Post by: Satori on 12/19/2018 12:42 pm
For the preparations and launch see https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30377.0
Post by: luhai167 on 12/19/2018 05:53 pm
https://gbtimes.com/change-4-lander-makes-contact-with-queqiao-relay-satellite-from-lunar-orbit
Original social media post in Chinese here. Looks like CAST has kept the tradition of making 1st social media postings for the mission in first person voice from CE3.
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Fd7xObI8Sc97-oO6_rdFNQ
Post by: mcgyver on 12/21/2018 07:30 am
This is more clever than it sounds: the orbit plane has a fixed orientation, but the "terminator plane" of the Moon rotates around Earth at one turn per month, so there will be no need to turn on the engine to move to dark side, it will be the dark side itself to come under Chang'e4! ;)
If right now the orbit is exactly perpendicular to the Earth-Moon line, it will be parallel to it 7 days and 21 days from now (1/4 and 3/4 of a 28 days period rotation, i.e. 90° and 270°), hence 28/12/18 and 11/1/19.
Landing site (Von Kármán crater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Kármán_(lunar_crater))) is around 47.7° S, 177.9° E, with 0°E facing Earth.
Post by: ZachS09 on 12/21/2018 04:39 pm
Has CNSA figured out a name for the Chang'e 4 rover? Or will they name it "Yutu" like the previous rover?
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/21/2018 04:54 pm
Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/28/2018 08:19 am
The initial selenocentric orbit was announced at being 100-400 km, presumably "polar" which can be quite a vague term. I would have thought that the orbit would have been lowered by now, but as far as I am aware there have been no Chinese statements about this.
Post by: mcgyver on 12/28/2018 10:37 am
The Chinese are being very quiet about this lunar mission!Considering tha "failure" of latest rover, I hope they will not wait until the new rover has safely traveled several hundreds meters before releasing news...
The initial selenocentric orbit was announced at being 100-400 km, presumably "polar" which can be quite a vague term. I would have thought that the orbit would have been lowered by now, but as far as I am aware there have been no Chinese statements about this.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/28/2018 11:33 am
Considering tha "failure" of latest rover, I hope they will not wait until the new rover has safely traveled several hundreds meters before releasing news...
The instrumentation on the rover worked for a long time, only the wheels failed because the Chinese underestimated the effects of lunar soil. And don't forget that the main Chang'E 3 spacecraft is still returning data - the longest-operating unmanned spacecraft on the Moon.
Post by: mcgyver on 12/28/2018 03:25 pm
That's why I used the "quotes"; all instruments worked fine... but the wheels. So it actually turned from a rover to a... lander after a few days, hence as a rover it failed.Considering tha "failure" of latest rover, I hope they will not wait until the new rover has safely traveled several hundreds meters before releasing news...
The instrumentation on the rover worked for a long time, only the wheels failed because the Chinese underestimated the effects of lunar soil. And don't forget that the main Chang'E 3 spacecraft is still returning data - the longest-operating unmanned spacecraft on the Moon.
BTW, I never read about root cause of the failure, any link?
Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/28/2018 04:37 pm
That's why I used the "quotes"; all instruments worked fine... but the wheels. So it actually turned from a rover to a... lander after a few days, hence as a rover it failed.Considering tha "failure" of latest rover, I hope they will not wait until the new rover has safely traveled several hundreds meters before releasing news...The instrumentation on the rover worked for a long time, only the wheels failed because the Chinese underestimated the effects of lunar soil. And don't forget that the main Chang'E 3 spacecraft is still returning data - the longest-operating unmanned spacecraft on the Moon.
BTW, I never read about root cause of the failure, any link?
I am sure that it was given in the Chang'E 3 thread in the Chinese section: something to do with the soil being more adhesive than expected and "clogging" the wheels I think.
Post by: Blackstar on 12/28/2018 04:59 pm
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/30/2018 03:36 am
Source (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=13029&pid=633357&fromuid=19646)
Does anyone "in the field" (as we speak - especially if you have contact with the European institutions with instruments on board) knows the planned landing date? I have seen January 2nd and 3rd mentioned in various places and I am sure official updates will be sparse until after the lander is on lunar surface.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/30/2018 04:12 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-12/30/c_137708555.htm
I am wondering if there's an intermediate orbit - say 100 km circular - or whether they did a periselene burn in the 100-400 km orbit to reduce it to 15-100 km.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/30/2018 05:59 am
Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/30/2018 10:54 am
So that suggests a Chang'E 4 landing very early on Thursday morning, UK time?
Post by: mcgyver on 12/30/2018 11:21 am
https://twitter.com/df2mz
https://twitter.com/bg2bhc
https://twitter.com/uhf_satcom
Post by: JimO on 12/30/2018 12:39 pm
If anyone uses LRO's Quickmap, it shows the sun rising over Von Karman right about now. Landing would be several days later but we are getting there!
Apollo needed to land with early morning shadows to guide the pilot. Why would a robot landing need sunlight?
Post by: Blackstar on 12/30/2018 01:44 pm
If anyone uses LRO's Quickmap, it shows the sun rising over Von Karman right about now. Landing would be several days later but we are getting there!
Apollo needed to land with early morning shadows to guide the pilot. Why would a robot landing need sunlight?
Power, for starters. You want to land when you can immediately get power from the solar panels. Land in the dark and you have to work on batteries. At the recent Lunar Exploration Analysis Group meeting in Maryland several people talked about potential American lunar landers. I remember at least one of them assuming a landing 46 hours after local dawn.
Post by: ugordan on 12/30/2018 01:49 pm
Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/30/2018 02:29 pm
Apollo needed to land with early morning shadows to guide the pilot. Why would a robot landing need sunlight?
If you think back to the Luna sample return missions, those had two lunar landing periods each year: the one for February-July launches had landings during local daylight and called for launches back to Earth when the lunar elongation from the Sun was ~90 deg: the other one from August-January had landings on the Moon during local darkness and launches back to Earth with an elongation of ~270 deg: see my JBIS/Space Chronicle paper in issue 1 for 2004.
Of course the sample-return missions only spend around 24 hours on the Moon so solar batteries were not needed for operations during local nighttime.
Post by: JimO on 12/30/2018 02:45 pm
Also, autonomous hazard avoidance needs to, well... *see* the terrain below.Is that a feature of this vehicle?
Power, I can appreciate. And the desire to get early TV of the surrounding terrain. Is there a time constraint on the deployment of the rover?
Post by: ugordan on 12/30/2018 02:53 pm
Also, autonomous hazard avoidance needs to, well... *see* the terrain below.Is that a feature of this vehicle?
It was a feature on Chang'e 3, I can only assume it's used here as well.
Post by: Dalhousie on 12/31/2018 05:56 am
Also, autonomous hazard avoidance needs to, well... *see* the terrain below.
Unless using active sensors such as radar and/or lidar
Post by: ugordan on 12/31/2018 09:51 am
Also, autonomous hazard avoidance needs to, well... *see* the terrain below.
Unless using active sensors such as radar and/or lidar
Chang'e 3 used optical imagery for things like large boulder identification.
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/01/2019 07:12 am
That is, "seems" - I hope someone else tangentially involved can confirm this. :-X
Post by: mcgyver on 01/01/2019 09:29 am
Is autonomous navigation really needed on a spacecraft just 3 lightseconds away going down at 3m/s?Also, autonomous hazard avoidance needs to, well... *see* the terrain below.Is that a feature of this vehicle?
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/01/2019 10:50 am
Is autonomous navigation really needed on a spacecraft just 3 lightseconds away going down at 3m/s?
Remember that the Chinese are testing procedures for landing on Mars and operating a rover there.
Post by: woods170 on 01/01/2019 02:46 pm
Is autonomous navigation really needed on a spacecraft just 3 lightseconds away going down at 3m/s?
Remember that the Chinese are testing procedures for landing on Mars and operating a rover there.
Correct. The ultimate target for China is not the Moon. The Moon is just the "sandbox" environment to get their act together. China is aiming for Mars.
Post by: Blackstar on 01/01/2019 02:54 pm
Is autonomous navigation really needed on a spacecraft just 3 lightseconds away going down at 3m/s?
Remember that the Chinese are testing procedures for landing on Mars and operating a rover there.
Correct. The ultimate target for China is not the Moon. The Moon is just the "sandbox" environment to get their act together. China is aiming for Mars.
That's misleading. They have several other Moon landings planned, and they may even send humans there. This is not just a dress rehearsal for Mars.
Post by: ugordan on 01/01/2019 03:10 pm
That's misleading. They have several other Moon landings planned, and they may even send humans there. This is not just a dress rehearsal for Mars.
Still, gaining more experience with autonomous hazard avoidance is useful. We'll see if their 2nd attempt is as successful.
I realize it's not necessarily as simple with Mars landings given the constraints direct entry trajectories to Mars give you (early afternoon-ish local time landing for Hohmann-type transfers?) so shadows will not be as pronounced and the atmosphere will further reduce contrast for any large boulders on the surface. It's kind of a shame that so far we only got MSL MARDI descent imagery to "train" future Mars lander algorithms, Phoenix would have been a nice additional data set. I wonder if HiRise imagery can be useful in this respect even though hazardous objects just smaller than 1/3 meter would be difficult to resolve from orbit.
Post by: vjkane on 01/01/2019 03:29 pm
That's misleading. They have several other Moon landings planned, and they may even send humans there. This is not just a dress rehearsal for Mars.I think that the Chinese are using their lunar missions to build capabilities for both their lunar and Martian programs. An example of the latter is that their lunar sample return has the ascent vehicle rendezvous with a co-launched orbiter. Based on the Moonrise proposals to NASA, a simpler direct-to-Earth return from the moon is possible. However, the Chinese have stated that they are using the automated rendezvous and sample transfer to develop technologies for Martian sample return where direct-to-Earth is not practical.
It will be interesting to see who gets the first samples back from Mars.
Post by: Blackstar on 01/01/2019 10:58 pm
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/02/2019 12:01 am
Post by: Taxidermista on 01/02/2019 06:51 am
We should be around 24 hours away from the attempted landing. :D
Any info about live coverage outside China?
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/02/2019 06:57 am
Post by: mcgyver on 01/02/2019 12:11 pm
02 January, 00:00 UTC (midnight) at 178.1° East.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 01:32 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46724727
Post by: lcs on 01/02/2019 01:51 pm
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/8101134/china-probe-landing-dark-side-of-moon/
"China's National Space Administration reportedly said the craft will land around 1:00am GMT on Thursday."
Based on Denk's analysis the 24 hour delay would mean the orbital plane would have rotated beyond Van Karman crater.
Post by: tdenk on 01/02/2019 04:40 pm
For reference, it can be found here:
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=8057&view=findpost&p=242821 (http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=8057&view=findpost&p=242821)
The idea is simply that
(1) the orbital plane at LOI was perpendicular (normal vector pointing to Earth) and then
(2) remained fix in space. The Moon rotates below until the trajectory goes over the Von-Kármán crater.
Apparently, one or both of the assumptions were wrong.
Thorsten
Post by: tdenk on 01/02/2019 04:46 pm
in the eastern part of the Von-Kármán crater
and did not change the landing zone without notification. ;D
Thorsten
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 05:25 pm
As an aside, I make the rotation of the apsides to be 0.64 deg/day.
Post by: tdenk on 01/02/2019 05:32 pm
And most time the probe was on a higher orbit.
Two questions:
1) In which direction?
2) What about non polar orbits (e.g. 85deg inclination)?
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 06:05 pm
Inclination 90 deg 85 deg
Nodal Apsides Nodal Apsides
Precession Rotation Precession Rotation
deg/day deg/day deg/day deg/day
Aposelene-Periselene km
400-100 0 0.460 -0.080 0.442
100-100 0 0.598 -0.104 0.576
100-15 0 0.650 -0.113 0.625
The apsides are rotatying in the direction of the satellite's travel.
Post by: Skylab on 01/02/2019 06:21 pm
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 06:33 pm
There won't be any live coverage of the landing, I reckon?
Currently there are no rumours of such coverage. I am wondering whether to stay awake, "just in case".
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/02/2019 06:41 pm
The Sun, the journal of record for all things astronomical, also suggests the landing is near the pole and that the SPA is near the north pole, despite the dark basin interior being clearly visible in the southern hemisphere in their image.
Post by: mcgyver on 01/02/2019 06:48 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR9JJDV6hLU
https://america.cgtn.com/livenews
Guys which can access first link can please confirm in 2nd and 3rd whow same contents?
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 06:54 pm
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/02/2019 08:51 pm
The third assumption of course is that they really land
in the eastern part of the Von-Kármán crater
and did not change the landing zone without notification. ;D
That has happened before. Chang'e 3 was supposed to land in Sinus Iridum, but instead landed east of that location in northern Oceanus Procellarum, south of Montes Recti.
Post by: lcs on 01/02/2019 09:14 pm
The idea is simply that
(1) the orbital plane at LOI was perpendicular (normal vector pointing to Earth) and then
(2) remained fix in space. The Moon rotates below until the trajectory goes over the Von-Kármán crater.
Apparently, one or both of the assumptions were wrong.
Thorsten
@df2mz X-band doppler analysis implied a nearly perpendicular orbital plane as of ~12 hours ago.
https://twitter.com/df2mz
Post by: A12 on 01/02/2019 09:14 pm
Post by: centaurinasa on 01/02/2019 09:21 pm
http://www.planetary.brown.edu/pdfs/5294.pdf
Von Kármán Crater: Awaiting A Visitor:
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1082
Post by: Bob Shaw on 01/02/2019 09:37 pm
"According to 'the Sun' article:"
The Sun, the journal of record for all things astronomical, also suggests the landing is near the pole and that the SPA is near the north pole, despite the dark basin interior being clearly visible in the southern hemisphere in their image.
We're lucky they didn't call it the west pole...
Post by: tdenk on 01/02/2019 09:42 pm
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/02/2019 10:18 pm
And this is the proud that China feels about its own space program. Unbelievable... >:(
Welcome to the NSF forum!
IMO: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is more concerned about the negative connotations of a failure than the spontaneous enthusiasm garnered by live coverage of success.
Compare to the media coverage in the Soviet Union vs. USA during the "classic space race." (my term for the Sputnik to Apollo lunar landing era.)
And I would differentiate between the policies of the rulers and the opinions and feelings of the ruled. Unfortunately, we outside the PRC don't receive very much direct, expressed-in-English exposure to the second. And, that's because of the first!
Even though the CCP is not very communist anymore, they are still of a totalitarian mind-set.
***
Back to following the gleanings of our NSF contributors--a sincere thank you for your efforts (and findings and informed opinions)!
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/02/2019 10:35 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/02/2019 10:36 pm
"That has happened before. Chang'e 3 was supposed to land in Sinus Iridum, but instead landed east of that location in northern Oceanus Procellarum, south of Montes Recti."
Not really. The "Sinus Iridum landing area" extended well outside Sinus Iridum itself, as defined by the area covered by high resolution (low orbit) imaging from Chang'e 2. The landing was targeted for the eastern end of the area so that any delay would allow a landing a few orbits later, still within the landing area. If you aim for a site in the middle of Sinus iridum a delay may push you outside the landing area, in rough terrain in the Jura Mountains, the rim of the 'bay'.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 10:37 pm
It should be landing within the next hour. :D
I think it will be closer to 01:00 UT, in 80 minutes or so.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/02/2019 10:44 pm
Post by: frank808 on 01/02/2019 10:49 pm
And this is the proud that China feels about its own space program. Unbelievable... >:(
Welcome to the NSF forum!
IMO: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is more concerned about the negative connotations of a failure than the spontaneous enthusiasm garnered by live coverage of success.
Compare to the media coverage in the Soviet Union vs. USA during the "classic space race." (my term for the Sputnik to Apollo lunar landing era.)
And I would differentiate between the policies of the rulers and the opinions and feelings of the ruled. Unfortunately, we outside the PRC don't receive very much direct, expressed-in-English exposure to the second. And, that's because of the first!
Even though the CCP is not very communist anymore, they are still of a totalitarian mind-set.
***
Back to following the gleanings of our NSF contributors--a sincere thank you for your efforts (and findings and informed opinions)!
Probably due to the recent trade war and US reaction toward "Made in China 2025", Chinese government is trying to playing down any that could be considered attempt to catch up US, albeit in this field US is at least half century and billions miles ahead. Before that, we did see live media coverage over Chang'e -3 landing and maiden flight of its new rocket.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 10:56 pm
Post by: MATTBLAK on 01/02/2019 11:25 pm
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 11:27 pm
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/02/2019 11:27 pm
http://tv.cctv.com/live/cctv13/
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 11:32 pm
Here's the link to the various CCTV channels which you can watch live. I'm currently watching CCTV13, which is showing the news, but nothing on Chang'e 4 yet.
http://tv.cctv.com/live/cctv13/
Thank you ...... don't they speak Chinese well? ;)
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/02/2019 11:42 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1080623017909207041
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/02/2019 11:44 pm
Post by: Bubbinski on 01/02/2019 11:46 pm
Hat tip to @yezqids
My Chinese language skills are unfortunately nonexistent. If anyone can translate that, that would be great :)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/02/2019 11:47 pm
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/02/2019 11:52 pm
My Chinese language skills are unfortunately nonexistent. If anyone can translate that, that would be great :)
Mine too, so I use Bing Translator. No recent updates though.
http://www.bing.com/translator/
Eight minutes to landing. Another site to watch is the CASC Weibo account.
https://www.weibo.com/casc
Post by: Bubbinski on 01/02/2019 11:56 pm
Will check CCTV 13 shortly - just checked, it’s on commercial.
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/02/2019 11:58 pm
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/03/2019 12:00 am
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 12:07 am
Post by: Bubbinski on 01/03/2019 12:09 am
2:00 am UTC would be 7 pm Mountain
Post by: Skylab on 01/03/2019 12:09 am
Some latest rumors points to a landing time closer to 02:00 UTC.Could you point us to the source of those rumours?
Post by: MATTBLAK on 01/03/2019 12:12 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR9JJDV6hLU
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/03/2019 12:12 am
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 01/03/2019 12:16 am
"We'll know within the next few hours if they've been successful."
Landing will likely be at 9 pm EST.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1080633599492345857
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 12:18 am
They've since moved on to New Horizons coverage.
***
The big news in China, according to themselves, re: "generals listening to speech", is the 40th anniversary of the "Message to Compatriots" in Taiwan--re: re-unification. Said officers and party members were attending a speech of the PRC President.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 12:19 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 01:11 am
Trimmed, because I'm putting my foot down, the foot is down. ;)
Post by: pyr0bee on 01/03/2019 01:15 am
Post by: cjx007 on 01/03/2019 01:20 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 01:22 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 01:23 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 01:24 am
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 01:29 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 01:29 am
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=13029&page=62&authorid=1763
has been said to have been successful (Weibo NASA enthusiasts)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 01:30 am
CGTN update. Hasn't landed yet (I think!).
<personal speculation>
They could be covering on an X-minute delay, so to speak, to ensure a successful landing before reporting on it. None of the coverage that I've seen or heard about here has mentioned a projected/accomplished landing time.
Further on that, they may have STARTED pre-landing coverage only after having confirmation of a successful landing.
</personal speculation>
***
They could announce a successful landing very soon, at the return to the newscast on the half-hour.
***
No, CGTN is covering the 40th anniversary of PRC/USA diplomatic relations and the current "trade war."
***
Given adjacent/following posts in this thread, I suspect that we'll see news of the successful landing at the turn-of-the-hour at 03:00 UTC.
No, CGTN opens 03:00 UTC newscast with news of the disastrous floods and landslides in the Philippines.
EDITed multiple times
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 01:34 am
Starting to see a few posts on Chinese social media that landing has occurred, from several different accounts. I can't judge if they are reliable sources though.
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1080653422083203073
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 01:37 am
Andrew Jones Retweeted
YE Quanzhi @Yeqzids
So around 0230 UT someone who might have access to credible sources just said #ChangE4 has been successfully landed. Further confirmation pending.
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 01:39 am
Andrew Jones @AJ_FI
42 seconds ago
Lots of noise that Chang'e-4 has landed successfully (with a time of 10:26 Beijing time/02:26 UTC being given). Waiting for something official.
Post by: cjx007 on 01/03/2019 01:40 am
http://www.9ifly.cn/thread-13029-62-1.html
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 01:41 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 02:11 am
https://twitter.com/benoitsclx/status/1080661919009259521
Post by: Joey S-IVB on 01/03/2019 02:12 am
Post by: Sizzy on 01/03/2019 02:13 am
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 02:13 am
***
Wow, the newscaster's script apparently deviated from the on-screen graphics!
***
Time for Chinese sports coverage! Includes Premiere League coverage! ;D
***
03:30 coverage will, again, focus on the 40th anniversary of the "Message to Compatriots" in Taiwan, re: re-unification. So, CGTN may cover a successful Chang'e-4 landing in the 04:00 UTC newscast?
04:00 UTC = 12:00 noon BST--the noon-time news.
***
Asking here to prevent cluttering the update thread:
Does a 02:26 UTC landing time match a landing time derived by orbital mechanics--a sub-orbital descent from the final orbit to the vicinity of VK crater?
EDITed multiple times.
Post by: centaurinasa on 01/03/2019 02:14 am
CGTN finished their news program, 03:00-03:15 UTC, with mention of the Chang'e-4 landing as upcoming.
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 02:15 am
Post by: dalecampbell on 01/03/2019 02:24 am
https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514d32597a4e31457a6333566d54/share.html
Here is what the bottom of the science and tech page looked like originally, but not now. I still had it open as it was before.
https://www.cgtn.com/news/section.do?curPage=0&category=4
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 02:25 am
Post by: jcm on 01/03/2019 02:29 am
Still not official. Word is we're waiting for an update. The social media feeds, that ticker and the deleted tweet says it is a success, but we really need that definitive statement.
I read that ticker as being in the "is in the process of making" present tense, as opposed to the 'has made" past perfected...
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 02:32 am
http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=13029&page=66&authorid=18770
Chang ' E No. Fourth soft landing success
Home of it
Hundred, 01-0311:25 It house January 3 News Chang ' E fourth lunar probe successfully soft landing 10:26 A.M. today.
This is the first successful landing of all mankind on the back of the moon. May 21, 2018, Chang ' E No. Fourth relay Star "Bridge" launched.
The Chang ' e fourth lunar probe was launched at the Xichang Satellite Launch Center on December 8, 2018 with a long March third B carrier rocket. December 12, 2018 16:39, Chang ' e fourth detector ended the Lunar transfer section flight, according to the plan successfully completed the recent months of braking, and successfully entered the 100kmx400km Ring Moon elliptical orbit.
December 12, 2018 16:45, Chang ' e fourth detector after about 110 hours of flight, arrived near the moon, successfully implemented the recent months of braking, the successful completion of the "Space brake", was captured by the moon, into the recent month about 100 kilometers of the lunar orbit. December 30, 2018 8:55, Chang ' E fourth detector successfully implemented rail control in the ring moon Orbit, successfully entered the scheduled lunar back landing preparation track.
And on January 3, 2019 10:26 A.M. on the back of the moon in the Antarctic Aiken Basin to achieve the first human soft landing. At present, the status of the detector has not been fully announced, it House will continue to track the report.
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 02:41 am
Emily Lakdawalla @elakdawalla
3m ago
According to @barbylon, if Chang'e 4 has actually landed, @LRO_NASA's first opportunity to image it will be on 4 January.
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 02:49 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 02:51 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:02 am
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 03:03 am
Post by: cjx007 on 01/03/2019 03:03 am
text "chang'e 4 achieved first soft landing on the far side of moon"
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 03:05 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2019 03:06 am
Updated article as Rui's original article had a lot on the mission:
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1080676571533447168
Post by: luhai167 on 01/03/2019 03:09 am
Post by: pyr0bee on 01/03/2019 03:12 am
Post by: MATTBLAK on 01/03/2019 03:13 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:13 am
Andrew Jones @AJ_FI
1 minute ago
Confirmation from CASC, the main space contractor.
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:14 am
Post by: Joey S-IVB on 01/03/2019 03:14 am
Post by: Joey S-IVB on 01/03/2019 03:15 am
Post by: wahaha on 01/03/2019 03:16 am
CGTV is now on
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:16 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:19 am
Post by: luhai167 on 01/03/2019 03:19 am
The lack of coverage - especially on CGTN - is not just frustrating it is bizzare! >:(
The lead news today is still Xi’s hardline speech on Taiwan, i guess news outlet deem that to be more important even if the landing is successful...
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:20 am
Jim Bridenstine
Verified account @JimBridenstine
Congratulations to China’s Chang’e-4 team for what appears to be a successful landing on the far side of the Moon. This is a first for humanity and an impressive accomplishment!
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:22 am
Post by: Joey S-IVB on 01/03/2019 03:22 am
Post by: Skylab on 01/03/2019 03:23 am
Post by: dalecampbell on 01/03/2019 03:23 am
China's Chang'e-4 probe successfully landed on far side of the moon at 10:26 a.m. BJT Thursday. This is the first ever soft-landing on this uncharted area.
The Chang'e-4 – which includes a lander and a rover – is now expected to study the mineral composition and shallow lunar surface structure of the moon's far side, as well as perform low-frequency radio astronomical observation.
It will be a key step in revealing the mysterious side of the moon which never faces the Earth.
The Chang'e-4 probe blasted off nearly a month ago on December 8, 2018 from southwest China's Xichang Satellite Launch Center.
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 03:26 am
Noting the newscast journalist, perhaps ad-libbing, has, a very few times, equated the Moon's far-side with the dark-side or even the invisible-side. I'll give her credit on "invisible"--as that side is generally not visible from Earth.
Apparently, some astronomy misconceptions are international! :)
"Charles" Armstrong and "Edwin" Aldrin (He later legally changed his first name to Buzz.)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:26 am
Post by: Joey S-IVB on 01/03/2019 03:26 am
Post by: wahaha on 01/03/2019 03:27 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:28 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:29 am
Post by: wahaha on 01/03/2019 03:30 am
Coverage on CCTV13. Note sure if image is from Chang'e 4.Yes, the image is from Chang'e 4
Post by: MATTBLAK on 01/03/2019 03:31 am
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 03:32 am
Also harvesting He-3 for fusion "burning" in fusion reactors--to replace energy supplied from coal burning, for instance.
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/03/2019 03:33 am
https://twitter.com/LaunchStuff/status/1080682570956894209
https://twitter.com/LaunchStuff/status/1080690193391341568
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:34 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 03:36 am
Post by: Little Flying Horse on 01/03/2019 03:40 am
Lunar exploration timeline.
They forgot about SELENE (Kaguya)
Post by: wahaha on 01/03/2019 03:43 am
Beijing time: 10:26AM
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 03:44 am
***
Now covering the US Federal partial government shutdown.
Post by: AstroWare on 01/03/2019 03:51 am
Post by: Sizzy on 01/03/2019 03:53 am
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/03/2019 03:53 am
Lunar exploration timeline.
They forgot about SELENE (Kaguya)
Their timeline apparently focuses on "firsts"--Hiten was the first Japanese lunar orbiter.
(Plus all Chinese lunar missions)
Post by: JimO on 01/03/2019 04:03 am
Aitken Basin mission, “Astronomy” magazine, Dec 2005
Post by: Blackstar on 01/03/2019 04:26 am
Some background on the target region, one of the most interesting scientific AND resource-utilization regions on the moon, as US scientists realized years ago ==
Aitken Basin mission, “Astronomy” magazine, Dec 2005
A South Pole-Aitken Basin sample return mission was prioritized in the (American) 2001 planetary science decadal survey, and recognized as scientifically important long before then.
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/03/2019 04:35 am
https://twitter.com/news_srb/status/1080698118310645761
Post by: SciNews on 01/03/2019 06:03 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciXXj0Tj7zk
Post by: woods170 on 01/03/2019 06:16 am
The lack of coverage - especially on CGTN - is not just frustrating it is bizzare! >:(
Their program, their coverage.
Live with it.
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 06:32 am
The Chinese understand things differently :) I remember the 2010: Second Odyssey by Arthur Clarke and Tsien spacecraft. Some spoilers : the Chinese never announced what was the purpose of Tsien, and it secretly leaved Low earth orbit to head for Europa. And yes - it was their spacecraft, their right how to operate it and how public it would be.
Actually, there's one thing we can do. If we are unhappy with how other countries operate their missions... then we can ask our governments and countries to make their own missions. Certainly NASA or ESA can do it, right? New Horizons wouldn't have happened without public support. We can do it again.
Post by: MATTBLAK on 01/03/2019 06:58 am
If you have a point to make - I'm not sure what that is... Why pick on me?! Your irritation mystifies me... (a little)The lack of coverage - especially on CGTN - is not just frustrating it is bizzare! >:(
Their program, their coverage.
Live with it.
EDIT: Clarification of my remarks - The Chang'e 3 landing a few years ago was carried absolutely live in great detail. This mission was not - that's what was bizzare to me! They can certainly do what they like - they don't care what a foreigner like me thinks. But your attempted suppression of my opinion is something I would never do to you.
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/03/2019 07:21 am
http://tv.cctv.com/2019/01/03/VIDEhQEoDOuWcfY5zyrdFsjr190103.shtml
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 07:33 am
Post by: cjx007 on 01/03/2019 07:56 am
Post by: gdelottle on 01/03/2019 08:14 am
EDIT: actually two, considering the dual communication system as a separate one and earlier...
Post by: Semmel on 01/03/2019 08:31 am
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 08:32 am
Is this the first time that China achieves an... absolute "first time" or there have been others in the past, AFAYK?
An excellent question. I may be wrong, but I think the Chinese achieved another first in the past - moon orbiting + asteroid flyby (Chang'e 2 mission). A similar dual mission of the USA (Clementine) was not successful - the spacecraft orbited the moon, but failed to make a scientific flyby of an asteroid.
Post by: woods170 on 01/03/2019 09:14 am
If you have a point to make - I'm not sure what that is... Why pick on me?! Your irritation mystifies me... (a little)The lack of coverage - especially on CGTN - is not just frustrating it is bizzare! >:(
Their program, their coverage.
Live with it.
EDIT: Clarification of my remarks - The Chang'e 3 landing a few years ago was carried absolutely live in great detail. This mission was not - that's what was bizzare to me! They can certainly do what they like - they don't care what a foreigner like me thinks. But your attempted suppression of my opinion is something I would never do to you.
Why I replied to your post? Simple. You were the one displaying frustration over the (lack of) live coverage of this mission.
It is IMO not up to you (and me neither btw) to have any expectations with regards to (live) coverage of someone else's space program. Particularly when it concerns the Chinese space program.
You might remember that I similarly confronted another regular here, some years ago, when he kept complaining about ESA not releasing their images of the Ulysses mission.
Here's the thing: the world is spoiled rotten with all the public domain stuff being released by NASA. But the visitors of the NSF forums would be well advised to remember that the referenced NASA policy is actually the exception, rather than the norm.
All the other space agencies around the world are (very) much more restrictive, and much more inconsequent, about what they release (and when) to the public.
But I digress.
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 09:20 am
You might remember that I similarly confronted another regular here, some years ago, when he kept complaining about ESA not releasing their images of the Ulysses mission.
Ulysess had no camera.
Other space agencies may be more conservative with how they release images to the public, but this should change, as I've already explained here: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3052/1
But yes, this is off-topic. The discussion was not about image releases of Chang'e 4 - after all, we got images and even a video from today's landing. It was about lack of live coverage of spacecraft operations.
Post by: woods170 on 01/03/2019 09:28 am
You might remember that I similarly confronted another regular here, some years ago, when he kept complaining about ESA not releasing their images of the Ulysses mission.
Ulysess had no camera.
Other space agencies may be more conservative with how they release images to the public, but this should change, as I've already explained here: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3052/1
But yes, this is off-topic. The discussion was not about image releases of Chang'e 4 - after all, we got images and even a video from today's landing. It was about lack of live coverage of spacecraft operations.
Emphasis mine.
Correct. But the crew onboard space shuttle Discovery - which launched Ulysses on mission STS-41 - did have cameras. Both NASA furnished cameras and ESA furnished cameras. The images from the NASA cameras were pretty much all released to the public domain. The images from the ESA cameras were not.
That's what I was referring to.
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 09:34 am
This should change.
Again, we got three selected images from Chang'e 4 mission, which is enough to satisfy the public for some time. Plus we got a nice descend video. I do hope we'll see how the rover gets released today.
Post by: zhangmdev on 01/03/2019 09:55 am
A few interesting points:
Powered descent procedural is different from Change'e-3
And micro-biosphere experiment module by Chongqing University.
https://tech.sina.com.cn/d/s/2019-01-03/doc-ihqfskcn3641384.shtml
Edit: made a translation of the image of descent procedural
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/03/2019 10:06 am
Have the Chinese released a video of the descent taken from Chang'E 4 similar to the one which we had from #3? Perhaps that will come "with time", of course.
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 10:09 am
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1080779473950330880
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 11:07 am
Map used is from 7 meters resolution photos from Chang'e 2.
Post by: Star One on 01/03/2019 11:53 am
Post by: JJ starman on 01/03/2019 11:58 am
And is that the side the Rover will Deploy from ??
Post by: MattBaker on 01/03/2019 12:04 pm
Further to the above wasn’t it stated that LRO should be able to image it tomorrow?
Yup
https://twitter.com/elakdawalla/status/1080669265965924352
Post by: SciNews on 01/03/2019 12:30 pm
Maybe someone here can get a more precise co-ordinate from the photos?Aren't these the coordinates?
Edit: From CNSA
Quote
The probe, comprised of a lander and a rover, touched down at the preselected landing area at 177.6 degrees east longitude and 45.5 degrees south latitude on the far side of the moon at 10:26 a.m. (Beijing Time)http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/english/n6465652/n6465653/c6805049/content.html
Post by: arthin on 01/03/2019 12:48 pm
Aren't these the coordinates?Something like this. On the LROC map, I've found this point near -45.44:177.59.
Post by: LouScheffer on 01/03/2019 12:58 pm
But the visitors of the NSF forums would be well advised to remember that the referenced NASA policy is actually the exception, rather than the norm.
All the other space agencies around the world are (very) much more restrictive, and much more inconsequent, about what they release (and when) to the public.
This is not just China. In almost every other area of science, it's unusual to release raw data before the experimenters have calibrated it, validated it, and gained the first insights. While discussing this issue with my boss (who is a long-time big-science biologist) he was not aware of any project that had ever released data before the paper(s) were published. All the examples of rapid release that I could find for him were in spaceflight or astronomy. If anyone has examples from other fields that would be very helpful, as I argue for faster data release.
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 01:04 pm
Post by: JimO on 01/03/2019 01:30 pm
Let's not forget that a Chinese rocket (Long March 5) suffered a launch failure 1.5 years ago, and it was broadcast live. This certainly had an impact. The landing of Chang'e 4 was very risky - it truly went where nobody has gone before. Perhaps the Chinese didn't want to risk another failure being broadcast live.
Excellent point. That failure was also observed widely in the Philippines.
July 2, 2017 Long March 5 launch failure
http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/18_chisat_fail_phil_final_draft.pdf
Post by: Blackstar on 01/03/2019 01:55 pm
China is currently sharing pictures from the surface of the far side of the Moon. That's pretty impressive, even if some people want to kick their toes in the dirt.
Post by: Apollo-phill on 01/03/2019 01:56 pm
Its coordinates were 41.01 deg South , 11.41degrees West.
Now, consider Change'-4 landing earlier today on the farside with coordinates 43.31 degrees South and 177.6 deg East.
Nearly - not quite (!!) - Change'-4 does a " mirror image" of Surveyor-7 on a full lunar map/globe !
Phill Parker
UK
Post by: Blackstar on 01/03/2019 01:59 pm
Note that NASA's Surveyor had a single solar panel on top of a pole. That stayed open the entire time. That was really a compromise approach and not how you would want to do things today (limits the size, for starters).
(Corrected: I mistakenly thought the two panels at the top of the Surveyor pole were both solar panels, but one was a solar array and the other was a high gain antenna.)
Post by: lcs on 01/03/2019 02:02 pm
Post by: whiztech on 01/03/2019 02:12 pm
Quote
The lunar rover for China's Chang'e-4 probe was given the name "Yutu-2" (jade rabbit) after making a soft-landing on the far side of the Moon on Thursday, said China's National Space Administration.
https://www.facebook.com/ChinaGlobalTVNetwork/photos/a.566725090034982/2776574232383379/?type=3&theater
edit:
twitter link
https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1080839206207840256
Post by: Apollo-phill on 01/03/2019 02:12 pm
Had to devise this "cheap and nasty description" for radio interviews today so public has idea of where von karman crater is !
And,yes,Surveyor missions are some of my favourite early mission highlights.
Phill
UK
Post by: freddo411 on 01/03/2019 02:39 pm
If you have a point to make - I'm not sure what that is... Why pick on me?! Your irritation mystifies me... (a little)The lack of coverage - especially on CGTN - is not just frustrating it is bizzare! >:(
Their program, their coverage.
Live with it.
EDIT: Clarification of my remarks - The Chang'e 3 landing a few years ago was carried absolutely live in great detail. This mission was not - that's what was bizzare to me! They can certainly do what they like - they don't care what a foreigner like me thinks. But your attempted suppression of my opinion is something I would never do to you.
Why I replied to your post? Simple. You were the one displaying frustration over the (lack of) live coverage of this mission.
It is IMO not up to you (and me neither btw) to have any expectations with regards to (live) coverage of someone else's space program. Particularly when it concerns the Chinese space program.
You might remember that I similarly confronted another regular here, some years ago, when he kept complaining about ESA not releasing their images of the Ulysses mission.
Here's the thing: the world is spoiled rotten with all the public domain stuff being released by NASA. But the visitors of the NSF forums would be well advised to remember that the referenced NASA policy is actually the exception, rather than the norm.
All the other space agencies around the world are (very) much more restrictive, and much more inconsequent, about what they release (and when) to the public.
But I digress.
I too register my disappointment with delayed coverage. It happens to a lesser extent on US missions too; note that Dawn withheld many images during it's close passes over the intriguing bright spot on Ceres. In the US, these missions are publically funded, they are required to release their info publically, but by policy they do have an exception to embargo data for a time (presumably as a reward and leg up to the scientists working the mission).
As a taxpayer and voter that pays for and authorizes these NASA missions I believe that we ought to be entirely transparent with all imagery by making it public as it is downloaded. The public perception is more important than the scientists' interest in embargoing the information.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/03/2019 02:42 pm
Post by: Liss on 01/03/2019 03:05 pm
【揭晓了！月球车命名为“玉兔二号”】2018年12月8日2时23分，#中国探月工程##嫦娥四号任务# 着陆器和巡视器（月球车）组合体发射升空，2019年1月3日10时26分成功着陆月球背面，随即着陆器与巡视器分离，22点22分@月球车玉兔二号 到达月面，开始就位探测和巡视探测。@月球车玉兔 @中国探月工程
Descended to the surface at 22:22 Beijing time = 14:22 UTC.
Post by: whitelancer64 on 01/03/2019 03:07 pm
QuoteThe lunar rover for China's Chang'e-4 probe was given the name "Yutu-2" (jade rabbit) after making a soft-landing on the far side of the Moon on Thursday, said China's National Space Administration.
https://www.facebook.com/ChinaGlobalTVNetwork/photos/a.566725090034982/2776574232383379/?type=3&theater
edit:
twitter link
https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1080839206207840256
The wheels look pretty near to identical to the first Yutu rover.
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/03/2019 03:10 pm
https://weibo.com/2656274875/Hai4yAj6E (https://weibo.com/2656274875/Hai4yAj6E)
Post by: redliox on 01/03/2019 03:16 pm
Here is Yutu 2 rolling off the ramp onto the Moon surface:
They don't seem to hesitate in deploying their vehicles like NASA. I recall how both Sojourner and InSight didn't move for days if not weeks post-landing. Any reason to Chinese methodology, or is it at least in the case of Yutu-2 they feel confident in their rover's design?
Post by: Star One on 01/03/2019 03:18 pm
Here is Yutu 2 rolling off the ramp onto the Moon surface:
https://weibo.com/2656274875/Hai4yAj6E (https://weibo.com/2656274875/Hai4yAj6E)
The rabbit certainly didn’t waste any time in escaping from its hutch.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/03/2019 03:37 pm
The rabbit certainly didn’t waste any time in escaping from its hutch.
It was longer than Yutu [1] being deployed from Chang'E 3.
Post by: djellison on 01/03/2019 03:44 pm
I recall how both Sojourner and InSight didn't move for days if not weeks post-landing. Any reason to Chinese methodology, or is it at least in the case of Yutu-2 they feel confident in their rover's design?
Sojourner was deployed from Pathfinder on Sol 2 - the day after landing.
The InSight arm was first moved on Sol 4.
The operational paradigm on the Moon is quite dramatically different. You have a LOT of bandwidth compared to a typical Mars mission, and you have near realtime commandability. Typical Mars surface missions basically only get one uplink to the spacecraft each morning, so any 'unit' of activity ( checkouts, deployments etc ) always take at least a day each.
Moreover, on the Moon you have 2 weeks of constant sunlight pouring into your solar panels, so you can have the spacecraft basically permanently active, near realtime commanded, for 300 hours consecutively.
Between uplink and downlink on a Mars surface asset - you typically only get about 5 or 6 hours, so 300 hours of surface ops would take more like a month or two.
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 01/03/2019 03:48 pm
Post by: Star One on 01/03/2019 04:13 pm
Post by: whitelancer64 on 01/03/2019 04:22 pm
Do we know how much Yutu 2 has been upgraded from the first one, or is it an identical copy?
I think the only official word is that the systems that failed on Yutu-1 were much improved on Yutu-2. At a glance, with this resolution of photo, they look identical. Yutu-2 is built from backup hardware from the Yutu-1 mission. Similar to what was done with Curiosity and Rover 2020.
Post by: zhangmdev on 01/03/2019 05:03 pm
I think that is definitely from Chang'e 3 panorama
http://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlnews/2014/3/289376.shtm
Hard to believe that was almost 5 years ago.
Post by: mcgyver on 01/03/2019 05:28 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv_t6etXQAIECXq.jpg)
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1080844184125345798
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv_7vBJUYAEN2q6.jpg)
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1080859230444257280
Post by: clongton on 01/03/2019 07:47 pm
My sincerest congratulations to the Chinese for this accomplishment. It was well done!
Post by: JimO on 01/03/2019 07:50 pm
I too register my disappointment with delayed coverage. ….
Recall that there were several days of silence after the Toutatis flyby when some of us began to suspect a failure -- turned out it was a terrifying unintentionally too-close nearly-collided fly-by. But the pictures were sensational, another contact binary like Ultima-Thule.
Post by: Lars-J on 01/03/2019 07:53 pm
The rigoleth appears more "dirt"-ier than what we've seen from the near side. I would sure love to know the composition of that "soil". BTW, how is Chang'e 4 communicating with earth? Do the Chinese have a relay communications satellite in a halo orbit around EML-2?
My sincerest congratulations to the Chinese for this accomplishment. It was well done!
Yes, they do have a relay satellite around EML-2.
My congratulations as well! :)
Post by: Svetoslav on 01/03/2019 07:57 pm
https://twitter.com/TheRealBuzz/status/1080917897768329216
Post by: Bob Shaw on 01/03/2019 08:07 pm
Post by: Bob Shaw on 01/03/2019 08:14 pm
Post by: whitelancer64 on 01/03/2019 08:46 pm
The rigoleth appears more "dirt"-ier than what we've seen from the near side. I would sure love to know the composition of that "soil". BTW, how is Chang'e 4 communicating with earth? Do the Chinese have a relay communications satellite in a halo orbit around EML-2?
My sincerest congratulations to the Chinese for this accomplishment. It was well done!
The first pictures from Chang'e 3 were brownish like that, too. Similar regolith colors can be seen on some Apollo photographs, as well. It may have something to do with the camera's color calibration, or the lunar "morning" sun angle. More "noon" lunar time the surface may appear more gray because more light is bounced away into space.
Post by: clongton on 01/03/2019 09:26 pm
The regolith appears more "dirt"-ier than what we've seen from the near side. I would sure love to know the composition of that "soil". BTW, how is Chang'e 4 communicating with earth? Do the Chinese have a relay communications satellite in a halo orbit around EML-2?
My sincerest congratulations to the Chinese for this accomplishment. It was well done!
The first pictures from Chang'e 3 were brownish like that, too. Similar regolith colors can be seen on some Apollo photographs, as well. It may have something to do with the camera's color calibration, or the lunar "morning" sun angle. More "noon" lunar time the surface may appear more gray because more light is bounced away into space.
I'm not talking about the color. I'm looking at the texture. Look at the ridges of those tracks. Very well defined. Just does not look like the dusty regolith we saw on the near side.
Post by: Lars-J on 01/03/2019 11:27 pm
The regolith appears more "dirt"-ier than what we've seen from the near side. I would sure love to know the composition of that "soil". BTW, how is Chang'e 4 communicating with earth? Do the Chinese have a relay communications satellite in a halo orbit around EML-2?
My sincerest congratulations to the Chinese for this accomplishment. It was well done!
The first pictures from Chang'e 3 were brownish like that, too. Similar regolith colors can be seen on some Apollo photographs, as well. It may have something to do with the camera's color calibration, or the lunar "morning" sun angle. More "noon" lunar time the surface may appear more gray because more light is bounced away into space.
I'm not talking about the color. I'm looking at the texture. Look at the ridges of those tracks. Very well defined. Just does not look like the dusty regolith we saw on the near side.
I think you forget how well defined prints were on the moon. (see bottom of attached image)
Any different appearance is more likely due to the tires being a different construction/thread.
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/04/2019 02:45 am
The prime landing zone wss chosen such that the back up landing zone would also be suitable for operations.
Source (http://scitech.people.com.cn/n1/2019/0104/c1007-30502637.html)
Post by: SciNews on 01/04/2019 08:34 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXclKk3EgM
Post by: wahaha on 01/04/2019 10:26 am
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 01/04/2019 12:04 pm
https://twitter.com/cgtnofficial/status/1081151126626398208
Post by: Satori on 01/04/2019 06:20 pm
Chinese media, netizens hail historic landing on moon's far side (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/04/c_137720019.htm).
Astronomers worldwide hail China's successful landing of Chang'e-4 lunar probe (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/04/c_137720013.htm).
Interview: Landing of Chang'e-4 on moon a great achievement, says Spanish expert (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/04/c_137719359.htm).
China Focus: Scientists expect breakthrough findings on moon's far side (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/04/c_137719354.htm).
Post by: wahaha on 01/05/2019 12:47 am
Post by: Blackstar on 01/05/2019 01:30 am
China Focus: China's upgraded lunar rover drives on moon's far side (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/04/c_137719617.htm).
This article has some good details on Yutu-2:
"LIGHTER
The 135-kg new rover is 2 kg lighter than its predecessor and is the lightest rover ever sent to the moon, said Jia Yang, deputy chief designer of the Chang'e-4 probe, from the China Academy of Space Technology (CAST).
The main reason for the weight reduction is the removal of a robotic arm and its replacement with an instrument developed by Swedish scientists to analyze the radiation environment on the lunar surface, said Jia.
Like Yutu, which landed on the moon at the end of 2013, the new rover carries subsurface penetrating radar to detect the near-surface structure of the moon and an infrared spectrometer to analyze the chemical composition of lunar substances.
Two panoramic cameras, like two eyes, can take high-resolution, color images.
The rover, with a design life of three months, can cross rocks as high as 20 cm, at a maximum speed of 200 meters per hour.
SMARTER
At nighttime on the moon, temperatures can drop to about negative 180 degrees Celsius. During the Chang'e-3 mission, the ground control center instructed that the rover would remain dormant each night, said Zhang He, executive director of the Chang'e-4 probe project, from CAST.
Once the sun would rise, Yutu would wake automatically, but it needed ground control to instruct it to start the work mode, Zhang said.
However, Yutu-2 will automatically enter the dormant state according to the level of sunlight, and it can also enter the work state on its own.
"We made this adjustment because communication between ground control and the Chang'e-4 probe on the far side of the moon is not as convenient as communication with Chang'e-3 on the near side," said Zhang.
STRONGER
China's first lunar rover Yutu suffered a mechanical fault after driving about 114 meters five years ago.
"How to solve that problem so that it won't happen again was the main challenge in developing the new rover," said Zhang Yuhua, another deputy chief designer of the probe.
"We have improved the layout of the wires on the new rover and taken measures to prevent short circuits. We also made a fault isolation design so that if a problem occurs, it will not affect the whole system," said Sun Zezhou, chief designer of the Chang'e-4 probe.
"Compared with Yutu, our second rover is stronger," said Shen Zhenrong, a designer of the rover, from CAST.
"We are confident our new rover can run farther on the moon and obtain more scientific results," Sun said."
Post by: gdelottle on 01/05/2019 08:04 am
The Queqiao relay satellite is in Halo orbit. I understand that in a frame of reference rotating with the Earth-Moon axis the orbital "plane" remains the same, except for some small variation due to the nature of Halo orbit. This is the trick allowing the satellite to be in contact with Yutu-2 all time, as there is no obscuration during the 28 orbit of the Moon around the Earth.
Is this correct? And if this is the case, how can this happen without consuming some relevant energy like for any change in the orbital plane? Who is "paying" for that in terms of potential or kinetic energy?
Post by: eeergo on 01/05/2019 03:00 pm
Noon hibernation coming up in 5 days.
Post by: eeergo on 01/05/2019 03:40 pm
A bit off-topic but I hope someone can answer a question.
The Queqiao relay satellite is in Halo orbit. I understand that in a frame of reference rotating with the Earth-Moon axis the orbital "plane" remains the same, except for some small variation due to the nature of Halo orbit. This is the trick allowing the satellite to be in contact with Yutu-2 all time, as there is no obscuration during the 28 orbit of the Moon around the Earth.
Is this correct? And if this is the case, how can this happen without consuming some relevant energy like for any change in the orbital plane? Who is "paying" for that in terms of potential or kinetic energy?
The perturbation caused by Earth, allowing this special kind of "Moon" orbit to be achieved, is carrying the brunt of paying for the plane precession halo orbits imply. The orbital plane remains perpendicular to the Earth-Moon line throughout the moon's orbit. See this paper for example: http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1979CeMec..20..389B&defaultprint=YES&filetype=.pdf
Post by: JulesVerneATV on 01/05/2019 07:35 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1081095992865423360/photo/1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/06/2019 12:02 am
A picture near the bottom of this report shows tentative plans for the early operations. It exactly mirrors what was done by the previous rover.
Post by: Blackstar on 01/06/2019 01:28 am
http://m.bldaily.com/china/news/p-373798.html (http://m.bldaily.com/china/news/p-373798.html)
A picture near the bottom of this report shows tentative plans for the early operations. It exactly mirrors what was done by the previous rover.
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/08/2019 03:06 am
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/08/2019 03:32 am
https://spacenews.com/chinas-lunar-rover-enters-standby-mode-for-noon-nap-as-change-4-tests-continue/
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/08/2019 06:36 am
Post by: Satori on 01/08/2019 02:14 pm
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/09/2019 03:32 am
"We will let Queqiao work as long as possible. It could also provide communication for probes from other countries if they intend to explore the moon's far side within the lifetime of the satellite," said Ye Peijian, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and a senior space expert.
Post by: Blackstar on 01/09/2019 05:05 am
The interesting bit from the article.
"We will let Queqiao work as long as possible. It could also provide communication for probes from other countries if they intend to explore the moon's far side within the lifetime of the satellite," said Ye Peijian, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and a senior space expert.
Yes, that is a remarkably clever move. It gives China a unique asset to offer to potential partners.
Post by: clongton on 01/09/2019 02:40 pm
The interesting bit from the article.
"We will let Queqiao work as long as possible. It could also provide communication for probes from other countries if they intend to explore the moon's far side within the lifetime of the satellite," said Ye Peijian, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and a senior space expert.
Yes, that is a remarkably clever move. It gives China a unique asset to offer to potential partners.
Yea. It's something that people here have been advocating for NASA to do for a very long time but afaict NASA hasn't taken it seriously because it was an asset they had no use for. However that is exactly the kind of asset that would be part of a long term infrastructure plan for HSF in and around cis-lunar space. But because of ever-changing directions from various administrations and Congress pulling the purse strings to satisfy pork needs on the home front, NASA cannot create, let alone actually execute any such long term planning. Everything has to happen in the near term to satisfy 2 and 4 year election cycles. That really hurts NASA's awesome potential on that front. But I digress.
Post by: mcgyver on 01/09/2019 03:20 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/09/2019 06:30 pm
This article was linked from the CLEP Weibo account. It briefly summarizes the current situation and the reason for taking a 'siesta' (if I can indulge in a bit of cultural fusion). Link to it in Chrome to get a rough translation.
Chang'e 3 and Yutu did the same thing - a nap in the middle of the first day as a precaution against the noon heat. And it did it at the same place, after the second drive. If my memory is correct they did not plan to do this in the second day, but that is roughly when Yuyu stopped working. At the time I thought it might have been a heat-related problem, but we know now that it was an electrical fault instead. So it will be interesting to see if they do that again in lunar day 2.
The Lunokhods also took breaks around noon, but that was more to do with visibility for driving.
Post by: Olaf on 01/10/2019 08:24 am
Post by: Olaf on 01/10/2019 12:17 pm
Yutu-2 rover reawakens after midday nap to continue Chang'e-4 objectives
Post by: Satori on 01/10/2019 03:38 pm
Post by: Satori on 01/10/2019 03:40 pm
Post by: wahaha on 01/11/2019 12:23 am
Post by: wahaha on 01/11/2019 12:32 am
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/11/2019 02:01 am
Post by: Blackstar on 01/11/2019 03:45 am
China Focus: China welcomes world's scientists to collaborate in lunar exploration (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/10/c_137734265.htm).
"The scientists of the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) of NASA have also cooperated with the team of the Chang'e-4 mission to study the landing of the Chang'e-4 probe, according to CNSA.
The U.S. side has offered the orbital data of LRO and the Chinese side has provided the landing timing and location, said CNSA."
This is interesting but also very puzzling.
Before the CE3 landing, CNSA and NASA had an agreement: NASA would share LRO data and even help the Chinese interpret it, and in return, CNSA would provide the time and location of the CE3 landing engine burn so that NASA could monitor it with LADEE and determine how much gas was being added to the lunar exosphere. NASA provided the information and then the Chinese reneged on the deal, not providing the information that they had agreed to provide. This was not received well in the U.S. among the very few people who were aware of it, because NASA had to gain special permission from Congress to engage in that cooperative effort, and afterwards it looked like China had taken advantage of NASA.
https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/
(As an aside: I've discussed this with several business people who have done business with China and they have all experienced similar situations. China has proven to be unreliable as a partner.)
So I find it very hard to believe that NASA and CNSA had any kind of agreement prior to the CE4 landing, because NASA would have had to get permission from Congress again, and why should anybody trust the Chinese on this? Plus, there's no real value to knowing the time and location of the CE4 landing, because NASA no longer had LADEE in orbit to monitor it. Now maybe NASA could have tried to monitor the landing using LRO, but that seems doubtful.
One possibility is that CNSA simply used the publicly available LRO photos of the area, and then sent NASA a message with the time and location of the landing, but there was no actual agreement. Another possibility is that this account is greatly distorted and nothing like this actually happened.
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/11/2019 05:32 am
Post by: K-P on 01/11/2019 06:38 am
This immediately makes the landing site very clear:
Thanks for the image.
What's the width of the circled area?
Post by: wahaha on 01/11/2019 07:41 am
Post by: SciNews on 01/11/2019 07:46 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG89jelo5S8
Post by: whiztech on 01/11/2019 07:50 am
edit:
English CGTN stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg9GBSHfESk
Post by: cjx007 on 01/11/2019 07:51 am
Post by: pyr0bee on 01/11/2019 07:55 am
Post by: frensel on 01/11/2019 08:01 am
https://www.guancha.cn/industry-science/2019_01_11_486549.shtml
Post by: wahaha on 01/11/2019 08:45 am
https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2019-01-11/doc-ihqfskcn6221307.shtml
Post by: SciNews on 01/11/2019 08:59 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJi_YEubKCY
Post by: ugordan on 01/11/2019 08:59 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwDYN5J5chA
Post by: wahaha on 01/11/2019 09:16 am
https://roundme.com/tour/350106/view/1179570/
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/11/2019 09:23 am
https://twitter.com/LaunchStuff/status/1083669995517870086
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/11/2019 09:25 am
Post by: Alter Sachse on 01/11/2019 09:42 am
Chang’e-4 landing (Onboard Camera View)landed 02:25:53 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJi_YEubKCY
Post by: ugordan on 01/11/2019 10:00 am
Post by: wahaha on 01/11/2019 11:13 am
Post by: eeergo on 01/11/2019 11:21 am
Youtube mirror of the landing video. Note that the footage is sped up 2.5x as the original frame rate is 10 fps and played back at 25 fps in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwDYN5J5chA
You can see how the probe hovers for a few seconds what looks like a few meters from the ground, while (presumably) the onboard hazard avoidance routine kicks in!
Post by: eeergo on 01/11/2019 11:25 am
Full res images:
Look at that long pole following the left horizon in the second image :D
Post by: eeergo on 01/11/2019 11:34 am
Post by: ugordan on 01/11/2019 11:48 am
You can see how the probe hovers for a few seconds what looks like a few meters from the ground, while (presumably) the onboard hazard avoidance routine kicks in!
If the Chang'E 3 landing is anything to go by (it's the same architecture), that hover happened at 100 m altitude.
Post by: eeergo on 01/11/2019 12:26 pm
You can see how the probe hovers for a few seconds what looks like a few meters from the ground, while (presumably) the onboard hazard avoidance routine kicks in!
If the Chang'E 3 landing is anything to go by (it's the same architecture), that hover happened at 100 m altitude.
It looked lower than that to me when played in real time, but it's surely difficult to judge with the almost fractal lunar terrain -- although the hover happened at the point where the appearance of progressively smaller craters gave way to small-scale features like rocks.
EDIT: In fact, judging from this very not-to-scale diagram I found after posting (from here (https://gbtimes.com/how-the-change-4-spacecraft-will-land-on-the-far-side-of-the-moon)), it looks like the final avoidance phase would start with LIDAR at 100 m but the hovering would be at lower altitudes.
Post by: ugordan on 01/11/2019 12:40 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKYrAM3EJh8
Post by: eeergo on 01/11/2019 12:44 pm
Here's the previous landing for reference, altitude is marked in the lower right:
I think you converted me, I see now :) Thanks for the comparison!
Post by: Satori on 01/11/2019 03:12 pm
Post by: Satori on 01/11/2019 03:13 pm
Post by: Satori on 01/11/2019 03:14 pm
Post by: Dalhousie on 01/12/2019 12:45 am
Post by: Lsquirrel on 01/12/2019 02:39 am
Chang’e-4 landing (Onboard Camera View)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJi_YEubKCY
official landing video：
http://www.sastind.gov.cn/video/2018/C4jlsp.mp4
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/12/2019 03:20 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/11/c_137736993_7.htm
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/12/2019 03:23 am
Post by: SciNews on 01/12/2019 10:13 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZZKkauhBqY
Post by: ugordan on 01/12/2019 04:02 pm
Post by: Blackstar on 01/12/2019 04:44 pm
http://www.leonarddavid.com/nasa-moon-orbiter-pinpoints-chinas-farside-landing-locale/
Post by: Liss on 01/13/2019 11:55 am
探月四期任务规划了嫦娥四号、嫦娥七号、嫦娥六号、嫦娥八号任务！
The fourth phase of the lunar exploration mission has planned the tasks of the No. 4, No. 7, No. 6, and No. 8!
研制系列化、长寿命、可持续使用的探测器功能模块，在月球南极附近构建月球科研站基本型，具备全月面到达长时间工作高智能协同能力，开展月球环境和资源探测及利用。
Develop a serialized, long-life, and sustainable detector function module to build a basic type of lunar research station near the moon's south pole. It has a full-time, long-term, high-intelligence synergy capability, and conducts lunar environment and resource detection and utilization.
2018年前后完成嫦娥四号月球背面着陆巡视探测
2018 year approx. completed Chang’e 4 Lunar back side lander and rover research
2023年前后实施嫦娥七号极区环境与资源勘查
2023 year approx. completed Chang’e 7 Polar area environment and resource exploration
2024年前后实施嫦娥六号月球极区采样返回
2024 year approx. completed Chang’e 6 Moon polar area sample return
2027年前后实施嫦娥八号月球极区资源开发利用验证
2027 year approx. completed Chang’e 8 Lunar polar area resource development and utilization verification
http://passport.acfun.cn/a/ac4857461
https://twitter.com/LiuyiYiliu/status/1084396577404284928
Post by: eeergo on 01/13/2019 05:44 pm
Post by: SciNews on 01/14/2019 07:45 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FiaHwv-BI
Post by: cjx007 on 01/14/2019 08:39 am
Here's the previous landing for reference, altitude is marked in the lower right:
I think you converted me, I see now :) Thanks for the comparison!
Sun Zezhou (Chef Designer for Chang'e 4) said hover was 100m in the conference today. Not sure what's going on.
http://www.scio.gov.cn/xwfbh/xwbfbh/wqfbh/39595/39653/index.htm
Post by: eeergo on 01/14/2019 10:36 am
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1084721946162532352
Post by: Prettz on 01/14/2019 04:35 pm
China declares Chang'e-4 mission complete success (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/11/c_137736993.htm).Already? I thought an objective of this one was to last a lot longer than Chang'e 3.
Post by: Blackstar on 01/14/2019 04:42 pm
China declares Chang'e-4 mission complete success (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/11/c_137736993.htm).Already? I thought an objective of this one was to last a lot longer than Chang'e 3.
I suspect this means "so far."
The program almost certainly has their own set of mission success criteria. I don't know what they are, but in the case of NASA there is usually a "primary mission phase" with a set of objectives that have to be achieved. This is more than just "land and turn on" and is usually based upon the quality of returned data--so it's not just that you've turned an instrument on, but that it is getting the data that you specified as required to achieve the science objectives.
So I'm guessing that the CE4 program managers have their own list of success criteria and they probably require operating on the surface for at least a certain amount of time and gathering a certain amount of data.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/14/2019 04:49 pm
Post by: luhai167 on 01/14/2019 05:16 pm
China declares Chang'e-4 mission complete success (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/11/c_137736993.htm).Already? I thought an objective of this one was to last a lot longer than Chang'e 3.
I suspect this means "so far."
The program almost certainly has their own set of mission success criteria. I don't know what they are, but in the case of NASA there is usually a "primary mission phase" with a set of objectives that have to be achieved. This is more than just "land and turn on" and is usually based upon the quality of returned data--so it's not just that you've turned an instrument on, but that it is getting the data that you specified as required to achieve the science objectives.
So I'm guessing that the CE4 program managers have their own list of success criteria and they probably require operating on the surface for at least a certain amount of time and gathering a certain amount of data.
It means the engineering goal of the programs is a complete success, and the project can be turned to its science portion with Chinese Academy of Science in the driver seat. In this case, I suspect it means it landed in where CAS wanted to land, all instruments deployed and tested to their customer’s satisfaction to allow it to be handed over. It also opens gate block that hinged on the success of this mission.
For example, CE3 was declared a completely success fairly early as well, which meant CE4 can go for a more ambitious landing site. Given the announcement of CE7 and CE8 shortly after the CE4 declared success, I guess their mission funding depended on it.
Post by: wahaha on 01/14/2019 11:33 pm
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6589155/China-wants-3D-print-lunar-base.html
Post by: Blackstar on 01/15/2019 12:38 am
Worth reading.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6589155/China-wants-3D-print-lunar-base.html
I think the filters you need to apply to Daily Mail articles are so thick that even when they do have actual news, it's almost impossible to trust it.
One of the lines I snorted at was right in the title: "and reveals it intends to return again THIS YEAR"
Yeah, they "revealed" plans for CE5 several years ago. It's not like this is sudden.
Post by: wahaha on 01/15/2019 03:44 am
https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d414f7949444d32457a6333566d54/share_p.html
Post by: SciNews on 01/15/2019 09:48 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9yfWlzq5uU
Chongqing University press release (Chinese) https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/hS3SI8x3J0NFD9ZuZ5AArw
Post by: mcgyver on 01/15/2019 10:01 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEbg_dt3DM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEbg_dt3DM)this looks like an "anomalous" Moon landing to me, being the engine kept on down to the ground: it is instead supposed to be turned off 1-2 meters above ground, to allow a free-fall landing, which prevents high-speed regolite paticles from damaging the lander. This is why '60s landing modules had 1.5 meters pole hanging from the legs: as soon as they touched ground, the blue contact light on dashboard was turned on an the pilot turned off the engine.
Here instead I see engine on even after touchown.
Freefall landing from 2 meters above ground is possible on the Moon thanks to low gravity; on Mars it is possible only a few CENTImeters above ground.
Post by: eeergo on 01/15/2019 02:38 pm
I can't figure out here (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=175.6371751,-46.5307422,179.4793903,-44.2347996&proj=7&query=74&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraXOUNEQ4BmE9ebbIA)the exact point of the landing site, are precise coordinates known? 177.6E,45.5S is not precise enough.
I followed the video in the response you quoted (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47004.msg1900384#msg1900384) and I arrived at approximately 177.58859 E, 45.45647 S, closest to the top (in North-up view) crater in the triangle found at around 177.588, -45.457.
Post by: Olaf on 01/15/2019 05:56 pm
Chang’e-4 spacecraft enter lunar nighttime, China planning future missions, cooperation
Post by: Blackstar on 01/15/2019 10:06 pm
CE6 info is here:
www.leonarddavid.com/china-details-future-moon-exploration-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ikL8xeh7ggUwwGK4wqT9FhV-1SF30e7V3yuLYUUbxlWMfRr7FRG3fkj4
This article covers most of the same material but misses the CE6 angle:
https://spacenews.com/change-4-spacecraft-enter-lunar-nighttime-china-planning-future-missions-cooperation/?fbclid=IwAR2JBGxQyEj-4Tq7ujo6g7mTlpQo-sn66hlKqk_P6WYS6RnKHNiEi3g3sF0
Post by: SciNews on 01/16/2019 07:09 am
Quote
The Chang'e-4 probe entered a "sleep mode" on Sunday as the first lunar night after the probe's landing fell. The temperature could drop as low as about minus 170 degrees centigrade.http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745505.htm
"Life in the canister would not survive the lunar night," Xie said.
The experiment has ended. The organisms will gradually decompose in the totally enclosed canister, and will not affect the lunar environment, said the China National Space Administration (CNSA).
Post by: mcgyver on 01/16/2019 08:26 am
I can't figure out here (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=175.6371751,-46.5307422,179.4793903,-44.2347996&proj=7&query=74&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraXOUNEQ4BmE9ebbIA)the exact point of the landing site, are precise coordinates known? 177.6E,45.5S is not precise enough.
I followed the video in the response you quoted (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47004.msg1900384#msg1900384 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47004.msg1900384#msg1900384)) and I arrived at approximately 177.58859 E, 45.45647 S, closest to the top (in North-up view) crater in the triangle found at around 177.588, -45.457.
Thanks, I eventually got it; images are upside-down, that's why I got lost!
I attach my study to locate the exact point on maps.
These are the interactive maps:
Map 1 (http://webmap.lroc.asu.edu/lunaserv.html?projection=ORTHO&c_lon=177.58794489110738&c_lat=-45.45619138217428&x=0&y=0&resolution=0.9999999999999998&layers=LUNA_WAC_GLOBAL,NAC_STAMPS)
Map 2 (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc?projection=ORTHO&c_lon=177.589&c_lat=-45.456&x=-41.74399532657003&y=-17.604239100590007&resolution=0.9999999999999998&layers=LUNA_WAC_GLOBAL,NAC_STAMPS)
Map 3 (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=177.5664201,-45.4657504,177.6039723,-45.4481436&proj=7&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraXOUNEQ4BmE9ebbIA)
Post by: mcgyver on 01/16/2019 08:29 am
And the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEbg_dt3DM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEbg_dt3DM)
First frame of the descent phase annotated in attachment too.
Post by: luhai167 on 01/16/2019 08:45 am
I wonder if this means the experiment’s environmental controls can’t stay in the power budget for the RTG so they give up on heating through the lunar night all together. That would explain the change from silkworm to fruit flies and give up on potato.QuoteThe Chang'e-4 probe entered a "sleep mode" on Sunday as the first lunar night after the probe's landing fell. The temperature could drop as low as about minus 170 degrees centigrade.http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745505.htm
"Life in the canister would not survive the lunar night," Xie said.
The experiment has ended. The organisms will gradually decompose in the totally enclosed canister, and will not affect the lunar environment, said the China National Space Administration (CNSA).
The article from april seems indicate the temperature will be controlled to ranged from 1C to 30C. This is a publicly submitted done by universities as well, so it probably does not have the same priority as experiments from CAS and CNSA itself.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/12/c_137106225.htm
Quote
BEIJING, April 12 (Xinhua) -- China's Chang'e-4 lunar probe is expected to do many things unprecedented in space history after it launches later this year, such as touching down softly on the far side of the Moon and taking the first flowers to blossom on the lifeless lunar surface.
The probe will carry a tin containing seeds of potato and arabidopsis, a small flowering plant related to cabbage and mustard, and probably some silkworm eggs to conduct the first biological experiment on the Moon.
The "lunar mini biosphere" experiment was designed by 28 Chinese universities, led by southwest China's Chongqing University, a conference on scientific and technological innovation of Chongqing Municipality has heard.
The cylindrical tin, made from special aluminum alloy materials, is 18 cm tall, with a diameter of 16 cm, a net volume of 0.8 liters and a weight of 3 kilograms. The tin will also contain water, a nutrient solution, air and equipment such as a small camera and data transmission system.
Researchers hope the seeds will grow to blossom on the Moon, with the process captured on camera and transmitted to Earth.
Although astronauts have cultivated plants on the International Space Station, and rice and arabidopsis were grown on China's Tiangong-2 space lab, those experiments were conducted in low-Earth orbit, at an altitude of about 400 kilometers. The environment on the Moon, 380,000 kilometers from the Earth, is more complicated.
Liu Hanlong, chief director of the experiment and vice president of Chongqing University, said since the Moon has no atmosphere, its temperature ranges from lower than minus 100 degrees centigrade to higher than 100 degrees centigrade.
"We have to keep the temperature in the 'mini biosphere' within a range from 1 degree to 30 degrees, and properly control the humidity and nutrition. We will use a tube to direct the natural light on the surface of Moon into the tin to make the plants grow," said Xie Gengxin, chief designer of the experiment.
"We want to study the respiration of the seeds and the photosynthesis on the Moon," said Liu.
"Why potato and arabidopsis? Because the growth period of arabidopsis is short and convenient to observe. And potato could become a major source of food for future space travelers," said Liu. "Our experiment might help accumulate knowledge for building a lunar base and long-term residence on the Moon."
The public, especially young people, are being encouraged to participate in the Chang'e-4 mission. The China National Space Administration (CNSA) launched a contest among students across China in 2016, collecting ideas on the design of the payloads.
The "lunar mini biosphere" experiment was selected from more than 200 submissions, according to the CNSA.
edit: confirmed
https://gbtimes.com/lunar-nighttime-brings-end-to-change-4-biosphere-experiment-and-cotton-sprouts
Quote
Liu Hanlong, head of the experiment at Chongqing University, said at a Chongqing government press conference on Tuesday that the temperature inside the 1-litre-capacity canister had reached -52 degrees Celsius and the experiment had ended.
According to Liu, the experiment did not carry a battery and could not continue environmental control during the lunar nighttime. The lack of battery was possibly due to mass constraints for the mission and the lander's own power demands.
....
The canister was a popular science experiment, selected from proposals submitted to a contest that invited students to design a small payload for the lander, and thus of less importance than the main science goals of the mission.
It was one of a number of outreach initiatives related to the Chang'e-4 mission, which also included a competition to choose a name for the mission rover.
Post by: eeergo on 01/16/2019 01:25 pm
Temperature in the biocanister is -52şC :O Some deep-frozen greens for dinner?
And just to confirm what was rumored a few days ago, only fruit fly eggs were carried, not silkworm eggs. No clear status on those though.
Post by: SciNews on 01/16/2019 01:56 pm
Quote
Professor Xie Gengxin, of Chongqing University and chief designer of the experiment, said a canister installed on the lander of the Chang'e-4 probe contained the seeds of cotton, rapeseed, potato, and arabidopsis, as well as eggs of the fruit fly and some yeast, to form a simple mini biosphere.http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745432.htm
Post by: mcgyver on 01/18/2019 09:21 am
I didn't have same luck with Chang'e4: SW successfully reconstructed position and orientation of the camera at each frame, but the reconstructed terrain is very coarse and imprecise.
Did anybody have better luck with this?
Post by: mcgyver on 01/18/2019 01:54 pm
These are the interactive maps:According to above sites, there are no narrow images (NAC) covering the area yet; such images should reach 30cm/pixel resolution and should allow a good 3d reconstruction of at least the biggest crater visible behind Yutu2, or at least a good anaglyph.
Map 1 (http://webmap.lroc.asu.edu/lunaserv.html?projection=ORTHO&c_lon=177.58794489110738&c_lat=-45.45619138217428&x=0&y=0&resolution=0.9999999999999998&layers=LUNA_WAC_GLOBAL,NAC_STAMPS)
Map 2 (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc?projection=ORTHO&c_lon=177.589&c_lat=-45.456&x=-41.74399532657003&y=-17.604239100590007&resolution=0.9999999999999998&layers=LUNA_WAC_GLOBAL,NAC_STAMPS)
Map 3 (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=177.5664201,-45.4657504,177.6039723,-45.4481436&proj=7&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraXOUNEQ4BmE9ebbIA)
Post by: Blackstar on 01/18/2019 04:00 pm
"This past month, the article explains, NASA held discussions with the China National Space Administration (CNSA) to explore the possibility of observing a signature of the landing plume of their lunar lander, Chang’e 4, using the space agency’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter’s (LRO) LAMP instrument.
LAMP stands for Lyman Alpha Mapping Project, an ultraviolet imaging spectrograph instrument on LRO. LAMP was developed by the Southwest Research Institute.
“For a number of reasons, NASA was not able to phase LRO’s orbit to be at the optimal location during the landing, however NASA was still interested in possibly detecting the plume well after the landing,” explains the NASA-posted article. “Science gathered about how lunar dust is ejected upwards during a spacecraft’s landing could inform future missions and how they arrive on the lunar surface.”"
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/18/2019 05:22 pm
Here is a good NAC image of the area:
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE)
There is another one with very low angle illumination. So there are images already.
Post by: mcgyver on 01/18/2019 05:54 pm
"According to above sites, there are no narrow images (NAC) covering the area yet"thanks, filtering by NAC I didn't get anything.
Here is a good NAC image of the area:
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE)
There is another one with very low angle illumination. So there are images already.
Post by: Liss on 01/26/2019 09:06 am
Chang'e 4 lander and Yu'tu Ⅱrover wake up in 26 Jan. The first science data publish in 1 Feb on this website: 202.106.152.98:8081/moondata/
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/26/2019 06:04 pm
Post by: Olaf on 01/28/2019 03:00 pm
I saw that tweet, but the 26th is too early - sun will not rise until the 28th and operations probably not until the 29th.https://gbtimes.com/change-4-set-for-day-2-of-lunar-far-side-activities-with-sunrise-over-von-karman-crater
Quote
There have been no official updates from China regarding the mission for two weeks, but sunrise over the eastern edge of the crater began on January 28 according to Virtual Moon Atlas, suggesting that the Chang'e-4 craft will resume operations on or around the 29th, when the Sun will be higher in the sky to provide solar power to the spacecraft.
Post by: Blackstar on 01/29/2019 06:15 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/29/c_137784351.htm
http://www.leonarddavid.com/china-plans-return-to-flight-of-long-march-5-booster/?fbclid=IwAR2B571WV1Fx3ivexYXL3GFzOMXhMnrcWVgdl54tO6zvmDP97Y-nN170IMA
But they seem to be talking about still trying to launch CE5 in 2019, so maybe the slip of the Long March 5 launch from January to July is something they previously planned but did not announce.
Post by: Olaf on 01/30/2019 05:02 am
Post by: SciNews on 01/31/2019 09:27 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/31/c_137789743.htm
Quote
The lander woke up at 8:39 p.m. Wednesday, and the rover, Yutu-2 (Jade Rabbit-2), awoke at about 8:00 p.m. Tuesday, surviving their first lunar night after making the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon, said CNSA.Xinhua: Chang'e-4 finds moon's far side colder than expected during night
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/31/c_137789823.htm
Quote
China's Chang'e-4 probe, having made the first-ever soft landing on moon's far side, found that the temperature of the lunar surface dropped to as low as minus 190 degrees centigrade, colder than expected.
Post by: sophismos on 01/31/2019 03:23 pm
Xinhua: Chang'e-4 finds moon's far side colder than expected during nightOxygen: boiling point is -183 degrees centigrade (−297.332 °F), melting point is -218 degrees centigrade; so at -190°C LH-LOX-Engines might get problems
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/31/c_137789823.htmQuoteChina's Chang'e-4 probe, having made the first-ever soft landing on moon's far side, found that the temperature of the lunar surface dropped to as low as minus 190 degrees centigrade, colder than expected.
Post by: Olaf on 02/01/2019 01:13 pm
Post by: Olaf on 02/02/2019 02:12 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/02/2019 11:22 pm
Post by: eeergo on 02/04/2019 08:28 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1092500087148892161
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/06/2019 06:15 pm
This link is to the 9ifly forum, where a user has posted a map of Von Karman showing names "approved by the IAU" (the IAU planetary nomenclature site at USGS does not show it but they may not have updated yet, perhaps due to shutdown issues).
Three craters around the landing site take names from the 'summer triangle' of bright stars, Vega, Altair, Deneb but using their Chinese names. The landing site is Statio Tianhe, where Tianhe means Milky Way. The names refer to the story of the Weaver and the Cowherd, lovers separated by the Milky Way and allowed to meet by crossing on a bridge formed of magpies, the same story from which the relay satellite gets its name. Finally the central peak is named Mons Tai after Taishan, a mountain in China.
Post by: SciNews on 02/06/2019 07:00 pm
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/first-look-change-lunar-landing-site
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/07/2019 10:12 am
does it take very long time for LRO to adjust it's orbit in order to be exactly on top of chang'e 4 landing site?
i thought the above link would show "before- after landing" pics.
Post by: eeergo on 02/07/2019 11:58 am
its more than a month after chang'e 4 landing...
does it take very long time for LRO to adjust it's orbit in order to be exactly on top of chang'e 4 landing site?
i thought the above link would show "before- after landing" pics.
Probably don't wanna adjust it and spend fuel. Chang'e-4 isn't going to move now, and everyone knows exactly where it is, so the value of imagery is limited and won't change with time. If they were able to get this picture by slewing, precession should soon take them close to the site for a more vertical view.
It is improbable there are similar, from-the-side images of the area from before the landing.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/08/2019 05:12 am
The Moon rotates under an orbiter's orbit plane, so if LRO was 300 km east of the landing site in Von Karman on the 30th when it took that image, on the next orbit it was closer, and on the next orbit closer still. Approximating here, a point on the surface moves about 12 degrees to the east in a lunar day at the equator, so about 9 degrees or 270 km in a day at this latitude.
So LRO passed over the lander with a nice vertical view on the 31st as we were told earlier. It almost certainly took an image, but it has not been released yet. And we have a very nice pre-landing image of the site, LROC image M134022629L:
http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE (http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc/view_lroc/LRO-L-LROC-2-EDR-V1.0/M134022629LE)
From that link you can get a zoomable version and download the raw data (very large file).
Post by: mcgyver on 02/08/2019 07:39 am
NASA: First Look: Chang'e Lunar Landing SiteCouldn't they just wait for a meaningful image before releasing? This image is totally useless.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/first-look-change-lunar-landing-site (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/first-look-change-lunar-landing-site)
Post by: ugordan on 02/08/2019 07:48 am
This image is totally useless.
Speak for yourself.
Post by: SciNews on 02/09/2019 08:53 am
Post by: eeergo on 02/11/2019 07:19 am
Post by: mcgyver on 02/11/2019 01:39 pm
Pre-landing:
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1084 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1084) - NAC M134022629LR (too short ID?)
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1087 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1087) - NAC M1298916428LR
Aafter landing:
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1090 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1090) (Jan 30) - NAC M1303521387LR
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1091 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1091) (Jan 31) - NAC M1303570617LR
Official landing site coordinates: Latitude -45.457° N, Longitude 177.589° E ( http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1087 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1087) )
First tweet (https://twitter.com/nepetro/status/1080860905490075655) about landing site coords: "Looks like Change-4 landed near 45.47084 South, 177.60563 East "Actual coordinates: 45.45700°S, 177.58900°E - MAP (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=177.571506,-45.4667688,177.6016214,-45.4469994&proj=7&features=176.60344369,-45.47022135,176.60575199,-45.47022135,176.60564708,-45.47196131,176.60331800,-45.47191428,176.60344369,-45.47022135|177.58666595,-45.45456410,177.59288107,-45.45447008,177.59265572,-45.45919500,177.58642259,-45.45914798,177.58666595,-45.45456410&selected=1&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLrc0A)
Absurdly similar location: 45.47084 South, 176.60563 East - MAP (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=176.5876442,-45.4799941,176.6181386,-45.46022&proj=7&features=176.60344369,-45.47022135,176.60575199,-45.47022135,176.60564708,-45.47196131,176.60331800,-45.47191428,176.60344369,-45.47022135|177.58666595,-45.45456410,177.59288107,-45.45447008,177.59265572,-45.45919500,177.58642259,-45.45914798,177.58666595,-45.45456410&selected=0&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLrc0A) (!!!)
Post by: whitelancer64 on 02/11/2019 08:09 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1094871037311881216
Nice to hear they have beaten their previous distance record.
Post by: Liss on 02/12/2019 07:35 am
http://www.spacechina.com/n25/n2014789/n2014804/c2486267/content.html
Quote
嫦娥四号着陆器、巡视器在春节期间工作正常 今日进入月夜休眠模式
CE-4 Lander and Patrol are working normally during the Spring Festival. Entering the Moonlight Sleep Mode today.
来源：中国探月工程
Source: China Lunar Exploration Project
日期：2019年02月11日
Date: February 11, 2019
春节期间，嫦娥四号着陆器和巡视器工作稳定，能量平衡，各系统工况正常，数据传收正常，红外成像光谱仪、中性原子探测仪等科学载荷顺利开展科学探测活动。巡视器于2月11日2时22分移动至LEO0210点，在月面累计行驶120米左右。
During the Spring Festival, the CE-4 lander and rover were stable, the energy was balanced, the working conditions of each system were normal, the data transmission was normal, and the scientific load such as infrared imaging spectrometer and neutral atomic detector successfully carried out scientific exploration activities. The rover moved to [LEO0210 point] on [February 11] [02:22] and accumulates around 120 meters on the lunar surface.
经地面分析，目前着陆器、巡视器状态满足月夜休眠要求，将按计划于2月11日19时与19时30分先后进入月夜休眠模式。巡视器预计将于2月28日唤醒，着陆器预计将于3月1日唤醒，继续开展科学探测活动。
After ground analysis, the current state of the lander and rover meets the requirements for moon-night dormancy, and will enter the moon-night sleep mode at 19:00 and 19:30 on February 11 as planned. The rover is expected to wake up on February 28, and the lander is expected to awaken on March 1 to continue scientific exploration activities.
Post by: plutogno on 02/15/2019 05:05 am
https://www.iau.org/news/pressreleases/detail/iau1901/
Post by: Blackstar on 02/15/2019 04:44 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/nasa-wants-to-get-to-the-moon-as-fast-as-possible-but-countries-like-china-and-india-are-racing-there-too/2019/02/14/d2944b90-2bec-11e9-b2fc-721718903bfc_story.html?fbclid=IwAR23pP-pOsrO4GsFHeel9F45FD3tDTNid52w0biMdilBBqPkngpUUEPsLfs&utm_term=.ea0e63db9093
NASA wants to get to the moon ‘as fast as possible.’ But countries like China and India are racing there, too.
By Christian Davenport
February 14 at 4:57 PM
During the height of the Space Age, the United States and the Soviet Union bushwhacked a frantic path to the lunar surface, landing nearly 20 spacecraft softly on the moon between 1966 and 1976, including the six carrying NASA’s Apollo astronauts.
Post by: cro-magnon gramps on 02/15/2019 06:47 pm
I took the screen shot from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8DM4PwCQH8
PS I had a flashback to the Sputnik, when I first saw the positioning of the sites in the Lunar craters. Totally unexpected. So not a race. Just showing aspirations.
Post by: zandr on 02/15/2019 08:28 pm
Quote
Chang'e-4 landing site named "Statio Tianhe"
(http://s7.uploads.ru/SezXn.jpg)
(http://s9.uploads.ru/t/wZDKP.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/wZDKP.jpg) (http://s7.uploads.ru/t/JyOwZ.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/JyOwZ.jpg)
(http://s5.uploads.ru/t/tkEqQ.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/tkEqQ.jpg) (http://s3.uploads.ru/t/LSUEh.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/LSUEh.jpg)
(http://sd.uploads.ru/t/EvubM.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/EvubM.jpg) (http://s3.uploads.ru/t/a7tBz.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/a7tBz.jpg)
Photo provided by the China National Space Administration (CNSA) shows the image of Mons Tai, a hill near "Statio Tianhe", the landing site of China's Chang'e-4 lunar probe. The landing site of China's Chang'e-4 lunar probe has been named "Statio Tianhe" after the spacecraft made the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon last month. Together with three nearby impact craters and one hill, the name was approved by the International Astronomical Union (IAU), Liu Jizhong, director of the China Lunar Exploration and Space Engineering Center of the China National Space Administration (CNSA), said at a joint press conference held in Beijing Friday. "Tianhe" is the Chinese word for Milky Way and "Statio" is Latin for base. Three craters were given the names Zhinyu, Hegu and Tianjin, three constellations of the twenty-eight mansions in traditional Chinese astrology. The hill used to locate the three craters is named Mons Tai after Mount Tai, a Chinese mountain of historical and cultural significance. The press conference was jointly held by the CNSA, the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the IAU. According to the CNSA, the Chang'e-4 lunar probe made the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon on Jan. 3. (Xinhua/CNSA)
BEIJING, Feb. 15 (Xinhua) -- The landing site of China's Chang'e-4 lunar probe has been named "Statio Tianhe" after the spacecraft made the first-ever soft landing on the far side of the moon last month.
Together with three nearby impact craters and one hill, the name was approved by the International Astronomical Union (IAU), Liu Jizhong, director of the China Lunar Exploration and Space Engineering Center of the China National Space Administration (CNSA), said at a joint press conference...
Post by: zandr on 02/15/2019 08:45 pm
(http://sd.uploads.ru/QPKuE.jpg)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 02/15/2019 08:58 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-02/15/c_137824960_3.htmAre the accompanying images LROC imagery?QuoteChang'e-4 landing site named "Statio Tianhe"
<snip>
Post by: clongton on 02/15/2019 09:19 pm
I'm rather annoyed by this "race" nonsense.
I agree. As China is learning, and India will ultimately learn, getting to and landing on the moon with mission spacecraft that are worth the effort is very expensive and very hard. We landed crews on the lunar surface 6 times. And then, to our shame, we never went back. For decades after that I never understood the reasons why. It wasn't until I entered politics that I finally knew. Going to the moon then had nothing to do with exploring new frontiers. It had everything to do with politics. Apollo had 1 objective and 1 objective only - beat the Soviets to the moon. On July 20, 1969, we did that, and shamefully, for all intents and purposes, the program ended on that day. It took a few years for the momentum to die down, but it ended on that day.
I am very anxious for US crews to return to the lunar surface. But the very last thing we need to do is spend billions of dollars in political stunts and once again be heartbroken by broken dreams and wasted human and national treasure in stupid political stunts. Apollo had meaning. Apollo had purpose. And it accomplished its mission. But millions of us didn't understand at the time why we quit. Now I do, and I don't want to see us make the mistake of expending huge efforts in misguided efforts to beat others there. That's not a good reason to return.
We should go back to the moon, but only as part of a very long term effort to settle as much of the solar system as we reasonably can, in reachable places, that actually advance the cause of making humanity a space-faring species. We need to explore, learn, theorize, create spacecraft that test those theories, and repeat the process over and over again, reaching ever further into our home system, on a schedule that is based on reality, not on misguided national ego to be king of the hill. No more "races". That's really dumb. Yes, let's do this again, but let's do it this time for real, with long term commitment and sustainability. I too get really annoyed by this "race" nonsense.
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/16/2019 03:27 am
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 02/16/2019 04:04 am
I'm rather annoyed by this "race" nonsense.
I agree, there is no race as anyone who watches China's glacial pace of progress can see, but "China going slowly to the Moon" does not grab the headlines!
Post by: Phillip Clark on 02/16/2019 06:57 am
On the other hand, it might appear that India is "racing" against China in some areas.
Post by: Star One on 02/16/2019 07:53 am
The Chinese are not "racing" anyone to the Moon or anywhere else. They have their plans, influenced in part by local politics, and they keep to those plans irrespective of what others might be doing.
On the other hand, it might appear that India is "racing" against China in some areas.
Or vice versa on the last point.
Can’t believe people are getting so bent out of shape by one word that media like attaching to lots of things in science and technology. The race to the first quantum computer, the race to the first fusion generator etc etc that I personally don’t take much notice of it now. Maybe it’s also because I don’t have the same direct emotional attachment to Apollo as others obviously do as because of my age it has always been a historical event.
Post by: clongton on 02/16/2019 11:15 pm
The Chinese are not "racing" anyone to the Moon or anywhere else.
Comments above were in response to the quoted Washington Post article that spoke of "NASA's" attitude.
Post by: PM3 on 02/16/2019 11:58 pm
scnr ;)
Post by: mcgyver on 02/19/2019 06:13 am
[/size]Interactive zoomable LROC images:Pre-landing: http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1084 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1084) - NAC M134022629LR (too short ID?) http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1087 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1087)[/size] - NAC M1298916428LR Aafter landing:http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1090 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1090) (Jan 30) - NAC M1303521387LRhttp://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1091 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1091) (Jan 31) - NAC M1303570617LR[/size]
New image:
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1092 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1092) (Feb 1) - NAC M1303619844LR
Interactive map:
https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/projections?extent=177.5739652,-45.4662978,177.6040295,-45.4477037&proj=7&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraeOVYMlg8BOdebbIA (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/projections?extent=177.5739652,-45.4662978,177.6040295,-45.4477037&proj=7&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraeOVYMlg8BOdebbIA)
Decrease zoom and click on satellite icon on top-right corner to see LRO position in orbit.
Click on lat/lon in low part of the screen to manually specify center location of image. Click on zoom number (expressed in m/px) to change it manually.
Official landing site coordinates: Latitude -45.457° N, Longitude 177.589° E
Post by: Olaf on 02/27/2019 12:34 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/27/2019 08:29 pm
This links to a page of posts on the chinese 9ifly forum which contains a map of the Yutu 2 traverse so far. I am trying to ascertain its origin - any advice from chinese speakers much appreciated!
Post by: nonothing on 02/27/2019 10:03 pm
http://www.9ifly.cn/thread-5819-98-1.html (http://www.9ifly.cn/thread-5819-98-1.html)Hi, Phil
This links to a page of posts on the chinese 9ifly forum which contains a map of the Yutu 2 traverse so far. I am trying to ascertain its origin - any advice from chinese speakers much appreciated!
It looks like it's taken from this web page:
https://k.sina.cn/article_6180132521_p1705d56a900100eogu.html?wm=3049_0016&from=qudao&http=fromhttp
But that page doesn't provide the ultimate source.
The Chinese on the image reads:
Yutu 2 went into hibernation again at 20.00 on 11th February. It has travelled 120m so far.
Post by: nonothing on 02/27/2019 10:19 pm
http://k.sina.com.cn/article_6180132521_1705d56a900100e61h.html
Post by: Olaf on 02/28/2019 06:46 am
Post by: wahaha on 02/28/2019 10:23 pm
Post by: zandr on 03/01/2019 06:44 pm
Quote
China's Chang'e-4 probe resumes to work after lunar night
BEIJING, March 1 (Xinhua) -- The rover and the lander of the Chang'e-4 probe have resumed work after "sleeping" during their second lunar night on the far side of the moon.
The lander woke up at 7:52 a.m. Friday, and the rover, Yutu-2 (Jade Rabbit-2), awoke at about 10:51 a.m. Thursday. Both of them are in normal condition, according to the Lunar Exploration and Space Program Center of the China National Space Administration...
Post by: zandr on 03/03/2019 08:28 pm
Quote
BEIJING, March 3 (Xinhua) -- China will gradually open data collected by the Chang'e-4 lunar probe to the world, the country's lunar program chief designer said.http://russian.news.cn/2019-03/03/c_137866066.htm
Wu Weiren, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, made the statement in his capacity as a member of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, the country's top political advisory body, on the sidelines of its annual session, which opened on Sunday.
The Chang'e-4 probe made the first-ever soft landing on the Von Karman Crater in the South Pole-Aitken Basin on the far side of the moon on Jan. 3.
Wu said both the lander and the rover have been woken up from a "sleep mode" and are now collecting new data.
Wu added that China plans to launch the Chang'e-5 probe later this year to collect samples from the moon and bring them back to the earth and to launch a probe in 2020 to orbit, land and rove on Mars.
Google translate:
Quote
…
"The design duration of the Chang'e-4 landing module is six months, and that of the Yuytu-2 lunar rover is three months. Judging by their current state, they will work much longer than the design lifetime," he said.
Wu Weiren...
Post by: Olaf on 03/04/2019 12:54 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/04/2019 05:02 pm
Post by: Liss on 03/05/2019 06:50 am
看！师父@中国探月工程 给我画了一张我的行车路线图。
Look! Master @CLEP I drew a map of my driving route.
在月球上的第1个白天，我走了44.185米，漂了个移，给四姐拍了一张照片。
第2个白天，我走了75.815米，又给四姐拍了张照。
On the first day of the moon, I walked 44.185 meters, drifted and took a picture of the four sisters.
In the second day, I walked 75.815 meters and took a photo of the four sisters.
可不是在到处玩儿，测试行走性能也是我的工作之一。走过的每一片区域，我都会用相机拍下地形地貌，还会分析土壤和岩石里的矿物成分，等这些数据传回地球了，再给你们看看。
It's not like playing around, testing walking performance is one of my work. In every area I walked, I used the camera to take pictures of the topography, and also analyzed the minerals in the soil and rocks. When the data was transmitted back to Earth, I would show it to you.
因为没有空气，我的脚印会和阿姆斯特朗、前辈@月球车玉兔 的足迹一起，在月球上保留至少几十万年，想想就有点激动。
Because there is no air, my footprints will be kept on the moon for at least several hundred thousand years along with the footprints of Armstrong, the predecessor @月球车玉兔, and I am a little excited to think about it.
Post by: Olaf on 03/09/2019 01:39 pm
Post by: Olaf on 03/11/2019 09:37 am
Post by: Olaf on 03/13/2019 07:56 am
Post by: Olaf on 03/13/2019 12:48 pm
Post by: Olaf on 03/25/2019 04:56 am
Post by: Olaf on 03/30/2019 05:02 am
Post by: eeergo on 03/31/2019 07:45 pm
Both up and running!
Post by: Phil Stooke on 04/03/2019 05:48 pm
Post by: Olaf on 04/09/2019 10:30 am
Post by: Olaf on 04/12/2019 08:51 am
Post by: eeergo on 04/23/2019 11:05 am
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1120633389936205825
There was also a data handover ceremony for the foreign-provided instruments (Swedish, German and Dutch).
Post by: otter on 04/29/2019 08:15 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-04/29/c_138021848.htm
Post by: Olaf on 04/29/2019 09:53 am
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1122455703103389696
Post by: eeergo on 05/06/2019 08:26 am
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1125311865788215296
Post by: Olaf on 05/11/2019 08:09 am
Post by: luhai167 on 05/16/2019 01:09 am
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1189-0
National Geo coverage
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/05/china-rover-chang-e4-found-strange-rocks-from-deep-onside-moon-mantle/
Post by: Dalhousie on 05/16/2019 08:43 am
CE-4 science paper in nature
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1189-0
National Geo coverage
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/05/china-rover-chang-e4-found-strange-rocks-from-deep-onside-moon-mantle/
This discovery of possible mantle rocks by the Yutu 2 mission is something long predicted and long awaited since the discovery of the Aikin basin. It's a great achievement by the team.
Post by: Satori on 05/17/2019 02:31 pm
China Focus: Chinese lunar rover's "lucky" find could unlock secrets of moon & earth (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-05/16/c_138062999.htm)
Post by: otter on 05/29/2019 08:23 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-05/29/c_138099697.htm
Post by: Olaf on 06/10/2019 07:19 am
Post by: Phillip Clark on 06/10/2019 08:51 am
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/10/2019 04:56 pm
Post by: Olaf on 06/27/2019 07:29 am
Post by: otter on 06/27/2019 08:39 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-06/27/c_138178167.htm
Post by: Olaf on 07/09/2019 12:53 pm
Post by: Star One on 07/09/2019 01:01 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-07/09/c_138212189.htm
Post by: Phillip Clark on 07/09/2019 03:42 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/09/2019 10:29 pm
http://ddl.escience.cn/f/SuVY (http://ddl.escience.cn/f/SuVY)
(link to a PDF file of the program.) Look for full abstracts later at:
http://ldse2019.csp.escience.cn/dct/page/65580 (http://ldse2019.csp.escience.cn/dct/page/65580)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 07/10/2019 08:09 am
Quote
This image gives some impression of how Yutu-2 has driven from the Chang'e-4 lander since early January. This comes from Phil Stooke, who stitched together images from yesterday's end of lunar day 7 release.
twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1148853767271604224
Quote
The images above were taken around noon in day 7, meaning the rover has likely travelled further since then. Here's Phil's latest map, with a tentative route for later lunar days & estimated position after day 7 roving.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1148853775093944322
Quote
Despite the (slightly unusual) lack of update on Yutu-2 driving distances yesterday, it is apparent that the rover is still moving according to plan.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/10/2019 04:30 pm
Post by: Olaf on 07/27/2019 07:57 am
Post by: Olaf on 08/07/2019 03:15 pm
Post by: Olaf on 08/25/2019 09:00 pm
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/26/2019 12:03 pm
https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-news/china-change-4-mission-images-eighth-lunar-day/
Post by: Liss on 08/30/2019 07:44 pm
Quote
China's Chang'e-4 lunar rover has discovered an unusually colored, 'gel-like' substance during its exploration activities on the far side of the moon.
Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/12/2019 07:44 pm
Post by: eeergo on 09/15/2019 01:51 pm
https://www.space.com/china-far-side-moon-rover-strange-substance.htmlQuoteChina's Chang'e-4 lunar rover has discovered an unusually colored, 'gel-like' substance during its exploration activities on the far side of the moon.
More details about this: https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1173132175706865665
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/18/2019 10:09 am
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/18/2019 04:09 pm
132:13:01 Bean:
"This is a very small crater, Houston, probably about 3 feet in diameter and looks like it was made (by a) not very fast moving or energetic or heavy projectile. Yet, right in the middle of the hole is some of these glass-covered rock fragments. "
Similar fresh craters containing glass were reported on several Apollo missions.
Post by: K-P on 09/20/2019 08:35 am
More details about this: https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1173132175706865665
I guess we will soon uncover the explanation for TMA-1...?
Post by: Olaf on 09/23/2019 06:33 pm
Post by: Olaf on 10/06/2019 05:43 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/06/2019 11:19 pm
Post by: spacexplorer on 10/07/2019 08:56 pm
http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/moon/moontime.html
For offline use, Virtual Moon Atlas (https://ap-i.net/avl/it/download) (100MB download) is a Windows software which allows manually simulating sunrise/sunset moon terminator movements during time, but you have to add YUTU 2 data into Historical_uEN.csv file in database folder::
(https://i.imgur.com/qhjKYd3.png)
Yutu 2;Inert equipment / Voluntary impact;03/01/2019;Chang'e4 lander;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;177,5991;177,6° East;45,4446;45,4° South;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Sunrise: 13d 8h 43m from now (Mon Oct 21 2019 05:42:43 )
Sunset: 1d 9h 38m ago (Sun Oct 06 2019 11:21:07 GMT)
Post by: eeergo on 10/14/2019 09:36 am
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1183671913807257603
Post by: Apollo-phill on 10/14/2019 10:17 am
What are these rotations being used for ?
Exercising the wheels/bogies ?
Help in 360 degree image panoramas ? ( Does pancam not do 360 degree rotates on mast ?)
Orientating for comms sessions ?
Lunar night correct orientation for rover ?
Something else ?
Phill
Post by: Apollo-phill on 10/14/2019 11:03 am
" Making 360 degree rotations in lunar regolith ....
..just for the fun of it and leaving a "message/symbol" for future generations of humans or ' other'visitors ponder about 😂😂 " .........
Phill
UK
Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/14/2019 06:54 pm
Post by: Olaf on 10/23/2019 07:26 am
Post by: Liss on 11/04/2019 10:35 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-11/04/c_138527338.htm
Quote
China's lunar rover travels over 300 meters on moon's far side
Source: Xinhua| 2019-11-04 14:40:26|Editor: Liu
BEIJING, Nov. 4 (Xinhua) -- China's lunar rover Yutu-2 has driven 318.62 meters on the far side of the moon to conduct scientific exploration of the virgin territory.
Both the lander and the rover of the Chang'e-4 probe have ended their work for the 11th lunar day, and switched to dormant mode for the lunar night on Monday (Beijing time), according to the Lunar Exploration and Space Program Center of the China National Space Administration.
The rover is now located 218.11 meters northwest of the lander…
During the 11th lunar day of the probe on the moon, the scientific instruments on the lander and rover worked well, and a new batch of scientific detection data was sent to the core research team for analysis.
Scientists are planning the future exploration route for the rover…
According to http://www.xinhuanet.com/tech/2019-11/04/c_1125189848.htm , the Chang'e 4 lander went to sleep on Nov 4 at 06:15 Beijing time after Yutu did it at 05:16.
Post by: spacexplorer on 11/04/2019 12:33 pm
According to http://www.xinhuanet.com/tech/2019-11/04/c_1125189848.htm , the Chang'e 4 lander went to sleep on Nov 4 at 06:15 Beijing time after Yutu did it at 05:16.Just for fun/check:
This translates into 2019-11-04 - 10:15 GMT and 2019-11-04 - 09:16 GMT
Local sunset (if my page (http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/moon/moontime.html) is right): 2019-11-05 - 00:33 GMT
Sleep-to-sunset times:
Lander: 14h 18m
Rover: 15h 17m
Post by: spacexplorer on 11/04/2019 02:47 pm
COMMAND/TARGET: SUN
CENTER/OBSERVER: coord@301
TABLE TYPE: Observer
SITE_COORD: Longitude, Latitude, Altitude (km)
QUANTITIES: 4 - Apparent azimuth and elevation of target center (actually useless; useful data are first column (date) and second column (rise/transit/set)).
R_T_S_ONLY: Yes (Shows only rise/transit/set times)
For Yutu site I got these dates for 2019:
Date Time Azimuth Altitude
2019-Nov-04 22:39 s 271.6331 -0.2711
2019-Nov-19 21:24 *r 88.8002 -0.2691
2019-Nov-27 05:31 *t 359.8629 43.6989
2019-Dec-04 13:55 s 270.7724 -0.2707
2019-Dec-19 10:17 *r 89.8607 -0.2669
2019-Dec-26 20:02 *t 359.8342 44.4881
Link to results (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1?&COMMAND=%27sun%27&CENTER=%27coord@301%27&OBJ_DATA=%27yes%27&MAKE_EPHEM=%27yes%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27OBSERVER%27&REF_PLANE=%27ECLIPTIC%27&COORD_TYPE=%27GEODETIC%27&SITE_COORD=%27177.5991,-45.4446,0%27&START_TIME=%272019/11/1%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019/12/31%2023:59%27&STEP_SIZE=%271m%27&TLIST=%27%27&QUANTITIES=%274%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&VECT_TABLE=%273%27&VECT_CORR=%27NONE%27&CAL_FORMAT=%27CAL%27&ANG_FORMAT=%27HMS%27&APPARENT=%27AIRLESS%27&TIME_TYPE=%27UTC%27&TIME_DIGITS=%27MINUTES%27&TIME_ZONE=%27%27&RANGE_UNITS=%27AU%27&SUPPRESS_RANGE_RATE=%27no%27&ELEV_CUT=%27%27&SKIP_DAYLT=%27no%27&SOLAR_ELONG=%27%27&AIRMASS=%27%27&EXTRA_PREC=%27yes%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27no%27&VEC_LABELS=%27yes%27&ELM_LABELS=%27yes%27&TP_TYPE=%27ABSOLUTE%27&R_T_S_ONLY=%27YES%27&CA_TABLE_TYPE=%27STANDARD%27&TCA3SG_LIMIT=%27%27&EMAIL_ADDR=%27%27&CALIM_SB=%27%27)
Results are little different from my page, which only takes into account longitudes of observer and sun, while Horizons also takes into account observer latitude, together with many other parameters like nutation, precession, light travel time and whatelse.
There are also quantities 7 and 34 (local time), but they appear not to bepopulated (yet?).
7. Local apparent sidereal time
34. Local apparent SOLAR time
Date__(UT)__HR:MN L_Ap_Sid_Time L_Ap_SOL_Time
2019-Nov-04 22:39 s n.a. n.a.
2019-Nov-19 21:24 *r n.a. n.a.
2019-Nov-27 05:31 *t n.a. n.a.
2019-Dec-04 13:55 s n.a. n.a.
2019-Dec-19 10:17 *r n.a. n.a.
2019-Dec-26 20:02 *t n.a. n.a.
Link (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1?&COMMAND=%27sun%27&CENTER=%27coord@301%27&OBJ_DATA=%27yes%27&MAKE_EPHEM=%27yes%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27OBSERVER%27&REF_PLANE=%27ECLIPTIC%27&COORD_TYPE=%27GEODETIC%27&SITE_COORD=%27177.5991,-45.4446,0%27&START_TIME=%272019/11/1%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019/12/31%2023:59%27&STEP_SIZE=%271m%27&TLIST=%27%27&QUANTITIES=%277,34%27&FIXED_QUANTITIES=%27Custom%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&VECT_TABLE=%273%27&VECT_CORR=%27NONE%27&CAL_FORMAT=%27CAL%27&ANG_FORMAT=%27HMS%27&APPARENT=%27AIRLESS%27&TIME_TYPE=%27UTC%27&TIME_DIGITS=%27MINUTES%27&TIME_ZONE=%27%27&RANGE_UNITS=%27AU%27&SUPPRESS_RANGE_RATE=%27no%27&ELEV_CUT=%27%27&SKIP_DAYLT=%27no%27&SOLAR_ELONG=%27%27&AIRMASS=%27%27&EXTRA_PREC=%27yes%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27no%27&VEC_LABELS=%27yes%27&ELM_LABELS=%27yes%27&TP_TYPE=%27ABSOLUTE%27&R_T_S_ONLY=%27YES%27&CA_TABLE_TYPE=%27STANDARD%27&TCA3SG_LIMIT=%27%27&EMAIL_ADDR=%27%27&CALIM_SB=%27%27)
Anyway "r" (rise) translates to 06:00, "t" (transit) to 12:00 and "s" (set) translates to 18:00. Midnight is not shown.
Post by: eeergo on 11/21/2019 01:19 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1197498630371983360 (https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1197498630371983360) (lunar day 12, currently)
Post by: eeergo on 11/25/2019 01:22 pm
http://moon.bao.ac.cn/mul/index/list (click on "Moon -> 嫦娥4" on the left sidebar)
Post by: Satori on 11/26/2019 11:59 pm
Spotlight: China's Chang'e-4 mission team awarded Team Gold Medal by UK's Royal Aeronautical Society (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-11/26/c_138584904.htm).
Post by: clongton on 11/27/2019 02:12 am
From Xinhua,
Spotlight: China's Chang'e-4 mission team awarded Team Gold Medal by UK's Royal Aeronautical Society.
Well deserved.
Post by: Olaf on 12/05/2019 05:28 am
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/01/2020 07:57 pm
Post by: Rondaz on 01/02/2020 10:32 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1212759982225186823
Post by: zandr on 01/03/2020 03:24 pm
China's lunar rover travels over 357 meters on moon's far side (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-01/03/c_138676415.htm)
Post by: SMS on 01/03/2020 08:55 pm
Post by: Olaf on 01/19/2020 02:22 pm
Post by: Star One on 01/26/2020 08:18 pm
Quote
It's been just over a year since China's Chang'e 4 lander and Yutu 2 rover landed on the far side of the Moon. All this time, they've been studying the Von Kármán crater and sharing the results through a solitary link - the Queqiao relay satellite that bounces signals to Earth.
As part of the mission, the lander and rover have been taking photos. Oodles of photos. It's been a photostravaganza. And the Chinese Lunar Exploration Program has just released a new batch of data from the mission's instruments, after amassing an image library of thousands of files.
In addition to radar and infrared spectrometry data, the release includes high-resolution images of the lunar surface from Chang'e 4's landing camera and terrain camera, and Yutu 2's panoramic camera.
https://www.sciencealert.com/feast-your-eyes-on-these-stunning-new-pictures-of-the-far-side-of-the-moon
Post by: otter on 02/03/2020 12:57 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/03/c_138752489.htm
Post by: Olaf on 02/18/2020 07:17 am
Quote
The lander & Yutu-2 rover have woken up on the far side of the Moon for the start of Lunar Day 15 of the Chang'e-4 mission. Yutu-2 resumed activities at 09:55 UTC Feb. 17 & the lander following at 22:57 UTC. New image below. Source: https://weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309404473292311363923…
Post by: otter on 02/18/2020 06:22 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/18/c_138795318.htm
Post by: Star One on 02/25/2020 04:41 pm
Post by: otter on 02/27/2020 02:07 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/27/c_138822921.htm
Post by: SciNews on 02/27/2020 07:11 pm
Short interviews with Su Yan (researcher NAOC) and Li Chunlai (deputy director NAOC and lead author)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_A3DU1rY-Y
Post by: otter on 03/03/2020 03:18 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/02/c_138835455.htm
Post by: zandr on 04/01/2020 08:22 am
China's lunar rover travels over 424 meters on moon's far side (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-04/01/c_138937851.htm)
Quote
China's lunar rover Yutu-2, or Jade Rabbit-2, has driven 424.455 meters on the far side of the moon to conduct scientific exploration of the virgin territory.
Both the lander and the rover of the Chang'e-4 probe have ended their work for the 16th lunar day, and switched to dormant mode for the lunar night due to the lack of solar power...
Post by: Olaf on 04/17/2020 12:18 pm
Quote
Chang'e-4 lunar day 17 is underway on the far side of the Moon. Yutu-2 rover awoke at 12:57 UTC April 16, with the CE-4 lander following at 05:24 April 17. All systems and payloads apparently operational. New image showing the horizon from within Von Kármán crater (credit: CLEP)
Post by: Olaf on 04/30/2020 07:27 am
Quote
Far side of the Moon: Chang'e-4 mission day 17 has ended. Yutu-2 rover and Chang'e-4 lander powered down at 12:36 and 21:30 UTC April 29. Yutu-2 covered 23.23 metres during the lunar day. Two new images below (CNSA/CLEP). Source: https://weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309404499316386431055…
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 05/13/2020 01:55 pm
Quote
Chang'e-4: Sunrise over the landing site in Von Kármán crater to occur ~00:00 May 15, meaning Yutu-2 will begin lunar day 18 late that day, with the lander to follow late May 16/early 17. Yutu-2 to continue northwest of Tianhe landing site [Image: BACC].
https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1260542023393828864
Quote
Here's the latest map from planetary cartographer Phil Stooke showing the route and position of Yutu-2 to the end of day 17, which ended April 29.
Post by: eeergo on 07/01/2020 04:00 pm
Trying to summarize in order to avoid an endlessly-loading tweetpost:
Mission total odometry is nearing 500 m (>463 m now), currently in lunar day 19.
Some recent issues with wheels, but seem to be sorted.
Impact breccia melt inspections continue, along with other materials (see first linked tweet).
Lunar day 18 didn't see any roving due to ground station upgrades for Tianwen-1 (Mars), some panoramas were taken (see second linked tweet).
LRO imaged the site in January (see third linked tweet).
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1277907896643223553
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1266327124203487233
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1266327124203487233
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/01/2020 05:56 pm
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/28/2020 12:16 am
This links to a post on Weibo regarding the end of lunar day 20. Later there will be a drive diary - I will post a link to it. This is how to keep up with Chinese missions - I am in several threads in the 9ifly forum every day for Chang'E and Tianwen 1 missions. I also want to point out that there is a constant stream of papers published in Chinese and Western journals. For example, on lunar day 10 Yutu 2 drove only 5 m. Later this was explained in an abstract for LPSC and in a paper in JGR Planets: an experiment where the VNIS was calibrated for different sun angles by making repeated observations of the same spot through the morning and of a second spot in the afternoon. There is lots of information out there but it takes time to find it.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/02/2020 04:27 am
This is the drive diary for lunar day 20. I got the link from this thread on the 9ifly forum:
http://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=93232&page=4#lastpost (http://9ifly.spacety.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=93232&page=4#lastpost)
Open both in something that will translate it for you if necessary.
Post by: Blackstar on 08/07/2020 05:02 pm
https://spacenews.com/china-is-moving-ahead-with-lunar-south-pole-and-near-earth-asteroid-missions/?fbclid=IwAR3QYhelMxLHcLysdv0E6NTiqyv-ZRCiRacJ89-pNQHUY8NO49fugmgEPaw
Post by: otter on 08/14/2020 05:09 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-08/14/c_139290129.htm
BEIJING, Aug. 14 (Xinhua) -- The lander and rover of the Chang'e-4 probe have resumed work for the 21st lunar day on the far side of the moon.
The lander woke up at 14:54 Thursday (Beijing Time) while the rover awoke at 20:34 Wednesday. Both are in normal working order, according to the Lunar Exploration and Space Program Center of the China National Space Administration.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/25/2020 03:24 am
http://moon.bao.ac.cn/mul/index/list (http://moon.bao.ac.cn/mul/index/list)
This takes you to an index page which has all lunar exploration press release images on it. Click on the 'Chang'e 4' button (top of the 4 buttons at left) to get to that mission. Open in a browser which will translate it for you if required.
That used to go to 2 pages of images, now there are 4 (and one image on the 5th page). Each has a very brief caption telling you which day it was taken on. I attach one example called Companion Stones taken on day 4.
[attachment=46100:CE4_PCAM...n_stones.jpg]
Post by: otter on 08/31/2020 06:01 pm
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-08/31/c_139331737.htm
Post by: Satori on 09/08/2020 02:47 pm
China Focus: China's Chang'e-4 probe reveals landing site impact history on moon's far side (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-09/08/c_139352621.htm).
Based on data from China's Chang'e-4 probe, Chinese scientists have determined the thickness of the regolith and revealed the fine subsurface structures and evolutionary history of the probe's landing site on the moon's far side.
Post by: otter on 09/12/2020 09:05 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-09/12/c_139363440.htm
Post by: eeergo on 09/21/2020 10:09 am
Post by: Blackstar on 09/21/2020 11:44 am
https://spacenews.com/china-is-quietly-preparing-for-november-launch-of-the-change-5-lunar-sample-return-mission/
As the article notes, unlike CE-4, the sample return mission will grab its sample and launch during a single lunar day, so it will probably land and take off within a few Earth days. (My guess would be land mid-morning on the Moon, conduct operations for about five Earth days and then launch. But it could probably spend up to ten days for operations.)
If you think about it, this will mean China will have two lunar missions operating simultaneously. And although CE-3 is technically over with its mission, the spacecraft is still alive, so technically that could be considered three operational lunar surface spacecraft, not to mention the orbiting spacecraft.
Let me amend that: if you count CE-3, CE-4, CE-5 and Yutu-2, that would be four Chinese spacecraft operating on the lunar surface simultaneously.
Post by: clongton on 09/21/2020 02:15 pm
I was particularly impressed with the far-side landing communicating thru the satellite in a halo orbit at EML-2. My question for anyone who has this knowledge is how many such satellites can reasonably be supported at this location? At some point I can see a major communications network in operation there to support multiple surface operations and perhaps even a man-tended base or 2 from various space agencies.
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/21/2020 02:49 pm
While I am personally not a fan of China, I always give credit where credit is due, and the PRC certainly deserves major accolades for this.
I was particularly impressed with the far-side landing communicating thru the satellite in a halo orbit at EML-2. My question for anyone who has this knowledge is how many such satellites can reasonably be supported at this location? At some point I can see a major communications network in operation there to support multiple surface operations and perhaps even a man-tended base or 2 from various space agencies.
The Chinese relay satellite is an a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point. The orbit has a radius of about 15,000 km, so its circumference is approx. 94,250 km.
Source: https://cddis.nasa.gov/lw21/docs/2018/presentations/Session9_He_presentation.pdf
Geosynchronous orbit around the Earth has a radius of about 42,000 km, so circumference is about 263,000 km. There are currently 402 satellites in GEO orbit, and the upper limit is around 1,800. This produces an average distance between satellites in GEO of roughly 650 km currently, and at the upper limit, about 150 km.
Assuming that future L2 relay satelites would use the same orbit, and assuming a similar satellite population density in that orbit as there are in geosynchronous orbit, then it could support about 145 satellites spaced out 650 km apart, or about 628 satellites packed in at 150 km apart.
Post by: baldusi on 09/21/2020 08:03 pm
While I am personally not a fan of China, I always give credit where credit is due, and the PRC certainly deserves major accolades for this.
I was particularly impressed with the far-side landing communicating thru the satellite in a halo orbit at EML-2. My question for anyone who has this knowledge is how many such satellites can reasonably be supported at this location? At some point I can see a major communications network in operation there to support multiple surface operations and perhaps even a man-tended base or 2 from various space agencies.
AIUI, you can gave as many as you want. You have basically infinite Lissajous orbits around EML2. And they are "cheaper" to maintain.
Post by: Blackstar on 09/21/2020 10:34 pm
Assuming that future L2 relay satelites would use the same orbit, and assuming a similar satellite population density in that orbit as there are in geosynchronous orbit, then it could support about 145 satellites spaced out 650 km apart, or about 628 satellites packed in at 150 km apart.
But right now, one is enough.
An interesting question to ponder:
Assume that CE-5 is successful and China decides to send the backup, CE-6, to the South Pole-Aitken Basin. Will they use the same relay satellite they currently use for CE-4, or will they consider it necessary to launch a new one?
I think a second question is how they will do the rendezvous with the orbiter.
What has impressed me about China's robotic lunar program is that it has been very methodical. They have a clear building-block approach where they learn a lot from each mission and apply it to the next one. But they are also cautious, keeping a backup until the mission is successful, then repurposing that backup to a new mission. It is a very well-thought out program.
http://www.leonarddavid.com/china-farside-moon-exploration-update-return-sample-next/
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/23/2020 03:25 am
Post by: Blackstar on 09/23/2020 11:34 am
American scientists have long considered sample return from the Moon's South Pole-Aitken Basin to be a high science priority. We don't know if the Chinese value it as highly. But if they brought back a sample from there, it would have major scientific impact.
Post by: jacqmans on 09/26/2020 10:29 am
DLR Press Release, 25 September 2020
A German instrument on the Chinese Chang'e-4 lunar lander - How intense and dangerous is cosmic radiation on the Moon?
Full article with images: https://www.dlr.de/content/en/articles/news/2020/03/20200925_how-intense-and-dangerous-is-cosmic-radiation-on-the-moon.html
The Chang'e-4 lunar lander touched down on the far side of the Moon on 3 January 2019, with a German instrument for measuring space radiation on board. Since then, the Lunar Lander Neutron and Dosimetry (LND) instrument has been measuring temporally resolved cosmic radiation for the first time. Earlier devices could only record the entire 'mission dose'. In its current issue, the scientific journal Science Advances reports on the work of the international group of scientists involved with the LND, including researchers from the German Aerospace Center (Deutsches Zentrum fuer Luft- und Raumfahrt; DLR). Their investigations have involved more precise radiation measurements on the Moon.
"Over the coming years and decades, various nations are planning to send crewed missions to explore the Moon. Space radiation poses a significant risk to the health of humans. The Apollo astronauts carried radiation measuring devices, referred to as dosimeters, on their bodies. But these only determined the radiation exposure over the course of the entire mission," says Oliver Angerer, LND Project Manager at the DLR Space Administration. With the LND instrument it is possible to measure the various characteristics of the radiation field over time intervals of one, 10 or 60 minutes. This enables researchers to calculate the 'equivalent dose', which is important for estimating biological effects.
High radiation exposure in a spacesuit
DLR radiation physicist Thomas Berger from the DLR Institute of Aerospace Medicine, who participated in the publication explains: "The radiation exposure we measured is a good indication of the radiation inside a spacesuit. The measurements give us an equivalent dose rate – the biologically weighted radiation dose per unit of time – of around 60 microsieverts per hour. For comparison, during a long-haul flight from Frankfurt to New York, the dose rate is five to 10 times lower than this. On Earth's surface, it is some 200 times lower. In other words, a long-term stay on the Moon will expose astronauts' bodies to high doses of radiation."
"Human bodies are simply not made to be exposed to space radiation," adds Robert Wimmer-Schweingruber of the Christian-Albrecht University (CAU) in Kiel, whose team developed and built the LND instrument. "On longer missions to the Moon, astronauts will have to protect themselves from it – by covering their habitat with a thick layer of lunar rock, for example. This could reduce the risk of cancer and other illnesses caused by long periods of time spent on the Moon."
The instrument developed in Kiel conducts measurements throughout the lunar day, but like all other scientific devices on the lander, remains switched off throughout the extremely cold, approximately two-week lunar night, to save power. The instrument and lander were designed to conduct their measurements for at least one year – a target they have already surpassed. The data from the LND and the lander are transmitted to Earth via the relay satellite Queqiao ('Magpie Bridge'), which is located above the far side of the Moon.
Astronautical space exploration on the Moon and beyond
The radiation data are also relevant for future interplanetary missions. Since the Moon has neither a protective magnetic field nor an atmosphere, the radiation field on the Moon's surface is similar to that in interplanetary space. "With that in mind, the LND measurements are also used to develop computer models to calculate the expected radiation exposure, refine our models and thus contribute towards our work on radiation protection for astronauts on future missions. It is vital that the detector also allows conclusions to be drawn about the composition of the radiation field, such as how many neutrons and high energy-charged particles are present," explains Berger.
Funding
The Lunar Lander Neutron and Dosimetry (LND) instrument was developed and built at the Christian-Albrecht University of Kiel on behalf of the DLR Space Administration with funding from the German Federal Ministry of Economic Affairs and Energy (Bundesministerium fuer Wirtschaft und Energie; BMWi). The research conducted by the DLR Institute of Aerospace Medicine is supported by the Moon and Mars Exploration Studies (MoSES) project, which is part of DLR's Space Exploration Programme.
Post by: clongton on 09/26/2020 04:03 pm
Post by: Dalhousie on 09/30/2020 06:29 am
DLR radiation physicist Thomas Berger from the DLR Institute of Aerospace Medicine, who participated in the publication explains: "The radiation exposure we measured is a good indication of the radiation inside a spacesuit. The measurements give us an equivalent dose rate – the biologically weighted radiation dose per unit of time – of around 60 microsieverts per hour. For comparison, during a long-haul flight from Frankfurt to New York, the dose rate is five to 10 times lower than this. On Earth's surface, it is some 200 times lower. In other words, a long-term stay on the Moon will expose astronauts' bodies to high doses of radiation."
60 microSv/hr is only ~9.4% higher than outside the ISS (data of Dachev etal. 2017). The actual number was 57 microSv/hr, which makes it only 7.5% greater than the ISS (53 microSv/hr).
Note these are daytime numbers only, as LND shuts down overnight. Does the solar wind impact on the lunar surface at night?
Post by: Dalhousie on 09/30/2020 06:34 am
Confirms my suspicion that any viable lunar base will need to be either underground or deeply bermed. Most surface operations will need to be routinely carried out robotically. The operator can be nearby, if that is appropriate, in a rover properly protected from the CBR. Otherwise robotic operations can be carried out remotely from inside the base. Any surface operation in a spacesuit will need to be limited.
Only 7% higher than outside the ISS. Remember this is EVA exposure. ISS level protection for living areas (which cut radiation levels to about half external values) should be adequate.
A quick calculation assuming four 8 hr EVAs a month per person, that day and night are similar, and that the habitat will cut the dose to half, give annual values of 260 mSv, which is similar to to the yearly dose on the ISS in Berger et al. (2017). ISS annual doses can range as high as 400 mSv.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/05/2020 03:31 am
https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv7823956 (https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv7823956)
Post by: spacexplorer on 10/19/2020 02:25 pm
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12278-3
I tried contacting tha only authour which has an e-mail, but the email returned back with error " 550-'Requested mail action not taken: Invalid IP"
I would like to add the trajectory to my "3d tracker" page (http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html?orbiter=-85&body=@301&4dzoom=400000&start=2020-10-18&stop=2020-10-20&step=1m) (not working properly in firefox)
Post by: whitelancer64 on 10/19/2020 02:55 pm
Confirms my suspicion that any viable lunar base will need to be either underground or deeply bermed. Most surface operations will need to be routinely carried out robotically. The operator can be nearby, if that is appropriate, in a rover properly protected from the CBR. Otherwise robotic operations can be carried out remotely from inside the base. Any surface operation in a spacesuit will need to be limited.
"Deeply" is about 2 meters in this case. Two meters of compacted lunar regolith would offer approximately Earth-surface radiation protection.
Post by: otter on 10/31/2020 09:50 am
https://weibo.com/6528178851/Jriz00Dk6
Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/04/2020 12:49 am
This link is to the latest drive diary. Lots of interesting information - they didn't get to the big rock on the far rim of the crater so they settled for an analysis of a smaller rock which was easier to reach. The crater has a name: Longtan or 'Dragon Pool' (a park in Beijing, though the name is used in many other places as well). Software for the neutral atom detector was updated.
There is also mention of the rock analyzed on the third lunar day. It was given a name in several publications during the last year - Qi Yuan, or Unexpected Encounter (a bit of ejecta from the crater Finsen). Oddly, Chrome translates the characters for Qi Yuan as 'Romania' for me. If anyone can throw any light on that I would be pleased to know more. These two names are the only ones I am aware of, though the title of a released image gives another name, 'Companion Stones' for a pair of stones seen on approximately the 5th day. Whether that should be treated as a placename is not really clear but I have used it on my map.
Post by: wahaha on 11/04/2020 11:40 pm
https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv8125931 (https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv8125931)
There is also mention of the rock analyzed on the third lunar day. It was given a name in several publications during the last year - Qi Yuan, or Unexpected Encounter (a bit of ejecta from the crater Finsen). Oddly, Chrome translates the characters for Qi Yuan as 'Romania' for me. If anyone can throw any light on that I would be pleased to know more. These two names are the only ones I am aware of, though the title of a released image gives another name, 'Companion Stones' for a pair of stones seen on approximately the 5th day. Whether that should be treated as a placename is not really clear but I have used it on my map.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/05/2020 06:19 am
Post by: otter on 11/10/2020 04:05 am
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-11/10/c_139505455.htm
Post by: SciNews on 12/01/2020 03:42 pm
http://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1168
"Arrows indicate Yutu-2 (left) and Chang'e 4 lander (right). Rover tracks are faintly visible between the lander and Yutu-2. LROC image acquired 18 October 2020, M1357657468LR, enlarged 2x."
Image credit:NASA/GSFC/Arizona State University
Post by: otter on 02/07/2021 08:13 am
China's Chang'e-4 probe resumes work for 27th lunar day
2021-02-07 14:27:23
BEIJING, Feb. 7 (Xinhua) -- The lander and rover of the Chang'e-4 probe have resumed work for their 27th lunar day on the far side of the moon.
The lander activated at 4:48 p.m. on Saturday (Beijing time), and the rover Yutu-2, or Jade Rabbit-2, activated at 4:26 a.m. also on Saturday, according to the Lunar Exploration and Space Program Center of the China National Space Administration.
Yutu-2 has traveled about 628.5 meters on the far side of the moon. It is currently located about 430 meters northwest of the landing site.
Post by: newfrontiers on 02/14/2021 06:15 pm
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 02/15/2021 12:54 am
https://twitter.com/cosmic_penguin/status/1361129319171383301?s=21
https://twitter.com/cosmic_penguin/status/1361129320941379589?s=21
https://twitter.com/cosmic_penguin/status/1361129322673676288?s=21
https://twitter.com/cosmic_penguin/status/1361129324410146818?s=21
https://twitter.com/cosmic_penguin/status/1361129326813487104?s=21
https://twitter.com/cosmic_penguin/status/1361129328868646913?s=21
Post by: otter on 02/15/2021 10:09 am
China's Yutu 2 rover finds 'milestone' on far side of the moon
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/16/2021 07:07 am
Post by: otter on 03/08/2021 09:45 am
China's Chang'e-4 probe resumes work for 28th lunar day
Post by: eeergo on 03/21/2021 10:05 pm
Quote
this study believes that the stones observed by the "Yutu-2" lunar rover actually originated from the ancient Finsen impact crater. They were originally buried in the lunar soil in the landing area. Later, they were impacted by the spatter of the Vega impact crater. Excavated and exposed to the moon's surface. The dating of the Vega crater reveals that these rocks have existed on the lunar surface for about 16 million years
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/ZFOZRXt8bDC5HPE7z3985A
Post by: otter on 04/07/2021 09:28 am
China's Chang'e-4 probe resumes work for 29th lunar day
Post by: newfrontiers on 09/04/2021 02:17 pm
Post by: luhai167 on 12/01/2021 06:05 pm
Letter
Published: 25 November 2021
Impact remnants rich in carbonaceous chondrites detected on the Moon by the Chang’e-4 rover
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-021-01530-w
Abstract
The Moon has experienced an intense bombardment history since its formation1. Fragments of the impactor can remain on the lunar surface2,3,4 and can provide evidence of the evolution of the impactor composition and impact population in the Earth–Moon system3,4,5. However, the retained impactor fragments previously identified in the Apollo samples have been well mixed into bulk lunar regolith due to the subsequent impact gardening, and their properties cannot be easily isolated3,6,7. Here we report observations of a two-metre-sized crater that formed less than one million years ago obtained by the Yutu-2 rover of Chang’e-4. Hyperspectral images in the visible and near-infrared range (0.45–0.945 μm) with a spatial resolution less than 1 mm per pixel highlight the presence of glassy material with high concentration (47%) of carbonaceous chondrites. We identify this material as remnants of the original impactor that was not entirely vaporized by the impact. Although carbonaceous chondrite fragments have been found in Apollo samples8,9, no carbonaceous chondrite remnant had been directly observed on the lunar surface by remote sensing exploration. We suggest that carbonaceous chondrite-like bodies may still provide one of the sources of water to the present Moon.
Post by: Star One on 12/07/2021 10:11 am
https://youtu.be/4fZ8ceFJwqI
Quote
NEWS: Mysterious cube-shaped anomaly discovered on the moon's far side by Chinese rover
The rover will spend the next 2-3 months verifying it
https://twitter.com/latestinspace/status/1467609634823454720
Post by: deadman1204 on 12/07/2021 02:24 pm
Post by: Blackstar on 12/07/2021 06:06 pm
https://www.leonarddavid.com/chinas-moon-rover-case-closed-on-mystery-house/
Dang. I was hoping for aliens.
Post by: deadman1204 on 12/07/2021 08:31 pm
It's not aliens:Aliens would be awesome. However, I require at least moderate photoshop skills, which this video even lacks ;D
https://www.leonarddavid.com/chinas-moon-rover-case-closed-on-mystery-house/
Dang. I was hoping for aliens.
Post by: Star One on 12/08/2021 06:33 am
please dont post this garbage hereBeing as that’s what Chinese state media called it I find your comment baffling. Maybe try checking your facts first before jumping in with both feet.
Post by: RonM on 12/08/2021 04:09 pm
The mods need to delete this whole pile of crap, and I'm confused about why they haven't yet.
Did you click on 'report to moderator'? The mods are very busy and need help, so it's up to us to report posts we think are inappropriate. If you do report posts, it's possible they don't agree with you and leave the posts as is.
Post by: Blackstar on 12/08/2021 05:06 pm
Let it burn out.
Everybody just needs to chill.
Post by: Star One on 12/08/2021 07:01 pm
Everybody can just settle down. This is only six posts, it's not a flame war. And you don't need to go complain to mommy and daddy (the mods) to delete things you don't like.Just to clarify when I was referring to what the Chinese state media reported it was purely their calling it a ‘mystery hut’. Which I would think is short hand for them saying whatever the object is it’s a hut shape, not that it’s a hut.
Let it burn out.
Everybody just needs to chill.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/08/2021 08:49 pm
Post by: luhai167 on 12/13/2021 10:59 pm
Post by: centaurinasa on 12/25/2021 04:34 pm
Post by: Blackstar on 01/07/2022 07:12 pm
I was hoping for aliens.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/07/science/moon-cube-china-rover.html
Moon Cube Mystery: Chinese Rover Finds It’s Just a Rock
A blurry image that China’s space program had called the “mystery hut” was a result of camera angle, light and shadow.
By Kenneth Chang
Jan. 7, 2022Updated 12:59 p.m. ET
Last November, China’s Yutu-2 lunar rover spotted something curious on the far side of the moon. The image was blurry, but it was unmistakable: The object looked like a cube sitting on the moon’s surface. Its shape looked too precise to be just a moon rock — perhaps something left by visiting aliens like the monolith in Arthur C. Clarke’s “2001: A Space Odyssey.”
China’s space authorities called it the “mystery hut.” Others called it the “moon cube.” Yutu-2 was sent for a closer look, and at the leisurely speed the rover is capable of traveling, it took weeks to get up close.
On Friday, Our Space, a Chinese language science channel affiliated with China National Space Administration, posted an update. There is no monolith, no secret base on the rim of a lunar crater. Close up, it turns out to be just a rock. The seemingly perfect geometric shape was just a trick of angle, light and shadow.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/08/2022 12:05 am
Post by: edzieba on 01/08/2022 12:50 pm
Post by: Star One on 01/10/2022 10:14 am
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 01/10/2022 08:37 pm
Other than the most gullible did anyone seriously expect it to be anything other than a rock.
No. But there appears to be a lot of gullible people. Possibly because the word 'gullible' does not appear in the dictionary! ;)
Post by: Star One on 01/11/2022 06:20 am
It does with that spelling in the UK?Other than the most gullible did anyone seriously expect it to be anything other than a rock.
No. But there appears to be a lot of gullible people. Possibly because the word 'gullible' does not appear in the dictionary! ;)
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 01/11/2022 10:13 pm
It does with that spelling in the UK?Other than the most gullible did anyone seriously expect it to be anything other than a rock.
No. But there appears to be a lot of gullible people. Possibly because the word 'gullible' does not appear in the dictionary! ;)
It's a joke, based on the word's meaning! 🙂
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/23/2022 08:17 pm
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scirobotics.abj6660 (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scirobotics.abj6660)
Post by: eeergo on 03/01/2022 02:54 pm
https://twitter.com/BadAstronomer/status/1498683547518914564
Post by: rsnellenberger on 03/01/2022 06:09 pm
Would you look at that...Not surprising... see this link for pictures of Apollo 11 and 16 regolith samples showing 1-2mm impact-glass spherules.
https://twitter.com/BadAstronomer/status/1498683547518914564
https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/lunar-regolith-breccias-and-fragmental-breccias/ (https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/lunar-regolith-breccias-and-fragmental-breccias/)
Post by: eeergo on 03/01/2022 06:18 pm
Would you look at that...Not surprising... see this link for pictures of Apollo 11 and 16 regolith samples showing 1-2mm impact-glass spherules.
https://twitter.com/BadAstronomer/status/1498683547518914564 (https://twitter.com/BadAstronomer/status/1498683547518914564)
https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/lunar-regolith-breccias-and-fragmental-breccias/ (https://sites.wustl.edu/meteoritesite/items/lunar-regolith-breccias-and-fragmental-breccias/)
I did not know that, thanks for digging that up! Still mesmerizing, and these appear substantially larger by a factor of >10x...
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/01/2022 08:01 pm
Search for 'glass sphere' in the Apollo 16 Preliminary Science Report:
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html)
The samples are 60095 and 65016.
Post by: rsnellenberger on 03/01/2022 08:06 pm
Glass microspherules are ubiquitous in lunar regoliths. A better analog of the Yutu 2 spheres is the pair of glass balls, each several centimeters across, returned by Apollo 16.I saw those, but they were so large that I thought they might have come from a large rock that had been "turned and polished" somehow for some scientific study...
Search for 'glass sphere' in the Apollo 16 Preliminary Science Report:
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html)
The samples are 60095 and 65016.
Post by: Blackstar on 03/01/2022 08:57 pm
Glass microspherules are ubiquitous in lunar regoliths. A better analog of the Yutu 2 spheres is the pair of glass balls, each several centimeters across, returned by Apollo 16.
Search for 'glass sphere' in the Apollo 16 Preliminary Science Report:
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html)
The samples are 60095 and 65016.
See a and b here:
Post by: Dalhousie on 03/07/2022 02:57 am
Glass microspherules are ubiquitous in lunar regoliths. A better analog of the Yutu 2 spheres is the pair of glass balls, each several centimeters across, returned by Apollo 16.
Search for 'glass sphere' in the Apollo 16 Preliminary Science Report:
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16psr.html)
The samples are 60095 and 65016.
I agree. BTW regolith, like sheep is its own plural.
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/07/2022 03:02 am
Post by: Blackstar on 03/07/2022 06:48 pm
https://www.leonarddavid.com/chinas-mars-sample-return-next-moon-probes-discussed/
Post by: luhai167 on 07/07/2022 05:27 am
Post by: Star One on 07/15/2022 04:06 pm
https://youtu.be/WBnkZzEqLxM
Post by: Blackstar on 11/25/2022 01:02 pm
CE-5 already flew and was a sample return mission.
CE-6 is due to fly in the next couple of years, and will be a sample return mission to the South Pole Aiken Basin.
So these slides detail CE-7 and CE-8.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/1596048713280933888
Post by: shiro on 01/03/2023 05:07 am
Quote
Finally, official update of Yutu-2 Rover on the fourth anniversary of Chang'e-4 landing on the far side of the Moon: surveying distance passed 1455m. Previous update was 1300m in September of 2022. But, still waiting for the release of new lunar images and the map of driving.
(Source: CNSpaceflight on Twitter)
https://twitter.com/cnspaceflight/status/1610146643432861696
Post by: shiro on 01/03/2023 12:09 pm
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1610254052629090304
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 01/21/2023 06:39 am
Quote
Update of Yutu-2 Rover on the eve of year of rabbit 🐰:
Yutu-2 woke up on January 15 to start the survey of the 51st lunar day. 1455.2m driving distance in the previous 50 lunar days.
Pic 2&3 are images taken on January 18
Post by: Star One on 01/24/2023 07:52 pm
https://youtu.be/cbi7jlIlkeI
Post by: otter on 02/17/2023 08:35 am
https://english.news.cn/20230217/78ab084ba2cc410fa9d2b70405068365/c.html
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/18/2023 06:30 am
https://moon.bao.ac.cn/ (https://moon.bao.ac.cn/)
('bao' is the Beijing Astronomical Observatory)
You can register as a user and download data including science images, and there are many other things to explore on that website including press release images.
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/29/2023 08:39 am
Quote
Finally, CNSA updated Yutu-2 rover's driving trajectory on far side of the moon.
🌕#HappyMidAutumnFestival
Quote
And a panoramic view from Yutu-2
wx3.sinaimg.cn/large/002TLsr9…