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International Space Station (ISS) => ISS Section => Topic started by: norm103 on 06/13/2006 05:32 pm

Title: Russian Segment
Post by: norm103 on 06/13/2006 05:32 pm
is there going to be any more Russian Segment launched to the ISS?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/13/2006 06:40 pm
Yes the Multipurpose Laboratory Module is due to be launched by a proton in 2008 IIRC. There are also suggestions for further modules but these are less certain.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 06/13/2006 09:54 pm
There is a page about the MLM at the Khrunichev site:

http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/full_mks.asp?id=13190
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: norm103 on 06/17/2006 11:42 pm
will were this would be docked to?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 06/18/2006 02:05 am
To the nadir port of Zarya
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/18/2006 11:25 am
Quote
Suzy - 18/6/2006  5:52 AM

To the nadir port of Zarya

Russian specialists are discussing now the possibility of docking of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of Zvezda Module (Pirs Module should be relocated to the zenith port of the Zvezda Module before that)...

The reason: the Zarya Module belongs to USA, which may leave ISS after 2015... Therefore, Russian and U.S. segments may be separated and the Zarya Module will be left attached to U.S. segment... And then the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be possibly the Base Module for the new Russian Space Station...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: PlanetStorm on 06/18/2006 12:48 pm
Quote
anik - 18/6/2006  6:12 AM

Quote
Suzy - 18/6/2006  5:52 AM

To the nadir port of Zarya

Russian specialists are discussing now the possibility of docking of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of Zvezda Module (Pirs Module should be relocated to the zenith port of the Zvezda Module before that)...

The reason: the Zarya Module belongs to USA, which may leave ISS after 2015... Therefore, Russian and U.S. segments may be separated and the Zarya Module will be left attached to U.S. segment... And then the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be possibly the Base Module for the new Russian Space Station...

How can Zarya go anywhere? Would it work as a free flyer?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/18/2006 02:00 pm
It already has worked as a free flyer for more than a year, before the SM went up.

The ISS can not be broken up.  That is nonsense.  It can't be separated and have two independent stations.
The Russian segment provides propulsion and thrusted attitude control for the whole ISS

The Zarya has long exceeded its life for most of its systems.  Right now, it is only being used as a structual element and fuel storage.   It would still have to be controlled by the Russians.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/18/2006 07:08 pm
Zarya probably can't deorbit the rest of the station
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/18/2006 09:45 pm
Quote
anik - 18/6/2006  7:12 AM

Quote
Suzy - 18/6/2006  5:52 AM

To the nadir port of Zarya

Russian specialists are discussing now the possibility of docking of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of Zvezda Module (Pirs Module should be relocated to the zenith port of the Zvezda Module before that)...

The reason: the Zarya Module belongs to USA, which may leave ISS after 2015... Therefore, Russian and U.S. segments may be separated and the Zarya Module will be left attached to U.S. segment... And then the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be possibly the Base Module for the new Russian Space Station...

The reason can't be that Zarya is officially owned by the US. When NASA leaves the project in 2016, it shouldn't be too hard to convince NASA to let go off the Zarya Module as well - before deorbiting the rest (by use of an ATV+Progres etc.). It would make more sense if the reason to just take Zvedza and the MLM, is that Zarya is too old to be of any use in 2016.

Beside that, the Russian segment needs addtional power from the US solar panels to work properly, in order to use the Russian modules as an independent space station at least one additional module will be necessary that provides enough power for the other modules - could that be a new Zarya module (with additional solar panels to provide more power)?

By the way, as this thread is about the Russian segment, any news on the other Russian lab beside the MLM, that is the 'Russian Research Module' that is apparently still scheduled to go to the ISS around 2009 (it is still mentioned on the official NASA launch schedule)?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/18/2006 10:20 pm
Zarya has a probe, so ATV or Progress can't dock with it.  The USOS would needs a Russian piece of hardware to interface with a ATV or Progress.  In 2016 the SM would be beyond its lifetime also.  The PMA between Node 1 and Zarya has been disabled.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/21/2006 09:07 pm
Quote
mr.columbus - 19/6/2006  1:32 AM

By the way, as this thread is about the Russian segment, any news on the other Russian lab beside the MLM, that is the 'Russian Research Module' that is apparently still scheduled to go to the ISS around 2009 (it is still mentioned on the official NASA launch schedule)?

Alas, the Research Module (IM) will not be built...

Below is our current "fantastic" plans (from RSC Energiya)...

The Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) will be docked to the nadir port of Zvezda Service Module (SM) in August 2008 (in the best case)... Sometime after that the docking module (DM) with six ports will be docked to MLM, two Small Research Modules (MIM-1 and MIM-2) will be docked to DM, two Small Science Power Platforms (NEP-1 and NEP-2) will be docked to MIM-1 and MIM-2 accordingly... Soyuz, Progress, Kliper and Parom will dock to another ports of DM...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: spacedreams on 06/21/2006 10:58 pm
Not to mention. if you deorbit the US segment you take the Japanese and ESA segments with it. They are on the front end of the "US" segment with no possible interface to the Russian segments
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/22/2006 08:11 pm
Quote
Not to mention. if you deorbit the US segment you take the Japanese and ESA segments with it. They are on the front end of the "US" segment with no possible interface to the Russian segments

But that is something the plan by the Russians does not care about - as far as I understand it the basic idea is to keep Russian LEO activity alive after 2016 and reduce costs as much as possible in doings so. That said, because 1. there is no way the Russian space agency could just take over management and operations for the whole ISS after NASA leaves the project and 2. the Russian segments are designed to operate without the rest of the ISS, if NASA sticks with the agreed end of ISS operations in 2016, the Russian plan asks for detaching the Russian modules from the rest + that naturally means also from the Japanese and European modules - ESA and JAXA can't however do anything against that, both NASA and Roscomos' obligations end with 2016 and Columbus and KIBO would need to have NASA involvement in the project anyway in order to be used after 2016.

@anik:

The plan of two small Russian Research modules was, as far as I know, the original plan in the 1990s. Two years ago I read an article that Roskosmos informed NASA that they would keep their ISS commitment by providing the MLM in 2007/2008 and another MLM-like module in 2009/2010. This was still the plan in December 2005 when the new ISS design was approved by the partners, therefore the NASA launch schedule lists one Russian Research Module to be launched some time after the MLM. Is the plan you outline now the current one?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/22/2006 09:43 pm
Quote
mr.columbus - 22/6/2006  11:58 PM

Is the plan you outline now the current one?

Yes, it is a current plan, which was made at RSC Energiya recently...

Energiya has made the booklet, in which this configuration of Russian segment is described... According to it, we do not want (or NASA forbids) to dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zarya Module... And, instead of the Research Module, which will not be built, we will dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zvezda Module...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/22/2006 10:09 pm
The nadir port of Zarya is open until the installation of Node 3, after that the proximity between the arriving Russian module and node 3 is too small. I don't know when the Node 3 is to be installed but it one of the last things to go up I think which gives the Russians to early 2009, no later.

Plus does anyone know how Pirs is planned to be moved to make the nadir port of Zvezda available?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/23/2006 12:06 am
Quote
nacnud - 23/6/2006  1:56 AM

does anyone know how Pirs is planned to be moved to make the nadir port of Zvezda available?

I believe that with a help of SSRMS, but FRGF unit (for grapple of Pirs by SSRMS) should be installed onto Pirs before that...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/23/2006 12:24 am
Can the SSRMS reach? The ERA is going up with the MLM but thats no help if Pirs is still in the way. Plus IIRC the cone and drogue docking system needs a high impulse to latch correctly, can an arm provide this?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 06/25/2006 12:33 pm
Quote
anik - 22/6/2006  10:30 PM

Yes, it is a current plan, which was made at RSC Energiya recently...

Energiya has made the booklet, in which this configuration of Russian segment is described... According to it, we do not want (or NASA forbids) to dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zarya Module... And, instead of the Research Module, which will not be built, we will dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zvezda Module...

I've seen that boklet before, but now I can't seem to find it. Dont' suppose you have a link to it?

thanks
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/25/2006 06:36 pm
Quote
bobthemonkey - 25/6/2006  4:20 PM

I've seen that boklet before, but now I can't seem to find it. Dont' suppose you have a link to it?

I believe that you and I speak about different booklets... I am sorry, but the booklet, about which I speak, was made for internal use only...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/25/2006 09:06 pm

I guess Roskosmos did not do a good job in conveying this plan to NASA. After the last ISS meeting, they updated the ISS assembly structure like this (with the MLM and one Russian Research Module):

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/143942main_ISS_config.jpg

Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 06/25/2006 10:05 pm
Quote
anik - 25/6/2006  7:23 PM

Quote
bobthemonkey - 25/6/2006  4:20 PM

I've seen that boklet before, but now I can't seem to find it. Dont' suppose you have a link to it?

I believe that you and I speak about different booklets... I am sorry, but the booklet, about which I speak, was made for internal use only...

ok then, but i'm sure the graphic was released somewhere, L2 prehaps ?

just to check;
did the two research modules extend away from zvezda, with the two NEP's appearing onwards from them, similar to the scaled down NEP, except there were only two solar panels on each, and the long axis of the panels was parallel to the long axis on the modules.

thanks
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/26/2006 10:40 am
I have seen images on here somewhere that show some plans of further development of the Russian section of the ISS, but I can't remember where. I think they came from a presentation on the Klipper.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 06/26/2006 03:13 pm
been looking through the forums

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2077&start=1

last post on the page

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/26/2006 09:39 pm
What would be the launch vehicle for MIM-1 and MIM-2. As it is contemplated that they are 'Small' Research Modules I suppose it is not Proton. Would it make sense to convert a Progress transporter into a small lab and launch it to the ISS? If launched by Soyuz 2.1b it could be a as heavy as 8.2tons of which 3 tons could be used for outfitting the module with scientific equipment. Any thoughts on this (I know this is far from being realistical and we should be glad to see MLM being launched in 2008)?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/26/2006 09:53 pm
If not proton then one of the Angaras then?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 06/27/2006 02:44 am
Is there an updated Energiya diagram of the Russian segment available anywhere? The one on their site - http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/iss/iss-r-segment.html - is from a few years ago. (I wish they would put more stuff on their site, and update it more often!)
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 06/27/2006 11:52 am
This is from the earlier link, and appears to match with anik's description of the internal document

[img=http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/get-attachment.asp?action=view&attachmentid=4375]
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/27/2006 12:27 pm
I don't think that is the proper config.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/27/2006 02:04 pm
What do you think is wrong with it?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/27/2006 02:18 pm
This is the current configuration after ISS meeting this spring

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/143942main_ISS_config.jpg
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 06/27/2006 02:57 pm
Quote
anik - 22/6/2006  10:30 PM

Yes, it is a current plan, which was made at RSC Energiya recently...

Energiya has made the booklet, in which this configuration of Russian segment is described... According to it, we do not want (or NASA forbids) to dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zarya Module... And, instead of the Research Module, which will not be built, we will dock the Multipurpose Laboratory Module to the nadir port of the Zvezda Module...

Jim, thats what i thought it would end up as, but it doesn't seem to mathc what the russians are saying. If only the MLM is being flown, wouldn't the nadir port of zvezda make more sense in terms of clearence for docking.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/27/2006 04:34 pm
Yes I agree that is the plan for the ISS in 2010, thanks for the link :) The previouse picture showing the extra Russian modules is a very speculative post 2010 possible Russian further development of the ISS. There is after all 6 years between the completion of the station and US pullout, and therefore likly end of ISS operations.

I was wondering if there was anything fundementaly impossible with the extra very speculative Russian modules. IE CG limits, etc.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/27/2006 04:55 pm
Quote
nacnud - 27/6/2006  12:21 PM

Yes I agree that is the plan for the ISS in 2010, thanks for the link :) The previouse picture showing the extra Russian modules is a very speculative post 2010 possible Russian further development of the ISS. There is after all 6 years between the completion of the station and US pullout, and therefore likly end of ISS operations.

I was wondering if there was anything fundementaly impossible with the extra very speculative Russian modules. IE CG limits, etc.

That was just Energia doing a marketing pitch
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/27/2006 04:58 pm
Sadly I suspect you're right.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/27/2006 05:00 pm
Quote
nacnud - 27/6/2006  12:45 PM

Sadly I suspect you're right.

I guess they are trying to increase their revenue streams.  Kliper, lunar flybys, etc are all examples
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/27/2006 06:11 pm
Quote
Jim - 27/6/2006  12:42 PM

Quote
nacnud - 27/6/2006  12:21 PM

Yes I agree that is the plan for the ISS in 2010, thanks for the link :) The previouse picture showing the extra Russian modules is a very speculative post 2010 possible Russian further development of the ISS. There is after all 6 years between the completion of the station and US pullout, and therefore likly end of ISS operations.

I was wondering if there was anything fundementaly impossible with the extra very speculative Russian modules. IE CG limits, etc.

That was just Energia doing a marketing pitch

I am not so sure about that only being a marketing pitch. The NASA ISS assembly sequence includes the MLM and ANOTHER Russian Research module the same size as the MLM. Energia's outline does not include this other RM, but rather as anik stated earlier in this thread it includes two smaller RMs that are attached to the MLM. It could very well be that it is really a problem to connect a Russian module to the Zarya port once Node 3 is connected and therefore they had to change the structure of the Russian segment. Or it might even be cheaper to plan two smaller RMs (to be delivered by Soyuz based on a Progress - like the Pirs airlock) than to build a 20ton MLM-based research module to be delivered by a Proton rocket (Proton launch 80 million USD + 400 million USD the RM vs. 2 x 30 million Soyuz launches + 2 x 100 million USD modified Progresses with scientific equipment).

But that said, let's hope they actually do some work on the MLM and stick to a 2008 launch date for it. By the way, has further work on the MLM (which has been 70% finished for the last 10 years) started yet?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/27/2006 07:05 pm
Just found this link http://www.astronautix.com/craft/proessm2.htm to Progress M2, a modified Progress to be launched by Zenit that could be outfitted as a lab. It was planned in conjunction with Mir-2. It is however rather unlikely that Roskosmos would be willing to pay for two Zenit launches instead of a Proton or two Soyuz launches...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 06/27/2006 07:51 pm
Quote
mr.columbus - 27/6/2006  2:52 PM

Just found this link http://www.astronautix.com/craft/proessm2.htm to Progress M2, a modified Progress to be launched by Zenit that could be outfitted as a lab. It was planned in conjunction with Mir-2. It is however rather unlikely that Roskosmos would be willing to pay for two Zenit launches instead of a Proton or two Soyuz launches...

M2 was from the late 90's.  It was  cancelled with along with the FGB logistics carrier/
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/29/2006 07:49 pm
Quote
anik - 22/6/2006  12:54 AM

The Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) will be docked to the nadir port of Zvezda Service Module (SM) in August 2008 (in the best case)...

According to interview of President of RSC Energiya Nikolai Sevastyanov in the next issue (No. 7/2006) of Russian "Novosti kosmonavtiki" magazine, the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will be launched in 2009 now... :(
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 06/29/2006 09:45 pm
So long as it gets there before node 3.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: norm103 on 07/12/2006 04:21 am
can all 5 ports on the russian part have soyuz and proges and atv dock to them or just the 3 that are used now days
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: HailColumbia on 07/12/2006 04:34 am
Quote
mr.columbus - 18/6/2006  5:32 PM


The reason can't be that Zarya is officially owned by the US. When NASA leaves the project in 2016, it shouldn't be too hard to convince NASA to let go off the Zarya Module as well - before deorbiting the rest (by use of an ATV+Progres etc.). It would make more sense if the reason to just take Zvedza and the MLM, is that Zarya is too old to be of any use in 2016.


Uhhh... Why would the we deorbit the US segment if the US pulled out? why wouldent the US just leave it for the rest of the partners?  Is that actually being contemplated?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 07/12/2006 10:49 am
There are only four free ports on the Russian side of the staion.

Aft Zvedza, cone and drouge.
Zenith Zvedza, hybrid.
Nadir Pirs, cone and drouge.
Nadir Zarya, cone and drouge.

Soyuz/Progress can dock to the cone and drouge ports, while the hybrid ports are wider and designed to dock modules together. Pirs as well as being an air lock has a hybrid on its Zenith port and cone and drouge on its nadir port. There is no Zenith port on the Zarya.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 07/12/2006 05:27 pm
Quote
HailColumbia - 12/7/2006  12:21 AM

Quote
mr.columbus - 18/6/2006  5:32 PM


The reason can't be that Zarya is officially owned by the US. When NASA leaves the project in 2016, it shouldn't be too hard to convince NASA to let go off the Zarya Module as well - before deorbiting the rest (by use of an ATV+Progres etc.). It would make more sense if the reason to just take Zvedza and the MLM, is that Zarya is too old to be of any use in 2016.


Uhhh... Why would the we deorbit the US segment if the US pulled out? why wouldent the US just leave it for the rest of the partners?  Is that actually being contemplated?

It was explained in this forum a couple of times already. Right now NASA employs thousands of people to operate the ISS and spends 1.8 billion annually on that (EVAs, software, general management, medical support etc. etc.). So first, ESA, Russia and JAXA would need to provide the function of the current NASA ISS-people and also build the facilities etc. needed for them. Secondly, there is no "ISS handbook" that explains the procedures you need to go through to keep the ISS running - because of its complexity you would need to have people who know what they are doing and the only once who do that are the current ISS NASA people - so it is not only a financial problem, but also a procedural problem.

In contrast, the Russian segment is managed from Moscow and therefore could be used as a base for a new Russian space station if decoupled from the rest of the ISS before deorbiting.

And from the question of what is contemplated - yes currently the plan is to have the last ISS-crew leave the station in 2016 (NASA's budget analysis reserves 2.5 billion for the ISS in 2016 and then after-operations shut-down costs of 300-400 million in 2017) and then use a Progress and the ISS propulsion system to deorbit it in a controlled way (otherwise the ISS could deorbit over inhabitated areas of the Earth).
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 07/12/2006 06:16 pm
To quote jim, earlier in the thread

Quote
The ISS can not be broken up. That is nonsense. It can't be separated and have two independent stations.
The Russian segment provides propulsion and thrusted attitude control for the whole ISS
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 07/12/2006 10:22 pm
Quote
bobthemonkey - 12/7/2006  2:03 PM

To quote jim, earlier in the thread

Quote
The ISS can not be broken up. That is nonsense. It can't be separated and have two independent stations.
The Russian segment provides propulsion and thrusted attitude control for the whole ISS

Not sure if you are replying to my post. Jim is right if we would be talking about TWO separate stations that should independently function. There is however no problem, if only Zvedza, the MLM and Pirs are decoupled and the rest (US part) is deorbited by Zarya. The MLM and Zvedza both can provide attitude control and propulsion for an independently flying 'ISS-Russian segment' station.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 07/12/2006 11:00 pm
sorry, meant to add my own comment to my inital post.

Zarya has limited propulsion capability, only thrusters, raher than the two larger engines on Zvezda so another propulsion system would be needed to deorbit the US section. ATV/Progress are out of the question as could only dock to the Zarya nadir port and HTV would probably lack sufficient engines, besides it will be beyond its service life by 2016. This leaves the only viable options as either launching the Interim Control Module on a expendable, with an additional tug to complete the transfer, or a one off modified pprogress/ATV designed to dock with the hybrid docking port on Zarya.  

These options would not only be very expensive, but  the resultant station would be of questionable use. Most of Zvezda's systems will be beyond certified life, and the station would rely on RCS for station keeping. Unless the RSA can find enough funds to launch another module with gyros and new systems the idea is dead in the water.

Anyway, all this assumes such a split-up is possible, which it isn't.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 07/12/2006 11:02 pm

"Zarya has limited propulsion capability, only thrusters"

Wrong, Zarya has engines as big as Zvezda , juct canted.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 07/12/2006 11:16 pm
Oops, sorry about that, slip of the mind as its almost midnight this side of the pond. need sleep or coffee.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 07/13/2006 02:09 am
Just as a random note I think it may be possible to fit small reaction wheels inside Zvezda, well at least some of the earlier DOS stations had them.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: norm103 on 07/17/2006 03:47 am
so is this how its going to look?  its from the nasa web site and has a 6/2006 date
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 07/17/2006 08:24 am
That picture has the MLM and another RM as part of the Russian segment. That is what I thought the Russian segment was planned to look like at the beginning of this thread. Anik pointed out that this apparently is not the planned structure of the Russian segment - which however may not have been communicated to NASA yet...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/17/2006 08:56 pm
Below is the image of prospect of development of Russian segment of ISS, which was published in Russian "Novosti kosmonavtiki" magazine (No. 7, 2006)...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Avron on 07/18/2006 01:18 am
Anik... maybe you can help with some of the translation... the only Item I can 'read' is the ATV
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 07/18/2006 06:33 pm
Well in the end it does not matter anyhow. If the MLM is only going up in 2009, I doubt Roskosmos will fund an additional module - so we will neither see the RM docked to Zarya as in NASA's most recent 2006 drawing nor the complex 2 RMs, Kliper and Parom attached to the MLM.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/18/2006 07:03 pm
Quote
mr.columbus - 18/7/2006  10:20 PM

the RM docked to Zarya as in NASA's most recent 2006 drawing

See closely... The Multipurpose Laboratory Module with the ERA manipulator is docked to the Zarya Module on NASA's image, not the Research Module... The Research Module is docked to the Zvezda Module on this image...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/19/2006 04:52 am
It makes sense that Russia would want to dock the MLM to the Zvezda module if they are planning to salavage their portion of the ISS. Since the MLM is basically a referbished Zarya (FGB 2) it could provide it's own power as well as increased additude control.

@ anik you have stated a couple of times in this thread that the RM is not happening. I know I have not been able to find any references to it indicating that it ever got past the planning stage. Is this true? Do you happen to know if any hardware ever got developed past the planning stage on the Enterprise Module?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 07/19/2006 11:10 am
Quote
Norm Hartnett - 19/7/2006  12:39 AM

It makes sense that Russia would want to dock the MLM to the Zvezda module if they are planning to salavage their portion of the ISS. Since the MLM is basically a referbished Zarya (FGB 2) it could provide it's own power as well as increased additude control.

@ anik you have stated a couple of times in this thread that the RM is not happening. I know I have not been able to find any references to it indicating that it ever got past the planning stage. Is this true? Do you happen to know if any hardware ever got developed past the planning stage on the Enterprise Module?

No hardware for Enterprise Module.  Never got past planning.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/20/2006 04:28 pm
Quote
Jim - 19/7/2006  5:57 AM

No hardware for Enterprise Module.  Never got past planning.

I suspected that.

Hum, Zvedza plus Piers plus MLM might make a core for a small station if they can cut it loose from the remaining doomed US section. If they can figure out how to dock a Bigelow BA330 to it that would give them some flexibility for internal space and backup life support (assuming that the BA330s develop as specified and ITAR doesn't rear its ugly head).

If I remember right there was quite a bit of hardware development done for the NEP. Perhaps something could be done with that hardware.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 07/20/2006 04:31 pm

The Russian segment would be older than MIR.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/20/2006 05:47 pm
Quote
Jim - 20/7/2006  11:18 AM


The Russian segment would be older than MIR.

Well, that's not so good. So much for trying to salvage anything from ISS after 2016.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Waterfalldescender on 08/02/2006 02:51 am
I understand the  construction delay with ISS, but only to utilize the full completed station for six years 2016 is a tremendous waste of resources, imo. If it is scheduled to be complete in 2010.

 


Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 08/02/2006 08:35 am
Quote
Waterfalldescender - 1/8/2006  10:38 PM

I understand the  construction delay with ISS, but only to utilize the full completed station for six years 2016 is a tremendous waste of resources, imo. If it is scheduled to be complete in 2010.


Tell that to NASA. Their budget requires to elminate a larger line item in 2015+ to sustain their Moon program (ISS operations in 2015 will cost NASA about 2.5 billion a year). That's the reason they are sticking to the original program end of 2016 that was set in the 1990s. Back then the ISS completion date was 2002 - so a fully functional ISS would have been used for nearly 15 years.

Besides, as has been mentioned on this board numerous times modules have a certain design lifetime. Same as for any other complex machine on Earth after some 15-20 years in orbit modules are old and the question remains if it is still save and economically reasonable (maintenance) to use them.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 08/02/2006 08:42 am
Quote
Norm Hartnett - 20/7/2006  12:15 PM

Quote
Jim - 19/7/2006  5:57 AM

No hardware for Enterprise Module.  Never got past planning.

I suspected that.

Hum, Zvedza plus Piers plus MLM might make a core for a small station if they can cut it loose from the remaining doomed US section. If they can figure out how to dock a Bigelow BA330 to it that would give them some flexibility for internal space and backup life support (assuming that the BA330s develop as specified and ITAR doesn't rear its ugly head).

If I remember right there was quite a bit of hardware development done for the NEP. Perhaps something could be done with that hardware.

An undocked Russian segment consisting of Zvedza, Pirs and the MLM will need a service module replacement for Zarya, not a large inflatable Bigelow module (what would they use it for except for storage?). An inflatable Bigelow module will not be able to take over the function of Zarya + the Russian government won't pay a foreign private company for a space module if it can pay a Russian private company paying Russian corporate taxes and employing Russian personal to build a new module (all countries follow that philosophy in space related business).
Title: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Danderman on 10/25/2006 03:34 pm
The Energia web site shows the ISS Russian segment in this configuration:

http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/iss/im/rus-segment.jpg

with the FGB-2 docked to Service Module nadir, and some new module docked to FGB Nadir. However, other sources have reported that FGB-2 will be docked to FGB nadir. So, which is it?

If FGB-2 is docked to Service Module nadir, the Pirs docking compartment will have to be moved to Service Module zenith? How will that be done? When will that be done?

This image:

http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/im/public_07-01_09.jpg

shows a Soyuz docked to the Pirs compartment located on Service Module zenith, whereas the other image shows solar arrays on top of Pirs, so which is the currently planned configuration?

Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: nacnud on 10/25/2006 05:44 pm
The FGB Nadir is only available until 2009 after that Node 3 will be installed and docking of a module there will be blocked, as the arriving module can't fly that close it.

The Russian solar pannels on Zenith SM have been cancelled.

So the FGB-2 now known as the MLM has to arrive at the Nadir FGB port before node 3.

ERA can then move Pirs, and free up space for the RM.

I've no idea how they plan to move Pirs if they miss the 2009 deadline.
Title: RE: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Suzy on 10/26/2006 03:27 am
Energiya needs to update that diagram!
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Danderman on 10/26/2006 05:34 am
Are you sure that the MLM/FGS-2 is planned to dock with FGB Nadir and not Service Module nadir???

Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: nacnud on 10/27/2006 02:29 pm
How can the MLM dock with the SM nadir when that is currently occupied by Pirs?

Plus Nadir SM is a Hybrid docking port, nadir FGB is a cone and drogue. Find what kind of port the MLM will have and there is your answer.
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Spirit on 10/27/2006 05:19 pm
Pirs will be moved from the nadir to the zenith port.
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Spirit on 10/27/2006 05:26 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipurpose_Laboratory_Module

The Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) will be a component of the International Space Station funded by the Russian Federal Space Agency that will replace the Universal Docking Module. In August 2004 it was decided that the MLM would be built from the modified Khrunichev-built Functional Cargo Block (FGB-2), whose construction has been halted at 70-percent complete since the late 90's. The FGB-2 was originally made as a backup for the original launch of the Zarya module, and as early as 1997 it was planned to be used as the Universal Docking Module (UDM) [1]. The Russian Federal Space Agency has said the MLM should be ready for launch in 2007 on a Russian Proton rocket.

There was an alternate, rejected proposal for the MLM from RKK Energia based on the cancelled Commercial Enterprise Module (which was joinly funded by RKK Energia and SPACEHAB).

The MLM will be used for experiments, docking and cargo. It will also serve as a crew work and rest area. MLM will also be equipped with an altitude control system that can be used as a backup by the ISS. It will be docked onto the Zarya control module side docking port. Also the European Robotic Arm will be launched together with MLM, mated on its surface for a later deployment in space.
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Danderman on 10/27/2006 06:12 pm
This is a nice wikipedia entry, but it is not a definitive answer to question of where the FGB-2 will dock with ISS.
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Jorge on 10/28/2006 05:48 pm
Quote
nacnud - 27/10/2006  9:12 AM

Plus Nadir SM is a Hybrid docking port, nadir FGB is a cone and drogue. Find what kind of port the MLM will have and there is your answer.

FGB had a male hybrid on the aft port. FGB-2, originally built as a backup to FGB, had the same. When FGB-2 was planned to dock to FGB nadir (which has female probe-and-drogue), the FGB aft interface would have needed to switch to male probe-and-drogue. Now that docking FGB-2 to SM nadir is under consideration, FGB-2 will need male hybrid again. I don't know if they ever accomplished the first switch, so that could mean leaving FGB-2 as-is in the original config, or needing to switch it back to the original config.

p.s. It's either "probe and drogue" or "probe and cone"... "cone and drogue" is just... too deviant... to think about. :)
--
JRF
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Danderman on 10/28/2006 06:15 pm
Does this imply that the final resting place of FGB-2 is still up in the air?  In other words, no final decision has been made?

BTW, I always thought that switching between probe and cone, and the hybrid docking port ON THE GROUND was not that difficult to accomplish, the bolt patterns for the interface with the vehicle were perhaps identical.
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Jorge on 10/28/2006 06:35 pm
Quote
Danderman - 28/10/2006  12:58 PM

Does this imply that the final resting place of FGB-2 is still up in the air?  In other words, no final decision has been made?

BTW, I always thought that switching between probe and cone, and the hybrid docking port ON THE GROUND was not that difficult to accomplish, the bolt patterns for the interface with the vehicle were perhaps identical.

I'm not aware of any final decision.

You're correct; switching interfaces is not that difficult. So even if FGB-2 had already been switched to P&D for docking to FGB nadir, it's no big deal to switch it back for docking with SM nadir.
--
JRF
Title: MLM news
Post by: anik on 11/21/2006 05:20 pm
http://www.energia.ru/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-11-21.html (in Russian)

RSC Energia has received the order from Russian Federal Space Agency (Roskosmos) for creation of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM)...

The state contract on performing of works in 2007 on creation of MLM was signed by heads of Roskosmos Anatoly Perminov and RSC Energia Nikolay Sevastyanov on November 3, 2006...

RSC Energia is the general contractor of these works...

The launch of MLM is planned in 2009...
Title: Re: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: sammie on 11/23/2006 11:05 am
More information on the proces of outfittin the FGB-2 can be found in this  news article (http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=11008444&PageNum=3)
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: anik on 11/24/2006 03:07 pm
These images of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) were published on Novosti kosmonavtiki forum...
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: eeergo on 11/24/2006 04:12 pm
What do the colors mean in the last attached graphic?

At last this module is being built! I wish a great success to this project. Are there the same hopes for the RM?
Title: RE: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Olaf on 12/11/2006 05:34 am
Here http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-12-06.html you can find an intersting press release.
Title: RE: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: lmike on 12/11/2006 07:23 am
Thanks for the link.  This: "...The need to deploy a Russian satellite system for controlling and monitoring space missions becomes more urgent.  ..." is very interesting.  
Is the LUCH-2 system going to be finally deployed?  Lack of relays and 24 hr coverage, and the (limited) reliance on the US TDRSS for the telemetry/control is a current bottleneck for Energia, AFAIK. with the crew expansion and increased inbound traffic and dockings post 2010.  There are currently inconvenient ground station zone based limitations on telemetry&command uploads for the Progresses/Souyzes(although, there have been some rumors of affixing commercial transponders and leasing some GSO comm. sats bandwidth as an alternative to the Luch program, is that still on?)
Title: RE: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: anik on 12/11/2006 08:18 pm
Quote
lmike - 11/12/2006  11:06 AM

Is the LUCH-2 system going to be finally deployed?

According to interview of the general director of NPO PM Nikolay Testoedov in Novosti kosmonavtiki magazine (October 2006), the launch of Luch-5A satellite-retransmitter is planned in 2009...
Title: RE: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: lmike on 12/12/2006 11:20 am
Thanks for this info; that's great.
Title: RE: Russian Segment configuration
Post by: Danderman on 12/13/2006 04:23 pm
Quote
anik - 11/12/2006  1:01 PM

Quote
lmike - 11/12/2006  11:06 AM

Is the LUCH-2 system going to be finally deployed?

According to interview of the general director of NPO PM Nikolay Testoedov in Novosti kosmonavtiki magazine (October 2006), the launch of Luch-5A satellite-retransmitter is planned in 2009...


Experience has shown that no dates are firm until and unless the Federal Space Agency provides them, along with a funding commitment.

Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Gerald Andrew Richli on 01/18/2007 02:24 pm
Hello! There is going to be a meeting of space agencies, including Roscosmos in Paris on Jan 23, 2007. Will there be an update and status briefing on Multipurpose Laboratory Modules to be launched on mission 3R?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: nacnud on 01/18/2007 04:28 pm
Great images thanks. Isn't this module mostly built already in the form of the FGB 2? Good to know that they are working towards the 2009 deadline when Node 3 arrives and blocks the port this module is planning to occupy. I hope they make it.

PS English link (http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-11-21.html)
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Suzy on 01/18/2007 06:50 pm
FGB-based Multipurpose Lab Module (MLM) (http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev_eng/live/full_mks.asp?id=13190) at the Khrunichev site
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: anik on 01/18/2007 07:31 pm
Quote
nacnud - 18/1/2007  8:28 PM

Good to know that they are working towards the 2009 deadline when Node 3 arrives and blocks the port this module is planning to occupy

There is not "the 2009 deadline", because the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) will dock to the nadir port of Zvezda module (Pirs module will be relocated to the zenith port of Zvezda module before that)... We shall use the nadir port of Zarya module for Soyuz/Progress dockings only in the future... The changing of the docking port for MLM will be discussed during the meeting of Heads of Space agencies in Paris on January 23, 2007...
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: nacnud on 01/18/2007 08:51 pm
How do you move Pirs? I thought it was to be moved by ERA, which arrives with the MLM.
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Gerald Andrew Richli on 01/18/2007 09:00 pm
Probably by Canadarm II or SSRMS and new attached PDGF on Pirs.
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: nacnud on 01/18/2007 09:12 pm
Can they reach? Zvezda is 13m long and the SSRMS is 17m, are there PDGF within reach? Plus there are the solar panels etc to work around and the extra distance needed to go from nadir to zenith, however Zvezdas panels should be retracted by then. Can the SSRMS provide enough force to activate the docking system when at full reach?

I think I remember something about using the SSRMS for this before but not directly from NASA or the Russians.
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: bobthemonkey on 01/18/2007 10:18 pm
Anoother point is whether the SSRMS provides enough force to engage the latches for the docking mechanism. Is docking to progress, undocking, and doing afly around is a viable proposition for module relocation. After all pirs was delivered to the ISS using a progress propulsion module. Saying that, i'm sure that such a procedure would be a last resort.
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Gerald Andrew Richli on 01/23/2007 07:12 pm
Hello! Has there been any updates on the Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module during January 23 ISS meeting?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Riley1066 on 01/23/2007 09:46 pm
Couldn't you relocate PIRS using a Soyuz? Have part of the crew inside the station to close the hatch and decouple Pirs from Zvezda, then back Pirs off using the thrusters on the soyuz, treating Pirs like an oversized second Orbital Module?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Mark Nguyen on 01/24/2007 07:23 pm
I think the logistics of simply plugging a Soyuz into Pirs and moving it manually are a lot tougher than what you or I imagine. For starters, I'm sure that there would have to be specialized connections between the Soyuz and Pirs to allow for it to become an active end docking component. This in turn may require a spacewalk or two, customized components, etc. Plus, for a manual docking I'm sure the Soyuz pilot would not be able to see anything without a special camera or two being mounted. As I recall, Pirs was originally not meant to be moved during its stay, but jettisoned after a few years with a second Pirs module being added later. The original lifetime of the first Pirs module was supposed to be five years, which has since passed.

In any case, the moving of Pirs has been in the works for at least a couple years now, if the assembly animations are any indication. They certainly have a way to do it, most likely with the arm and a specialized grapple fixture that will have to be added via spacewalk, but they just haven't told use how or when yet. :)

Mark
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Gerald Andrew Richli on 01/24/2007 11:44 pm
Any update on Russian Multipurpose Lab Module?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: tesheiner on 01/25/2007 08:51 am
Quote
anik - 18/1/2007  9:31 PM
There is not "the 2009 deadline", because the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) will dock to the nadir port of Zvezda module (Pirs module will be relocated to the zenith port of Zvezda module before that)... We shall use the nadir port of Zarya module for Soyuz/Progress dockings only in the future... The changing of the docking port for MLM will be discussed during the meeting of Heads of Space agencies in Paris on January 23, 2007...

There is still something I don't understand.
The reason for that "2009 deadline" was the arrival of Node 3, making the clearances very tight to dock a spacecraft at Zarya nadir after Node 3 arrival.
I thought that such clearance reduction would prevent *any* spacecraft to dock at Zarya nadir, but from the answer above it looks like there would be still enough clearance to dock a Soyuz or Progress there once Node 3 is installed at Node 1 nadir. Is that correct?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: nathan.moeller on 01/25/2007 01:25 pm
I believe that's correct.  However, I was unaware of (or possibly oblivious to) the fact that the Universal Docking Module (UDM) had been cancelled, if that is indeed the case.  It was supposed to be docked to the nadir port of Zarya and provide an extended port for Soyuz dockings.  Any details?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Gerald Andrew Richli on 02/17/2007 12:35 pm
Perhaps the cancled Enterprise mode could be reinstated by NASA, ESA, JAXA, RKA and launched by Proton rocket on mission 9R around 2011?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Jim on 02/17/2007 02:25 pm
Quote
Gerald Andrew Richli - 17/2/2007  8:35 AM

Perhaps the cancled Enterprise mode could be reinstated by NASA, ESA, JAXA, RKA and launched by Proton rocket on mission 9R around 2011?


It was never "instated"  It was just a certain company's pipe dream.  Nothing more than some power point charts
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 02/17/2007 02:36 pm
What about this Russian Research Module (RM) that is supposedly to be placed on Zarya's nadir port?

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: anik on 02/17/2007 03:23 pm
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 17/2/2007  6:36 PM

What about this Russian Research Module (RM) that is supposedly to be placed on Zarya's nadir port?

We are not going now to dock any module to the nadir port of the Zarya module... Instead of the Research module, in the far future we plan to build two small Research modules, which will be docked to the node module, which will be docked to the Multipurpose Laboratory Module...
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: Gerald Andrew Richli on 02/17/2007 04:16 pm
Hello Anik. Would you like to post a diagram of the latest Russian segment plan showing the Multipurpose Laboratory Module, the Node Module and the 2 small research modules?
Title: Re: MLM news
Post by: anik on 02/19/2007 07:29 pm
Quote
Gerald Andrew Richli - 17/2/2007  8:16 PM

Would you like to post a diagram of the latest Russian segment plan showing the Multipurpose Laboratory Module, the Node Module and the 2 small research modules?

I have published already the latest configuration of the Russian segment here (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2881&start=56)...

Explanation to the image: the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) is docked to the nadir port of the Zvezda Service Module, the Node module (UM) with six ports is docked to MLM, two small Research Modules (IM-1 and IM-2) are docked to UM, two small Science Power Platforms (NEP-1 and NEP-2) are docked to IM-1 and IM-2 accordingly...

My note: all messages from "MLM news" and "Russian Segment configuration" threads are moved into "Russian Segment" thread
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: sammie on 04/17/2007 09:41 pm
I understand from the DCM thread that the MLM has been postponed to 2010 or 2011, at least after DCM delivery by Shuttle :(
Is this assumption correct?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 04/18/2007 05:46 am
I have a little question here:
How will they move Pirs to Zwesda zenit without the European robotic arm (ERA) ???  
I mean ERA ist mounted to the MLM and Pirs has to move, before MLM docks. Or can that be done with the Strela robotic arm?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 04/18/2007 08:20 am
I've asked that over and over, apparently the SSRMS can reach over from Unity (node 1) although I've yet to see any evidence of this.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 04/18/2007 02:32 pm
Quote
sammie - 18/4/2007  1:41 AM

Is this assumption correct?

Yes...

Quote
MSSpace - 18/4/2007  9:46 AM

How will they move Pirs to Zwesda zenit without the European robotic arm (ERA)?

With the helping of SSRMS... The grapple fixture should be installed onto Pirs before that...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: DaveS on 04/18/2007 02:47 pm
Quote
nacnud - 18/4/2007  10:20 AM
I've asked that over and over, apparently the SSRMS can reach over from Unity (node 1) although I've yet to see any evidence of this.
Well, it could if there was a Power and Data Grapple Fixture on it. But there isn't. There's not even a provisions for installing one on it. But what it does have is a standard mechanical RMS grapple fixture.

The SSRMS require an PDGF if it is going to used as a base of operations. The SSRMS is too short to reach Pirs from the Destiny PDGF.

Anik: Is there any plans to install a PDGF on either Unity or Zarya? If there isn't, then the whole "SSRMS-relocate-Pirs" plan is a big no-no.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 04/18/2007 03:14 pm
Quote
DaveS - 18/4/2007  6:47 PM

Is there any plans to install a PDGF on either Unity or Zarya?

I did not hear about it for now...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 04/18/2007 03:19 pm
Just a theory: If a Sojus docks to Pirs and Pirs is undocked from the Station, could the Sojus fly it round to the zenit position manually???  :o

Maybe they add a PGDF to the new CDM and launch it before the MLM. Then the SSRMS may reach Pirs...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MKremer on 04/18/2007 03:27 pm
Quote
DaveS - 18/4/2007  9:47 AM
The SSRMS require an PDGF if it is going to used as a base of operations. The SSRMS is too short to reach Pirs from the Destiny PDGF.

Anik: Is there any plans to install a PDGF on either Unity or Zarya? If there isn't, then the whole "SSRMS-relocate-Pirs" plan is a big no-no.
Wasn't there a plan to eventually install a PDGF on Z1?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 04/18/2007 07:13 pm

Quote
DaveS - 18/4/2007  7:47 AM  
Quote
nacnud - 18/4/2007  10:20 AM I've asked that over and over, apparently the SSRMS can reach over from Unity (node 1) although I've yet to see any evidence of this.
Well, it could if there was a Power and Data Grapple Fixture on it. But there isn't. There's not even a provisions for installing one on it. But what it does have is a standard mechanical RMS grapple fixture.  The SSRMS require an PDGF if it is going to used as a base of operations. The SSRMS is too short to reach Pirs from the Destiny PDGF.  Anik: Is there any plans to install a PDGF on either Unity or Zarya? If there isn't, then the whole "SSRMS-relocate-Pirs" plan is a big no-no.

 FGB is scarred for a PGDF.  I believe that Node 3 will also support PGDF. I also believe that there is a PGDF in storage at the station.

 I doubt that NASA would sign up to the latest ISS configuration without the capability to move Pirs to Service Module zenith port.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 04/18/2007 07:32 pm
Quote
Danderman - 18/4/2007  8:13 PM

I doubt that NASA would sign up to the latest ISS configuration without the capability to move Pirs to Service Module zenith port.


This is my thinking too, it's the details that are lacking :( but I'm sure there is a straightforward answer.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Analyst on 04/19/2007 06:50 am
Maybe they launch the DCM with a PDGR?

Analyst
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 04/19/2007 11:39 am
Quote
Analyst - 19/4/2007  2:50 AM

Maybe they launch the DCM with a PDGR?

Analyst

Which would mean that the MLM will not be launched before 2010 / STS-131. This however begs the question why earlier presentations show the relocation of Pirs without the DCM module attached to the ISS, i.e. they were aware of the problem that Pirs needs to be relocated for a long time and should have thought about solving it.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 04/19/2007 12:23 pm
Aren't there any other solutions of moving Pirs beside the SSRMS? Pirs isn't that heavy. Can't they use the Strela, the Shuttle, a Soyus or anything else?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 04/19/2007 12:28 pm
Quote
MSSpace - 19/4/2007  8:23 AM
Can't they use the Strela, the Shuttle, a Soyus or anything else?

Too heavy for the Strela and how would the shuttle attach to it?  or the Soyus?  

I don't think "we" need to figure it out.  ISS program has many engineer and they will figure it out and get paid for it.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 04/19/2007 12:54 pm
Found the info

P6 PDGF is going to be relocated to the FGB during Stage 1J

DC1 will be moved from from SM nadir to SM zenith using the SSRMS during Stage ULF2
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 04/19/2007 01:33 pm
Yay, thank you Jim.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 04/19/2007 01:34 pm
Now we got it! ThanX Jim...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 04/19/2007 05:35 pm
Quote
Jim - 19/4/2007  8:54 AM

Found the info

P6 PDGF is going to be relocated to the FGB during Stage 1J

DC1 will be moved from from SM nadir to SM zenith using the SSRMS during Stage ULF2

A mystery revealed that people on this board have wondered about for months. Thank you Jim.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 04/19/2007 06:10 pm
This forum just wouldn't be the same without you ;)  Thanks Jim
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 04/19/2007 07:33 pm
Just needed to look around a bit.  Haven't looked into ISS stuff much lately.  Mostly focused on ELV's and their spacecraft
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: yinzer on 04/19/2007 08:03 pm
Am I imagining things, or do the modules have to be brought together with more force than the SSRMS can provide to trip the docking mechanisms?  Will they use thrusters on these modules to assist like they did when docking Node 1 to the ODS during the first shuttle flight?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: DaveS on 04/19/2007 08:40 pm
Quote
yinzer - 19/4/2007  10:03 PM

Am I imagining things, or do the modules have to be brought together with more force than the SSRMS can provide to trip the docking mechanisms?  Will they use thrusters on these modules to assist like they did when docking Node 1 to the ODS during the first shuttle flight?
Well, the reason for the ODS push onto PMA-2 was because, PMA-2 required the force of an actual docking to engage properly with the ODS.

I suspect, the same is true for Pirs, it needs a good slam into the docking port of Zvezda to engage properly. The US/Japanese/European modules lets the berthing mechanism pull togheter the modules instead of having them slam into the module with a good deal of force.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 04/19/2007 11:25 pm
Quote
yinzer - 19/4/2007  4:03 PM

Am I imagining things, or do the modules have to be brought together with more force than the SSRMS can provide to trip the docking mechanisms?  Will they use thrusters on these modules to assist like they did when docking Node 1 to the ODS during the first shuttle flight?

That is an artifact of the APAS.  It needs a minimum force.  CBM's don't need any or prefer none
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jorge on 04/20/2007 12:52 am
Quote
Jim - 19/4/2007  6:25 PM

Quote
yinzer - 19/4/2007  4:03 PM

Am I imagining things, or do the modules have to be brought together with more force than the SSRMS can provide to trip the docking mechanisms?  Will they use thrusters on these modules to assist like they did when docking Node 1 to the ODS during the first shuttle flight?

That is an artifact of the APAS.  It needs a minimum force.  CBM's don't need any or prefer none

Pirs doesn't use a CBM, though - it uses a hybrid probe & drogue to dock with Zvezda.
--
JRF
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 04/20/2007 01:13 am
Quote
Jorge - 19/4/2007  8:52 PM

Quote
Jim - 19/4/2007  6:25 PM

Quote
yinzer - 19/4/2007  4:03 PM

Am I imagining things, or do the modules have to be brought together with more force than the SSRMS can provide to trip the docking mechanisms?  Will they use thrusters on these modules to assist like they did when docking Node 1 to the ODS during the first shuttle flight?

That is an artifact of the APAS.  It needs a minimum force.  CBM's don't need any or prefer none

Pirs doesn't use a CBM, though - it uses a hybrid probe & drogue to dock with Zvezda.
--
JRF

Never said it did
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jorge on 04/20/2007 01:27 am
Quote
Jim - 19/4/2007  8:13 PM

Quote
Jorge - 19/4/2007  8:52 PM

Quote
Jim - 19/4/2007  6:25 PM

Quote
yinzer - 19/4/2007  4:03 PM

Am I imagining things, or do the modules have to be brought together with more force than the SSRMS can provide to trip the docking mechanisms?  Will they use thrusters on these modules to assist like they did when docking Node 1 to the ODS during the first shuttle flight?

That is an artifact of the APAS.  It needs a minimum force.  CBM's don't need any or prefer none

Pirs doesn't use a CBM, though - it uses a hybrid probe & drogue to dock with Zvezda.
--
JRF

Never said it did

Not saying you did - just clarifying the context for the benefit of the folks following the discussion about Pirs relocation...
--
JRF
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Olaf on 07/13/2007 02:50 pm
According to this statement from today http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2325, the lauch of the MLM is planned in 2009.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 11/19/2007 03:22 pm
According to http://www.rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20071119/88676991.html (in Russian), the First Deputy of General Director of RSC Energia Yevgeniy Mikrin has announced new plan of launches of modules for the Russian segment:

2009 - Small Research Module No. 2 (MIM-2) - weight 4 tonnes
2010 - Small Research Module No. 1 (MIM-1, former DCM) - weight about 8 tonnes
2011 - Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM)
2012 - Node Module (UM)
2014 - two Science-Power Modules Nos. 1 and 2 (NEM-1, NEM-2)

Plans, plans, plans...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 11/19/2007 04:05 pm
Quote
anik - 19/11/2007  5:22 PM

According to http://www.rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20071119/88676991.html (in Russian), the First Deputy of General Director of RSC Energia Yevgeniy Mikrin has announced new plan of launches of modules for the Russian segment:

2009 - Small Research Module No. 2 (MIM-2) - weight 4 tonnes
2010 - Small Research Module No. 1 (MIM-1, former DCM) - weight about 8 tonnes
2011 - Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM)
2012 - Node Module (UM)
2014 - two Science-Power Modules Nos. 1 and 2 (NEM-1, NEM-2)

Plans, plans, plans...

The Docking Cargo Module is now to become a Small Research Module.

Guess this module is one, which can not afford any delays, because the Shuttle will be gone, if this module is delayed (regardless what name or fuction it will have).

I will start to believe this plans when they bend some metal for the modules, not when they are announced.


Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 11/19/2007 07:02 pm
Well, but if they're planning to launch SRM2 before SRM1/DCM, these two are more or less 'sure' to be launched (as they appear quite serious with DCM and part of the hardware is already built). MLM also appears quite firm in the schedule, IMHO; so can we talk with some certainty one 'extra' module from the previously planned is joining the ISS? Where would it be berthed to?

Those three new modules (UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2) sound a bit 'hopeful' to me, but you never know... Would those follow that fabolously optimistic configuration of the RS, with lots of modules springing nadir-wise, shown by Energia some time ago?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: brahmanknight on 11/19/2007 07:32 pm
Is there a reason that the service module wasn't built with starboard and port docking ports like the Mir base block?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 11/19/2007 07:53 pm
Quote
eeergo - 19/11/2007  9:02 PM

Those three new modules (UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2) sound a bit 'hopeful' to me, but you never know... Would those follow that fabolously optimistic configuration of the RS, with lots of modules springing nadir-wise, shown by Energia some time ago?

I think, it was this configuration published las year, which matches pretty good the description, but the MIM (SRM) might be smaller as the depicted version.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 12/03/2007 08:25 pm
Quote
brahmanknight - 19/11/2007  8:32 PM

Is there a reason that the service module wasn't built with starboard and port docking ports like the Mir base block?

Maybe because they're not needed? It would be easier and less time consuming just to leave them I suppose...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MKremer on 12/03/2007 08:34 pm
Quote
brahmanknight - 19/11/2007  2:32 PM

Is there a reason that the service module wasn't built with starboard and port docking ports like the Mir base block?

Useless extra time & expenses since they'd never be able to be used (too many other things like solar wings in the way).
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: station55 on 12/05/2007 02:10 pm
......"I will start to believe this plans when they bend some metal for the modules, not when they are announced".....

---------------------


Exactly,

All this you may put among bard's tales. Russians have major problems with next modules to be launched, probably in 2009 i.e. MLM.... I'm not such kid to believe the plans which are just far from reach for RKA.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 12/08/2007 10:11 pm

Quote
brahmanknight - 19/11/2007  12:32 PM  Is there a reason that the service module wasn't built with starboard and port docking ports like the Mir base block?

AFAIK, the ISS system spec prohibits docking approaches from the Z vector, and so these ports could not be used.

 

Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 12/23/2007 07:00 pm
Today I have been told about proposed plan of construction of Russian segment of ISS:

2009 - Launch of Research Module No. 1 (IM1) by Soyuz rocket and docking to the zenith port of Zvezda module (IM1 will be based on Docking Compartment No. 2)
2010 - Launch of Research Module No. 2 (IM2) by Space Shuttle (STS-131) and docking to the nadir port of Zarya module (IM2 will be based on Docking Cargo Module)
2011 - Undocking and deorbit of Pirs module by Progress cargo ship, launch of Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) by Proton rocket and docking to the nadir port of Zvezda module
2013 - Launch of Node Module (UM) by Soyuz rocket and docking to MLM
2014 - Launch of Science-Power Module No. 1 (NEM1) and docking to the nadir port of UM, then its relocation to the side port of UM by own manipulator
2014 - Launch of Research Module No. 3-1 (IM3-1) and docking to the nadir port of UM, then its relocation to the side port of UM by own manipulator, then NEM1 relocation to IM3-1 by ERA manipulator
2015 - Launch of Research Module No. 3-2 (IM3-2) and docking to the nadir port of UM, then its relocation to the side port of UM by own manipulator
2015 - Launch of Science-Power Module No. 2 (NEM2) and docking to the nadir port of UM, then its relocation to IM3-2 by ERA manipulator

The offered plan allows solving a number of technical questions:
1. IM1 can be used as a cabin for the third member of Russian crew;
2. The problem of the further prolongation of service life of Pirs module disappears;
3. Launches of UM, NEM-1, NEM-2, IM3-1 and IM3-2 modules will allow to provide:
a) Expanded use of Russian segment after 2015, when NASA will stop supply Russian segment by the electric power;
b) Further development of Russian segment as constantly operating piloted orbital base for interplanetary flights, including at absence of American segment
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Stephan on 12/23/2007 07:19 pm
Thanks for the info Anik, I have a few question, which module will replace Pirs for russian EVA ?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 12/23/2007 07:36 pm
Quote
Stephan - 23/12/2007  11:19 PM

which module will replace Pirs for russian EVA?

Obviously IM1... It is similar to Pirs...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: AnlaShok on 12/24/2007 12:39 am
Quote
anik - 23/12/2007  10:00 PM
b) Further development of Russian segment as constantly operating piloted orbital base for interplanetary flights, including at absence of American segment

Doesn't that mean de-orbiting the US(/ESA/JAXA/Canadarm) segment? Including Zarya, isn't it part of the US segment? How's that possible? What does Jim think of that?

So they're suggesting building a huge Russian space station on the base of the ISS. If Zarya isn't included and Pirs is dumped, they only save Zvezda. I think it would be more practical to build a brand new station, maybe on a different orbit, like Mir-2 that would have been on an orbit more suitable for launches from Plesetsk. On an orbit more suitable for lunar flights.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 12/24/2007 03:34 am
How will IM1 dock with Zvezda zenith port, if there are no Kurs antennas there?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 12/24/2007 02:10 pm
Quote
AnlaShok - 24/12/2007  4:39 AM

Doesn't that mean de-orbiting the US(/ESA/JAXA/Canadarm) segment?

Yes...

Quote
AnlaShok - 24/12/2007  4:39 AM

Including Zarya, isn't it part of the US segment?

Zarya module is part of the Russian segment...

Quote
Danderman - 24/12/2007  7:34 AM

How will IM1 dock with Zvezda zenith port, if there are no Kurs antennas there?

There are three complete sets of antennas (AR-VKA, 2AR-VKA, 4AO-VKA) of Kurs system for three docking ports (forward, zenith, nadir) on Transfer Compartment (PkhO) of Zvezda module...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 12/24/2007 02:37 pm

If there are Kurs antennas on Zvezda zenith, that is big news (especially to the ISSPO). From this photo:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/assembly/hires/sts105-707-019.jpg

you can see that there are no Kurs antennas on Zvezda zenith (at least none that face away from the port in a useful direction). There are external panels to add connectors for Kurs, but this would require an EVA.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 12/24/2007 02:51 pm
Anik, didn't the US pay for Zarya?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 12/24/2007 03:59 pm
Quote
Danderman - 24/12/2007  6:37 PM

If there are Kurs antennas on Zvezda zenith, that is big news (especially to the ISSPO). From this photo: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/assembly/hires/sts105-707-019.jpg you can see that there are no Kurs antennas on Zvezda zenith (at least none that face away from the port in a useful direction). There are external panels to add connectors for Kurs, but this would require an EVA

Yes, you are right!... I have used information from article about launch of Zvezda module in Novosti kosmonavtiki magazine (Issue 9, 2000)... I am sorry for misinformation...

I have checked this information now using STS-92 EVA Checklist (see four images below)...

Quote
bobthemonkey - 24/12/2007  6:51 PM

didn't the US pay for Zarya?

Yes, but it does not mean Zarya module is part of US segment...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Stan Black on 02/09/2008 02:52 pm
Quote
Danderman - 24/12/2007  9:37 AM

If there are Kurs antennas on Zvezda zenith, that is big news (especially to the ISSPO). From this photo:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/assembly/hires/sts105-707-019.jpg

you can see that there are no Kurs antennas on Zvezda zenith (at least none that face away from the port in a useful direction). There are external panels to add connectors for Kurs, but this would require an EVA.


Some of Kurs has been moved or removed?

Didn't they move Kurs antennas from Mir to Kvant?

Prevents clutter and cost. Dockings to these ports on Zvezda are rare: one to the front, and one to the nadir so far. Cone is also moved?

Stan
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 02/10/2008 03:04 am
Can the hatches on the port and starboard sides of the PKhO be opened?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Patchouli on 02/10/2008 03:39 am
I don't think the ATV or progress' successor parome can dock at that port klipper might be able to though but I think it's just Soyuz and progress if you mean the upper z axis port.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 02/10/2008 10:22 am
If you mean the port and starboard ports on the Service Module (Zvezda) Transfer Compartment then no, they can't be opened. Unlike on MIR there are not any docking mechanisms installed there.

I found a video for you, it shows the Nadir, Zenith and forward ports are there but the port and starboard ports are blanked over. The reason for this is that the station radiators and solar arrays get in the way.

http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/images/iss/1b2.mp2

PS all the ports on the transfer compartment are hybrid ports, only other modules can dock to them not Soyuz, Progress or ATV. There needs to be another module in between like DC1 (Pirs)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 02/10/2008 01:21 pm
Quote
Stan Black - 9/2/2008  6:52 PM

Some of Kurs has been moved or removed?

If you asked about Kurs antennas, which service the zenith port of Zvezda module, then no... No Kurs antennas for this purpose were installed there before or after launch...

Quote
Stan Black - 9/2/2008  6:52 PM

Didn't they move Kurs antennas from Mir to Kvant?

No, Kurs antennas were installed on Kvant before launch...

Quote
Stan Black - 9/2/2008  6:52 PM

Cone is also moved?

Yes, as on Mir... The docking cone for Pirs module was installed on the nadir port of Zvezda module during spacewalk on June 8, 2001...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 02/10/2008 08:17 pm

Quote
nacnud - 10/2/2008  8:22 PM  If you mean the port and starboard ports on the Service Module (Zvezda) Transfer Compartment then no, they can't be opened. Unlike on MIR there are not any docking mechanisms installed there.  I found a video for you, it shows the Nadir, Zenith and forward ports are there but the port and starboard ports are blanked over. The reason for this is that the station radiators and solar arrays get in the way.  http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/images/iss/1b2.mp2  PS all the ports on the transfer compartment are hybrid ports, only other modules can dock to them not Soyuz, Progress or ATV. There needs to be another module in between like DC1 (Pirs)

Thanks, that clarifies things... (Video link didn't work for me though!) Does Zarya have the same docking port configuration?

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 02/10/2008 08:27 pm
Quote
Patchouli - 9/2/2008  11:39 PM
 progress' successor parome

Where is your source for that?  Not a technical source but one stating it is funded and moving forward.

If not, then it isn't real, just like klipper
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 02/10/2008 08:55 pm
Quote
Suzy - 10/2/2008  9:17 PM

Thanks, that clarifies things... (Video link didn't work for me though!) Does Zarya have the same docking port configuration?


No, not really. The transfer compartment on Zarya has a Soyuz type port at Nadir and an APAS for PMA1 on the forward port. The zenith, port and starboard ports are all blanked over.

The video link is in quicktime, if that helps.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 02/10/2008 09:57 pm

Quote
nacnud - 11/2/2008  6:55 AM  No, not really. The transfer compartment on Zarya has a Soyuz type port at Nadir and an APAS for PMA1 on the forward port. The zenith, port and starboard ports are all blanked over.  The video link is in quicktime, if that helps.  

So to summarize...

Zvezda:

+ aft port - ASP-O

Zarya:

+ aft port - ASA-G (Active/Hybrid Docking Assembly)

So Zvezda and Zarya could theoretically have been built with 5 docking ports on their forward spherical ends?

(I can't access the shuttlepresskit.com site at all from where I am!)

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 02/10/2008 10:58 pm
The answer to the last question is: yes, just like Mir, but the ISS system would not allow all ports to be utilized, so unnecessary ports have been blocked.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 02/14/2008 07:39 pm
:o
Quote
Danderman - 23/12/2007  8:34 PM  How will IM1 dock with Zvezda zenith port, if there are no Kurs antennas there?
 ??
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 03/09/2008 09:05 am
Information below is from Increment Definition and Requirements Document for Increment 17 (http://images.spaceref.com/news/2008/incr.17.pdf) and Increment Definition and Requirements Document for Increment 18 (http://images.spaceref.com/news/2008/incr.18.pdf):

1. Preparation to docking of the Docking Cargo Module to the nadir port of Zarya module in STS-131

a) Expedition 17 - Russian EVA-20 - June/July 2008

"Install PDGF Transfer Frame on FGB
Install Video Signal Converter (VSC) Thermal Cover"

b) STS-119 - December 2008

"PDGF Relocation to FGB Tasks [EVA] [Robotics]:
Relocate P6 PDGF from P6 to FGB using SSRMS
Install VSC Video Fiber Cable - Route to FGB
Install PDGF Harness Cable"

"Use SSRMS to checkout the functionality of the PDGF on FGB [IVA] [Robotics]"

2. Preparation to docking of the Docking Compartment No. 2 to the zenith port of Zvezda module in August 2009 (TBD)

Expedition 18 - Russian EVA-21 - December 2008 / January 2009

"Inspection of installation locations for the Kurs target and antennas to support MRM2 docking to the SM zenith port"
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 03/16/2008 04:59 pm
The updated info from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum:

1. PDGF installation to Zarya can be cancelled, because the location of the grapple fixture on DCM has been changed, so SSRMS can be on Destiny during DCM relocation from SRMS to Zarya.

2. The current schedule:

August 2009 - DC2 launch by Soyuz rocket;
March 2010 - DCM launch by Space Shuttle (probably STS-132);
NET middle of 2011 - MLM launch by Proton-M rocket.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 03/16/2008 05:25 pm
We really need an updated Shuttle/Soyuz/Proton lauch schedule!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hektor on 03/16/2008 05:37 pm
I thought STS-132 was Node 3/Cupola ?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 03/16/2008 05:56 pm
Quote
hektor - 16/3/2008  9:37 PM

I thought STS-132 was Node 3/Cupola?

According to this (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12262&start=1) thread, 20A flight, which is carrying Node 3 with Cupola, has been moved up from April 2010 to October 2009, so probably 20A is STS-130 now. Also probably 19A is STS-131 and ULF4 is STS-132 now.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 03/17/2008 07:14 pm
NASA image of current plan of ISS configuration (posted on Novosti kosmonavtiki forum).
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/18/2008 06:07 am
Quote
anik - 17/3/2008  10:14 PM

NASA image of current plan of ISS configuration (posted on Novosti kosmonavtiki forum).

Interesting: The DCM is now MRM-1 (Mini research module) and Pirs is now MRM-2 (or is this Pirs-2?)

Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 03/18/2008 01:51 pm
Quote
Skyrocket - 18/3/2008  10:07 AM

Pirs is now MRM-2 (or is this Pirs-2?)

MRM2 is new Docking Compartment similar to Pirs.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/18/2008 02:15 pm
Quote
anik - 18/3/2008  4:51 PM

MRM2 is new Docking Compartment similar to Pirs.

This means, Pirs will not be relocated, but dumped?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 03/18/2008 02:41 pm
Quote
Skyrocket - 18/3/2008  6:15 PM

This means, Pirs will not be relocated, but dumped?

Yes. Pirs will not be relocated. It will be undocked and deorbited by Progress before MLM arrival in NET middle of 2011.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 03/18/2008 03:38 pm
After MRM1 arrives, is there any chance that Node 3 will be relocated to the nadir port of Unity, or is this new configuration permanent?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hanschristian on 03/19/2008 03:41 am
Yeah, I want to ask that too...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 03/19/2008 05:28 am

Quote
anik - 18/3/2008  6:14 AM  NASA image of current plan of ISS configuration (posted on Novosti kosmonavtiki forum).

Is there a link/URL to a page with the diagram on the NASA site? There is an earlier diagram here , but after hunting around I can't find a page with these diagrams. 

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 03/19/2008 12:55 pm
Quote
After MRM1 arrives, is there any chance that Node 3 will be relocated to the nadir port of Unity, or is this new configuration permanent?

I think Node-3 can't be located to either side of Unity because it would interfere the radiators on the truss in this position. Remember when Columbus was temorarily placed on side of Unity, not all of the radiators could be deployed. This diagram is somehow strange in that point...
MSSpace...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: stockman on 03/19/2008 01:02 pm
Quote
MSSpace - 19/3/2008  9:55 AM

Quote
After MRM1 arrives, is there any chance that Node 3 will be relocated to the nadir port of Unity, or is this new configuration permanent?

I think Node-3 can't be located to either side of Unity because it would interfere the radiators on the truss in this position. Remember when Columbus was temorarily placed on side of Unity, not all of the radiators could be deployed. This diagram is somehow strange in that point...
MSSpace...

You are correct in the clearance issue. The only correction it was Harmony that was temporarily parked, not columbus. :)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hanschristian on 03/19/2008 02:22 pm
I almost forgot about the P-1 radiators... yeah, if Node 3 will be placed on port, then it may, or will impair rotation of the radiators...

Yeah, that graphic is somewhat confusing...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 03/19/2008 02:28 pm
Uh, yea, sorry, of course it was Harmony. Finally they are so fast with the construction that it's confusing. Never mind...

But at least we all agree that Node-3 can't be located on either side of Unity  ;)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 03/19/2008 02:50 pm
Quote
MSSpace - 19/3/2008  11:28 AM

Uh, yea, sorry, of course it was Harmony. Finally they are so fast with the construction that it's confusing. Never mind...

But at least we all agree that Node-3 can't be located on either side of Unity  ;)

Who agrees?  The diagrams is NASA's, they don't agree
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Olaf on 03/19/2008 02:55 pm
You can find it here http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rushan-b/view/41888 .
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: The-Hammer on 03/19/2008 05:26 pm
Quote
hanschristian - 19/3/2008  11:22 AM

I almost forgot about the P-1 radiators... yeah, if Node 3 will be placed on port, then it may, or will impair rotation of the radiators...

I don't think it was an issue of NO clearance, just an issue of TIGHT clearances, especially with the robotics ops that were going on (PMA2 relocate, PMA2+Node2 relocate) and the Node2 outfitting spacewalks. Since those radiators weren't needed yet, it was easier just to leave them retracted until Node2 was relocated.

If Node3 is placed on Node1 port, then they can park the TRRJ when Node3 outfitting spacewalks and any relocation robotics are occuring.

Picture 1 (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-120/hires/s120e008525.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-120/hires/s120e008548.jpg)
Picture 3 (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-120/hires/s120e009804.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 03/19/2008 06:08 pm
I thought you wouldn't be able to see much of Node 3 because of the truss, but after seeing those pictures of Node2 after STS-120, it's actually very visible.

Is MRM1 really needed now? Can Orion be docked to PMA3 on Unity nadir, and a Soyuz on Zarya at the same time, or do we HAVE to have MRM1 as an extension?

And if MRM1 was cancelled (and the russians still wanted the Zarya port for Soyuz) could PMA3 be located to the downward facing port of Node3 once it's attached to Unity port CBM so there is no clearance issues?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 03/19/2008 09:23 pm
Is MRM1 really needed now? Can Orion be docked to PMA3 on Unity nadir, and a Soyuz on Zarya at the same time, or do we HAVE to have MRM1 as an extension?
-----------
You need 4 Russian docking ports to manage the traffic on the Russian side. With a full crew of 6 two ports will always be (at any time) occupied by 2 Soyuz. For crew exchange you need a 3rd port for Soyuz, which only leaves one other port free at some times (for ATV, Progress etc.) BUT only if you get MRM1 or DCM, whatever you want to call it, up to the station.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/21/2008 06:38 pm
If MRM1 is launched and the Node 3 is placed as shown, will there not be clearance issues for Orion if it is to dock at PMA-3?  seems it woulld come into play during orion expedition transfers where there will be two orions at the station at the same time.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: erioladastra on 03/22/2008 10:38 pm
"I think Node-3 can't be located to either side of Unity because it would interfere the radiators on the truss in this position."

Not sure what you are basing that on but that is not correct.  Node 3 will now be on the Port side of Node 1.  There is no clearance issue.

The only clearance issues with Node -2 + PMA2 was deploying the radiators required the FGB arrays to be retracted.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Analyst on 03/23/2008 06:17 am
I know there are cable and fluid trays on S0 to connect Node 3 to the power and cooling system (much as for Node-2). I assume their configuration (dimensions etc.) is independent of where Node-3 is located?

Analyst
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: erioladastra on 03/24/2008 12:06 am
"I assume their configuration (dimensions etc.) is independent of where Node-3 is located? "

Essentially.  In fact the new location makes some of these umbilicals shorter.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 04/16/2008 02:13 pm
Quote
erioladastra - 23/3/2008  1:38 AM
Not sure what you are basing that on but that is not correct.  Node 3 will now be on the Port side of Node 1.  There is no clearance issue.

Are you really sure about that? Ok, I'm not keen on the exact measurements of the ISS-Elements but if I use a ruler on the picture (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-120/hires/s120e009804.jpg) the radiators are very likely to touch Node-2 in this position. Maybe the radiators are not necessarily needed and retracted again for this Node-3 position until the DCM/MRM is installed?
I have learned even if a diagram is provided by NASA that dosn't necessarily mean that it is fact or true :frown:
Greetings,
MSSpace...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Analyst on 04/16/2008 03:53 pm
Quote
MSSpace - 16/4/2008  4:13 PM

1) Are you really sure about that?
2) Ok, I'm not keen on the exact measurements of the ISS-Elements but if I use a ruler on the picture (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-120/hires/s120e009804.jpg) the radiators are very likely to touch Node-2 in this position.
3) Maybe the radiators are not necessarily needed and retracted again for this Node-3 position until the DCM/MRM is installed?

1) Yes.
2) Keep in mind the radiators rotate at a point above the plane of Node 3 (and all other US segment modules exeapt the JEM logistics module). The radiators are on the P1 truss, which is above the lab, hence above Node 2.
3) They are needed and won't be retracted. There is clearance.

Analyst
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Thorny on 04/16/2008 04:57 pm
Quote
mr.columbus - 19/3/2008  5:23 PM

You need 4 Russian docking ports to manage the traffic on the Russian side. With a full crew of 6 two ports will always be (at any time) occupied by 2 Soyuz. For crew exchange you need a 3rd port for Soyuz, which only leaves one other port free at some times (for ATV, Progress etc.) BUT only if you get MRM1 or DCM, whatever you want to call it, up to the station.

Is it absolutely a requirement that the replacement Soyuz arrives before its predecessor departs? The port shortage problem could be solved by simply having the first Soyuz depart before arrival of the second thus freeing its port. That still leaves three crew on board ISS for crew transition/continuity.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: The-Hammer on 04/16/2008 06:31 pm
Quote
Thorny - 16/4/2008  12:57 PM

Quote
mr.columbus - 19/3/2008  5:23 PM

You need 4 Russian docking ports to manage the traffic on the Russian side. With a full crew of 6 two ports will always be (at any time) occupied by 2 Soyuz. For crew exchange you need a 3rd port for Soyuz, which only leaves one other port free at some times (for ATV, Progress etc.) BUT only if you get MRM1 or DCM, whatever you want to call it, up to the station.

Is it absolutely a requirement that the replacement Soyuz arrives before its predecessor departs? The port shortage problem could be solved by simply having the first Soyuz depart before arrival of the second thus freeing its port. That still leaves three crew on board ISS for crew transition/continuity.


It's not an ABSOLUTE requirement, but highly desired. The astronauts arriving in the new Soyuz are taking over the duties of the one's who are about to depart. If both sets of astronauts are there at the same time they can have an in-person handover.

Think about all the times you've taken new jobs or new positions or even just new duties and how much easier that went on those occasions where your predecessor was available to orient you.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: catfry on 04/16/2008 09:19 pm
Could they not simply have three person crews, but where the handover activities took 3 months instead of a week? Ok so you wouldn't call it a handover period, and the crew could be called a six person crew, just with two parts that arrive/depart with three months difference.
So Soyuz departs ISS with half 6 person crew, and immediately get replaced by new Soyuz with new 3 person complement to six person crew, and three months later the other half of original six person crew depart and gets replaced and so on.

It seems to me to be the easiest way to reach almost continuous 6 persons except when the exchange takes place. The flow of launches would also be regular, making it easier on the ground efforts.

Of course it would be a problem to figure out what number to give the expedition...
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: The-Hammer on 04/16/2008 09:42 pm
You still wouldn't have direct handover from one crewman to the next. As I understand it the current plan is as follows:

Starting:

Expedition X
Soyuz 1
CDR Alpha
FE1 Bravo
FE2 Charlie

Soyuz 2
FE3 Delta
FE4 Echo
FE5 Foxtrot


Then Soyuz 3 docks with CDR Gold, FE1 Hotel, and FE2 India.

Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie conduct a week of handover with Gold, Hotel, and India.

Then Soyuz 1 with Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie undocks.

Two months later Soyuz 4 docks with FE3 Juliet, FE4 Kilo, and FE5 Lima.

Delta, Echo, and Foxtrot then conduct a week of handover with Juliet, Kilo, and Lima.

Then Soyuz 2 with Delta, Echo, and Foxtrot undocks.


4 months later Soyuz 5 docks with CDR Mike, FE1 November, and FE2 Oscar and the process repeats.




There's a document on L-2 "Six Crew Strategic Planning Document", that also discusses handover by all 6 crewmen from both the incoming and outgoing Expeditions when there are 4 Russian docking ports available, which would bring the ISS crew to 12 for a week twice a year.




Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: erioladastra on 04/19/2008 04:25 pm
"Are you really sure about that? Ok, I'm not keen on the exact measurements of the ISS-Elements but if I use a ruler on the picture the radiators are very likely to touch Node-2 in this position. Maybe the radiators are not necessarily needed and retracted again for this Node-3 position until the DCM/MRM is installed?
I have learned even if a diagram is provided by NASA that dosn't necessarily mean that it is fact or true"

It is 100% fact.  But I don't see what you mean about hitting the Node 2.  You mean Node 3?  No, the radiators will be clear of the Node 3, even when the cupola is based ont he end code (I don't recall the distance but several feet clear).  However, during berthing and relocation the TRRJs will have to be parked.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: erioladastra on 04/19/2008 04:28 pm
Still being worked out but likely what we will do is that each CDR will only be for 3 months - the first 3 months may be as "deputy" CDR and then when that CDr leaves, they would become CDR and a new deputy would be listed.  All these details are still beign worked out.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: Spirit on 04/29/2008 09:10 pm
How is it going with the future Russian ISS components?

1. What will be launched?
2. At what stage is the development?
3. Any target dates?
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 04/29/2008 09:19 pm
Quote
Spirit - 29/4/2008  5:10 PM

How is it going with the future Russian ISS components?

1. What will be launched?
2. At what stage is the development?
3. Any target dates?

1. Currently the only elements to be launched for sure (at least we know the hardware is real and people are working on it) are the MLM and the MRM-1 aka DCM.
2. The MLM is the old FGB-2, the MRM-1 is based on the old pressurized section of the Russian Science Power Module. Apparently both modules are being worked on already.
3. MLM target date: NET 2011 for Proton (previously NET 2009); MRM-1 target date: NET early 2010 on Shuttle (STS-131)

All other planned future expansions of the Russian section only exist on paper.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 04/30/2008 04:04 am
Quote
Spirit - 30/4/2008  1:10 AM

1. What will be launched?
3. Any target dates?

Is it so difficult to find answers to these questions on one of previous pages (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2881&start=164) of this thread?

August 15, 2009 - the launch of Mini-Research Module no. 2 (MRM-2) [in structure of Progress M-SO2 cargo ship-module] by Soyuz rocket;
April 8, 2010 - the launch of Mini-Research Module no. 1 (MRM-1) by the Space Shuttle Discovery (STS-132);
Not earlier than middle of 2011 - the launch of Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) by Proton-M rocket.

Quote
Spirit - 30/4/2008  1:10 AM

2. At what stage is the development?

MRM-2 and MRM-1 are under construction very intensively at RSC Energia. I was told the body of MRM-2 is already built. The stage of construction of MLM and its future are unknown for me for now.
Title: RE: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 04/30/2008 07:44 am

Good to see MRM-2 is also worked on.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 05/26/2008 03:26 pm
Do the "Mini Research Modules" provide any opportunities for research? Originally these modules were only to provide docking and airlock or docking and stowage space.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 05/26/2008 03:46 pm
Do the "Mini Research Modules" provide any opportunities for research?

Yes, there will be interfaces for connection of scientific equipment in them.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: pm1823 on 06/09/2008 05:30 am
(http://i043.radikal.ru/0806/25/6fac48aa3fdat.jpg) (http://i049.radikal.ru/0806/b2/11d7761722fa.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 06/09/2008 05:36 am
Latest RS ISS concept: see this post (http://orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=22428&postcount=7) on another forum :)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: pm1823 on 06/09/2008 05:42 am
Same source used :) - N-K forum.
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8347&start=0
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: quickshot89 on 06/09/2008 02:10 pm
from what i can see in those pics, the MLM will have a docking module attached to extend the single port into 5 more, and then possibly more large modules attached

pretty sweet if it happens
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 06/10/2008 12:24 am
(http://i043.radikal.ru/0806/25/6fac48aa3fdat.jpg) (http://i049.radikal.ru/0806/b2/11d7761722fa.jpg)

Wow that is quite a ramp up on the Progress launch schedule on top of a doubling of the Soyuz launches. 11 ISS flights a year (7 Progress + 4 Soyuz) in 2010 and 2011 is pretty impressive. Throw in the MLM in 2011 and that's a launch every month. It is going to be quite a contrast to NASA's flight schedule for those years.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 06/10/2008 02:44 am
Hum, the plan shows 5 Progress launches in 2008 and Anik’s Schedule of ISS Flight Events dated 02/02/08 shows;
Quote
2008
February 7 - Progress M-63 docking (to Pirs)
May 16 - Progress M-64 docking (to Pirs)
August 14 - Progress M-65 docking (to Zvezda)
September 12 - Progress M-66 docking (to Pirs)
November 28 - Progress M-67 docking (to Zvezda)
However, by 03/31/08 with M-63 flown this had changed to;
Quote
May 16 - Progress M-64 docking (to Pirs)
August 14 - Progress M-01M docking (to Zvezda)
September 12 - Progress M-65 docking (to Pirs)
November 28 - Progress M-66 docking (to Zvezda)
By 04/19/08 the M-01M flight was moved to November and the August Progress flight was dropped.
Quote
May 16 - Progress M-64 docking (to Pirs)
September 12 - Progress M-65 docking (to Pirs)
November 26 - Progress M-01M launch
With the Progress M-63 and M64 flown that only leaves the M-65 and M-01M to fly for a total of 4 Progress flights instead of the 5 planned.

Anik can you shed any light as to why the August flight was dropped? I assume that the M-01M was shifted to a later date due to development problems but the M-65 was originally scheduled for the August slot and should be ready unless there were production problems.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 06/15/2008 01:31 pm
Latest RS ISS concept: see this post (http://orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=22428&postcount=7) on another forum :)

AFAIK, these are RSC Energia, and not Roskosmos, plans for the future. So, I would not consider these as official dates and projects, but rather what Energia would like to see happen.

 :-X
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 06/15/2008 04:21 pm
I see from this image MRM1, MRM2 and MLM launching as planned, as well as a small node and two new module either side of the node where the small solar arrays are attached on both sides. Does anyone know what these two modules will be used for? I suppose if those UK habitation modules don't get considered seriously then these would be useful for that purpose...

If they can afford it, this extension would be useful as there would be much more room on the russian side and also it allows for 5 Soyuz/Progress docking ports:

1. Zvezda aft port
2. MRM2 zenith port
3. MRM1 nadir port
4. Russian node module nadir port
5. Russian node modulke aft port
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: The-Hammer on 06/15/2008 07:45 pm
All is explained in this post (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg226641#msg226641) on page 10 of this thread.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/15/2008 08:18 pm
Anik can you shed any light as to why the August flight was dropped?

After successful launch and docking of Jules Verne cargo ship Roskosmos has decided to economize one Progress and postponed it to the next year.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 06/15/2008 09:07 pm
All is explained in this post (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg226641#msg226641) on page 10 of this thread.

Ah thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 06/16/2008 08:30 pm
Anik can you shed any light as to why the August flight was dropped?

After successful launch and docking of Jules Verne cargo ship Roskosmos has decided to economize one Progress and postponed it to the next year.

Ha, I was about to post that it was possible that because ATV1 was so successful http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM6IZUG3HF_index_0.html the Progress had been postponed. Good to see that the old gray matter is still semi-functional.

Thanks Anik.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/11/2008 06:20 pm
Some detailed info about MRM-2 is published on http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/306/11.shtml

Mass - 4000 kg
Diameter - 2.6 m
Length - 4.6 m
Pressurized volume - 12.5 cubic meter
Mass of delivered cargoes - up to 1000 kg
Volume for storage of cargoes inside pressurized volume - up to 2.5 cubic meter
One workplace for the scientific equipment on an external surface of the module
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 07/11/2008 09:05 pm
Thanks anik!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 07/12/2008 01:23 am
Is the launch schedule (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg226641#msg226641) on page 10 still relevant? Only part of the NK article is online  :'(

Some detailed info about MRM-2 is published on http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/306/11.shtml
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 07/12/2008 07:39 am
There's some talk about MRM2 on the latest article on NASA.gov about the russian  spacewalks:

"After relaxing a bit Friday, Volkov and Kononenko will prepare their Russian Orlan spacesuits and tools for a second spacewalk on Tuesday, July 15. During the 5.5-hour spacewalk, the spacewalkers will remove and install science experiments, as well as install rendezvous equipment for an upcoming Russian mission. That mission scheduled for next summer will see an automated docking of a Russian airlock compartment module."
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/12/2008 08:48 am
Is the launch schedule (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg226641#msg226641) on page 10 still relevant?

Yes. But IM1 is MRM-2 now, IM2 is MRM-1 now, MRM-1 will fly on STS-132, IM3-1 and IM3-2 are obviously cancelled.

The current schedule:

August 15, 2009 - Progress M-SO2 launch (with MRM-2 [МИМ-2]) by Soyuz-FG rocket
April 8, 2010 - Discovery (STS-132) launch (with MRM-1 [МИМ-1])
December 2011 - MLM [МЛМ] launch by Proton-M rocket
2013 - Progress M-UM launch (with Node Module [УМ]) by Soyuz-2.1b rocket
2014 - Science-Power Module No. 1 [НЭМ-1] launch by Proton-M (or Angara A5) rocket
2015 - Science-Power Module No. 2 [НЭМ-2] launch by Proton-M (or Angara A5) rocket
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cb6785 on 07/12/2008 09:06 am
so there will be science power modules after all? what are they? something like SPP (which was cancelled in 2006 I believe)?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 07/12/2008 11:30 am
Do the new Science Power Modules launch with the solar arrays attached as seen in the diagram below?

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 07/12/2008 02:44 pm
Anything beyond MLM on the schedule is, shall we say, in very long term development, and the configurations may change radically over time. Even MLM is a dicey proposition, and that is over 70% complete.

If anyone here is aware of any serious work done on MLM (FGB-2) in the last 10 years, it would be good to know.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 07/13/2008 02:51 am
So the Docking Cargo Module (in this thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7493.0)) is also the MRM-1/МИМ-1?  ???

Also, what are the full Russian meanings of МИМ and УМ?

And when is the European Robot Arm to be launched?

(I'm trying to make sense of things on my webpage (http://suzymchale.com/kosmonavtka/issfutmod.html))
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 07/13/2008 06:19 am
So the Docking Cargo Module (in this thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7493.0)) is also the MRM-1/МИМ-1?  ???

Also, what are the full Russian meanings of МИМ and УМ?

And when is the European Robot Arm to be launched?

(I'm trying to make sense of things on my webpage (http://suzymchale.com/kosmonavtka/issfutmod.html))

Some answers:

The Docking and Cargo Module was renamed as MRM-1, even though it will be launched AFTER MRM-2, and even though the two modules are very different in design.

AFAIK, the European Robotic Arm would be launched on MLM (FGB-2) whose launch date slips by 12 months every year. Maybe it will go up in 2011/12, maybe not.



Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/13/2008 07:00 am
So the Docking Cargo Module (in this thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7493.0)) is also the MRM-1/МИМ-1?

Yes. The former name of this module was "Docking Cargo Module (DCM)" ["Стыковочно-грузовой модуль (СГМ)", Stykovochno-gruzovoy modul (SGM)]. The new name of this module is "Mini Research Module 1 (MRM-1)" ["Малый исследовательский модуль-1 (МИМ-1)", Maliy issledovatelskiy modul-1 (MIM-1)].

Also, what are the full Russian meanings of МИМ and УМ?

"Mini Research Module 2 (MRM-2)" ["Малый исследовательский модуль-2 (МИМ-2)", Maliy issledovatelskiy modul-2 (MIM-2)]. The former name of this module was "Docking Compartment 2 (DC-2)" ["Стыковочный отсек-2 (СО-2)", Stykovochniy otsek-2 (SO-2)].

"Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM)" ["Многоцелевой лабораторный модуль (МЛМ)", Mnogotselevoy laboratorniy modul (MLM)].

"Node Module (NM)" ["Узловой модуль (УМ)", Uzlovoy modul (UM)].

'Science Power Module 1 (SPM-1)" ["Научно-энергетический модуль-1 (НЭМ-1)", Nauchno-energeticheskiy modul-1 (NEM-1)].

'Science Power Module 2 (SPM-2)" ["Научно-энергетический модуль-2 (НЭМ-2)", Nauchno-energeticheskiy modul-2 (NEM-2)].

And when is the European Robot Arm to be launched?

With MLM, as planned earlier.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 07/13/2008 09:35 am
AFAIK, the European Robotic Arm would be launched on MLM (FGB-2) whose launch date slips by 12 months every year. Maybe it will go up in 2011/12, maybe not.

Well, actually, as far as I see it, the MLM gets pushed back even faster than real time progresses:

Aug 2004: Announcement that FGB-2 will be used for the MLM

Dec 3, 2004: launch Nov 2007 (3 years to go)
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMG8LXJD1E_index_0.html

Oct 27, 2005: launch Nov 2007 (2 years to go)
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/Pr_48_2005_p_EN.html

Nov, 2006: launch December 2008 (2 years to go)
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/spacestation/docs/ISS_overview.pdf

Nov 23, 2006: launch 2009 (3 years to go)
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Russia_RKK_Energia_To_Build_New_Laboratory_Module_For_ISS_999.html

Feb 20, 2008: launch 2011 (3 years+ to go)
http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Columbus/SEMXOTVHJCF_0.html

Jul 8, 2008: launch December 2011 (3.5 years to go)
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Final070808.xml&headline=Final%20Shuttle%20Flight%20Set%20May%2031,%202010&channel=space

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: aquarius on 07/13/2008 11:13 am
Last month www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru posted Lopota´s statement, that in 2012 the Russian segment will get a new docking module, that´ll have several ports and airlocks. Is it Node Module he was referring to?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Analyst on 07/13/2008 11:39 am
And when is the European Robot Arm to be launched?

With MLM, as planned earlier.

Hasn't there been a drawing with ERA mounted on the DM (together with a small airlock and a radiator) to be launched with the Shuttle? Has this changed?

Analyst
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 07/13/2008 11:49 am
And when is the European Robot Arm to be launched?

With MLM, as planned earlier.

Hasn't there been a drawing with ERA mounted on the DM (together with a small airlock and a radiator) to be launched with the Shuttle? Has this changed?

Analyst

I haven't seen that drawing, but actually when thinking about it, it would make some sense to have the ERA mounted on the MRM-1 (aka DM aka Dockin and Storage Module), as it was originally intended to be mounted on the pressurized section of the Science Power Platform which in turn is used as the basis of MRM-1.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/13/2008 03:06 pm
Hasn't there been a drawing with ERA mounted on the DM (together with a small airlock and a radiator) to be launched with the Shuttle?

It is the spare elbow joint for ERA manipulator, not ERA manipulator.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: brahmanknight on 07/13/2008 04:17 pm
So is the ERA still scheduled to be launched on the next full Russian labratory in 2012, I believe?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/13/2008 04:44 pm
To brahmanknight:

And when is the European Robot Arm to be launched?

With MLM, as planned earlier

December 2011 - MLM [МЛМ] launch by Proton-M rocket
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Analyst on 07/13/2008 05:28 pm
Hasn't there been a drawing with ERA mounted on the DM (together with a small airlock and a radiator) to be launched with the Shuttle?

It is the spare elbow joint for ERA manipulator, not ERA manipulator.

Thanks. I thought its the whole arm.

Analyst
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 07/14/2008 07:49 am
Thanks, it's less confusing now!  ;D

...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: DmitryP on 07/16/2008 09:06 am
Per Novosti Kosmonavtiki permission this is the translation of the full recent article in their magazine on the ISS Russian segment.

© Novosti Kosmonavtiki. Reference to Novosti Kosmonavtiki is obligatory when using any part of this article.

Program for Development of the Russian ISS Segment

Sergey Shamsutdinov
«Novosti kosmonavtiki»

ISS construction is at last entering its final stage. Recently European “Columbus” module was added to the station followed by Japanese “Kibo” module. At the end of 2009 shuttle will deliver to ISS the last elements of the American segment – Node 3 and “Cupola”. As a result of these activities, Russian ISS partners (USA, Canada, ESA and Japan) starting from 2010 will have a complete segment and would be able to start its full scale utilization, doing science and research for their respective national space agencies.

And what is happening with our Russian segment (RS)? At the moment it consists of 3 modules: FGB “Zarya”, SM “Zvezda” and docking compartment “Pirs”. And FGB “Zarya” legally belongs to USA, since it is built under contract paid by Americans. It is considered part of the RS only because it is managed by MCC-M and serviced mainly by Russian cosmonauts. In accordance to Vitaly Lopota, President of RKK “Energia”, Federal Space Program initially envisaged 10 Russian modules at ISS by 2010, but due to underfinacing construction of RS is delayed. Production and launches of modules have been moved to the right for the indefinite period of time. Therefore RKK “Energia”, being responsible for development and operation of RS, prepared an updated program of development of ISS RS. It is now planned to launch 6 new modules for the RS during 2009-2015 in the following order:

Mini Research Module -2 – Docking Compartment -2, MRM-2 – DC2 (malii issledovatelskiy modul 2 – stykovochny otsek 2, МИМ2-СО2) will be used to create the fourth docking port at ISS for Soyuz and Progress ships and enable fuel transfer to ISS. Such additional docking compartment is required to increase ISS crew to 6 persons, since constant presence of 2 Soyuz ships at the station is required in this case. Also this module could be used for EVAs.
Main technical specifications of the module: mass – 4000 kg, diameter – 2.6 m, length – 4.6 m, pressurized volume – 12.5 m3, cargo weight to be delivered inside the module – 1000 kg, storage volume inside the module - 2.5 m3, one workplace for the scientific equipment on an external surface of the module. Launch of the module is planned for August 2009 by Soyuz-FG rocket. It would be delivered to ISS with the help of special cargo ship Progress M – CO2 (#302, mass at launch 7290 kg) and would be docked to zenith port of “Zvezda” SM.

Mini Research Module – 1- Docking and Cargo Module, MRM-1 - DCM (Maliy issledovatelskiy modul-1 – stykovochno-gruzovoi modul, МИМ1-СГМ) will be used to ensure operations of Soyuz and Progress, as well as to deliver various cargo to ISS. This module is constructed under contract with NASA, its full description is in Novosti Kosmonavtiki, issue # 6 for 2007, pages 20-21.
Main technical specifications of the module: mass at start – 7900 kg, diameter – 2.4 m, length – 6.55 m, pressurized volume – 18 m3, pressurized storage volume inside the module - 5 m3, one workplace for the scientific equipment on an external surface of the module.  The following cargo would be delivered at the exterior of the module: MLM airlock, MLM radiator, spare elbow joint for European Manipulator Arm (ERA) and transferable workplace with ERA mounting platform. All those elements would be transferred to MLM in the future.
MRM-1 – DCM launch is planned for March 2010 at STS-132/ISS-ULF4. Module would be installed at the nadir port of FGB “Zarya”.

Multipurpose Laboratory Module, MLM  (mnogotselevoy laboratorniy modul (МЛМ) would be the main functional element of ISS RS which would ensure scientific utilization of RS (SM, FGB and Pirs are used primarily for ISS maintenance). MLM is created as multi-purpose scientific laboratory, which would be capable of handling rotating science payloads under Russian and foreign science programs. MLM inclusion in the RS will allow to significantly increase RS scientific capacity for fundamental and applied research projects. Module would be equipped with 12 external workplaces and several internal unified workplaces, as well as with vibration-protected workplaces, thermostatic equipment, manipulator and automated airlock.
Main technical specifications of the module: mass – 20700 kg, diameter – 4.1 m, length – 13.2 m, pressurized volume – 70 m3, pressurized storage volume inside the module -  up to 8 m3, power available for scientific experiments – up to 2.5 kW. It is expected that MLM will be launched in 2011 by Proton-M rocket. It will then use its own engines to fly to ISS and would be docked to the nadir docking port at SM “Zvezda”. Docking Compartment - 1 is located at this port at the moment and therefore before MLM launch DC-1 would be undocked with the help of Progress ship and then deorbited.

Node module, NM (uzlovoy modul (УМ) is required to integrate in RS two science power modules and provide additional docking ports. Main technical specifications of the module: mass – 4000 kg, pressurized volume – 14 m3, docking ports available – 5. Launch of the module is planned for 2013 by Soyuz rocket. It would be delivered to ISS with the help of special cargo ship Progress M – УМ (#303) and would be docked to MLM.

Science Power Module, SPM (nauchno-energeticheskiy modul (НЭМ) is required to ensure independent power supply to ISS. Main technical specifications of the module: mass – 20000 kg, diameter – 4.1 m, length – 25.3 m, dimensions with the fully deployed solar arrays and radiator - 26.5х25.3х10.5 m, pressurized volume –  up to 150 m3, pressurized volume for scientific equipment - 12 m3, solar arrays power capacity – 36 kW, 12 workplaces. In accordance with agreement with NASA RS is partially supplied with power from American segment but this is possible only till 2015. For further RS operations it should have its own power system, and it is envisaged to have 2 similar modules for this purpose - SPM-1 in 2014 and SPM-2 in 2015. They would be launched by Proton-M rockets and would be docked to port and aft docking ports of the NM.

Therefore, by 2015 the ISS RS will include 8 modules: FGB “Zarya”, SM “Zvezda”, MLM, MRM-1-CDM, MRM-2-DC2, NM, SPM-1 and SPM-2. RS total mass would be 122 tones, pressurized volume – up to 400 m3, power capacity – 80 kW.
Such projected configuration of the ISS RS allows, if required,  to start independent flight of the RS as a separate Russian orbital station.
Full scale deployment of RS will allow Russian continuous presence in space, will provide an opportunity for fundamental scientific research, will give a chance for development of unique new materials, and will provide an opportunity for additional commercial services in space. In a longer term perspective ISS RS could be used for development, assembly and maintenance of the lunar and interplanetary flights.
ISS RS development program is approved by the Scientific and Technical Council of RKK “Energia” and Roskosmos management. It should now get the endorsement of the Russian government and receive full financing. Only in this case the full-scale ISS RS could be completed.

Author appreciates contribution of RKK “Energia” President and General Designer Vitaly Lopota and Deputy General Designer Nikolay Bryukhanov who provided information materials for this article.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cb6785 on 07/16/2008 11:34 am
Thanks Dmitry for the detailed information! I was surprised to see how much habitable volume the SPM have.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: JimO on 07/16/2008 01:15 pm
Thanks, Dmitriy. When I cite NK, what issue or publication date should I use?

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: amaturespacecase on 07/16/2008 01:58 pm
Not to be outdone, I hope NASA would keep the station past 2016... maybe use Ares V to put up a habitation module or 2, maybe a fuel depot module. Looks like the Russians will have their own happy station by that time and could simply un-dock from the American segment.

One question though. Would it be virtually impossible to replace the Unity Node? She's getting older now, and if we did choose to expand the station she better be in good working order.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 07/16/2008 03:21 pm

One question though. Would it be virtually impossible to replace the Unity Node? She's getting older now, and if we did choose to expand the station she better be in good working order.

That's impossible. You cannot just break the entire IsS in half and put a new module in the middle. Zarya and Zvezda are old too!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: DmitryP on 07/16/2008 03:28 pm
Thanks, Dmitriy. When I cite NK, what issue or publication date should I use?

It is in July issue of this year (#7 (306)).

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/306/index.shtml
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 07/16/2008 03:40 pm
I really lilke this new plan and hope it all goes ahead.

Now that Node 3 is going to be attached to Unity's port CBM MRM1 isn't really needed but I suppose it would be a very handy space for storage...

I also like the fact that the Russian segment is going to have modules in all sorts of places as the US side is all one one floor. It will be more like Mir having modules above you, below you etc.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 07/16/2008 07:47 pm
Yes indeed thanks very much Dmitry, I was wondering where RS EVAs would be staged from with the loss of Pirs. Also very good to know that the RS will be able to carry on when NASA pulls out, mankind will still have a space station!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: amaturespacecase on 07/17/2008 07:13 pm

One question though. Would it be virtually impossible to replace the Unity Node? She's getting older now, and if we did choose to expand the station she better be in good working order.

That's impossible. You cannot just break the entire IsS in half and put a new module in the middle. Zarya and Zvezda are old too!

See yeah that's what I thought. In fact the more I thought about it the more impossible it looked, although I was basing this replacement on the assumption that the RS would un-dock and become its own station, leaving only PMA-1 in the way on one side. But still, no matter which way you work it, that isn't happening. I'm sure it will hold up well. I hope we retain ISS during lunar missions. It'd be kind of lame for groups like SpaceX if they suddenly didn't have a station to fly to. 
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: quickshot89 on 07/20/2008 10:46 pm
have we got any pictures of MRM 1/2 or MLM being built

and recent ones at that?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 07/22/2008 07:15 pm
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/07/22/225946/russias-federal-space-agency-announces-more-iss-modules.html (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/07/22/225946/russias-federal-space-agency-announces-more-iss-modules.html)

"The additional ISS modules were announced by FSA chief Anatoly Perminov at a heads of agency meeting in Paris on 17 July. NASA's Space Shuttle launch manifest details three modules. The Mini Research Module 2 (MRM2), being delivered by a Russian launcher in 2009, the MRM1 that is installed by NASA's Space Shuttle Discovery's crew on mission STS-132 in 2010 and a Proton rocket-delivered multipurpose laboratory module targeted for 2011. The Shuttle mission STS-132 is described as a contingency, but NASA has recently said that it will fly both its contingency missions, STS-132 and STS-133."


 ;D
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 07/26/2008 12:17 am
have we got any pictures of MRM 1/2 or MLM being built

and recent ones at that?

Khrunichev's web site went live again, and there is this page on MLM:

http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55

(http://www.khrunichev.ru/img/cat1/modyl3_2.jpg)

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hanschristian on 07/26/2008 03:51 pm
so FGB 2 will be the MLM?

wait, it has the similar docking mechanism as the PMAs... so, will it be possible that it can be used as a backup docking port for Orion?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 07/26/2008 04:08 pm
so FGB 2 will be the MLM?

wait, it has the similar docking mechanism as the PMAs... so, will it be possible that it can be used as a backup docking port for Orion?

No, it won't have the APDS docking mechanism, as it should be able to receive Soyuz and Progress ships, which do not use APDS.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jorge on 07/26/2008 04:10 pm
so FGB 2 will be the MLM?

wait, it has the similar docking mechanism as the PMAs... so, will it be possible that it can be used as a backup docking port for Orion?

No, it will be probe & drogue.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hanschristian on 07/27/2008 01:24 am
Ah I see...

from the attached image, the FGB-2 fwd docking port is equipped with the APDS docking system while the nadir port is using the probe & drogue mechanism, just like Zarya, so does that mean the APDS will be replaced with probe & drogue?

thanks again!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 07/27/2008 02:39 am
Ah I see...

from the attached image, the FGB-2 fwd docking port is equipped with the APDS docking system while the nadir port is using the probe & drogue mechanism, just like Zarya, so does that mean the APDS will be replaced with probe & drogue?

First off, the photo I posted was waaaaaaaaaay too small to determine what the docking systems were. Secondly, the photo showed the "top" docking port, which is aft, since the FGB class spacecraft are launched upside down from an ISS perspective.  The bottom end of FGB/MLM will contain a hybrid system, which is similar to APAS, except that it carries a probe instead of an androgynous system, the changeout probably takes an hour on the ground.

The top end, which will be pointing "down" at ISS is a multiple docking adapter, with the axial adapter will be a cone, capable of mating with Soyuz and Progress, whereas there will be at least one radial adapter, also a cone. This adapter is supposed to be used with the MLM Airlock Module, to be orbited attached to MRM-1.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hanschristian on 07/27/2008 10:44 am
I see... thanks for the added detail infos!!!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 08/16/2008 06:41 pm
DmitryP, I was reviewing your post from the Novosti Kosmonavtiki article and I have some questions that you or others may be able to answer. ???

Presumably at this point the MRM-1, and MRM-2 are fully funded and fully assembled and are in integration?

Since MRM-1 is scheduled to fly on ULF-5 and NASA is still listing this as a contingency flight would it be possible to fly MRM-1 using a Soyuz-FG and Progress M – CO should NASA fail to fly ULF-5?

Is FGB-2, MLM, fully funded? What is its assembly/flight status?

Has the NM been authorized and funded? What is its design/assembly status?

Have the 2 SPM modules been authorized and funded? What is their design/assembly status?

From my reading here and elsewhere it appears as though de-mating the Zarya module from PMA-1 would require several EVAs to decouple data and power links and some internal disconnects (com, air circulation, and etc). I was wondering if Zarya’s solar panels would need to be redeployed prior to de-mate and what other preparations would be necessary?

Does Zarya or Zvezda have thrusters oriented correctly to perform de-mate or would another craft have to provide the separation impulse?

Could the separation of the RS take place now or would the RS require the addition of some or all of the additional modules before it would be capable of independent operations?

Thanks in advance. :D

Norm

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 08/17/2008 12:07 am
DmitryP, I was reviewing your post from the Novosti Kosmonavtiki article and I have some questions that you or others may be able to answer. ???

Presumably at this point the MRM-1, and MRM-2 are fully funded and fully assembled and are in integration?

Since MRM-1 is scheduled to fly on ULF-5 and NASA is still listing this as a contingency flight would it be possible to fly MRM-1 using a Soyuz-FG and Progress M – CO should NASA fail to fly ULF-5?

Is FGB-2, MLM, fully funded? What is its assembly/flight status?

Has the NM been authorized and funded? What is its design/assembly status?

Have the 2 SPM modules been authorized and funded? What is their design/assembly status?

From my reading here and elsewhere it appears as though de-mating the Zarya module from PMA-1 would require several EVAs to decouple data and power links and some internal disconnects (com, air circulation, and etc). I was wondering if Zarya’s solar panels would need to be redeployed prior to de-mate and what other preparations would be necessary?

Does Zarya or Zvezda have thrusters oriented correctly to perform de-mate or would another craft have to provide the separation impulse?

Could the separation of the RS take place now or would the RS require the addition of some or all of the additional modules before it would be capable of independent operations?

In general, except for the MRM-1 and -2, no other modules are "fully funded". FGB-2/MLM is being funded in "drip" mode, others are projects with no official funding.

The separation could technically take place at any time. The RS does not "need" any further hardware to do so.  The APAS on the front of FGB has springs, so separation is not an issue.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 08/17/2008 01:50 pm

The separation could technically take place at any time. The RS does not "need" any further hardware to do so.  The APAS on the front of FGB has springs, so separation is not an issue.


Not quite true.  There are exterior EVA umbilicals and the US side of the interface has deactivated.

Also he FGB is US property. 

And there is the responsibility of deorbiting the non RS portion
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 08/17/2008 04:09 pm
In general, except for the MRM-1 and -2, no other modules are "fully funded". FGB-2/MLM is being funded in "drip" mode, others are projects with no official funding.

I know that MLM has been in work for decades but with a 2011 launch date I was hoping the funding and final assembly/integration might be coming online now. I realize that the article in Novosti Kosmonavtiki is based on the RKK “Energia” plans and does not have the commitment of the government as yet, I was wondering if there might have been some movement on the government’s part.

Quote from: Danderman
The separation could technically take place at any time. The RS does not "need" any further hardware to do so.  The APAS on the front of FGB has springs, so separation is not an issue.
Thanks Danderman, I was unsure that the connector was a standard APAS.

Not quite true.  There are exterior EVA umbilicals and the US side of the interface has deactivated.
I believe Danderman was responding to my question;
Quote from: Norm Hartnett
Does Zarya or Zvezda have thrusters oriented correctly to perform de-mate or would another craft have to provide the separation impulse?
Demating umbilicals and internal interfaces was covered in another question.

Quote from: Jim
Also he FGB is US property.
True but the FGB is managed by MMC-M. If NASA abandons the ISS in 2016 or sooner the Russians could possibly claim salvage or simply tell the US to “talk to the hand”. 

Quote from: Jim
And there is the responsibility of deorbiting the non RS portion
If the RS can maintain on orbit operations the de-orbiting of the non-RS portion is arguably not the Russian’s responsibility.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Jim on 08/17/2008 06:03 pm

If the RS can maintain on orbit operations the de-orbiting of the non-RS portion is arguably not the Russian’s responsibility.


That is what the FGB is for
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 08/17/2008 10:06 pm
Is the FGB that powerful? I thought its engines were useful for the early stages of assembly, but they wouldn't be that effective to handle the truss plus the pressurized US modules. I was under the impression ISS was planned to be deorbited via Progress/ATV/HTV or just with Zvezda's engines.

But I would think if the dire situation of RS-US segment separation was to happen, some kind of tug could be launched to deorbit the American section (a la Hubble)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 08/17/2008 11:55 pm

If the RS can maintain on orbit operations the de-orbiting of the non-RS portion is arguably not the Russian’s responsibility.


That is what the FGB is for

This is a little cryptic. I think you mean to say that the US paid for FGB; FGB has the capability to maintain the orbit of the US segment; if there were a separation of the segments, in some way, the FGB would go with the US segment and so keeping it in orbit would be handled by the FGB.

Right?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 08/17/2008 11:57 pm
But I would think if the dire situation of RS-US segment separation was to happen, some kind of tug could be launched to deorbit the American section (a la Hubble)

If it makes you feel better, the HTV could handle this function.

HOWEVER, in that world where the segments are to be separated, ISS would be over as a program, and so many aspects of international spaceflight would be affected that issues such as the specific tug to be used would be minor compared to everything else going on.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: quickshot89 on 08/18/2008 02:45 pm
i really cant see the ISS going down anytime soon, its just taken too much effort to get it up there to just fall back down after a few years of life.

im hoping the russians will show more details on what they plan to do
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 08/18/2008 05:33 pm
Just to be clear I started this line of inquiry in response to this line in the Novosti Kosmonavtiki article.

Quote from: Novosti Kosmonavtiki
Such projected configuration of the ISS RS allows, if required,  to start independent flight of the RS as a separate Russian orbital station.

There are other threads that discuss the current political situation and it’s ramifications for the ISS and still other threads that discuss NASA’s current intentions and capabilities with regard to the ISS. I am more interested in the current state of development of the Russian Segment and the possibilities of its independent operation as is appropriate for this thread.

As to Zarya, possession is nine-tenths of the law. If MMC-M has operational control of Zarya and if Russia determines that they are capable of maintaining an operational space station with the addition of Zarya I am pretty sure they would retain it. This all assumes that Russia has the political will to maintain a space station, of course, and further assumes that NASA has abandoned the station for whatever reason.

Thanks for the note that the HTV has de-orbit capability Danderman.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 08/18/2008 10:25 pm

Thanks for the note that the HTV has de-orbit capability Danderman.

Is it now? I thought a bit about this last night, and actually I don't see it being as easy as it sounds.

On the one hand, HTV wouldn't have the chance to dock in the +/- X axis of the station. In its nominal configuration, it would be docked to Harmony nadir, and one could concievably think it could get attached to Harmony zenith, or any of Node 3 CBMs. But that gives an awkward position for reboosts, specially for one so long as a deorbit burn for the giant US segment. Plus, would the CMGs be able to account for the attitude control needed without RS thrusters?

HTV cannot transfer fuel, so there's the question of propellant availability, although I would think the unpressurized cargo container could easily be modified for bigger tanks if that was needed.

Just some things that came over the top of my head, perhaps they are easily solvable?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 08/18/2008 10:41 pm
Move the PMA currently attached to Node 2 forward CBM to another port. Berth HTV to the now unoccupied Node 2 forward CBM. Make sure that HTV has plenty of prop before launch.

Turn ISS 180 degrees, using HTV ACS.

Fire HTV engines.

Goodbye, ISS.

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 08/18/2008 11:07 pm
Of course, that's an option, but that would involve disconnecting all the umbilicals with the Node (EVAs) and lots of robotics, not a straightforward, last-minute solution.

My point is if this situation were to happen, it would require quite a lot of previous cooperation between Russia and the US/IPs, and responsibilities would have to be taken on both sides... IMHO, I don't think this is a realistic scenario.

But it's fun to talk about :) Also, if HTV wasn't able to carry the propellants, perhaps some hypothetical COTS vehicule could.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: DmitryP on 08/19/2008 07:11 am
Just to be clear I started this line of inquiry in response to this line in the Novosti Kosmonavtiki article.

As to Zarya, possession is nine-tenths of the law.

Norm, I have posted your questions at the NK forum but I doubt there would be any answer. It is very difficult to get information about the current status of the RS modules... Depending on whether suppliers are asking for money or reporting about their achievements it could be from "huge efforts are still required" to "will be completed next year"....

Dmitry

One questions about Zarya. Being legally a US asset, can it be sold to Russia as a barter deal for Souzs (what is a correct spelling of Soyuz in plural ? )? Will this require same Congress waiver as a regular monetary deal? 
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 08/19/2008 06:30 pm
Thanks Dmitry, looking forward to any responses that may show up.

As to swapping the Zarya for Soyuz rides (one solution to the plural of Soyuz ;D), that is a question for congressional lawyers.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 09/07/2008 10:27 pm
Interesting presentation by Energia's Nikolai Bryukhanov with many future concepts outlined, including a detailed outline of the new RS modules, posted by pm1823 in this thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=14256.msg313156#msg313156

http://www.senkyo.co.jp/ists2008/pdf/2008-o-3-06v.pdf
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: pippin on 09/08/2008 12:29 am
Looks a bit like I posted my original question in the wrong thread so I continue here - just to cause some more confusion :)
Is all of the near term stuff really in the making?
I'm talking about the "under development" stuff:
Cargo Return Vehicle
Node Module
Multi-Purpose Laboratory Module
Mini Research Module 1 (to be launched by Shuttle, I assume this is on ULF4?)
Mini Research Module 2 (2009, shouldn't that one be manifested already? Can't find it on the "Plan of Russian Launches" thread.

See this reply by Danderman: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2881.msg307376#msg307376

Both MRMs are quite quoted in Russian media, and their launches are pretty soon (MRM-1 should be finished more or less at the same time as -2, given it has to be shipped to KSC, checked... before the mission) MLM is the main Russian module, to be launched with the European Robotic Arm, and is quoted to be around 70-75% development, so I would assume its launch is certain, perhaps with a longer delay than advertised. The node would be pretty cheap to launch (Soyuz, small volume) so that wouldn't be much of a stretch. I pretty much agree with pm1823's view on this, although I'm under the impression he has more in-depth info than I do. :)

You say the node would be cheap to launch:
Do all Russian modules have "free-flyer" capabilities, that is: can they rendezvous with ISS on their own?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: nacnud on 09/08/2008 12:42 am
No, only DOS (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_sm.html) (Zvezda) or TKS (Zarya) (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/tks.html) based modules have 'free-flyer' capabilities. Other modules, so long as they are light can use a donor Progress for docking or have to be brought up on the Shuttle. I don't know how the science power modules are to be delivered to station.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 09/08/2008 01:04 am
No, only DOS (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_sm.html) (Zvezda) or TKS (Zarya) (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/tks.html) based modules have 'free-flyer' capabilities. Other modules, so long as they are light can use a donor Progress for docking or have to be brought up on the Shuttle. I don't know how the science power modules are to be delivered to station.

By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: pm1823 on 09/08/2008 08:05 am
37КE was experimental module... too heavy, with bad useful payload mass/volume coef. Next 77KS had better design, but anyway, to make new modules on those old designs is irrational.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: pm1823 on 09/08/2008 08:45 am
I don't know how the science power modules are to be delivered to station.

Yeah, good question. Early it was expected to do with Parom help.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 09/08/2008 05:11 pm
Mini Research Module 1 (to be launched by Shuttle, I assume this is on ULF4?)

Yes, MRM1 will be launched aboard Discovery (STS-132/ULF4) on April 8, 2010.
 
Mini Research Module 2 (2009, shouldn't that one be manifested already? Can't find it on the "Plan of Russian Launches" thread)

MRM2 will be launched together with Progress M-SO2 cargo ship-module by Soyuz-FG rocket on August 15, 2009.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: marsavian on 01/06/2009 01:08 am
Russian Mini Research Module (MRM1) schematic

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=27297
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: marsavian on 01/12/2009 04:13 pm
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Russ011209.xml&headline=Shuttle%20To%20Carry%20Russian%20Gear&channel=space
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Stephan on 01/12/2009 06:07 pm
Russian Mini Research Module (MRM1) schematic

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=27297
There too : http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/01/pictures-russias-mini-research.html
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 01/14/2009 02:37 am
By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.

Another flew in orbit in 1988.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 01/14/2009 11:40 am
By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.

Another flew in orbit in 1988.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Really? I didn't think that flight (assuming we are talking of the same flight) had a payload.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 02/09/2009 01:57 pm
More delays for MLM (now November 2012) :/

From today's ISS Status Report:

12/XX/11-- Proton 3R/MLM w/ERA.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 02/09/2009 02:01 pm
??? 12/XX/11 is still 2011, or is the delay from another source?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 02/09/2009 02:25 pm
Oops, I read it the wrong way around... you're correct, it's still 2011, though they're now aiming for December, which is almost certain to slip to early 2012.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 02/14/2009 01:32 am
By the way, what ever happened to the 37KE line?  they were supposed to start cranking them out by the hand full, however after Kvant-1 nothing was heard of them.

Another flew in orbit in 1988.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Really? I didn't think that flight (assuming we are talking of the same flight) had a payload.

The Buran flight carried a 37K payload, which carried much of the telemetry units plus some batteries.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 02/14/2009 11:58 pm
I was under the impression that the PLB was empty, with the telemetry systems in the mid-deck.

Out of interest, and quite off topic, how was Buran meant to be loaded with payload. I guess it would be while horizontal before rollout, but would like confirmation. The images of the pad at Baikonour never showed anything analogous to the RSS of LC-39.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 02/15/2009 01:00 am
I was under the impression that the PLB was empty, with the telemetry systems in the mid-deck.

I believe that this is an image of the payload:

(http://buran.ru/images/jpg/37kb3707.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: bobthemonkey on 02/15/2009 03:18 pm
Excellent, thank you.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 03/16/2009 11:42 pm
What is to be the fate of the Pirs module? This Russian segment diagram for 2011 shows it moved to the top of the Zvezda module, but this 2009 NASA ISS calendar diagram shows it replaced by MRM-2, so is Pirs ultimately to be replaced by MRM-2?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/17/2009 12:48 am
What is to be the fate of the Pirs module? This Russian segment diagram for 2011 shows it moved to the top of the Zvezda module, but this 2009 NASA ISS calendar diagram shows it replaced by MRM-2, so is Pirs ultimately to be replaced by MRM-2?

Pirs will be replaced in the airlock function by Mini-Research Module 2, which will also be the Zvezda zenith docking module.  the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will act as a docking compartment for Zvezda nadir
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MBK004 on 03/17/2009 01:10 am
What is to be the fate of the Pirs module? This Russian segment diagram for 2011 shows it moved to the top of the Zvezda module, but this 2009 NASA ISS calendar diagram shows it replaced by MRM-2, so is Pirs ultimately to be replaced by MRM-2?

Pirs will be replaced in the airlock function by Mini-Research Module 2, which will also be the Zvezda zenith docking module.  the Multipurpose Laboratory Module will act as a docking compartment for Zvezda nadir
Yes, MRM-2 will eventually replace Pirs, but from late 2009 until when MLM is on orbit, Pirs and MRM-2 will be at ISS together nadir and zenith respectively on Zvezda.

How Pirs will be undocked and disposed of is the question when it is replaced by MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MKremer on 03/17/2009 01:44 am
How Pirs will be undocked and disposed of is the question when it is replaced by MLM.

Use a Progress? Leave it attached to Pirs and undock Pirs with Zvezda.

The Progress would need to keep a lot more propellant onboard to deorbit the increased total mass, but it seems a logical way to do it.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: MSSpace on 04/01/2009 11:10 am
Yes, Pirs will be taken away from the station and deorbited by the last Progress that docks via Pirs before the arrival of MLM. That shouldn't be a problem for the thrusters since even the much bigger "Mir" was deorbited by a progress, too.
MSSpace...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 04/01/2009 06:32 pm
Yes, Pirs will be taken away from the station and deorbited by the last Progress that docks via Pirs before the arrival of MLM. That shouldn't be a problem for the thrusters since even the much bigger "Mir" was deorbited by a progress, too.
MSSpace...

This will be the first module of the ISS to be de-orbited and replaced, although Pirs has long exceeded it's 5 year life span. It will be interesting to see if MRM2 is much different to it's predecessor...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 04/01/2009 10:32 pm
Yes, Pirs will be taken away from the station and deorbited by the last Progress that docks via Pirs before the arrival of MLM. That shouldn't be a problem for the thrusters since even the much bigger "Mir" was deorbited by a progress, too.
MSSpace...

Depending on how much trash is loaded into Pirs before de-orbit, the added mass shouldn't cause much more than 150 kg or so of extra prop to be needed by Progress for the de-orbit.

On the other hand, although Progress has de-orbited large objects before, it has never removed a docked object from the vicinity of another object; meaning that there is a small risk that the Progress software may not be able to accommodate this new environment. I don't think that TORU would be available in this event, so everyone will be hoping that any off-nominal situations would be resolved by the Progress-Pirs complex just sort of drifting away from ISS, until it is sufficiently distant for the de-orbit maneuver.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 04/02/2009 11:27 pm
Tour of the Service module and docking compartment courtesy of Charles Simonyi and Space Adventures

http://www.charlesinspace.com/Uploads/Image/Galleries/highres/04.01.09%20ISS%20Tour%20(large)1.mov
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: jacqmans on 04/09/2009 12:10 pm
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

http://www.spacehab.com/news-and-events/news/astrotech-to-support-rsc-energia-in-preparation-of-russian-mrm1-module-for-flig

ASTROTECH TO SUPPORT RSC ENERGIA IN PREPARATION OF RUSSIAN MRM1 MODULE FOR FLIGHT ON U.S. SPACE SHUTTLE
Company Formalizes Contract for Russian Module Pre-Launch Support

Houston, Texas (April 8, 2009) -  Astrotech Corporation, (NASDAQ: SPAB), a leading provider of commercial space services, released today that the RSC Energia agreement in principle with the Company’s SPACEHAB Orbital Transportation, Inc. subsidiary, which was announced late last year, has now been formalized into a $1.8 million contract. Russia’s largest manufacturer of aerospace and space equipment will utilize Astrotech’s Cape Canaveral, Florida payload processing facilities and receive support services from Astrotech to prepare its Mini Research Module (MRM1) for flight aboard the U.S. Space Shuttle during the STS-132 mission.

“This is a great win for Astrotech Corporation, and is the result of a lot of hard work from people all across the organization,” said Thomas B. Pickens III, Astrotech’s chairman and chief executive officer. “This contract continues our legacy of spacecraft ground processing support services and builds on our role in supporting the completion and utilization of the International Space Station (ISS).”

Space shuttle mission STS-132 is currently scheduled for an April 2010 launch to ferry the MRM1 to the ISS where it will ultimately operate as a docking port extension for the Russian Soyuz and Progress vehicles. The MRM1 will also be transporting a full payload of cargo including spare parts, research hardware, and consumables to the ISS. Following deployment from the shuttle's cargo bay, the MRM1 will find its permanent residence on the ISS attached to the bottom port of the ZARYA module.

The Astrotech Payload Processing Facility, located adjacent to the south entrance of Kennedy Space Center, and the home port for NASA’s space shuttle operations has supported 23 space shuttle missions using the Company’s own commercial, habitable space modules and cargo carriers. Astrotech brings more than two decades of spacecraft ground processing support services and expertise to the endeavor; and, offers established infrastructure capabilities in pre-launch operations, which have serviced more than 260 spacecraft since 1984.

This new MRM1 payload processing contract is the latest in a series of collaborative projects between RSC Energia and Astrotech. RSC Energia designed and built the Integrated Cargo Carrier (ICC) series of un-pressurized cargo pallets for Astrotech in the mid to late 1990s. Astrotech and RSC Energia also collaborated on the conceptual development of the Enterprise module in 2000-2001, and supported various proposal development efforts such as the International Standard Payload Rack Waste Management System and the ISS Logistics Soft Stowage Bags. And, over the last 12 years, RSC Energia designed and built for Astrotech various components of flight support equipment for ISS Orbital Replacement Units flying on ICCs in the shuttle payload bay, including the Strela Crane, Portable Work Platform, and Service Module Debris Panels. Astrotech is honored to carry this collaboration forward with the MRM1 effort.

About Astrotech Corporation
Astrotech is a commercial and entrepreneurial force in the space industry providing a full spectrum of products and services to both the government and private sectors. The Company offers spacecraft pre-launch processing facilities and services, production of valuable commercial products in space, development and extension of space-based products to the consumer market, space access and payload integration services program and engineering support ranging from development and manufacturing of flight hardware to large scale government project management.

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Corporate Marketing and Communications
Astrotech Corporation
713.558.5299
[email protected]

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: NavySpaceFan on 04/09/2009 02:09 pm
Tour of the Service module and docking compartment courtesy of Charles Simonyi and Space Adventures

http://www.charlesinspace.com/Uploads/Image/Galleries/highres/04.01.09%20ISS%20Tour%20(large)1.mov

Great videos, especially the "how to wash your hair in micro gravity" film.  I was going to say something about him being stuck sleeping in the Pirs airlock, until I saw the window.  Talk about a room with a view!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 05/02/2009 11:48 am
When did this big change happen? Progress on Proton? MRM-2 design radically changed?

From today's ISS Status Report:

"11/10/09 -- 5R/MRM2 (Russian Mini Research Module, MIM2) on Proton -- tentative"
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 05/02/2009 01:20 pm
When did this big change happen? Progress on Proton? MRM-2 design radically changed?

It is nonsense, Progress M-MIM2 cargo ship-module will go on Soyuz-U rocket as Progress M-SO1 in 2001.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cd-slam on 05/02/2009 05:26 pm
When did this big change happen? Progress on Proton? MRM-2 design radically changed?

It is nonsense, Progress M-MIM2 cargo ship-module will go on Soyuz-U rocket as Progress M-SO1 in 2001.

Unfortunately, the "Significant Events Ahead" section of the ISS Status Reports is not always reliable. For example, it describes the coming Progress undocking as Progress M-01M. In fact it is Progress M-66, M-01M undocked in February. My advice: stick to anik's ISS events thread, his sources are much more reliable. :)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 05/02/2009 05:39 pm
My advice: stick to anik's ISS events thread, his sources are much more reliable. :)

That I should do, certainly... wow, how can anybody writing those expansive reports change what was alright, and rewrite it in such a way? Thanks for the clarification, anik.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 05/02/2009 05:57 pm
how can anybody writing those expansive reports change what was alright, and rewrite it in such a way?

All very simply.

April 21, 2009

http://www.nasa.gov/directorates/somd/reports/iss_reports/2009/04212009.html

"11/10/09 -- Soyuz 5R/MRM2 (Russian Mini Research Module, MIM2) on Soyuz -- tentative"

April 22, 2009

http://www.nasa.gov/directorates/somd/reports/iss_reports/2009/04222009.html

"11/10/09 -- 5R/MRM2 (Russian Mini Research Module, MIM2) on Proton -- tentative"

The source of this mistaken changing is...

Consolidated Launch Manifest

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/iss_manifest.html#
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: The-Hammer on 05/16/2009 12:51 am
Quote from: ISS Daily Status Reports
CDR Padalka had several hours set aside for installing and connecting new control and navigation hardware for the Russian MRM-2 (Mini Research Module 2), to be launched on a Proton later this year (Flight 5R).

Another reference to MRM-2 flying on Proton.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 05/16/2009 06:36 am
Another reference to MRM-2 flying on Proton

Another wrong info. MRM-2 will fly on Soyuz-U. Let's not return to this question again and again.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: jan_carlo_bascu on 06/06/2009 06:09 am
Another reference to MRM-2 flying on Proton

Another wrong info. MRM-2 will fly on Soyuz-U. Let's not return to this question again and again.

Yes, MRM-2 will be launch atop Soyuz-U rocket, but why NASA's consolidated launch manifest say that MRM-2 will fly on Proton in Nov. 10, 2009?
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/iss_manifest.html
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 06/11/2009 03:47 am
Some МИМ-2/MIM-2 photos (http://www.energia.ru/eng/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html) are up at the Energiya site.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: 8900 on 06/11/2009 04:11 am
Some МИМ-2/MIM-2 photos (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html) are up at the Energiya site (English page not available yet).
mini research module really looks "mini" when compared with other major ISS modules ;)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: jan_carlo_bascu on 06/11/2009 05:10 am
MRM-2 Mated Configuration for docking with ISS Zvezda zenith port, like Pirs DC-1.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: mr.columbus on 06/11/2009 09:38 am
Some МИМ-2/MIM-2 photos (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html) are up at the Energiya site (English page not available yet).

Thanks for that. It seems to be a no-glove environment... the Russians seem to take "contamination" with hair etc. not so serious as others. Well, at the end, why should they - it's not like anybody is going to die from that.

It doesn't look quite finished yet. Anybody know when they will start testing the module and get it to Baikonour?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: eeergo on 06/11/2009 12:23 pm
There's a Buran test model in the background in a pair of images (here (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/im/photo_06-10-08.jpg%20) and here (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html)) You can also see an avionics&propulsion module (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html) for a Progress or Soyuz... and an intriguing maze of white scaffolding in one of the pictures. Could it be the MLM stand?  (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/14/2009 12:29 pm
You can also see an avionics&propulsion module (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss21/photo_06-10.html) for a Progress or Soyuz...

It is Soyuz spacecraft (http://www.energia.ru/rus/news/news-2009/im/photo_03-17-08.jpg) completely for exhibition.

an intriguing maze of white scaffolding in one of the pictures

Nothing intrigue, it is simply an electrical analogue of Zvezda module (http://www.energia.ru/rus/news/news-2009/im/photo_04-13-03.jpg).
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 06/18/2009 04:08 am
More MIM-2 familiarization photos (http://www.energia.ru/eng/iss/iss22/photo_06-16.html) at Energiya (another image of the Buran test model in this photo (http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/iss22/im/photo_06-16-04.jpg)!). (I looked on the Buran site (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele.php) but could not figure out what model it was?)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 06/18/2009 04:34 pm
I looked on the Buran site (http://www.buran-energia.com/bourane-buran/bourane-modele.php) but could not figure out what model it was?

http://www.buran.fr/bourane-buran/img/factory9-grand.jpg
It is 3M (or OK-KS) full-size test model.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 07/05/2009 05:38 pm
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, Roskosmos has offered to RSC Energia the following names for new Russian modules:

MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search (or Quest ;) )
MRM-1 - Развитие/Rasvitie/Development
MLM - Перспектива/Perspektiva/Perspective
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cd-slam on 07/16/2009 09:25 am
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, Roskosmos has offered to RSC Energia the following names for new Russian modules:

MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search (or Quest ;) )
MRM-1 - Развитие/Rasvitie/Development
MLM - Перспектива/Perspektiva/Perspective
I like the idea of having the MRM-2 (Russian airlock) as the same name (in translation) as American airlock.
But I can see a potential PAO problem with MRM-1 going on an American shuttle. PAO might well have a problem pronouncing "Rasvitiye" unless he/she happens to be a Russian speaker...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Eraser on 07/26/2009 03:26 pm
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/iss_manifest.html   
Consolidated launch manifest has been corrected. Perhaps people from NASA read this forum.  ;)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 08/07/2009 01:40 pm
Photos of MRM-1 preparation are on http://www.energia.ru/rus/iss/mim1/photo_08-07.html
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Suzy on 08/18/2009 06:24 am
PDF document (500 KB), via NASA: Head of Russian Federal Space Agency ISS Program International Cooperation, Paris, June 17, 2009 (http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/361832main_05%20-%20%20Presentation_Engl.pdf). Has diagrams of the Russian segment, including the future modules. (Found at a French forum (http://astronautique.actifforum.com/russie-f9/les-plans-russes-pour-l-iss-et-au-dela-t8607.htm))
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: theonlyspace on 08/18/2009 03:42 pm
Thanks Suzy
Very enlighting read.  The Russians want the ISS up there even past 2020!!
Seems they want to go from there on their Mars mission around 2030. That
would be a great staging point. As for the Service Module being so old the
Russians with ESA's help could build an Advanced Service Module  with then
updated systems and dock it to the end of the current service module. Run
all controlling cables and plumbing from the new ASM thru the current service
module and the new ASM will control the ISS.



Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Fuji on 08/18/2009 10:44 pm
Thanks Suzy.
I can understand following news well.

Russia could build orbital assembly complex after 2020 - Energiacorporation
http://www.interfax.com/3/511798/news.aspx
"The  complex  will  be  based  on  the  Russian modules (MLM - the
Multifunctional Laboratory Module, UM - the Node Module, NEM1 and NEM2 -
the Science-Power  Modules)  once  international partners decide to stop
operating the ISS and undock them,"
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Spiff on 08/19/2009 01:27 pm
Don't bet your money on it guys.

Personally I'll be positively surprised if MLM launches in 2011
I'll be even more surprised if the nodal module and science and power modules get built and get launched. (Not even hoping they'll launch in the years mentioned above.)
And as for that 'piloted station' or something. As much as I'd like it. It's not going to happen.

These are nice powerpoint presentations, but no more than that.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: robertross on 08/19/2009 08:46 pm
PDF document (500 KB), via NASA: Head of Russian Federal Space Agency ISS Program International Cooperation, Paris, June 17, 2009 (http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/361832main_05%20-%20%20Presentation_Engl.pdf). Has diagrams of the Russian segment, including the future modules. (Found at a French forum (http://astronautique.actifforum.com/russie-f9/les-plans-russes-pour-l-iss-et-au-dela-t8607.htm))

Thanks Suzy!
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 08/20/2009 01:16 am
Note that the graphic for MRM-2 indicates that it will be launched by Soyuz FG, not Soyuz-U, which was the launcher for the similar Pirs.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: simon-th on 08/20/2009 07:54 am
Don't bet your money on it guys.

Personally I'll be positively surprised if MLM launches in 2011
I'll be even more surprised if the nodal module and science and power modules get built and get launched. (Not even hoping they'll launch in the years mentioned above.)
And as for that 'piloted station' or something. As much as I'd like it. It's not going to happen.

These are nice powerpoint presentations, but no more than that.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

MLM, MRM-1 and MRM-2 are funded.
The rest is not.

The whole structure (MLM-Nodal-the two science and power modules) that they want to have in place in 2015 was a Plan B backup of the Russians in the event the US were to back out of the ISS project in 2015. It is a somewhat cheap way of continuing HSF with Soyuz and Progress and Russian modules - they would just undock that structure from the ISS and continue with it as a base. MLM would be serving as the service module for that structure.

Of course once the US is onboard for ISS to 2020+, the whole rational of building that Nodal module and the two science power modules goes away.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 08/20/2009 10:42 am
Note that the graphic for MRM-2 indicates that it will be launched by Soyuz FG, not Soyuz-U, which was the launcher for the similar Pirs

It is mistake. Progress M-MIM2 will be launched by Soyuz-U rocket. There was tender (http://www.federalspace.ru/DocDoSele.asp?DocID=347&ShowAdm=) on Roskosmos website, which proves that it will be Soyuz-U rocket: "Подготовка к транспортировке, транспортировка, сопровождение РН 11А511У с ГО 11С517А2 для МИМ2"

MLM, MRM-1 and MRM-2 are funded

Yes for MRM-1 and MRM-2, and we see they are manufactured. But I doubt about MLM because I have not heard news about its preparation. The launch date is continuing to delay, and now it is planned in the first quarter of 2012.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 09/19/2009 03:11 pm
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, Roskosmos has offered to RSC Energia the following names for new Russian modules:

MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search (or Quest ;) )
MRM-1 - Развитие/Rasvitie/Development
MLM - Перспектива/Perspektiva/Perspective

According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, the following names are confirmed for new Russian modules:

МИМ-2/MIM-2/MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search
МИМ-1/MIM-1/MRM-1 - Рассвет/Rassvet/Dawn
МЛМ/MLM/MLM - Наука/Nauka/Science
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 09/20/2009 11:59 pm
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, Roskosmos has offered to RSC Energia the following names for new Russian modules:

MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search (or Quest ;) )
MRM-1 - Развитие/Rasvitie/Development
MLM - Перспектива/Perspektiva/Perspective

According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, the following names are confirmed for new Russian modules:

МИМ-2/MIM-2/MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search
МИМ-1/MIM-1/MRM-1 - Рассвет/Rassvet/Dawn
МЛМ/MLM/MLM - Наука/Nauka/Science

Geez, these sound like Dan Goldin NASA names. "Search", well, meh, its what you do on Yandex.ru, "Dawn makes this the second Russian segment module with this name (Zarya is the other) and calling the science module "Science", well at least its apt.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cd-slam on 09/21/2009 12:41 am
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, Roskosmos has offered to RSC Energia the following names for new Russian modules:

MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search (or Quest ;) )
MRM-1 - Развитие/Rasvitie/Development
MLM - Перспектива/Perspektiva/Perspective

According to Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, the following names are confirmed for new Russian modules:

МИМ-2/MIM-2/MRM-2 - Поиск/Poisk/Search
МИМ-1/MIM-1/MRM-1 - Рассвет/Rassvet/Dawn
МЛМ/MLM/MLM - Наука/Nauka/Science
I wonder if NASA PAO had anything to do with the change from "Rasvitie" to "Rassvet" (i.e. easier to pronounce). :)

I for one like the dualism of having US and Russian airlocks with similar names in translation ("Quest" and "Search").
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: hektor on 09/22/2009 09:04 am
Probably said elsewhere, but could someone explain to me the fate of Pirs before MLM/Nauka arrives. It has to go to make room, but where ?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Skyrocket on 09/22/2009 09:11 am
Probably said elsewhere, but could someone explain to me the fate of Pirs before MLM/Nauka arrives. It has to go to make room, but where ?

It will be disposed off.

A Progress transporter will take it with it at the end of its mission and will deorbit Pirs
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Danderman on 09/22/2009 02:59 pm
Probably said elsewhere, but could someone explain to me the fate of Pirs before MLM/Nauka arrives. It has to go to make room, but where ?

It will be disposed off.

A Progress transporter will take it with it at the end of its mission and will deorbit Pirs

This will probably only happen when MLM has been launched, or is close to launch. In the meantime, the Russian segment will have twin airlocks.

Since MLM launch is more or less receding in time by one year for every year of real time, the question is: what defines end of service life for Pirs? If MLM never launches, how long can Pirs remain in service?

Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cd-slam on 09/23/2009 02:57 am
This will probably only happen when MLM has been launched, or is close to launch. In the meantime, the Russian segment will have twin airlocks.

Since MLM launch is more or less receding in time by one year for every year of real time, the question is: what defines end of service life for Pirs? If MLM never launches, how long can Pirs remain in service?

I'm not so sure that Pirs will make it to MLM launch. As per an old document, Pirs is only certified for an on-orbit lifetime of 10 years. That will expire in September 2011, regardless of when Nauka finally launches.

That will leave the IPs with an unpalatable choice of agreeing to extend Pirs' lifetime, or jettisoning it which would remove a Soyuz/Progress docking berth (as Soyuz/Progress is not compatible with the Zvezda nadir berth). 
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Analyst on 09/23/2009 06:42 am
As with Shuttle, I am always amazed how literally folks take the term "recertification". Almost like the law, or gospel. Like the MER's, Voyager's, Mir any countless other spacecraft, this module won't fall apart after 10 years. Nor does your car beyond the warrenty. So this is a non issue: They will monitor the systems, change failed components as they always do, and use the module longer.

Analyst
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: anik on 09/23/2009 09:28 pm
As per an old document, Pirs is only certified for an on-orbit lifetime of 10 years

According to official documents, Pirs module was actually certified for only 5 years of an on-orbit lifetime.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: cd-slam on 09/24/2009 12:07 am
As per an old document, Pirs is only certified for an on-orbit lifetime of 10 years

According to official documents, Pirs module was actually certified for only 5 years of an on-orbit lifetime.

I stand corrected. So I guess it won't be sent back to the manufacturer for repairs. :)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Zipi on 09/24/2009 02:00 pm
Don't Russia have some commitment to launch MLM since European Robotic Arm (ERA) has scheduled to fly with it?
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: arkaska on 09/24/2009 04:06 pm
Since ERA will only operate on the Russian segment I would say it's up the the Russian if they want to launch it or not. They are the only ones they will use it since no other country has any experiments/equipment on the Russian segment.

I'm not sure but I would guess that ERA is own and payed for by the Russian, probably in a trade will seats on Soyuz for ESA.
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Zipi on 09/24/2009 04:23 pm
I tried to find info about ERA ownership, but didn't succeeded with that. However I found this interesting PDF:

http://www.spaceflight.esa.int/users/downloads/factsheets/fs008_11_era.pdf
(I don't know if this link is already posted somewhere, but here it is)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Solar_OPS on 09/24/2009 10:55 pm
I tried to find info about ERA ownership, but didn't succeeded with that. However I found this interesting PDF:

http://www.spaceflight.esa.int/users/downloads/factsheets/fs008_11_era.pdf
(I don't know if this link is already posted somewhere, but here it is)

A quick search gave this in an old document:

Quote
Under a July 1996 agreement, Russia will take ownership of the flight hardware once it is launched, in exchange for which ESA will participate in robotics activities aboard the Station and Agency astronauts will be trained at the Gagarin centre.The ground systems remain the property of ESA.

More info and unfortunately very outdated milestones can be found in:

http://esapub.esrin.esa.it/onstation/onstation2/era2.pdf

Enjoy the reading.

Denis
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Zipi on 09/30/2009 05:49 pm
If Russians somehow manage to finance nodal module and scientific power platforms, is there enough clearance for new solar panels at current ISS configuration?

At least for me it seems that current US built big panels and Russian scientific power platform panels need to be synchronized pretty carefully to avoid hitting each other...
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: simon-th on 09/30/2009 06:10 pm
If Russians somehow manage to finance nodal module and scientific power platforms, is there enough clearance for new solar panels at current ISS configuration?

At least for me it seems that current US built big panels and Russian scientific power platform panels need to be synchronized pretty carefully to avoid hitting each other...

The old Science Power Platform (SSP) also didn't have clearance issues with the solar arrays. The truss is actually pretty long. As long as the solar panels stay within a certain range bound on the port and starboard side of the Russian modules, there really aren't any big issues.

For comparison reasons, look at the original configuration with the SSP:

(http://iss.cet.edu/images/splash/large_ISS.jpg)
Title: Re: Russian Segment
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 10/01/2009 01:48 am
Interior of the MRM2:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-21/ndxpage14.html