a cancellation of the big Mars reveal we were expecting, replaced by generic talk? I certainly hope not the latter.

I don't think it's generic talk, more like space policy talk, i.e. if there's a 3rd Augustine Commission, this would be one of the options for going forward. I assume it would still includes unveiling of their own Mars architecture, after all that's the major enabler of colonization: an affordable transportation system to Mars.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Jcc on 08/21/2016 12:47 pm
You have to consider how "developed" the Mars architecture could possibly be without having tested much of the needed technology. They are about to start Raptor testing.  They apparently want to use carbon fiber tanks, which has never been done at that scale, nor the ECLSS, nor the ISRU, nor the energy production on Mars, etc. Musk can lay out the plans and ideas they have so far,  but he won't want it to appear unrealistic fantasy. Everything SpaceX is planning, as far as we know, are theoretically doable, but going from theory to hardware can force design changes and impose limits that are not foreseen at this point.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: ThereIWas3 on 08/21/2016 08:59 pm
I hope he doesn't just say "We are counting on other people to do that."  (ISRU, etc)  I want to hear about specific partnerships.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: guckyfan on 08/21/2016 09:04 pm
Fuel ISRU is an integral part of the MCT architecture. MCT cannot fly without it. They need to carry the equipment on the first flights, nominally in 2022. They cannot defer it to anyone in general.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: the_other_Doug on 08/21/2016 09:23 pm
My feeling is more that Musk's main message will be:

"We will self-fund creating and proving out the transportation system, and setting up a pilot base.  Obviously, we can't manage to create a million-person colony all by ourselves.  Once the transportation system is in place, reliable, and available at a reasonable price, we will be looking to the world community to buy passage for people and cargo and help us establish the multi-planetary civilization needed to ensure the survival of the human race."

I'd be a little surprised if this isn't basically what Musk says.  He will, of course, also announce some details on what SpaceX believes is the path to the first crewed landings on Mars, and about all of the things that will "have to go right" for that to happen in the 2024 synod.  That's the part we'll all be interested in.

But my impression of how the new description of Musk's talk will be reflected in what he says is what I stated above.  And, to be honest, it's nothing new to those who have followed the s**t Elon says... ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 08/21/2016 09:34 pm
I think SpaceX will encourage people to join SpaceX missions earlier than that. First crewed mission, even.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mfck on 08/21/2016 10:11 pm


I think SpaceX will encourage people to join SpaceX missions earlier than that. First crewed mission, even.

Not for the first crews, maybe, but for the first wave indeed, EM could approach the collective Jim with such proposition. It would be a token of respect as much as a challenge and a magical opportunity for the willing.



Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 08/22/2016 12:16 am
I think SpaceX will encourage people to join SpaceX missions earlier than that. First crewed mission, even.

Agree completely

There's a thread for this discussion here...

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40683.0

(Replies moved to the above thread - Chris).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: geza on 08/24/2016 08:55 am
Everything SpaceX is planning, as far as we know, are theoretically doable, but going from theory to hardware can force design changes and impose limits that are not foreseen at this point.

This is especially true for the surface equipment. It is difficult to imagine, that the very first MCT cargo transport can deliver the complete ISRU system in working order before the first crew departs at the following opportunity.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: CraigLieb on 08/24/2016 07:41 pm
Regarding the lifetime membership: I've purposefully avoided it for a while now.
You wouldn't be making a contribution to the site ever after...
[Jim]Incorrect[/Jim]
Some folks are silly enough to volunteer donations while having a lifetime membership.

Not to put too fine a point on this, you can even subscribe at the "double lifetime membership level". Comes complete with exactly the same privileges and benefits of the lifetime subscription and costs twice as much. Which, on a benefit density standpoint, seems like a disadvantage, but from a "I can sleep well at night, having done a good thing" standpoint is an excellent return.

 ::)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 08/25/2016 08:37 pm
Everything SpaceX is planning, as far as we know, are theoretically doable, but going from theory to hardware can force design changes and impose limits that are not foreseen at this point.

This is especially true for the surface equipment. It is difficult to imagine, that the very first MCT cargo transport can deliver the complete ISRU system in working order before the first crew departs at the following opportunity.
This is partly why they're doing Red Dragons first: risk-reduction of ISRU.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 08/26/2016 01:27 pm
Next month!
That's aggressive... ;)

Quote
Elon Musk to Unveil SpaceX Plan to Send Humans to Mars Next Month1
http://cdanews.com/2016/08/elon-musk-to-unveil-spacex-plan-to-send-humans-to-mars-next-month/


Nothing new in article -- don't bother.

(1) My fifth grade English teacher would have been all over that one.


Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/26/2016 02:53 pm
ESA Director General Jan Woerner meets the Press at IAC 2016

ESA Director General Jan Woerner will meet the media on Tuesday 27 September 2016 between 15:00 and 16:00 in room Desfilia, at Expo Guadalajara during the 67th International Astronautical Congress.

Prof. Woerner will give an overview of the programs to be proposed for adoption to Ministers in charge of space at the upcoming ESA Council meeting at Ministerial level, scheduled to take place on 1 and 2 December in Lucerne, Switzerland.

Space has experienced four distinct eras. It all started with Space 1.0, the time of astronomy (and astrology), followed by Space 2.0, the era of Vostok, Apollo and the space race; then came Space 3.0, the era of the International Space Station (ISS) and international cooperation; today we are living through Space 4.0, a period in which a whole new space dimension is taking shape: space more relaxed, fascinating, all-embracing. We are seeing much more participation by society at large, an increased number of spacefaring nations, the advent of commercialization resulting in new roles for industry and space agencies alike. The interests served are no longer just public, but also private and, at the same time, we are witnessing the emergence of space tourism.

ESA is ready to take on new challenges and fully embrace this new space era, seeing strategic challenges as opportunities for European space activities and continuing to innovate, inform, inspire and interact.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: CraigLieb on 08/26/2016 03:01 pm
Next month!
That's aggressive... ;)

Quote
Elon Musk to Unveil SpaceX Plan to Send Humans to Mars Next Month1
http://cdanews.com/2016/08/elon-musk-to-unveil-spacex-plan-to-send-humans-to-mars-next-month/


Nothing new in article -- don't bother.

(1) My fifth grade English teacher would have been all over that one.

...you can drink a hot cup of coffee while you watch them launch next month.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mikelepage on 08/28/2016 02:24 pm
ESA is ready to take on new challenges and fully embrace this new space era, seeing strategic challenges as opportunities for European space activities and continuing to innovate, inform, inspire and interact.

Glad to hear it, especially given their controlling interest in the Kourou spaceport in French Guiana.  That place would be the number 1 candidate to launch large payloads to equatorial LEO, with its extra low radiation levels.  Prime territory for large space hotels, one would imagine.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 08/29/2016 04:34 am
ESA is ready to take on new challenges and fully embrace this new space era, seeing strategic challenges as opportunities for European space activities and continuing to innovate, inform, inspire and interact.

PR BS - what else are they going to say? That ESA isn't ready to take on new challenges and will keep this new space era at arms length, seeing strategic challenges as threats best met by stagnation?

New British PM Theresa May, when asked in a recent get-to-know-you interview by her local paper 'Which words or phrases do you most overuse?', responded: ‘Actually’, ‘appropriate’ and ‘issues’, as in ‘Actually we need an appropriate response to the issues.’
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Syrinx on 08/29/2016 05:08 am
I didn't think Elon's presentation could be upstaged, but

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=36248

Quote
A candidate signal for SETI is a welcome sign that our efforts in that direction may one day pay off. An international team of researchers has announced the detection of “a strong signal in the direction of HD164595”

Quote
The work is to be discussed at a meeting of the IAA SETI Permanent Committee, to be held during the 67th International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Guadalajara, Mexico, on Tuesday, September 27th, 2016

Quote
We can’t claim the detection of an extraterrestrial civilization from this observation. What we can say is that the signal is interesting and merits further scrutiny.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: meekGee on 08/29/2016 05:39 am
I didn't think Elon's presentation could be upstaged, but

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=36248

Quote
A candidate signal for SETI is a welcome sign that our efforts in that direction may one day pay off. An international team of researchers has announced the detection of “a strong signal in the direction of HD164595”

Quote
The work is to be discussed at a meeting of the IAA SETI Permanent Committee, to be held during the 67th International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Guadalajara, Mexico, on Tuesday, September 27th, 2016

Quote
We can’t claim the detection of an extraterrestrial civilization from this observation. What we can say is that the signal is interesting and merits further scrutiny.

There are three categories of civilizations.

Type 1 civilizations are ones that still think that civilizations should be categorized by how much energy they use.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mikelepage on 08/29/2016 08:35 am
There are three categories of civilizations.

Type 1 civilizations are ones that still think that civilizations should be categorized by how much energy they use waste.

Fixed that for you ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: TomH on 09/01/2016 05:01 pm
I have to wonder whether today's AMOS-6 LOV will cast a pall, causing Elon to delay the reveal until more time has passed and this loss fades a bit.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/01/2016 05:26 pm
I have to wonder whether today's AMOS-6 LOV will cast a pall, causing Elon to delay the reveal until more time has passed and this loss fades a bit.
Yes I have had a sinking feeling all day, but EM if anything shrugs off things like this as "space is hard"

I've go my ticket I hope the show goes on and he announces as planned.

Nothing like a BFR to move the story on...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: David Still on 09/01/2016 06:07 pm
I have to wonder whether today's AMOS-6 LOV will cast a pall, causing Elon to delay the reveal until more time has passed and this loss fades a bit.

CRS-7 delayed his speech the last time.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 09/01/2016 06:42 pm
I have to wonder whether today's AMOS-6 LOV will cast a pall, causing Elon to delay the reveal until more time has passed and this loss fades a bit.

CRS-7 delayed his speech the last time.

Musk, musing late last night:
"You know, my speech is not quite ready and I haven't done any of my Powerpoints yet.
There must be SOME way I can get an excuse to delay it again..."
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Eerie on 09/01/2016 06:46 pm
Musk, musing late last night:
"You know, my speech is not quite ready and I haven't done any of my Powerpoints yet.
There must be SOME way I can get an excuse to delay it again..."

It makes perfect sense... if you assume Musk is really a super-villain.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cro-magnon gramps on 09/01/2016 07:53 pm
As I said on Twitter, I'm not expecting this to alter the BFR/BFS and Mars architecture announcement itself, though if there is a Q/A then I expect there may be a few questions, depending at what point in the investigation of this event SpaceX has reached
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 09/01/2016 08:29 pm
As I said on Twitter, I'm not expecting this to alter the BFR/BFS and Mars architecture announcement itself, though if there is a Q/A then I expect there may be a few questions, depending at what point in the investigation of this event SpaceX has reached

It might be best assuming he has definitive information that he does a presser days before IAC where he addresses such questions.  Keeps his IAC talk focused. 

I'm hoping for a rapid and accurate fault tree resolution.

Back to IAC topic.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: DJPledger on 09/02/2016 08:06 am
Hopefully EM will still announce BFR/MCT at IAC but there is a chance he could dumb down the talk or even postpone it for another event sometime after RTF.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ludus on 09/04/2016 02:14 pm
As much as we'd like to see it anyway it really isn't the optimal time for announcing a hyper ambitious new project like BFR/MCT. Canceling the presentation because he has to work on RTF makes sense and is an obvious priority. Next years conference may be much more appropriate.

No purpose is served by making this sort of presentation with bad timing. It could end up doing harm if it's interpreted as overreach and a desperate attempt to distract from other business problems.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/04/2016 02:27 pm
He could still do the talk but it might be the more Generic "why we must become a multi-planet species talk"

Disappointing but I'm trying to manage my own expectations. :(
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: the_other_Doug on 09/04/2016 03:02 pm
As much as we'd like to see it anyway it really isn't the optimal time for announcing a hyper ambitious new project like BFR/MCT. Canceling the presentation because he has to work on RTF makes sense and is an obvious priority. Next years conference may be much more appropriate.

No purpose is served by making this sort of presentation with bad timing. It could end up doing harm if it's interpreted as overreach and a desperate attempt to distract from other business problems.

If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

At some point, you either stand up, describe and completely commit to your vision, or you abandon it.  And actually, what better way to try and lift your public image out of a great, flaming hole it has suddenly stumbled into?

Canceling this presentation is tantamount to saying "every stubbed toe on the path to our vision runs the risk of us just dropping it entirely."

Kennedy did not announce the Moon decision while in a comfortable, leading position in world public opinion.  He announced it from a position of adversity, with not a little portion of defiance in his message -- defiance of the bad luck, bad timing and poor commitment to a goal that led us to the position we were in at that time.

Folding up your tent and going home when life happens and you stumble over roadblocks is not how you get people to buy in to your vision.  Meeting and overcoming adversity is how humans achieve great things.  Meeting adversity and saying "maybe this is too hard, we shouldn't even try it" is how most human beings fail.

So, I don't see SpaceX pulling back from their reveal at this point.

And, on a totally human level, I can't imagine Elon Musk will get a good night's sleep again for the rest of his life if he pulls back from his vision -- every 3 am he'll pop out of bed with the realization that, by abandoning his vision, he let down his company, his nation, and quite possibly the entire human species...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Eerie on 09/04/2016 03:14 pm
If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

Oh wow. Such a prime example of "doom and gloom" post. I'm impressed.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 09/04/2016 05:25 pm
If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

Oh wow. Such a prime example of "doom and gloom" post. I'm impressed.
I didn't see it that way, I saw it as a prediction that the presentation would go on anyway.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: xanmarus on 09/04/2016 05:38 pm
Oh wow. Such a prime example of "doom and gloom" post. I'm impressed.
More like child who don't get that shiny toy.

SpaceX can't pull their Mars plans alone, so they need good PR. Announcement should be delayed for better time, it's not big deal since work on BFR/MCT will continue anyway.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/04/2016 06:34 pm
SpaceX lost their opening flights and were one failure away from running out of money (Elon's words). They got over the hump, started to make it work and were in a very strong position to cope with CRS-7. There is simply ZERO chance Amos-6 will "cancel" the Mars roadmap plan.

I personally don't think it will stop Elon's speech unless they have a serious struggle with root cause and even then I think he'll still do it. Personally I think they'll have root cause and already be implementing remedy and recovery to get back into action by the end of this month and then schedule when the next launch will be.

But one can qualify it by how he conducts himself in "public". Tesla had a few incidents (that the mass media made a big deal out of - mostly unfairly too) and he didn't hide away. He instead pushed his masterplan.

If anything, Amos-6 might be more of a push to say "ok, that one was bad, but we'll recover and push on, and THIS is why, this is what we're aiming for...."

That at least covers the colonization speech, although we want the BFR/MCT stuff here. I think a Senator from Alabama is more of a threat to keeping that out of the speech than Amos-6 ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Space Ghost 1962 on 09/04/2016 07:09 pm
Chris,

You make the best argument for what I've seen of "Musk derangement syndrome". So they screw up, why do people have to imagine things come crashing down.

SX is just starting to get interesting.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: the_other_Doug on 09/04/2016 07:26 pm
If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

Oh wow. Such a prime example of "doom and gloom" post. I'm impressed.
I didn't see it that way, I saw it as a prediction that the presentation would go on anyway.

Exactly.  I truly don't think Elon Musk will announce "OK, it just got too hard, forget it for now."

It is my hope and my desire that Musk knows how to make this awful event work to advance his vision, and not to derail it.  If nothing else, he has shown a genius for doing that kind of thing in the past.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cro-magnon gramps on 09/04/2016 10:22 pm
If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

Oh wow. Such a prime example of "doom and gloom" post. I'm impressed.
I didn't see it that way, I saw it as a prediction that the presentation would go on anyway.

I get the feeling from Doug that Elon has to pull off a combination, Battle of Britain Speech, and We will do the Hard Things... and I quite agree... no pressure Elon...

edit: a little bit of MLKjr I have a dream!! :D

Gramps
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: the_other_Doug on 09/04/2016 10:43 pm
If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

Oh wow. Such a prime example of "doom and gloom" post. I'm impressed.
I didn't see it that way, I saw it as a prediction that the presentation would go on anyway.

I get the feeling from Doug that Elon has to pull off a combination, Battle of Britain Speech, and We will do the Hard Things... and I quite agree... no pressure Elon...

edit: a little bit of MLKjr I have a dream!! :D

Gramps

Absolutely right!

And you're also right -- no pressure at all, Elon.  No pressure at all...  ::)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ludus on 09/05/2016 03:44 pm
As much as we'd like to see it anyway it really isn't the optimal time for announcing a hyper ambitious new project like BFR/MCT. Canceling the presentation because he has to work on RTF makes sense and is an obvious priority. Next years conference may be much more appropriate.

No purpose is served by making this sort of presentation with bad timing. It could end up doing harm if it's interpreted as overreach and a desperate attempt to distract from other business problems.

If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

At some point, you either stand up, describe and completely commit to your vision, or you abandon it.  And actually, what better way to try and lift your public image out of a great, flaming hole it has suddenly stumbled into?

Canceling this presentation is tantamount to saying "every stubbed toe on the path to our vision runs the risk of us just dropping it entirely."

Kennedy did not announce the Moon decision while in a comfortable, leading position in world public opinion.  He announced it from a position of adversity, with not a little portion of defiance in his message -- defiance of the bad luck, bad timing and poor commitment to a goal that led us to the position we were in at that time.

Folding up your tent and going home when life happens and you stumble over roadblocks is not how you get people to buy in to your vision.  Meeting and overcoming adversity is how humans achieve great things.  Meeting adversity and saying "maybe this is too hard, we shouldn't even try it" is how most human beings fail.

So, I don't see SpaceX pulling back from their reveal at this point.

And, on a totally human level, I can't imagine Elon Musk will get a good night's sleep again for the rest of his life if he pulls back from his vision -- every 3 am he'll pop out of bed with the realization that, by abandoning his vision, he let down his company, his nation, and quite possibly the entire human species...

The presentation and public announcement isn't the project or the vision. It's not like they aren't already doing this. Unlike NASA they can go ahead and develop a new rocket engine and do anything else they want without explaining it to Congress or the public and they have been.

To us Elon canceling a speech at an obscure conference in Mexico is a huge disappointment. To the public in general it's nothing at all. It does matter quite a bit what the status of the investigation and RTF is at the time though. If issues aren't resolved it would seem very odd in the middle of a corporate crisis where all normal operations are still in limbo to announce vast new ambitions. It would seem more over the top and desperate than bold. To most people BFR/MCT isn't a long anticipated reveal that he'd be retreating from, it's something totally out of the blue.

In the past Elon has confronted challenges very directly and seriously and I'd expect that in dealing with the anomaly and RTF. The decision about the presentation is about timing and PR, not the project itself.

When Kennedy made his speech announcing the Apollo program it was in September of 1962 after a string of successful Mercury missions including matching the Soviet orbital launches.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: RonM on 09/05/2016 03:58 pm
SpaceX is a big corporation with thousands of employees. They can do an investigation, make changes if necessary, rebuild the pad, work on new projects, etc. all at the same time. Even if they cancel the presentation for PR reasons, and I don't think they will, work on their Mars architecture will continue.

SpaceX needs to let governments and industry in on their Mars plans because it will be easier to have partners than going it alone. IAC is the best place for the announcement. We'll hear what Elon has to say in about three weeks.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Space Ghost 1962 on 09/05/2016 04:50 pm
Stay focused on the timing of his upcoming reveal. That says all about this.

Suggest that the power of SX's attempt at LV/SC innovation is agile genY's/millennials. They are at once capable/forceful/inspirable/cynical/despairing/uncontrollable. Musk rides this chimerical force, directing (we hope) their desires (not just his).

For him to say what he means, and mean what he says, SX must go to Mars. FH/RD allow him to start the process, as soon as 2018. But it would be an empty gesture with these alone, unless it had something to build to. A vision (suggest that its the reveal) and a credible step along the path (Raptor full scale on a test stand) nails your colors to the mast.

The hill you will live or die on.

That's not to say totally messing up on your business to getting there, because you lost your customer's SC because you not only did not control/handle a static test such that you detected/safed the vehicle before losing it, you also in your arrogance lost the customer's vehicle as well, doesn't make an impact. For a proud company that considers itself capable of something governments haven't dared, its a big hit close to a year from another big hit.

SX is now equally capable of both great accomplishment as well as disaster. Clearly just as much as reaching for more accomplishment, they must make a still larger effort to avoid disaster.

So in Musk's talk, the reveal is not just about the goal/means, but a clear eyed recognition of the necessary struggle to reduce the risk even more than a nation's prior lunar landing success struggled with, as well.

add:
On the tawdry side, some have alluded to a distracted Musk, mooning over an recently available Amber Heard (who doesn't like him in the least), hasn't helped SX/Tesla any this summer (oh, Hollywood) ... focus ... focus ... focus ... ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: llanitedave on 09/05/2016 08:17 pm
Precisely.  I read a lot of how SpaceX underpays/overworks it's employees, and the only reason they have a line of applicants halfway to the Moon is because their vision inspires young people who want to work for them in spite of the less than ideal benefits.  If this is true, then the Mars vision IS one of the benefits of working for SpaceX, and for Elon to back away from that vision could be taken by thousands of employees as a personal betrayal of their own hard work and sacrifices.

In many ways, Musk is now as much a slave to the Mars ambitions as he is a driver for them. He has no choice, if he wants SpaceX to continue to succeed and progress.  His workers will hold his feet to the fire and demand that he push forward. 

The speech will go on -- Churchill, Kennedy and King.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/06/2016 01:05 am
Of course, the Mars vision is also the only reason SpaceX was founded, so there's no problem with SpaceX being tied to it from Musk's perspective. In fact, if it ever became equally yoked with some other goal, it'd put the Mars vision in jeopardy, so you can think of everything SpaceX does as either directly contributing to Mars or as a way to build the resources necessary to do Mars.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: ChrisWilson68 on 09/06/2016 01:30 am
If SpaceX cancels this presentation, I'm pretty certain it will be for good.

Doug, I agree with a lot of what you post, but this time I have to disagree 100%.  I don't know if the presentation will be cancelled or scaled back, but we can all be very certain that if the presentation is cancelled now, it will not be for good.  If it doesn't happen now, it will be because Musk is choosing a better time for it.

Musk has already waited a very long time to do this presentation.  They've been working on this Mars plan for years.  He was going to do the presentation now because the timing was good.  They had a lot of momentum.  They've been recovering stage after stage, they had a series of successful missions for clients, and commercial crew was coming along.  They had put CRS-7 well behind them.

Now, the situation has unexpectedly changed.  There would be nothing wrong with Musk deciding to delay the big announcement until they had put this latest issue to rest and returned to flight.  Nothing wrong with that at all.

This announcement is all about publicity, and timing matters for publicity.  Musk has been patient.  SpaceX will bounce back from this.  There will be a better time for it.

Like I said, I have no idea whether they will delay the big reveal or not.  But I'm quite certain that if they do cancel giving the big presentation now, it's not for good.  The timing is bad right now.  Later it will be better.  SpaceX is in no hurry, and there's no way in which waiting a few months or a year to announce the details of their Mars architecture will have any negative effect.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/06/2016 09:10 am
I'm not sure what MusK will do and I'm not a PR expert.

But you can argue that now is either a good, or a bad time to make the announcement depending on your perspective.

Who was this announcement intended for?

Musks Ego?
SpaceX Workers?
NSF members?
Industry?
Governments?
SpaceX shareholders?
The public?

The only fickle group in there is The Public. The only important group in there is SpaceX's investors. The rest will shrug off the Amos failure with the reassurance that SpaceX will learn and have a better rocket / launch facility/ procedures after this.

If the BFR/MCT Mars architecture big announcement was intended for the first part of this list it will probably go ahead. if it was intended for the wider Public it may still go ahead. If it's PR you want? In the words of a fellow Irish man:

Quote from: Oscar Wilde
There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: meekGee on 09/06/2016 11:51 am
I read Tod's post as "Musk shouldn't let this accident affect longer range plans or this presentation".

And I agree.

This is not the last failure.

Looking forward to IAC.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Jdeshetler on 09/06/2016 01:48 pm
Who was this announcement intended for?

Musks Ego?
SpaceX Workers?
NSF members?
Industry?
Governments?
SpaceX shareholders?
The public?

The Humanity
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: meekGee on 09/06/2016 02:16 pm
I'm not sure what MusK will do and I'm not a PR expert.

But you can argue that now is either a good, or a bad time to make the announcement depending on your perspective.

Who was this announcement intended for?

Musks Ego?
SpaceX Workers?
NSF members?
Industry?
Governments?
SpaceX shareholders?
The public?

The only fickle group in there is The Public. The only important group in there is SpaceX's investors. The rest will shrug off the Amos failure with the reassurance that SpaceX will learn and have a better rocket / launch facility/ procedures after this.

If the BFR/MCT Mars architecture big announcement was intended for the first part of this list it will probably go ahead. if it was intended for the wider Public it may still go ahead. If it's PR you want? In the words of a fellow Irish man:

Quote from: Oscar Wilde
There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

I think the most important audience is industry.  Large players who are potential partners, beyond the immediate sphere that I'm sure is already involved to some degree.

For example, IF Musk is considering nuclear power, I am sure the relevant partners are already working with SpaceX.

But how about CAT or Volvo for heavy equipment?  Too soon?  Too late?  Just right?  What about Alcoa?  Saint-Gobain?  Dow chemicals?  Dupont?

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ludus on 09/06/2016 03:03 pm
The conference is in about 3 weeks. If the RTF issues are resolved by then with the cause understood and not an impediment to the regular launch schedule but from 39a, then making the presentation would fit with the stance of bold optimism. If it's not resolved at that time and the future of launch operations is an unknown it gives a different impression.

There's no reason investors, relevant people in government and industry or employees wouldn't already know most of the details of the presentation. NSF is pretty confident about most of them. There could be more off the record leaks for interested people and it wouldn't matter. This is about a formal public commitment.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: bstrong on 09/06/2016 04:06 pm
Who was this announcement intended for?

My theory has been that they are about to start a public search for a BFR launch site, and that means that a) they will have to share at least some details about the launch system, and b) they will want to get the public excited enough that state/local governments will roll out the red carpet for them.

Announcing the largest rocket ever built right built right after a fiery pad failure is probably not the best strategy to get local governments excited about hosting your launch site, IMO. On the other hand, the clock is ticking for selecting a launch site if they are to have any hope of meeting Elon's timeline, and it will probably be a while before they regain the aura of success they had a couple of weeks ago, so maybe he'll just go ahead anyway.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: envy887 on 09/06/2016 04:40 pm
Everyone knows a fiery pad failure is possible with rockets. Anywhere that's a showstopper was never going to be viable as a launch site. And regular launch noise is a bigger issue.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: ChrisWilson68 on 09/06/2016 04:46 pm
Everyone knows a fiery pad failure is possible with rockets. Anywhere that's a showstopper was never going to be viable as a launch site. And regular launch noise is a bigger issue.

That's not the way human brains tend to work.  They're not computers, logically analyzing all data.  People are influenced by what has happened recently.  Timing matters.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: the_other_Doug on 09/06/2016 05:38 pm
What I was looking at when I said that canceling this presentation would be tantamount to killing SpaceX's Mars plans is based on what I was perceiving as the reason for this presentation in the first place.

That is that SpaceX was announcing its Mars architecture as the beginning of its push to get all of the partners it will need to pull off an actual colonization effort involved in the process.  The main message will be, if I'm not mistaken, "Hey everyone, not only are we talking about going to Mars, here is how we can do it, and here is how we will do it.  And now, here is what we need from all of you to make this toehold into the seed of a true multi-planetary civilization."

If SpaceX pulls back from this kind of presentation because of an accident that puts them back a few months in their current operations, the PR value of the cancellation is, well -- horrible.  It states "Well, we were going to tell you how we think we can go to Mars, but heck, we just had a rocket blow up, so we're not so sure any more.  We'll just wait and see how we feel about it once we get past the short-term concerns of keeping up with our current manifest."

This is a PR statement that SpaceX, right now, only exists to fly their current manifest and to keep adding customers and business.  It denies what many people here have properly noted -- that SpaceX wasn't started to fly a commercial manifest, it was started to place a colony seed on Mars.

It says getting back to launching comsats is far more important right now than exploring the vision that was the reason the company was founded.  It says we're putting the vision on the back-burner while we deal with a hiccup (no matter how flagrant) in the engineering.

It says that, even after the kind of presentation that was planned prior to the pad incident, any setback will cause us to pull away from the vision, at least for a while.

It says "Maybe you should not think about partnering with us for a while, until we figure out our problems."

Once you establish that kind of position, you lose a majority of the people you need to get buy-in from if you're going to make your vision become reality.  You lose their desire to buy in, because it makes it look like you suddenly don't believe in your vision any more.  Regardless of how much work continues in the background towards Red Dragon, BFR/BFS, etc., without revealing what they will be, when they will be built, where they will be launched from, etc., you just don't have anything for people to buy into.

And besides, this is the time in the SpaceX timeline to Mars when the big push for public and private partners has to begin, if it's going to succeed.  The Ron Howard miniseries "Mars" seems to be a well-placed, if not contracted-for, piece of the puzzle that is a welcome part of a larger plan to achieve the support needed to achieve the vision, as well.  Does anyone think Elon Musk should go to Ron Howard and suggest maybe it would be better to postpone the miniseries project until next year?  I don't think so.

Finally, to my mind, it is a far more stirring and courageous thing to announce great plans amidst the ashes of adversity.  It makes people believe that you are certain of your vision, and that you are determined to work through the inevitable roadblocks to achieve it.

This accident is not a reason to cancel the SpaceX presentation about their Mars plans -- it is a very good reason to push on.  It will be more stirring, more convincing, and get more buy-in, if SpaceX shows a determination to achieve their vision even through adversity, than it will if they delay.

At least, that's how I see it.  I hope that's how SpaceX ends up seeing it, as well.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Hauerg on 09/06/2016 06:05 pm
Yes, like in F1, when you crash during qualifying on Saturday: You rebuild the car during the night, maybe on Sunday you have to start from the last row on the grid or even from pit lane. But now you bring a new storyline to the race.
(Of course it's better not to crash again come race day.)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mikelepage on 09/07/2016 05:55 am
It <delaying> says getting back to launching comsats is far more important right now than exploring the vision that was the reason the company was founded.  It says we're putting the vision on the back-burner while we deal with a hiccup (no matter how flagrant) in the engineering.

It says that, even after the kind of presentation that was planned prior to the pad incident, any setback will cause us to pull away from the vision, at least for a while.

It says "Maybe you should not think about partnering with us for a while, until we figure out our problems."

This: I absolutely agree.  With one caveat.

SpaceX are the first to attempt true reusability for orbital class boosters, therefore, they would be the first to discover any problems that meant rockets become much less safe with each reuse, in a way that was unanticipated, like say, that repeated cryo cycles causing loss-of-mission faults from the COPVs.  Maybe they need to do a complete redesign, with an entirely new cryo-tolerant composite material that doesn't exist yet...

We know reusability is an absolute requirement for the Mars plan, so if it turns out that "success is not one of the possible outcomes" with the current rocket design rationale, it would be foolhardy to push ahead until they know they have the ability to solve the problem.

EDIT: in any case, I'm sure it will depend on the RTF investigation on the day Elon is to give the speech.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/07/2016 06:07 am
My hope, and expectation, is the presentation goes on. I will be at the IAC regardless. What I see and learn you will too.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 09/08/2016 04:01 pm
For those interested in the trailer for the "Mars" miniseries. http://www.popsci.com/watch-trailer-for-ron-howards-mars (http://www.popsci.com/watch-trailer-for-ron-howards-mars)

Did the trailer show a BFS landing on Mars? And did SpaceX provide the basic info for the vehicle animations and internal constructs?

If the big reveal does not happen soon it will happen by itself without SpaceX doing an announcement because the info packet will exist and such info will be difficult to keep it from leaking out.

Musk needs to do the reveal as scheduled otherwise it will seep out the SpaceX pours anyway. The employees are holding it in for now but after IAC a flood of info is likely to come out from multiple sources.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: rakaydos on 09/08/2016 04:55 pm
If that is a BFS spoiler, we're looking at 4-5 landing engines, with twice as many available for liftoff.

Not much of a heatshield for aerobreaking, though. Are they relying on thrust assisted drag? According to a paper I saw osted, they really need outward angled engines for that to gain more drag then they lose to aerospike-like drag reduction.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 09/08/2016 06:54 pm
For further discussion and for what has been discussed before about the linkages to Musk's plans in the Mars miniseries see this thread http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40823.msg1564882#msg1564882 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40823.msg1564882#msg1564882)

The key for this thread is that the "Big Reveal" should occur before the miniseries release so that the miniseries is compared to Musk's reveal and not Musk's plans compared to the miniseries.

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: launchwatcher on 09/08/2016 07:19 pm
For those interested in the trailer for the "Mars" miniseries. http://www.popsci.com/watch-trailer-for-ron-howards-mars (http://www.popsci.com/watch-trailer-for-ron-howards-mars)

Did the trailer show a BFS landing on Mars? And did SpaceX provide the basic info for the vehicle animations and internal constructs?
Hmm.   The engines look "wrong" - proportioned more like a nuclear-thermal rocket (NERVA, etc.) than a conventional rocket engine.

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/09/2016 02:07 am
For those interested in the trailer for the "Mars" miniseries. http://www.popsci.com/watch-trailer-for-ron-howards-mars (http://www.popsci.com/watch-trailer-for-ron-howards-mars)

Did the trailer show a BFS landing on Mars? And did SpaceX provide the basic info for the vehicle animations and internal constructs?
Hmm.   The engines look "wrong" - proportioned more like a nuclear-thermal rocket (NERVA, etc.) than a conventional rocket engine.
Looks like someone put a Kerbal rocket (in sandbox mode so you can afford a bunch of silly NERVAs like that, though they'd probably overheat and asplode so close together) through a much better rendering program. :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: zodiacchris on 09/09/2016 02:17 am
Guys, you are sooo off-topic, go to MCT discussion! :o
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/10/2016 04:27 am
Quote
[email protected] just confirmed with me that @elonmusk's Mars Colony talk is "still on the agenda" for @IAC2016 in Guadalajara. September 27th.

https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816 (https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 09/10/2016 04:41 pm
Thanks for the update.

So it looks like the SpaceX Mars Campaign will continue without any slowdown. This suggests that it has its own personnel dedicated to the tasks that are for only the elements of the campaign. Also it would have hard target dates for accomplishments, budgets and funds.

The reason I call it the SpaceX Mars Campaign is that incorporates many missions [different LVs including LV developments and different Mars landers RD and MCT], [payload developments mainly ISRU but also high power ground power systems], and other items such as deep space HSF.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/10/2016 06:23 pm
Everytime there's a major incident, it will slow down SpaceX's Mars ambitions. It just won't stop it is all (unless a series of back-to-back incidents... several).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 09/10/2016 08:39 pm
Everytime there's a major incident, it will slow down SpaceX's Mars ambitions. It just won't stop it is all (unless a series of back-to-back incidents... several).
Subtle phrase usage:

ambition - A particular goal or aim.

campaign - Complete, planned course of action formulated to achieve defined objectives.

First it was just a goal now it is the pursuit of the actions to achieve the goal. It use to be an ambition it is now a campaign. Both can be used but refer to different items.
Ambitions (goals).
Campaign (the actions to achieve the ambitions).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/10/2016 10:20 pm
Quote
[email protected] just confirmed with me that @elonmusk's Mars Colony talk is "still on the agenda" for @IAC2016 in Guadalajara. September 27th.

https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816 (https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816)

Told ya. What do I win?

(Phew, was more in hope ;D)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 09/11/2016 12:18 am
Quote
[email protected] just confirmed with me that @elonmusk's Mars Colony talk is "still on the agenda" for @IAC2016 in Guadalajara. September 27th.

https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816 (https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816)

Told ya. What do I win?

(Phew, was more in hope ;D)
Winner! You get to write an article about it when it happens.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: clongton on 09/11/2016 11:40 am
Everytime there's a major incident, it will slow down SpaceX's Mars ambitions. It just won't stop it is all (unless a series of back-to-back incidents... several).

Respectfully disagree. Without knowing a root cause for the incident they won't know what to slow up on so they won't. Once a root cause is identified then any similar or related aspects of the Mars Campaign will slow up in order to incorporate required changes. Until then they will continue what they are doing at the same pace. That is the way *all* industry works.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: vapour_nudge on 09/11/2016 11:50 am
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 09/11/2016 12:36 pm
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement

...he's 45.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: spacenut on 09/11/2016 12:41 pm
An awful lot can happen in 20 years.  We went to the moon in about 7-8 years after Kennedy's speech and commitment.  It is no different than the Apollo-Saturn V program, just a little bigger. 
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Darkseraph on 09/11/2016 01:24 pm
Everytime there's a major incident, it will slow down SpaceX's Mars ambitions. It just won't stop it is all (unless a series of back-to-back incidents... several).

Respectfully disagree. Without knowing a root cause for the incident they won't know what to slow up on so they won't. Once a root cause is identified then any similar or related aspects of the Mars Campaign will slow up in order to incorporate required changes. Until then they will continue what they are doing at the same pace. That is the way *all* industry works.


SpaceX have limited resources for all their activities, including Mars plans. Accidents like the most recent have to hurt their finances by diverting capital, personelle and money towards investigations, rebuilding infrastructure and plants not running at full production. Also, delays in delivering payloads for their customers can't be great for their revenue stream and prospective customers may turn to competitors. Definetly a smaller pie to work from.

It is hard quantify yet how big an effect this will have on their Mars plans,  but it is even harder to imagine the effect of these accidents on future plans is zero! All will be revealed in the coming months after investigation and I hope the effect is minimal. I'm looking forward to the Red Dragon mission.





Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: GORDAP on 09/11/2016 01:28 pm
Quote
[email protected] just confirmed with me that @elonmusk's Mars Colony talk is "still on the agenda" for @IAC2016 in Guadalajara. September 27th.

https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816 (https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816)

Told ya. What do I win?

(Phew, was more in hope ;D)

I think you should get a lifetime subscription to L2! 

You should have a chat with the Powers That Be to set that in motion.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: woods170 on 09/11/2016 01:45 pm
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement
You forgot the winking smiley...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/11/2016 01:53 pm
Quote
[email protected] just confirmed with me that @elonmusk's Mars Colony talk is "still on the agenda" for @IAC2016 in Guadalajara. September 27th.

https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816 (https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/774295450895650816)

Told ya. What do I win?

(Phew, was more in hope ;D)
While I don't want to pour cold water on this, but it actually says: the talk is "still on the agenda" which is technically correct. The "agenda" or IAC program hasn't changed. What it doesn't say or confirm is that Musk is still going to do the big reveal as intended or as we originally expected. But it's better than the big reveal being confirmed as cancelled or postponed.

I hope he is still coming to do the presentation in person and I hope he is still going to do the big reveal as expected. But we just won't know until the actual presentation starts on the 27th, everything else is just speculation unless he confirms it himself.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 09/11/2016 02:15 pm
Without the speech/presentation that was prepared/in preparation before the incident we will not know if the presentation given is less than what was originally planned. The presentation itself will not tell us the extent of the original reveal intent.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/11/2016 02:30 pm
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement
I bet SpaceX sends the largest landed mass ever to the surface of Mars by the end of 2022. I'll bet you beverage of your choice, value not to exceed $10. Must be redeemed in person.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/11/2016 03:10 pm
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement
I bet SpaceX sends the largest landed mass ever to the surface of Mars by the end of 2022. I'll bet you beverage of your choice, value not to exceed $10. Must be redeemed in person.

I fully expect this thread to be bumped by Robotbeat raising a cold glass of something in 2022.

#JourneyToNudgePurchasedBeverage
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 09/11/2016 03:36 pm
Surely by now there is an abstract of Elon's presentation.  Has anyone found it?

Just found abstracts were due 2/29 and manuscripts were due on 9/8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Pipcard on 09/11/2016 09:56 pm
An awful lot can happen in 20 years.  We went to the moon in about 7-8 years after Kennedy's speech and commitment.  It is no different than the Apollo-Saturn V program, just a little bigger.
A "little" bigger? We're talking about sending humans on a mission two years without resupply. All the research and development for ISRU that works on Mars (including automated systems that process fuel before the crew arrives, unless you want to risk the crew being stranded), long duration life support, reusable interplanetary spacecraft that have to aerocapture/aerobrake and possibly land on two different planets, etc. is a tall order. It's not like a week-long "flags and footprints" mission to the Moon.

I don't believe it's impossible. But it's going to be a major challenge.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: vapour_nudge on 09/11/2016 10:06 pm
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement

...he's 45.

Thank you for reinforcing my point Ancient-U. And.....
Here's the smiley 😉
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: vapour_nudge on 09/11/2016 10:49 pm
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement
I bet SpaceX sends the largest landed mass ever to the surface of Mars by the end of 2022. I'll bet you beverage of your choice, value not to exceed $10. Must be redeemed in person.

I fully expect this thread to be bumped by Robotbeat raising a cold glass of something in 2022.

#JourneyToNudgePurchasedBeverage
Come all the way to Aus? I'd buy you a drink win or lose just for making the effort
Anyways, looking forward to seeing the presentation nonetheless (on the Sci Fi channel) 😉
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 09/12/2016 02:08 pm
Hopefully, todays Blue Origin's email revealing new details on the New Glenn LV will give additional incentive to Elon to reveal more about the BFR.  New Glenn is much larger than I for one was expecting!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/12/2016 03:18 pm
Hopefully, todays Blue Origin's email revealing new details on the New Glenn LV will give additional incentive to Elon to reveal more about the BFR.  New Glenn is much larger than I for one was expecting!
I expected a vehicle that big from Blue Origin, but expected them to first try orbit with a smaller one.

Good warm up act to MCT!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 09/12/2016 05:24 pm
Given that the other world dominating multi-billionaire genius Bezos just unveiled his New Glenn development plans for this decade that outstrip the yet to fly FH, I'm confident Elon is more motivated than ever to let 'er rip with his Mars architecture. Should be epic.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/12/2016 05:32 pm
Given that the other world dominating multi-billionaire genius Bezos just unveiled his New Glenn development plans for this decade that outstrip the yet to fly FH, I'm confident Elon is more motivated than ever to let 'er rip with his Mars architecture. Should be epic.
I don't think New Glenn is higher LEO payload than Falcon Heavy. SpaceX has better mass fraction than Blue Origin and kerolox has better density. Falcon Heavy has 5.1mlbf of thrust while New Glenn has just 3.85.

From what I can tell, New Glenn and Falcon Heavy look to have roughly the same mass to orbit in spite of New Glenn using hydrogen for the upper stage.

However, New Glenn may well be more operationally efficient than Falcon Heavy (which is already undergoing testing).

But yeah, I definitely think Elon won't take this lying down. And I do think Bezos took the upcoming MCT announcement into account when thinking about the timing of this announcement.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cscott on 09/12/2016 05:41 pm
Yeah, my initial impression was "that sure is a fluffy rocket", not "that's a rocket capable of a huge payload".

"Fluffy" used in the technical sense of volume of propellant required per unit thrust, of course.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Vultur on 09/13/2016 03:54 am
An awful lot can happen in 20 years.  We went to the moon in about 7-8 years after Kennedy's speech and commitment.  It is no different than the Apollo-Saturn V program, just a little bigger.
A "little" bigger?

Maybe smaller, in terms of unknowns, considering where we actually were when Kennedy made that speech...

Quote
We're talking about sending humans on a mission two years without resupply.

Resupply isn't needed if you just bring enough supplies from the beginning - MCT will be huge and early flights won't have that many people.

Quote
All the research and development for ISRU that works on Mars (including automated systems that process fuel before the crew arrives, unless you want to risk the crew being stranded),

Eh, SpaceX will probably do it that way, but crew-first is entirely viable. MCT's big enough they could bring supplies for multiple synods so later missions could bring stuff if the first failed.

Quote
reusable interplanetary spacecraft that have to aerocapture/aerobrake and possibly land on two different planets, etc.

Yeah, that's definitely the hard part. But I'd argue the technology to do it is probably better understood now than Apollo's technology was in 1962.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Space Opera on 09/14/2016 11:21 am
Quote
Shotwell "announcement of the use of raptor engine the late September (IACMexico) possibly delayed"

https://twitter.com/maximeputeaux/status/775716863292702720  :-[
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 09/14/2016 12:55 pm
Ambiguous, but I interpret it to say that at IAC there may be no announcement that a Raptor engine has been test fired.  Bummer for us fans but rational folks don't rush something technically challenging just for max PR.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: guckyfan on 09/14/2016 02:12 pm
Ambiguous, but I interpret it to say that at IAC there may be no announcement that a Raptor engine has been test fired.  Bummer for us fans but rational folks don't rush something technically challenging just for max PR.

That's what it sounds to me too. But I am an optimist.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: JamesH65 on 09/14/2016 02:50 pm
Ambiguous, but I interpret it to say that at IAC there may be no announcement that a Raptor engine has been test fired.  Bummer for us fans but rational folks don't rush something technically challenging just for max PR.

That's what it sounds to me too. But I am an optimist.

I to am an optimist, but to me is sounds like the announcement of what the Raptor will be used for is being delayed.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cscott on 09/14/2016 03:23 pm
I think there's a language issue here and a game of telephone.  I wouldn't read too much into it either way.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 09/14/2016 04:44 pm
I bet SpaceX sends the largest landed mass ever to the surface of Mars by the end of 2022. I'll bet you beverage of your choice, value not to exceed $10. Must be redeemed in person.

I fully expect this thread to be bumped by Robotbeat raising a cold glass of something in 2022.

#JourneyToNudgePurchasedBeverage

Pessimist!  ... 2022 or sooner :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 09/14/2016 06:05 pm
Ambiguous, but I interpret it to say that at IAC there may be no announcement that a Raptor engine has been test fired.  Bummer for us fans but rational folks don't rush something technically challenging just for max PR.

That's what it sounds to me too. But I am an optimist.

I to am an optimist, but to me is sounds like the announcement of what the Raptor will be used for is being delayed.

Given NASA Admin Bolden's recent comments that he's not a big fan of commercial folks developing big rockets, could Musk be under heavy pressure from major customer NASA and other needed government entities to cool his jets @ IAC or drop any details on BFR description whatsoever?

I suppose he could just simply wax eloquent about the necessity to develop Mars bases leading to colonies for a good hour and leave the transportation "details" for a to be announced later.  I certainly hope not.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Robotbeat on 09/15/2016 01:40 am
Ambiguous, but I interpret it to say that at IAC there may be no announcement that a Raptor engine has been test fired.  Bummer for us fans but rational folks don't rush something technically challenging just for max PR.

That's what it sounds to me too. But I am an optimist.

I to am an optimist, but to me is sounds like the announcement of what the Raptor will be used for is being delayed.

Given NASA Admin Bolden's recent comments that he's not a big fan of commercial folks developing big rockets, could Musk be under heavy pressure from major customer NASA and other needed government entities to cool his jets @ IAC or drop any details on BFR description whatsoever?
..
No.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: JamesH65 on 09/15/2016 07:48 am
Ambiguous, but I interpret it to say that at IAC there may be no announcement that a Raptor engine has been test fired.  Bummer for us fans but rational folks don't rush something technically challenging just for max PR.

That's what it sounds to me too. But I am an optimist.

I to am an optimist, but to me is sounds like the announcement of what the Raptor will be used for is being delayed.

Given NASA Admin Bolden's recent comments that he's not a big fan of commercial folks developing big rockets, could Musk be under heavy pressure from major customer NASA and other needed government entities to cool his jets @ IAC or drop any details on BFR description whatsoever?

I suppose he could just simply wax eloquent about the necessity to develop Mars bases leading to colonies for a good hour and leave the transportation "details" for a to be announced later.  I certainly hope not.

Not sure why they would do that. NASA don't have that much sway over SpaceX I wouldn't have thought. And why would they say it anyway, it's not like they are paying for it.

I think Bolden is wrong BTW, and this is just him politically trying to keep SLS and supporters happy.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/15/2016 04:25 pm
Quote from: IAC Said
A special Highlight Lecture on Mars Base Camp will take place on Wednesday, 28 September 2016 from 17:45 – 18:45 at the IAC 2016.

The lecture will present a detailed technical discussion of how to safely execute human exploration of Mars by leveraging the heavy lift capability of Space Launch System (SLS) and the deep space human rated capabilities of Orion. Additionally, will take place an in depth discussion of the significant science that can be accomplished from a human orbiting laboratory providing a global perspective and access to both Martian moons via an excursion system, including low-latency tele robotics; sample collection, analysis, and curation; and direct investigation of Deimos and Phobos and sample return.

The discussion, moderated by Wanda Sigur, Vice-President and General Manager, Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, will feature prominent speakers such as Dominic A. (Tony) Antonelli, Acting Director, Advanced Programs Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, and Rob Chambers, Space Systems Company Engineer, Lockheed Martin Corporation.
The Day after Musk's Talk. Should be interesting to compare!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cro-magnon gramps on 09/15/2016 06:14 pm
Quote from: IAC Said
A special Highlight Lecture on Mars Base Camp will take place on Wednesday, 28 September 2016 from 17:45 – 18:45 at the IAC 2016.

The lecture will present a detailed technical discussion of how to safely execute human exploration of Mars by leveraging the heavy lift capability of Space Launch System (SLS) and the deep space human rated capabilities of Orion. Additionally, will take place an in depth discussion of the significant science that can be accomplished from a human orbiting laboratory providing a global perspective and access to both Martian moons via an excursion system, including low-latency tele robotics; sample collection, analysis, and curation; and direct investigation of Deimos and Phobos and sample return.

The discussion, moderated by Wanda Sigur, Vice-President and General Manager, Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, will feature prominent speakers such as Dominic A. (Tony) Antonelli, Acting Director, Advanced Programs Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, and Rob Chambers, Space Systems Company Engineer, Lockheed Martin Corporation.
The Day after Musk's Talk. Should be interesting to compare!

I'm going to be interested in the reactions from the crowd and the media... not saying it is going to be bad comparison, just "interesting" ; NASA and SpaceX have different philosophies of how to get to the future  ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 09/15/2016 06:21 pm
Quote from: IAC Said
A special Highlight Lecture on Mars Base Camp will take place on Wednesday, 28 September 2016 from 17:45 – 18:45 at the IAC 2016.

The lecture will present a detailed technical discussion of how to safely execute human exploration of Mars by leveraging the heavy lift capability of Space Launch System (SLS) and the deep space human rated capabilities of Orion. Additionally, will take place an in depth discussion of the significant science that can be accomplished from a human orbiting laboratory providing a global perspective and access to both Martian moons via an excursion system, including low-latency tele robotics; sample collection, analysis, and curation; and direct investigation of Deimos and Phobos and sample return.

The discussion, moderated by Wanda Sigur, Vice-President and General Manager, Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, will feature prominent speakers such as Dominic A. (Tony) Antonelli, Acting Director, Advanced Programs Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, and Rob Chambers, Space Systems Company Engineer, Lockheed Martin Corporation.
The Day after Musk's Talk. Should be interesting to compare!

I'm going to be interested in the reactions from the crowd and the media... not saying it is going to be bad comparison, just "interesting" ; NASA and SpaceX have different philosophies of how to get to the future  ;D


Yes, but this is a LockMart dog and pony show, not a NASA one. Base Camp is one of their initiatives. Still, it will be interesting.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Zed_Noir on 09/15/2016 08:47 pm
Quote from: IAC Said
A special Highlight Lecture on Mars Base Camp will take place on Wednesday, 28 September 2016 from 17:45 – 18:45 at the IAC 2016.

The lecture will present a detailed technical discussion of how to safely execute human exploration of Mars by leveraging the heavy lift capability of Space Launch System (SLS) and the deep space human rated capabilities of Orion. Additionally, will take place an in depth discussion of the significant science that can be accomplished from a human orbiting laboratory providing a global perspective and access to both Martian moons via an excursion system, including low-latency tele robotics; sample collection, analysis, and curation; and direct investigation of Deimos and Phobos and sample return.

The discussion, moderated by Wanda Sigur, Vice-President and General Manager, Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, will feature prominent speakers such as Dominic A. (Tony) Antonelli, Acting Director, Advanced Programs Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, and Rob Chambers, Space Systems Company Engineer, Lockheed Martin Corporation.
The Day after Musk's Talk. Should be interesting to compare!
There is a FISO presentation on the "Mars base camp" from Lockheed Martin by Steve Jolly & Steve Bailey. Links to slides & audio follows.

Slide presentation link (http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Jolly-Bailey_7-27-16/invite_Jolly-Bailey.pdf)

audio presentation link (http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Jolly-Bailey_7-27-16/Jolly-Bailey.mp3)

Think the forthcoming lecture will be mostly base on the FISO presentation

My take on the "Mars base camp" concept is that you need about 11 SLS flights and big budget to developed the HAB, SEP, HydroLox propulsion modules along with man-rated EVA excursion systems to orbit the moons of Mars.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/15/2016 09:13 pm
Quote from: IAC Said
A special Highlight Lecture on Mars Base Camp will take place on Wednesday, 28 September 2016 from 17:45 – 18:45 at the IAC 2016.

The lecture will present a detailed technical discussion of how to safely execute human exploration of Mars by leveraging the heavy lift capability of Space Launch System (SLS) and the deep space human rated capabilities of Orion. Additionally, will take place an in depth discussion of the significant science that can be accomplished from a human orbiting laboratory providing a global perspective and access to both Martian moons via an excursion system, including low-latency tele robotics; sample collection, analysis, and curation; and direct investigation of Deimos and Phobos and sample return.

The discussion, moderated by Wanda Sigur, Vice-President and General Manager, Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, will feature prominent speakers such as Dominic A. (Tony) Antonelli, Acting Director, Advanced Programs Civil Space, Space Systems Company, Lockheed Martin Corporation, and Rob Chambers, Space Systems Company Engineer, Lockheed Martin Corporation.
The Day after Musk's Talk. Should be interesting to compare!

Which is also bang slap in our area of coverage, so we're going to be keeping Derrick rather busy! ;D

PS Wanda Sigur is an absolute legend! She literally dragged MAF from its knees during Shuttle RTF and all the ET guys say she was a rock star of a manager during that period.

I digress a bit, sorry mods ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: matthewkantar on 09/16/2016 07:34 pm
Sorry for the no value post, could someone help me out with the acronym FISO? Not found in the massive list here, and not obvious from google search.    Flight Information Service Officer?

Matthew
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/16/2016 07:35 pm
Sorry for the no value post, could someone help me out with the acronym FISO? Not found in the massive list here, and not obvious from google search.    Flight Information Service Officer?

Matthew

Future In-Space Operations

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: acsawdey on 09/17/2016 12:24 am
Quote
Turns out MCT can go well beyond Mars, so will need a new name…

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/776939304140414976 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/776939304140414976)

Sounds like maybe he's putting together his talk ...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: MATTBLAK on 09/17/2016 01:10 am
Is there an announced timeline for Elon Musk's presentation/announcement? And any live streaming possibilities?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mattstep on 09/17/2016 01:25 am
Quote
Turns out MCT can go well beyond Mars, so will need a new name…

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/776939304140414976 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/776939304140414976)

Sounds like maybe he's putting together his talk ...

And that it's going to have some details in it!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cro-magnon gramps on 09/17/2016 01:27 am
Is there an announced timeline for Elon Musk's presentation/announcement? And any live streaming possibilities?

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/4v5i78/its_t60_days_to_the_mars_architecture/

September 27th at 1:30 pm Mexico Time... for 60 minutes... no idea about streaming... Helo will be there, with questions for Elon, so we will be probably be getting tweets here... so join the party... I'm locking in my seat at 11 am Eastern time ;-)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: catdlr on 09/17/2016 02:47 am
Is there an announced timeline for Elon Musk's presentation/announcement? And any live streaming possibilities?

maybe someone will set up a Periscope and Facebook Live session.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/17/2016 06:59 am
Is there an announced timeline for Elon Musk's presentation/announcement? And any live streaming possibilities?

maybe someone will set up a Periscope and Facebook Live session.
I'll be in the room and try to do this. It will depend on the conference wifi bandwidth. Past experiences suggest that conference wifi is often very poor.

I set up a Periscope account username @TerraIcognita2016

Sucess will depend on 4 things:

1. If there is a live feed I won't need to.

2. I'll ask permission to do this so that I don't get chucked out.

3. Good Wifi. I don't want roaming charges.

4. A good position in the room with good audio. May not be possible

I'll do my best.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: high road on 09/17/2016 07:54 am
If there's no free alternative, I have no problem pitching in on the roaming charges.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/17/2016 08:13 am
If there's no free alternative, I have no problem pitching in on the roaming charges.
Appreciate the offer but my providers data roaming rate in Mexico is €7.12 per MB! and Periscope estimates 400MB per 30 mins. So for an hour long talk with questions using roaming would cost north of €6k!

Cheaper to buy a smartphone there and use a local sim. Unfortunately I'll only arrive very late the night before the talk so I won't have time to organise that.

It's Wifi or bust. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: MikeAtkinson on 09/17/2016 04:55 pm
Even if you can't stream live, please record. Elon is usually nuanced in what he says so a recording would be useful.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 09/17/2016 05:18 pm
As we just learned in a far more somber episode, multiple recordings from multiple angles are very important and help avoid overanalyzing a single one.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Johnnyhinbos on 09/17/2016 05:28 pm
I just hope his tone isn't icy...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Geron on 09/17/2016 05:50 pm
The best option is to buy one month unlimited data on Mexican SIM card, swap out your home SIM card. This way all cell service is like 40 pesos per month instead of 60 pesos per minute.

I all ways do that
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/18/2016 01:18 am
I intend to record in extremely high definition both video and audio.  Im not going to try live streaming, Ill leave glitchy periscope videos on hotel wifi or Mexican cell nets to other attendees. Im not going to try to out news the news guys, I will record this presentation for the record for NSF and attempt to not only ask questions but record the entirety of any Q&A periods.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: MarsInMyLifetime on 09/18/2016 02:07 am
Late to the party--must have been MIA when this thread was most active. I could not find the "Note" field to designate IAC fund, but you may use my donation to augment this great effort.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: biosehnsucht on 09/18/2016 03:25 am
I will record this presentation for the record for NSF and attempt to not only ask questions but record the entirety of any Q&A periods.

The real MVP.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: DOCinCT on 09/18/2016 07:06 pm
I'm so looking forward to Elon's talk and it's fantastic that NSF will be there and represented by Helodriver.

I've made a (modest) donation to NSF's IAC fund and I'm posting this simply to encourage others to donate too.

Think this is a great idea and also looking forward to reports etc.   I made a small donation as well.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Scylla on 09/19/2016 04:29 pm
Marcia Smith –  ‏@SpcPlcyOnline
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/777898492475875328

The IAC in Guadalajara next week will livestream all the plenary sessions (including Musk's).
Link:  http://livestream.com/accounts/4426843/events/6315496/player?width=640&height=360&enableInfoAndActivity=true&autoPlay=true&mute=false …
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/19/2016 04:40 pm
I'll set up the main threads for this. I think we need a live update thread and a discussion thread and heck maybe a party thread.

It's gonna be huge ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Unobscured Vision on 09/19/2016 04:59 pm
Please let us know if there are any "extra funding costs" that are needed for continued support during this event. I've got no problem chipping in if needed.  8)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: The Amazing Catstronaut on 09/19/2016 05:31 pm
I'll set up the main threads for this. I think we need a live update thread and a discussion thread and heck maybe a party thread.

It's gonna be huge ;D

I am never too highbrow for a party thread.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Johnnyhinbos on 09/19/2016 06:08 pm
I'll set up the main threads for this. I think we need a live update thread and a discussion thread and heck maybe a party thread.

It's gonna be huge ;D
"Youge!"

(Sorry - I hate myself for that)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: CraigLieb on 09/19/2016 06:15 pm
I'll set up the main threads for this. I think we need a live update thread and a discussion thread and heck maybe a party thread.

It's gonna be huge ;D

Party Thread name...
Elon says "ITS gonna be Youge!" party thread
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Terra Incognita on 09/19/2016 06:15 pm
How many NSF members are attending?

Could we have an IAC party Tuesday night?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 09/19/2016 10:12 pm
I'll set up the main threads for this. I think we need a live update thread and a discussion thread and heck maybe a party thread.

Could you put the date in the thread titles, please? Save me (and anyone else) hunting for it every time! :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Scylla on 09/21/2016 12:49 am
 ;D SpaceX youtube link is already up  ;D

Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1YxNYiyALg

Please move to update thread when it is set up. :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/21/2016 12:58 am
Will do! Thanks :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 09/21/2016 03:16 pm
Less than a week to go and no leaks.  I'm shocked!  I would much rather be awed.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: geza on 09/21/2016 05:19 pm
This is the description of the lecture by Elon:

Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species

Elon Musk will discuss the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a   permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars. The technical presentation will focus on potential architectures for colonizing the Red Planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years ahead.

It is in the final program of IAC:
http://www.iafastro.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IAC2016_FP_FULL-Doc_Sept201620_FINAL_LowResCHECK2.pdf
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: getitdoneinspace on 09/21/2016 08:49 pm
Does anyone know if the press conference immediately following the main presentation will be broadcast over the internet? Note that the press conference is taking place in Guadalajara Hall 7 (a different location from the main presentation).
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: bstrong on 09/21/2016 09:47 pm
Less than a week to go and no leaks.  I'm shocked!  I would much rather be awed.

He probably hasn't finished designing it yet. IIRC, the hyperloop proposal wasn't fully fleshed out until Elon (and others) pulled an all-nighter right before the announcement, and most of the design work happened during the week leading up to it.

Hopefully, the Mars architecture will be more fully-baked at this stage, but with everything else going on at SpaceX and Tesla right now competing for Musk's attention, I wouldn't count on it.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: rakaydos on 09/21/2016 11:49 pm
Less than a week to go and no leaks.  I'm shocked!  I would much rather be awed.

He probably hasn't finished designing it yet. IIRC, the hyperloop proposal wasn't fully fleshed out until Elon (and others) pulled an all-nighter right before the announcement, and most of the design work happened during the week leading up to it.

Hopefully, the Mars architecture will be more fully-baked at this stage, but with everything else going on at SpaceX and Tesla right now competing for Musk's attention, I wouldn't count on it.

I'd put Elon's tweet about "it can go beyond mars, gotta rename it" as "I just ran the numbers on other destinations for the presentation I'm putting together, and wow!"
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: neoforce on 09/22/2016 01:26 am

He probably hasn't finished designing it yet. IIRC, the hyperloop proposal wasn't fully fleshed out until Elon (and others) pulled an all-nighter right before the announcement, and most of the design work happened during the week leading up to it.

Hopefully, the Mars architecture will be more fully-baked at this stage, but with everything else going on at SpaceX and Tesla right now competing for Musk's attention, I wouldn't count on it.

I think you are wrong and it is a very advanced plan. The actual presentation may be still finalized but the architecture will not be half baked.

We know from the GQ article from December of last year:

"Musk starts most workweeks here at his rocket company, SpaceX, in an industrial suburb of Los Angeles, and each Monday, he explains to me, there is a brainstorm about "Mars colonial transport architecture."

A weekly brainstorm dating back into last year, with I'm sure other people working details between those meetings and adding the leaked information to Chris means this is not half baked.

Here is the link to the GQ article:  http://www.gq.com/story/elon-musk-mars-spacex-tesla-interview

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 09/22/2016 01:52 am
Less than a week to go and no leaks.  I'm shocked!  I would much rather be awed.

He probably hasn't finished designing it yet. IIRC, the hyperloop proposal wasn't fully fleshed out until Elon (and others) pulled an all-nighter right before the announcement, and most of the design work happened during the week leading up to it.

Hopefully, the Mars architecture will be more fully-baked at this stage, but with everything else going on at SpaceX and Tesla right now competing for Musk's attention, I wouldn't count on it.

Don't see how you could put the level of maturity similar to Hyperloop.  Hyperloop was just a concept with no real investment.  To date Spacex has committed 10's or 100's of millions of dollars in a new engine with a new fuel.  Sizing the engine means you have a plan and architecture identified.  Committing large sums to carbon fiber and tooling demonstrates they are executing said plan.  What is unknown to us is how much of the architecture and program plan will be revealed.

If the presentation is limited to genetic bs there are going to be a lot of dissapointed and upset fan boys.  I would be on that list.

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/22/2016 02:17 am
How many NSF members are attending?

Could we have an IAC party Tuesday night?

I will be there for certain. Definitely up for an NSF meetup.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: MP99 on 09/22/2016 06:03 am
To date Spacex has committed 10's or 100's of millions of dollars in a new engine with a new fuel.  Sizing the engine means you have a plan and architecture identified.

Not true.

Previous comments suggest they have identified an optimal size for the engine. Even if that size changes, the architecture will determine how many of them they use on each stage.

Cheers, Martin
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 09/22/2016 01:27 pm
To date Spacex has committed 10's or 100's of millions of dollars in a new engine with a new fuel.  Sizing the engine means you have a plan and architecture identified.

Not true.

Previous comments suggest they have identified an optimal size for the engine. Even if that size changes, the architecture will determine how many of them they use on each stage.

Cheers, Martin

We will know soon enough how far along they are, I hope.  I just don't see how you you can have foot prints on Mars in 9 years without having an architecture defined today.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: rocx on 09/22/2016 02:00 pm

We will know soon enough how far along they are, I hope.  I just don't see how you you can have foot prints on Mars in 9 years without having an architecture defined today.

Agree. The decision on which mode to use for Apollo (Earth Orbit Rendezvous, Lunar Orbit Rendezvous, Direct Ascent) was taken in 1962, seven years before the Moon landing. If you haven't decided how you are going, you can't plan any details.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ludus on 09/24/2016 01:50 am
Less than a week to go and no leaks.  I'm shocked!  I would much rather be awed.

He probably hasn't finished designing it yet. IIRC, the hyperloop proposal wasn't fully fleshed out until Elon (and others) pulled an all-nighter right before the announcement, and most of the design work happened during the week leading up to it.

Hopefully, the Mars architecture will be more fully-baked at this stage, but with everything else going on at SpaceX and Tesla right now competing for Musk's attention, I wouldn't count on it.

Don't see how you could put the level of maturity similar to Hyperloop.  Hyperloop was just a concept with no real investment.  To date Spacex has committed 10's or 100's of millions of dollars in a new engine with a new fuel.  Sizing the engine means you have a plan and architecture identified.  Committing large sums to carbon fiber and tooling demonstrates they are executing said plan.  What is unknown to us is how much of the architecture and program plan will be revealed.

If the presentation is limited to genetic bs there are going to be a lot of dissapointed and upset fan boys.  I would be on that list.

Hyperloop was an idea he had waiting in traffic before going to an interview. He mentioned it there with the tease about a cross between a Concorde and an air hockey table. Later running numbers on it, it turned out the idea wouldn't work. So they eventually came up with a variation that did, pulling an all nighter before releasing the white paper. It was all pretty accidental and informal.

You're right this is entirely different. Besides being about the central mission SpaceX has alway had, they've had engineers working on it full time for years.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/25/2016 09:33 pm
Next stop, the IAC.  Thanks NSF. Here's to a week of good info back to the site!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lar on 09/25/2016 09:57 pm
Helodriver: Hot jets, clear skies and happy landings.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/26/2016 03:06 am
On the ground safe and sound at the Expo site in Guadalajara.  Already have met some interesting people who know what NSF is and regard it highly. Events kick off in earnest tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: mme on 09/26/2016 05:26 am
I can't find the Raptor thread for some reason.  So this seems as good a place as any since no doubt Elon will talk about it:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/780275236922994688 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/780275236922994688)
Quote
Elon Musk
‏@elonmusk
SpaceX propulsion just achieved first firing of the Raptor interplanetary transport engine
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/26/2016 07:00 am
Raptor thread is http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34197.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34197.0)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cscott on 09/26/2016 12:27 pm
Points to everyone who suggested that IAC was SpaceX's internal deadline for first Raptor firing.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: ugordan on 09/26/2016 01:07 pm
The people in the trenches are probably appreciative of these kinds of deadlines for PRs sake.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: RedLineTrain on 09/26/2016 01:39 pm
One man's PR is another's "profiling my work on the biggest stage."
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/26/2016 04:30 pm
Just had a 10 minute one on one chat with Buzz Aldrin while hanging out waiting for the IAC to open.  Talked flying, helicopters and Mars. Mars Cyclers, according to him, are not part of either the LM Mars Base Camp or SpaceX architectures.

He will be giving a presentation after Elon speaks tomorrow

I was in the main exhibition hall and was watching the prep for the opening and turned around and he was just standing there next to me. Introduced myself and we started to chat.  I can die happy. :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: philw1776 on 09/26/2016 04:41 pm
Glad you chose not to tell Buzz that the moon landings were faked
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/26/2016 04:42 pm
Glad you chose not to tell Buzz that the moon landings were faked

He looks to be in good enough shape to still throw a mean punch.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: PerW on 09/26/2016 06:46 pm
You are soo the right person at the right place! 24h to go.

Skickat från min SM-G920F via Tapatalk

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/26/2016 07:44 pm
Sierra Nevada introducing a whole family of modules and freeflying spacecraft based on technology developed under CRS2 contract.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/26/2016 08:02 pm
Chinese company Landspace introducing new all solid fuel 4 stage smallsat launcher. Handing out these cool metal USB thumb drives that contain the specifications, and probably open the door of your data networks to cyberespionage. ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Oersted on 09/26/2016 08:04 pm
Introduced myself and we started to chat.  I can die happy. :)

I myself met him a few years ago... - In my job I come across heads of state, world-renowned political leaders and celebrities on a daily basis. Aldrin is the only guy I ever asked a handshake from. Congrats on your chat with him. Amazing!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Space Ghost 1962 on 09/26/2016 08:08 pm
Sierra Nevada introducing a whole family of modules and freeflying spacecraft based on technology developed under CRS2 contract.

Note the conical items. These are derivative unpressurized cargo carriers between Dream Chaser and payload adapter.

Apparently the battle over exploration "LEGO elements" for government missions is about to commence. They've joined OA in that department. Expect LM next to offer up parts too.

Edit/Lar: fixed that for ya.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: testguy on 09/26/2016 08:12 pm
Introduced myself and we started to chat.  I can die happy. :)

I myself met him a few years ago... - In my job I come across heads of state, world-renowned political leaders and celebrities on a daily basis. Aldrin is the only guy I ever asked a handshake from. Congrats on your chat with him. Amazing!

I also got to meet him a few months ago on his book tour.  He is pushing the Mars cycler hard.  I tried to engage him on Spacex and their Mars plans.  Buzz didn't appear to be a big fan.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: meekGee on 09/26/2016 08:33 pm
Just had a 10 minute one on one chat with Buzz Aldrin while hanging out waiting for the IAC to open.  Talked flying, helicopters and Mars. Mars Cyclers, according to him, are not part of either the LM Mars Base Camp or SpaceX architectures.

He will be giving a presentation after Elon speaks tomorrow

I was in the main exhibition hall and was watching the prep for the opening and turned around and he was just standing there next to me. Introduced myself and we started to chat.  I can die happy. :)

... but not before tomorrow, yes?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: RonM on 09/26/2016 08:43 pm
Chinese company Landspace introducing new all solid fuel 4 stage smallsat launcher. Handing out these cool metal USB thumb drives that contain the specifications, and probably open the door of your data networks to cyberespionage. ;)

When you get back home you need to safely examine the documents:

1) Setup computer with Linux OS.
2) Disconnect from network.
3) Insert USB drive.
4) Open documents and print.
5) Destroy computer and USB drive with a thermite grenade.  :)

Always practice safe computing.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/26/2016 10:38 pm
Attending the launch vehicle development technical presentations. Good details on Vega, Ariane
5 Ariane 6, H-II , H-3, Falcon 9 Vega and Epsilon vehicles so far. Full videos will uploaded in coming days.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: meekGee on 09/26/2016 11:55 pm
Attending the launch vehicle development technical presentations. Good details on Vega, Ariane
5 Ariane 6, H-II , H-3, Falcon 9 Vega and Epsilon vehicles so far. Full videos will uploaded in coming days.

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going.

If it ain't Mars, I'll take a pass?

... Lame.  :)

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: orbitjunkie on 09/27/2016 12:36 am
Mars Cyclers, according to him, are not part of either the LM Mars Base Camp or SpaceX architectures.

He will be giving a presentation after Elon speaks tomorrow

I've had some first hand insight into parts of what he may be presenting on this topic. Seems to be an extension of his recent cycler work with Purdue with a cool new twist. Anyone there planning to do a full report on it?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/27/2016 01:26 am
Mars Cyclers, according to him, are not part of either the LM Mars Base Camp or SpaceX architectures.

He will be giving a presentation after Elon speaks tomorrow

I've had some first hand insight into parts of what he may be presenting on this topic. Seems to be an extension of his recent cycler work with Purdue with a cool new twist. Anyone there planning to do a full report on it?

I will be at his presentation tomorrow.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Unobscured Vision on 09/27/2016 01:27 am
Chinese company Landspace introducing new all solid fuel 4 stage smallsat launcher. Handing out these cool metal USB thumb drives that contain the specifications, and probably open the door of your data networks to cyberespionage. ;)

When you get back home you need to safely examine the documents:

1) Setup computer with Linux OS.
2) Disconnect from network.
3) Insert USB drive.
4) Open documents and print.
5) Destroy computer and USB drive with a thermite grenade.  :)

Always practice safe computing.

Don't take chances. Destroy the printer too. Fire is an acceptable dispatcher. ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/27/2016 01:30 am
Lesson learned, when Sergei Krikalev shakes your hand, he is going to break it. Cosmonaut  Grip is a thing.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: tyrred on 09/27/2016 04:48 am
Helodriver, what I wouldn't give to be in your shoes.... Except my right hand!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: wing runner on 09/27/2016 05:20 am
Introduced myself and we started to chat.  I can die happy. :)

I myself met him a few years ago... - In my job I come across heads of state, world-renowned political leaders and celebrities on a daily basis. Aldrin is the only guy I ever asked a handshake from. Congrats on your chat with him. Amazing!

I also got to meet him a few months ago on his book tour.  He is pushing the Mars cycler hard.  I tried to engage him on Spacex and their Mars plans.  Buzz didn't appear to be a big fan.

Buzz, from 2016 with a quick mention of spacex.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2OFOGCb5zY?t=37m19s
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: QuantumG on 09/27/2016 10:21 am
Just had a 10 minute one on one chat with Buzz Aldrin while hanging out waiting for the IAC to open.

Ahh he's improved! People often find themselves in hour long conversations with him with no escape.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: JamesH65 on 09/27/2016 10:30 am
Chinese company Landspace introducing new all solid fuel 4 stage smallsat launcher. Handing out these cool metal USB thumb drives that contain the specifications, and probably open the door of your data networks to cyberespionage. ;)

When you get back home you need to safely examine the documents:

1) Setup computer with Linux OS.
2) Disconnect from network.
3) Insert USB drive.
4) Open documents and print.
5) Destroy computer and USB drive with a thermite grenade.  :)

Always practice safe computing.

Use a raspberry Pi, get data, remove SD card. Nuke card from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/27/2016 01:43 pm
So yesterday, the IAC gave us light shows, dancers, vaqueros, beauty queens, and a full up Lucha Libre Mexican wrestling contest along with moonwalkers, cosmonauts, technical presentations and space luminaries. They outdid themselves on day one, but the real show is today. Just a few hours to go.  We're ready, bring on the future.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/27/2016 01:54 pm
The Chopper just tweeted:

"OMG, I got to meet Derrick! #IAC" ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ekramer on 09/27/2016 02:56 pm
I wonder if we are finally going to find out what the meaning of 236 is?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207) <--L2 link, won't work unless you're L2.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Oersted on 09/27/2016 03:22 pm
Lesson learned, when Sergei Krikalev shakes your hand, he is going to break it. Cosmonaut  Grip is a thing.

It is obviously risky to be our hands-on reporter at hand at the meeting! - Looking forward to your reporting in the coming hours before Elon's talk. Since we can all see it live online it would be great if you could give us a flavour of the context, the mood and expectations among people present, etc.

Good luck!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: cro-magnon gramps on 09/27/2016 06:24 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qo78R_yYFA

Posted to YouTube By SpaceX about 2 pm ET...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: vapour_nudge on 09/28/2016 02:57 am
Ba humbug. I still can't see it happening. Musk is pushing for it but the hurdles are huge and I don't see it happening ever and considering Musk's advancing years he'll run out of time. If you're a Mars enthusiast, prepare for lots of pie in the sky plans. I'm tired of hearing these claims over and over. He's done wonders with the F9 and fly back in spite of the unreliability factor. But Mars? No, not gonna happen
Enjoy the Sci-fi announcement
I bet SpaceX sends the largest landed mass ever to the surface of Mars by the end of 2022. I'll bet you beverage of your choice, value not to exceed $10. Must be redeemed in person.

I fully expect this thread to be bumped by Robotbeat raising a cold glass of something in 2022.

#JourneyToNudgePurchasedBeverage
Come all the way to Aus? I'd buy you a drink win or lose just for making the effort
Anyways, looking forward to seeing the presentation nonetheless (on the Sci Fi channel) 😉
I feel another bah humbug coming on...
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/28/2016 01:44 pm
So, initial impressions from being there.

The energy and buzz surrounding this event approached rock star levels, everyone in attendance, from space professional, to local student, to crazy fanboy, was completely aware this was a momentous event.

Crowds started lining up outside the Guadalajara Hall, which had seating for about 4000 people, four hours prior to the talk.  Many of the people who were there for the event seemed to be there only for that, I had not noticed them the day prior around the IAC or in other presentations. It will be interesting to see if they are around for the remaining days.

There was a mad rush in when the doors were opened, a literal stampede as the general attendees made their way in about 30 minutes prior. Press was let in about 10 minutes before, and due to scouting the room beforehand, I knew where I generally wanted to go and when I saw where the microphones were placed for questions I picked a seat right next to the one on the press area.

When the main doors where opened, I was near the front of the room setting a remote camera and right next to a SpaceX security guy. When the rush began, he was busily talking into a microphone concealed in his hand secret service style reporting on the speed of the crowd rushing in and ready for any attempt to rush the backstage area where Elon was. The stampede was very concerning and I don't think it was fully anticipated.

The presentation itself  was extremely well received with cheering from the VIP section the press, and the general public as the details were addresses. The video of the architecture in action was met with stunned silence punctuated by murmurs of stunned disbelief at the size, the booster landing back on the pad, the massive front window, and images of the vehicle sitting on the moons of outer planets.

Question time and I made sure I was first. :) Back to the microphones, there were two in the room, run by IAC staff. One was in the left front press area and one was in the general public section on the right rear side.  The press got the first question (mine) and then it went to the public. (burning man toilet shit on mars guy   :o )  Questions were supposed to alternate but they took more questions from the general public before time ran out. I was three back from the mic for a second question when the event ended. There was a mad dash to the public microphone by those who spoke, I think they were crazies who wanted to insert themselves in the moment intentionally and use it as a promo plug for their pet cause or product. Those of us in line in the press area were rolling our eyes and cringing with embarrassment for Elon and ourselves at the inanity on display.

Despite the buffonery of the public, the main event totally lived up to expectations and I felt honored to be there. Later that day I went to presentations by Lockheed Martin on their Mars Base Camp plan to put astronauts on Phobos by 2028 and by Buzz Aldrin to use Cyclers to build a lunar and then a Mars base by 2030ish. Both, while technically interesting felt so small, quaint and so... yesterday after what was just revealed an hour before. Elon has set the bar to an unheard of level, now we just have to see if they can clear it.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: DigitalMan on 09/28/2016 02:39 pm
Thank you for this.  I couldn't be there but I appreciate the visualization you have presented.

So, initial impressions from being there.

The energy and buzz surrounding this event approached rock star levels, everyone in attendance, from space professional, to local student, to crazy fanboy, was completely aware this was a momentous event.

Crowds started lining up outside the Guadalajara Hall, which had seating for about 4000 people, four hours prior to the talk.  Many of the people who were there for the event seemed to be there only for that, I had not noticed them the day prior around the IAC or in other presentations. It will be interesting to see if they are around for the remaining days.

There was a mad rush in when the doors were opened, a literal stampede as the general attendees made their way in about 30 minutes prior. Press was let in about 10 minutes before, and due to scouting the room beforehand, I knew where I generally wanted to go and when I saw where the microphones were placed for questions I picked a seat right next to the one on the press area.

When the main doors where opened, I was near the front of the room setting a remote camera and right next to a SpaceX security guy. When the rush began, he was busily talking into a microphone concealed in his hand secret service style reporting on the speed of the crowd rushing in and ready for any attempt to rush the backstage area where Elon was. The stampede was very concerning and I don't think it was fully anticipated.

The presentation itself  was extremely well received with cheering from the VIP section the press, and the general public as the details were addresses. The video of the architecture in action was met with stunned silence punctuated by murmurs of stunned disbelief at the size, the booster landing back on the pad, the massive front window, and images of the vehicle sitting on the moons of outer planets.

Question time and I made sure I was first. :) Back to the microphones, there were two in the room, run by IAC staff. One was in the left front press area and one was in the general public section on the right rear side.  The press got the first question (mine) and then it went to the public. (burning man toilet shit on mars guy   :o )  Questions were supposed to alternate but they took more questions from the general public before time ran out. I was three back from the mic for a second question when the event ended. There was a mad dash to the public microphone by those who spoke, I think they were crazies who wanted to insert themselves in the moment intentionally and use it as a promo plug for their pet cause or product. Those of us in line in the press area were rolling our eyes and cringing with embarrassment for Elon and ourselves at the inanity on display.

Despite the buffonery of the public, the main event totally lived up to expectations and I felt honored to be there. Later that day I went to presentations by Lockheed Martin on their Mars Base Camp plan to put astronauts on Phobos by 2028 and by Buzz Aldrin to use Cyclers to build a lunar and then a Mars base by 2030ish. Both, while technically interesting felt so small, quaint and so... yesterday after what was just revealed an hour before. Elon has set the bar to an unheard of level, now we just have to see if they can clear it.

Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Alastor on 09/28/2016 02:55 pm
I wonder if we are finally going to find out what the meaning of 236 is?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207)

May I assume minimal Payload capacity ?
It looks to be in the right order. 
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Lars-J on 09/28/2016 05:05 pm
Great job, Helodriver!  :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/28/2016 05:17 pm
Just ran into Sergei Krikalev again. I remarked that my hand still hurts from the handshake the other night. His answer was "When you go outside of station, strong grip very important" Classic.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Ekramer on 09/28/2016 05:44 pm
I wonder if we are finally going to find out what the meaning of 236 is?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207)

May I assume minimal Payload capacity ?
It looks to be in the right order.
Yes, looks about right and would make Chris fall off his chair
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chasm on 09/28/2016 05:49 pm
Going way back, to the start of this thread

Here's how it went the last time I met Elon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBaLYDbk4fY&feature=youtu.be&t=22m17s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBaLYDbk4fY&feature=youtu.be&t=22m17s)


And that is why Elon mentioned Pizza Joints so often during the Mars talk.  8)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/28/2016 09:40 pm
Because sometimes a cubesat is just too big. ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/28/2016 10:11 pm
Doors are open, T-45 minutes to the day's highlight presentation by Lockheed Martin of their Mars Base Camp concept. Same hall as the SpaceX show yesterday, but the air and energy has literally been sucked out of the room.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/28/2016 10:18 pm
Doors are open, T-45 minutes to the day's highlight presentation by Lockheed Martin of their Mars Base Camp concept. Same hall as the SpaceX show yesterday, but the air and energy has literally been sucked out of the room.
Have hope, maybe the "toilet guy" will be back... ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/28/2016 10:26 pm
Doors are open, T-45 minutes to the day's highlight presentation by Lockheed Martin of their Mars Base Camp concept. Same hall as the SpaceX show yesterday, but the air and energy has literally been sucked out of the room.
Have hope, maybe the "toilet guy" will be back... ;D



 I am sitting right next to the question microphone. That guy isn't getting within 50 feet of the mic if I have anything to do with it.






Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chasm on 09/28/2016 10:37 pm
*g*

Quick reminder, they are still streaming (http://livestream.com/accounts/4426843/events/6315496/player) the talks from the main hall. (Sure hope that they cut them later and put them up as singles.)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/29/2016 12:44 am
No open mic for questions after all at Mars Base Camp, instead they took written questions on slips of paper and then chose a very few to answer. No one is risking Marstoiletshitguy or ElonBus2 Electric Boogaloo ever again at the IAC.

Mars Base Camp is the sober studious little sister to the flashy bold and dreamy ITS.  1000 day mission 6 crew, two Orions, hab and lab modules, airlocks, cryo propulsion stages based on flight proven engines. Boots on Martian moons in 2028, landsing sometime after, reuse of some of the components after return leg by putting them back in high Lunar Orbit where they started out. Some components also left in mars orbit of subsbquent missions. Everything made to fly on SLS. SEP tugs take Lab, airlocks, and fuel ahead in years before crew sets off.


They did tease the crowd (which was a tiny fraction of what was there the day prior for SpaceX) with a pointy wingy lander they said they would release specifics on in the future.

After the presentation I managed to get with one of the presenters, LM's Rob Chambers and ask lander related questions and he did let on the following:

Tail sitting vertical landing; 3 person crew; LOX/LH2, Proven engines, Reusable for multiple trips to the Mars surface and back; combined aerobraking lifting body reentry and supersonic retropropulsion; entire vehicle lands and ascends; designed to be launched in once piece atop SLS without a fairing; Most likely will be sent ahead via SEP tug. ISRU and Methane fuel being looked at but LH2 is baseline.

An image is attached.

I also videoed the entire presentation, and will upload in the coming days.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: clongton on 09/29/2016 12:48 am
So SpaceX is planning to give NASA some SLS business? Wow!
Thanks for the lander image.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 09/29/2016 12:52 am
So SpaceX is planning to give NASA some SLS business? Wow!
Thanks for the lander image.

Not sure what you mean? How is SpaceX giving SLS business?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: clongton on 09/29/2016 12:56 am
So SpaceX is planning to give NASA some SLS business? Wow!
Thanks for the lander image.

Not sure what you mean? How is SpaceX giving SLS business?

Helo's post just above:

2nd paragraph, last line
Quote
Everything made to fly on SLS.

last paragraph 3rd line
Quote
designed to be launched in once piece atop SLS without a fairing
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 09/29/2016 12:58 am
So SpaceX is planning to give NASA some SLS business? Wow!
Thanks for the lander image.

Not sure what you mean? How is SpaceX giving SLS business?

Helo's post just above:

2nd paragraph, last line
Quote
Everything made to fly on SLS.

last paragraph 3rd line
Quote
designed to be launched in once piece atop SLS without a fairing

Right.  These are all LM products.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: clongton on 09/29/2016 01:03 am
So SpaceX is planning to give NASA some SLS business? Wow!
Thanks for the lander image.

Not sure what you mean? How is SpaceX giving SLS business?

Helo's post just above:

2nd paragraph, last line
Quote
Everything made to fly on SLS.

last paragraph 3rd line
Quote
designed to be launched in once piece atop SLS without a fairing

Right.  These are all LM products.

Gotcha. Thread about SpaceX/Mars. Discussion about SpaceX Mars plans. Helo slipped in a LM quote. Went right over my head.  ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 09/29/2016 01:05 am
Gotta watch out for that Helo-guy... pretty sly one. ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/29/2016 01:12 am
Gotta watch out for that Helo-guy... pretty sly one. ;)

The SpaceX announcement was one hour out of 6 days of the IAC, (most important hour of course) Plenty of interesting things to learn about and report on here. :)

I'm using this thread as kind of an initial dumping ground of interesting breaking news which can later be incorporated into articles and put in the right place.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: AncientU on 09/29/2016 01:15 am
Gotta watch out for that Helo-guy... pretty sly one. ;)

The SpaceX announcement was one hour out of 6 days of the IAC, (most important hour of course) Plenty of interesting things to learn about and report on here. :)

I'm using this thread as kind of an initial dumping ground of interesting breaking news which can later be incorporated into articles and put in the right place.

Keep it coming!  Great job. Amazing stamina.
Know that I'd be meeting'd out by day three as I am at all AAS and SPIE meetings.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/29/2016 01:33 am
I wonder if we are finally going to find out what the meaning of 236 is?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207)

May I assume minimal Payload capacity ?
It looks to be in the right order.
Yes, looks about right and would make Chris fall off his chair

Oh yeah, forgot about the 236 tease. No love for my pre-IAC Tanker tease? Seeing that right at the start of the video made me squeal like Flanders in the Simpsons ;D

PS It was a sofa I fell off! I don't fall off chairs, that would be silly. ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: clongton on 09/29/2016 10:40 am
Gotta watch out for that Helo-guy... pretty sly one. ;)

The SpaceX announcement was one hour out of 6 days of the IAC, (most important hour of course) Plenty of interesting things to learn about and report on here. :)

I'm using this thread as kind of an initial dumping ground of interesting breaking news which can later be incorporated into articles and put in the right place.

Gotta make sure I read every post of yours carefully so I don't miss any secret words - like "LM".  :)
Thanking you again - very, very much!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/29/2016 04:23 pm
New launch vehicles being marketed by Chinese company "Exspace".

Move grid fins from top of rocket to bottom and the "X" from end of name to front and voila, no one is the wiser! ;)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Mongo62 on 09/29/2016 04:40 pm
I wonder if we are finally going to find out what the meaning of 236 is?
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=38409.msg1433207#msg1433207)

May I assume minimal Payload capacity ?
It looks to be in the right order.
Yes, looks about right and would make Chris fall off his chair

Oh yeah, forgot about the 236 tease. No love for my pre-IAC Tanker tease? Seeing that right at the start of the video made me squeal like Flanders in the Simpsons ;D

PS It was a sofa I fell off! I don't fall off chairs, that would be silly. ;)

I am guessing that the material that Chris received was more detailed, but also rather outdated by now.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/29/2016 05:49 pm
Remove Before Flight tags are popular swag at IAC 2016.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: baldusi on 09/29/2016 07:11 pm
Is there more info on the KZ-11, like thrust of the segments and such?
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/30/2016 03:04 am
New launch vehicles being marketed by Chinese company "Exspace".

Move grid fins from top of rocket to bottom and the "X" from end of name to front and voila, no one is the wiser! ;)

That company is a subsidiary of CASIC, one of China's main missile development institution and has actually flew satellites to space twice already after failing to secure any government money for their satellite launcher.

I'll start a thread about them soon.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/30/2016 09:49 am
Is there more info on the KZ-11, like thrust of the segments and such?

No one at the booth was either willing or able to give any technical details about the vehicle.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/30/2016 10:23 am
Into  the expo center at 5AM for live transmission of Rosetta impact at IAC.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/30/2016 12:38 pm
Remove Before Flight tags are popular swag at IAC 2016.
I do have the "Remove Before Flight" (of course) ;) I really like that "Remove Before Launch" tag! ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Helodriver on 09/30/2016 06:02 pm
So today is the last day of the 2016 IAC and it has been an amazing experience. Not only to be here to see the Musk presentation but to be immersed in the international space community for a week of fantastic information gathering.

Over the next few days/weeks i'll be editing video and pix and audio getting them to Chris to serve as the basis for hopefully many articles on SpaceX and  many other topics.

Additionally I have spoken with everyone from future JPL mission principal investigators, to Commercial space VPs, to moon walkers, to startup innovative launch companies and will be contacting them after the event to hit them up for details on their plans for still more articles and posts here.

I also have some cool swag to trade if anyone is interested, including ultra rare AMOS-6 key chains that were produced to be given out at the Israel Aerospace Industries booth but held back from release due to recent obvious events. I got my hands on a few after the booth attendant apparently mistook me for someone else. ;)


Its been an fantastic experience and I want to publicly thank NSF readers and particularly those who donated to the site to defray the costs to make the trip possible. I tried to do our well recognized and highly regarded by many in the space community site proud.

So with that, as booths break down around me at the Guadalajara Expo Center and the IAC 2016 comes to an end,
¡Hasta luego! from Mexico.
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: PahTo on 09/30/2016 06:07 pm

Gracias big time, Helo!  Safe travels back to the States and thanks for your great coverage (and for the future articles yet to be written)!  Vaya con Dios!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/30/2016 06:51 pm
You have made us proud and continued to elevate NSF in the space community, thank you. Safe journey home my friend! :)
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: baldusi on 09/30/2016 08:04 pm
I don't think that it was chance that you got the first question with Elon. Congratulations and keep the good work!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/30/2016 09:42 pm
So today is the last day of the 2016 IAC and it has been an amazing experience. Not only to be here to see the Musk presentation but to be immersed in the international space community for a week of fantastic information gathering.

Over the next few days/weeks i'll be editing video and pix and audio getting them to Chris to serve as the basis for hopefully many articles on SpaceX and  many other topics.

Additionally I have spoken with everyone from future JPL mission principal investigators, to Commercial space VPs, to moon walkers, to startup innovative launch companies and will be contacting them after the event to hit them up for details on their plans for still more articles and posts here.

I also have some cool swag to trade if anyone is interested, including ultra rare AMOS-6 key chains that were produced to be given out at the Israel Aerospace Industries booth but held back from release due to recent obvious events. I got my hands on a few after the booth attendant apparently mistook me for someone else. ;)


Its been an fantastic experience and I want to publicly thank NSF readers and particularly those who donated to the site to defray the costs to make the trip possible. I tried to do our well recognized and highly regarded by many in the space community site proud.

So with that, as booths break down around me at the Guadalajara Expo Center and the IAC 2016 comes to an end,
¡Hasta luego! from Mexico.

Great work Derrick!

You feed us the content, we'll knock out the articles ;D
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Oersted on 09/30/2016 10:07 pm
Thanks, Helo, for that first question to Elon. Not your fault that it all went downhill (or should we say "down the toilet"?) from there...

¡Buen regreso!
Title: Re: NSF at IAC Mexico for the SpaceX Mars Announcement.
Post by: Bob Shaw on 09/30/2016 10:24 pm
Because sometimes a cubesat is just too big. ;)

Don't Panic!