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International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Indian Launchers => Topic started by: sanman on 03/22/2012 01:16 am

Title: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/22/2012 01:16 am
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=81367

Quote
Ministry of Science & Technology21-March, 2012 16:38 IST
Human Space Fight Program
Indian space research organization (ISRO) has initiated pre-project Research and Development activities focusing on critical technologies for Human Space Fight Program. The funds allocated towards this are to the tune of 145 crore rupees. The distribution of funds for the various technical activities are under the major heads, Crew Module System (61 crore rupees), Man rating of launch vehicle (27 crore rupees), study contracts with national and international institutions (36 crore rupees) and other activities like aerodynamics characterization and mission studies (21 crore rupees). This information was revealed by Minister of State in PMO Shri V Narayansamy in reply to a question in Lok Sabha today.

The Minister said that as part of the preparation of the Project Report of the Human Spaceflight Program, a study has been conducted on absorbing the program into the overall plans of ISRO without de-emphasizing other commitments.

DK/bs
(Release ID :81367)
Title: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: himijosh on 05/29/2012 04:36 pm
what is the criteria for selection of astronauts for indian human spaceflight?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 05/31/2012 07:17 pm
what is the criteria for selection of astronauts for indian human spaceflight?

They provide ISRO with the funds to pay for a human spaceflight program.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 06/12/2012 12:39 am
ISRO orbital vehicle rendition. From the picture, the thermal protection system (TPS) of the OV is using silica tiles for the OV sides and carbon-carbon for the bottom. SRE uses similar TPS.

Whats the benefit of using silica rather than metallic TPS? Which other OV uses silica TPS?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 06/12/2012 08:42 am
Looks similar to Dragon, but a bit smaller. An orbital module would be a handy addition, especially for Lunar missions. The crew module in the middle looks to be stretched. I like the three engine arrangement. Presumably, we have the main engine in the middle, with two backup engines at the sides.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 06/15/2012 06:44 pm
Looks similar to Dragon, but a bit smaller. An orbital module would be a handy addition, especially for Lunar missions. The crew module in the middle looks to be stretched. I like the three engine arrangement. Presumably, we have the main engine in the middle, with two backup engines at the sides.

Steve, the design is being upgraded by adding an orbital module. This particular version was destined to be carried the GSLV whose payload capacity is very limited. Now, the plan has changed and ISRO will use the GSLV-Mk-III with more than twice the capacity of the GSLV for the Human Spaceflight Program. Hence, we'll not see any radical changes to this design of the reentry module rather we will see an additional of orbital module.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: JazzFan on 06/17/2012 03:46 pm
I wouldn't expect to see the new launcher and spacecraft to be flying for nearly 10 years.  Sure would love to see them berthed/docked to the ISS some day.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/isro-scientists-praise-chinese-space-feat/266438-3.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 06/17/2012 08:56 pm
I wouldn't expect to see the new launcher and spacecraft to be flying for nearly 10 years.  Sure would love to see them berthed/docked to the ISS some day.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/isro-scientists-praise-chinese-space-feat/266438-3.html

launcher, gsLVM3 will have its first experimental flight next year. The crew module will be tested in coming 5 years. Things got delayed because of the cryo engine technology.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 06/19/2012 04:27 am
Things mostly got delayed when the Ministry did not provide the necessary funds to pay for the human spaceflight program above the "studies" level that we all know and love.

In many ways, the program was further ahead a few years back when the plan was to use the Soyuz as the basis for the design, with Russian help. But, no bucks, no Buck Rogers.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: PeterAlt on 06/24/2012 03:03 am
I'm so happy India has made the bold decision to do this! I hope they succeed and become the fourth nation to achieve this. According to this CNN article...
 
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/23/indian-science-why-you-should-care/?hpt=hp_c3 (http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/23/indian-science-why-you-should-care/?hpt=hp_c3)
 
...India's goal is set for 2016 for first launch. A bit ambitious, I suppose, but it's a real goal, backed with a real budget!
 
I wonder what standard they will choose for docking systems, or if they will develop their own. It will be interesting to see if they will arrange a visit to ISS, with the Chinese, or both.
 
Food for thought... What if they work out an agreement with China on an Indian module for the Chinese station... China is more desperate for international cooperation than the ISS partners are for seeking new members to their "exclusive club".
 
Also, don't forget that Israel recently signed a space cooperation agreement with India. This agreement includes all aspects of cooperation in space, including human space flight. So, it would be interesting to see what role, if any, Israel will play in the development.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 06/24/2012 02:53 pm

I wonder what standard they will choose for docking systems, or if they will develop their own. It will be interesting to see if they will arrange a visit to ISS, with the Chinese, or both.


ISRO is considering low impact docking (LID) mechanism for RVD. its planing for a RVD experiment using IMS-1 based satellites.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 06/24/2012 03:29 pm
There is no data to indicate that the ISRO human spaceflight program is approved for much more than paper studies.  In other words, I am not aware of any governmental "bold decision" to proceed with flight operations.


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 06/24/2012 06:14 pm
There is no data to indicate that the ISRO human spaceflight program is approved for much more than paper studies.  In other words, I am not aware of any governmental "bold decision" to proceed with flight operations.




It does not involve humans. It is just under consideration under technology demonstrator / experimental satellites. During the 12th plan period a number of small satellite (IMS class, 100kg) missions have been planned to demonstrate the emerging newer technologies. One of the major missions being the technology demonstration related to Docking
and Rendezvous. These satellites will be flown on the PSLV missions as
auxiliary or co-passenger satellites.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 06/24/2012 09:49 pm
There is no data to indicate that the ISRO human spaceflight program is approved for much more than paper studies.  In other words, I am not aware of any governmental "bold decision" to proceed with flight operations.

It does not involve humans. It is just under consideration under technology demonstrator / experimental satellites. During the 12th plan period a number of small satellite (IMS class, 100kg) missions have been planned to demonstrate the emerging newer technologies. One of the major missions being the technology demonstration related to Docking
and Rendezvous. These satellites will be flown on the PSLV missions as
auxiliary or co-passenger satellites.

Perhaps these posts would not be so confusing if they were not posted under the "Indian Human Spaceflight Program" topic.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: manboy on 06/25/2012 08:37 am

I wonder what standard they will choose for docking systems, or if they will develop their own. It will be interesting to see if they will arrange a visit to ISS, with the Chinese, or both.


ISRO is considering low impact docking (LID) mechanism for RVD. its planing for a RVD experiment using IMS-1 based satellites.
Don't you mean a International Docking System Standard (IDSS) mechanism?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: manboy on 06/25/2012 08:46 am
I'm so happy India has made the bold decision to do this! I hope they succeed and become the fourth nation to achieve this. According to this CNN article...
 
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/23/indian-science-why-you-should-care/?hpt=hp_c3 (http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/23/indian-science-why-you-should-care/?hpt=hp_c3)
 
...India's goal is set for 2016 for first launch. A bit ambitious, I suppose, but it's a real goal, backed with a real budget!
 
I wonder what standard they will choose for docking systems, or if they will develop their own. It will be interesting to see if they will arrange a visit to ISS, with the Chinese, or both.
 
Food for thought... What if they work out an agreement with China on an Indian module for the Chinese station... China is more desperate for international cooperation than the ISS partners are for seeking new members to their "exclusive club".
 
Also, don't forget that Israel recently signed a space cooperation agreement with India. This agreement includes all aspects of cooperation in space, including human space flight. So, it would be interesting to see what role, if any, Israel will play in the development.
The source for 2016 is from an article over two years old.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/08/2012 07:19 pm
Plasma wind tunnel test of ISRO crew module
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9858/hspcm.jpg

GSLV MK3 on the launch pad

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1624/gslvmk3.jpg)

Edit: Oversized image changed back to link. Use attachments please
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/12/2012 09:28 pm
hazy ISRO OV from a presentation slide I found on the net. Guessing from the letters on the vehicle, It might be called MANAV (MANned Aerospace Vehicle) which is a Sanskrit word meaning Human being in English.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/18/2012 08:54 pm
Human Space Program update: Engineering model of ISRO space suit under test.

parachutes for crew module deceleration system tested.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/25/2012 03:32 am
ISRO to modify PSLV PS4 (4th stage) into a service module for manned missions.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/25/2012 05:00 am
Interesting - so will the circumference/diameter of PS4 stage suggest the circumference/diameter of the Indian crew capsule?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/25/2012 05:13 am
Hmm..... looks like the Indian manned spacecraft is currently ahead of many of the American spacecrafts under design.  ::) However I don't have too many good things to say about it: the "Gemini / Soyuz DC on steroids" design is too limited in capability to do anything more than a few days of flying around in space (although this seems to be the point anyway), the rocket that it should go on has not log a full success since 2004 (!), and money for it is lacking (which means any human flights would be a decade away, as indicated by ISRO officials). Remember that even China took more than 10 years to get a man in space with the full support of the government....

I wonder why ISRO hasn't thought of contributing to the ISS program? It would have let them got a taste of human spaceflight experience before they go something bigger.....
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/25/2012 05:39 am
I wonder why ISRO hasn't thought of contributing to the ISS program? It would have let them got a taste of human spaceflight experience before they go something bigger.....

Uh, because the ISS is a white elephant which has sucked up the budget of NASA and other space programs? I don't see the Chinese eager to get onboard with the ISS, even if they were invited.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 12/25/2012 06:09 am
Thanks for that antriksh. I think that's a good common sense approach.

Although the current capsule design may be limited, the addition of an orbital module would make it much more capable.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/28/2012 03:46 pm
Tests for sending India's first manned mission into space are in "advanced" stages with the Indian Air Force (IAF) developing necessary parameters for selection of suitable candidates.

The tests will need another year to get fully validated and the selection process of the people for the manned mission will begin after that, Director General Medical Services (Air), Air Marshal Anil Behl told PTI here today.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/301536/iaf-developing-parameters-indias-manned.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/28/2012 10:58 pm
hazy ISRO OV from a presentation slide I found on the net. Guessing from the letters on the vehicle, It might be called MANAV (MANned Aerospace Vehicle) which is a Sanskrit word meaning Human being in English.

A clearer image after a lot of net research  :P, MANAV is not for Manned aerospace vehicle. ISRO OV for comparision.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/30/2012 09:00 pm
ISRO crew module ergonomic model and a zoomed in scaled plasma tunnel model for TPS testing.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/01/2013 02:33 pm
Here ya go - ran that MANAV image through a sharpener to reduce the blur.

This is the first time I've heard of this concept design. Any more details on it? What crew size would it accommodate? Why is that cylindrical section so long - what's in there?

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 01/01/2013 04:58 pm
Here ya go - ran that MANAV image through a sharpener to reduce the blur.

This is the first time I've heard of this concept design. Any more details on it? What crew size would it accommodate? Why is that cylindrical section so long - what's in there?



Thanks sanman! I found this pic from the attached slide on ISRO tech roadmap by BN suresh. I could not find any further details. My guess is this vehicle is combination of front section or reentry crew module + middle section or orbital module + aft section of service module. This might be a long term plan of a manned space vehicle for conducting micro gravity experiments and exploration.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/02/2013 12:10 am
Hmm, unlike Soyuz or Dragonlab, I don't see any solar panels on this MANAV concept - I wonder why. Maybe it wasn't fleshed out enough. I think everybody else has solar panels on their orbital designs, if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Khadgars on 01/02/2013 12:51 am
Quote
Hmm..... looks like the Indian manned spacecraft is currently ahead of many of the American spacecrafts under design.  ::)

Hrm? In reference to what? India has quite a ways to go before any such statements are worth while, thought I do wish them the best.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/02/2013 01:01 am
Quote
Hmm..... looks like the Indian manned spacecraft is currently ahead of many of the American spacecrafts under design.  ::)

Hrm? In reference to what? India has quite a ways to go before any such statements are worth while, thought I do wish them the best.

Oops..... it was meant to be a satire remark on how those Indian newspapers and even some people at ISRO speak of flying human in orbit and beyond as if they are already ready to go, when in fact such a decision hasn't been made yet and it won't reach its goal in at least this decade.....apparently it didn't work.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Khadgars on 01/02/2013 02:04 am
Quote
Hmm..... looks like the Indian manned spacecraft is currently ahead of many of the American spacecrafts under design.  ::)

Hrm? In reference to what? India has quite a ways to go before any such statements are worth while, thought I do wish them the best.

Oops..... it was meant to be a satire remark on how those Indian newspapers and even some people at ISRO speak of flying human in orbit and beyond as if they are already ready to go, when in fact such a decision hasn't been made yet and it won't reach its goal in at least this decade.....apparently it didn't work.

Oh haha no I probably didn't read the entire context of your comments, my apologies  :D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 03/23/2013 06:28 pm
Updates 2012-2013

As part of pre project activities, drop test of full scale Crew Module were conducted successfully to understand the deceleration characteristics and validate the estimated values of ‘g’ level, touchdown velocity and depth of penetration. Scale models of Crew Module have been realised for heat transfer studies, plasma wind tunnel tests and aero-ballistic range tests were conducted. Mortar based parachute ejection and deployment tests carried out in single and clustered configuration. Environmental simulation chamber has been realised for testing of ECLSS functional modules and flight suit systems. Flight suit has been successfully tested in vacuum chamber for leak rate assessment and material compatibility under
vacuum conditions.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: kicaj on 03/30/2013 12:21 pm
thanks for the upload, but what is the source of your information?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 04/01/2013 01:42 am
thanks for the upload, but what is the source of your information?

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/323016/isro-makes-strides-pre-project.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 04/26/2013 10:27 am
Left - Functional elements of flight suit
Right - Fabric layup in flight suit and LCG
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Soheil on 04/26/2013 05:19 pm
Is there any plan for a sub-orbital flight ?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 04/27/2013 05:19 pm
Is there any plan for a sub-orbital flight ?

No plans.

One of the many engineering models under going vacuum test

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 04/27/2013 05:53 pm
Yeah, I saw that on the ISRO Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/isro.org

https://www.facebook.com/isro.org/photos_stream

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 04/27/2013 06:09 pm
Yeah, I saw that on the ISRO Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/isro.org

https://www.facebook.com/isro.org/photos_stream



Do you want more?  ;D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Soheil on 04/27/2013 06:17 pm
Is there any plan for a sub-orbital flight ?

No plans.

step by step !!!  :)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 04/27/2013 06:24 pm
Very much!! first all required tech blocks need to be developed then only ISRO will take decision to conduct manned mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 04/27/2013 10:33 pm

Do you want more?  ;D

That last one was nice but a little small - do you have larger versions?

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 05/01/2013 02:37 pm
ISRO to modify PSLV PS4 (4th stage) into a service module for manned missions.

Update: A concept art of ISRO's Orbital vehicle (right image). It is based on a modified PSLV PS4 stage (left image).

From the concept art, the orbital vehicle will consists of following modules:

1) PS4 stage + service module 2) crew module
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 05/02/2013 06:17 am
Thanks for the update Antriksh.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: simonbp on 05/06/2013 05:58 am
So, if I understand the drawing, the PS4 stage provides all the propulsion (including presumably final insertion and deorbit), while service module is just radiators and solar power?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: manboy on 05/06/2013 07:41 am
Is there any plan for a sub-orbital flight ?

No plans.

One of the many engineering models under going vacuum test


Looks pretty similar to the Sokol suit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasa2explore/8570379388/
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 05/15/2013 02:32 am
Reverse Flow Multiple Nozzle Solid Rocket Motor prototype Static Test

Crew Escape System (CES) of Human Spaceflight Programme (HSP) calls for the design and development of a different class of special purpose motor. Crew Escape System (CES) is a reverse flow motor with multiple nozzles mounted on the forward end so as to keep hot exhaust gases as far from the crew module as possible. Low altitude Escape Motor (LEM) has to produce enough thrust to pull the crew module away from the launch vehicle within milliseconds of initiation. Low altitude Escape Motor (LEM) is part of a critical system that allows the astronaut in crew module to safely separate from the launch vehicle in the event of an emergency during launch pad operation or in the initial ascent phase of launch. The design of reverse flow solid rocket motor with multiple nozzles is a new and innovative task for ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 06/23/2013 04:10 pm
I have been looking at what is "out there" concerning the Indian manned programme and I am always left with the question "why?".

Of course, it will allow India to put a couple of people into orbit, circle the Earth and then return to Earth safely.   But if the maiden flight is more than ten years away then India might manage a few trips to ISS before that is disposed of (one way or another).

Maybe they hope to collaborate with the Chinese at that point?   Except that the Chinese will probably be looking at the Moon by the time the Indian spacecraft has finished its test programme.

Maybe by then NASA will have decided what it wants to do with people in space and India might see a role there?

So, what are the Indians going to do in orbit?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: AJA on 06/23/2013 05:49 pm
I have been looking at what is "out there" concerning the Indian manned programme and I am always left with the question "why?".

Of course, it will allow India to put a couple of people into orbit, circle the Earth and then return to Earth safely.   But if the maiden flight is more than ten years away then India might manage a few trips to ISS before that is disposed of (one way or another).

Maybe they hope to collaborate with the Chinese at that point?   Except that the Chinese will probably be looking at the Moon by the time the Indian spacecraft has finished its test programme.

Maybe by then NASA will have decided what it wants to do with people in space and India might see a role there?

So, what are the Indians going to do in orbit?

Well, it's not like we're going to run out of research topics for a LEO, microgravity lab. The scope for research (and indeed anything) is infinite.

Having said that, I would love, LOVE for wider international co-operation; and for each country to develop its niche.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 06/24/2013 07:42 am
I have been looking at what is "out there" concerning the Indian manned programme and I am always left with the question "why?".

Gee, why does any country do crewed exploration of space? I bet many at ISRO are enamoured with the exploration of space and would love to explore space with their own astronauts in their own spacecraft. The only thing holding them back from doing more is funding. As this funding comes from the government, a crewed space program is probably done for the same reasons that the US, Russia and China have their own programs. For prestige and pushing the technological capabilities of the country. As a bonus, some scientific research also gets done.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 06/25/2013 04:16 pm
Following on from my earlier post and the response by Steven Pietrobon, some further thoughts.

Yes, the piloted programme could be a political/ego programme for India.   But when they were flying men both the United States and the Soviet Union had plans for where those flights might lead.   While ego was a factor there were plans beyond "put someone in orbit and bring them back after going round the Earth a few times".

Similarly, videos released at the time of Shenzhou 5 indicated a possible plan to dock a Shenzhou with the orbital module from a previous mission (this option was dropped) and then to dock with the space space lab which we now know as Tiangong.

But have the Indians said anything beyond flying people in a can and returning them to Earth?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 06/26/2013 05:13 am
Yes, they are interested in human Lunar exploration. I haven't seen anything on an Indian LEO space station. Attached is a slide of what they have been studying.

Phase 1 Study: Earth Orbital Mission
Objective: Undertake a Human Space Flight Mission to carry a crew of two to LEO and return them safely to a predefined destination on Earth.

Phase 2 Study: Manned Lunar Missions

Also attached is the summary slide from Aero India 2011

* There are advantages of having astronauts in space rather than utilising unmanned machines alone for space exploration
* There are short term and long term gains from manned missions
* Various new technologies are needed for manned missions
* Human rating primarily concerned with manned safety, can be characterised as a basic approach to the design, testing and operations with thrust on safety of crew
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 06/26/2013 06:18 am
I have seen similar ISRO charts a decade ago with similarly large plans for space development and exploration.

No Bucks, no Buck Rogers. Until the government appropriate actual money for development, this is the same approach as Roskosmos charts showing Russian lunar landing plans.


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 06/28/2013 02:55 pm
Yet another rendering of HSP crew module
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chota on 08/16/2013 09:32 am
"Human space flight mission off ISRO priority list"

human spaceflight programme not in the Space Department's 12th plan (2012-2017)

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/human-space-flight-mission-off-isro-priority-list-406551
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 08/18/2013 06:39 am
"Human space flight mission off ISRO priority list"

human spaceflight programme not in the Space Department's 12th plan (2012-2017)

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/human-space-flight-mission-off-isro-priority-list-406551

The program is off the priority list but the planning stage is still ongoing. By 2017 ISRO will have all the basic technology to start a manned space program, then they can get serious about putting humans in space.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 08/19/2013 03:18 am
Any idea about pad abort test? ???
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 08/19/2013 03:27 am
Any idea about pad abort test? ???

Planned in Sept.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: AJA on 08/19/2013 06:45 pm
Any idea about pad abort test? ???

Planned in Sept.

I didn't even know we'd designed a launch escape system, let alone built it. Any details? For a start, is it reverse flow?

Also, which pad was it meant to be tested from (and might it be delayed because of the GSLV delay)?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/19/2013 09:11 pm
Go back a dozen or so posts in this thread, and they mention it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 08/25/2013 11:19 am
Indian OV rendering
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/26/2013 08:03 am
Thanks. Here's a colour corrected version (IrfanView -> Image -> Auto adjust colors).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 08/26/2013 01:34 pm
Thanks. Here's a colour corrected version (IrfanView -> Image -> Auto adjust colors).

Thanks!!! thats much better.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 08/28/2013 04:50 pm
HSP update: Crew module drop test
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: JSz on 08/28/2013 08:23 pm
Antriksh, what are sources of the pictures of crew capsule?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 10/12/2013 10:19 am
 Cabin Environment Simulation System (CESS) will be used for test and evaluation of space modules under regulated environmental conditions that may arise during various phases of manned mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/27/2013 10:53 am
Breaking news. ISRO and Ministry of Defense sign MoU for manned Moon mission. Possibly to train Vyomanauts.
Quote
4.35 pm: ISRO, Ministry of Defence sign MoU for India's manned moon mission.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delhi-cm-designate-kejriwal-reacts-to-headlines-today-sting-operation/1/333120.html

More details awaited.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/27/2013 11:29 am
Breaking news. ISRO and Ministry of Defense sign MoU for manned Moon mission. Possibly to train Vyomanauts.
Quote
4.35 pm: ISRO, Ministry of Defence sign MoU for India's manned moon mission.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delhi-cm-designate-kejriwal-reacts-to-headlines-today-sting-operation/1/333120.html


More details awaited.

Media sensationalism ?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/27/2013 11:33 am
Here comes the update:
Quote
According to sources, the MoD has tasked the Indian Air Force (IAF) to identify the qualitative requirements for the crew. The Director General of Armed Forces Medical Services is to draw out the requirements.
The process will include identifying five "most suitable" men for the mission
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/after-mars-mission-india-plans-manned-lunar-mission/1/333244.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/27/2013 01:17 pm
Breaking news. ISRO and Ministry of Defense sign MoU for manned Moon mission. Possibly to train Vyomanauts.
Quote
4.35 pm: ISRO, Ministry of Defence sign MoU for India's manned moon mission.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delhi-cm-designate-kejriwal-reacts-to-headlines-today-sting-operation/1/333120.html


More details awaited.

Media sensationalism ?

Could be ;D I guess it's actually about identifying and training crew for manned mission (not manned Moon mission).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/27/2013 05:09 pm
Breaking news. ISRO and Ministry of Defense sign MoU for manned Moon mission. Possibly to train Vyomanauts.
Quote
4.35 pm: ISRO, Ministry of Defence sign MoU for India's manned moon mission.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delhi-cm-designate-kejriwal-reacts-to-headlines-today-sting-operation/1/333120.html


More details awaited.

Media sensationalism ?

Could be ;D I guess it's actually about identifying and training crew for manned mission (not manned Moon mission).

 ;D ;D

You know this is Indian media
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/27/2013 08:42 pm
Other outlets are picking it up:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/space/mod-tasked-to-recruit-crew-for-isro-s-man-to-moon-mission_899887.html

Quote
New Delhi: The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has been tasked to recruit crew for ISRO's "ambitious" Man to Moon Mission, Air Marshal A K Behl, Director General, Medical Services (Air) today said.

MoD and ISRO have signed an MoU for the project. "We have collaborated with ISRO a couple of years ago," he said.

The Director General for Armed Forces Services (DGAFS), who is looking after the project, is also also supposed to asses whether the crew can maintain the spacecraft well and come back safely.

"Man to Moon is an ambitious project started by the ISRO. Since the Indian Air Force has domain expertise in aviation and in other aspects related to space, we have collaborated with them. The Institute of Aviation Studies Bangalore is also involved in this project," Behl added.

Rakesh Sharma, a former Indian Air Force pilot who flew aboard Soyuz T-11 as part of the Inter-cosmos programme by the USSR was the first Indian to travel in space.

PTI

They're using the particular phrase "Man to Moon" mission. I assume it's just a feasibility study.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: ss1_3 on 12/28/2013 07:43 am
Other outlets are picking it up:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/space/mod-tasked-to-recruit-crew-for-isro-s-man-to-moon-mission_899887.html

Quote
New Delhi: The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has been tasked to recruit crew for ISRO's "ambitious" Man to Moon Mission, Air Marshal A K Behl, Director General, Medical Services (Air) today said.

MoD and ISRO have signed an MoU for the project. "We have collaborated with ISRO a couple of years ago," he said.

The Director General for Armed Forces Services (DGAFS), who is looking after the project, is also also supposed to asses whether the crew can maintain the spacecraft well and come back safely.

"Man to Moon is an ambitious project started by the ISRO. Since the Indian Air Force has domain expertise in aviation and in other aspects related to space, we have collaborated with them. The Institute of Aviation Studies Bangalore is also involved in this project," Behl added.

Rakesh Sharma, a former Indian Air Force pilot who flew aboard Soyuz T-11 as part of the Inter-cosmos programme by the USSR was the first Indian to travel in space.

PTI

They're using the particular phrase "Man to Moon" mission. I assume it's just a feasibility study.

Here's an interview with the Air force top brass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Ml3qhjMv8
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 12/29/2013 02:37 am
Thanks for that video.

Picking five astronauts for their suitability for a Lunar mission.
Cost is said to be 10,000 crore rupee (100 billion rupee or $1.6B).
Currently verifying data.
Sought inputs from other countries.
Timeline as asked but no answer given.
Commander likely to be a fighter pilot, with other crew a doctor, engineer or scientist.
Interview with first Indian cosmonaut Wing Commander Rakesh Sharma.
Five years ago there was talk that project had been sanctioned but had been put in cold storage up to now.
Exciting to hear that program has been restarted.
Got to have launcher capability which we presently don't have, manrated systems which we need to test, then send astronauts into Earth orbit, before going to the Moon.
Reporter says around 2015-1016 send unmanned mission to Moon. Stage 2 is manned mission to Moon!
Initial payment of 10 crore ($1.6M) has been made. "This is no flight of fancy any more."

Well, I think there is some hyperbole from the reporters, but the two military officials certainly weren't denying the astronaut selection was for a Lunar mission. At this stage, picking some astronauts is the easy part. Building your Moon rocket and the Lunar spaceships is where it gets expensive. I can't also help think that some of this is in reaction to China's Chang'e 3 spacecraft landing on the Moon.

Attached is a slide previously posted on NSF showing a study of a Lunar landing mission. It would be dual launch. The first with a 3075 t vehicle to put the Earth departure stage (EDS) and Lunar module (LM) into orbit. The second with a 1690 t vehicle to put the Command Module (CM) and Service Module (SM) into orbit, basically following the Constellation architecture, except that the SM performs Lunar orbit insertion (LOI) like in Apollo.

The first vehicle has eight 230 t solid boosters, an 800 t kerolox core, and 60 t hydrolox upper stage.
The second vehicle has four 230 t solid boosters, a 500 t kerolox core and 60 t hydrolox upper stage.
CM is 6 t (similar to Apollo), SM is 25 t, LM is 17 t and EDS is 67 t. Need to develop docking technology and 2 MN kerolox engine.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/29/2013 10:40 am
Heavy launch vehicle concept to be used for Moon and Mars

- All cryogenic propellant

- SC460 stage configuration will also be used for TSTO's first stage.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/30/2013 01:53 am
Indian scientists eagerly pitch their powerpoint rockets with alacrity. What I always notice is that everytime some other country does something big, it leads to a new round of powerpoint presentations at ISRO. When Constellation was announced, that's when ISRO scientists began making the rounds with their poor man's Constellation idea. When SLS was announced, then this other big fat rocket began appearing on Indian drawing boards.

Now that China's landed on the Moon, it seems to have again triggered a buzz about the Moon in Indian circles.
It's not so much that ISRO wants to imitate others, it's more that they use the advancements made by others as an opportunity to light a fire under politicians, and make them feel like India could do more than it's currently doing. While that doesn't amount to a coherent plan, it does at least help to lay preparatory groundwork as a springboard for any plan that might eventually take shape. At least with these feasibility studies, people can hold out the hope that some further path forward is possible.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 12/30/2013 05:10 am
Thanks for that slide antriksh. Do you know what the Lunar mode is going to be? 20 t in LLO is not enough for both a lander and a capsule, unless perhaps they plan on using a cryogenic stage for staged Lunar descent.

The new vehicle has four 460 t kerolox first stage boosters, 800 t kerolox second stage core, 460 t kerolox third stage and 100 t hydrolox fourth stage (3200 t total). Perhaps they are going to follow NASA's current Lunar plan with two launchers, one with the lander and one with the capsule. That is a bit of over kill in my opinion. Either have one 120-130 t vehicle that can do the mission in a single launch, or two 60-65 t vehicles that can do the mission in two launches. The latter would be my preferred option.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: savuporo on 12/30/2013 06:12 am
Thanks for that slide antriksh. Do you know what the Lunar mode is going to be? 20 t in LLO is not enough for both a lander and a capsule, unless perhaps they plan on using a cryogenic stage for staged Lunar descent.
Are you sure 20t wouldnt be enough if they would be planning some really barebones stuff like Lunar Gemini plans ?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/30/2013 12:13 pm
Thanks for that slide antriksh. Do you know what the Lunar mode is going to be? 20 t in LLO is not enough for both a lander and a capsule, unless perhaps they plan on using a cryogenic stage for staged Lunar descent.

The new vehicle has four 460 t kerolox first stage boosters, 800 t kerolox second stage core, 460 t kerolox third stage and 100 t hydrolox fourth stage (3200 t total). Perhaps they are going to follow NASA's current Lunar plan with two launchers, one with the lander and one with the capsule. That is a bit of over kill in my opinion. Either have one 120-130 t vehicle that can do the mission in a single launch, or two 60-65 t vehicles that can do the mission in two launches. The latter would be my preferred option.


I haven't come across any info on lunar mode, but would like to correct here that the HLV is a 3 stage LV comprising of :

1: 4SC460 (boosters)+ SC800 (First Stage)
2: SC460 (Second Stage)
3:C100 (Third Stage)

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 12/31/2013 02:54 am
If the boosters separate before the core is depleted, then technically its a four stage vehicle. If the boosters and core separate at the same time, then its a three stage vehicle.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/31/2013 11:15 am
Wow, here comes a clarification from ISRO about "Man to Moon" mission hype:
Quote
Media reports on "Manned Mission to Moon"

Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has entered into a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Institute of Aerospace Medicine (IAM), Indian Air Force, Bangalore in March 2009 to carry out
i) Basic research/studies on Human Physiological and Psychological requirements for Human Space Flight crew and

ii) For augmenting/updating existing facilities at IAM to cater to ISRO's Human Space Flight Programme as a pre project Research & Development activity.

ISRO currently does not have any project on "Man to Moon". The scope of the MOU between ISRO and IAM does not envisage recruitment of crew for ISRO.

http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Dec31_2013
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: ss1_3 on 12/31/2013 01:00 pm
Unbelievable!! Why on earth did those two air force officers went on air to talk about it?? Hopefully, they'll be grilled by IAF with an explanation sought for their statements.  >:(
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/31/2013 01:29 pm
No 'Man to Moon' Mission, Says ISRO

http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/no-man-to-moon-mission-says-isro-113123100616_1.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 01/08/2014 05:28 pm
Here's some tidbit about Indian human spaceflight program:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692
Quote
"As far as human space flight is concerned, we are just at the beginning- at the moment we are studying the critical technologies required for that like- crew escape system, crew module... these are the things we have not done in the past," Mr Radhakrishnan said... "As and when we take up a programme of human space flight- this will help us."

Quote
He said "in the GSLV Mark III - the experimental mission is going to happen in April 2014..."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/08/2014 09:37 pm
Yeah, other outlets confirming the same announcement:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379428/human-space-flight-work-underway.html

Quote
India’s human space flight (HSF) programme is some years away, but preliminary work has begun, Isro Chairman K Radhakrishnan told reporters at the Isro Satellite Integration and Testing Establishment, Marathhalli, on Wednesday.

Studies on crew vehicle, escape system and re-entry into earth’s atmosphere are underway and funds have been released for initial work. “The HSF programme has begun. It is in the initial stage. We have to learn and make certain technologies especially for re-entry into earth’s atmosphere. These are critical technologies and have to be mastered to obtain 100 per cent accuracy.”

www.ptinews.com/news/4301707_Hman-spaceflight-prog-is-at-beginning-stage--ISRO-.html


It looks like the cryo engine success has cleared the way for more progress on human spaceflight and reusable launch technologies.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chota on 01/09/2014 08:14 am
Is the media confusing us with "Man to Moon"  instead of "Man to Space" ?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/09/2014 02:08 pm
The media are confused themselves - mainly due to their desire to say anything that gets them more viewers.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 01/11/2014 02:36 am
ISRO to test crew module in GSLV Mk3 X1, in April 2014:
Quote
When GSLV Mk-III will be tested in three months' time, the heavy-d­uty rocket will fly the module to an altitude of about 120 km to see if it is safe for human flight. “GSLV Mk-III will carry the cr­ew module to study re-entry and thermal behaviour,” said Isro chairman K Radhakrishn­an here on Friday.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379831/india-test-human-crew-space.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 01/12/2014 03:34 am
Crew Module status from ISRO 2012-13 annual report (http://www.isro.org/pdf/Annual%20Report%202012-13.pdf):
Quote
Pre Project activities of Human Spaceflight Programme (HSP)
The objective of Human Spaceflight Programme is to undertake a human spaceflight mission to carry a crew of two to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) and return them safely to a predefined destination on earth.

The programme is proposed to be implemented in defined phases. Currently, the pre project activities are progressing with a focus on the development of critical technologies for subsystems such as Crew Module (CM), Environmental control and Life Support System (ECLSS), Crew Escape System, etc.

As part of pre project activities, drop test of full scale Crew Module were conducted successfully to understand the deceleration characteristics and validate the estimated values of ‘g’ level, touchdown velocity and depth of penetration. Scale models of Crew Module have been realised for heat transfer studies, plasma wind tunnel tests and aero-ballistic range tests were conducted. Mortar based parachute ejection and deployment tests carried out in single and clustered configuration. Environmental simulation chamber has been realised for testing of ECLSS functional modules and flight suit systems. Flight suit has been successfully tested in vacuum chamber for leak rate assessment and material compatibility under vacuum conditions.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: AJA on 01/12/2014 05:54 am
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379831/india-test-human-crew-space.html

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation had developed specialised space travel chamb­ers covered with an indigenous heat-resistant tile to carry human crew to space.

Tiles? As opposed to an entirely ablative thermal coating? Does this mean that the crew pressure vessel, and the internal avionics etc. are intended to be reusable?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 01/12/2014 10:40 am

Tiles? As opposed to an entirely ablative thermal coating? Does this mean that the crew pressure vessel, and the internal avionics etc. are intended to be reusable?

I would say they won't be reused. The thing is there has been a lot of research that has gone into heat resistant tiles. Why heat resistant tiles? Aimed at India's RLV program. So, I think ISRO is doing a good thing by making use of technologies on which they have already done a significant amount of work rather than start from the scratch.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 01/12/2014 12:45 pm
Latest in ISRO research  from papers in SAROD 2013

1) Aerodynamics of Separating Crew Module from Crew Escape Vehicle

2) Experimental Investigation of Impacts of Deviations in Reentry Thermal Protection Systems Using Plasma Wind Tunnel Facility


3) Studies of Heat Flux and Surface Pressure Distribution on Blunt Bodies under Simulated Reentry Thermal Regimes Using Plasma Wind Tunnel Facility

4) Experimental investigation of Aero Induced Fluctuating Pressure Environments on Various Configurations of a Generic Launch Vehicle Forebody

5) Hypersonic Flow Over Hemisphere Blunt Nose Body with Aerodisk

6) Qualification of Repaired Ceramic Tile Thermal Protection System (TPS) for Re-entry Environment

7) Heat Flux Computations Over a Typical Re-entry Crew Module Under Shock Tunnel Conditions

8 ) Robust Lateral-Directional Flight Control Design for Reentry Vehicles

9) Assessment of Wind Turbulence Effects on Re-entry Vehicle using 6DOF Trajectory Simulator

10) Merit and Demerits of Central Sting Over Twin Sting on the Aerodynamics of Launch Vehicles
Using CFD

11) Investigation of Jet Effect on Aerodynamics of a Launch Vehicle in Supersonic Freestream

12) Analysis of Fluctuating Pressure over a Double Delta Wing in Separated Flows (related to RLV)

13) Flush Air Data System (FADS) Algorithm for Onboard Implementation (related to RLV)

14) Aerodynamic Parameter Estimation of Re-entry Vehicle in Longitudinal Plane using Filter Error
Method with Multistep Inputs (related to RLV)

15) Flow Field Analysis of Rocket Motor Employing Twin Engines, Over a Jet Deflector during the
Static Tests
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Prober on 01/12/2014 09:39 pm
I'm impressed with what India is getting for their cash investment.   Sure more cash is wanted/needed.  But for the resources available the finished work is impressive.
All we need do is look at India's Mars mission.  ;) 
 
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/13/2014 12:48 am
I was recently shocked to learn that ISRO's budget is the same as China's space agency. In which case, China's certainly getting a lot out of the budget. But even still, a country of their economic size and level of development should be spending much more on space than India is. I wonder why they don't spend more, when they can easily afford to?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: hop on 01/13/2014 02:08 am
I was recently shocked to learn that ISRO's budget is the same as China's space agency.
Source? I would strongly suspect this isn't an apples to apples comparison.

It's quite clear China expends far more resources on space: More launches, bigger rockets, more launch centers, and active HSF program...

If you are comparing CNSA to ISRO, this might explain it because AFAIK much of Chinese space activity is done by the PLA, while Indian space activity really is all under ISRO. China is also much less transparent about actual budgets.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/13/2014 03:01 am
This is where I read it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_agencies#Budgets


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 01/13/2014 03:05 am
This is where I read it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_agencies#Budgets

seriously?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: faramund on 01/13/2014 05:12 am
This is where I read it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_agencies#Budgets

seriously?
Although to be fair, the ISRO figure is probably reasonably accurate, in the past I've read their budget documents and they are close to the given figure.

China is much more opaque. The basis of wikis figure, is a Euroconsult report, and I can't say anything else is widely available that gives any figure that's clearly better. Although to have a program the size that they have for ~$1b does seem odd (although taking into account PPP its more like $2b)

Perhaps one reason for the difference is that ISROs budget seems to be on a sharply rising trajectory, and so they haven't had this much money to work with for very long, and if they get GSLV3 and a human spacecraft project in the next few years, they will seem much more similar to China.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/13/2014 06:50 am

Tiles? As opposed to an entirely ablative thermal coating? Does this mean that the crew pressure vessel, and the internal avionics etc. are intended to be reusable?

I would say they won't be reused. The thing is there has been a lot of research that has gone into heat resistant tiles. Why heat resistant tiles? Aimed at India's RLV program. So, I think ISRO is doing a good thing by making use of technologies on which they have already done a significant amount of work rather than start from the scratch.

Ablative is not that difficult, and India has researched phenolic coatings, etc. SRE-1 had the silica tiles on it as well as the phenolic ablative coating:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Capsule_Recovery_Experiment

Quote
To withstand the heat of re-entry, the cone-shaped SRE-1 has a heat shield composed of silica tiles over much of the surface, and an ablative nose cap of carbon-phenolic composite. ISRO is also working on technology to manufacture carbon-carbon composite heat shields, which, along with the silica tiles tested with the SRE-1, could find use in future reusable spacecraft such as ISRO's planned Reusable Launch Vehicle.

Well, if SpaceX can seek to re-use capsules, why can't ISRO work towards that? Their goal is to keep costs down, after all, and reusability is a big help for that.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: AJA on 01/13/2014 02:44 pm
ISRO isn't budget limited.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692 (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692)

Quote
... Parliamentary Standing Committee on Science & Technology, Environment and Forest that reviewed ISRO programmes in Bangalore ....

Speaking to reporters after the review, Parliamentary Standing Committee Chairman T Subbarami Reddy commended the recent achievements of ISRO for the successful launch of Mars Orbit Mission and GSLV-D5 with indigenous cryogenic engine.

Stating that adequate funds are being allocated for the scientific sector in the country, he said "we must focus more towards developing good scientists."

He said young people should be encouraged towards science and scientists should be given special salaries, special incentives, and special encouragements. His committee is recommending the same, Mr Reddy added.

Sure, you can contest the neutrality of the statement, given that it comes from the one of the guys ostensibly controlling the purse strings within the government (though..not really...given that he's in the Rajya Sabha) (EDIT: I take that back, his total net worth is at 258 crores+, third, amongst current RS members (http://myneta.info/rajsab09aff/). I assume that gives him some clout in terms of bank-rolling election expenditure), but
a) he's an industrialist himself (So, some experience with how large funds translate into work there)
b) the sentiment was echoed in the AMA that the three ISRO scientists (albeit recent graduate joinees, as opposed to old hands) did.
http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/cejk5ov (http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/cejk5ov) (Although, they did ask for PRIS benefits - http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/ceiogeb (http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/ceiogeb))
c) Other luminaries have also mentioned (CNR Rao, and Dr M S Swaminathan, at NDTV's 25 Indian Legends event, being the most recent examples) that bottlenecks to scientific development lay in talent recruitment and retention -- education, and attracting people to science.

Now, it's probably tempting for people to tie this to funding: with the argument that more funding allows the provision of competitive, attractive compensation packages. But, R&D demands utmost cognitive investment. Incentivising people will not work. As Dan Pink says (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc), "Pay them enough to take the issue of money off the table", and then clear the path for them to express their internal drive.

Personally, I don't recall ISRO ever having to stop the pursuit of a project, or redact a program because the government withdrew funding for it. I think they've always managed to get the money, whenever they've submitted a request.


The programs, and the scientific sector in the country is know-how limited, and promulgating scientific literacy as well as STEM fascination is where, IMO, the thrust ought to be directed. We've always known that rockets are awesome for that :)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: faramund on 01/13/2014 06:17 pm
ISRO isn't budget limited.

What does this mean? I've heard that during the battle of Britain, that Spitfire production became essentially budget unlimited (i.e. they could spend anything, but there were other limiting resources).

Following on.. do you mean, the government says.. develop say GSLV3, and they can spend whatever it takes?

Just some quick googling...
http://rt.com/news/india-space-satellite-budget-331/
has
Though its budget is less than one-tenth that of NASA's, it has increased every year since the early 2000s, jumping from $591 million in 2004 to 2005, to $1.3 billion in 2012 to 2013.

and at
http://www.isro.org/scripts/account.aspx

there appear to be budget documents.

In particular, the Fund Allocation link, gives a pdf that contains
Budget at a Glance
(Rs. in Crores)
Sl.
No AREA BE 2012-2013 RE 2012-2013 BE 2013-2014
1 Space Technology 4068.11 2885.38 3869.65
2 Space Applications 758.59 602.52 686.47
3 INSAT Operational 1220.87 960.70 1580.21
4 Space Sciences 471.75 330.13 521.29
5 Direction & Administration
and Other Programmes 195.68 101.27 134.38
Grand Total 6715.00 4880.00 6792.00

Anyway.. I'm curious?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/13/2014 06:24 pm
I think that what AJA meant was that ISRO's current limitations and obstacles are not due to its budget, primarily. Its main obstacles and challenges are in other areas. Although certainly, anyone will always want a larger budget to do more, it's also a matter of putting existing resources to best use.

On the issue of merit-based pay, which AJA and one of the 3 ISRO engineers mentioned, I really think that would be great. Currently, ISRO recruitment is compliant with ethnic affirmative action quota reservation policies, as required under Indian law. However, promotion and advancement is supposed to be based on merit.

Anyway, I realize it's off-topic. Not sure whether such discussion belongs in the Policy forum, since that mainly seems be centered on US policy. I dunno if we can have our own mini policy thread under this Indian launchers forum? Bah, anyway merit pay is only one small aspect of Indian space policy discussion.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: faramund on 01/13/2014 06:48 pm
Thanks sanman, that makes sense ;D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/13/2014 10:48 am
Crew Module structural assembly


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 02/14/2014 03:16 am
HAL hands over crew module assembly to ISRO:
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/human-space-flight-prog-hal-hands-over-crew-module-assembly-to-isro/article5685195.ece
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/14/2014 06:58 am
Human space flight abort initiation stages

1. Abort to earth using Crew Escape System

2. Abort to earth using service module propulsion

3. Abort to orbit
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: kicaj on 02/14/2014 05:55 pm
whether capsule will have a hatch for connection with another object? for example ISS?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/15/2014 02:10 am
whether capsule will have a hatch for connection with another object? for example ISS?

Its planned, but when will it be in place can not say. ISRO is planning to conduct RVD experiment with two satellites. I guess, this will help in development of docking interface. Still a long way to go. We need to first send humans to space.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars_J on 02/15/2014 03:51 am
Crew Module structural assembly

Thanks for the pictures. It looks like in interesting hybrid between Dragon and Orion. (The outside lines are close to Dragon, but the structural components/parts are located closer to the way they are on Orion)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/15/2014 11:16 am
Crew Module structural assembly

Thanks for the pictures. It looks like in interesting hybrid between Dragon and Orion. (The outside lines are close to Dragon, but the structural components/parts are located closer to the way they are on Orion)

It seems module is divided into 6 compartments. Each compartment for a crew or subsystems?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: newpylong on 02/16/2014 12:13 am
Very cool. Best of luck ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 02/16/2014 04:14 am
It seems module is divided into 6 compartments. Each compartment for a crew or subsystems?

I think these are structural beams and not compartments. These could be to take the load from the escape tower during launch and abort.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/16/2014 06:00 am
It seems module is divided into 6 compartments. Each compartment for a crew or subsystems?

I think these are structural beams and not compartments. These could be to take the load from the escape tower during launch and abort.

I mean the beams are dividing the module into 6 sectors. Perhaps each sector will house a crew or subsytems? I looked into Orion module design and could found 3 beams.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: heinkel174 on 02/16/2014 06:50 am
That's not an Orion capsule, real capsule does not have those columns. It looks like the boilerplate used in Ares-I X launch.

I believe the Indian craft we saw here is also a boilerplate.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars_J on 02/16/2014 06:57 am
Yep, I think those columns are just extra structural support for the early test flight, to simplify matters.

A real flight version with crew would need those to be relocated or removed, otherwise there would be usable cabin volume.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/16/2014 10:27 am
That's not an Orion capsule, real capsule does not have those columns. It looks like the boilerplate used in Ares-I X launch.

I believe the Indian craft we saw here is also a boilerplate.

Thanks
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 02/19/2014 08:21 am
Some tidbits:
http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=national&id=NN4455

Quote
ISRO is now also developing Space Suit for astronauts. Crew modules are also being developed simultaneously.
Quote
In a written reply, he told the House that configuration design, thermal protection system, water impact tests and plasma wind tunnel tests of the crew module have been completed. Another notable success is the completion of pressure and mobility tests, vacuum chamber tests and material compatibility, the Minister added.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: plutogno on 02/19/2014 09:21 am
have any objective of the Indian manned spaceflight program been revealed?
does it have any particular objective other than national pride?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/19/2014 10:14 am
Space Suit Engineering Prototype

EPs help in technology development and demonstration. Final design will be based on the EPs test results
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/19/2014 10:18 am
have any objective of the Indian manned spaceflight program been revealed?
does it have any particular objective other than national pride?

This I think is the weakest point in the plan - what next after flying people for several orbits? The Indians aren't in the ISS project right now and doesn't seems to have any target in mind right now. Keep in mind that the Chinese always wanted to get to operating a space station back when their human spaceflight project was approved in the early 1990s!  ::)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/20/2014 03:39 am
That's your opinion, and once again it's not universally shared. I think India has its own "flexible path" agenda on human spaceflight. There are plans to do orbital rendezvous with unmanned satellites, which can be used as the basis for farther missions.

Space is seen as valuable for its resource potential, and some kind of human presence will be required to see it through.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 02/20/2014 11:50 am
have any objective of the Indian manned spaceflight program been revealed?
does it have any particular objective other than national pride?

This I think is the weakest point in the plan - what next after flying people for several orbits? The Indians aren't in the ISS project right now and doesn't seems to have any target in mind right now. Keep in mind that the Chinese always wanted to get to operating a space station back when their human spaceflight project was approved in the early 1990s!  ::)

First of all Human Spaceflight has almost zero practical uses and that shouldn't change for at least a few decades.

Now that we have this in mind, all the so called objectives like building a space station doesn't make complete sense. No country would pour the kind of resources needed for HSF just for "carrying microgravity experiments". The objective here is to have the technology required for HSF so that India doesn't stay behind when this technology has some practical use in the future. This the main objective for any country pursuing such projects.

Building Space stations etc are just temporary objectives with national pride and technological capability being the main ones. If the objective being discussed here is indeed the temporary objective then India has said that they have plans for a manned lunar landing and what not.
 

 
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 02/20/2014 03:17 pm
Perhaps I wrong, but ISRO does not seem to have actually approved this program. For what I can tell, there has been approval of study and early design, but not full approval for a flight program.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: QuantumG on 02/20/2014 08:59 pm
First of all Human Spaceflight has almost zero practical uses and that shouldn't change for at least a few decades.

You mean, other than the vaccines that have been developed on the ISS, right? .. not to mention all the pharmaceutical work done on earlier Shuttle missions.

There'd be a lot more of it going on if it wasn't so expensive, and controlled by NASA.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: plutogno on 02/21/2014 05:22 am
You mean, other than the vaccines that have been developed on the ISS, right? .. not to mention all the pharmaceutical work done on earlier Shuttle missions.

I don't know of a single existing vaccine developed on the ISS. I would welcome a publication reference, if you have one.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 02/21/2014 03:22 pm
International Space Station Plays Role in Vaccine Development

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/benefits/vaccine_development_prt.htm

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 02/21/2014 05:20 pm
First of all Human Spaceflight has almost zero practical uses and that shouldn't change for at least a few decades.

You mean, other than the vaccines that have been developed on the ISS, right? .. not to mention all the pharmaceutical work done on earlier Shuttle missions.

There'd be a lot more of it going on if it wasn't so expensive, and controlled by NASA.

Point taken. I said "First of all Human Spaceflight has almost zero practical uses and that shouldn't change for at least a few decades." But I did mention microgravity experiments.

I am not claiming HSF has zero uses in the real world. The question here is whether HSF currently has enough practical uses so that national pride and technology showcase stop being the major drivers for it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 02/21/2014 05:40 pm
This is all grist for a discussion in another thread.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: lucspace on 02/25/2014 04:27 pm
ISRO’s Crew Module Flight in May-June: http://defence.pk/threads/indian-space-capabilities.4373/page-222
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Sridhar on 02/25/2014 09:14 pm
Leaving aside national pride (and that is clearly a part of most if not all national human spaceflight plans), one objective of such high profile missions is to generate interest and excitement in young people and attract them to work for the space organization. ISRO pays Government salaries to its employees, and while the perks are good, the overall compensation is nowhere close to what the individuals can earn in the private sector within India, leave along working outside India.  What has kept its turnover rates manageable is partly the excitement and pride in one's job that working for ISRO can evoke.  That is enhanced by high profile missions like the planetary exploration missions and human spaceflight.  Beyond ISRO, there are spillover benefits for science as a whole.  Finally, national pride can have its plus sides too.

The costs and benefits of such a strategy can of course be debated.  But it is an important part of the considerations for such missions on the part of the decision makers.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Sridhar on 02/25/2014 09:18 pm
antriksh:

Thanks for posting the first picture that at least I have come across of the engineering prototype of the space suit.  What is the source for the photograph - is this in the public domain and can this be posted elsewhere (an if yes, who should be given the credit for the photo).  Also, which agency is involved in making and testing the space suit?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/26/2014 10:53 am
Quote
"The structure is in Thiruvananthapuram and our team has begun the process of instrumentation, likely to be completed in four to six weeks."

Quote
"The instruments that need to go in are those related to crew support, navigation, guidance and control systems and so on," the official said, adding that the agency will not be testing life support system crucial for any manned mission this time.

Quote
agency is in a parallel manner developing a specialized parachute, which will be instrumental in bringing the crew module back safely

Quote
Upon successful testing of the crew module, the space agency will commence testing of the life support system, environmental control and crew escape system.

The module is reusable as per the source below

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Isro-takes-another-step-towards-human-spaceflight/articleshow/31016566.cms

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 02/26/2014 10:59 am
antriksh:

Thanks for posting the first picture that at least I have come across of the engineering prototype of the space suit.  What is the source for the photograph - is this in the public domain and can this be posted elsewhere (an if yes, who should be given the credit for the photo).  Also, which agency is involved in making and testing the space suit?

Source was ISRO but not public  (required some weekend research).  you can post it anywhr you ant and give credit to ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Websorber on 02/28/2014 06:35 am
Article from http://www.space-travel.com

"India unveils its own astronaut crew capsule, plans test launch"

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/India_unveils_its_own_astronaut_crew_capsule_plans_test_launch_999.html (http://www.space-travel.com/reports/India_unveils_its_own_astronaut_crew_capsule_plans_test_launch_999.html)


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 03/13/2014 02:11 am
Successful testing of Parachute Recovery System for Human Space Programme

Aerial Delivery Research and Development Establishment (ADRDE), Agra, successfully conducted testing of Parachute Recovery System for Human Space Programme of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) on 18 January 2014 by para dropping simulated load weighing 5 ton against actual system requirement of 3.6 ton at Agra Drop Zone using IL-76 Aircraft.

The trial preceded a series of eight successful sub-systems level air-drop tests from AN-32 aircraft. The system has been designed for safe landing of a crew module of 3.6 ton weight class on sea surface. The recovery system consists of a pilot parachute, a drogue parachute and a main parachute.

In this simulated test, with integrated parachute system, the simulated load was extracted from IL-76
aircraft by extractor parachute. Subsequently a drogue parachute was deployed which in turn deployed the
main parachute. This test successfully verified the sequence of parachute deployment, configuration of the
parachute, deployment bag and other sub-systems using onboard instrumentation. ADRDE has also successfully demonstrated this technology by recovering a 500 kg class actual module for ISRO in 2007. The successful test was backed by various technologies, viz., high performance textiles, aerodynamic design, configuration optimisation, fabrication, integration, testing, validation, etc.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/13/2014 05:38 am
A capsule mass of only 3.6 t is pretty good. I though it was going to be much heavier.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 04/01/2014 02:04 am
Prospects for India's Human Spaceflight Program

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2481/1
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 07/11/2014 04:11 am
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/budget-2014/union-budget-2014/GSLV-Mark-3-gets-Rs-161-crore-boost/articleshow/38175979.cms

Quote
The amount earmarked for the human space flight programme has also gone up: from Rs 9.19 crore to Rs 17.05 crore. This project, too, has been considerably delayed and Isro officials hope the new government will give its green signal at the earliest.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 07/16/2014 03:34 am
Quote
The SAC scientists are at critical stage of devising sensors in the capsule that will help sustain humans on board — keeping track of their health, regulate flow of life-supporting gases like carbon dioxide released by humans, supply right amount of oxygen and maintain the right atmospheric pressure within capsule. It will also regulate presence of other gases like methane and nitrogen.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Gujarat-lab-making-life-support-system-sensors-for-Indias-space-mission/articleshow/38453383.cms
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 08/05/2014 02:06 pm
Update:

1) Functioning of newly developed Head-end Mounted Safe Arm (HMSA) for solid motors in Crew Escape System was successfully demonstrated.

2)  A parachute ejection test with Mortar was carried out at Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory (TBRL), Chandigarh wherein sequential deployment of pilot parachute and drogue parachute was demonstrated.

3) As part of deceleration system qualification, main and drogue parachutes, in modified and improved pack cover configuration, was drop tested at ADRDE, Agra. Parachute Reefing Line Cutter [RLC] of main parachute was realised and development tests were also carried out.

4) Gas analysers for environment monitoring of crew cabin, cabin lighting system with intensity control and MEMS based barometric sensor have been developed.

5) Wind tunnel testing of Scale model of Crew escape system was completed in National Aerospace Laboratories, Bengaluru.

A unique state-of-the-art test facility – Environment Simulation Chamber (ESC) has been realised and commissioned at VSSC for stand-alone and integrated testing of Environmental Control & Life Support System (ECLSS) functional modules and Flight suit systems.

6) A Variable length-to-diameter [L/D] Lithium Hydroxide (LiOH) proto-canister has been realised as part of air re-vitalisation system development.

7) An integrated thermal performance test setup was realised for testing of crew cabin thermal and humidity control system and tests are in progress.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 08/05/2014 02:53 pm
Crew module under vibration testing. SRE-1 had a very similar outer skin. What is missing of the crew module is its silica tiles thermal protection system that is also similar to SREs.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/09/2014 08:21 pm
HSF in pre-project stage:

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report-human-space-flight-programme-isro-s-biggest-project-in-pre-project-stage-2009099
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Bob Shaw on 08/09/2014 08:51 pm
Space Suit Engineering Prototype

EPs help in technology development and demonstration. Final design will be based on the EPs test results

I love the red Sokol-ish suit - very 2001!

Hopefully, ISRO will eschew talking computers...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/10/2014 07:44 pm
Quote
India’s scientists are on course to sending the country’s first manned flight to space, Chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) K. Radhakrishnan said here on Sunday.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/indias-scientists-are-on-course-to-sending-the-countrys-first-manned-flight-to-space/article6301589.ece
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 08/25/2014 04:45 pm
Look what I found!
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 08/26/2014 09:47 am
Look what I found!

Great! Just for the translation, I guess the first entry in the info box is Diameter, then Height, Volume and the last one is Mass? What does the set of volume entries in the middle circle mean? Is it the habitable volume available in the cabin for each spacecraft?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 09/24/2014 05:06 pm
Quote
11. What about your plans for a manned mission?
While we are yet to take up a human spaceflight mission, we have progressed in technological areas such as crew module, crew-escape system, environment control and life-support system, space suit, re-entry and recovery techniques. Safety and reliability are important.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/24/2014 05:26 pm
What will an Indian crew do in orbit?   After test flights will they dock with ISS?   And what happens when ISS is retired?

When the Chinese had their first piloted flight in 2003 they already had Tiangong planned as an interim space station.   India has nothing like this planned.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: baldusi on 09/24/2014 05:44 pm
What will an Indian crew do in orbit?   After test flights will they dock with ISS?   And what happens when ISS is retired?

When the Chinese had their first piloted flight in 2003 they already had Tiangong planned as an interim space station.   India has nothing like this planned.
If they are designing to IDSS standard, they will first have to demonstrate navigation and docking/undocking. After that, they could ask to visit either ISS or Tiangong-3. NASA does a lot interactions with ISRO. And if they demonstrate the necessary capabilities, both CNSA and the ISS partnership will probably want to have them on their side. Besides, at least ISS is done by bartering. If ISRO would pay to bring up (and down) their own crew plus somebody NASA, I don't see why they wouldn't accept them.
But realistically speaking, how far are we from them demonstrating the necessary capabilities. Even GSLV MkIII haven't flown and won't fly an orbital mission for a couple of years. We are talking 2020+ here. Who knows what will the international LEO station plans be by that time?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 09/25/2014 03:14 am
What will an Indian crew do in orbit?   After test flights will they dock with ISS?   And what happens when ISS is retired?

When the Chinese had their first piloted flight in 2003 they already had Tiangong planned as an interim space station.   India has nothing like this planned.

Something will go in space. it could be some kind of orbiting lab module with bio/metallurgy science. I read it somewhere, but I may be wrong. 
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 10/15/2014 01:55 am


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/after-mangalyaan-to-mars-isro-plans-to-send-an-indian-into-space/articleshow/44818505.cms
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 10/15/2014 02:17 am
Without Thermal protection system (silica tiles)
(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28405.0;attach=597776;image)

With Thermal Protection system

(http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/photo/44818645/after-mangalyaan-to-mars-.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 10/15/2014 02:25 am


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/after-mangalyaan-to-mars-isro-plans-to-send-an-indian-into-space/articleshow/44818505.cms


Quote
Within a few weeks, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will team up with the Indian Air Force to conduct a simple experiment: it will drop a 3.7-tonne capsule from a height of 3.5 km and try to land it softly with parachutes. If successful, Isro will take this capsule in November-end to a height of 120 km on a rocket and eject it from there, to be recovered from the sea after a soft landing.

Quote
With this flight data we would be confident about our aero-thermal predictions," says S Unnikrishnan Nair, Project Director, Human Space Programme.


Quote
One can get a taste of the eventual flight from within a model capsule that is kept at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) in Thiruvananthapuram. Two crew members lie looking up into the roof of the module, watching all the flight data as they move up.


Quote
The rocket with the passengers would lift off from Sriharikota, move in a nearstraight line towards Australia, where the crew module is pushed into orbit at a height of about 270 km by the cryogenic engine. The module completes seven days in orbit and then descend into the atmosphere to land softly in the sea.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 10/15/2014 03:04 am
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 10/15/2014 06:27 am
Has the crew module reached SHAR yet? As per earlier reports they had a plan to attempt the launch within 2 weeks of PSLV-C26..
(EDIT: Okay, as per this post (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15187.msg1270716#msg1270716) the launch is tentatively for November end)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: lucspace on 10/15/2014 07:20 am
Corrected and cleaned up the image a bit:
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 10/15/2014 08:10 am
Corrected and cleaned up the image a bit:

Thanks!! looks much better.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 10/24/2014 12:35 am
I'll x-post this to the GSLV-MkIII thread too, since this has stuff relevant to LVM3-X1 flight:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/437480/isros-human-space-flight-endeavour.html

Quote
The first test trial, that of the crew module, will be undertaken in November last week or December first week on the GSLV MK-III.”

The crew module will be injected into orbit by the GSLV at a height of 110-120 km in space from where it will fall towards the earth and be recovered from sea. Isro will examine how the crew module and thermal shield around it handle the heat and temperatures during re-entry into the earth’s atmosphere.

The module’s behaviour during re-entry will determine the technologies to be developed for the manned space flight. The Indian Air Force will conduct trials of retrieving the crew module from sea after a soft-landing.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Indo-guy on 11/01/2014 04:33 pm
What will an Indian crew do in orbit?   After test flights will they dock with ISS?   And what happens when ISS is retired?

When the Chinese had their first piloted flight in 2003 they already had Tiangong planned as an interim space station.   India has nothing like this planned.

Something will go in space. it could be some kind of orbiting lab module with bio/metallurgy science. I read it somewhere, but I may be wrong.


Nopes . Not for this Crew module !

That was planned for SRE 2 which was supposed to stay in LEO for few days .

CCMB Hyderbad had planned to send E Coli bioreactor and ISRO-Jaxa joint experiment for Caynobacteria bioreactor was scheduled to be flown aboard SRE2 for biology experiments  . Besides some nanomaterial projects based on metallurgy and biomimetics have also been planned .

Now that crew module is planned to be dropped from height of 120 km  , there is no question of doing any microgravity experiments as the crew module will spent hardly any time in microgravity state .
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/02/2014 02:18 am
What will an Indian crew do in orbit?   After test flights will they dock with ISS?   And what happens when ISS is retired?

When the Chinese had their first piloted flight in 2003 they already had Tiangong planned as an interim space station.   India has nothing like this planned.

Something will go in space. it could be some kind of orbiting lab module with bio/metallurgy science. I read it somewhere, but I may be wrong.


Nopes . Not for this Crew module !

That was planned for SRE 2 which was supposed to stay in LEO for few days .

CCMB Hyderbad had planned to send E Coli bioreactor and ISRO-Jaxa joint experiment for Caynobacteria bioreactor was scheduled to be flown aboard SRE2 for biology experiments  . Besides some nanomaterial projects based on metallurgy and biomimetics have also been planned .

Now that crew module is planned to be dropped from height of 120 km  , there is no question of doing any microgravity experiments as the crew module will spent hardly any time in microgravity state .

Thanx. but that was about future possibilities.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/02/2014 03:34 am
What will an Indian crew do in orbit?   After test flights will they dock with ISS?   And what happens when ISS is retired?

When the Chinese had their first piloted flight in 2003 they already had Tiangong planned as an interim space station.   India has nothing like this planned.

Something will go in space. it could be some kind of orbiting lab module with bio/metallurgy science. I read it somewhere, but I may be wrong.

I remember reading that ISRO has plans to dock 2 satellites together in space. Don't know where that is on the roadmap, though. And of course haven't heard of anything resembling a space station on the roadmap. But maybe that just gives ISRO more options for a Flexible Path.

Here you go - read about the Rendezvous & Docking experiment (RVD):

http://antariksh-space.blogspot.ca/2013/07/isro-rendezvous-docking-experiment.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: neosky on 11/12/2014 09:07 am
India's First Manned Space Mission likely to be in 2021:  http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-s-first-manned-space-mission-in-2021-isro-chairman-to-ndtv-619855?pfrom=home-lateststories

Quote
  A manned Indian mission to space could take place in 2021 - seven years from now - given the progress that the Indian Space Research Organisation has made in its design and development efforts, ISRO Chairman Dr K Radhakrishnan, has told NDTV.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/12/2014 09:32 am
what ? I thought the name Vyomanaut had been finalized?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 11/12/2014 09:49 am
what ? I thought the name Vyomanaut had been finalized?

Yes, even I thought "Vyomanaut" was finalized few years ago. However, I prefer "Vyomagaami" :)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 11/12/2014 11:39 am
Not sure whether we need to stick with a 'naut' suffix when used with Sanskrit prefixes. Kind of looks awkward if you ask me. A few other choices that comes to my mind is 'antariksha yatri', 'gagana yatri' etc.  ;)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: baldusi on 11/12/2014 01:43 pm
Not sure whether we need to stick with a 'naut' suffix when used with Sanskrit prefixes. Kind of looks awkward if you ask me. A few other choices that comes to my mind is 'antariksha yatri', 'gagana yatri' etc.  ;)
It's an international custom for the rest of the languages. You have the Russian "cosmonaut", the American "astronaut", the Chinese "Taikonaut", even the first French to space was called a "spacionaut", but since ESA and JAXA fly in Russian and American crafts, they don't get naming rights. If you were to be the fourth country to have an indigenous manned craft, you'll probably be named "vyomanaut" by the rest of the world. And that's what the rest of the world will call you. You can use whatever internal name you want. I always dreamed of a espacionaut or spatzionaut, but neither Argentina nor Italy seem any close to actually get their own craft and launcher combo (though the Italian have made quite a few contribution to the American's and the ISS, as well as Vega and Ariane program).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/12/2014 02:34 pm
I'd personally prefer to see the Sanskritized word "Antrikshak" to be popularized for use in local Indian languages, and of course "astronaut" when using english.


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: hop on 11/12/2014 09:20 pm
the Chinese "Taikonaut"
Note that "Taikonaut" was invented by the media (edit: or perhaps enthusiasts, but certainly popularized by the western media) trying to continue the astronaut / cosmonaut pattern, not by people in the Chinese program. AFAIK the Chinese use "yuhangyuan" (see http://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/tp-yuh1.htm), which is they same word they use for astronauts of other nations.

The whole pattern of using different words depending on the space travelers nationality is a just a weird cold war relic IMO. We call a pilot a pilot no matter where they are from or who's airplane they fly.  The media will probably feel compelled to come up with a new 'naut term for India though, so carry on...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/15/2014 09:17 am
Inside Crew Module Flight Simulator

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/15/2014 03:52 pm
I'd personally prefer to see the Sanskritized word "Antrikshak"

Actually why even bother naming when they haven't done so with the rockets and satellites.They prefer rudimentary names like SLV,PSLV,GSLV,MOM.

I wound't be surprised if they eventually name the astronauts as Man on Space(MOS).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Stan Black on 11/15/2014 07:18 pm
I'd personally prefer to see the Sanskritized word "Antrikshak"

Actually why even bother naming when they haven't done so with the rockets and satellites.They prefer rudimentary names like SLV,PSLV,GSLV,MOM.

I wound't be surprised if they eventually name the astronauts as Man on Space(MOS).

BIO - bloke in orbit?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Bob Shaw on 11/15/2014 07:28 pm
Keeping the naming simple would be good - there are already far too many names for exactly the same job description. Cosmonaut, Astronaut, Spacionaut, Taikonaut - at least Yuhangyuan, the proper Chinese term, is generic and non-national. Hopefully India sees sense, too...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ixian77 on 11/16/2014 02:57 am
So........Persionaut/Persinaut, when the Iranians go for it?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 11/17/2014 05:23 am
I'd personally prefer to see the Sanskritized word "Antrikshak"

Actually why even bother naming when they haven't done so with the rockets and satellites.They prefer rudimentary names like SLV,PSLV,GSLV,MOM.

I wound't be surprised if they eventually name the astronauts as Man on Space(MOS).


BIO - bloke in orbit?

@abhishek & @Stan, thats a good one..  ;D Nearly had me rolling with laughter. It may not mean much in terms of rocket science, but I agree ISRO has been terribly unimaginative when it comes to naming rockets and satellites. A bit too functional I would say. There are many Indian names that they could have chosen, something like the way DRDO names their missiles.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 11/17/2014 08:38 am
I'd personally prefer to see the Sanskritized word "Antrikshak"

Actually why even bother naming when they haven't done so with the rockets and satellites.They prefer rudimentary names like SLV,PSLV,GSLV,MOM.

I wound't be surprised if they eventually name the astronauts as Man on Space(MOS).


BIO - bloke in orbit?

@abhishek & @Stan, thats a good one..  ;D Nearly had me rolling with laughter. It may not mean much in terms of rocket science, but I agree ISRO has been terribly unimaginative when it comes to naming rockets and satellites. A bit too functional I would say. There are many Indian names that they could have chosen, something like the way DRDO names their missiles.

By the way, ISRO calls its rocket-grade kerosene used in SCE-200 as "Isrosene" :)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 11/17/2014 02:07 pm
Anyone know if the program is authorized and funded yet?

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/17/2014 05:20 pm
Anyone know if the program is authorized and funded yet?

No,Not yet

Only pre project activities have been authorized by the government......For that the government had sanctioned about 23 million $.The total cost of the program is roughly around 2 billion $ which will be sanctioned in the next 5 year plan ie 2018-2023.



Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/17/2014 07:23 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovWPJqGXoV0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQh5iv4nHXM

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 11/25/2014 04:31 am
Cross-posting news item and photo from GSLV-Mk3 test flight thread..

The title for the news report should have been something like "All set to put unmanned crew module into space" though, as this is a suborbital flight. A case of reporter error.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/all-set-to-put-unmanned-crew-module-into-orbit/article6631187.ece (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/all-set-to-put-unmanned-crew-module-into-orbit/article6631187.ece)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/29/2014 05:18 pm
(http://s30.postimg.org/v95hqhwrl/ISRO_Crew_Module_650.jpg)

Indian crew module,CARE.


Quote
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter."The three tonne weighing crew module would use four set of parachutes to safely land on the surface of the sea at 7 metre per second. It will land some 180 km from Indira Point of Andaman and Nicobar Islands. From the lift off to the crew module splashing into the sea, it will take around 20 minutes," said S Unnikrishnan Nair, Project Director of the Crew Module programme.

The capsule, tentatively designed to carry three astronauts, would be recovered by Indian Coast Guard ships. A practice of the recovery was done on October 31 with Coast Guard ship ICGS Samudra Paheredar, he added.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india-to-push-next-space-frontier-with-launch-of-crew-module-in-mid-december-627603

So in brief

CREW MODULE

1) Name  - CARE

2) Dimention - 2.5m tall,3.5m dia

3) Mass - 3.6 tonnes

4) Capacity - 3 crew

Mission profile :-

1) Launch Date - Dec 15-20

2) Expenditure - Crew module - 2.4 million $
                         GSLV 3         - 22.5 million $

3) Orbit - Suborbital(126 km)

4)  Splashdown - 180 kms from Indira point in Andaman island

5) Total duration - 20 mins
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/29/2014 05:34 pm
Smaller companies partner for ISRO's precursor to first manned mission

Quote
Chennai-based Valeth Hightech is among the smaller companies that will be joining hands with behemoth's like Hindustan Aeronautics in ISRO's experiment aimed at being a precursor to India's first manned mission. The company has machined the silica-based tiles that will shield a trapezoidal pod Indian Space Research Organisation will launch into space and bring back to earth in an experiment in December.

Quote
"Many small companies have contributed to this mission, and Valeth's contribution is critical to the mission safety," says S Unnikrishnan Nair, one of the project directors for Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/45320222.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Danderman on 11/29/2014 06:10 pm
(http://s30.postimg.org/v95hqhwrl/ISRO_Crew_Module_650.jpg)




Quote
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter.

Those dimensions seem reversed.

The similar Soyuz capsule is 2.2 meters in diameter.

Also, note that it seems that the capsule will be launched upside down. I have never heard of a crewed spacecraft launched upside down as a part of a test.




Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/30/2014 02:19 am
LVM3-X/CARE mission (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/To-put-man-in-space-Isro-to-test-crew-module-in-December/articleshow/45321894.cms)


Quote
We will be having a morning launch for the experimental test flight on any day between December 15 and 20. The date will be finalized in another week," said SHAR director M Y S Prasad. The unmanned module to be used in Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment (CARE) is to test the ability of the module to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere with thermal resistance, parachute deployment in cluster formation, aero braking system and apex cover separation procedures

Quote
so far the crew module has been tested by airdropping it from IAF choppers and the test flight will provide them a chance to actually map its trajectory, thermo resistance capacity of the exterior. The module will be packed with three separate sets of parachutes to be deployed in pairs, including a 31-metre diameter parachute which will be the biggest made in the country. Experts pointed out that manned missions in the future will involve similar crew modules, but with special chambers for life support.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/30/2014 02:21 am
(http://s30.postimg.org/dxmu0x1gh/Rock.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/30/2014 02:22 am
Source (http://www.deccanchronicle.com/141130/nation-current-affairs/article/gslv-mark-iii-put-india-elite-league-nations)

Quote
The crew module that will be sent as a payload has a base diameter of 3.1 m and a height of 2.7 m and, and has a lift-off mass of 3,735 kg

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 11/30/2014 02:33 am
Thanks for the post @abhishek! I think the photo perspective makes the capsule seem a bit longer than it actually is.
Quote
"We will be having a morning launch for the experimental test flight on any day between December 15 and 20. The date will be finalized in another week," said SHAR director M Y S Prasad.
Good to see they are still sticking with a Dec launch as of now.

Those dimensions seem reversed.

The similar Soyuz capsule is 2.2 meters in diameter.

Also, note that it seems that the capsule will be launched upside down. I have never heard of a crewed spacecraft launched upside down as a part of a test.

To me, some of the images (1 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28405.msg1247308#msg1247308),2 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28405.0;attach=571604)) does make it appear that the capsule diameter is a bit larger than the height. But I could be wrong.

As regards to the orientation of the capsule, wouldn't it make sense to launch it upside down as depicted as this is a suborbital flight and there aren't any on-board engines to correct the orientation? That way, the capsule should re-enter the atmosphere bottom first. An orbital flight with a service module and orientation engines would follow a different profile though.. (EDIT: Just saw the flight profile pic posted above. It clarifies things a lot.)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 11/30/2014 02:44 am
Quote
The crew module that will be sent as a payload has a base diameter of 3.1 m and a height of 2.7 m, which is almost the size of a small bedroom and is much larger than the Russian manned mission’s crew module.

Explaining the intricacies of the project, CARE project director Dr. Unnikrishnan said that while the crew module, which has a lift-off mass of 3,735 kg, is not a full-fledged module, it is very similar in size and will use three sets of parachutes to ensure that it lands safely in the sea.

This runs contrary to some earlier reports that this crew module was smaller than Soyuz and Shenzhou, and I was left wondering if this would be able to carry 3 passengers. Maybe, they compared the size of the whole Soyuz/Shenzhou spacecrafts with their service and orbital modules against ISRO's re-entry capsule.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/30/2014 03:46 am
 8)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/30/2014 03:51 am
(http://s30.postimg.org/v95hqhwrl/ISRO_Crew_Module_650.jpg)




Quote
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter.

Those dimensions seem reversed.

The similar Soyuz capsule is 2.2 meters in diameter.

Also, note that it seems that the capsule will be launched upside down. I have never heard of a crewed spacecraft launched upside down as a part of a test.

Yes, the dimesions are reversed.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/30/2014 08:11 am
 8)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 11/30/2014 05:09 pm
Quote from: NDTV
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter.

Quote from: Deccan Chronicle
The crew module that will be sent as a payload has a base diameter of 3.1 m and a height of 2.7 m

Which one is it..?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 11/30/2014 06:39 pm
Quote from: NDTV
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter.

Quote from: Deccan Chronicle
The crew module that will be sent as a payload has a base diameter of 3.1 m and a height of 2.7 m

Which one is it..?


Quote from: NDTV
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 11/30/2014 10:57 pm
Measurements shown here (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28405.msg915042#msg915042) are closer to deccanchronicle's report. I dont know source of those images posted by antriksh though.

(http://s30.postimg.org/v95hqhwrl/ISRO_Crew_Module_650.jpg)




Quote
The cup cake-shaped crew module is 2.5 metre tall and 3.5 metre in diameter.

Those dimensions seem reversed.

The similar Soyuz capsule is 2.2 meters in diameter.

Also, note that it seems that the capsule will be launched upside down. I have never heard of a crewed spacecraft launched upside down as a part of a test.

Yes, the dimesions are reversed.

Now I am all confused. Well judging from photographs of hull and vibration test and integration I think Deccan is closer.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/30/2014 11:13 pm
Why is this crew capsule going to fly up backwards, with the base pointing up?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars-J on 11/30/2014 11:46 pm

Why is this crew capsule going to fly up backwards, with the base pointing up?

It does seem a bit strange (would you do strength tests of an automobile upside down?) but presumably this way they can test the heat shield without building the support structure that will ultimately transfer loads through it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: nimbostratus on 12/01/2014 01:03 am

Why is this crew capsule going to fly up backwards, with the base pointing up?

It does seem a bit strange (would you do strength tests of an automobile upside down?) but presumably this way they can test the heat shield without building the support structure that will ultimately transfer loads through it.

I think it is arranged to omit the turn around procedure, to reduce complexity of the first test flight of the crew capsule.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 01:11 am

Why is this crew capsule going to fly up backwards, with the base pointing up?

It does seem a bit strange (would you do strength tests of an automobile upside down?) but presumably this way they can test the heat shield without building the support structure that will ultimately transfer loads through it.

I think it is arranged to omit the turn around procedure, to reduce complexity of the first test flight of the crew capsule.

+1.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/01/2014 02:29 am
(http://s16.postimg.org/ekbwnghn9/sriharikota_indian_space_research_organisation_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/01/2014 02:30 am
Just Look at that Heat Sheild  :o ???
(http://s29.postimg.org/83pweagbb/sriharikota_indian_space_research_organisation_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/01/2014 02:33 am
(http://s11.postimg.org/kr7jdwm5f/sriharikota_indian_space_research_organisation_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 03:18 am
Source video

Crew Module
Diameter: 3.1
Height: 2.6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvEjzcmOe3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvEjzcmOe3s)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2014 03:31 am
That heat shield is humongous!! Probably it can carry two crew modules to LEO ;) By the way, what's that black conical structure on which crew module is mounted - is it payload adapter?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: BigDustyman on 12/01/2014 03:31 am
seems like an awfully big faring for it
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 03:36 am
That heat shield is humongous!! Probably it can carry two crew modules to LEO ;) By the way, what's that black conical structure on which crew module is mounted - is it payload adapter?

it is a payload adapter, but looks very small for the heat shield. LVM3 is like 3 PSLVs in one rocket
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 03:39 am
seems like an awfully big faring for it

Thats  standard fairing for LVM3. Manned mission fairing will be different in design and may be in size.  The operational spacecraft will also have a service module.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2014 03:50 am
seems like an awfully big faring for it

Thats  standard fairing for LVM3. Manned mission fairing will be different in design and may be in size.  The operational spacecraft will also have a service module.

Yes, operational manned mission would have a service module, and crew escape system at the top. So, design might be different from this "cargo carrier" heat shield.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars-J on 12/01/2014 04:09 am
Just Look at that Heat Sheild  :o ???
(http://s29.postimg.org/83pweagbb/sriharikota_indian_space_research_organisation_2.jpg)

That image URL is broken for me - same as the other ones you posted.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2014 04:15 am
Attaching external images linked by abhishek (from here (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28405.msg1294904#msg1294904)).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2014 04:42 am
Few snapshots of simulation video from here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI0ECC3WFUg) (Telugu news).

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 12/01/2014 04:50 am
seems like an awfully big faring for it

Thats  standard fairing for LVM3. Manned mission fairing will be different in design and may be in size.  The operational spacecraft will also have a service module.

Yes, operational manned mission would have a service module, and crew escape system at the top. So, design might be different from this "cargo carrier" heat shield.

And eventually a Soyuz/Shenzhou style orbital module as well, when they plan to do docking and stuff..  :)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/01/2014 04:52 am
Look what I found!

Everybody else's capsule has a rounded bottom, while India's crew capsule looks to have a flatter bottom. Why is that? Wouldn't a rounded bottom be safer and more stable for re-entry?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars-J on 12/01/2014 04:58 am
Look what I found!

Everybody else's capsule has a rounded bottom, while India's crew capsule looks to have a flatter bottom. Why is that? Wouldn't a rounded bottom be safer and more stable for re-entry?

How is it not rounded? It looks just as "rounded" as the Orion and Dragon heat shield.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 12/01/2014 05:01 am
Look what I found!

Everybody else's capsule has a rounded bottom, while India's crew capsule looks to have a flatter bottom. Why is that? Wouldn't a rounded bottom be safer and more stable for re-entry?

Maybe an error in that illustration? The actual photos (and some other recent illustrations) do show a kind of rounded bottom , isn't it?  ???
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 05:01 am
Look what I found!

Everybody else's capsule has a rounded bottom, while India's crew capsule looks to have a flatter bottom. Why is that? Wouldn't a rounded bottom be safer and more stable for re-entry?

You can see the curvature, its not flat.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 12/01/2014 05:24 am
From a report couple of days back
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece)

Quote
At 80 km, the atmosphere takes over. From then, the engineers can only check the speed of the falling object, which they do first by firing small rockets on the module in the reverse direction, and later by opening three parachutes one after the other.

I might have missed it. I thought the capsule would be on a free fall with only the parachutes to slow it down in the later phase. Looks like there are small rockets to do the job initially.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/01/2014 05:31 am
Few snapshots of simulation video from here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI0ECC3WFUg) (Telugu news).

Regarding that video from TV9 Telugu News -- they seem to be showing excerpts from an ISRO-made video in between. Does anybody have any direct link to that ISO-made video itself? This would be having the content you posted screen-snapshots of.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 05:36 am
From a report couple of days back
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece)

Quote
At 80 km, the atmosphere takes over. From then, the engineers can only check the speed of the falling object, which they do first by firing small rockets on the module in the reverse direction, and later by opening three parachutes one after the other.

I might have missed it. I thought the capsule would be on a free fall with only the parachutes to slow it down in the later phase. Looks like there are small rockets to do the job initially.

It would be interesting to see how its done (Dragon?). For Soyuz and shenzhou, small solid rockets are fired just before the touchdown. For ISRO, it seems liquid thrusters would be used for braking before the parachute deployment. Check out the propulsion module.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/01/2014 06:22 am
There seems to be ISRO-DECU animation describing GSLV Mk3 X1 and CARE mission, which was shown to press at SDSC SHAR. Captured some screenshots from various news sources.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/01/2014 06:47 am
Watch the video-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQtHLnAFUVU
Title: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars-J on 12/01/2014 06:56 am
From a report couple of days back
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece)

Quote
At 80 km, the atmosphere takes over. From then, the engineers can only check the speed of the falling object, which they do first by firing small rockets on the module in the reverse direction, and later by opening three parachutes one after the other.

I might have missed it. I thought the capsule would be on a free fall with only the parachutes to slow it down in the later phase. Looks like there are small rockets to do the job initially.

It would be interesting to see how its done (Dragon?). For Soyuz and shenzhou, small solid rockets are fired just before the touchdown. For ISRO, it seems liquid thrusters would be used for braking before the parachute deployment. Check out the propulsion module.

Those tanks are likely for the attitude control system, which uses liquid propellant in all capsules. It is unlikely to be an impact braking system like Soyuz.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/01/2014 07:19 am
From a report couple of days back
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-rushes-to-clarify-on-gslv-mk-iii-launch/article6646542.ece)

Quote
At 80 km, the atmosphere takes over. From then, the engineers can only check the speed of the falling object, which they do first by firing small rockets on the module in the reverse direction, and later by opening three parachutes one after the other.

I might have missed it. I thought the capsule would be on a free fall with only the parachutes to slow it down in the later phase. Looks like there are small rockets to do the job initially.

It would be interesting to see how its done (Dragon?). For Soyuz and shenzhou, small solid rockets are fired just before the touchdown. For ISRO, it seems liquid thrusters would be used for braking before the parachute deployment. Check out the propulsion module.

Those tanks are likely for the attitude control system, which uses liquid propellant in all capsules. It is unlikely to be an impact braking system like Soyuz.

yup they are for attitude control and reorientation. but what the news article mentions is true, I am wondering how they are planning to use it for velocity reduction before parachutes are used ( not for impact braking).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: baldusi on 12/01/2014 11:49 am

Why is this crew capsule going to fly up backwards, with the base pointing up?

It does seem a bit strange (would you do strength tests of an automobile upside down?) but presumably this way they can test the heat shield without building the support structure that will ultimately transfer loads through it.
I think it is arranged to omit the turn around procedure, to reduce complexity of the first test flight of the crew capsule.
BTW, I don't see RCS on the capsule, only indications of retro rockets for breaking. The aerodynamic forces should straighten the capsule. So they might have saved that development, too. And this might even simulate a ballistic return. So they qualify for the worst case.
If you look at the structure, it's quite clear that it is a custom structure for launching upside down. The actual capsule will use a pressure vessels, not unlike SpaceX Dragon's.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 12/01/2014 02:58 pm
In earlier renderings of crew module with windows there are structures similar to thruster nozzles. But in this test crew module both seems to be absent.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/01/2014 06:47 pm
As others have noted, that faring (heat shield) is much larger than the capsule it'll be carrying. Makes me think that they should make the real manned capsule significantly larger, when they do get around to making it.

I wonder how much bigger they could make it, if required?

This capsule we're looking at seems to have been designed for launch on GSLV-Mk2. But as Mk3 becomes available, why not make the most of that, and build as big a crew capsule as can be accommodated?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: baldusi on 12/01/2014 07:17 pm
That fairing is the stock fairing designed to carry 4+ tonne comm sats to GTO. The aerodynamics of launching a capsule upside down are clearly not easy. For this test is better to launch this way. But when launching in capsule mode I expect no fairing and thus to launch like any other capsule save for Soyuz and Shenzhen, which is the only case of encapsulated capsules I know of. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Dragon, CST-100, Dream Chaser and even Hermes launched or proposed to launch without a fairing. Since the GSLV MkIII core is 4m wide, I would actually expect a conical adapter.
But the truth is that we don't know if the crewed capsule will be finished before the new SCE replaces the hypergolic core with an RP-1/LOX SC engine. In fact, the crewed capsule might take long enough for the ULV to actually be commissioned.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars-J on 12/01/2014 09:52 pm
That fairing is the stock fairing designed to carry 4+ tonne comm sats to GTO. The aerodynamics of launching a capsule upside down are clearly not easy. For this test is better to launch this way. But when launching in capsule mode I expect no fairing and thus to launch like any other capsule save for Soyuz and Shenzhen, which is the only case of encapsulated capsules I know of. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Dragon, CST-100, Dream Chaser and even Hermes launched or proposed to launch without a fairing. Since the GSLV MkIII core is 4m wide, I would actually expect a conical adapter.
But the truth is that we don't know if the crewed capsule will be finished before the new SCE replaces the hypergolic core with an RP-1/LOX SC engine. In fact, the crewed capsule might take long enough for the ULV to actually be commissioned.

Yeah, that's the standard fairing, ~5m in diameter. Sanman appears to be confusing what a fairing and heat shield is.

But a nitpick... Apollo launched with a boost protective cover, that served double duty as a fairing and LAS exhaust protection. Orion has the same thing.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/01/2014 11:20 pm
I think of heat shield as something that's on the bottom of a space capsule or re-entry vehicle, to shield it from re-entry heating.

But I've noticed a lot of Indians referring to what seems to be the fairing as a "heat shield" (which to me doesn't seem correct), so I was trying to use both terminologies.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/02/2014 12:13 am
I think of heat shield as something that's on the bottom of a space capsule or re-entry vehicle, to shield it from re-entry heating.

But I've noticed a lot of Indians referring to what seems to be the fairing as a "heat shield" (which to me doesn't seem correct), so I was trying to use both terminologies.

ISRO uses the term "heat shield" for "payload fairing".
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/02/2014 02:39 am
I think of heat shield as something that's on the bottom of a space capsule or re-entry vehicle, to shield it from re-entry heating.

But I've noticed a lot of Indians referring to what seems to be the fairing as a "heat shield" (which to me doesn't seem correct), so I was trying to use both terminologies.

A payload fairing  also protects the satellite from atmospheric heating,so you can see a payload fairing as a heat shield.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: jcm on 12/02/2014 02:44 am
I think of heat shield as something that's on the bottom of a space capsule or re-entry vehicle, to shield it from re-entry heating.

But I've noticed a lot of Indians referring to what seems to be the fairing as a "heat shield" (which to me doesn't seem correct), so I was trying to use both terminologies.

A payload fairing  also protects the satellite from atmospheric heating,so you can see a payload fairing as a heat shield.

Back in the day, the NASA Scout launch vehicle's fairing was called its 'heat shield' in program documents.
That usage has fallen out of common practice over the years, but it's not unprecedented.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 12/02/2014 06:21 am
As others have noted, that faring (heat shield) is much larger than the capsule it'll be carrying. Makes me think that they should make the real manned capsule significantly larger, when they do get around to making it.

I wonder how much bigger they could make it, if required?

This capsule we're looking at seems to have been designed for launch on GSLV-Mk2. But as Mk3 becomes available, why not make the most of that, and build as big a crew capsule as can be accommodated?

The stated LEO capability of GSLV-III (~10 tonnes) is higher than that of CZ-2F (~8.4 tonnes) and Soyuz-FG (~7.8 tonnes). Not to forget that when they get the Kerolox core ready to replace L-110, LEO capability would probably increase to ~12-15 tonnes. That would be much higher than what is needed for the current design, considering a service module and even an additional orbital module. Such a rocket should be capable of accommodating a much larger spacecraft with a carrying capacity of upto 6-7 people (DragonRider/F9 V1.1 comes to mind).

But as mentioned, the current design was probably dictated by the earlier requirement of using a GSLV-II, and ISRO would probably want to leverage the design work that had already gone into it rather than start designing a larger capsule from scratch which would be time-consuming. But it makes me wonder though: since there doesn't appear to be any immediate national requirements to be met through conducting manned spaceflight, would ISRO be better off starting the design works on a larger spacecraft now(with future potential for reusability) and targeting first manned missions in the later half of 2020s, or continue with the existing smaller design to learn stuff early on? Assuming, of course, that ISRO would not have the resources to pursue both programs in parallel.

Another thing that came to my mind. If the current capsule was indeed designed for GSLV-II, and keeping in mind GSLV-II's LEO capability that was ~5 tonnes, would the rocket have been capable of carrying it? The capsule itself weighs around 3.5 tonnes without a service module, and we would need to take into account the added weight of the launch escape tower. Would all this add up to < 5 tonnes? Or was the original 2-person capsule that ISRO had in mind for GSLV-II smaller than the current one?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/02/2014 04:58 pm
Look what i found  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uKiYIzo3gc
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 12/02/2014 05:22 pm
^^^

Its an old concept. I remember having seen that design of OV eons ago. Much before the current design emerged.


That launch vehicle seems interesting. It looks like it's powered by a solid first stage and cryogenic 2nd stage.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/02/2014 05:40 pm
^^^

Its an old concept. I remember having seen that design of OV eons ago. Much before the current design emerged.


That launch vehicle seems interesting. It looks like it's powered by a solid first stage and cryogenic 2nd stage.


I know,it's evident from the GSLV 2 rocket.But whats surprised me more was the ISRO logo on the top right end corer of video,was this video made by ISRO ? Because it looks quite professionally made.

Another thing i liked was the docking with the ISS.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 12/02/2014 05:59 pm
^^^

Its an old concept. I remember having seen that design of OV eons ago. Much before the current design emerged.


That launch vehicle seems interesting. It looks like it's powered by a solid first stage and cryogenic 2nd stage.


I know,it's evident from the GSLV 2 rocket.But whats surprised me more was the ISRO logo on the top right end corer of video,was this video made by ISRO ? Because it looks quite professionally made.

Another thing i liked was the docking with the ISS.

It's not a GSLV in the video. It's completely different launcher, one which we have never seen or will never see.

Looks like an official ISRO video as part of concept presentation.

And ISS is/was/will never be out of question for India. The other countries only need commitment from India and they would be happy to have us onboard the project. But, from a lay man's perspective it still too early to tell whether that will be ISRO's interests are not.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/03/2014 12:46 am
^^^



That launch vehicle seems interesting. It looks like it's powered by a solid first stage and cryogenic 2nd stage.

(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31827.0;attach=620198;image)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/03/2014 02:23 am
^^^
thanks a lot.Never knew they had planned a new vehicle whey they conceived the manned mission plan in 2006.

Anyways ,building a LEO travelling Vehicle is not enough.We need a future beyond LEO CM too
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/03/2014 05:23 am
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 12/03/2014 05:49 am
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28405.0;attach=622586;image

In above thruster is visible I think, checks out location wise.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: nimbostratus on 12/03/2014 06:27 am
^^^
thanks a lot.Never knew they had planned a new vehicle whey they conceived the manned mission plan in 2006.

Anyways ,building a LEO travelling Vehicle is not enough.We need a future beyond LEO CM too

Better get the current work done first.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/03/2014 07:26 am
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28405.0;attach=622586;image

In above thruster is visible I think, checks out location wise.

Right! Lets see how much propulsion info comes out in the brochure.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/03/2014 07:47 am

Better get the current work done first.

Indeed! I just wanted to say that Building a beyond LEO Spacecraft should be a futuristic target if we are aiming for moon and mars.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 12/03/2014 08:15 pm
That launch vehicle seems interesting. It looks like it's powered by a solid first stage and cryogenic 2nd stage.

Looks like four stages to me. The first stage is solid, the second using storable propellants, the third using cryogenic propellants and the fourth stage being the capsule using storable propellants.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Lars-J on 12/04/2014 04:53 pm
That launch vehicle seems interesting. It looks like it's powered by a solid first stage and cryogenic 2nd stage.

Looks like four stages to me. The first stage is solid, the second using storable propellants, the third using cryogenic propellants and the fourth stage being the capsule using storable propellants.

That "4th stage" is just the service module propulsion. It is not usually counted as a stage, it is a part of the payload.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/05/2014 01:40 am
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Soheil on 12/18/2014 10:43 am
 8)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Rocket Science on 12/18/2014 02:57 pm
Another great article William with lots of details! Thanks!! :)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Prober on 12/20/2014 10:11 am
ISRO isn't budget limited.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692 (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-human-spaceflight-programme-is-at-beginning-stage-isro-468692)

Quote

The programs, and the scientific sector in the country is know-how limited, and promulgating scientific literacy as well as STEM fascination is where, IMO, the thrust ought to be directed. We've always known that rockets are awesome for that :)

whatever the way its being done, its showing results and India is on the map in 2014.  ;)

 India has some new doors that are being opened.   There's a north American company that likes what your doing with you spacecraft program.  They own some proprietary technology that might find its way into a joint venture along these lines.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27265.0

who knows if its talk or something will come of it, but I find it very interesting.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Blackstar on 12/22/2014 09:18 pm
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2667/1

    

India’s heavy-lift rocket and crew module milestones: which is more important?
by Ajey Lele
Monday, December 22, 2014

The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) successfully launched its LVM3 (Launch Vehicle Mark III) on a suborbital test mission on December 18. The success of this mission marks a new beginning in India’s satellite launch vehicle program. Also, on the same mission India successfully tested the launch and recovery of a “crew module” by launching CARE (Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment) as a payload in this mission.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: okan170 on 02/01/2015 04:38 am
Look what i found  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uKiYIzo3gc

This video inspired me to come up with a conjectural spacecraft based on the flown vehicle and whatever concepts I can find online.  Bringing it to the ISS seems only natural, so I fitted it with a docking mechanism and did some renders.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 02/01/2015 08:44 am
Incredible renderings! We are so used to see highly compressed official jpegs and half baked animations that people glean from here and there :P  That thing would really stand out with its skin color. This also makes me wonder what could be the purpose of those fin like structures on service module in official graphics.

Again thanks for creating these  ;D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 02/01/2015 09:04 am
Nice pictures but will India start to fly crews into orbit before ISS is retired?   India would then have to rely upon access to China's modular Tiangong orbital station: if the Chinese are interested, of course.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 02/01/2015 05:04 pm
Nice pictures but will India start to fly crews into orbit before ISS is retired?   India would then have to rely upon access to China's modular Tiangong orbital station: if the Chinese are interested, of course.

The Indian goal as of now is to put an Indian in space. It would be too early for ISRO to publically start speaking about space stations and such.

We did not hear about Chinese space station in late 80s or 90s even though China was working on HSF. It is only after they were confident and their program saw a few successes that the plans for their space station became public.

Why should India be any different? Their first challenge is to get a man in space and get him back successfully. Once they are very close to achieving this successfully, they can start serious work on where the program goes from there.

So, the assertion that program doesn't have any concrete future plans is unwarranted.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 02/01/2015 06:51 pm
This is OT for the Indian programme, but to correct Johnxx9 the first photos of the Tiangong 1 mock-up predate the Shenzhou 5 flight.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 02/03/2015 05:53 am
This video inspired me to come up with a conjectural spacecraft based on the flown vehicle and whatever concepts I can find online.  Bringing it to the ISS seems only natural, so I fitted it with a docking mechanism and did some renders.

There is one question that came to my mind with the docking mechanism depicted in the renders. Keeping in mind the size of the planned crew module, would it be possible to incorporate a docking hatch into it without affecting its crew capacity of 3 persons? Or would it make better sense to add an orbital module Soyuz/Shenzhou style and incorporate the docking hatch in that?

And btw, nice renders..  8)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: The Amazing Catstronaut on 02/03/2015 06:20 pm
Indian gemini(+1) will be a beautiful thing to behold, truly.

It's really heartwarming to see a nation (apart from the USA, which is the obvious one) with such a long connection to my own country as India making enormous strides into the unknown. This is an awesome thing for one of the world's most dynamic, fastest growing nations and truly compounds India's state as a 21st century democratic power.

Makes me proud to be alive - it's great seeing another nation get out there using predominantly homegrown tech, instead of stealing a ride with one of the bigger players.

Go ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 05/16/2015 04:51 am
Static Test of Canted Scarfed Multiple Nozzle Motor for crew module escape system

from this

(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=28405.0;attach=689216;image)


to this
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 06/17/2015 03:24 am
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/isro-working-to-have-critical-technologies-for-human-space-mission/articleshow/47695980.cms

Quote
"We are working for critical technologies for human space programmes. Currently we are working on environmentally controlled chamber so that the chamber is habitable for human being for long period," ISRO Chairman A S Kirankumar said on a question if the space organisation is working for building capsule for human space programme.

"We have make sure that various oxygen level and carbon dioxide level is conducive for human being for weeks together in the capsule. The methods of controlling the environment ensuring that whether inside the capsule is comfortable for astronauts, those experiments are going on," he said.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/17/2015 05:06 am
Weeks, eh? How long would a typical human spaceflight mission be expected to last? The crew capsule doesn't seem large enough to do a mission that lasts weeks. Oh well, must be the usual requirement for over-design, I guess.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 09/17/2015 06:14 am
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Tiruchirapalli/safety-of-crew-is-the-priority-for-isro-in-manned-space-missions/article7661053.ece

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is focusing on developing a manned space vehicle to carry a crew of two or three members to the low earth orbit and return safely to the earth, said Unnikrishnan Nair, Project Director, Human Space Flight Project, ISRO.

Delivering a lecture after launching an online portal “Direct” of the Electronics and Communications Engineering at the National Institute of Technology-Tiruchi here on Wednesday, he said the ISRO had been working very hard for the launch of manned space vehicles. Various units were working for the successful launch. All aspects, including safe launch, effective ground monitoring, cabin crew safety, living space capsule model, and contingency plans were closely studied. While stating that successful launch was the prime objective of manned space mission programme, ISRO was working out modalities for the safety of the crew members if anything went wrong during the launch. The launch vehicles should be intelligent enough to safeguard the crew members.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 09/17/2015 12:11 pm
In another article(ToI) about this event (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/trichy/Opportunities-galore-in-space-research-Isro/articleshow/49000212.cms)

Quote
Narrating the attempts made by Isro to develop a cost-effective spaceflight for its manned space mission, he said the early manned space capsule used by Russia can only be used one time.

He said a reusable space vehicle is in the making for the manned space mission of Isro.

He drew the comparison with Soyuz capsule and highlighted its non re-usability. He can't be talking about RLV-TD or other unmanned concepts. Could he mean that  Indian crew capsule is intended to be reused ! :D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 11/03/2015 05:52 pm
Quote
    "The space-suits have been done in Vadodara by a private firm. It is already been tested and verified. The first thing is to make sure that you are able to control the environment for the person wearing the suit in terms of humidity, temperature and oxygen"

    "Primarily, all the activities including that of design of the chamber are being done in Trivandrum, with some work being done in other places. For example, in Ahmedabad, some of the sensors and lighting systems for the chamber is being done"


http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/gujarats-firms-helping-isro-shape-up-manned-space-mission/
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 11/04/2015 12:42 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvdU-O5FZik&t=830

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: spacenut on 11/04/2015 03:08 pm
Isn't the reason for white spacesuits to reflect heat from the sun during spacewalks?  Russia, China, as well as the US use white suits.  I noticed this one was red or orange. 
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 11/04/2015 04:34 pm
Isn't the reason for white spacesuits to reflect heat from the sun during spacewalks?  Russia, China, as well as the US use white suits.  I noticed this one was red or orange.

It appears to be similar to Sokol flight suit one difference I see is that it has electric cables running out from its right . I am not sure if this is the final design that is being made by that firm in Vadodara though.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/05/2015 08:16 am
Yeah, even when it comes to pics of the Indian space capsuled, I wondered why the capsule wasn't white to reflect the Sun's rays more. It seems like the orange/brown color would cause it to absorb more solar heating.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/07/2015 05:59 pm
Manned spaceflight not an immediate priority, says ISRO chief

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Manned-mission-not-a-priority-Isro-chief/articleshow/49701431.cms
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 11/08/2015 09:16 am
It would be shameful of ISRO not to have taken up the initiative of manned space program now after having started the space program in the mid 60s. Had PSLV- the ISRO workhorse launch vehicle - been man rated, it could have easily taken a single Indian Astronaut to space as it has low earth orbit payload capacity of over 3 ton ( 3250 Kg / 7200 lb ). But weirdly ISRO never made any intention of using PSLV as a single astronaut manned space flight program. After the Space Capsule Recovery Program 1 that was done in 2007, ISRO did not follow up with Space Capsule Recovery Program 2 that would have been precursor to initiating Manned Space Program. Early in the Space Race between the USA and the USSR, neither of the countries waited for a spacecraft to be developed with heavy launch mass.

Lets take a look at mission features of the Project Mercury 2nd Flight that took John H. Glenn, Jr to space, thus making him the first US astronaut to make an orbital flight.

Mission duration    4 hours, 55 minutes, 23 seconds
Distance travelled    121,794 kilometers (65,763 nautical miles)
Orbits completed    3

Spacecraft Features
Spacecraft    Mercury No.13
Manufacturer    McDonnell Aircraft
Launch mass    1,224.7 kilograms (2,700 lb)
Crew         1 [ John H. Glenn, Jr ]

Launch date    February 20, 1962, 14:47:39 (1962-02-20UTC14:47:39Z) UTC
Rocket    Atlas LV-3B 109-D
Landing date    February 20, 1962, 19:43:02 (1962-02-20UTC19:43:03Z) UTC

Orbital parameters
Regime    Low Earth orbit
Perigee 149 kilometers
Apogee    248 kilometers
Period    88.47 minutes

If we take a look at the US manned space program that began with the Project Mercury, US used Atlas LV-3B, Atlas D Mercury Launch Vehicle or Mercury-Atlas Launch Vehicle to send an astronaut. This man rated expendable launch vehicle - derived from the SM-65D Atlas missile - was used in the US Project Mercury Manned Space Program to launch Astronauts into low Earth orbit. It has a launch mass of 120,000 kilograms (260,000 lb) against 3,250 kilograms (7,200 lb) of PSLV and has LEO payload capacity of 1,360 kilograms (3,000 lb) against 3,250 kilograms (7,200 lb) of PSLV. All ISRO required was to man rate it, develop all the support system and push the Indian Government to give the go ahead. Despite starting a Space Program nearly 50 years ago and launching over fifty foreign satellites though not very large, ISRO would find itself in an awkward and disgraceful situation if lesser known countries such as Iran preempts India to send astronaut to space even on a sub orbital mission with its rocket derived from missiles procured clandestinely from North Korea and being passed off as their own stuff and being used as intimidation to wipe out its enemy.

But who will listen to this plea of mine ? ISRO is to blame itself for this situation. Right after the journey of Rakesh Sharma, the first and only Indian to go to Space with Indo Soviet space mission, former USSR during its bonhomie relation with India was offering ISRO space flight offers one after another. But ISRO not only turned down all of them but also prevented Indian Air Force from grabbing those offers. Then after the sudden demise of Rajiv Gandhi, India got a number of spineless, debilitating governments that did not have any urgency or motivation to send Indian astronauts to space after PSLV became a workhorse launch vehicle. This new government is following in the same footsteps. But instead of sanctioning manned space program and other scientific project such as LIGO India, this government - to justify its so called nut bolt screw driver Make in India Initiative - is basking in the glory of successful mission sanctioned by preceding governments such as Mars Orbiter Mission, Astrosat, back-to-back GSLV MK 2 successful mission, GSLV MK 3 sub orbital mission with crew module etc.

Can someone in this forum remind the Indian PM trough twitter if he has forgotten to sanction the manned space program as his science minister Dr. Harsh Bardhan keeps on saying that India would launch its first astronaut in space by 2021 ?

Quote

There is also evidence of some crosstalk in the Modi government. Science minister Harsh Vardhan continues to egg on the scientific community, repeatedly asserting that “India will launch its first astronaut in space by 2021. But the Modi government is yet to approve the human space flight program that would cost upwards of Rs. 12,500 crore.


Scientific community has mixed feelings on Narendra Modi's first year as Prime Minister - The Hindu: (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/scientific-community-has-mixed-feelings-on-modis-first-year-as-pm/article7244342.ece)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/18/2015 02:04 pm
There are a lot of critics of the Human Spaceflight Program from India's traditional scientific establishment - they feel that this is a vanity project which will waste a lot of money while providing little scientific or material return to the Indian people.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Star One on 11/18/2015 03:47 pm

There are a lot of critics of the Human Spaceflight Program from India's traditional scientific establishment - they feel that this is a vanity project which will waste a lot of money while providing little scientific or material return to the Indian people.

They are perfectly entitled to their opinion but they should realise by now that Spaceflight isn't just about science but also public outreach & politics.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: RonM on 11/18/2015 03:57 pm

There are a lot of critics of the Human Spaceflight Program from India's traditional scientific establishment - they feel that this is a vanity project which will waste a lot of money while providing little scientific or material return to the Indian people.

They are perfectly entitled to their opinion but they should realise by now that Spaceflight isn't just about science but also public outreach & politics.

Agreed.

Soft power is important in international politics. India joining the exclusive human spaceflight club would be a boost to India's international prestige.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/04/2015 12:33 am
INDIA’S MANNED SPACE MISSION, NOT IN NEAR FUTURE … OR NEVER?

Quote
Even if Centre okayed it now, it would take many years for mission to materialise; Institute of Aerospace Medicine remains clueless about training facility for astronauts

Awaiting the Union government's nod but already facing other delay-inducing obstacles, the much-touted manned space mission of India will not take place in the near future - not in 2017 as was expected; not even by 2021 as reported recently. In fact, with the prolonged delays, there is a fair chance that the mission may not take off at all.
Quote
with the prolonged delays, the space scientists are also bracing for the mission not to take off at all, but are not saying so openly at present. They feel ultimately it may be preferred to send Indian astronauts on board US or Russian launchers for deep-space missions rather than send them on indigenous ones.
http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/others/Indias-manned-space-mission-not-in-near-future-or-never/articleshow/50034034.cms
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/04/2015 12:42 am
There are a lot of critics of the Human Spaceflight Program from India's traditional scientific establishment - they feel that this is a vanity project which will waste a lot of money while providing little scientific or material return to the Indian people.


We are a country with a very challenging socio economic conditions and limited finances, henceforth we should invest in projects on a priority basis.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 12/07/2015 06:24 am
 We have lead! ;D

Quote
Sure Safety (India) Private Limited, Vadodara-based industrial safety equipment and solutions provider and one of the leading exhibitors at OSH India 2015, embarked on an opportunity with the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for its space capsule recovery experiment to build the first Indian spacesuit, technically called the Advanced Crew Escape Suit for ISRO. The company designed the space suit from scratch and the development lasted a year.

Source:

http://www.prnewswire.co.in/news-releases/ubm-india-successfully-concludes-osh-india-2015-mumbai-560755031.html

Edit: Also note they mention SRE. Could this flight suit be one of the experiments for SRE 2?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/07/2015 01:17 pm
We have lead! ;D

Quote
Sure Safety (India) Private Limited, Vadodara-based industrial safety equipment and solutions provider and one of the leading exhibitors at OSH India 2015, embarked on an opportunity with the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) for its space capsule recovery experiment to build the first Indian spacesuit, technically called the Advanced Crew Escape Suit for ISRO. The company designed the space suit from scratch and the development lasted a year.

Source:

http://www.prnewswire.co.in/news-releases/ubm-india-successfully-concludes-osh-india-2015-mumbai-560755031.html

Edit: Also note they mention SRE. Could this flight suit be one of the experiments for SRE 2?

Space capsule recovery experiment => SRE......hhmmm so we gonna have some space suit experiment in SRE-2?? is there enough space for such experiment??

May the Force be with ISRO ;D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: antriksh on 12/07/2015 01:20 pm
INDIA’S MANNED SPACE MISSION, NOT IN NEAR FUTURE … OR NEVER?

Quote
Even if Centre okayed it now, it would take many years for mission to materialise; Institute of Aerospace Medicine remains clueless about training facility for astronauts


I dont know about human space flight, but India will surelly have MOON as its space station :P
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/18/2015 07:40 pm
Quote

When asked about manned space programmes, he said it was for the government to take a decision. "Manned programme will be done only after the government gives permission. We have not got any clearance so far."

"However, ISRO is working on various projects and critical technologies like crew module, creating an environment inside the crew module for people inside to survive and also space suit.

"Some activities are going on but finally, the government has to make up its mind and then tell whether we should take up manned mission or not," Kumar said.


Source :

Nearly 30 satellite launch orders at hand for ISRO's Antrix (http://www.ibnlive.com/news/tech/nearly-30-satellite-launch-orders-at-hand-for-isros-antrix-1178438.html)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 02/11/2016 04:24 pm
Something called project "Abbot Machine" was mentioned by Dr K Sivan in relation to Human Spaceflight Program  :o

Quote
On manned space flight, Sivan said they are coming up with a project called "Abbot Machine".

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/hyderabad/ISRO-Trying-to-Put-Electric-Propelling-System-for-Satellites/2016/02/11/article3272198.ece

Edit: "Abort Mission" probably  :P
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 02/11/2016 11:45 pm
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/science/science/120216/india-can-launch-4-tonne-satellite.html

Now this is suggesting an abort mission before December. Assuming a pad abort test they could reuse CARE module for it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 02/12/2016 06:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LNpD7CXwMY


Suit features mentioned in above news clip:
- Made as per international standards (comparable with USA and Russian suits)
- Made under ISRO's guidance
- Seven layered, fire-retardant, water-repellent, puncture-proof
- Pressure controlled
- Chilling water cooled
- Umbilical connectors for suit-sensors, biometric sensors, air and oxygen supplies
- Has approx 200 parts including mechanical, electrical and plastic parts
- Weighs 13kg
- Developed in 4 years

Suit will be exhibited at "Make in India" event in Mumbai in coming days.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Ohsin on 02/12/2016 10:55 pm
Unlike Sokol KV2 it has Liquid Cooling Lines and connectors have a different look as well. Would love to see it from rear as well.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chota on 04/27/2016 10:02 am
Pad abort test planned after Rlv-td

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/reusable-space-launcher-model-to-be-tested-soon/article8514676.ece&ved=0ahUKEwj3g-_Lxq7MAhUEJJoKHS6RBB4QqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNFyeA0mQSL8MtVTBQnevTUKJ1GUng&sig2=TnO5gfYC1nh-46MOskwohg
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: johnxx9 on 04/28/2016 11:13 pm
Pad abort test planned after Rlv-td

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/reusable-space-launcher-model-to-be-tested-soon/article8514676.ece&ved=0ahUKEwj3g-_Lxq7MAhUEJJoKHS6RBB4QqQIIGigBMAA&usg=AFQjCNFyeA0mQSL8MtVTBQnevTUKJ1GUng&sig2=TnO5gfYC1nh-46MOskwohg

Interesting news indeed !! The crew module seems to be coming along pretty well. I suppose all parts of the puzzle will be close to resolution by the end of this year.
LAS, Launch Vehicle (assuming ISRO does with LVM3) and the crew module (although lots is still to be done) itself.
 
Actually it would be interesting to compare the progress with the US commercial crew vehicles. But, keep in mind that this program is yet to get full funding of 2 billion USD.

But, expect to have some kind of date by early next year. This date could be close to 2020.



Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 05/27/2016 04:35 am
From ISRO annual report 2015-16:

Quote
Crew Escape System (CES): The first major milestone in CES qualification is the Pad Abort Test (PAT) flight, to demonstrate the functioning of CES during any emergency condition occurring at launch pad. Design of structural elements, namely, Nose Cone, Pitch Motor Compartment, Inter-stage, Crew Module Fairing and Igniters for motors, have been completed. Fabrication activities are in progress for realisation of sub-systems.

Crew Module (CM) Systems: Crew Module for PAT flight has the same configuration as flown in CARE mission. Realisation of CM with metallic inner structure, CFRP panels and honeycomb avionics deck is in progress at work centres. Additional qualification tests have been planned on Parachute system to enhance its robustness. A high rate Inertial Navigation System is included in PAT flight for measuring CM attitude after separation from CES.

Environmental Control and Life Support Systems (ECLSS): Significant progress has been made in the functional modules of ECLSS like Carbon dioxide and Odour Removal System [CORS], Temperature and Humidity Control System [THCS] and Cabin Pressure Control System [CPCS]. As part of CORS development, comprehensive tests using Lithium Hydroxide (LiOH) pellets were carried out to evaluate pressure drop across canisters. Testing of THCS as an integrated unit comprising of the various types of heat exchangers is in progress. A thermo-vacuum chamber for testing space radiator and Gas bottle to store high pressure Oxygen were realised and successfully qualified.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 08/09/2016 11:13 pm
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/efeatures.aspx?relid=148271

Quote
ISRO has taken up the development of critical technologies as part of pre-project activities for the Manned Space Programme. Major activities identified under Pre-Project are Crew Module (CM) systems, Environmental Control & Life Support System (ECLSS), Flight Suit and Crew Escape System (CES). The Crew module was flight tested in the experimental mission of GSLV MkIII on December 18, 2014 and the re-entry characteristics and the recovery of the Crew Module were successfully demonstrated. The flight suit development has been completed. Development of the ECLSS and the Crew Escape Systems are progressing well and is targeted to be completed in 2016-17.

As of now, Manned Space Programme is not an approved programme. Currently, ISRO is developing critical technologies relevant for human spaceflight for building future capacity. No cooperation or assistance has been sought from any other country during the last two years in this regard.

This information was provided by the Union Minister of State (Independent Charge) Development of North-Eastern Region (DoNER), MoS PMO, Personnel, Public Grievances & Pensions, Atomic Energy and Space, Dr Jitendra Singh in written reply to a question in Lok Sabha today.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 09/28/2016 06:59 am
http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/chennai/Coming-up-Pad-Abort-Test-before-manned-mission/2016/09/27/article3630658.ece

Quote
Inching closer to a manned mission, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) will soon be conducting a ‘Pad Abort Test’, which is a launch escape system to find out how well the system would get the crew of a spacecraft to safety in an emergency on the launch pad. The test is likely by this year end.

Quote
As part of this process, the pad abort test will be done. “The technology is in its final stages of development. Depending on our work schedule, we will plan the technology demonstrator. What we are planning to do is place a crew module in one of stages of a rocket and retrofire it to bring it back safely. The landing will be either on land or sea,” Kiran Kumar said.

Quote
The ISRO chairman said another critical technology “environmental controlled chamber” was in the development stage. This was primarily to control the toxic gases for astronauts to survive.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 09/28/2016 07:39 am
Ah! So that was the reference to 'human spaceflight' that the Chairman made in his speech after C-35 launch. Couldn't catch it properly..
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: maint1234 on 09/28/2016 11:53 am
I was sceptical whether a escape capsule would work practically but it seems a soyuz crew had a successful escape in 1983 using a escape capsule system . Its a very interesting read.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 10/06/2016 10:40 pm
Another mention of the Pad Abort test:

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-gears-up-for-critical-crew-rescue-test/article9194536.ece

Quote
The test, known as Pad Abort, will be held at the launch pad of SHAR in a month or two


So is this supposed to test the tractor LAS that will be mounted on the crew module? I wonder what the entire setup will look like - will they have a mockup of a particular launch vehicle, or would this test validate for all of them?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Sumanta on 10/11/2016 03:26 am
I was sceptical whether a escape capsule would work practically but it seems a soyuz crew had a successful escape in 1983 using a escape capsule system . Its a very interesting read.


Emergency rescue of astronauts during Soyuz T10-1 Mission on 26.09.1983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWWDjNTDy_I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWWDjNTDy_I)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/03/2016 09:06 pm
http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/chennai/2016/dec/03/def-lab-works-on-food-for-spaceflight-crew-1545121.html

Quote
CHENNAI: The Mysuru-based Defence Food Research Laboratory (DFRL) is planning to prepare food for India’s Human Spaceflight Programme that will carry a two-member crew to a low earth orbit, according to Rakesh Kumar Sharma, director, DFRL.

Indian Air Force’s Institute of Aerospace Medicine (IAM) is researching the physiological and psychological needs for Indian Space Research Organisation’s (ISRO) human spaceflight crew.

Quote
Speaking on the sidelines of the Confederation of Indian Industry’s (CII) fifth edition of Foodcon 2016, Sharma said trials were being conducted on G Suit (a flight suit worn by aviators and astronauts who experience high levels of acceleration force, g).


It is designed to prevent black-out and g-LOC (g-induced loss of consciousness) caused by blood pooling in the lower part of the body when under acceleration against gravity, thus depriving the brain of blood.
“We are developing the food keeping in mind the requirements of aviators using the G-suit so that flow of blood to the brain is not blocked,” he said.

Quote
Talking of the space food, he said it would be more like  toothpaste. “It will hold all solids converted into a paste,” said Sharma. Asked how long would it take to develop the food, he said it was at an inception stage.
ISRO has an MoU with IAM to conduct basic research on the physiological and psychological requirements for human space mission as a pre-project R&D. ISRO also has agreements with a Bangalore-based third party to develop spacesuits.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 12/18/2016 02:58 am
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/science/science/181216/space-age-isros-very-human-test.html

Quote
... “We are getting ready for the pad abort test. It will happen soon,” says A.S. Kiran Kumar, Chairman, Isro. Simply put, the test flight will show how fast the crew could punch out from the rocket in the event of an emergency...

Quote
Simultaneously, Indian Space scientists are getting their act together for this ambitious mission, designing space suits, an environmental control and life support system on board the spacecraft, and a host of other critical systems needed for a safe journey of Vyomanauts.

Quote
All these systems and their tests will be completed before GSLV-III, the most powerful rocket designed by India, is “human-rated” or declared safe for a journey into Space by Indians. Current projections indicate the first journey of Indians onboard an indigenous rocket and from India soil could be in 2020-21.

Quote
Incidentally, all these critical systems and their tests are being accomplished with an infinitesimal part of the Rs 12,500 crore allocation sought by ISRO for the human spaceflight (HSF) programme. Reason: the government has maintained that it is not an “approved programme” and therefore, a small amount of about Rs 100 crore has been sanctioned for pre-project studies.

Quote
In short, these scientists intend to develop a fully-autonomous three-ton orbital vehicle (a spaceship) to transport a two-member crew to orbit and return to Earth after a few orbits to two days. The extendable version of the spaceship will allow flights up to seven days, rendezvous and docking capability with space stations.

Quote
Isro would receive assistance in crew selection and training from Russia under an agreement signed in March 2008. One option was a flight of an Indian onboard a Soyuz capsule in the run-up to an Indian mission, but that was dropped. The process of crew selection, too, awaits a nod from the government with the space agency likely to bank of the Indian Air Force and the Institute of Aerospace Medicine, Bengaluru, to pick potential candidates.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/21/2017 03:09 am
ISRO Chair Dr S Kiran Kumar says that ISRO has the capability & confidence to tackle development of a space station if the nation were to commit to such an undertaking.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/india-can-develop-space-station-says-isro-chief-as-kiran-kumar/articleshow/57258211.cms

Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman A S Kiran Kumar today said the country has the capability to develop a space station, but it needed a long-term approach and an ambitious planning.

His comment follows ISRO display of technological prowess last week by launching 104 satellites in a single mission.

"We have all the capabilities to set up a space station. The day the country takes the decision, we will 'ok' the project. Just draw a policy and provide us necessary funds and time," Kumar said here.


Personally, I'm not sure ISRO should go that route, because it's so expensive. I don't see what significant benefits a dedicated space station could offer that a large manned vehicle couldn't.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/21/2017 04:35 am
ISRO has to initiate the Manned Space Program, because if is not yet initiated, the whole process will take longer. I always felt that had PSLV - XL - the most reliable Launch Vehicle of India - been manrated and necessary support materials been developed,  ISRO could've sent a single astronaut by now with PSLV. But the Indian government of past dithered, even the current government run by so-called Space Buff who basks in Indian Space glory initiated by the preceding governments seem reluctant to go ahead with the allocation of fund for the Indian Manned Space Program.

Immediately after Rakesh Sharma became the first and till now the only Indian Astronaut to go to space on a joint Indo-Soviet Space Mission in 1984, the former USSR, with which India had a relationship on the path of utmost bonhomie, offered India many such joint mission. But unfortunately ISRO under the tenure of former ISRO Chairman Prof. U. R. Rao showed no interest in such offer.

Manned Space mission cannot get off the ground in 4-5 years after the fund allocation is sanctioned. Lot of supporting technology need to be developed. But the government has to give the go-ahead.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 02/21/2017 07:33 am
ISRO has to initiate the Manned Space Program, because if is not yet initiated, the whole process will take longer. I always felt that had PSLV - XL - the most reliable Launch Vehicle of India - been manrated and necessary support materials been developed,  ISRO could've sent a single astronaut by now with PSLV. But the Indian government of past dithered, even the current government run by so-called Space Buff who basks in Indian Space glory initiated by the preceding governments seem reluctant to go ahead with the allocation of fund for the Indian Manned Space Program.

Immediately after Rakesh Sharma became the first and till now the only Indian Astronaut to go to space on a joint Indo-Soviet Space Mission in 1984, the former USSR, with which India had a relationship on the path of utmost bonhomie, offered India many such joint mission. But unfortunately ISRO under the tenure of former ISRO Chairman Prof. U. R. Rao showed no interest in such offer.

Manned Space mission cannot get off the ground in 4-5 years after the fund allocation is sanctioned. Lot of supporting technology need to be developed. But the government has to give the go-ahead.

--- [ --- ]
The reason the GoI has been dithering on a formal commitment for the manned space program is primarily its cost - the latest figure runs into Rs 20,000 crores, or $2 Billion if I did my math right. This would be as large as the entire yearly budget of ISRO! Then there would be legitimate questions whether such a program provides benefits proportional to such an investment in the near term, other than being a costly flag waving opportunity. On another level, the Finance ministry would be under pressure to keep a ceiling on govt spendings to keep fiscal deficit under limits and gain a favorable rating for the economy from international agencies.

That said, I do feel the manned space program needs to be pursued as a long-term investment. A lot would depend on the PM's interest on the matter, and if the GSLV MkIII test flight in April turns out to be a grand success, I'm hopeful of a favorable announcement from the Govt.

As for doing a quick bare bone, one man, Mercury-style flight in PSLV to mark our entry, what's the point if ISRO have to ditch it quick after that and then design a larger, more practical 3-person spacecraft riding on a larger rocket? It could be wastage of resources.

Just my 2 cents..
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/21/2017 09:14 am
Here's another article featuring same comments from ISRO chief:

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-can-develop-a-space-station-says-isro-chief-1661593

I think the Space Tourism market could offer an answer, in regards to offsetting developmental and operational costs for manned spaceflight.

But as was just said, a single-man capsule can't do much, other than be symbolic. For Space Tourism, you need larger multi-man ships, to make things economical. And you'd probably also benefit from reusability, to make things more affordable still.

Once someone like Blue Origin starts to do Space Tourist flights in earnest, maybe it could open the eyes of India's space community, and inspire them to think of ways to pursue opportunities in the same market.

Antrix has been good at commercializing ISRO's capabilities thus far, so whatever manned spaceflight capability ISRO develops, I bet Antrix will find a way to market it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 02/22/2017 05:29 am
On the Crew Escape System from Annual Report 2016-17 (http://www.isro.gov.in/annual-report-2016-2017-english)
Quote
The performance demonstration test of Crew Escape System (CES) has been planned through Pad Abort Test (PAT) flight. PAT flight demonstrates the capability of CES to execute a ground based abort in case of an exigency at launch pad. In PAT flight, the test article (consisting of CM and CES) with a height of 14 m and lift-off mass of 12.5 t, is propelled at an acceleration of 10 g with the help of quick acting solid motors. Upon reaching a safe altitude and range, the crew module separates and safely lands in sea with the help of parachute based deceleration system. To enable quick acting, special purpose solid motors with high-burn rate propellant (being developed for the first time) and special features like reverse flow multiple nozzles and canted nozzles with scarffing have been designed and realised. Proof pressure test and propellant casting for motors have been completed. Facilities for vertical testing of solid motors and launch pedestal for PAT flight are being realised at SDSC. Wind tunnel tests for CES configurations have been completed. Crew Module (CM) structure required for CES test has been realised and successfully structural tested. The Pad Abort Test is expected to be completed by March 2017.

For demonstrating the Environment Control and Life Support System (ECLSS), integrated tests of Temperature & Humidity Control System (THCS) involving Air-Liquid Heat exchangers, Liquid-Liquid heat exchangers, pumps, space radiator, sensors and other accessories were successfully carried out. Preliminary ground based circuit for Cabin Pressure Control System (CPCS) was developed and realisation is in progress. A ground based Personal Hygiene Management System (PHMS) was configured and an engineering model has been realised.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 03/02/2017 10:39 am
ISRO should collaborate with other countries for human spaceflight (http://punemirror.indiatimes.com/others/scitech/k-kasturirangan-isro-should-collaborate-with-other-countries-for-human-spaceflight/articleshow/57428732.cms)

Quote
Hyderabad: Veteran space scientist K Kasturirangan has favoured India to pursue a collaborative model in its proposed human spaceflight venture to undertake the mission early in a cost-effective manner by leveraging proven capabilities in the field internationally.

"So, they (ISRO) need to really work out multiple strategies by which the goal can be achieved, and in those strategies how much of it should be ourselves, how much we should do with international collaboration component, and what's the optimum way in which we can reach the goal as early as possible with minimal investment because these are all investment-intensive and also they take their own time," he told PTI.

Not just funds, resources in terms of human and infrastructure, quite a lot of investment is needed if India is to do the venture alone, pointed out the former secretary in the Department of Space and ex-chairman of Space Commission.

"But the world has already moved there in that direction (human spaceflight) and therefore in the world today we have got quite a lot of capabilities available across globally. Our political relations are quite good with many of these countries (having such space capabilities) and so I think we should be able to develop models where we can optimally design a system by which we can move fast into the human spaceflight," Kasturirangan said.

However, he hasn't elaborated on the specific areas where foreign collaboration would help - like crew training, life support, safety systems, sending astronauts on other spacecrafts first for training etc. Or whether he favors a joint HSF program in partnership with other agencies like ESA or JAXA to spread the cost.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/03/2017 12:52 am
All the new flurry of activity around crewed missions in the US may be attracting attention in India as well.
The LVM3, which Dr Kasturirangan played a key role in pushing for, will soon be coming online and its specs obviously offer more potential for HSF purposes. Given that Indian govt approval for HSF is contingent on budgetary considerations, perhaps elder guides like Dr Kasturirangan are now advocating foreign partnerships as a way to overcome budgetary hurdles. More active pursuit of HSF missions would offer more scope for making use of LVM3 (dare we even think of an LVM4 with the extra pair of boosters?)


I'm not sure whom India could go for partnership with, if the main goal is cost-sharing. Perhaps Japan, or even SouthKorea? They'd certainly bring great technology to the table, too. I really have to admire the incredibly lightweight construction of Japanese launch vehicles, even if they are very expensive. India could certainly learn from the Japanese on how to make the most of composites for mass savings. But the Japanese would never discard H2A, especially after all they've invested in it.


What India needs is someone with money, but who doesn't have a launch platform of their own they're already invested in. I think private space tourism best fits that description. The question is where to get the money to kickstart the upfront development required for HSF and space tourism?


I dunno - maybe Antrix or some similar construct should consider a bond offering to raise money for this. As a public sector unit (PSU), Antrix is currently wholly owned by the govt of India and is administered by the Dept of Space. Given the unique risks of HSF, maybe it calls for the creation of a separate entity parallel to Antrix, in order to isolate/compartmentalize any potential liability risks related to HSF. That new entity could then raise external capital through bond offerings, which would be used to fund the development of HSF, with an eye to providing returns via Space Tourism revenues.


India already has the skilled manpower and technical base, the infrastructure base, and certain cost advantages.
There is a decades-old heritage of pursuit of space technology.
There is a proven track record of monetizing space capabilities and obtaining Return on Investment.
What India really needs is the upfront capital to jumpstart HSF and accelerate development in this direction, so that it won't be completely left behind in the space race.


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: baldusi on 03/03/2017 11:42 am
The next generation LV will take the boosters and upper stage of the LVM3 and replace the core with an SCE-200 powered kerolox stage. That should give them plenty of performance for a crewed capsule.
What I would guess that they meant for cooperation is more like ISS and Chinese space station docking rights, telemetry and control, ECLSS, etc.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/03/2017 04:51 pm
What about Russia? India's space program owes a lot to Russian technology, and both countries have collaborated on various space-related projects before. Mir is no longer operational, but in the past the Russians have put forth ideas for a successor to Mir which has never materialized. The only potential complication I could see from such collaboration is in potentially running afoul of US sanctions laws - but who's to say those issues might not one day similarly apply to any collaboration with China/Tiangong?

Going back to Japan again - perhaps it's wrongheaded to think of one launch platform winning out over another, since half the launches could be done by JAXA and the other half by ISRO.

While not having a particularly large purse, another country with a good scientific/technical base is Israel. There could be a lot of natural complementarity between the 2 countries for space undertakings. Israel doesn't have a medium/heavy lift launch vehicle, while India does. Israel has a lot of expertise across the technology spectrum which could easily augment Indian technology.

I just don't see a whole lot to do for HSF in LEO which others haven't already done before - should India really be recapitulating the same space station-related HSF research of the past? How much osteoporosis or muscle atrophy do you need to measure? Why can't this just be done aboard a large crewed vehicle instead of having to dock with somebody's space station? What's needed is a poor man's space station like SpaceX's DragonLab, but maybe a little bigger.

Ultimately, it would be better to minimize the learning time in LEO, in order to move towards the Moon.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/04/2017 06:07 am
Another idea occurred to me - India has in the past leased nuclear submarines from Moscow for the purpose of gaining close experience in nuclear submarine operations.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/10/a-second-russian-nuclear-attack-submarine-for-india/

Perhaps something similar could be done by India in regards to a Russian-made space station. India could lease the space station for some limited period and send up its own flights to dock with it, and then perhaps eventually transfer it back to Russian hands. This might allow India to gain vital experience as well as carry out medical & other data-gathering vital for HSF and longterm space operations, while limiting the cost burden and the commitment. Such an arrangement might also allow India to maintain a better timetable in its HSF progress, without lagging as far behind as it otherwise might.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 04/18/2017 11:12 pm
10 years after key scientists gave their blessings for it, the human spaceflight program still hasn't yet gotten approval from the cabinet:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/a-decade-on-human-space-flight-not-in-priority-list-of-india/articleshow/58241073.cms

(prods govt)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 05/02/2017 02:20 am
India's Dept of Space has given funding approval for ISRO to carry out a satellite rendezvous-&-docking mission, even possibly carrying out material transfer between the 2 craft, to demonstrate a potential refueling capability:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/now-india-eyes-technology-to-put-people-in-space/articleshow/58467493.cms


Quote
BENGALURU: Isro's plan to develop technology that will allow two space vehicles to attach in orbit and also transfer material between them — described in technical terms as spacecraft docking and berthing — has been cleared by the department of space with a grant of Rs 10 crore. The technology will eventually allow Isro to transfer humans in space, but the immediate goal is to enable the refuelling of spacecraft to give them a longer life and transfer other crucial systems to spacecraft in orbit.

Senior scientist T K Anuradha had confirmed to TOI that experiments to this end were under way at the Isro Space Application Centre (Isac), Bengaluru, in 2016. Isro has already completed some ground simulations. A senior scientist said, "The plan is to launch two small spacecraft to test the technology in space. India operates a huge constellation of satellites and this technology will allow Isro to enhance their lives by refuelling them. It'll also reduce space debris."

The scientist added, "In most cases, the payloads on our satellites are still functioning when the satellite is decommissioned because it has expended its fuel. In future, we could enhance the life of satellites multiple times."

India is yet to become a member of the International Space Station, and human space programme is not in its immediate plans, but the eventual aim of the docking system is to send and bring back people from space. Former Isro chairman U R Rao, the chairman of Isro advisory committee, said, "It (the technology) could be used to transport people to space stations — bring back old people and put in newer ones — or even send people in to replace equipment on spacecraft and so on."

Isro has to overcome many challenges before it can attempt the transfer of people in space. For one, Isro must be equipped with capabilities that allow two spacecraft to find each other and remain in the same orbit. Rao said docking has to be automatic and many functions have to be executed by robots. There's also the challenge of managing the speeds of spacecraft when they near each other and to then dock safely.

Isro, according to documents in TOI's possession, is also building a special bus and payload module that will allow replacement of equipment on satellites in space.



Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/04/2017 01:10 am

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/isro-to-launch-its-heaviest-rocket-gslv-mk-iii-that-could-ferry-indians-into-space-10-facts-1707599


Some points made in relation to ISRO's GSLV Mk III rocket and possible human spaceflight:

Quote
ISRO has already developed critical technologies toward its astronaut program: the space suit is ready, a crew module was tested in 2014 and the drawings on how to ferry a crew of two to three astronauts into space from India are ready.

After government clearance, it would still take ISRO seven years of hard work to be able to ferry Indian into space. Every such launch will cost Rs. 300 crore.

After six successful attempts, the rocket will be human rated.

This is definitely less than 15 years which is how long it took ISRO to make this beast.

ISRO suggests that the first person to fly into space from India be a woman.

The last Indian to fly into space was Squadron leader Rakesh Sharma. He went into space as part of a joint programme by ISRO and the Soviet Intercosmos space programme way back in 1984. He had spent eight days in space.

Former Chairman of ISRO Dr K Kasturirangan has said: "the success of GSLV Mk III will usher a new era of our self- reliance." 

This rocket has impressive vital stats too. At 43 meters, it is higher than a 13 storied building.

The GSLV MK III can carry six-10 tons of payload into low earth orbits.

With this launch, ISRO also enters the heavyweight club of world rockets. At 640 tons, its heaviest monster weighs as much as five fully loaded Jumbo Jets.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/04/2017 03:26 am
Another news report from last year quoted S Somanath as putting a figure of INR 40,000 crore that the govt needs to approve for the agency to formally start a full-fledged human spaceflight programme. At current exchange rates, it translates to over USD 6 billion, nearly three times the yearly budget of ISRO. It remains to be seen if the govt would be ready to make financial commitments on that scale for a programme with dubious near term benefits, at least under the current state of the economy.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/06/2017 04:10 am
Another news report from last year quoted S Somanath as putting a figure of INR 40,000 crore that the govt needs to approve for the agency to formally start a full-fledged human spaceflight programme. At current exchange rates, it translates to over USD 6 billion, nearly three times the yearly budget of ISRO. It remains to be seen if the govt would be ready to make financial commitments on that scale for a programme with dubious near term benefits, at least under the current state of the economy.

But perhaps "formally" is the key word here. It looks like ISRO will continue to develop all the key elements required for a human space flight program, until they're just a screw-turn away. At that point it will be a fait d'accompli, no longer requiring as steep a price tag, and might be easier to pitch to the public. Personally, I don't feel public opinion is the real obstacle - it's mainly govt fears of partisan political sniping.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/06/2017 04:21 pm
Another news report from last year quoted S Somanath as putting a figure of INR 40,000 crore that the govt needs to approve for the agency to formally start a full-fledged human spaceflight programme. At current exchange rates, it translates to over USD 6 billion, nearly three times the yearly budget of ISRO. It remains to be seen if the govt would be ready to make financial commitments on that scale for a programme with dubious near term benefits, at least under the current state of the economy.

But perhaps "formally" is the key word here. It looks like ISRO will continue to develop all the key elements required for a human space flight program, until they're just a screw-turn away. At that point it will be a fait d'accompli, no longer requiring as steep a price tag, and might be easier to pitch to the public. Personally, I don't feel public opinion is the real obstacle - it's mainly govt fears of partisan political sniping.
I kept similar thoughts too until some time back, that rather than seeking a grand funding commitment in one go ISRO could somehow split the HSF programme into small, manageable milestones that they could progressively accomplish under the radar. But it would seem that isn't workable beyond a limit. There appears to be a point beyond which the agency would require an explicit commitment from the government, and a large allocation of funds, to complete the remaining work. Atleast this has been the hint from senior ISRO leadership on the question in many recent interviews. Perhaps there are valid reasons for that.

The bottleneck as stated before is the scale of funding that is required, and the lack of any apparent near-term benefits other than a show-off of sorts. The stiff opposition to such a move may not be just from the traditional quarters - champions of poverty-vs-space 'welfare politics', but even from the Finance ministry as they grapple with a lower-than-expected economic growth, funding crunches and a commitment to keep fiscal deficit within certain limits. Of course there are undeniable long term benefits and even the allocation of this 40,000 crores would be spread over many fiscals, but whether that still justify this scale of commitment now (by comparison MOM reportedly cost only 450 crores) would be a valid question in the eyes of many.

The Chinese had it easy in many ways due to their different political environment and the support from a rapid economic growth, but for now India has neither of these luxuries to count on. Govt would be a bit wary, and it has good reasons to be. But then there is a chance that with the runaway success of GSLV-III D1, they *might* risk the plunge. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/06/2017 07:54 pm
It would have to wait until after the 2019 elections, at a minimum.

EDIT:
Also, it's not clear what the breakdown on that pricetag is - what exactly would the Rs.40,000 Crores go into?
What scope is there for cutting down this amount? What might be pared off or deferred, to lower the pricetag?
Might there perhaps be a way to split the Human Spaceflight Program into major sections which could be separately approved, or tiered in some way? Since the main hurdles are political, I think some creative accounting may be required here.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/10/2017 10:55 am
Another thing I'd like to ask - how many more unmanned test flights will ISRO's Crew Module have to undergo, before it can carry live passengers? There's already been the suborbital flight of the Crew Module aboard the LVM3-X/CARE mission, but surely that's not enough, is it? China did 4 unmanned flights of Shenzhou before flying live passengers. How many more should India do?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: EgorBotts on 06/10/2017 12:57 pm
Another thing I'd like to ask - how many more unmanned test flights will ISRO's Crew Module have to undergo, before it can carry live passengers? There's already been the suborbital flight of the Crew Module aboard the LVM3-X/CARE mission, but surely that's not enough, is it? China did 4 unmanned flights of Shenzhou before flying live passengers. How many more should India do?

It depends largely on the space agency, but usually there are at least one full orbital test with crew and service module, life support systems, atmospheric reentry tests, etc. In early space flight history, a lot of these subsystems were tested with animals and subscaled capsule. In addition, abort tests are necessary.
My non-specialised guess is at least 2 "almost ready" flights before a first manned attempt.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: maint1234 on 06/10/2017 02:06 pm
Why not involve one of the mideast countries like UAE  from the financing angle?
UAE i believe has previously shown interest in a collabaration with India in space matters.
One crew member could be from UAE for the flights.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/10/2017 02:26 pm
Another thing I'd like to ask - how many more unmanned test flights will ISRO's Crew Module have to undergo, before it can carry live passengers? There's already been the suborbital flight of the Crew Module aboard the LVM3-X/CARE mission, but surely that's not enough, is it? China did 4 unmanned flights of Shenzhou before flying live passengers. How many more should India do?
They need to be really, really confident that things would work as expected as the lives of people are at stake. There could be multiple unmanned flights of the final mission-ready stack. This could be preceded by test flights for evaluating propulsion module, life support systems etc..
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/10/2017 02:29 pm
Why not involve one of the mideast countries like UAE  from the financing angle?
UAE i believe has previously shown interest in a collabaration with India in space matters.
One crew member could be from UAE for the flights.
Even if the Arabs or any other nation were interested, it might be seen as a compromise on strategic autonomy by both ISRO and the Govt, as someone else gets to have a say on how missions are run.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/10/2017 02:52 pm
Would an initial orbital flight be expected to do just a single orbit? What would such an initial manned flight be expected to look like?
Presumably the Crew Capsule won't be mounted the way it was in the LVM3-X/CARE mission (upside-down inside a fairing) and will instead have the classical tractor-LAS-rocket mounted on top of the capsule, which would be mounted where the payload fairing would normally be. Are there any illustrations available of such a flight-configuration (ie, of capsule mounted on Mk3)?  Because given how small the capsule is compared to the standard fairing, it's probably going to give Mk3 a shrunken-head look.

I've read in recent articles that ISRO would like India's first astronaut to be a woman - does this mean the first flight will be a single individual?  (I guess it makes sense to not risk multiple lives on an initial flight, even though the capsule is supposed to be able to hold 3 people)
Any other useful criteria for India's first indigenously-launched astronaut? (I assume it'll be an air force pilot, even though some people have said it should be an engineer)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 06/10/2017 03:03 pm
I would still like to know what the long-term goal of the indian piloted space programme is.   Right now it seems to be nothing more than orbiting a few people with no indications of anything beyond that - like work on orbital stations, etc.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/10/2017 03:43 pm
Would an initial orbital flight be expected to do just a single orbit? What would such an initial manned flight be expected to look like?
Presumably the Crew Capsule won't be mounted the way it was in the LVM3-X/CARE mission (upside-down inside a fairing) and will instead have the classical tractor-LAS-rocket mounted on top of the capsule, which would be mounted where the payload fairing would normally be. Are there any illustrations available of such a flight-configuration (ie, of capsule mounted on Mk3)?  Because given how small the capsule is compared to the standard fairing, it's probably going to give Mk3 a shrunken-head look.

I've read in recent articles that ISRO would like India's first astronaut to be a woman - does this mean the first flight will be a single individual?  (I guess it makes sense to not risk multiple lives on an initial flight, even though the capsule is supposed to be able to hold 3 people)
Any other useful criteria for India's first indigenously-launched astronaut? (I assume it'll be an air force pilot, even though some people have said it should be an engineer)

These are some pretty old illustrations that were floating around. Not sure if they were from official ISRO sources or merely fan renderings. And the design might have changed considerably in recent times.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/10/2017 03:46 pm
To add to my previous post, note that the launch vehicle depicted in second pic is a GSLV-II (as was the plan originally), while it will instead be GSLV-III as per all recent statements from ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/10/2017 03:52 pm
I would still like to know what the long-term goal of the indian piloted space programme is.   Right now it seems to be nothing more than orbiting a few people with no indications of anything beyond that - like work on orbital stations, etc.
All we know for sure is that ISRO has submitted a proposal in detail to the govt for its consideration and approval. There might be some long-term plans outlined in the proposal, but ISRO sources haven't revealed anything on it so far.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/10/2017 04:15 pm
I would still like to know what the long-term goal of the indian piloted space programme is.   Right now it seems to be nothing more than orbiting a few people with no indications of anything beyond that - like work on orbital stations, etc.

Perhaps that case will have to be better articulated before the Indian govt will grant approval, since after all, questions like yours will definitely be asked in the parliament if the govt commits to that expenditure. There's already a debate in the Indian scientific community about whether HSF would be worthwhile.

- There's the idea that access to space inherently includes human access to it
- There's the space exploitation argument, which may still include talk about lunar He-3
- There's the argument that India must stay relevant in contributing to scientific & technological progress
- There are geopolitical concerns that other powers could get together to form clubs that shut out "have-nots"
- There's the "soft power" argument that flying with astronauts from other countries could be useful for diplomacy
- There's the market opportunity argument, that space tourism could be a revenue stream
There are probably some more, which I can't think of immediately offhand

To add to my previous post, note that the launch vehicle depicted in second pic is a GSLV-II (as was the plan originally), while it will instead be GSLV-III as per all recent statements from ISRO.

Yeah, those were the pics I was thinking of in regards to the flight configuration of the capsule - I just hadn't seen it on Mk3 - oh well, I suppose it's easy enough to transpose mentally. But like I said, the "fat boy" will look like it has a shrunken head. What's the weight of the capsule again?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 06/10/2017 04:18 pm
The CARE capsule they tested in LVM3-X mission weighed 3.5 tonnes. An actual human-rated capsule might weigh different, and then there is the mass of the propulsion module to be added too to get the total mass of the spacecraft.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: RonM on 06/10/2017 04:43 pm
I would still like to know what the long-term goal of the indian piloted space programme is.   Right now it seems to be nothing more than orbiting a few people with no indications of anything beyond that - like work on orbital stations, etc.

Perhaps that case will have to be better articulated before the Indian govt will grant approval, since after all, questions like yours will definitely be asked in the parliament if the govt commits to that expenditure. There's already a debate in the Indian scientific community about whether HSF would be worthwhile.

- There's the idea that access to space inherently includes human access to it
- There's the space exploitation argument, which may still include talk about lunar He-3
- There's the argument that India must stay relevant in contributing to scientific & technological progress
- There are geopolitical concerns that other powers could get together to form clubs that shut out "have-nots"
- There's the "soft power" argument that flying with astronauts from other countries could be useful for diplomacy
- There's the market opportunity argument, that space tourism could be a revenue stream
There are probably some more, which I can't think of immediately offhand

Geopolitical concerns and soft power are important for a nation to be considered a world power. India has the fifth largest economy in the world, the third largest active military, and is part of the ballistic missile submarine club (only six countries). Adding human spaceflight would put India in an even more exclusive club as being the fourth nation with that capability (assuming USA can get back in the game with commercial crew).

Even if India doesn't build their own space station they can still be a valuable partner by flying crew to ISS or some other space station.

This can boost India's bid to become a member of the UN Security Council. International prestige is important. There's more to this than research and engineering.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2017 12:47 am
ISRO has released a research proposal for analyzing atmospheric re-entry of cryo stage and crew module as part of their RESPOND program dated March 2017 (http://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/article-files/sponsored-research-respond/supported-areas-of-research/research_areas_in_space_docmarch_2017.pdf):

Re-entry Trajectory Design and Analysis of Two Closely Following Bodies with a Possibility of Break ups (VSSC):
Re-entry trajectory design is complex as large amount of heat has to be dissipated and structural integrity of the body has to be ensured. Design becomes challenging when two bodies closely follow each other. This
typically occurs in one of the missions where crew module and cryostage enters the Earth’s atmosphere and are in close vicinity. The possibility of cryostage breakup during the re-entry is to be analyzed. Number of pieces
during the break-up is to be evaluated based upon detailed structural analysis of the cryo stage components. The survivability of these pieces and the effect of impact of these pieces on the ongoing crew module are to
be assessed.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2017 01:03 am
Few more HSP research areas:

Dynamic Modelling and Analysis of Human Body Exposed to Vibration Environment During Space Flight (VSSC)
In manned mission, human body may be exposed to various severe environments for a long time. This may be detrimental to life or may cause illness/fatigue to the body. One of the major environments is vibration.
Therefore, it is essential to study the influence of vibration on human body and necessary to find solutions to prevent such environment. To understand the effect of vibration on human body, it is required to generate
three-dimensional dynamic model of the human body and carryout dynamic analysis for human biomechanical responses. The human body shall be idealized using beam, spring and mass elements to represent the various
dynamics of the body. The model needs to be validated with the available literature / test results.

Development of Thermoplastic Elastometers for LCVG for Space Suit (VSSC):
Liquid Cooling & Ventilation Garment (LCVG) of space suit requires a "wicking material" which allows one-way water transport. Material usually used is a block copolymer based on polyethylene oxide (PEO) soft segment
and Polyether-ester block amide (PEBA) hard segment. The polymer should have high tear strength, toughness and water vapour transmission.

Ceramic Supported Lithium Hydroxide (LiOH) For Human Space Flight Programme (VSSC)
Lithium hydroxide is useful for the removal of carbon dioxide produced by human metabolism in the crew cabin of a manned spacecraft. For efficient absorption of carbon dioxide, surface area of LiOH particles should be
maximum. This can be achieved by supporting LiOH particles on a highly porous ceramic material.

Development of Catalysts for Splitting of Carbon Dioxide (VSSC):
Atmosphere of Mars is reported to comprise mainly (95%) of carbon dioxide. It is suggested that oxygen for propulsion (for return flight to Earth) can be produced in Mars by catalytic splitting of carbon dioxide into carbon
monoxide and oxygen. Another method is to reduce carbon dioxide using hydrogen (transported from Earth) to produce oxygen and methane. Development of catalysts for these reactions and optimisation of reaction conditions will go a long way in realizing Mars explorations.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/11/2017 01:24 am
ISRO has released a research proposal for analyzing atmospheric re-entry of cryo stage and crew module as part of their RESPOND program dated March 2017 (http://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/article-files/sponsored-research-respond/supported-areas-of-research/research_areas_in_space_docmarch_2017.pdf):

Re-entry Trajectory Design and Analysis of Two Closely Following Bodies with a Possibility of Break ups (VSSC):
Re-entry trajectory design is complex as large amount of heat has to be dissipated and structural integrity of the body has to be ensured. Design becomes challenging when two bodies closely follow each other. This
typically occurs in one of the missions where crew module and cryostage enters the Earth’s atmosphere and are in close vicinity.
The possibility of cryostage breakup during the re-entry is to be analyzed. Number of pieces
during the break-up is to be evaluated based upon detailed structural analysis of the cryo stage components. The survivability of these pieces and the effect of impact of these pieces on the ongoing crew module are to
be assessed.

Why would cryo stage and capsule enter in close proximity - you mean like an abort scenario? Other than this, why would they re-enter in close proximity?


Development of Catalysts for Splitting of Carbon Dioxide (VSSC):
Atmosphere of Mars is reported to comprise mainly (95%) of carbon dioxide. It is suggested that oxygen for propulsion (for return flight to Earth) can be produced in Mars by catalytic splitting of carbon dioxide into carbon
monoxide and oxygen. Another method is to reduce carbon dioxide using hydrogen (transported from Earth) to produce oxygen and methane. Development of catalysts for these reactions and optimisation of reaction conditions will go a long way in realizing Mars explorations.

Why do they envision hydrogen transported from Earth, when there's water on Mars? Is this maybe for some mini-lander type of scenario where it can't really hunt around for water, and so you just bring some onboard hydrogen with you to do a Sabatier or Water Gas-Shift reaction?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vyoma on 06/11/2017 01:56 am
ISRO has released a research proposal for analyzing atmospheric re-entry of cryo stage and crew module as part of their RESPOND program dated March 2017 (http://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/article-files/sponsored-research-respond/supported-areas-of-research/research_areas_in_space_docmarch_2017.pdf):

Re-entry Trajectory Design and Analysis of Two Closely Following Bodies with a Possibility of Break ups (VSSC):
Re-entry trajectory design is complex as large amount of heat has to be dissipated and structural integrity of the body has to be ensured. Design becomes challenging when two bodies closely follow each other. This
typically occurs in one of the missions where crew module and cryostage enters the Earth’s atmosphere and are in close vicinity.
The possibility of cryostage breakup during the re-entry is to be analyzed. Number of pieces
during the break-up is to be evaluated based upon detailed structural analysis of the cryo stage components. The survivability of these pieces and the effect of impact of these pieces on the ongoing crew module are to
be assessed.

Why would cryo stage and capsule enter in close proximity - you mean like an abort scenario? Other than this, why would they re-enter in close proximity?

I just now noticed that these research proposals were there in 2013 RESPOND program as well. Looks like it was for LVM3-X1/CARE mission where there was a possibility of dummy cryostage and crew module re-entering atmosphere in close proximity.

Here's an old post about it: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15187.msg1146807#msg1146807
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/21/2017 03:42 pm
Russia has said it may train Indian astronauts:

http://tass.com/science/952522

Quote
Russia may help India to train astronauts, deputy PM says

Science & Space June 21, 8:15 UTC+3
The deputy prime minister believes it's time for a more large-scale cooperation in the space sphere with India

NOVOSIBIRSK, June 21. /TASS/. Russia may help India to train its astronauts in the future, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Wednesday.

"In prospect, it is possible to train Indian astronauts on the basis of our center of Roscosmos," Rogozin told the meeting of a bilateral high-level commission for cooperation in advanced technologies for military and civilian purposes.

Rogozin also said he informed India’s Finance Minister, Minister of Defense and Minister of Corporate Affairs Arun Jaitley about the prospects of Russia’s manned spacecraft and the development of the International Space Station (ISS).

"But we should see the prospect after 2024," Rogozin said. "I believe we could discuss cooperation between Russia and India in this area as part of the commission." He explained that it is also possible to gain profit due to creating new generation spacecraft for the Earth’s remote sensing, navigation, communications and researches of the far space.

The deputy prime minister noted that India "has made serious headway in this area" and Russia is carefully watching the success of its Indian partners. "We believe it’s time for a more large-scale cooperation in this area," he stressed.


So that sounds like a useful idea - since the Indian govt is hesitant on going whole-hog in formally announcing a Human Spaceflight Program (due to the sizeable pricetag of Rs.40,000Cr), then why not reach out to the space programs of more advanced countries, like Roskosmos and NASA, by seeking to contract with them for the opportunity to train through their facilities? This would allow India continue forward progress on Human Spaceflight without suffering needless delays due to domestic politics, and it will allow the agencies of other countries to defray their own costs while also helping to shape and harmonize the practices of newcomers like India with respect to Human Spaceflight.

Space is inevitably going to involve more and more international cooperation and coordination, so joint training could play a useful role in creating necessary familiarity with each other's practices, as well as promoting common best practices, etc.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanjaykumar on 06/23/2017 04:35 pm
Quote
So that sounds like a useful idea - since the Indian govt is hesitant on going whole-hog in formally announcing a Human Spaceflight Program (due to the sizeable pricetag of Rs.40,000Cr),

40,000 Cr  spend would be peanuts for GOI.  At 2017 budget the infrastructure spend  alone is Rs 3,96,135 crore.
It is all about what benefits a human inside a drum  in orbit would provide for the amount spent.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/budget-2017-10-measures-to-boost-indias-infrastructure/articleshow/56909732.cms
 (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/budget-2017-10-measures-to-boost-indias-infrastructure/articleshow/56909732.cms)




Quote
Space is inevitably going to involve more and more international cooperation and coordination, so joint training could play a useful role in creating necessary familiarity with each other's practices, as well as promoting common best practices, etc.

An regarding space cooperation...  all finally boils down to business and hard $$$.  With the Cryo engine technology  transfer fiasco with USSR - Russia - USA,  Chandrayaan -2 Russian Rover project flip flops,
and .... Aah  do you remember the early Insat being hit by crane ? and solar panels getting stuck in orbit....

ISRO would take space cooperation with pinch of salt.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 06/23/2017 05:35 pm
40,000 Cr  spend would be peanuts for GOI.  At 2017 budget the infrastructure spend  alone is Rs 3,96,135 crore.
It is all about what benefits a human inside a drum  in orbit would provide for the amount spent.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/budget-2017-10-measures-to-boost-indias-infrastructure/articleshow/56909732.cms
 (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/budget-2017-10-measures-to-boost-indias-infrastructure/articleshow/56909732.cms)

Don't just think of the human in the drum - think of what lies beyond that - any manned program has to start out with a human in a drum. Think of the greater "cis-lunar economy" that's likely to develop in the future - this will likely involve some manned activity/presence - and how the more you lag behind, the harder it is to nudge your way in. India built 3 bases in Antarctica over the years, and has promoted Antarctic tourism - so likewise in the same vein, what's wrong with positioning itself for future space tourism, where it may be able to leverage cost advantages? The space industry is a very value-added industry, constantly pushing the bounds of technological advancement and attracting the best and brightest minds in the process, and space travelers may yet become the most abundant payload opportunity ever seen.


Quote
An regarding space cooperation...  all finally boils down to business and hard $$$.  With the Cryo engine technology  transfer fiasco with USSR - Russia - USA,  Chandrayaan -2 Russian Rover project flip flops,
and .... Aah  do you remember the early Insat being hit by crane ? and solar panels getting stuck in orbit....

ISRO would take space cooperation with pinch of salt.

Well, teething/growing pains often happen in any sector - but manned spaceflight isn't considered a militarily sensitive area. And the more players there are, the more options/alternatives there are for achieving forward progress.

Collaborations in space are a way of demonstration/earning technical credibility, and anchoring international cooperation to higher/loftier goals like furthering human expansion into the cosmos.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 07/16/2017 05:01 pm
ISRO Chief says satellites are the priority right now, not human space flight:

http://idrw.org/satellites-are-our-priority-now-not-human-space-flight-isro-chief/
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/02/2017 02:52 am
Pad Abort Test to be conducted soon, as part of preparation for Human Spaceflight Program:

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/others/another-small-step-towards-human-space-mission/articleshow/61427382.cms

Quote
ISRO Chairman AS Kiran Kumar said that though the launch of the human mission is still some time away, a pad abort test would be conducted.

"In the earlier tests that were carried, the crew module had taken off from the launch site and had reached a certain altitude after which it was brought down. In this test, we can find out how to get the crew from the launch pad in the eventuality of an emergency at the launch pad itself," Kumar said.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/16/2018 06:57 pm
ISRO technically ready for human space missions, says Prof Suresh

https://www.aninews.in/news/science/isro-technically-ready-for-human-space-missions201802161748380001/

Quote
ANI | Updated: Feb 16, 2018 17:51 IST

New Delhi [India], Feb.16 (ANI): The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is ready with technologies needed for human space missions and only political clearance is needed, according to a senior professor.

Delivering the spotlight address at the fourth ORF-Kalpana Chawla Space Dialogue here today, B N Suresh, Honorary Distinguished Professor of the ISRO, said as far as ISRO is concerned, its team is ready to undertake such missions.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 02/27/2018 05:14 am
Pad abort test article shipped from SAC in march of 2017. No test one year later. I think they might have forgotten about human spaceflight program.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: russianhalo117 on 02/27/2018 05:16 am
Pad abort test article shipped from SAC in march of 2017. No test one year later. I think they might have forgotten about human spaceflight program.
or there are other priorities right now.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 02/27/2018 05:57 am
Pad abort test article shipped from SAC in march of 2017. No test one year later. I think they might have forgotten about human spaceflight program.
or there are other priorities right now.

ISRO has only carried out one launch in the last 6 months so i dont think that is it. The infrastructure upgrades needed for pad abort test have been ready since last september along with funding so at this point in time there should be nothing stopping them carrying out a pad abort test. 

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 02/27/2018 07:24 am
Pad abort test article shipped from SAC in march of 2017. No test one year later. I think they might have forgotten about human spaceflight program.
or there are other priorities right now.

ISRO has only carried out one launch in the last 6 months so i dont think that is it. The infrastructure upgrades needed for pad abort test have been ready since last september along with funding so at this point in time there should be nothing stopping them carrying out a pad abort test.
They may not consider it a high priority at the moment as govt is unlikely to greenlight an HSF program anytime soon due to financial constraints.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/31/2018 01:43 am
In the post-event speech for the GSLV F-08 launch, ISRO chief Dr K Sivan mentions something about a technology demonstration mission relating to human spaceflight - which mission is he talking about?

It's mentioned near the end of his remarks @1:19:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzERHkm_Ld8
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 03/31/2018 04:33 am
In the post-event speech for the GSLV F-08 launch, ISRO chief Dr K Sivan mentions something about a technology demonstration mission relating to human spaceflight - which mission is he talking about?

It's mentioned near the end of his remarks @1:19:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzERHkm_Ld8

He is probably referring to the pad abort test. I would take it with a huge grain of salt as isro chairman has said the same thing after the last few launches and nothing has come of it so far.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 07/07/2018 11:23 pm
Next month, ISRO to produce internal document outlining technology development requirements for future human spaceflight:

https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/isro-to-prepare-document-under-human-spaceflight-programme-in-months-time-says-isro-chairman/1235373/

Quote
Days after it successfully carried out a flight test for a new system, meant for saving lives of astronauts in an exigency, ISRO today said it would approve in a month’s time an ‘internal document’ on developing crucial technologies under its Human Spaceflight Programme. “No human spaceflight programme has been approved in India yet. We had prepared the document to develop crucial technologies in 2004. Now we are in the process of revising it. In a month’s time, we will approve our internal document,” ISRO Chairman Dr K Sivan told reporters after the 11th annual Katre Memorial Lecture here.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/08/2018 01:45 am
So, will these "crucial technologies" result in a flight ready crew capsule? :-)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 07/08/2018 04:25 am
Hmm, well the estimates on the timeline seem to vary.

A previous ISRO chairman, Dr K Radhakrishnan says that a manned spaceflight could be done in 6-7 years once there is a national mandate for it:

https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/the-interviews-blog/given-a-national-mandate-india-could-target-the-first-human-flight-in-space-within-next-6-7-years/

But according to current ISRO officials, it would be another 10 years at least before a manned spaceflight could occur:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/manned-mission-isros-dream-still-a-long-way-away/articleshow/64897407.cms


At least pieces are being put into place, pending official approval and a full-on effort.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 05:43 am
As mentioned in other threads, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in his Independence Day speech, has announced that India will carry out a manned spaceflight mission by (or before) 2022:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-to-launch-first-manned-space-mission-by-2022-pm-modi/articleshow/65410373.cms

For Indians, this is like JFK's speech exhorting Americans to go to the Moon.  :)

The mission will be called Gaganyaan.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/15/2018 06:09 am
The name of the crewed spacecraft is "Gaganyaan".

"When India celebrates 75th year of Independence in 2022, an Indian son or daughter will undertake a manned space mission on board 'Gaganyaan' carrying the national flag," the PM announced from the ramparts of the Red Fort. This would make India the fourth nation to send a human in space after the United States, Russia and China."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 08/15/2018 06:36 am
Will Iran beat India?

And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 06:51 am
No idea - but India doesn't want to be left behind in the race to space - and it's always possible that achieving the manned spaceflight goal may open up new ones.

I'm wondering which launch vehicle will be used - will it be GLSV-Mk2, or GSLV-Mk3?
I'm assuming it will be the latter, although if the crew capsule weighs ~4000kg, then both would be capable of lofting that to LEO.

Given the milestones that have been hit so far on the road to a manned mission, I wonder which further milestones within that are still yet to be done, in order for ISRO to be ready?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 08/15/2018 06:56 am
Will Iran beat India?

And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?

Iran's space capabilities are very rudimentary as compared to India and given the state of their economy,it would not be possible for them to pursue a manned space program at present.

As far as goals regarding India's manned mission is concerned,as rightly said by you,flag waving is the primary aim,secondary maybe is to  create scientific temper amongst the masses,maybe also to earn revenues by sending people from other countries to space.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Phillip Clark on 08/15/2018 07:09 am
As far as goals regarding India's manned mission is concerned,as rightly said by you,flag waving is the primary aim,secondary maybe is to  create scientific temper amongst the masses,maybe also to earn revenues by sending people from other countries to space.

When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals.   When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.

But India has no declared space station programme.   So apart from maybe a flight or two to ISS before it is retired there is no "target" for Gaganyaan to fly to: unless India comes to a deal with China, of course, and politically will it want to do that?

And Gaganyaan solo missions would be extremely limited.   Would anyone from overseas want to purchase flights limited to Gaganyaan when ISS (for a while) and the Tiangong modular space station are available?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/15/2018 07:16 am
Will Iran beat India?

And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?

It is the pride of 1.20 billion people. India has been running the space program since the 1970s despite sanctions being imposed by the USA- led various technology denial regime. Human Space flight mission is not like sending a monkey to Space. Argentina sent a monkey on December 23, 1969. Correct me If I am wrong. What happened later vis-a-vis Space Program is known to you. India left Argentina decades behind. Manned mission is not a child's play. But India should have done technological preparation long ago.

Had Mrs. Indira Gandhi been there as a Prime Minister, India should have reached the goal by now I think, India - a nation with 1.20 billion people - with his burgeoning space program deserve to send a man to space. But India needs a man-rated launch vehicle. GSLV MK-III needs to have a 100% 8 to 9 successfull mission besides being manrated. The recent successful crew escape system test is the first step. RLV is not required for launching a manned mission. I don't know why some Indian Newspapers are attaching RLV to manned mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: PonRam on 08/15/2018 07:35 am
As far as goals regarding India's manned mission is concerned,as rightly said by you,flag waving is the primary aim,secondary maybe is to  create scientific temper amongst the masses,maybe also to earn revenues by sending people from other countries to space.

When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals.   When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.

But India has no declared space station programme.   So apart from maybe a flight or two to ISS before it is retired there is no "target" for Gaganyaan to fly to: unless India comes to a deal with China, of course, and politically will it want to do that?

And Gaganyaan solo missions would be extremely limited.   Would anyone from overseas want to purchase flights limited to Gaganyaan when ISS (for a while) and the Tiangong modular space station are available?

As far as LEO, space tourism could certainly be on the anvil. With low costs they can certainly compete. India does not seem to want to go for space stations, but they certainly have ambitions to build permanent structures on the Moon. Director of ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC) M. Annadurai said “We are seriously planning to use Moon as an outpost – like missions in Antarctica. In the long run the space station is likely to be scrapped. Many countries, including the US, are considering building more permanent structures on the Moon and working out of there. When it happens, we want India to have contributed”.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 07:48 am
When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals.   When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.

India is not the United States or Soviet Union, which were nowhere near as resource-constrained as India.
Naturally, the US & USSR could declare more sweeping goals, because they had much larger resources available to them.

India won't publically pin itself to goals that are beyond its means, and is instead more likely to pursue an incremental approach. That doesn't mean that higher goals won't eventually gradually appear, it just means they won't be committed to upfront.
Do you remember why NASA announced a "Flexible Path" strategy for its goals? It was in part due to the challenges that had emerged in securing sustainable funding commitments for big goals. That's why NASA hasn't sent people beyond Earth orbit in many decades. Approaches that were taken during the initial US-Soviet space race weren't really feasible anymore. Rather than evolving into such problems down the road, India faces these resource challenges from the start. That should be obvious - at least it is to me.


Quote
But India has no declared space station programme.   So apart from maybe a flight or two to ISS before it is retired there is no "target" for Gaganyaan to fly to: unless India comes to a deal with China, of course, and politically will it want to do that?

There's no question of India trying to sign on with China's space station. India will unveil any further agenda for manned orbital activities on its own timetable, as its capabilities progress. As pending goals are met, then newer ones can be created - whether it's for manned or unmanned missions should make no difference in that regard. When India sent its first probe to the Moon, did anybody ask what longer set of goals were on the cards? No - but that didn't stop a second lunar mission from being created later on, as a natural follow-on. Same thing for Mangalyaan - there's a next mission being discussed, even if it's not been approved or committed to.


Quote
And Gaganyaan solo missions would be extremely limited.   Would anyone from overseas want to purchase flights limited to Gaganyaan when ISS (for a while) and the Tiangong modular space station are available?

Might depend on cost - although I don't see India has any agenda for space tourism in its plans.

Again, I don't see why manned spaceflight should require some much longer-term set of goals to be declared upfront, as compared to unmanned missions. As resource margins grow, then perhaps longer-term plans could be committed to, but until then I don't see what's wrong with incremental progress.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 08:41 am
Comments from the ISRO chief:

http://www.india.com/news/india/gaganyaan-mission-deadline-looks-tough-but-india-has-capability-says-scientist-3224421/

Quote
Gaganyaan Mission: ISRO Says Already on Job, Working Towards Meeting PM's Target

Mumbai, Aug 15: In his Independence Day address to the nation, Prime Minister Narendra Modi promised to put an Indian in space by 2022 via an indigenous spacecraft. Reacting, the chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has said they were on the job already. “The PM has given the target of 2022 and it is our duty to meet it. We are already on the job…we have completed many technologies like crew module and escape systems. The project has been underway, now we need to prioritise and achieve the target,” K Sivan told ANI on Gaganyaan 2022 mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 08:59 am
Sivan says they'll use GSLV-Mk3 for the Gaganyaan mission. The manned flight would be preceded by at least 2 more unmanned flights.

https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/national/2018/08/15/del53-iday-gaganyaan-isro.html

Quote
Technology to send astronauts to space already developed ISRO on Gaganyaan PTI August 15, 2018 14:07 IST

    New Delhi, Aug 15 (PTI) Technologies that will help in sending an Indian astronaut to space - like human crew module and environment control and life support system - have already been developed, ISRO chairman K Sivan said today.

    Prior to the actual launch by 2022, the Indian Space Research Organisation will have two unmanned missions and spacecraft will be fired using Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark-III, Sivan said.

    "We have already developed the technology like human crew module, environment control and life support system. Before undertaking the launch, we will have two unmanned missions. We will use GLSV Mark-III for this project," Sivan told PTI.

    His remarks came after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced in his Independence Day address that India will attempt a manned mission into space by 2022 on board 'Gaganyaan'.

...

 K Radhakrishnan, former ISRO chairman under whose leadership the Mangalyaan mission was launched in 2013, termed the announcement of Gaganyaan mission a "turning point" for ISRO.

...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 09:11 am
Some Q & A with ISRO chairman Dr K Sivan on the Gaganyaan mission:

https://tech.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/technology/four-years-is-tight-but-can-achieve-the-human-spaceflight-isros-k-sivan/65411891

Quote
Four years is tight, but can achieve the human spaceflight: ISRO's K Sivan

"We have developed a crew module that can carry three people. We will initiate the work with the Indian Air Force to identify the people for the human spaceflight mission" said ISRO chairman K Sivan

Raghu Krishnan  |  ETtech  |  August 15, 2018, 12:53 IST
   

Prime Minister Narendra Modi announcement in his Independence day address that India will launch a human spaceflight by 2022 gives a formal seal to a proposal that was initiated over a decade by India's space agency.

Since then, Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) has been developing the building blocks in technologies that would help achieve a mission.

"We have already developed most of the technologies," Dr K Sivan, Isro chairman told ET's Raghu Krishnan in an interview. Edited Excerpts:

The Prime Minister has set 2022 for a human spaceflight. How confident are you to achieve this?

Four years is tight but doable. We have built the technologies that is required for a human spaceflight. We will prepare a project and achieve the mission within the deadline.

How many crew members will be on the human spaceflight?

We have developed a crew module that can carry three people. We will initiate the work with the Indian Air Force to identify the people for the human spaceflight mission.

What is the cost of the mission. Initial proposals talked about Rs 10,000 crore?

It will be lesser than that. We have already developed most of the technologies. What we need is to invest in building the systems and the infrastructure.

How will you raise the budget?

The Prime Minister has just announced the programme. We will send a detailed report to the government for the required funds. There has been no budget constraint for space programmes.

Which is the rocket earmarked for the human spaceflight mission?

It will be Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk-III (GSLV-MKIII). It will be manrated to carry 10 tonne payload to lower earth orbit. The actual payload will be lesser than that. We are already launching unmanned missions with this rocket.

Does Isro have the resources to do a human spaceflight in four years?

We will involve the private industry and academia in this mission. We have established partners in the indsutry who will be able to deliver the required equipment within the deadline. Isro will largely do the programme management.

There are gaps in the man machine interface in the crew module?

We are working on it. There is enough expertise in the industry that we will utilise for crew module to undertake a safe mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/15/2018 09:13 am
Will Iran beat India?

Iran's spacecraft is a one person capsule similar to Mercury, so much less ambitious than India's Gaganyaan. If they go all out, they might be able to do a suborbital flight on Simorgh above 100 km before India. For orbital flight, they'll need a bigger launch vehicle than Simorgh, which will take time to get developed. By the time that is ready, India will probably have Gaganyaan in orbit.

Quote
And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?

No sure, but one benefit would be to inspire students to focus more on STEM.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 10:39 am
'No less than seven days in space' says Sivan

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-will-put-man-in-space-for-seven-days-says-isro-chairman-after-modi-announces-space-mission-in-independence-day-speech/story-uYmUwOyXzCemKyd1APTmhP.html

Quote
For the first time, India’s space agency is planning to put an Indian astronaut for seven days in space at a cost less than Rs 10,000 crore as part of its manned mission by 2022, ISRO chairman K Sivan said on Wednesday.

With Prime Minister Narendra Modi giving the Indian Space Research Organisation the target to be achieved in the next four years, Sivan told IANS: “Our plan is to have a human being in space for seven days and not less than that.

He will be in a spacecraft, 300-400 km above earth,” Sivan said, as he explained that the rocket to be used for the manned mission would be a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark III (GSLV-Mk III). He said the first unmanned flight as part of a manned space mission will happen two years from now.

There will be two unmanned space missions before the actual manned space mission,” Sivan added.

In his Independence Day address to the nation, Modi said: “In space technology, we have dreamt something; our scientists have dreamt something. And I am happy to announce that by 2022, the 75th Independence year, we are planning a manned space mission.”

Asked about the first animal flight before the actual manned mission, Sivan said those things have to be discussed.

Queried about the target date set by Modi and the steps to be taken by ISRO, Sivan said: “We will have to get a formal approval for the project. The manned mission project cost will be less than Rs 10,000 crore... We are in the process of developing some of the technologies and already have some. Our idea is to develop everything within India.”

According to him, ISRO has already tested the crew module and crew escape systems. The space agency on July 5 carried out a successful maiden pad abort test at its spaceport Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh for the safe escape of the crew in an emergency. “The technology is very essential for our manned missions in the future,” Sivan had said at an event on July 7.

The critical technology is designed to quickly pull the crew module along with the astronauts to a safe distance from the launch vehicle in the event of a launch abort.

We are in the process of developing the life support system for the astronaut, space suit and other things. ISRO is doing this with the support of industries,” Sivan had said.

The ISRO chairman had then said that the space agency was “not close” to a human spaceflight yet. “We are not close to that. We need to work a lot towards achieving the dream of putting a man in space.”

According to him, the selection of astronaut to fly the spacecraft would be done by the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the spaceflight training would be given overseas.

Sivan said ISRO has to set up necessary infrastructural facilities like the control centres for the proposed manned mission. He added Modi’s announcement was a big kickstart and as a whole the nation’s science and technology sector would benefit.

So far, only the US, Russia and China have launched human space flights.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 12:31 pm
On Independence Day, Modi promises Indian manned space mission

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/asia/india-manned-space-flight-intl/index.html
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: RonM on 08/15/2018 03:39 pm
And apart from flag-waving, what are the goals of the Indian piloted space programme?

National prestige is important for foreign policy (soft power). It could be as simple as checking off another box for the major world power club. For example, the five permanent members of the UN Security Council and India are the only world powers with ballistic missile submarines. India would join the even more elite human spaceflight club.

Being able to send crews to ISS, China's space station, or any commercial space station would be a viable program. It also opens the possibility of joining future international missions.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: ncb1397 on 08/15/2018 05:19 pm
When the Soviet Union and the United States started piloted space missions the ultimate goals of either operating a space laboratory or a manned lunar programme were the goals.   When China had its first piloted mission the goal was clearly stated to be the development of an orbital station.

India is not the United States or Soviet Union, which were nowhere near as resource-constrained as India.
Naturally, the US & USSR could declare more sweeping goals, because they had much larger resources available to them.

India GDP is 2.6 trillion. GDP of U.S. in 1960 adjusted for inflation was 4.67 trillion. GDP of Soviet Union in 1970 was 2.88 trillion. Current Russian GDP is 1.5 trillion. This suggests that anything short of interplanetary is within reach for India to at least attempt.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: JH on 08/15/2018 05:42 pm
Argentina sent a monkey on December 23, 1969. Correct me If I am wrong.

They launched a capuchin on a suborbital rocket in 69, but it reached a maximum altitude of 82 km (documentation was apparently poor, as the range of estimated apogees extends from 30 km to 82 km). I'll leave it up to you to choose between the Kármán line or the Air Force/McDowell definition.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 09:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esVpzpKOX-U

Personally, I love the orange color of the Indian spacesuit, and don't find it to be "gaudy" at all.

But I guess this is a flight-suit type of spacesuit. If an EVA type of suit ever gets built later on, won't it probably have to be the standard all-white?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/15/2018 11:18 pm
RSTV public affairs program 'The Big Picture' discusses manned spaceflight announcement:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyEQOKDRQqs

Not sure why they even mention reusability, because that likely has nothing to do with this initial manned space mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/16/2018 12:16 am
V.R. Lalithambika has been appointed as the Director of the Human Space Flight Project:

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/with-human-space-flight-india-to-push-frontiers/article24698496.ece

Quote
V.R. Lalithambika, a specialist in advanced launcher technologies, will helm the project as Director of the Human Space Flight Project.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/16/2018 05:52 pm
India GDP is 2.6 trillion. GDP of U.S. in 1960 adjusted for inflation was 4.67 trillion. GDP of Soviet Union in 1970 was 2.88 trillion. Current Russian GDP is 1.5 trillion. This suggests that anything short of interplanetary is within reach for India to at least attempt.

With the political decision-making apparatus in USSR &  China being more centralized, they seem to be good at undertaking grand projects and seeing them through. Meanwhile in the US or India, there's a greater need to get the public onboard. This is why NASA has moved into doing so much public outreach, and ISRO seems to be heading in this direction too.

While India is starting out from a lower base, given its higher GDP growth rate, its lower wage costs, and the dividends from technological development, this may give the Prime Minister's Office more confidence in taking risks by backing bold leaps forward in space. And it does create feel-good flag-waving opportunities, of course.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/16/2018 06:50 pm
'No less than seven days in space' says Sivan

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-will-put-man-in-space-for-seven-days-says-isro-chairman-after-modi-announces-space-mission-in-independence-day-speech/story-uYmUwOyXzCemKyd1APTmhP.html

Quote
For the first time, India’s space agency is planning to put an Indian astronaut for seven days in space at a cost less than Rs 10,000 crore as part of its manned mission by 2022, ISRO chairman K Sivan said on Wednesday.

With Prime Minister Narendra Modi giving the Indian Space Research Organisation the target to be achieved in the next four years, Sivan told IANS: “Our plan is to have a human being in space for seven days and not less than that.


So I guess 7 days is considered a minimum threshold to demonstrate a decent capability for sustaining human operations in space.

But what do you do for 7 days? Just sit there in a capsule and twiddle your thumbs?


I guess hoping for a spacewalk on this first mission would be out of the question, given the complications and risks it would add to a mission which is already on a tight timeline.

But what other lesser things could they do to add value to the mission, without adding too much risk or complexity?

Are there any other useful capabilities which could be demonstrated, besides just surviving in space for 7 days?

As a side note, I think if the mission progresses smoothly without any hitches, then it could be nice to have the astronaut hold a live conversation with a bunch of schoolkids, or something like that. This could give ISRO a nice opportunity for public outreach, while also giving inspiration and motivation to a younger generation for pursuing STEM.
Hopefully any cameras and video-streaming from this mission will support a good picture quality and framerate, to properly record these grand historical milestone moments for posterity (it would be a shame to be stuck watching this in some noisy grainy low-res quality that makes it harder to watch)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/16/2018 08:53 pm
Also, what about the idea of a 'glass cockpit' for the Indian crew capsule? I've read that the capsule interior is still being worked on. Would that really take too long to develop?

SpaceX's Dragon2 has the snazzy big touchscreens to provide lots of data and interactivity, without taking up too much room. When touchscreens are now available even on cars and small aircraft, then why not for a manned Indian spacecraft?

Or is it too different and untried to be attempting for an initial spaceflight? You could still have regular backup controls, in case it didn't work.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/16/2018 11:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ecmj3sM5c
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/17/2018 02:44 am
If the first Gaganyaan mission is pulled off successfully, then what could a follow-up mission be about?

What's the natural pattern of progression?

I'm imagining first flight is the one lone astronaut, then second flight would be a crew of 3 astronauts, and then the 3rd flight would be focused on spacewalk / EVA.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: ZachS09 on 08/17/2018 04:37 am
If the first Gaganyaan mission is pulled off successfully, then what could a follow-up mission be about?

What's the natural pattern of progression?

I'm imagining first flight is the one lone astronaut, then second flight would be a crew of 3 astronauts, and then the 3rd flight would be focused on spacewalk / EVA.

I’m thinking the same as well. It seems that this pattern is nearly reminiscent of the early Shenzhou flights:

#1: Shenzhou 5 carried one astronaut into space for 21 hours
#2: Shenzhou 6 carried two astronauts into space for a 4-day mission
#3: Shenzhou 7 carried three astronauts into space for the nation’s first spacewalk despite the mission lasting only three days
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/17/2018 05:24 am
I’m thinking the same as well. It seems that this pattern is nearly reminiscent of the early Shenzhou flights:

#1: Shenzhou 5 carried one astronaut into space for 21 hours
#2: Shenzhou 6 carried two astronauts into space for a 4-day mission
#3: Shenzhou 7 carried three astronauts into space for the nation’s first spacewalk despite the mission lasting only three days

So China did 4 unmanned Shenzhou flights before proceeding to manned. Is ISRO then cutting corners by saying it'll just be 2 unmanned flights first? Hopefully those 2 can allow all the necessary validation.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: ZachS09 on 08/17/2018 06:21 am
I’m thinking the same as well. It seems that this pattern is nearly reminiscent of the early Shenzhou flights:

#1: Shenzhou 5 carried one astronaut into space for 21 hours
#2: Shenzhou 6 carried two astronauts into space for a 4-day mission
#3: Shenzhou 7 carried three astronauts into space for the nation’s first spacewalk despite the mission lasting only three days

So China did 4 unmanned Shenzhou flights before proceeding to manned. Is ISRO then cutting corners by saying it'll just be 2 unmanned flights first? Hopefully those 2 can allow all the necessary validation.

I hope it’s just two unmanned tests. The sooner ISRO proves its manned spacecraft uncrewed, the sooner they can start launching their own astronauts.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/17/2018 10:23 am
So China did 4 unmanned Shenzhou flights before proceeding to manned. Is ISRO then cutting corners by saying it'll just be 2 unmanned flights first? Hopefully those 2 can allow all the necessary validation.

China experienced problems with the first flights of Shenzhou, which is why they had to do more development flights. India may experience the same problem as well.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/18/2018 07:23 am
Former ISRO chief G Madhavan Nair says that India should turn to the US and Russia for astronaut training expertise:

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2018/aug/16/india-should-take-american-or-russian-help-for-manned-mission-madhavan-nair-1858634.html

Quote
"The basic design for the space capsule is for carrying three people. GSLV-Mk III has got a capacity to carry such a module," Nair said.

"Of course, we have to do a lot of things -- training of astronauts, use and make life support systems among many others. All this is new development, and it's a very challenging job," he added.

"We may have to depend on some friendly countries like Russia and America for the initial mission", he said.

"Life support system and conditioning of astronauts for the space environment is one of the key technological challenges," Nair said.

The overall reliability of the launch vehicle needs to be improved.

"Necessary improvement in launch systems and satellite technologies is called for," he said.


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/18/2018 09:30 am
BBC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cTMWfBJgow
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanjaykumar on 08/18/2018 03:38 pm
New Delhi: An Indian astronaut, be it a man or a woman, will go on a space odyssey by 2022 on board ‘Gaganyaan’, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said in his Independence Day address here.

He said when India celebrates 75th year of Independence in 2022, “and if possible even before, an Indian son or daughter” will undertake a manned space mission on board ‘Gaganyaan’ “carrying the national flag”. Chandrayaan-1 was India’s first lunar probe.

It was launched by the Indian Space Research Organisation in October 2008 and operated until August 2009. Mangalyaan is another Indian space project. The Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM), also called Mangalyaan, is a space probe orbiting Mars since September 24, 2014.

https://www.livemint.com/Politics/glFe56EP0V2EkF25mQshXO/Narendra-Modi-announces-Gaganyaan-in-Independence-Day-speech.html (https://www.livemint.com/Politics/glFe56EP0V2EkF25mQshXO/Narendra-Modi-announces-Gaganyaan-in-Independence-Day-speech.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanjaykumar on 08/18/2018 03:48 pm
BBC:

BBC Same old store - money can spent else were - poor country - nonsense.  Pallava's response about Vijay Mally's in London with billions of stolen money shut BBC - perhaps for ever. HiHi...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cTMWfBJgow
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/18/2018 09:03 pm
If the US and Russia are agreeable to making their facilities available to India for astronaut training, then which facilities would these be?

What would the duration of such training be?

What are the activities that one undergoes for astronaut training?
Are there different levels of astronaut training?
Are there different branches of training for different specializations?
What kinds of specialized hardware are required?
What is an appropriate number of candidates to train?
How frequently are such training facilities used to train people?
Are they generally operating at some sizable fraction of their capacity?
Are they open to members of the public to try? (eg. space enthusiasts, or corporate team-building events, etc)
What kinds of health conditions do they have to screen for?


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/18/2018 11:48 pm
VR Lalithambika, the woman who will lead India's human space flight programme (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/scientist-vr-lalithambika-will-lead-isros-human-space-flight-programme/articleshow/65450174.cms)

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Lalithambika V.R., a scientist who has played a role in building India's rocket programme has been selected to lead the country's Human Space Flight Programme. Isro chairman K Sivan has picked Lalithambika, who has won the Astronautical Society of India for excellence award in launch vehicle technology, to spearhead the programme to make India the fourth country launch a human in space.

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Since 2004, when the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) first prepared a plan for human spaceflight, the agency has been developing technologies that are building blocks for such a mission. The most crucial is that of a crew module, a capsule that can carry humans and which Isro has successfully demonstrated by having a prototype re-enter the earth's atmosphere withstanding the thermal heat caused by friction. In July, it demonstrated the pad abort test (PAT), or the crew module ejecting from the rocket in case of a failure.

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Lalithambika's task would be to ensure that these technologies are built as systems and tested. She also has the task of involving the private industry, collaborate with the academia, the Indian Air Force, DRDO and foreign institutions for the mission.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/20/2018 09:22 am
India's future astronaut training centre to be on outskirts of Bengaluru:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/bengaluru-to-host-centre-to-train-astronauts/articleshow/65466349.cms

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BENGALURU: India’s future astronauts training facility, plans for which have been on the drawing board since 2008-09 awaiting official clearance of the Human Spaceflight Programme (HSP), will finally be realised on a land located about eight to ten kilometres from the Kempegowda International Airport (KIA) on the outskirts of Bengaluru city, as per current plans.

The facility, likely to be named Astronaut Training and Biomedical Engineering Centre, will be developed on the land owned by the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) around its guest house in Devanahalli (Bengaluru Rural) and is expected to resemble the one in Russia where cosmonauts or astronauts from around the world undergo training. The centre is likely to be spread across 40-50 acres.

However, the astronauts—Gaganauts as Prime Minister Narendra Modi said in his speech—selected for India’s first human space mission will be undergoing training either in Russia or the US given the tight schedule.

On the plans for the training centre in Devanahalli, Isro Chairman Sivan K told TOI: “Yes, but that will be for future missions, as it won’t be possible to train astronauts for the present mission at our facility given the tight schedule. So we will be training them at a foreign facility, and subsequently, for future missions, we will have our own here.”

To be built in collaboration with the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) Institute of Aviation Medicine (IAM), located on Old Airport Road here, the astronauts facility will help prepare personnel for future manned missions in recovery and rescue operations, study of radiation environment and the long journey across space through water simulation.

The centre will also be equipped to train astronauts on surviving in zero gravity environments, something that most challenging according to Rakesh Sharma, the first Indian astronaut who went to space on a Soviet mission in 1984.

Aside of this, the centre will host a variety of chambers meant for thermal cycling and radiation regulation and also have centrifugals to train the astronauts on acceleration aspects when their module or vehicle is in space.

“The water simulators will be like swimming pools. Astronauts will go underneath the water and learn to live in zero gravity situations,” one source had told this reporter earlier.

A senior official at the IAM told TOI that the institute has the ability to develop the astronaut training centre without any outside help, and that when the ball is set rolling, there will be enough resources dedicated for the project.

Selection for Mission 2022

The first task at hand for the IAM so far as the human space mission goes, is the selection of ‘Gaganauts’ for the 2022 mission, several tests for which has already been conceptualised and developed at the institute, which already has a centrifugal system used to train pilots to handle G-force.

“There is an elaborate process and we also have all the simulators needed to select astronauts. The process had began as early as 2009 and we have developed these systems by 2011-12, but the project was not cleared then. Now, at least two of the simulators are ready to be used straight away while a few more would need minimal enhancements which will not take more than two-three weeks once we get the word,” the official said.

Typically, the IAM would need anywhere between six months to a year to select the final few to go on India’s maiden human space mission, following which their training will start which is also likely to take a few months.

“Initially, it took both Russia and the US one year to select their astronauts, subsequently the US now has a process where it can pick them in six months. We’ll need more than six months, but not more than a year,” the official said.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/22/2018 02:03 am
Human Spaceflight director; Astronaut program

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB7A5kZT0Tw
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: SciNews on 08/22/2018 09:08 am
BBC News: Is India ready to send someone to space? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-45243908
Quote
There are many reasons why they believe it can be done.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/23/2018 02:00 pm
The Space Review has put up an informative article by Dr Ajay Lele on how India's Human Spaceflight Program got to this current juncture:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3553/1
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/25/2018 02:07 pm
https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/whats-next-for-indias-new-space-ambitions/

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...

Amid the focus on the details and future prospects, it is important to keep in mind that India’s human space mission is important for a few different reasons. For one, in terms of space technology, this is the obvious next step. India cannot afford not to develop the technological capacity for manned space flight because that will represent a major drawback in Indian space capabilities. Even if the direct benefits of such advancement may not be as great in the short-term, this is a necessary longer-term investment.

Second, there is a competitive aspect to space advancement that is important too. While India was able to develop its own space program so far without reference to others, space is increasingly an arena of competition. India’s quest to undertake human space flight and its earlier Moon and Mars missions are also important in the context of global governance of outer space. These missions prove the growing sophistication of India’s space program and ensures a seat at the high table of global governance of outer space. This is a significant objective too.

Of course, there is a national security aspect too. India is concerned about the budding arms race in outer space and the emerging trends in weaponizing outer space. India will want to ensure that it has the technological capacity if the current trends continue, and manned missions is one possible aspect of this.

Finally, though there is substantial public support for the space program, these kinds of spectacular operations will ensure continued enthusiasm for a vital Indian technology success story. When there are large demands on the national exchequer from various sections, it is necessary to ensure that such support continues. As a corollary, such missions will also help in motivating India’s youth to focus on space and science, which is an example of the inter-generational impact of this initiative that cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/26/2018 07:01 am
The Space Review has put up an informative article by Dr Ajay Lele on how India's Human Spaceflight Program got to this current juncture:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3553/1

The article mentions that Indian manned spaceflight might arrive too late to allow significant participation in the ISS, if at all, since ISS is due to be decommissioned in the mid-2020s.

Is it possible that ISRO might still be able to participate in the Lunar Orbital Gateway instead? Because if India were to ever undertake a manned lunar mission down the road, then the Lunar Orbital Gateway could make this a lot easier.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/27/2018 05:56 am
Isro will complete Gaganyaan mission as per schedule: Raghavan


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-will-complete-gaganyaan-mission-as-per-schedule-raghavan/articleshow/65554520.cms

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NEW DELHI: The Indian Space Research Organisation will complete its first manned space mission on schedule as the programme was finalised a few years ago, K Vijay Raghavan, principal scientific advisor to the government of India, has stressed.

"This mission is not happening out of the blue, nor is it a coincidence. We were giving shape to this mission for a while," Raghavan told PTI-Bhasha in an interview.

...

He, however, acknowledged that the project is a challenge, but added India has the knowledge and expertise required to successfully complete this mission.

Asked about scientists advising the government to take help from countries such as the US and Russia for 'Gaganyaan' mission, he said the nature of science and technology is of collaboration.

"Russia and the US are leaders in space and science and technology. Discussions with them are natural," he said.

...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/28/2018 07:09 am
How ISRO is gearing up for the human space flight mission (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/how-isro-is-gearing-up-for-the-human-space-flight-mission/articleshow/65544269.cms)

Quote
The organisation, with 17,000 employees of which 12,000 are scientists, is gearing up for the mission. Sivan speaks to ET about the ambitious mission and what India will gain from it. Edited excerpts:

On the importance of a human space mission
The mission is not just about sending a man to space. It will provide us opportunities to explore new technologies. New science will emerge out of it. It will enhance our scientific and technological capabilities. It will be an inspiring new national project, which will not be confined to just the ISRO but will include other institutions also, including industry.

Quote
On the new capabilities this project will help build
This project will have many parts. Astronaut training is one. Some institutions will have to build capabilities on how to recover the astronauts safely from the sea, where they will land. We need to learn many things - like how to build a habitat module (in which astronauts will live and work), life support systems, space suits. It is not just an engineering pursuit but a big science project with a strong technological and biological component to it. This will be a national project that every Indian and India will feel proud about.

Quote
On the technological spin-offs of such projects
Most such projects bring in many technological spin-offs that one does not realise in the beginning. We developed lithium ion battery for our rockets and spacecraft. Now it is finding very good application in electric vehicles. We developed fire-resistant chemicals. They are critical - the chemicals protect the space vehicle from getting engulfed by fire, making it a fire-retardant vehicle. Such chemicals will be useful in the petroleum industry, safeguarding workers from the fire. A human space programme will involve many such technologies that will take our scientists to the next level.

Quote
On the critical steps to be taken for a human mission in 2022
Before sending humans to space, we will undertake two missions without humans. These two missions will be very important and will offer us a lot of learnings. We hope to undertake the two missions by 2020, and they will be six months apart. To keep humans safe inside the spaceship, environment control systems are being developed. We have already tested the crew escape system. The spaceship will see a lot of impact from micro-meteorites. We will have to develop systems that will protect it from this impact.

Quote
On the prime minister's surprise announcement
We were expecting the announcement to come someday. But it getting announced on August 15 was a big surprise.

On the project execution and the cost involved
I am confident that the project cost will be under "10,000 crore". We are now putting together a project management team. The system and the team leader have not been finalised. At this stage, it is very difficult to say how many people will be part of the project. But everybody here will contribute to make it a success.

Quote
On the challenges ahead
We have already crossed many milestones and surpassed many challenges. We have been working on the research and development and many difficult stages, like crew escape system, have already been crossed. We are not anticipating any further challenges. The question is now of good and smooth execution.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/28/2018 07:41 am
DRDO labs offer assistance for space mission (http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/280818/drdo-labs-offer-assistance-for-space-mission.html)

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As Indian space scientists race to fly a couple of Indians to space in four years, two DRDO labs - DEBEL (Defence Bioengineering and Electromedical Laboratory), Bengaluru, and DFRL (Defence Food Research Laboratory), Mysuru, could well chip in with space suits and foodstuff for the crew.

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For long, both these laboratories have been supporting the armed forces with DFRL even providing a variety of food packages to Wing Commander Rakesh Sharma (Retd) during his space journey onboard the Soviet Soyuz T-11 spacecraft in 1984. So, experts from these laboratories met the top brass at Isro and presented details of their capability to support the human space flight programme. "We have said we have the technology to make space suits and food for space missions and will make them once specifications are given to us," Dr Upendra Kumar Singh, head of both these labs, told this newspaper.

Quote
Dr Singh said DFRL has the expertise in developing food for the armed forces serving in extreme weather conditions and in the process of rolling out in-flight eatables for long endurance fighter. "Food should provide balanced nutrition for the health of those who will be chosen to work in space while being easy and safe to store and consumed under low gravity conditions. The packaging material used for space foods must be able to withstand extreme gravity conditions. So we will be able to play the role of a competent partner in the human space programme," he added.

Quote
All geared up
A formal announcement on all details of Gaganyaan, the human space mission, will be made in New Delhi on Tuesday by Jitendra Singh, MoS in the PMO, even as Isro chairman K. Sivan is set to meet Air Chief Marshal Birender Singh Dhanoa and formally seek the IAF's support for flying a couple of Indians to space by 2022. Dr Sivan said his organisation would bank on the IAF's support to a large extent to accomplish the mission
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chota on 08/28/2018 11:12 am
Gaganyaan Mission flight profile

>Note the CM splash down somewhere near Gujarat
>Crew module recovery within 15-20 mins
>Solar panels
>I3 member crew to stay for a period of 7 days

(https://i.imgur.com/wmks2wG.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dlq6htYXgAAasYu.jpg)

Photo Credits : ISRO, https://twitter.com/sidhant (https://twitter.com/sidhant), https://www.reddit.com/user/Ohsin (https://www.reddit.com/user/Ohsin)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/28/2018 05:40 pm
Gaganyaan Mission flight profile

...

>I3 member crew to stay for a period of 7 days

I think you meant to say 3-member crew, not 13?

So can anyone confirm - will it be 3 personnel traveling on the first manned flight? Or just 1?
(Somehow I'd thought it was just going to be 1, as per what the PM said in his Independence Day speech)

Edit/Lar: I read that as *I* 3 not *1* 3 so the I is just a stray letter typo
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/28/2018 07:40 pm
Gaganyaan Mission flight profile

...

>I3 member crew to stay for a period of 7 days

I think you meant to say 3-member crew, not 13?

So can anyone confirm - will it be 3 personnel traveling on the first manned flight? Or just 1?
(Somehow I'd thought it was just going to be 1, as per what the PM said in his Independence Day speech)

There is no ambiguity about the number of crews. It will be 3. Please read the content of the following Url.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/3-indians-will-reach-space-within-16-minutes-of-launch-isro-chairman/articleshow/65579117.cms

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/28/2018 07:43 pm
3 Indians will reach space within 16 minutes of launch: Isro chairman (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/3-indians-will-reach-space-within-16-minutes-of-launch-isro-chairman/articleshow/65579117.cms)

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Three Indians who will be chosen for the country's first human space flight programme "will reach space within 16 minutes of the launch from Sriharikota". They will spend "five to seven days in the low-earth orbit before the crew module makes a "splashdown in the Arabian Sea off the Gujarat coast", Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) chariman K Sivan said here on Tuesday. He said "Isro will certainly launch the Gaganyaan by 2022", the deadline set by PM Narendra Modi during his recent I-Day speech.

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Making a detailed presentation here, Sivan, accompanied by minister of state for atomic energy and space Jitendra Singh, said, "A crew module carrying three Indians will be attached with a service module. Together, these two modules will comprise the orbital module that will be integrated with an advanced GSLV Mk III rocket. The rocket will take the crew to the low-earth orbit (300-400 km) where they will perform micro-gravity and other scientific experiments for a week."

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For the return journey, Sivan said, "The orbital module will reorient itself. The crew and service modules will get separated at 120 km altitude. The crew module will apply aerobrake to reduce speed and parachutes will open just before the splashdown in the Arabian Sea off Gujarat. The return journey will take 36 minutes. In case of a technical problem, the module can land in the Bay of Bengal as a back-up." He said, "The module will be the size of a small cubicle (3.4 m diametre) with a mass of 7 tonnes."

Quote
On mission preparations, Sivan said, "Isro will conduct the first unmanned test-flight within 30 months. The second unmanned test in 36 months. Finally, the first human spaceflight in 40 months. Most of the critical technologies needed for the mission like crew escape system have already been developed."

On crew selection and training, Sivan said, "The spacesuit is ready. The crew members will be jointly selected by the IAF and Isro after which they will be trained for two-three years. We will send them to a training facility in Bengaluru. We are also consulting Rakesh Sharma (first Indian cosmonaut to go to space in 1984) for the mission." This programme will totally be an indigenous mission. However, we can send the selected crew for training abroad."

Quote
On the mission budget, Singh said, "Less than Rs 10,000 crore will be allocated for the mission. This money will be in addition to the annual budget of Rs 6,000 crore earmarked for Isro. This will be a cost-effective budget as the money allocated will be much less than what other countries had spent on the manned mission."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/28/2018 09:13 pm
There is no ambiguity about the number of crews. It will be 3. Please read the content of the following Url.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/3-indians-will-reach-space-within-16-minutes-of-launch-isro-chairman/articleshow/65579117.cms

So 3 passengers on the first go, eh? Doesn't that imply a higher confidence level in the technology?
(Hopefully it's not due to a lack of risk management)

Other countries have only risked a single life on their first spaceflights. Losing one person would be bad enough, but losing 3 would be even worse. Not trying to inject negativity or jinx anything - I just hope their decision is founded on the right reasons.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/28/2018 10:13 pm
Flight test of crew escape system - Technology Demonstrator Lift of video
https://www.isro.gov.in/flight-test-of-crew-escape-system-technology-demonstrator-lift-of-video
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/29/2018 02:11 am
Press conference held by ISRO Chairman Dr K Sivan and Jitendra Singh (Minister in charge of Dept of Space and Dept of Atomic Energy)

Mostly filler for the first 9 minutes - ISRO's Sivan begins talking @8:55

Slides @22:20 (unfortunately camera-person didn't bother to capture beyond the first slide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tKzsniG4k
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/29/2018 06:36 pm
This is getting confusing - maybe they need to put up an FAQ site for the media:

Isro sets December 2021 target for human mission; no decision on number of Gaganauts or days in space: Sivan

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-sets-december-2021-target-for-human-mission-no-decision-on-number-of-gaganauts-or-days-in-space-sivan/articleshow/65595528.cms

Quote
BENGALURU: Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) Chairman Sivan K, on Wednesday said that the space agency has set itself a target of December 2021 for the launch of the human spaceflight programme (HSP), which is more ambitious than the 2022 deadline set by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

We’ve set a target of December 2021 for the launch of HSP so that we have some margin in case there are glitches to still meet the prime minister’s deadline of 2022,” Sivan said. Before this, Isro will have to carry out a series of critical tests, including two unmanned missions—in December 2020 and June 2021—inflight abort test of the crew module among others.

The agency will also have to develop other technologies like crew support systems, the service module and even the orbital module for the project. Conceding to these, Sivan also said that no decision pertaining to the number of astronauts (Gaganauts), or the number of days they will spend in space had been taken by the space agency so far.

Answering a specific question on the project, he said: “We will have the capability of sending three people who can stay there for seven days. But whether or not we will send so many people for those number of days has not been taken. It will be taken later, closer to the mission date.

Given that this is the first time Isro is attempting to send humans to space, the number of Gaganauts and the number of days in space will be a minimum, keeping in mind the complexity of the mission and the tight schedule Isro is faced with.

Pvt Industry & Foreign Help

Pointing out that the HSP will require large scale infrastructure and other related systems to be put in place, Sivan urged the private industry to participate actively and work overnight to meet Modi’s deadline.

“The private sector will contribute in a major way. We need huge facilities like mission control, tracking, launchpad preparations and so on where industry must work continuously,” he said.

While reiterating that the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be responsible for selection of astronauts, Sivan, however, said: “Theoretically anybody can go to space, there will be no restrictions.”

He said that he has already had an informal discussion with the IAF and that formal discussions will begin once the project team has been selected. “Once the astronauts are selected they will need two to three years of training, for which we will take help from other countries,” Sivan said.

He said that it was wiser to take help from countries that have sent people into space not just in the training of astronauts, but even otherwise. “It is always wiser. It will help us prevent learning through trial-and-error and help us meet the tight schedule. We have countries with expertise, but who will help us in what will be worked out, keeping in mind the cost also,” he said.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 08/30/2018 05:31 am
Perhaps they should give official approval and allocate funds before demanding such tight deadlines. Until that happens all this is just talk by PM Modi.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 08/30/2018 10:58 am
I think ISRO should set up a new website node specifically devoted to the new Human Spaceflight Program. This can help coordinate the communication and maintain clarity and accuracy against any confusion, misunderstanding, etc. Members of the media and public could then have a convenient place to go to for all their informational needs regarding this new program.

ISRO could use the site to provide news and updates on the progress of activities and related developments, and generally show whether things are on track. This can help ISRO to manage expectations, so that we don't reach 2021 to suddenly hear that things aren't on schedule and the first manned flight has been delayed to 2027.

Here's ISRO's current site for perusal:

https://www.isro.gov.in/
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chota on 09/06/2018 02:21 pm
Ok, here are some pics from https://twitter.com/SpaceExpoIndia by https://twitter.com/writetake

Credit and copy rights with https://twitter.com/writetake


The Crew Escape System
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYhEVvWsAAECD8.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYisxwXgAEGJhO.jpg)

 

Crew Module
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYibHiXsAUTGOx.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYgtpFX0AETcs2.jpg)

Flight Suite
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYjIYEXoAI2a0R.jpg)

Crew Module + Service Module
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmYksPhWwAAdtn4.jpg:large)

Crew Seat
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmaesGPU0AITrcG.jpg)

Space Food (Glavcosmos)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmadEMfU8AA-tQ1.jpg)

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/07/2018 07:36 am
India, France set up working group for Gaganyaan (https://www.livemint.com/Science/FZ5IyubRy1BZp5xhVnoG8N/India-France-set-up-working-group-for-Gaganyaan.html)

Quote
India and France Thursday announced a working group for Gaganyaan, Indian Space Research Organisation's (ISRO) first manned space mission announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Independence Day. ISRO and CNES, the French space agency, will be combining their expertise in fields of space medicine, astronaut health monitoring, life support, radiation protection, space debris protection and personal hygiene systems, Gall said.

Quote
Engineering teams have already begun discussions and it is envisioned that infrastructure such as CADMOS centre for development of microgravity applications and space operations or the MEDES space clinic will be used for training of future Indian astronauts, as well as exchange of specialist personnel, Gall said.

ISRO plans to conduct experiments on microgravity through its astronauts. French-Indian space cooperation includes climate monitoring, with a fleet of joint satellites devoted to research and operational applications. The two countries also have plans to work on Mars, Venus and asteroids.

"CNES is especially proud to be working on this endeavour alongside ISRO to share the experience it has acquired from the first French human space flights to Thomas Pesquet's Proxima mission, and to hone our own expertise by learning from ISRO's innovative developments in the field of crew transport."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 09/12/2018 02:36 am
Interview with Dr Jitendra Singh, the minister in charge of the Department of Space:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5lq3-oCV4I
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: lucspace on 09/12/2018 01:59 pm
Some more backgrounds on the Gaganyaan programme: http://zeenews.india.com/photos/india/photo-gallery-know-all-about-gaganyaan-isros-mission-to-send-indian-astronaut-to-space-by-2022-2136815

I attach a cleaned up and enhanced version of the new Gaganyaan spacecraft drawing.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 09/14/2018 09:21 pm
Gaganyaan: Astronaut selection to take 12-14 months

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/gaganyaan-astronaut-selection-to-take-12-14-months/articleshow/65805399.cms

Quote
"Every aspect of an astronaut's life is unique. We'll require 12-14 months to select them and once selected they will be fit for at least 10 years. We wouldn't want to lose them after all the training and money spent."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 09/15/2018 12:18 am
Wish they would drop the "Ganganyaan". Chandrayaan, Mangalyaan we have had enough "yaans" maybe time for a new naming convention.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 09/15/2018 01:48 am
Haha - I don't know who started this "yaan" naming convention ("yaan" meaning "craft" or "vehicle")

Meanwhile, the rockets have a pretty sterile perfunctory naming convention - just straight acronyms like PSLV, GSLV, SSLV, etc.

I rather like the grand naming traditions of other space programs:

USA - Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Saturn, Delta, Atlas, etc
Russia - Soyuz, Mir, Buran, etc
ESA - Ariane, Vega, Hermes, etc
JAXA - Osumi, Akari, Hayabusa, Nozomi, etc

They all show tremendous imagination and inspired thought. India likewise needs to come up with more inspirational names - that too in its own small way helps to captivate public imagination and appeal. Bearing in mind that such names can get popularized and become household words, then more effort should be put into name selection.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 09/15/2018 05:39 am
I just saw a newscast that said the 2 unmanned flights leading up to the actual manned flight won't be using any sort of test animals, and that they will instead use instrumentation to validate that ECLSS is working properly in the capsule.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: plutogno on 09/15/2018 06:20 am
as reported in Nature: India’s surprise plan to send people to space by 2022
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06146-1
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 09/15/2018 09:48 pm
Former head of Institute of Aerospace Medicine says that India needs a sustainable human spaceflight program:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/gaganyaan-2010-gslv-failure-led-to-several-gaps/articleshow/65821662.cms

Quote
"It shouldn't become a one or two mission programme, we need to have a sustained human programme. The Chinese have set a goal to colonise Moon by 2030, the US will soon have people on Mars, and if India needs to have a say in future space policies and stake its claim rightfully, it cannot be left behind in any of these aspects and sending people to space is the way forward," he said.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/16/2018 07:11 am
IAF ready for space challenge, says Air chief (https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/iaf-ready-for-space-challenge-says-air-chief/article24949098.ece)

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The Indian Air Force and its arms are fully geared up for supporting the first Indian human space mission of 2022, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa said on Friday. Coming at a short notice, the Human Space Flight Programme or HSP is daunting and throws a different kind of challenge at the IAF, he said. "We have in-house capabilities at the Institute of Aerospace Medicine [IAM]; we have selected our cosmonauts in the past. IAM will play a key role in human engineering support and the development of the space crew capsule. It is fully geared up to whatever tasks it must do," Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa said at the institute's annual aerospace medicine conference.

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Selection of astronauts would take 12-14 months, according to IAM Commandant Air Commodore Anupam Agarwal. Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa said ISRO Chairman K.Sivan has discussed the project with him and the astronauts would be selected and trained at IAM and other places once the specific requirements of the flyers are finalised.

First Indian cosmonaut Rakesh Sharma who went of Soyuz T-11 in 1984 and fellow test pilot and back-up cosmonaut Ravish Malhotra were trained at the IAM and the then Soviet Union during 1982-84.

Quote
Air Commodore Agarwal said, "We have to choose astronauts trainees not just for today but also for the next ten years. After spending crores of rupees we cannot afford to lose them" for reasons of fitness. Pscychological strengthening would be an important part of their training - to stay calm, caring and alert while they worked in desolate and dangerous space. He said the challenge of Gaganyaan is bigger as we are the only nation that decided to send man to space first before experiment with animals - which Russia, the U.S., Europe and China did.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Zed_Noir on 09/16/2018 09:16 am
The following news report provides very valuable information about the India's Human Space Flight and the manrating of GSLV MK-III

ISRO tweaking rocket to make it safe for human space flight (https://indianexpress.com/article/india/isro-tweaking-rocket-to-make-it-safe-for-human-space-flight-5358494/)
<snip>
Quote
"When the GSLV Mk III was designed in the 2000-2002 time-frame, one of the important aspects addressed was that it must ultimately become a vehicle that takes a human to space. We were directed to keep the design conditions in such a way that acceleration, reliability, safety, vibration and other aspects are all addressed. This is why we are confidently speaking of a human space flight because all this is linked to the development of the GSLV Mk III," he said on Saturday.

"Once the D1 GSLV Mk III happened in 2017, we have become more and more confident that the human space flight is possible to achieve. The GSLV Mk III is an intelligent system with built-in redundacies but for a final human rating, the redundancies needed are of a higher order. We are working on it," Somanath said.
The GSLV Mk III is more or less the Titan 3E. Which make it not that great a choice as a man-rated launcher with the historic look back at the Titan family of launchers with large solid boosters.

It seems the Indian government is gambling on no major mishaps with the GSLV Mk III in order to send up Indian astronauts earlier without developing a more suitable launcher. Which will take the better part of a decade.

Time will tell if this was a wise decision.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: GClark on 09/16/2018 12:54 pm
123 Titan III/IV were launched.

2 were lost due to SRB failures.

Looks like pretty good odds to me...


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Zed_Noir on 09/16/2018 01:04 pm
123 Titan III/IV were launched.

2 were lost due to SRB failures.

Looks like pretty good odds to me...
And how many failures overall with those 123 launches?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: GClark on 09/16/2018 06:53 pm
Including those, five.

A further ten reached orbit but were left in the wrong orbit, there was a transtage explosion, etc.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: vineethgk on 09/21/2018 11:14 pm
ISRO intends to build Third Launch Pad at Sriharikota for the Gaganyaan HSF mission (https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/isro-setting-up-launch-pad-for-gaganyaan-mission/article25010147.ece?homepage=true)
Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is setting up a third launch pad at Sriharikota to undertake the Gaganyaan manned space flight programme, an ISRO official said on Friday.
Quote
“We have two launch pads currently, which are already full. A third launch pad is being set up for the human space flight. It will be ready in time for the mission,” a senior ISRO official said.
Quote
ISRO will use its GSLV Mk-III launch vehicle, which can carry the heavier payload of the Gaganyaan, and this will take off from the new launch pad.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 09/22/2018 08:12 pm
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/meet-the-woman-scientist-heading-indias-gaganyaan-project/articleshow/65917214.cms
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/23/2018 07:41 am
India's manned space mission 2022: Need pool of 30 potential astronauts (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/indias-manned-space-mission-2022-need-pool-of-30-potential-astronauts/articleshow/65918024.cms)

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One such institution, the Institute of Aerospace Medicine (IAM) under IAF, which evaluated tens of candidates before selecting Wing Commander (retd) Rakesh Sharma for his mission in 1984, will be responsible for astronaut selection as confirmed by Sivan.

Besides, Air Commodore Anupam Agarwal, Commandant, IAM, says they've offered help in four other crucial areas: Basic and some advance training; human engineering of the crew capsule and the habitat module; assessment of cabin air quality and the flight surgeon support.

For a 3-astronaut mission, we would need 30 candidates: Air Commodore Anupam Agarwal

Astronaut Selection

Quote
First things first, the astronaut selection. "...We'll need a pool of 30 aspirants, of whom, 15 will be picked and given basic training. If the plan is to send three, we'll shortlist three sets of three (nine) and let one set go about three months before the launch with the others remaining in the programme till launch date. This'll take about three months as we have to ensure we pick the best, whose physical condition is among the best in India and they also have the right mental make up. A fixed set of tests will be conducted before selection," Agarwal said.

After three months, a pool of potential astronauts will be selected who will then undergo a series of rigorous evaluation tests: How they deal with isolation; Can they handle physiological changes occurring during a spaceflight caused by extreme temperatures and otherwise; Disorientation and decision making and so on.

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Experts from all these fields will be roped in, while IAM will teach them medicine. "They'll need to take care of each other. They'll be trained in all basic first aid, and other aspects. Eye injuries are common in space and they can make astronauts critical, while there's something as simple as vomiting that can cause issues," he says.

Simulators & Human Engineering

Quote
For all this, IAM has a host of simulators: Systems that can simulate from - 20 degree centigrade to 60 degrees; dry flotation simulators that can simulate microgravity, and others like the "head down tilt" simulator for the same purpose. There is a simulator that can create pressure six times that of atmospheric pressure (60 meters depth of sea water) and pressure which levels like those found at one lakh feet, which is one of the definitions of beginning of space. The institute also boasts of a human centrifuge - not too many countries have this - which creates high G-forces. The disorientation simulation, which helps train in 13 llusions that create disorientation, will help in training with motion sickness desensitisation.

Flight Surgeon

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Agarwal said the flight surgeon support, a critical aspect of a spaceflight will be provided by IAM. "This is very crucial as each astronaut will have his own surgeon who will be with him from two years before the launch, during his stay at space and until he is recovered upon recovery," he said.

He said currently the only advanced training that the IAM cannot offer astronauts is that of the systems which need specific simulators - "but this can be developed," he says - and the complete parabolic flight training, for which India may have to look outside.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/23/2018 11:44 pm
Quote
On training astronauts abroad, Sivan said, "No decision has been taken yet. However, preliminary talks with France and Russia have been going on. The basic and initial training will be done at IAF's Institute of Aerospace Medicine in Bengaluru."

Source : 4 new satellites to provide fast internet speed by 2019: Isro chief (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/4-new-satellites-to-provide-fast-internet-speed-by-2019-isro-chief/articleshow/65925030.cms)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/24/2018 07:04 am
India seeks Russia's help for Gaganyaan mission to put man in space by 2022 (https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-seeks-russia-s-help-for-gaganyaan-mission-to-put-man-in-space-by-2022/story-gWcaQbUQUNxCoTam9RmvaJ.html)

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India has sought cooperation from Russia in specific areas of its manned space programme - life-support systems, crew modules and training of astronauts - to fulfil its mission of putting an Indian in space by 2022, according to officials familiar with the development. If successful, India will be the fourth country in the world to launch a manned space mission after Russia, the US and China.

Russia has been a close partner of India in space programmes for four decades, with the cooperation extending to lunar and Mars missions. The former Soviet Union helped launch India's first two satellites, Aryabhata and Bhaskara. In 2004, India and Russia signed two space-related agreements during Russian President Vladimir Putin's visit.

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The strengthening of cooperation in this field, including helping India for the manned space mission, came up during a meeting in Moscow between Union external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj and Russia's deputy prime minister for defence and space industry Yuriy Borisov about a week ago.

"The two sides discussed threadbare the space cooperation at that meeting and decided to strengthen their ties in the field of joint scientific research and use of outer space for peaceful purposes. In this context, particular discussion took place on the human space programme, including life support system, crew module and astronaut training," said a diplomat who asked not to be named.

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Soon after Modi's August 15 announcement, the chief of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) confirmed the timeline for the human space programme and said the pilots and the crew would spend at least seven days in space. "(The) PM has given the target of 2022, and it's our duty to meet it," Isro chief K Sivan said last month.

A second Indian space programme official said India has completed several technologies linked to the human space programme, on which it has been working since 2014, and Russian help would complement India's efforts. "We have credible prowess in this field. For example, we have creditably and credibly competed some technologies such as the escape system and crew module," the official said.

Quote
The manned mission is expected to cost Isro around $1.45 billion, according to the space agency. India has also lined up two unmanned expeditions before the human space programme takes off. Former Isro chairman G Madhavan Nair said, "We certainly have the capability to launch a human space mission by 2022." He said the 2022 target for a human space mission will be 'achievable' with Russia's help in a few areas.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 10/01/2018 06:11 am
Russia may train Indian astronauts at ISS (https://www.deccanherald.com/national/russia-may-train-indian-695417.html)

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Indian astronauts may get an opportunity to fly onboard a Russian shuttle to the International Space Station (ISS) for a hands-on training session before they crew the nation's first manned mission to the low earth orbit.

Moscow of late conveyed to New Delhi that it could take the crew of the 'Gaganyaan' - the proposed first manned space mission of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) - to the ISS for a real "out-of-the-world" training session. The details of the proposal are likely to be discussed when Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin will meet in New Delhi next Friday.

If New Delhi accepts Moscow's offer, it could relive a high point in India-Russia cooperation - Indian astronaut Rakesh Sharma's historic April 1984 flight on board the Soviet shuttle Soyuz T 11 to Salyut 7 space station.

Quote
A review of bilateral cooperation in space exploration and research, as well as the application of space technology, is likely to be high on the agenda of the summit between Prime Minister and Russian President. The two sides are likely to explore ways to expand cooperation in the field of the human space programme, particularly on life support system, crew module and training of astronauts sources aware of the agenda of the summit told the DH.

With the ISRO planning to launch the Gaganyaan by December 2021, the Roscosmos - the space agency of the government of Russian Federation offered to help train the crew of the first manned space mission of India. Moscow conveyed to New Delhi that the Roscosmos could arrange training for the ISRO astronauts, not only at its facilities in Russia, but also at the Russian Orbital Segment of the ISS, sources said in New Delhi.

Quote
The Roscosmos' offer to help train the ISRO astronauts in Russia as well as at the ISS was discussed when External Affairs Minister, Sushma Swaraj, and Russian Deputy Prime Minister, Yuri Borisov, met in Moscow on September 14 and co-chaired the meeting of the India-Russia Intergovernmental Commission on Trade, Economic, Scientific, Technical and Cultural Cooperation. It was also discussed when Dmitry Rogozin, the Director General of the Roscosmos, visited New Delhi on September 25. Rogozin met Modi's National Security Advisor Ajit Doval to discuss the issues related to bilateral space cooperation ahead of the summit between Prime Minister and Russian President.

Quote
New Delhi sought more details from Moscow about the proposal to train the ISRO astronauts at the ISS. "A decision could be taken only when we would know the expenses required for sending our astronauts to the ISS and whether we could afford it," said a source who asked not to be identified. "Russia is an old friend of India and we hope we can work it out with them."

Modi-Putin summit in New Delhi on October 5 is also likely to give both sides an opportunity to review and discuss the expansion of cooperation in advanced technologies in remote sensing of earth, ground stations for satellite navigation system and space solar power systems.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 10/04/2018 04:45 am
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/not-only-defence-putins-india-visit-to-boost-cooperation-in-space-energy-sectors-too/articleshow/66061470.cms

---by "indrani bagchi"

"On Friday, after formal delegation talks India and Russia are expected to sign a set of key pacts. While the defence agreement will hog the headlines, India and Russia are also expected to announce a new space cooperation mechanism. This was put in motion after Modi announced that India would send a man to the moon by 2022."


"Russia has also offered to train an Indian cosmonaut to travel to its portion of the International Space Station as part of the preparation for the manned moon travel."

---this lady who was given the responsibility to write the article, clearly is lacking knowledge of recent space activities.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 10/04/2018 09:12 pm
NASA astronaut Michael Barratt tells interviewer Pallava Bagla how astronauts' urine is reprocessed aboard a spacecraft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkb3QK0VOeM



Principal Scientific advisor to the Prime Minister's Office, Dr K VijayRaghavan answers questions on the Human Spaceflight Program:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7A32teTvhA
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 10/05/2018 02:03 pm
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/india-russia-sign-eight-pacts-after-modi-putin-summit/articleshow/66085306.cms

“A crucial MoU was signed between ISRO and the Federal Space Agency of Russia ‘ROSCOSMOS' on joint activities in the field of human spaceflight programme Gaganyaan”
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/07/2018 10:36 pm
Interviewer Pallava Bagla asks Russian Cosmonaut Mikhail Kornienko about the challenges of long duration missions in space:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9fePisknQ
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 11/08/2018 06:32 am
Isro lines up 3 rocket launches in two months (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/isro-lines-up-3-rocket-launches-in-two-months/articleshow/66538316.cms)

Quote
Isro chairman K Sivan said, "All three rockets and GSLV Mk II are almost ready." Preparations are also on for launch of Chandrayaan-2 and for the human space flight programme, he added.

Work is also progressing for Gaganyaan, an Indian crewed orbital spacecraft with a launch mass of 7,800kg. Various tests will be conducted including pad abort and launch abort tests as part of the human space project, the officials said.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: PonRam on 11/09/2018 12:19 pm
Interview with Rakesh Sharma.
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20181119-rakesh-sharma-our-first-space-man-1384895-2018-11-09
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Vikranth on 11/14/2018 01:35 pm
ISRO Chairman Dr.K.Shivan today in his post-launch briefing said that Gaganyaan's Unmanned Test will be conducted in Dec-2020.While,the First Manned Mission will be undertook in Dec-2021.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 11/18/2018 04:15 pm
Instead of constructing the third launch page meant for Indian Human Spaceflight Program, ISRO appears to have shelved the construction of the third launch page owing to paucity of time.

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Three years from now, India will be capable of taking humans into space. Works have already commenced at Sriharikota from where the human spacecraft will take-off. K Sivan, Chairman, Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), said launch pad works are being carried out parallel at Sriharikota alongside consultations with international space agencies and other governmental departments on selection of crew members.

"We are currently at the discussion stage. Meanwhile, suitable modifications have to be carried out to the launcher GSLV Mk-III vehicle to make it human rated," he said replying to a question at the post-launch press conference on Wednesday.

Quote
He said at least two unmanned flights using human rated vehicle will be carried out before Gaganyaan mission to assess various parameters. The first unmanned flight will take-off around December 2020. Initially, the plan was to construct a new launch pad for the human space flight, but Sivan told the Express that due to paucity of time, one of the two existing launch pads is being modified to meet the requirement.

Source : India's human space programme gets a fillip (http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2018/nov/15/indias-human-space-programme-gets-a-fillip-1898396.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 11/18/2018 08:20 pm
Instead of constructing the third launch page meant for Indian Human Spaceflight Program, ISRO appears to have shelved the construction of the third launch page owing to paucity of time.

Gee, that's too bad - I wonder how this will impact the overall launch schedule?

So will it hopefully eventually get built later on?

How will this impact the evolution of GSLV-Mk3 into the ULV?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/07/2018 12:06 pm
Summary of Memorandum-of-Understanding on joint activities between India and Russia for spaceflight research:

http://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1554954

Quote
Department of Space

Cabinet approves MoU between India and Russia on Joint Activities under Human Spaceflight Programme

Posted On: 06 DEC 2018 9:30PM by PIB Delhi

          The Union Cabinet chaired by Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has been apprised of Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between India and Russiaon Joint Activities under Human Spaceflight Programme. The MoU was signed on 15th October 2015 at New Delhi.

Major Impact:

          Signing of the MoU will strengthen the cooperation between India and Russia and would provide impetus to develop the technologies and advanced systems required for the human space flight programme like radiation shielding, life support systems, crew module, rendezvous and docking systems, space suit, training for astronauts etc.

Benefits:

          The MoU would lead to develop a joint activity in the field of application of space technologies for the benefit of humanity. It will lead to setting up of a Joint Working Group, which will further work out the plan of action including the time-frame and the means of implementing the provisions of this Agreement.

*****

AKT/SH

Detailed document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181006174026/http://www.mea.gov.in/Portal/LegalTreatiesDoc/RU15B2629.pdf


Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 12/11/2018 06:55 am
Hello, I don't intend to get political but I have not seen SPADEX there on cards even next year. Is ISRO cautious about changes in establishment too?
If there are chances that if UPA regime comes back to power, it will put human spaceflight program on hold again. After all, manned spaceflight was never a priority until PM intervened.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: srikanthr124 on 12/11/2018 11:46 am
Hello, I don't intend to get political but I have not seen SPADEX there on cards even next year. Is ISRO cautious about changes in establishment too?
If there are chances that if UPA regime comes back to power, it will put human spaceflight program on hold again. After all, manned spaceflight was never a priority until PM intervened.
Not exactly, human space flight program proposal was there from a long time and honorable Modi ji has given final extra push needed. And it is not a pure political decision So i think who ever in the power the program will continue...
In the past also no such programs of ISRO are canceled based on politics...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 12/11/2018 06:34 pm
If pm modi loses next general elections...there will be no human spaceflight till 2030’s...i am certain of it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 12/12/2018 07:27 am
Hello, I don't intend to get political but I have not seen SPADEX there on cards even next year. Is ISRO cautious about changes in establishment too?
If there are chances that if UPA regime comes back to power, it will put human spaceflight program on hold again. After all, manned spaceflight was never a priority until PM intervened.

That is simply not true. Human space program was proposed formally in 2006 under a UPA government. Initial approval and funding for HSP came in 2007 under a UPA government. BJP is simply taking credit for work for which the UPA laid the foundations.

Anyways isro tends to keep chugging along regardless of what government is in power so regardless of what happens in 2019 elections i do not think it will affect the national space program.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 12/12/2018 11:03 am
That is simply not true. Human space program was proposed formally in 2006 under a UPA government. Initial approval and funding for HSP came in 2007 under a UPA government. BJP is simply taking credit for work for which the UPA laid the foundations.
Look, I study ideologies of left & right wings & politics a lot so I'm not biased for or against any political party.
 I just judged on the basis actions after 2010 as manned space program was put on hold and BJP was reviving many projects in others sectors too according their own set of priorities.
 My views are entirely personal and I don't want to create any ruckssome political argument over here.
Regards
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Star One on 12/12/2018 12:23 pm
That is simply not true. Human space program was proposed formally in 2006 under a UPA government. Initial approval and funding for HSP came in 2007 under a UPA government. BJP is simply taking credit for work for which the UPA laid the foundations.
Look, I study ideologies of left & right wings & politics a lot so I'm not biased for or against any political party.
 I just judged on the basis actions after 2010 as manned space program was put on hold and BJP was reviving many projects in others sectors too according their own set of priorities.
 My views are entirely personal and I don't want to create any ruckssome political argument over here.
Regards

You say you don’t want to create a political argument, well in that case why post such a political comment in the first place?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 12/13/2018 03:27 am
You say you don’t want to create a political argument, well in that case why post such a political comment in the first place?
I just wanted to have an anticipation on IHSP if it's going to occur. Didn't thought that people will take sides. Anyways, leave it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/13/2018 09:59 am
Hello, I don't intend to get political but I have not seen SPADEX there on cards even next year. Is ISRO cautious about changes in establishment too?
If there are chances that if UPA regime comes back to power, it will put human spaceflight program on hold again. After all, manned spaceflight was never a priority until PM intervened.

That is simply not true. Human space program was proposed formally in 2006 under a UPA government. Initial approval and funding for HSP came in 2007 under a UPA government. BJP is simply taking credit for work for which the UPA laid the foundations.

I beg your pardon? It's ISRO which proposed human spaceflight, not the UPA govt. In what way did UPA lay the foundations for what ISRO proposed? Reflexive perfunctory approval of something is not the same as having a vision. The funding approved by UPA was only for low-level activity, whereas they could have and should have provided full-fledged support for a full-on human spaceflight effort - which they didn't.
 

Quote
Anyways isro tends to keep chugging along regardless of what government is in power so regardless of what happens in 2019 elections i do not think it will affect the national space program.

Human spaceflight was slowly chugging along, but wasn't going to reach the takeoff stage until the PMO gave it full backing, which has now been done. You can't just slowly chug yourself off the runway or the launch pad - you need that extra strong push to get aloft. Without the August 15 announcement, human spaceflight development would have just stayed under the radar without the full resource allocation that's required for it. Now that it's fully front and centre, it can progress as needed.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 12/13/2018 11:55 am
Come on guys, every establishment has its own priorities and reasons to justify it, leave it. We all are going to live well past 2022 to see what happens.
 I beg for apologies, won't ask such stupid things again.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 12/13/2018 02:30 pm
Quote
It's ISRO which proposed human spaceflight, not the UPA govt. In what way did UPA lay the foundations for what ISRO proposed? Reflexive perfunctory approval of something is not the same as having a vision. The funding approved by UPA was only for low-level activity, whereas they could have and should have provided full-fledged support for a full-on human spaceflight effort - which they didn't.

I should have been more clear in my initial post. When i said UPA laid foundations for HSP by that i meant:

- In 2007 preliminary development phase of HSP was approved by the then UPA government
- Preliminary development work included: Crew Module Development, Space suit development, Pad Abort Test and human rating of GSLV Mk-2/3 to carry humans
- Prototype crew module development was completed in 2014 with the successful launch of CARE module on GSLV Mk-3 X mission   
- Space suit development has been completed for several years now
- Pad Abort Test was successfully done in july 2018
- Human rating of GSLV Mk-3 is well underway with ISRO chief saying recently goal is 10-15 flights before human mission. Besides Mk-3 is also developed ground up for human space flight.

The development of all these technologies began way before BJP even came into the picture. As for your criticism why full funding was not provided all at once well one has to learn to walk before they can run. In 2007 no technology for human space flight existed in india. Developing the fundamental technologies is necessary before one can make decision as costly as whether to fund a human spaceflight program or not. As for the slow pace well keep in mind this was around the time of 2 back to back GSLV failures and at most 2-3 missions per year. It would make a lot of sense for isro to focus on more immediate programs rather than a human space flight program that may never happen.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/13/2018 09:30 pm
Work continues on the the Manned Space Program to be launched by 2022.

Quote
Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) director S Somnath told TOI on returning to Kerala after the PSLV-C43 launch from Sriharikota on Nov 30. He said, seven missions are lined up in 2019 and work is also on the human spaceflight mission Gaganyaan by 2021.

Quote
For the human spaceflight Program Gaganyaan as announced by the Prime Minister on August 15, he said work is on for launching the Indian crewed orbital spacecraft with a mass of 7,800 kg by 2020. Ahead of that two unmanned missions are planned with ground tests, reliability tests for a smooth landing and various tests will be done to ensure that its human-rated vehicle valid to carry humans in terms of safety in technology design.

Source : After PSLV-C43 success, Isro centres set for GSLV-MK II launch on December 19 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-pslv-c43-success-isro-centres-set-for-gslv-mk-ii-launch-on-dec-19/articleshow/67079961.cms)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 12/28/2018 10:26 am
Human spaceflight mission officially approved by the Union cabinet

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/cabinet-approves-rs-10000-crore-for-indias-human-spaceflight-programme/articleshow/67286623.cms?fbclid=IwAR1TioeKhDxmCtQ8Si7tWN086KXhu5MpPMzlRyY8Wb7Fgdam0ozWnVZC0B8
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: SciNews on 12/28/2018 02:24 pm
AFP: India to send three-person crew on landmark space mission
https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/india-send-three-person-crew-landmark-space-mission-doc-1bv2f72
Quote
India will send a three-member team into orbit for up to a week when it launches its first manned space mission expected in 2022, the government announced Friday.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: TrevorMonty on 12/29/2018 07:57 am
10,000 Crore is USD1.5B , unless I've missed a 0.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Tywin on 12/29/2018 11:09 am
China need 11 years of preparation for her manned programs, and more money... we will see if India can reach  that goal in only 4 years and 1.5 B$  :D
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/29/2018 01:20 pm
AFP: India to send three-person crew on landmark space mission
https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/india-send-three-person-crew-landmark-space-mission-doc-1bv2f72
Quote
India will send a three-member team into orbit for up to a week when it launches its first manned space mission expected in 2022, the government announced Friday.

So while they've said up to a week, it'd be nice to know how firm they are on flying 3 astronauts as opposed to just 1.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: SciNews on 12/29/2018 02:50 pm
Prime Minister of India: Boost to India’s Space Program
http://www.pmindia.gov.in/en/news_updates/boost-to-indias-space-program/
Quote
The Union Cabinet chaired by Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has approved the Gaganyaan Programme with demonstration of Indian Human Spaceflight capability to low earth orbit for a mission duration ranging from one orbital period to a maximum of seven days. A human rated GSLV Mk-lll will be used to carry the orbital module which will have necessary provisions for sustaining a 3-member crew for the duration of the mission.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/30/2018 01:11 am
10,000 Crore is USD1.5B , unless I've missed a 0.

Now that the money has finally been approved, ISRO now has the means to push forward and make stuff happen.

Hopefully this spending will have ripple effects that propagate onto other programs and give them a leg up too.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/30/2018 08:54 am
More details coming out

https://www.timesofindia.com/india/isro-to-build-3-sets-of-rockets-crew-modules-for-gaganyaan/articleshow/67306001.cms

Quote
Highlights
* Human-rating says the system is capable of safely transporting humans
* At least 50% of the Rs 10,000 crore will go into human-rating
* The escape system will boast of a recently included geometry, while work on parachute enlargement and new architecture will be ready soon

(https://opt.toiimg.com/recuperator/fetch?source=https%3A%2F%2Ftimesofindia.indiatimes.com%2Fphoto%2Fmsid-67306004%2F67306004.jpg+)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 12/31/2018 05:58 am
More illustrations of the Crew module internals shown by Times of India:

https://twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI/status/1079231031679434754

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvoy5kuUcAgDl6m.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvoy5xEU0AAXo3I.jpg)

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/31/2018 08:27 pm
NDTV channel questions whether it is worth sending Rs 10,000 Crore Gaganyaan Mission into space. ( Interview of former ISRO chairman G. Madhavan Nair and Air Marshal Pankaj Tyagi . Both of them supported the Gaganyaan Mission )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p19WlOsW6I8
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/31/2018 08:38 pm
Gaganyaan On Track, An Indian Will Be Sent To Space By 2022: ISRO Chief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCeGOHv58js
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 01/05/2019 11:44 am
Agra lab parachutes to bring back India astronauts (https://www.deccanherald.com/national/isro-drdo-agra-labs-make-711368.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/06/2019 03:53 am
ISRO chairman Dr K Sivan repeats Dec 2021 as target date for first crewed flight:

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/360-degree/060119/its-mission-2021-says-isro-chief.html

Quote
What’s at the top of your to-do list as the Union cabinet has approved Rs 10,000 crores for ‘Gaganyaan’ human space flight programme?

At our headquarters, we have put together 24 scientists and engineers drawn from all facilities of ISRO to review the design and systems of the crew module which will transport three Indians to outer space. The crew module will be designed for a three-member crew but we don’t know how many members will ride into outer space on D-day. This team will complete the design review by January 15, and then commence integration of all systems. We plan to fly the crew by December 2021, eight months ahead of the schedule announced by the Prime Minister. And to make sure that everything goes off without a glitch, we have planned two unmanned flights (empty crew capsule), one in December 2020, and the second in July 2021.


I'm hoping that by aiming for 2021, it will avoid slipping too far beyond 2022   ;)

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Zed_Noir on 01/06/2019 02:58 pm
For the local Indian folks. Since there is a possibility of the Congress party could regain power in the next general election before the first Indian human spaceflight.

Does the Congress party and its allies support a first Indian human spaceflight on the same schedule as PM Modi?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/06/2019 03:24 pm
For the local Indian folks. Since there is a possibility of the Congress party could regain power in the next general election before the first Indian human spaceflight.

Does the Congress party and its allies support a first Indian human spaceflight on the same schedule as PM Modi?

Typically, all the various Indian govts irrespective of party affiliation have given ISRO the funding they needed to carry out their work without political interference. Yes, Modi has taken it upon himself to announce the Gaganyaan mission and its deadline, but ISRO had for some time now been seeking govt sanction and associated funding to take things to fruition. So given that, and how front-and-centre this program now is in importance, it's not likely to be interfered with if the opposition comes to power. They'll probably downplay Modi's inaugural stamp on it, of course. Politically, an event like this (or series of them) would help to make any sitting govt look good, and give politicians a chance to make speeches of their own, etc. So nobody's going to look a gift-horse in the mouth and throw that away.

But yes, the Congress Party makes a point of mentioning that ISRO was set up during the tenure of Nehru, India's first prime minister and Congress party leader/founder. So that's their response to anyone from the current ruling party who tries to associate themselves with ISRO's achievements. The Congress Party like to credit themselves as being the progenitors of these institutions.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/10/2019 04:28 pm
India’s first human space flight likely to have woman on board:

https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/gaganyaan-indias-first-human-space-flight-likely-to-have-woman-on-board-5531075/
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/12/2019 05:35 am
ISRO appears to have set things in place with regard to India's first Human Space Flight Mission, by starting the Human Space Flight Center.

Quote
Gaganyaan, the great Indian human leap to space by 2022, will soon get cracking under a new Human Space Flight Centre and a dedicated team around five months after it was first unveiled. A team of 800 to 900 people is to be deployed over time to carry it out.Indian Space Research Organisation on Friday named Unnikrishnan Nair, who led its Advanced Space Transportation Programme at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, as the man to steer it - as also the director of the new centre.

Dr. Nair has already been involved in this work for a few years as director, Human Space Flight Project.
ISRO. R. Hutton, who has helmed the PSLV light lift vehicle programme, also from Thiruvananthapuram, is the project director in that set-up. K.Sivan, ISRO Chairman and Secretary, Department of Space announced the new set-up soon after forming it. A handful of deputy directors each for the centre and the project have also been picked.

Quote
"Gaganyaan is our highest priority now. We have put in a management structure to realise it. The Human Space Flight Centrebased in Bengaluru] will carry out all activities related to the human programme. Under it will function the Gaganyaan Project." Dr. Sivan explained, "All work related to the mission will formally begin now," including the schedule, blueprint of various tasks, astronaut selection with the Indian Air Force and systems based on the project report. He told The Hindu that the nodal Human Space Programme Office set up six months back under V.R.Lalithambika would continue to coordinate mission affairs at the headquarters here, Antariksh Bhavan.

ISRO has projected to the government a manpower requirement of 861 including 761 to be appointed in addition to the routine annual hirings. However, they would be recruited in stages. ISRO's own Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology, Thiruvananthapuram, which produces around 100 space engineers each year, will be a primary source of talent, said a senior official

Source : ISRO starts Human Space Flight centre (https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-announces-human-space-flight-centre/article25967944.ece)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/18/2019 03:53 am
New spacesuit design being showcased:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/made-in-vadodara-space-suit-to-be-used-in-gaganyaan/articleshow/67579315.cms

(https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/made-in-vadodara-space-suit-to-be-used-in-gaganyaan/articleshow//thumb/msid-67581908,imgsize-222428,width-400,resizemode-4/67581908.jpg)

Quote
Sure Safety, a Vadodara-based industrial safety equipment manufacturer has designed the suit from scratch after collaborating with Isro’s Space Applications Centre (SAC), Ahmedabad. The firm gave the first glimpse of the space suit at the Futuristic Technology Exhibition inaugurated on Thursday at the Science City. Nishith Dand, managing director of the firm, told TOI that trials for testing the material under lab conditions are almost over, including vacuum chambers tests. “Right from the communications, bio-sensors measuring body temperatures, oxygen and carbon-monoxide levels and to pressure management systems, all technology has been developed indigenously. We are the fourth company in the world to produce a suit for astronauts,” he said. Other feature of the suit are a flexible hood zipper, touch screen sensitive gloves, utility pockets, air diverters and light weight shoes. The space suit operates at temperature ranging from minus 40°C to 80°C.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 01/18/2019 03:58 am
Sorry if posted earlier:
ISRO Looks Beyond Manned Mission; Gaganyaan Aims to Include Women (http://'https://www.thequint.com/amp/story/voices%2Fopinion%2Fgaganyaan-isro-human-space-flight-men-women-gender-inclusive')
From above link:
Quote
For ISRO, Sending a Human to Space Isn’t The Only Goal
Quote
“We are not going to stop with launching humans into space. We are going to continue this programme in terms of a space station and sending a human to the moon,” the ISRO chairman has said. Incidentally, China has already started building a space station, and wants to send a Chinese to the moon.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/18/2019 04:20 am
As per media reports, ISRO plans to send humanoid robots in unmanned flights of Gaganyaan capsule as preparation for it's Human Spaceflight.

We can expect that to happen in mid-2020 and first Indian in space launched by ISRO before the end of 2021.

Head of ISRO- Mr. K. Sivan provided important information about the project that,
"the humanoid is almost ready"
"design (capsule and other systems) configuration to be frozen either this week or next (on priority) followed by material procurement and hardware testing"

https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isro-to-send-robots-first.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/before-humans-humanoids-to-do-experiments-in-space/articleshow/67580180.cms
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/18/2019 04:41 am
As per media reports, ISRO plans to send humanoid robots in unmanned flights of Gaganyaan capsule as preparation for it's Human Spaceflight.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/before-humans-humanoids-to-do-experiments-in-space/articleshow/67580180.cms

Regarding what Sivan said:

Quote
He said that Isro will fly the humanoid in both the unmanned flights planned before the actual human spaceflight mission. "Our robot will be like a human, and be able to do whatever a man can do, although not as extensively as humans. We want to show that even the first flight will not go empty and also ensure that we utilise the opportunity in the maximum way. We have our own humanoid model that will be used," he said.

What does that mean? Is it a crash-test dummy? Perhaps with embedded sensors?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/18/2019 05:09 am
I think it will not be a high tech machine like "Sophia", could be a crash test dummy like structure with some actuators mounted on it to do some basic mechanical operations (pressing buttons, moving things from a to b).
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/18/2019 06:19 am
I don't get what purpose would be served by actuating a crash-test dummy. When Blue Origin sent up New Shepard with a dummy inside ("Skywalker"), they didn't bother to equip it with actuators.

(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5a331a744aa6b5c7198b4f8c-960-534.png)

I wonder if ISRO's dummy would be wearing a spacesuit on the flight, like Skywalker did? At least then any sensors embedded in the dummy can be used to measure forces/loads through the spacesuit.

Also, most importantly - what name will be given to the dummy? (No politician jokes, please)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/18/2019 06:20 am
By reading this report, it appears to me that Gaganyaan mission is in full swing and ISRO will be able to conduct the Indian Manned Mission in due time. All this is attributed to the work initiated by ISRO since the tenure of former chairman G. Madhavan Nair. The fact that Robot type humanoid is ready and gaganyaan design will be frozen by next week implies that this manned mission is on schedule.

Quote
"We had set up 11 Concept Review Committees (CRC) with each CRC focusing on one or more sub-systems. All of them have completed their review and we've already had one meeting of the Integrated Committee meeting. The design is likely to be finalised and frozen either this week or next week, which will be followed by procurement, making of proto-models and tests" Sivan said.

Quote
The important CRCs are those that studied the Orbital module (crew and service module together), which is part of the mechanical systems and the ones on electrical systems, Navigation and Guidance Control systems, environmental control systems, crew escape system and human rating of launch.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/18/2019 08:33 am
AIR news (All India Radio) says that ISRO chairman Mr. K. Sivan confirms planned launch of two unmanned Gaganyaan test flights during Dec' 2020 and July' 2021 respectively before manned launch in Dec' 2021.

This info comes from a press conference held in New Delhi, so we can safely take it as an official word and not just casual mission update.

http://www.newsonair.com/Main-News-Details.aspx?id=358238
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/18/2019 01:45 pm
New info: Nothing yet decided on astronaut training in Russia or France.

(ISRO chairman press conference highlights

https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isro-chairman-press.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/19/2019 10:02 am
"ISRO could have launched Indians in space in 2015 but..."

As per former ISRO chairman Madhavan Nair, ISRO could have put Indians in LEO in 2015 if only the "Political factors" and ISRO "management" had shown more interest in the project.

Many ISRO engineers and managers felt being ready for this challenge since 2005 and started taking serious steps towards the project's progress.

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isro-could-have-launched.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/19/2019 04:33 pm
Indians on moon and mars, K.Sivan dares dreams big

Chairman of ISRO, Mr. K.Sivan dares to dream big. In an interview, he answered some questions with very ambitious space plans.

"Every country, not just government agencies but even private agencies are moving towards the presence of humans in space. Now we are talking about habitation in the moon, and Mars, these are all going to happen after some time and at the time we should not be blinking, now we have to put down fundamentals so we know how to adapt to conditions."

"We are noticing unexpected behavior of the sun, and these changes will have a direct impact on climate change. This is at the same time our natural resources are getting depleted and our protected mechanism are being disturbed by so many issues like pollution. The net effect is going to mean the earth is not going to be conducive for human habitation."

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-indians-on-moon-and-mars.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/20/2019 05:35 am
Astronauts on Gaganyaan likely to be pilots, hints ISRO (https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/astronauts-on-gaganyaan-likely-to-be-pilots-hints-isro/article26026698.ece)

Quote
The astronauts on the human space mission 'Gaganyaan' will mostly be pilots, hinted Indian Space Research Organisation scientists on Friday. "We are looking for people with sufficient flying experience," said an ISRO scientist requesting anonymity.

ISRO Chairman K Sivan said the Indian Air Force and other agencies will play a major role during the selection of astronauts for the human space mission project. Another scientist said the Defence Research and Development Organisation too will play a major role in this endeavour.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/20/2019 07:31 am
Suits from Vadodara, parachutes from Agra: Inside ISRO's plan to launch India's first astronauts (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/suits-from-vadodara-parachutes-from-agra-inside-isros-plan-to-launch-indias-first-astronauts/printarticle/67584640.cms)

Quote
Isro is building three sets of rockets, crew and service module. Each of these sets will be used for one of these three missions - two unmanned missions planned for December 2020 and June-July 2021, and the actual mission by December 2021 or early 2022. All systems for a space launch are designed with redundancies, but a human-rated mission needs a much higher degree of redundancy. The reliability targeted for human-rated launch vehicle is 0.99, which means only 1 out of 100 can be unreliable. For the crew escape system, Isro targeting greater than 0.998, that's almost 100 per cent, reliability.

Quote
IAF is getting ready to identify a pool of ace pilots who would undergo a battery of tests, including psychological assessments. The selection would be over by the end of this year. The Institute of Aerospace Medicine will play a critical role in the selection and training of astronauts which will involve the extensive use of simulators and the human centrifuge system.  India's indigenously developed astronaut crew escape suit will bear the 'Made in Vadodara' tag. The suit is 20 per cent lighter and one hundredth of the cost of its foreign counterparts. The astronaut crew escape suit will see the best of both American and Russian space suits.

Quote
When the three Indian astronauts return to the earth after spending a week in the space, they would use parachutes manufactured in Agra. The astronauts will be brought back to the earth by a pair of parachutes specially-made by Aerial Delivery Research and Development Establishment - one of the laboratories under the Defence Research and Development Organisation, according to a Deccan Herald report.

On their journey back to earth, the astronauts would first have to lower the Gaganyaan to a 120 km orbit, where the separation of crew module will take place. After separation, they will take about 36 minutes to descend. The splash-down would be at a place close to the Gujarat coast in the Arabian Sea. These parachutes will reduce the speed of the crew module from 216 mt per second to 11 mt per second on touchdown.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/20/2019 01:33 pm
The weird looking "sophia" rip off called "Rashmi" could be India's first robot astronaut in 2020.

Since ISRO already said that it will send "humanoid" first and not animal during Gaganyaan test flights, Rashmi could well be the one.

The news report says that two ISRO officials have "approached" the "amateur engineer" (who build Rashmi) and final decision will be taken at Isro headquarters in Bengaluru "following a review soon".

The amateur engineer Mr. Ranjeet Srivastava said a lot of cool things about his creation and few details about ISRO scientists "interviewing" the robot.

(Personally I think this is just a publicity stunt by him and ISRO would never send a "out of their/contractor's lab" hardware in this mission.)

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-this-could-be-indias-first.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 01/21/2019 02:12 am
'Gaganyaan likely to land off Gujarat coast near Veraval'

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gaganyaan-likely-to-land-off-gujarat-coast-near-veraval/articleshow/67617565.cms

Quote
"....We are going to put two or three persons in space before August 15, 2022, our 75th year of Independence. They will be in orbit for five to seven days and will land on Gujarat coast near Veraval," said Nilesh Desai, deputy director of the Space Applications Centre (SAC) at Isro in Ahmedabad.
...
On December 26, 2018, founding director of Indian Institute of Space Sciences and Technology Dr B N Suresh had presented Isro chairman K Sivan’s slides at anniversary general meeting of Indian National Science Academy (INSA) at Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory (PRL).

According to the slides, the splashdown of Gaganyaan’s crew capsule will be “off Gujarat coast”.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/21/2019 03:55 am
'Gaganyaan likely to land off Gujarat coast near Veraval'

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gaganyaan-likely-to-land-off-gujarat-coast-near-veraval/articleshow/67617565.cms

Quote
"....We are going to put two or three persons in space before August 15, 2022, our 75th year of Independence. They will be in orbit for five to seven days and will land on Gujarat coast near Veraval," said Nilesh Desai, deputy director of the Space Applications Centre (SAC) at Isro in Ahmedabad.
...
On December 26, 2018, founding director of Indian Institute of Space Sciences and Technology Dr B N Suresh had presented Isro chairman K Sivan’s slides at anniversary general meeting of Indian National Science Academy (INSA) at Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory (PRL).

According to the slides, the splashdown of Gaganyaan’s crew capsule will be “off Gujarat coast”.

for that splashdown location,

Advantage: political points for BJP party (will be in power in that state during gaganyaan missions) and current PM Modi (since he comes from Gujrat)

Drawback: very close to Pakistani waters. If re-entry parameters are only fractionally off target, this issue could become serious.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 01/21/2019 04:51 am
'Gaganyaan likely to land off Gujarat coast near Veraval'

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gaganyaan-likely-to-land-off-gujarat-coast-near-veraval/articleshow/67617565.cms

Quote
"....We are going to put two or three persons in space before August 15, 2022, our 75th year of Independence. They will be in orbit for five to seven days and will land on Gujarat coast near Veraval," said Nilesh Desai, deputy director of the Space Applications Centre (SAC) at Isro in Ahmedabad.
...
On December 26, 2018, founding director of Indian Institute of Space Sciences and Technology Dr B N Suresh had presented Isro chairman K Sivan’s slides at anniversary general meeting of Indian National Science Academy (INSA) at Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory (PRL).

According to the slides, the splashdown of Gaganyaan’s crew capsule will be “off Gujarat coast”.

for that splashdown location,

Advantage: political points for BJP party (will be in power in that state during gaganyaan missions) and current PM Modi (since he comes from Gujrat)

Drawback: very close to Pakistani waters. If re-entry parameters are only fractionally off target, this issue could become serious.

Splashdown near gujarat makes no sense not only from safety point of view but also but logical point of view. All tracking/human space flight infrastructure will be in south so the bay of bengal would be a more logical choice for splashdown zone.

As for the political angle i wish politicians would not turn this into a political football.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/21/2019 06:17 am
Here's the location of the Gujarat coast, for those (like myself) wondering where that was. The marker is on Veraval.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Veraval,+Gujarat,+India/@20.8943951,70.3938256,6z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x3bfd32308996ab5b:0xf285471b09bfa777!8m2!3d20.9158979!4d70.3628516
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/31/2019 03:36 am
News update: Bangaluru gets 'Human Spaceflight Centre'

ISRO unveiled its 'Human Spaceflight Centre' in Bengaluru on Wednesday;

Gaganyaan is the "highest priority" for ISRO in 2019;

former ISRO chairman K. Kasturirangan and K. Sivan, current chairman and Secretary, Department of Space inaugurated HSFC at ISRO HQ campus in Bengaluru;

a full scale model of Gaganyaan spacecraft was also unveiled;

HSFC's work: end to end mission planning, development of engineering systems, crew selection and training etc.;

S. Unnikrishnan Nair- Founder Director of HSFC
R. Hutton- Project Director of Gaganyaan

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-bangaluru-gets-human.html)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/08/2019 04:26 am
News update: IAM in Bengaluru to help Gaganyaan astronauts- but how?

Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/iam-health-helpline-for-gaganyaan-crew/articleshow/67891422.cms

IAF's Institute of Aerospace Medicine in Bengaluru is in talks with ISRO for providing "aerospace medicine support" to Gaganyaan crew.

Air Marshal Rajvir Singh, Director General, Medical Services (AIR) said that two meetings were held with ISRO regarding this issue. Nothing has been officially finalized yet.
Bipin Puri, Director General, Armed Forces Medical Services said, "the institute has played a crucial role in many aerospace missions, including long hours of flying of fighter aircraft in the past. Enhancing human performance and flight safety ***".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: https://idrw.org/institute-of-aerospace-medicine-in-talks-with-isro-to-provide-medical-support-to-gaganyaan/

Bipin Puri-"***ISRO wants to join hands with IAM to train the crew members***".

Rajvir Singh-"The complexities of life support in space are enormous. And IAM is the only centre in the country to contribute in this direction. We are currently in discussion with ISRO to provide full spectrum of life support to the crew members of the space mission"

As per the IAM website, the institute, earlier called Institute of Aviation Medicine, had provided medical support to the Indo-Soviet Manned Space Flight programme in 1980s.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions:

1. how exactly IAM is going to support?
providing only medicines and/or "performance enhancers"
conducting tests on candidates for issuing fitness certificate
helping ISRO design "life support system"
consultancy
complete training of astronauts with help of ISRO
2. what happened to earlier plans of sending crew to Russia/ France for such training?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/11/2019 12:08 am
ISRO tasks Indian Air Force to Train 10 Astronaut Candidates for Gaganyaan:


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-gives-iaf-task-to-train-10-astronauts-for-gaganyaan/articleshow/67931668.cms


Quote
NEW DELHI: Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) has finally tasked the Indian Air Force for selection and training of 10 crew members for the country’s first human spaceflight programme or Gaganyaan.

Talking to TOI, Isro chairman K Sivan said, “We have fixed all criteria and requirements for crew selection and training and submitted the same to the IAF. The air force has now been given the full task of selection and training of the crew. The first two levels of training of the crew will happen at the IAF’s Institute of Aerospace Medicine (Bengaluru) and the final phase of training will be abroad.”

On the number of crew, Sivan said, “We want IAF to train 10 candidates for the Gaganyaan mission. Out of them, we will pick final three for the maiden space journey.” On crew training abroad, the chairman said they have two-three countries like Russia and France in mind and but “no final call has been taken yet”.

IAM, which is affiliated to the Armed Forces Medical Services, is the only institute in India and South East Asia that conducts research in aerospace medicine. It conducts research in aerospace medicine and trains airmen and pilots. The institute, earlier called Institute of Aviation Medicine, had earlier provided medical support to the Indo-Soviet manned space flight programme in 1980s. “Since the infrastructure such as simulators at IAM is one of the best in the country, Isro wants to join hands with IAM to train the crew members of Gaganyaan mission,” said Bipin Puri, director general, Armed Forces Medical Services (AFMS), according to an agency report.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/15/2019 05:48 am
News Update: Can Modi become India's Kennedy?

(Pic: Indian PM Modi announcing Manned Space Mission 'Gaganyaan'-2018/ former US president J.F. Kennedy asserting Manned Moon Mission 'Apollo'-1962)

Source: https://www.financialexpress.com/opinion/gaganyaan-isro-should-learn-from-the-american-voyage-to-the-moon/1488081/

quote from the article...

..."Although the task (USA's Apollo Project) was extremely costly, taking this risk proved extremely successful for the US in the long run. This whole episode is a great lesson for the critiques of ISRO’s Gaganyaan mission. What they need to understand is that for India to become a formidable space power, it needs to take risks—much like what the US did in the 1960s—to reap the benefits afterwards."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/17/2019 06:12 am
Gaganyaan's review panel to meet in March (https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/gaganyaans-review-panel-to-meet-in-march/article26284287.ece)

Quote
A national review committee on Gaganyaan is slated to meet for the first time here on March 5 and 6 and comprehensively scan the contours of the first Indian human mission to space. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) wants to unveil the human mission's details to stakeholders from multiple agencies, and also keep the nation in the loop about the prestigious mission, K.Sivan, ISRO Chairman and Secretary, Department of Space, said. He added, "It should also give us the confidence that we are on the right track with such a humongous project."

Agreements and programmes planned with the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will start taking shape from now on, Dr. Sivan told The Hindu. "Gaganyaan-related activities are in full swing," he said, under the newly formed Human Space Flight Centre (HSFC) and a dedicated project team.

Quote
Gaganyaan is slated to take place at a ‘near-Earth' distance of 400 km. Before that, two unmanned trial flights with human-friendly capsules are to be flown in 2020, carrying a few micro-gravity experiments. "In order to have three flight-ready finalists as crew, we need to give astronaut training to at least ten [eligible] persons," he said.

The astronauts will be mainly trained at the IAF's Institute of Aerospace Medicine in Bengaluru. The area of Environment Control and Life Support Systems (ELCSS) is said to be the most important for making the capsule habitable for astronauts. The life sciences labs of the DRDO work in this area.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/18/2019 04:45 am
Gaganyaan's review panel to meet in March (https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/gaganyaans-review-panel-to-meet-in-march/article26284287.ece)

Quote
A national review committee on Gaganyaan is slated to meet for the first time here on March 5 and 6 and comprehensively scan the contours of the first Indian human mission to space. The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) wants to unveil the human mission's details to stakeholders from multiple agencies, and also keep the nation in the loop about the prestigious mission, K.Sivan, ISRO Chairman and Secretary, Department of Space, said. He added, "It should also give us the confidence that we are on the right track with such a humongous project."

Agreements and programmes planned with the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will start taking shape from now on, Dr. Sivan told The Hindu. "Gaganyaan-related activities are in full swing," he said, under the newly formed Human Space Flight Centre (HSFC) and a dedicated project team.

Quote
Gaganyaan is slated to take place at a ‘near-Earth' distance of 400 km. Before that, two unmanned trial flights with human-friendly capsules are to be flown in 2020, carrying a few micro-gravity experiments. "In order to have three flight-ready finalists as crew, we need to give astronaut training to at least ten [eligible] persons," he said.

The astronauts will be mainly trained at the IAF's Institute of Aerospace Medicine in Bengaluru. The area of Environment Control and Life Support Systems (ELCSS) is said to be the most important for making the capsule habitable for astronauts. The life sciences labs of the DRDO work in this area.

Life support hardware: so DRDO would be designing this (with ISRO) and produce it in their facility to integrate the same later with capsule...
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/19/2019 03:53 am
Source: https://idrw.org/isro-capable-of-completing-gaganyaan-by-2021-deadline-chairman-k-sivan/

"The Indian Space Research Organisation has recently had a discussion with representatives from various armed forces in the country to select astronauts. “The process (of selecting astronauts) is already on and an announcement for selection will be made soon,” said K Sivan, Chairman, ISRO, here{AERO INDIA 2019- Bengaluru} on Monday."
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Comet on 02/21/2019 12:33 pm
The timeline:
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Comet on 02/21/2019 12:34 pm
Gaganyaan mission profile
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Comet on 02/21/2019 12:37 pm
The spacecraft
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Comet on 02/21/2019 12:40 pm
Human rated launch vehicle - GSLV mk III derived
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 02/21/2019 01:02 pm
The timeline:
I guess Dec. 2020 launch was going to employ SCE-200
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/24/2019 02:03 am
Design changes may delay ISRO's manned space mission (http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/bengaluru/2019/feb/23/design-changes-may-delay-isros-manned-space-mission-1942466.html)

Quote
Even as the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is pushing for completion of the human space programme by the end of 2021, design changes required for the project might delay it further, say scientists at Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

DRDO is involved in developing a few products for ISRO for the programme. "While the initial proposal for India's programme involved only two astronauts, the recent announcement indicates that three people will be involved in the programme. In order to accommodate one more person, several design adjustments will have to be made to ensure the success of the programme," a DRDO scientist, under the condition of anonymity, said.

Quote
Another scientist added that one of the products of DRDO that will be used by ISRO will be the parachute for decelerating the crew module in which the astronauts will fly. "While the initial design of this was for two people inside the crew, now adjustments have to be made to ensure that the parachute is compatible with the new weight of the crew module. Several adjustments, such as increasing the diameters of the parachutes used or adding a new parachute, have to be made to ensure the crew module lands safely," said a senior scientist at DRDO.

Other agencies involved in the programme will also have to alter the models they had developed for the human space programme in the past, which might result in slight delays in the implementation of the programme and its first flight. However, ISRO is confident of completing the programme by 2021. ISRO chairman K Sivan had recently questioned why India couldn't complete the manned space mission by 2021 in the 21st century, while Russia (or undivided USSR) had executed the same in four years in 1957.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/24/2019 02:12 am
The timeline:
I guess Dec. 2020 launch was going to employ SCE-200

ISRO Chairman has recently clarified that the GSLV MK-III to be used for the Indian Human Spaceflight Program will not have the semi-cryogenic stage,

Quote
Sivan said, "The first test of the advanced version of Mk III will take place in December 2020. With upgrade in Mk III, we will also have to upgrade the launchpad facility at Sriharikota. We have therefore issued a tender notice recently inviting quotations for infrastructure upgrades at the second launchpad."

However, the chairman clarified the rocket with the semicryogenic stage won't be used for the Gaganyaan mission. The current GSLV Mk III with L110 stage will only be used for the manned mission with some modifications.

Source : Isro eyes kerosene to boost GSLV Mk III's lifting power to 6 ton (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-eyes-kerosene-to-boost-gslv-mk-iiis-lifting-power-to-6-trillion/articleshowprint/67716433.cms)

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/24/2019 04:23 am
Waitasec - the Dec 2020 test flight will use the kerolox engine, but the actual crewed flight will use existing hydrazine L110?

Shouldn't they just try to test the same launch stack all the way through, for man-rating purposes?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: russianhalo117 on 02/24/2019 07:17 pm
Waitasec - the Dec 2020 test flight will use the kerolox engine, but the actual crewed flight will use existing hydrazine L110?

Shouldn't they just try to test the same launch stack all the way through, for man-rating purposes?
Man rating certification might be the reason regarding the first manned flight.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/24/2019 08:38 pm
Man rating certification might be the reason regarding the first manned flight.

Sure, but it sounds like ISRO's doubling up or making use of HSF  budget to validate the semi-cryo booster. I guess they don't want to waste time on the semi-cryo development, or let it get side-tracked by Gaganyaan.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/24/2019 10:48 pm
Waitasec - the Dec 2020 test flight will use the kerolox engine, but the actual crewed flight will use existing hydrazine L110?

Shouldn't they just try to test the same launch stack all the way through, for man-rating purposes?

Isn't the statement made by ISRO chairman crystal clear that the advanced version of GSLV MK-III with the semi-cryogenic stage will not be used by the Gaganyaan Mission ? Because, by the time GSLV MK-III uses the semi-cryogenic stage, ISRO will not have enough time to test the advanced GSLV MK-III for the manned mission. According to me, GSLV MK-III needs at least another 5 successful launches ( apart from the 2 successful orbital mission, excluding the first sub-orbital missions ), before the first of the two unmanned mission being undertaken by ISRO.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 02/25/2019 12:20 am
Isn't the statement made by ISRO chairman crystal clear that the advanced version of GSLV MK-III with the semi-cryogenic stage will not be used by the Gaganyaan Mission ? Because, by the time GSLV MK-III uses the semi-cryogenic stage, ISRO will not have enough time to test the advanced GSLV MK-III for the manned mission. According to me, GSLV MK-III needs at least another 5 successful launches ( apart from the 2 successful orbital mission, excluding the first sub-orbital missions ), before the first of the two unmanned mission being undertaken by ISRO.

Yeah, I get that - but they're using one of the Gaganyaan test flights to validate the kerolox/semi-cryo engine - that was my point. Shouldn't the test flights be flying the exact same stack that will be used for the actual crewed flight?

Anyway, I guess the Gaganyaan budget is fat enough to come in handy for other programs which aren't unrelated in the longer run.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: TrevorMonty on 02/25/2019 12:27 am
Will capsule support ISS docking?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/25/2019 01:23 am
Well that doesn't give me much confidence in the whole plan at all - using a more or less completely new rocket (*) for no crew tests and then back to the old one with crew? Three flights within a year and 1st with crew in less than 2 years time?

Looking at how the US companies are doing (also China, which took more or less sacrifice their own spaceflight industry's other projects in the 1990s to get people in space), my guess is that the plan will ultimately slip by years - the whole plan just screams rushed to me. Throttle back the pace and get Indian astronauts to the ISS (can't see why not with their long term aerospace co-operation with so many of the ISS partners) in the next 2-3 years in the interim might be a better solution.🤔

(*) See Vulcan (or China's Long March 7, which started off as a Long March 2F with drop in kerosene engines replacements)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/25/2019 04:44 am
Design changes may delay ISRO's manned space mission (http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/bengaluru/2019/feb/23/design-changes-may-delay-isros-manned-space-mission-1942466.html)

Quote
Even as the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is pushing for completion of the human space programme by the end of 2021, design changes required for the project might delay it further, say scientists at Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

DRDO is involved in developing a few products for ISRO for the programme. "While the initial proposal for India's programme involved only two astronauts, the recent announcement indicates that three people will be involved in the programme. In order to accommodate one more person, several design adjustments will have to be made to ensure the success of the programme," a DRDO scientist, under the condition of anonymity, said.

Quote
Another scientist added that one of the products of DRDO that will be used by ISRO will be the parachute for decelerating the crew module in which the astronauts will fly. "While the initial design of this was for two people inside the crew, now adjustments have to be made to ensure that the parachute is compatible with the new weight of the crew module. Several adjustments, such as increasing the diameters of the parachutes used or adding a new parachute, have to be made to ensure the crew module lands safely," said a senior scientist at DRDO.

Other agencies involved in the programme will also have to alter the models they had developed for the human space programme in the past, which might result in slight delays in the implementation of the programme and its first flight. However, ISRO is confident of completing the programme by 2021. ISRO chairman K Sivan had recently questioned why India couldn't complete the manned space mission by 2021 in the 21st century, while Russia (or undivided USSR) had executed the same in four years in 1957.

is it just me or the statement by this DRDO official does not make any sense!

ISRO's human spaceflight program planning has been in process for more than a decade. They got funding for developing "basic technologies" for the same even before PM Modi's announcement last August. That is why we saw LVM/ CARE module suborbital flight test and PAD ABORT test before the announcement. I am sure that they were planning all of this considering a crew of three from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/02/2019 04:24 am
What age range should astronaut candidates for the Gaganyaan mission fall into?

36-year old Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman of IAF showed a lot of courage and calm presence of mind in a dire situation. I would like to see his name put forward to be an astronaut candidate for Gaganyaan.

(https://c.ndtvimg.com/2019-02/14u2fvug_wing-commander-abhinandan-varthaman_650x400_28_February_19.jpg)

Let's make this happen!

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1101677826082664448
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 03/05/2019 04:11 am
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/05/2019 05:59 am
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 03/05/2019 06:09 am
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.

Because the 2022 deadline for a orbital manned mission is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Taking into account the third launch pad with facilities for human spaceflight will only come online by 2023 and the funding shortfall (approx $2 billion allocated vs 2.8 billion requested) i dont think this program in its entirety will occur any earlier than 2023-2024.

Besides a successful suborbital manned mission will give isro confidence and validate a lot of the tech needed for a orbital mission later on. They could do something similar to the CARE mission in december 2014 but this time with humans onboard.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: seshagirib on 03/06/2019 08:00 am
IIRC, even USA went for sub orbital launches, prior to orbital launches,  mainly because they lacked a powerful enough booster at that time.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 03/07/2019 02:46 pm
IIRC, even USA went for sub orbital launches, prior to orbital launches,  mainly because they lacked a powerful enough booster at that time.

Alan Shepard and then John Glenn
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: Olaf on 03/09/2019 03:10 pm
https://www.newsnation.in/science-news/gaganyaan-project-us-interested-in-forming-working-group-with-india-former-nasa-chief-maj-gen-charles-frank-bolden-jr-isro-article-216429.html
Gaganyaan project: US interested in forming working group with India
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: TrevorMonty on 03/09/2019 03:56 pm
https://www.newsnation.in/science-news/gaganyaan-project-us-interested-in-forming-working-group-with-india-former-nasa-chief-maj-gen-charles-frank-bolden-jr-isro-article-216429.html
Gaganyaan project: US interested in forming working group with India
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.

Because the 2022 deadline for a orbital manned mission is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Taking into account the third launch pad with facilities for human spaceflight will only come online by 2023 and the funding shortfall (approx $2 billion allocated vs 2.8 billion requested) i dont think this program in its entirety will occur any earlier than 2023-2024.

Besides a successful suborbital manned mission will give isro confidence and validate a lot of the tech needed for a orbital mission later on. They could do something similar to the CARE mission in december 2014 but this time with humans onboard.
An unmanned orbital mission will achieve lot more than manned suborbital mission.
There is no race, best take the time and do it right first time.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: sanman on 04/08/2019 06:56 pm
NASA suspends HSF cooperation with ISRO, then quickly resumes cooperation:

https://spacenews.com/nasa-resumes-cooperation-with-isro-after-asat-test/



Quote
In a March 29 letter to K. Sivan, chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), Al Condes, NASA associate administrator for international and interagency relations, said that NASA was suspending its participation in a working group between the two agencies related to human spaceflight issues, two days after India announced it had intercepted one of its satellites with a ground-launched missile.

“It is NASA’s view that human spaceflight is simply incompatible with the purposeful creation of orbital debris generated by anti-satellite testing,” Condes wrote in the letter, provided to SpaceNews by NASA.

“Consequently, the Administrator has asked me to inform you that NASA is immediately suspending activities under the NASA-ISRO Human Space Flight Working Group until it receives assurances from ISRO that India will refrain from future anti-satellite tests that could have an impact on human space flight activities in low Earth orbit,” he wrote. Other areas of cooperation between the two agencies, he added, were unaffected by this decision.

Condes noted in the letter that NASA estimated that the risk to the International Space Station from small debris would increase by 44 percent “over background” over the next 10 days as a result of the test. That was the same increase cited by Bridenstine in an April 1 town hall session where he criticized the test.

“That is a terrible, terrible thing, to create an event that sends debris into an apogee that goes above the International Space Station,” he said at the town hall meeting, in the sharpest criticism of the ASAT test by any U.S. government official. “It’s unacceptable, and NASA needs to be very clear about what its impact to us is.”

However, in a follow-up letter to Sivan dated April 4, Bridenstine said that that cooperation involving that working group would resume. “As part of our partnership with you, we will continue to work on issues using the NASA-ISRO Human Space Flight Working Group,” he wrote, along with several other working groups involving scientific cooperation not mentioned in the earlier letter. “Based on guidance received from the White House, I look forward to continuing these groups in the future.”

(I guess NASA's Bridenstine was off-trajectory and needed a guidance correction)
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 04/11/2019 03:59 am
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 04/11/2019 05:18 am
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: abhishek on 04/11/2019 05:40 pm
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.

If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.

Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 04/11/2019 06:48 pm
I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.
Those projects too are in pipeline.

The "reinventing" term is irrelevant here as no one is giving you their invention. Human Spaceflight capabilities are a means of projection of technological prowess as well as paving way for various sectors of research.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: notsorandom on 04/15/2019 06:46 pm
I think isro should go for suborbital manned mission before a orbital one

Why? Russia and China went orbital on their first go.

Because the 2022 deadline for a orbital manned mission is highly unrealistic in my opinion. Taking into account the third launch pad with facilities for human spaceflight will only come online by 2023 and the funding shortfall (approx $2 billion allocated vs 2.8 billion requested) i dont think this program in its entirety will occur any earlier than 2023-2024.

Besides a successful suborbital manned mission will give isro confidence and validate a lot of the tech needed for a orbital mission later on. They could do something similar to the CARE mission in december 2014 but this time with humans onboard.
From a safety perspective an orbital mission would be better. If something goes wrong once the spacecraft is in space then there is plenty more time to work the problem. An example would be the CRS-2 Dragon. It's maneuvering system didn't power up correctly once it separated from the Falcon rocket. If that had been a suborbital mission it would be coming right back down before mission control could fix it.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: K210 on 04/15/2019 11:48 pm
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.

If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.

Quote
If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

Yes that is kind of the point. I worry that political pressure is forcing isro to cut corners just to hit the 2022 deadline.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: JH on 04/16/2019 03:31 am
If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

If Chandrayaan-2 is any indication, I imagine that news of delays will break very late, after the project has too much momentum to be cancelled.
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: HarmonicGF2 on 04/18/2019 04:02 pm
How many of folks here think that we will be able launch manned orbital mission before 15th August 2022.

Impossible!

Infrastructure will not be ready till 2023 at the earliest. August 2022 date was unrealistic to start with.

If delayed beyond 2022,the entire program will loose it's political relevance which was the main driving force behind it.

I just cannot understand why in the world is ISRO focusing on reinventing the wheel rather than on bettering it's launch capabilities or focusing on some exiting missions like missions to Jovian planets or asteroids.
Anything symbolic about the 2022 date?
Title: Re: Indian Human Spaceflight Program
Post by: A.K. on 04/19/2019 07:57 am
75 years of independence of India. May be if they do, they will set next target to land on Moon by 2047. Or may be something bigger if they do it earlier than 2047.