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SpaceX Mars / Re: Development of a Martian export economy
« Last post by hkultala on 03/18/2018 07:39 PM »
No mars land should be allowed to be owned by people who are not living in Mars.

Concentrating land ownage to "big land owners" who are not the same people than people who actually use and farm the land, has always been a major step in creating a dysthopy.
SpaceX General Section / Re: SpaceX and DSN
« Last post by guckyfan on 03/18/2018 07:39 PM »
Of course this won't be a DSN. It will be a Mars specific setup. The DSN can still do its function of connecting to all the deep space probes elsewhere.
SpaceX General Section / Re: SpaceX and DSN
« Last post by philw1776 on 03/18/2018 07:28 PM »
Let me make sure I understand the commentary above:

If you have satellites in orbit to relay the signal, there isn't a need for the large ground based antennas used by DSN?

That's the way I read it. And with laser communication to Mars, you don't have to worry about cloud cover. I would assume that the Mars relay satellite(s) would be in orbit somewhat above GEO and only require one or two satellites. Looking farther into the future I would expect 2 relay satellites in an orbit around the sun so communication would be uninterrupted when Earth and Mars were on opposite sides of the sun.

Musk has said that very thing when talking about communicating with Mars when one of the Earth-Mars pair is near to behind the sun in relative position.  Relay satellites in solar orbit.  Obvious that he has been thinking about the issue and problems.  Why wouldn't SpaceX set up their own high bandwidth (laser) Mars comm system? Probably one of the easier tasks supporting Mars exploration given the company's expanding skill sets.
SpaceX Missions Section / Re: Launch, Land, and Relaunch Party Thread
« Last post by nacnud on 03/18/2018 07:25 PM »
I really like 'Big Friendly Rocket'.  It sounds good and if they put a smiley face on it, that would be great.

The @ulalaunch #AtlasV booster for @NASAInSight's Mars mission was recently lifted to vertical in preparation for the first interplanetary launch from the west coast on May 5.
VAFB or Mordor?

The flaming umbilical and freshly-abandoned pad feel so dystopian. This was few seconds after liftoff during the #PAZ mission. @teslarati #SpaceX #Falcon9

                              Brian Webb
                  [email protected]

                                  2018 March 18 (Sunday) 11:46 PDT


   Date              (PST/PDT)              Vehicle          Pad/Silo
----------       -----------------       -------------       --------

MAR?             To be announced         Minuteman III       ---
Vehicle will fly a ballistic trajectory. Delayed from FEB 6-7

MAR 29           07:19:49                Falcon 9            SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Iridium Next commercial communications satellites
41-50. Liftoff occurs after sunrise, but the rocket's bright orange
flame could be visible for more than 100 miles.

NET APR 28       To be announced         Falcon 9            SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Iridium NEXT satellites 51-55 and the GRACE
Follow-On satellites

MAY 5            04:05-06:05             Atlas V             SLC-3E
Vehicle will launch the InSight spacecraft to Mars

SEP 12           05:46-08:20             Delta II            SLC-2W
Vehicle will launch the ICESat-2 spacecraft

The above schedule is a composite of unclassified information
approved for public release from government, industry, and other
sources. It represents the Editor's best effort to produce a schedule,
but may disagree with other sources. Details on military launches are
withheld until they are approved for public release. For official
information regarding Vandenberg AFB activities, go to

All launch dates and times are given in Pacific Time using a 24-hour
format similar to military time (midnight = 00:00, 1:00 p.m. = 13:00,
11:00 p.m. = 23:00, etc.).

The dates and times in this schedule may not agree with those on other
online launch schedules, including the official Vandenberg AFB
schedule because different sources were used, the information was
interpreted differently, and the schedules were updated at different

NET: No earlier than

PDT: Pacific Daylight Time

PST: Pacific Standard Time

SLC: Space Launch Complex


                           SECURITY POLICY

Launch Alert does not intentionally publish sensitive, potentially
sensitive, or inside information. All information comes from open
sources or is approved for public release.


Copyright 2018, Brian Webb. All rights reserved. No portion of this
newsletter may be used without identifying Launch Alert as the
source and providing a functioning hyperlink or text that point to
SpaceX Mars / Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Last post by Robotbeat on 03/18/2018 07:12 PM »
True, we'd need to know the cost of tunneling vs surface construction. I couldn't even hazard a guess at that.
Doubtless both will happen. Musk’s vision is that transport and industrial zones will be underground.
SpaceX Mars / Re: Elon The Boring Company
« Last post by nacnud on 03/18/2018 07:07 PM »
True, we'd need to know the cost of tunneling vs surface construction. I couldn't even hazard a guess at that.
Maybe it is just because it seems more tangible and easily visualized, but I can't stop thinking about the physical wealth that sits out in space, waiting for someone to tap into it. And by this I mean the quintillions of dollars of precious minerals inside asteroids.

One needs to consider that the wealth generating capabilities of precious metals is relative to their abundance. There is nothing "precious" about the metals themselves. They are precious only because they are so rare. If a large asteroid is discovered, say 20 kilometers in diameter, that is relatively easily gotten to that is solid platinum for example, as soon as a mining company begins to extract and deliver it to earth-bound consumers, the value of the metal will drop because it is no longer rare. Its availability will be limited only by the mining company's ability to extract and ship. It is entirely possible to flood the market with metals that were once rare, making them become relatively dirt cheap. It is for sure that the price per gram will quickly drop to become a more common price per kilogram, reflecting its drop in value due entirely to its new abundance.

That's the way it would develop in the free market. Of course it could also turn out to be like diamonds. Diamonds are available in great quantities but the market is tightly controlled by just a few individual mine owners who keep the rock at its "rare" status by limiting the amount of diamonds that are newly available each year. An asteroid miner could do the same thing I suppose, but then how would they recover the considerable cost of going there, mining, extracting and shipping just a small amount of the "precious" metal?
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