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Robotic Spacecraft (Astronomy, Planetary, Earth, Solar/Heliophysics) => Space Science Coverage => Topic started by: FutureSpaceTourist on 12/23/2023 07:52 am

Title: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 12/23/2023 07:52 am
https://twitter.com/cnsawatcher/status/1738469749179171088

Quote
Tianwen-4, launching Sept 2029, will journey to Jupiter using Venus & Earth gravity assists. Targeting Jupiter capture by Dec 2035 & a Uranus flyby in March 2045, the mission includes 2 probes, one exploring Jupiter's system and another flying by Uranus. buff.ly/48ygw13
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: JulesVerneATV on 12/24/2023 06:41 am
This mission may have been formerly known as Gan De. A number of articles speculated China was going to try some kind of outer planets mission. This mission has been expected by some, the planetary society website and harvard had links to articles about a possible lander but I think it was called 'Gan De' not 'Tianwen-4' there was also speculation of a Jupiter mission that would double as a fly-by for Neptune or Uranus.  I'm not sure if 'Gan De' ever became a real mission if it got approved or cancelled or is this an evolution of the same mission.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230502203250/https://presentations.copernicus.org/EGU2020/EGU2020-20179_presentation.pdf

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020EGUGA..2220179B/abstract

This article in 2017 reported goals for a visit to 'Ganymede' and not 'Callisto' as reported by others

https://web.archive.org/web/20220101210610/https://findchina.info/mars-asteroids-ganymede-and-uranus-chinas-deep-space-exploration-plan-2030-and-beyond

Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: Don2 on 12/24/2023 10:09 am
The Chinese must be developing RTG technology to power the Uranus flyby probe.
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: skizzo on 01/12/2024 08:50 am
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: JulesVerneATV on 01/13/2024 02:34 pm
This planetary society article says plutonium-238 radioisotope thermoelectric generator were used on the Moon missions https://web.archive.org/web/20201112025516/https://www.planetary.org/articles/01091341-change-3-lunar-lander

Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: redliox on 01/14/2024 05:12 pm
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

I'd give them better than 50/50 chance on pulling it off.  The biggest hurdle might be developing a large enough rocket in time for the Jupiter-Uranus launch window, although it can't be denied they're progressing steadily.  I wouldn't mind seeing both the NASA/ESA Uranus Orbiter with Probe and a Chinese flyby happening at Uranus simultaneously.
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: skizzo on 01/15/2024 05:34 am
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

I'd give them better than 50/50 chance on pulling it off.  The biggest hurdle might be developing a large enough rocket in time for the Jupiter-Uranus launch window, although it can't be denied they're progressing steadily.  I wouldn't mind seeing both the NASA/ESA Uranus Orbiter with Probe and a Chinese flyby happening at Uranus simultaneously.

If I knew NASA was actually going through with the Uranus mission in the next decade, I would prefer China to do a Neptune/Triton flyby. But since there is no guarantee with NASA so far, I'm rooting for the chinese Uranus flyby to materialize
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: Timber Micka on 01/15/2024 08:21 am
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

I'd give them better than 50/50 chance on pulling it off.  The biggest hurdle might be developing a large enough rocket in time for the Jupiter-Uranus launch window, although it can't be denied they're progressing steadily.  I wouldn't mind seeing both the NASA/ESA Uranus Orbiter with Probe and a Chinese flyby happening at Uranus simultaneously.

Long March 5 is large enough. Like others HLVs such as Ariane and Delta IV Heavy it is perfectly capable of launching large probes to the outer planets via gravity assists. Cassini-Huygens was launched on the less powerful Titan IV.
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: woods170 on 01/15/2024 08:33 am
This planetary society article says plutonium-238 radioisotope thermoelectric generator were used on the Moon missions https://web.archive.org/web/20201112025516/https://www.planetary.org/articles/01091341-change-3-lunar-lander

China got the radionuclide heat units (UHR) parts of their lunar RTGs from Russia:
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/nn-russia-to-build-four-vver1200-units-in-china-08061802.html
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: woods170 on 01/15/2024 09:25 am
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

Nope.

NASA got there first, in january 1986 (Voyager 2 flyby of Uranus).

Seriously people, what the frack is what all the recent "China-wil-get-there-before-NASA/USA" scaremongering? China can't get somewhere "first" when the USA/NASA actually got there first decades earlier.
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: JulesVerneATV on 01/15/2024 12:48 pm
These Moons could have seas like Titan or show data somewhat similar to the evidence of subsurface water on Europa

Active Oceans?  a study led by the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory (APL)

one or two of Uranus’ 27 moons — Ariel and/or Miranda might have sub surface liquid
https://astrobiology.com/2023/03/two-of-uranus-moons-may-harbor-active-oceans-radiation-data-suggests-news-releases.html

with the Moon of Neptune scientists think may be a layer of liquid water deep inside Triton, forming a subterranean ocean

Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: skizzo on 01/15/2024 03:39 pm
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

Nope.

NASA got there first, in january 1986 (Voyager 2 flyby of Uranus).


Dont act like you dont know what I meant...
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: woods170 on 01/15/2024 07:46 pm
They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

Nope.

NASA got there first, in january 1986 (Voyager 2 flyby of Uranus).


Dont act like you dont know what I meant...

You said this:

They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA...

Which can't be done by the Chinese because NASA has already been there. A long time ago. Only people pushing the "China bad" narrative come up with "They'll probably get to Uranus before NASA". It's scaremongering 101. It is portraying that it is "bad" that China gets to Uranus before NASA can arrive there a second time.
You should be looking at it from the other side: China will probably get to Uranus second, 5+ decades after the USA got there first. Which means that China is running half a century behind the USA.
And when you look at it from that perspective, the "scare" is no longer there.
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: skizzo on 01/16/2024 04:14 pm
Im talking about in the future, considering there are 2 missions in the open right now to visit Uranus, this one by China, the other by NASA (UOP).

As for the rest of your rant, stop putting words in my mouth and extrapolating. Its not that serious.
Title: Re: Tianwen-4 : Jupiter & Uranus probes : Sep 2029
Post by: Don2 on 01/17/2024 03:41 am
This planetary society article says plutonium-238 radioisotope thermoelectric generator were used on the Moon missions https://web.archive.org/web/20201112025516/https://www.planetary.org/articles/01091341-change-3-lunar-lander

The planetary society article is incorrect. The moon missions used radioisotope heater units (RHUs), which are much smaller and simpler than radioisotope thermoelectric generators. It is possible that the RHUs were from Russia.

There is a real possibility that the Chinese will be the first mission to get to Uranus with modern CCD imaging. Voyager used vidicon tubes. Uranus is a lot more interesting in the near infrared. The rings are particularly spectacular. Even a brief fly-by with infra-red capable CCDs should get a lot of new results.