NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
General Discussion => Q&A Section => Topic started by: jcoate on 06/09/2022 09:49 pm
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How did launch providers work back in the earlier days of spaceflight? Before ULA, Roscosmos, Arianespace, etc. it does not seem as clear who those older counterparts were.
Were specific branches of the military in charge of certain rockets like Thor/Delta, Atlas, Vanguard, Juno, and Titan?
What capacity did NASA serve in this realm as well?
Finally, how did this slowly transform in the present-day launch providers?
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Era Rocket Contractor Customer
1953-1961* Redstone Chrysler Army
1954-1961* Jupiter Chrysler Army
1955-1962 Vanguard Martin Navy
1955-1980* Thor Douglas (MDAC) USAF
1954-1995* Atlas Covair (GD) USAF
1955-2003* Titan Martin USAF
1958-1965 Thor Able Douglas Aerojet USAF
1958-1972 Thor Agena Douglas (MDAC) Lockheed USAF/NRO
1960-1968 Atlas Agena GD Lockheed USAF/NASA
1969-1978 Atlas Agena GD Lockheed USAF/NRO
1964-1987 Titan Agena Martin Lockheed USAF/NRO
1965-1989 Titan IIIC/D Martin Lockheed USAF/NRO
1974-1977 Titan IIIE Martin GD USAF/NASA
1960-1989 Delta Douglas (MDAC) NASA
1962-1990 Atlas Centaur GD/Covair NASA
1989-2005 Titan IV Martin GD Boeing (Lockheed Martin) USAF/NRO
1989-2019 Delta II MDAC (Boeing, ULA) commerical
1990-2005 Atlas I, II, III GD (Lockheed Martin) commercial
1990-1992 Titan III Comm Martin Lockheed commercial
2002- ? Atlas V Lockheed Martin (ULA) commerical
2002-2024? Delta IV MDAC (Boeing, ULA) commercial
Commercial started after Challenger
I omitted one offs and lesser used configurations.
* These are weapon system testing and then vehicles converted to space launch
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Was there no commercial payloads flown on STS pre Challenger 51L?
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Was there no commercial payloads flown on STS pre Challenger 51L?
Commercial payloads were flown on Delta and Atlas before Challenger but NASA was managing the launch service and contracts for the customers. It was doing the same thing for commercial spacecraft on shuttle.
Commercial in the third column means the vehicle contractor now managed the launch service and the commercial spacecraft contracted them directly vs going through NASA. Before Challenger, NASA bought all the Delta and Atlas, and then was reimbursed by the commercial spacecraft.
Launch service commercialization meant the government was taken out the loop.
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Was there no commercial payloads flown on STS pre Challenger 51L?
Commercial payloads were flown on Delta and Atlas before Challenger but NASA was managing the launch service and contracts for the customers. It was doing the same thing for commercial spacecraft on shuttle.
And after Challenger the Shuttle stopped launching commercial satellites. (Unless you want to count STS-49 repairing Intelsat 603.)
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Another facet of the commercial launch era are the entities that were created for international ventures. These included International Launch Services (Atlas Centaur/Proton) and Sea Launch (Zenit 3SL). These were, I suppose, essentially sales forces that overlaid the actual launch providers.
Jim - was Lockheed really involved in Titan IIIC/D? Aerojet supplied propulsion for the Titan IIIC Transtage. UTC/CSD did the solid motors.
- Ed Kyle
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Another facet of the commercial launch era are the entities that were created for international ventures. These included International Launch Services (Atlas Centaur/Proton) and Sea Launch (Zenit 3SL). These were, I suppose, essentially sales forces that overlaid the actual launch providers.
Jim - was Lockheed really involved in Titan IIIC/D? Aerojet supplied propulsion for the Titan IIIC Transtage. UTC/CSD did the solid motors.
- Ed Kyle
Lockheed was the launch system integrator for the IIID, Martin was the booster systems integrator.
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ELDO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Launcher_Development_Organisation
ESRO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Research_Organisation
ESA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency
Arianespace
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianespace
CNES
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNES
Diamant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamant
Black Arrow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow
Blue Streak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Streak_(missile)
Europa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_(rocket)
San Marco (Italy SCOUT space program)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marco_programme
...
Blue streak was created by De Havilland with Convair's help, and thus was Atlas little brother with the same balloon tanks but only two engines and as an IRBM.
It was canned by the British military in April 1960 for Skybolt ALBMs and later, Polaris SLBMs.
The British who de facto were the third country in the world with a large and powerful rocket, did not wanted it to go to waste.
They proposed it to the Commonwealth's Canada and Australia - they refused.
They then asked the French, and the answer was positive - except as an European project. And thus ELDO was born.
ESRO history was largely independant.
By 1973 Blue Streak had evolved into Europa II with a French second stage and a Germand stage 3 and a Belgian fairing (AFAIK) - but the whole thing was a disorganized quagmire and finally collapsed after the F11 flight failure late 1971... in Kourou.
Europa was dead and Ariane was born on its ashes. Europa II with Blue Streak was to evolve into Europa IIIB with Vikings and LH2 high-risk stage 2. But the french took the first stage, mated it with lower risk upper stages (also Vikings), creating L3S - later Ariane 1 to 44L.
Late July 1973 the Europeans barely funded a package made of very complicated tradeoffs between Spacelab (for Germany) Ariane (for the French) and Marots (navigation sats fo Britain)
ELDO and ESRO remains were then wrapped up into ESA, born 1975.
Arianespace was created in 1980 when it became painfully obvious that ESA and CNES science and telecom satellites were too few to feed Ariane 1 flight manifest past the test flights. Since ESA members were penny pinching Ariane science payloads and commercial flights, the French fast-moved into the commercial market - and Arianespace was born, originally called Transpace.
Even before those events, a major turning point was 1977 when Ariane (not Arianespace yet) clinched one Intelsat VI launch against Atlas Centaur. Having not flown yet Ariane should never had a chance against the proven Atlas Centaur.
What helped Ariane was the Shuttle commercial siliness that was starting to be felt. Atlas was slowly but surely being screwed in favor of the coming Shuttle, its production line was slowing down and the unit price was rising. Once Ariane clinched that Intelsat VI contract, it was more or less unstopable - although it took the Challenger disaster to be the final nail into the Commercial Shuttle pipe dream.
By 1986 Delta and Atlas production line had grounded to a standstill.
Ariane however had its share of crippling and irritating failures
- destructive pogo on the second flight, May 1980. Never happened again.
- five HM-7s in a row (1982, 1985, 1986, 1994 twice) - LOX/LH2 third stage was hard-learning.
- the 1985 failure was in front of French President François Mitterrand, so it hurt Arianespace teams prides and egos tremendously - although Tonton Mitterrand was pretty leniant with the devastated Kourou teams.
- and the goddam cloth of doom in 1990. By yours truly. https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4085/1
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How early was NASA a customer vs the rocket being launched by the USAF? Were they the customer for the earliest Pioneer missions or the Mercury program? Or did those launches fall under what would otherwise be the regular customer?
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How early was NASA a customer vs the rocket being launched by the USAF? Were they the customer for the earliest Pioneer missions or the Mercury program? Or did those launches fall under what would otherwise be the regular customer?
Pioneer 1, launched by a Thor Able on October 11, 1958, is considered the first spacecraft launched by NASA. The U.S. Air Force actually conducted the launch. Space Technology Lab built the satellite. NASA itself had only existed since created by Congress on July 29 of that year.
The Naval Research Lab's Project Vanguard transferred to NASA in late 1958, forming the nucleus of what became Goddard Space Flight Center. Vanguard was thus essentially NASA's first in-house launch vehicle. It orbited Vanguards 2 and 3 before being shelved, but its upper stages were used to create Thor-Delta, which became another NASA launch vehicle (though with Air Force involvement for Thor at first). NASA's Langley managed development of Scout beginning in 1959, making Scout NASA's second "in-house" launch vehicle. Meanwhile, also in 1959, NASA assumed ARPA's role in the Centaur development effort, giving it a high energy upper stage. Later, in mid-1960, von Braun's group from ABMA joined NASA to create Marshall Space Flight Center. They brought Saturn (and the soon-to-end Juno II project). Etc.
- Ed Kyle