Analyst - 21/6/2007 5:01 AMNot sure that case can be extrapolated to any processing flow.
Would an Edwards landing really be a turnarround issue? Its a long time until December. Discovery landed in July 2006 (STS-121) and flew agian in December (STS-116).
MKremer - 21/6/2007 11:26 AM
Can't tell what movie they're watching in the ISS. Lots of fire and explosions, though.
Analyst - 21/6/2007 11:01 AMYes, but then Discovery landed at KSC! Last Edwards landing was STS-114 in August 2005.
Would an Edwards landing really be a turnarround issue? Its a long time until December. Discovery landed in July 2006 (STS-121) and flew agian in December (STS-116).
Analyst
DaveS - 21/6/2007 1:07 PM
Radiator cold soaking procedure started, where they try to trapp as much cold freon as possible since the radiators will not be available later.
Spiff - 21/6/2007 2:15 PMMaximum time the doors can be closed is around 8 hours. If opp 1 is waved off, doors remain closed. Doors will remain closed until they have run out of landing opps,QuoteDaveS - 21/6/2007 1:07 PM
Radiator cold soaking procedure started, where they try to trapp as much cold freon as possible since the radiators will not be available later.
Question:
How long before deorbit do the payload bay doors close? And how much time can the shuttle fly without the open payload bay?
IOW: If today's first deorbit opportunity is waved off, do the doors re-open? And tomorrow with a possible 4? Orbits with landing opportunities, are the doors closed during all that time?
Thanks in advance!
Spiff
HKS - 21/6/2007 2:19 PMAs far as I know, yes.
So if they land tomorow or on saturday. Will STS-117 be Atlantis' longest mission (so far)?
DaveS - 21/6/2007 2:20 PMQuoteHKS - 21/6/2007 2:19 PMAs far as I know, yes.
So if they land tomorow or on saturday. Will STS-117 be Atlantis' longest mission (so far)?
DaveS - 21/6/2007 2:18 PM
Maximum time the doors can be closed is around 8 hours. If opp 1 is waved off, doors remain closed. Doors will remain closed until they have run out of landing opps,
Spiff - 21/6/2007 2:41 PMNo. Usually 3 hours or so. Norm Knight will poll the Entry team for PLBD closure at 10:05 am EDT, with closure by the crew following shortly after the "GO" has been given.QuoteDaveS - 21/6/2007 2:18 PM
Maximum time the doors can be closed is around 8 hours. If opp 1 is waved off, doors remain closed. Doors will remain closed until they have run out of landing opps,
Thanks Dave!
So normal closing of the doors is shortly (< 1hour) before initial deorbit possibility?
HKS - 21/6/2007 7:41 AMQuoteDaveS - 21/6/2007 2:20 PMQuoteHKS - 21/6/2007 2:19 PMAs far as I know, yes.
So if they land tomorow or on saturday. Will STS-117 be Atlantis' longest mission (so far)?
Does anybody know which mission is the current record of Atlantis?
Jonesy STS - 21/6/2007 9:39 AM
Sky News used to be really good for Shuttle, now they are becoming uninformed idiots just like the BBC did.
Shuttle Heading For Earth Amid Heat Fears
Nasa 'Mistake' Over Shuttle Damage
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1271614,00.html
Did they even LISTEN to Shannon last night? When will these idiots get it right? Most of their articles are really badly written and with loads of spelling mistakes. I give up with them, really I do.
Jonesy STS - 21/6/2007 9:39 AM
Sky News used to be really good for Shuttle, now they are becoming uninformed idiots just like the BBC did.
Shuttle Heading For Earth Amid Heat Fears
Nasa 'Mistake' Over Shuttle Damage
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1271614,00.html
Did they even LISTEN to Shannon last night? When will these idiots get it right? Most of their articles are really badly written and with loads of spelling mistakes. I give up with them, really I do.
DaveS - 21/6/2007 9:52 AM
Houston wants RAD BYPASS and FES CHECKOUT delayed with 20 minutes to maximize the available water.
Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007 4:00 PM
Lindsey told to land his T-38 and fly in the STA.
whitewatcher - 21/6/2007 3:10 PM
Why? Because it is more comfortable?
whitewatcher - 21/6/2007 4:10 PMNo. The T-38 cannot simulate the orbiter's approach, which the STA can(hence Shuttle Training Aircraft).QuoteChris Bergin - 21/6/2007 4:00 PM
Lindsey told to land his T-38 and fly in the STA.
Why? Because it is more comfortable?
Flightstar - 21/6/2007 4:46 PMAnd that's a clear "NO-GO".
That view looks better than it actually is. It's raining here.
ShuttleDiscovery - 21/6/2007 5:04 PMIt's called a "wave-off". Holds only occur during the countdown.
So a 24 hour hold then?
ApolloLee - 21/6/2007 5:08 PM
Quick question... if we're waved off for the day, what will the shuttle's distance be from ISS tonight in terms of viewing opportunities?
mdmcgrory - 21/6/2007 5:26 PMFluid loading is only done at MCC's "GO". Not earlier.
So by this time would the crew have gone through "fluid loading?" I mean with the weather outlook so bleak, I don't think it's worth the inconvenience of 7 people all trying to use the toilet at the same time when they wave off that second landing opportunity.
DaveS - 21/6/2007 11:18 AM
New DOL PADs being sent to the crew.
haywoodfloyd - 21/6/2007 5:31 PMDOL = De-Orbit/LandingQuoteDaveS - 21/6/2007 11:18 AM
New DOL PADs being sent to the crew.
An expansion of all these acronym's would be appreciated.
Thank you.
joncz - 21/6/2007 11:29 AM
1 Fluid Loading:
2
3 The following is the prescription for fluid loading on entry day:
4
5 Crewmembers will initiate fluid loading no earlier than 1.5 hours before TIG, and no later
6 than TIG. Each crewmember will consume 8 ounces of water with two salt tablets or 8
7 ounces of other approved solution every 15 minutes. Fluid loading should be completed by
8 EI.
Edit: Added source, http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/news/columbia/107_onboard_archive/messages/msg237.pdf
haywoodfloyd - 21/6/2007 6:35 PMTime of IGnition and Entry Interface.
And TIG and EI stand for what?
DaveS - 21/6/2007 12:35 PMQuotehaywoodfloyd - 21/6/2007 6:35 PMTime of IGnition and Entry Interface.
And TIG and EI stand for what?
dabella - 21/6/2007 9:15 AM
Moving for the next one to come ;)
(if this isn't the place please delete)
Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007 12:17 PM
STA - Lindsey with more negative news:
"SLF -Tops in low teens out to west. Top on some at 10k with moisture in them. Descending to get bottoms.
"8k tops. Moisture and turbulence in them."
Rocket Ronnie - 21/6/2007 6:20 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 21/6/2007 12:17 PM
STA - Lindsey with more negative news:
"SLF -Tops in low teens out to west. Top on some at 10k with moisture in them. Descending to get bottoms.
"8k tops. Moisture and turbulence in them."
How are you managing to hear what he's saying. Do you have a link?
Ankle-bone12 - 21/6/2007 10:21 AM CNN said that landing at Edwards would cost an extra million$. is this true?
Yes (because of the extra cost of the 747 transporting the orbiter back to Florida). Plus a one week delay in getting back to KSC.
Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007 12:24 PM
Yes on the $1m to transport her back from Edwards.
STA: "Tops over field 12,500. Bases over field about 2600ft. Ceiling broken to overcast."
MKremer - 21/6/2007 1:25 PMExample: on STS-114, Discovery landed at Edwards on 9 August 2005. It didn't get back to KSC until 21 August 2005. (Not necessarily the record...)
A week if everything goes according to plan, with no delays (including weather there and along the return route).
Ford Mustang - 21/6/2007 12:35 PM
The last day to land is Sunday, but that is for a 'systems day', if anything were to happen. Should land tomorrow or Saturday for sure. Tomorrow adds Edwards as well as KSC. Not quite sure about White Sands for tomorrow..
Kel - 21/6/2007 1:37 PMQuoteFord Mustang - 21/6/2007 12:35 PM
The last day to land is Sunday, but that is for a 'systems day', if anything were to happen. Should land tomorrow or Saturday for sure. Tomorrow adds Edwards as well as KSC. Not quite sure about White Sands for tomorrow..
I thought they were only considering KSC Friday as well, with the other sites possible for Sat?
GW_Simulations - 21/6/2007 7:34 PMThey have enough consumables to stay in orbit until Sunday(EOM+3).
How much longer can it stay in orbit?
Kel - 21/6/2007 7:37 PMNope, EDW is going up tommorow.QuoteFord Mustang - 21/6/2007 12:35 PM
The last day to land is Sunday, but that is for a 'systems day', if anything were to happen. Should land tomorrow or Saturday for sure. Tomorrow adds Edwards as well as KSC. Not quite sure about White Sands for tomorrow..
I thought they were only considering KSC Friday as well, with the other sites possible for Sat?
Ankle-bone12 - 21/6/2007 1:21 PMThat's a rough ROM. It's at least that much. Pretty much flying out a lot of OPF rats and putting them in hotels and food for a week. I'm not sure it's valid to add their labor time in. It definitely costs a week of turnaround schedule. But the standing Shuttle army is on the payroll no matter what.
CNN said that landing at Edwards would cost an extra million$. is this true?
sts1canada - 21/6/2007 1:44 PMTo me, the key will be what the Saturday Edwards forecast is if/when they have to make a decision tomorrow on the first EDW rev. If it's the same as this week so far -- the winds on the second EDW rev are out of limits, then I think you're right and staying up until Saturday to see how KSC is won't be very attractive.
Both KSC and EDW will be up for landing support tomorrow, Friday, if Atlantis cannot make it home to KSC on her two opportunities tomorrow (she has a better chance on the first one to avoid developing showers and storms), I suspect she will land on her first opp. to Edwards tomorrow, the weather at KSC on Saturday is not much better than Friday's to try to keep her up for another day for a third chance to KSC after tomorrow's attempts.
Richard
Antares - 21/6/2007 7:44 PMQuoteAnkle-bone12 - 21/6/2007 1:21 PMThat's a rough ROM. It's at least that much. Pretty much flying out a lot of OPF rats and putting them in hotels and food for a week. I'm not sure it's valid to add their labor time in. It definitely costs a week of turnaround schedule. But the standing Shuttle army is on the payroll no matter what.
CNN said that landing at Edwards would cost an extra million$. is this true?
GW_Simulations - 21/6/2007 1:45 PM
If the weather is bad at all three landing sites, and they can't stay in space for another day, what would they do? Land at one of the TAL sites?
Ford Mustang - 21/6/2007 7:49 PMThey will NOT land today. They have backed out of the de-orbit configuration.
A friend just told me that she might try to land again tonight. I'm getting a no from some people, and a yes from others. CBS says they might try Edwards tonight.. Can anyone confirm something?
ApolloLee - 21/6/2007 1:48 PM
I assume KU will remain stowed, meaning no images today from Atlantis, correct?
andymw - 21/6/2007 7:53 PM
Can anyone tell me roughly when the first EDW landing opportunity might be 2moro. Looks like their best bet given the forecasts.
Ford Mustang - 21/6/2007 1:59 PM
Straight from NASA's shuttle page:
The first opportunity Friday is on Orbit 218 and calls for a deorbit burn at 1:14 p.m. The second is on Orbit 219, which calls for the deorbit burn to begin at 2:50 p.m. and landing to occur at 3:51 p.m. at Kennedy.
If Florida weather does not cooperate, two opportunities are available at Edwards. The first is on Orbit 220. The deorbit burn would occur at 4:19 p.m. and landing at 5:21 p.m. The final opportunity is one orbit later with the deorbit burn at 5:55 p.m. and the landing at 6:56 p.m.
^^
Just a heads up for those who'll ask.
Endeavour118 - 21/6/2007 2:06 PM
will white sands/ northup be active tomorrow?
Antares - 21/6/2007 12:44 PMQuoteAnkle-bone12 - 21/6/2007 1:21 PMThat's a rough ROM. It's at least that much. Pretty much flying out a lot of OPF rats and putting them in hotels and food for a week. I'm not sure it's valid to add their labor time in. It definitely costs a week of turnaround schedule. But the standing Shuttle army is on the payroll no matter what.
CNN said that landing at Edwards would cost an extra million$. is this true?
Unfortunately we are hoping against each other, I live in Ft Myers.
One thing is for certain. Either one of us could have told them they would be wasting their time this afternoon. Anyone who has ever lived in coastal Florida can tell you that between June and September, you set your watch by the storms. That is what makes us a sub-tropical climate as opposed to a desert. :cool:
I was a little disappointed though. I had the afternoon off today. I won't be that lucky tomorrow.
sts1canada - 21/6/2007 7:26 PM
The entry situation is changing like the weather, except for the orbital adjust burn info which I know is going to happen, disregard my previous deorbit speculation, in a couple of hours we will have an updated deorbit plan for Friday listed here on the site. (the actual deorbit times for each site will be calculated by MCC-H after this one minute orbit adjust burn occurs when Altantis' orbit is changed slightly, then we will know when to expect the deorbit attempts).
Richard
titanium_cranium - 21/6/2007 7:38 PM
Just hypothetically, my neighbor and I were discussing the landing of the shuttle, and he asked me, "If there is no way they are able to land the shuttle and they run out of time, what then?" I honestly couldn't think of a way that could really happen without an almost supernatural chain of events taking place. The only thing that really made sense to me was going back to the ISS, which can be re-supplied, and try to invent a way to get the shuttle back down to earth with a minimal amount of consumable fuel. That is really the only real way I could think of that happening, unless of course the shuttle can hook up a with a soyuz or a progress?
fauxpaw - 21/6/2007 2:36 PM
Is is possible that the orbital adjust burn will effect the viewing opportunity tonight? I've really enjoyed watching them move in tandem across the sky the past couple of nights.
sts1canada - 21/6/2007 2:12 PMIt sounds like this upcoming burn basically shifts the two EDW opportunities up one orbit (before it was 220&221, after the burn it would be 219&220), which could both be early enough in the day to get in before the winds go out of limits. That should make for a more favorable EDW forecast for tomorrow...
NO, the weather at EDW is good for the first opportunity for landing on Friday, the weather worsens slightly (stronger winds) for the second EDW opportunity, KSC has a chance of showers/t-storms forecast for both its opps. White Sands will not be called up unless EDW and KSC both are forecast to have bad weather for both of their opps., they want to land tomorrow, so I think EDW on the first EDW attempt is the way it is going to go right now.
Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007 8:01 PM
I'm checking. I know they have the ISS return in case of a problem with late inspection, but not afterwards (at least that is what I was told). Maybe they do, but obviously they don't make plaster it all over the information, as a return event would be a LON event.
Someone far better informed than me will clarify I'm sure. Not that this is remotely going to be the case with this mission of course.
Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007 3:41 PMQuotetitanium_cranium - 21/6/2007 7:38 PM
Just hypothetically, my neighbor and I were discussing the landing of the shuttle, and he asked me, "If there is no way they are able to land the shuttle and they run out of time, what then?" I honestly couldn't think of a way that could really happen without an almost supernatural chain of events taking place. The only thing that really made sense to me was going back to the ISS, which can be re-supplied, and try to invent a way to get the shuttle back down to earth with a minimal amount of consumable fuel. That is really the only real way I could think of that happening, unless of course the shuttle can hook up a with a soyuz or a progress?
Afraid they can't go back to the ISS now. That option is available for a while after undocking, but the seperation would be too much now I believe.
They can land. It would be really unheard of for them to not have all three options open during the final attempts, after that there are many overseas options (TAL - Transatlantic Abort sites etc. Even saw a PDF I think we put on L2 which showed literally hundreds of alternatives for Shuttle and Soyuz in a big time emergancy...like the very long runway at RAF Fairford in England), but - according to people in the know - that would be very, very unlikely to be required.
boltimuss - 21/6/2007 12:46 PM
So I am currently listening to NASA TV and there is not a lot of chatter. What do the astronauts really do once they have to wait a day? Take pictures? Play chess? Was just wondering....
~Bolt
boltimuss - 21/6/2007 8:46 PM
So I am currently listening to NASA TV and there is not a lot of chatter. What do the astronauts really do once they have to wait a day? Take pictures? Play chess? Was just wondering....
~Bolt
Endeavour118 - 21/6/2007 12:12 AMNot yet.
Do they have the latest ground track maps?
HKS - 21/6/2007 11:45 PM
Mission elapsed time is now 12 days and 23 hours.
This mission has surpased STS-98 as Atlantis' longest mission so far.
shuttlefan - 22/6/2007 12:58 AMNo. Stay with NASA TV and this site. It will be reported whenever the news comes in.
Have they decided whether or not to call up White Sands yet?
Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007 2:41 PM
Even saw a PDF I think we put on L2 which showed literally hundreds of alternatives for Shuttle and Soyuz in a big time emergancy...like the very long runway at RAF Fairford in England), but - according to people in the know - that would be very, very unlikely to be required.
marsguy - 21/6/2007 6:15 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 21/6/2007 2:41 PM
Even saw a PDF I think we put on L2 which showed literally hundreds of alternatives for Shuttle and Soyuz in a big time emergancy...like the very long runway at RAF Fairford in England), but - according to people in the know - that would be very, very unlikely to be required.
I think I've seen this list somewhere on the internet before, though I can't find it now. I do remember in particular that Wallops Island is on the list.
Anybody have the link it?
DaveS - 21/6/2007 7:01 PM
Just out of curiosity: Does anyone know which SCA is at Edwards? It seems for the last couple of missions, N905NA has been the SCA of choice for ferrying home the orbiter from Edwards.
mkirk - 21/6/2007 7:23 PM
What you are referring to is the Flight Data File Maps and Charts Book. Chris posted a copy at this link;
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3421&
The videos of the STA approaches to KSC and Whitesands that are posted in the L2 video section are from a CD that is controlled by this Maps and Charts Book.
Mark Kirkman
Andy USA - 21/6/2007 7:22 PM
What are these cryo tank heater calls they are getting about? Seems they are asked to switch some switches. What's this for and why can't it be done by Atlantis' computers or from the ground?
James Lowe1 - 21/6/2007 8:10 PM
Plan for tomorrow is a new thread, with this one staying open overnight.
If anyone sees NASA TV produce the same screenshots for the landing ops as seen in the opening post on this thread, please post them. Thanks.