NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
NASA Shuttle Specific Sections => Atlantis (Post STS-135, T&R) => Topic started by: jacqmans on 09/13/2006 03:24 am
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Five minutes to crew wakeup for FD5.
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Crew wakeup call being sent. Like the classic rock!
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lol , appropriate tune I guess for the wakeup call
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It's not the fisrt time they've used it, I'm sure. I take it no one keeps a database of what songs have been used over the years?
And speaking for my countrymen, "Takin' Care of Business" is one of the few Canadian songs that EVERYONE knows. Steve would be proud. :)
Mark
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FD5 execute package: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/157521main_fd05_ex_pkg.pdf
Congratulations on yesterday's flawless P3/P4 installation and a perfectly executed EVA!
We hope you all had a refreshing night and wish you the very best for today's EVA 2!
The MMT crew summary, though not containing any information we haven't seen, confirms the latest on the lost bolt:
SARJ Launch Lock Cover 21 Captive Bolt - The bolt/spring that was lost
overboard in the zenith direction past covers 20, 19, and 18 was thought to be traveling
toward the plus V-bar. Preliminary relative motion analysis predicts a slow opening rate
to ~10 miles in front of the stack by FD6. More details will be provided as they become
available.
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EVA 2 is now underway.
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Astronauts on their way to the thermal covers, to remove the remaining launch locks.
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Getting some live views at last
Edit: I would delete this duplicate image, but the forum doesn't want to let me and instead tells me I must attach an image when I click delete!
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I see now that the helmet cams have numbers in the lower right corner like other NASA cams around the pad for example. Would be nice with stripes on the gloves too anyway :)
Cam 16 is Dan Burbank
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The first launch lock for today has been removed.
And the thermal cover is being placed back into position.
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Just for background information, there are 16 launch locks and 10 launch restraints. I can't recall exactly how many Piper and Tanner removed yesterday, but I guess it was 3-4... so, there must be about 10 locks left... correct me if I'm wrong :)
After they remove all the locks and restraints, the astronauts must deploy the SARJ brace beams, to rigidize the structure.
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Both have to remove 7 launch locks. So Heide und Joe removed 2 launch locks yesterday.
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Ok thanks! :)
Meanwhile, in orbit:
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Mmm... they're passing almost over my head in some minutes... I'll wave at them! :)
By the way, PAO guy just said they're going a bit ahead of schedule!
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2 launch locks out of 7 have been removed by each astronauts already.
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Now, only 3 are left to remove by each astronaut.
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One bolt missing ...
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Sunrise.
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What astronauts really love on spacewalks?
Take photos of each other ;-)
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They are amazing though yes!
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Releasing the last restraints now...
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Somebody sent me a question regarding something he heard on NASA TV yesterday, that needs at least an explanation:
"Commander Pavel Vinogradov report[ed] Unknown Object to Mission Control yesterday around 12:35 pm Central Time as the ISS/Shuttle Atlantis was passing over Africa...
He said in Russian and it was translated over the Air on NASA T.V. , " We have an unknown object. We don't know what it is ... If no one knows what it is ... then no one cares. Do you have any questions ? "
Mission Control answered , " No questions."
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At least Tanner has MacLean in his "lost bolt boat" with him now. ;) Great images coming down.
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"The bolt/spring that was lost overboard in the zenith direction past covers 20, 19, and 18 was thought to be traveling
toward the plus V-bar. Preliminary relative motion analysis predicts a slow opening rate to ~10 miles in front of the stack by FD6. "
Wow. Somebody is confused about orbital mechanics, or at least in writing about it.
If the separation rate was towards the + V-bar, the bolt had higher orbital energy than the ISS, and would slip into a higher, slower orbit and drift back down the minus V-bar for awhile until differential drag -- of an unpredictable direction because the bolt is so dense -- dominated.
A slow PLUS V-bar drift now would only result from the initial separation being backwards into a lower-energy orbit.
I suspect the trajectory people understand this, but the write-up people abbreviated the explanation.
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I haven't been able to listen to all the audio myself (work colleagues would not appreciate...) but Bill Harwood has just reported that Steve MacLean has also lost a bolt, on cover 8 - this time without seeing it get away. He apparently then removed the just-attached cover and confirmed that the washer had gone too.
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Bolt info from last night's MMT on L2:
SARJ Launch Lock Cover 21, captive bolt
–Joe reported at 255/14:11 one of the inboard bolts was not captive.
–The bolt/spring overboard in the zenith direction past covers 20, 19, and 18 and the washer going toward V-bar.
–Suspect it all cleared the stack, but Joe was not positive.
–He looked where it could have lodged if it didn’t head out into space in his opinion and it was not there.
–Relative motion:
•Preliminary analysis predicts a slow opening rate to ~10 miles by FD6.
•More detailed modeling through EOM in work.
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Is this the same bolt than yesterday by Joe Tanner??????
Was it bigger or smaller?
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SWL-CHMY - 13/9/2006 8:03 AM
Is this the same bolt than yesterday by Joe Tanner??????
Was it bigger or smaller?
Same kind of bolt/washer/spring. Different cover.
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thanks for answer
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Some trivia answers from last night's On Orbit Status Report...
"It was (EVA-1) the 70th spacewalk for ISS assembly & maintenance and the 23rd from the “Quest” Airlock. After today's spacewalk, 44 NASA astronauts, 13 Russians and four astronauts representing Japan , Canada , France and Germany have logged 424 hours 43 minutes outside the station on building and maintaining it."
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So, 3 out of 6 launch restraints already removed... and no problems but the bolt and a change in the screwdriver. Nice :)
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Did I hear that good, that they were talking about something drifting away....??
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Chris Bergin - 13/9/2006 3:21 PM
Some trivia answers from last night's On Orbit Status Report...
"It was (EVA-1) the 70th spacewalk for ISS assembly & maintenance and the 23rd from the “Quest” Airlock. After today's spacewalk, 44 NASA astronauts, 13 Russians and four astronauts representing Japan , Canada , France and Germany have logged 424 hours 43 minutes outside the station on building and maintaining it."
So after today's spacewalk (EVA-2) it is:
71 spacewalks for ISS assembly.
24 from "Quest" airlock.
45 NASA Astronauts performd an ISS EVA.
2 from Canada.
1 from Japan.
1 from France.
1 from Germany.
And totaling some 432 hours (estimated)
Does anyone have the numbers on "Pirs" EVA's ?, and Shuttle EVA's ??
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Great comment from the BBC News presenter, after they went live to show EVA-2.
"Can we take the afternoon off and just stay with these pictures".
Doesn't matter who sees it, always seems to get that response. Brilliant.
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How many astronauts does it take to unscrew a bolt....
3...
2 outside and 1 inside :-)
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1 to go...
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Can someone recap what happened with that difficult bolt.. I was multitasking. PAO commentary did not shed more light...
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The guys that are hard-working out there:
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The station is a bit tilted towards Earth, isn't it?
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Last launch restraint has been removed!
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The best call I heard go by as Burbank and MacLean were working on removing the stuck bolt from the launch restraint:
"If you break it, mission accomplished."
It made me laugh pretty hard, as it was NOT something I was expecting to hear as they were struggling with a mind-bogglingly expensive piece of equipment.
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They're already working on get ahead tasks. First one: clear the railway of launch restraints!
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slipstream - 13/9/2006 10:09 AM
1 minute to sunset
Why this post? It happens every 90 minutes (3-5 times during the spacewalk)
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There goes the MT railway stop:
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Anyone got information on the just reference DLA Issues? Context was "No Exercise for the next 30 minutes because of DLA issues"
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Drive Lock Assembly is the only EVA/ISS reference that includes that reference on first search. Make sense?
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I was thinking perhaps the tasks the spacewalkers are doing right now have something to do with the call. The commentator just said they were working with something called D...L..., but I can't recall what it was (have to sleep more, I know :) ) Any ideas?
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They don't want the crew in the ISS to do any exercise since it causes the whole station to vibrate and shake, which might interfere with xxx operation
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"The sun is reading... no... the sun is rising" :)
Burbank
Edit: by the way, they're removing the keel pin right now!
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Another task performed: keel pin has been secured inside the truss segment!
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Next tasks: removing some PFR from the railway and some thermal shrouds. These guys are inexhaustible!
(Temporary edit: I'm taking a break; so if someone would post some illustrating images for the thread... :) )
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I heard this too. But as I recall I think he was talking about something inside ISS. Something that was there (and shouldn't be there) and he didn't know what it was.
Directly after that I posted a comment in the topic saying 'do these Russians know what they are doing?'...
JimO - 13/9/2006 2:27 PM
Somebody sent me a question regarding something he heard on NASA TV yesterday, that needs at least an explanation:
"Commander Pavel Vinogradov report[ed] Unknown Object to Mission Control yesterday around 12:35 pm Central Time as the ISS/Shuttle Atlantis was passing over Africa...
He said in Russian and it was translated over the Air on NASA T.V. , " We have an unknown object. We don't know what it is ... If no one knows what it is ... then no one cares. Do you have any questions ? "
Mission Control answered , " No questions."
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Is the SARJ ACTIVATION AND CHECKOUT still on time (in about 5 minutes)? Are we going to see some rotation?
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When will be the SARJ activation and checkout?
Edit: Oh, at the same time posted. ^^
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I don't know if anyone else caught this but I've heard at least 2 Monty Python lines during the EVA (I believe from MacLean) ""and there was much rejoicing." and "Five would be right out!" Perhaps he's a Python fan. I just found that amusing.
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Makes you wonder if they saw a killer rabbit floating around the station ;)
On a serious note, will the get ahead tasks bump the deployment of the arrays as well or is that a time specific event?
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Yay for grail quotes from space :) See us British do have an influence on manned spaceflight.
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zerm - 13/9/2006 4:26 PM
I don't know if anyone else caught this but I've heard at least 2 Monty Python lines during the EVA (I believe from MacLean) ""and there was much rejoicing." and "Five would be right out!" Perhaps he's a Python fan. I just found that amusing.
"We are the space walkers who say ni!" - although I think I heard MCC correct them to "Ecky, Ecky, Ecky, P'tang, Zoo Boing! Goodem-zoo-owli-zhiv." ;)
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They sure won't be testing the SARJ with anyone floating nearby.
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 11:43 AM
They sure won't be testing the SARJ with anyone floating nearby.
Yeah, the golf stunt isn't scheduled for a few more months
{Thwock!} McClean? McClean?!?
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But the checkout should be during this EVA, or not? When something is wrong with the SARJ then Burbank and MacLean could repair it.
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Kylie said the EVA was running a little longer because of the get-ahead tasks. I guess the SARJ activation will be done when they are inside the airlock.
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No way they could do any repair on this EVA since they're already approaching 7 hrs (and still need to do airlock entry procedures).
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Also, I would guess MCC will want good Ku for any test.
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 11:51 AM
No way they could do any repair on this EVA since they're already approaching 7 hrs (and still need to do airlock entry procedures).
What is the time limit on an EVA? I recall reading that the American suits can top up O2 at the airlock if their exertion level causes them to go through their air too quickly.
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They can't recharge in the airlock but can go on umbilical
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SARJ activation and checkout is expected after EVA-2. And by the way, in yesterday's thread there was some discussion over whether or not could the SARJ be fully rotated because of possible clearance issues with Z1.
Well, according to the Press Kit, the SARJ will be rotated 360º + 180º to position the PVR towards Earth.
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I don't think they like going above 7 hrs if possible. Not because of the suit but from fatigue issues - when you start getting tired there's a greater chance of making mistakes.
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eeergo - 13/9/2006 10:58 AM
SARJ activation and checkout is expected after EVA-2. And by the way, in yesterday's thread there was some discussion over whether or not could the SARJ be fully rotated because of possible clearance issues with Z1.
Well, according to the Press Kit, the SARJ will be rotated 360º + 180º to position the PVR towards Earth.
The arrays will still be locked in the canisters while doing the SARJ test.
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 6:02 PM
eeergo - 13/9/2006 10:58 AM
SARJ activation and checkout is expected after EVA-2. And by the way, in yesterday's thread there was some discussion over whether or not could the SARJ be fully rotated because of possible clearance issues with Z1.
Well, according to the Press Kit, the SARJ will be rotated 360º + 180º to position the PVR towards Earth.
The arrays will still be locked in the canisters while doing the SARJ test.
Oh, I didn't realize that :) You're right, of course.
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And can the SARJ rotate with different speed or only with sun tracking speed?
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STS-Chris - 13/9/2006 11:11 AM
And can the SARJ rotate with different speed or only with sun tracking speed?
That's a good question. I'm sure there's an rpm limit but I haven't seen any details published about it.
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I noticed those calls as well. I thought it was a bit strange to hear that the view was from MacLean while the other astronaut in view had a Canadian flag on his arm ;)
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Ground controlers are currently checking out the SARJ.
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A bit odd indeed :)
About EVA length, didn't the last HST repair mission include a 10.5 hr EVA?
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The SARJ is going to turn 5 degrees! :)
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Brent see the motion from inside the ISS
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I believe Jim Voss & Susan Helms hold the U.S. EVA record at 8h 56m. STS 101, I think.
Edit - STS 102 March 11, 2001.
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Is it me or have the Beta Gimbals rotated by about 45 degrees?
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Celebrimbor - 13/9/2006 7:09 PM
Is it me or have the Beta Gimbals rotated by about 45 degrees?
I think the angle towards the sun has changed. So only the lighting changed.
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The station just entered the night-side so the rest of the SARJ rotations will be in the dark.
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Celebrimbor - 13/9/2006 12:09 PM
Is it me or have the Beta Gimbals rotated by about 45 degrees?
Only 5° for the first test. You can tell how much by looking at the launch lock bars - they were in line, now just a bit off.
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 7:21 PM
Celebrimbor - 13/9/2006 12:09 PM
Is it me or have the Beta Gimbals rotated by about 45 degrees?
Only 5° for the first test. You can tell how much by looking at the launch lock bars - they were in line, now just a bit off.
That's weird, Kylie tells us they are rotating the SARJ but I think you are right.
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Waiting for daylight + good Ku, maybe? MCC will also probably alert the crew again just before movement begins, too.
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Remind me why ISS is tilted so far to port (left). Great spacewalk today!
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I read it's so the still folded solar arrays are exposed to sunlight as much as possible (and not shadowed by other station parts) to help deployment.
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 12:44 PM
I read it's so the still folded thermal blankets are exposed to sunlight as much as possible (and not shadowed by other station parts) to help deployment.
As I figured. Just wasn't sure. Thanks! Yeah they definitely don't want to have those solar cells stick together like they did last time!
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SARJ rotation just announced to crew!
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Rotate!!
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I just saw something fly out of the P4 truss on NASATV while they were telling the crew about the rotation. Anyone else confirm?
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SARJ is rotating. Slowly, about 4-5°/sec
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That's just amazing...
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Looks like it's come to a stop.
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Tommorow will be the big day, with the P4 Solar Array Wings being deployed.
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It's at the 0° position, where it can deploy the radiator during tomorrow's EVA.
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I just might stay up and watch this last EVA. This mission is definitely rapid-fire style. Launch, dock, install, walk, walk, walk, transfer, transfer, transfer, undock, brake for home. What time is array deployment scheduled to begin?
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The camera views of Earth in future will pretty much be dominated by the deployed solar arrays.
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The initial partial deploy is supposed to occur sometime this evening, then the rest of the way tomorrow (I'm not sure if it's before or after the radiator deploy).
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 1:05 PM
The initial partial deploy is supposed to occur sometime this evening, then the rest of the way tomorrow (I'm not sure if it's before or after the radiator deploy).
Awesome. To what extent will they be deployed tonight?
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I'm happy the Sarge and his Joint are working ;)
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 8:00 PM
It's at the 0° position, where it can deploy the radiator during tomorrow's EVA.
No EVA tommorw.
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nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 8:07 PM
MKremer - 13/9/2006 1:05 PM
The initial partial deploy is supposed to occur sometime this evening, then the rest of the way tomorrow (I'm not sure if it's before or after the radiator deploy).
Awesome. To what extent will they be deployed tonight?
1 bay on each SAW.
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DaveS - 13/9/2006 1:16 PM
nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 8:07 PM
MKremer - 13/9/2006 1:05 PM
The initial partial deploy is supposed to occur sometime this evening, then the rest of the way tomorrow (I'm not sure if it's before or after the radiator deploy).
Awesome. To what extent will they be deployed tonight?
1 bay on each SAW.
How long is a bay?
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nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 8:20 PM
How long is a bay?
About 1 ft if I recall correctly.
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Oh, yeah, I kinda forgot there's no EVA tomorrow - it's Friday. :P
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OK, so apparently the SARJ will make another, full 360° rotation in the opposite direction, later on this evening/tonight. Wish they would have given some idea around what time.
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Each array is around 50yds and there are 31 bays per array (if I remember correctly). Therefore, each bay is about 3-5 ft or ~1-1.5m.
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FORWARD SOLAR ARRAY DEPLOY TO ONE MAST BAY 23:00
AFT SOLAR ARRAY DEPLOY TO ONE MAST BAY 3:05
FORWARD SOLAR ARRAY HALFWAY DEPLOYMENT BEGINS 7:50
FORWARD SOLAR ARRAY FINAL DEPLOYMENT BEGINS 8:30
AFT SOLAR ARRAY HALFWAY DEPLOYMENT BEGINS 9:30
AFT SOLAR ARRAY FINAL DEPLOYMENT BEGINS 10:10
All times GMT, Source http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/mission_schedule.html 115 link
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I don't know if this has been discussed, but what is the normal sun tracking mode once they are operational (i.e., after assembly complete). They will move roughly 180 degrees tracking during a 45 minute daylight pass... but then what? Do they just continue rotating in the same direction and speed (i.e., tracking the sun through the earth) until they are back in position for sunrise? ... or do they slew back to the sunrise starting position the way they came? If they reverse back to the starting position for sunrise, does that take 45 minutes or is it done faster?
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RedSky - 13/9/2006 3:11 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed, but what is the normal sun tracking mode once they are operational (i.e., after assembly complete). They will move roughly 180 degrees tracking during a 45 minute daylight pass... but then what? Do they just continue rotating in the same direction and speed (i.e., tracking the sun through the earth) until they are back in position for sunrise? ... or do they slew back to the sunrise starting position the way they came? If they reverse back to the starting position for sunrise, does that take 45 minutes or is it done faster?
I don't know if this helps...but remember that the arrays don't have to face the sun directly to generate power.
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RedSky - 13/9/2006 10:11 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed, but what is the normal sun tracking mode once they are operational (i.e., after assembly complete). They will move roughly 180 degrees tracking during a 45 minute daylight pass... but then what? Do they just continue rotating in the same direction and speed (i.e., tracking the sun through the earth) until they are back in position for sunrise? ... or do they slew back to the sunrise starting position the way they came? If they reverse back to the starting position for sunrise, does that take 45 minutes or is it done faster?
The solar arrays will continue turning even on the night-side. This also generates less vibration which is imortant for all kinds of expiriments.
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The alpha joint will rotate continuously at four degrees per minute and "track the sun through the earth." Picture a Mississippi River paddlewheel steamer. The beta gimbal rotates to present the maximum surface area to the sun.
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That's right, it's much easier on the station and array hardware to keep continuously tracking through darkness than to stop and restart every hour or so for each orbit.
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Thanks, guys. That's what I wanted to know. Reminds me of my old 6" reflector telescope with clock drive. Except that was a 24hr day... not 90 minutes. As a kid, I remember one night I was out with the scope and came indoors, got distracted by something, forgot about it and went to bed. The next morning, leaving for school and seeing the scope outside pointed down into the ground and thinking... Oh, I guess thats where M13 is now.
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RedSky - 13/9/2006 3:48 PM
The next morning, leaving for school and seeing the scope outside pointed down into the ground and thinking... Oh, I guess thats where M13 is now.
Funny! :)
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Another SARJ-related question: I read somewhere that it didn't need to 'unwind', so how are the cables and pipes installed to allow that and not twist?
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I guess they use slip rings (http://www.polysci.com/SlipRings/slipring.html)
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Any word on the debris sighting from P/4 I read about earlier?
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nacnud - 13/9/2006 4:47 PM
I guess they use slip rings (http://www.polysci.com/SlipRings/slipring.html)
Yes, they do. Also, no pipes needed - cooling is internal to P4 (like S4, P6, and S6) and only needs power/data lines.
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Thanks for the info guys, I was really curious about it :)
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nacnud - 13/9/2006 5:47 PM
I guess they use slip rings (http://www.polysci.com/SlipRings/slipring.html)
NASA is calling them "roll ring assemblies." The first I ever heard of this technology being applied to spaceflight was for the Galileo mission to Jupiter. Part of Galileo was three-axis stabilized and part rotated.
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4A mast deploy coming up at 7 pm ET ? I guess that's why they aborted the FD highlights newsreel.
7:10 - Very weird. The deploy is occuring but they are not showing it. You can see the shadows moving.
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lcs - 14/9/2006 1:09 AM
7:10 - Very weird. The deploy is occuring but they are not showing it. You can see the shadows moving.
Eh, that could be because the station itself is moving relative to the sun, kinda like shadows here on Earth.
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I wonder why they wouldn't show it :( Man I think I'm gonna be up late tonight watchin' these things deploy. Can you say Dr. Pepper?!
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A problem has been noted with SARJ drive lock assembly. It is being evaluated by ground teams.
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PAO says there's an issue with (I think) one of the drive lock assemblies; they are troubleshooting.
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I think the truss is still in the wrong oreantation ...
Yes, on NASA TV: The SARJ has a problem and is in hold. So the deploy of the arrays is in hold too.
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Maybe they have a screw loose...
It's strange that the first word of this is when the deploy is scheduled, the SARJ must have been out of alignment since the test rotations.
I guess they have some EVA time to fix it if necessary, although it might mean there's no time for EVA support after full deployment.
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Did they send a bad command or what? Must be an Aggie at the controls ;)
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Is anyone else but me thinking on the bolt that Joe Tanner lost and was last seen heading towards P3 could be a cause for the problems?
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DaveS - 13/9/2006 6:29 PM
Is anyone else but me thinking on the bolt that Joe Tanner lost and was last seen heading towards P3 could be a cause for the problems?
Crossed my mind but to the knowledge of most people they believe of the components flew away from the station. Then again Steve MacLean lost one today too.
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SARJ rotating?! What's going on? I may be seeing it wrong but it appears to be moving. Someone confirm/deny?
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PAO says that the initial checkout went well, but later there was a point in the checkout where the DLA was to be re-engaged from neutral. At that point, the flight control team didn't get an indication that the DLA was in the engaged position. PAO says that after going through a "backup" procedure to verify alignment of the DLA with the SARJ gear, they still couldn't get an indication that it was engaged. At that point, the checkout was stopped.
Hope I'm transcribing that reasonably...
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We'll have to see what their troubleshooting shows. Could be as simple as an intermittent pin on one of the connectors or a software-based configuration problem.
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nathan.moeller - 14/9/2006 1:32 AM
SARJ rotating?! What's going on? I may be seeing it wrong but it appears to be moving. Someone confirm/deny?
I'm not seeing any motion on the P4.
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DaveS - 13/9/2006 6:37 PM
nathan.moeller - 14/9/2006 1:32 AM
SARJ rotating?! What's going on? I may be seeing it wrong but it appears to be moving. Someone confirm/deny?
I'm not seeing any motion on the P4.
Yeah with the snowy screen it made it look like it was rotating...but after several seconds it was clear that it wasn't. Wasn't sure if they were trying to reposition it or what. I bet the crew's gonna be glad they were asleep for all this!
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Can the controllers walk the Station Arm over there and take a closer look?
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The problem described earlier apparently is with DLA #2...
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Yes, but you won't get to see it. Time to watch the home movies (over and over and over).
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FD5 highlights rolling.
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Bill Harwood has a few more details, but not too much more:
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html
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If it's due to the 2nd/redundant drive, and it really is an alignment problem, the 3rd EVA should be just a little more intesting.
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So could we be seeing a mission extension in action if they don't get this problem solved? They won't able to get the arrays out until they get this SARJ in place.
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One SARJ drive does work. To me it doesn't make much sense to delay the solar array deployment because of that. If *both* drives had failed, maybe yes.
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 7:19 PM
One SARJ drive does work. To me it doesn't make much sense to delay the solar array deployment because of that. If *both* drives had failed, maybe yes.
Kind of predictable though. One of three phases one one of three fuel cells gave an "odd" reading and they scrubbed a launch attempt because of it. They want to make sure they still have redundancy before they give something the chance to go wrong.
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nathan.moeller - 14/9/2006 2:22 AM
Kind of predictable though. One of three phases one one of three fuel cells gave an "odd" reading and they scrubbed a launch attempt because of it. They want to make sure they still have redundancy before they give something the chance to go wrong.
Not a similar situation. If FC#1 had failed there's little you can do about it other than declare a "Minimum Duration Flight" and come home early. Here you can do something about it.
Also not having the SARJ moving during this mission is not a loss of success as the SARJ won't be operational until after STS-116/12A.1 leaves the station.
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DaveS - 13/9/2006 7:28 PM
nathan.moeller - 14/9/2006 2:22 AM
Kind of predictable though. One of three phases one one of three fuel cells gave an "odd" reading and they scrubbed a launch attempt because of it. They want to make sure they still have redundancy before they give something the chance to go wrong.
Not a similar situation. If FC#1 had failed there's little you can do about it other than declare a "Minimum Duration Flight" and come home early. Here you can do something about it.
Also not having the SARJ moving during this mission is not a loss of success as the SARJ won't be operational until after STS-116/12A.1 leaves the station.
Yeah I know, but I'm thinking they're holding off just in case something is actually out of alignment. If it really is out couldn't it cause trouble if they try to move it? I just think they'd want to avoid complicating tasks on EVA-3 as much as possible. What do they plan to do at this point?
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nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 7:31 PM
Yeah I know, but I'm thinking they're holding off just in case something is actually out of alignment. If it really is out couldn't it cause trouble if they try to move it? I just think they'd want to avoid complicating tasks on EVA-3 as much as possible. What do they plan to do at this point?
If being out of alignment would have caused an immediately detectable problem, the first 5 degree move, then the long pause, then the rest of the 180° rotation would have had them scrambling right away. Didn't happen.
What I think they'll do first is, when it's conventient in the EVA timeline, re-align the applicable drive motor. Remember, during EVA-1 Heidi Piper had to go through a number of steps with each motor using the PGT to move them from the launch position to their working alignment. I imagine there's a number of sensors for each motor to flag the smallest operational problem, and one or more of them were flagged after the motor was commanded to move P4. (to me, the key point is *after* the motor was commanded to engage, otherwise they would have detected a problem long before)
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MKremer - 14/9/2006 3:02 AM
If being out of alignment would have caused an immediately detectable problem, the first 5 degree move, then the long pause, then the rest of the 180° rotation would have had them scrambling right away. Didn't happen.
Actually, there's two Drive Lock Assemblies(DLAs). For those two initial movements they only used one of the DLAs. When they tried to do a full 360 using the other DLA, the SARJ didn't move and the DLA gave a out of alignment reading.
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Totally missed it, but I was not best pleased to read some comments about boring PAO commentary on this thread, relating to NASA TV coverage.
Not only does it have f' all to do with this live update thread, but it is totally uncalled for. Remember, we're ZERO tolerance to any level of crap on here, that's what makes this place different to the usual pie throwing contests on the net.
I can't be everywhere at all times, so if anyone does this again, please PM me asap...and I'll delete their comments faster than you can say "jeez, I was just saying...".
Thanks.
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DaveS - 13/9/2006 8:34 PM
MKremer - 14/9/2006 3:02 AM
If being out of alignment would have caused an immediately detectable problem, the first 5 degree move, then the long pause, then the rest of the 180° rotation would have had them scrambling right away. Didn't happen.
Actually, there's two Drive Lock Assemblies(DLAs). For those two initial movements they only used one of the DLAs. When they tried to do a full 360 using the other DLA, the SARJ didn't move and the DLA gave a out of alignment reading.
Which is what I was saying.
The DLAs are part of the motor drive for the truss.
When they were both commanded locked today, no problem detected. When #1 was commanded to engage and run (5° turn, then 175° turn) and the other unlocked, no problem. When #2 commanded to engage and run, big problem.
If troubleshooting C&C and other sensors on both didn't show a fault before, but #2 did when commanded to turn (according to PAO, a suspected alignment fault), the first obvious step after visual inspection would be to re-align/reseat then check operation again.
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Home movies goin' again and again...has anyone heard anything about the SARJ issue?
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PAO just annouced that the DLA was engaged, engineers readying for testing.
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Fingers crossed...
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Woohoo! How long 'til they start? I've been missing commentary because we've got projects goin' here.
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With regard to my earlier remark about taking the arm over to have a look at the SARJ, it looks from the control centre graphic as though that's exactly where it is (although of course it's probably just stayed there ever since P3/4 was mounted up).
With the DLA#2 engaged, I'm guessing they're going to try some minimal moves first and then switch back between DLAs a few times to regain confidence.
Of course they might wait for sunrise before doing anything - although I'm not sure of any benefit
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No annoucement yet, but they interrupted FD5 highlights to break in with the news, and the camera view is P3/P4 live.
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PAO said it was a "software commanding issue". Testing program GO to resume. Continuing full program, including panel deployment.
No rotation yet. . . .
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How long until sunrise (if they are in fact waiting)?
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Sunrise in progress . . . no word on intentions, but camera view firmly on P3/P4.
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daveglo - 13/9/2006 9:44 PM
PAO said it was a "software commanding issue". Testing program GO to resume. Continuing full program, including panel deployment.
Sheesh, I wish they'd make up their minds - first drive/alignment/hardware, then s/w ;) (yes, I keed!)
If it's s/w c&c, that would be wonderful (means it can much more easily be fixed).
They may still have EVA-3 check the suspect DLA/motor, though, if it's not resolved by tomorrow, I would think.
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They may be waiting for crew wake up, in about an hour, while they think about it.
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Norm Hartnett - 13/9/2006 10:15 PM
They may be waiting for crew wake up, in about an hour, while they think about it.
Merry Christmas morning kids! No solar arrays from Santa today! ;) I'm still a little confused why they had the spacewalkers out when they deployed the arrays on STS-97. Was it because the cells stuck and they had to wait until Tanner was out there to go fix it? May be a dumb question but I'm curious.
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Orientation - we're looking from one of Atlantis' cameras, from below the station, toward zenith.
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Well, if they were waiting for daylight, they've got as much as they're gonna get. I think they're waiting for the "A" team to come back on shift, assuming they're on console at the same time that the crew is awake.
Camera occasionally flips to MCC. I picture some poor NASA tech randomly pushing a button on the director's console every now and then, fighting to stay awake . . .
Maybe he/she is also reading this forum! In that case: Hey, how about a view of P3/P4 that includes Earth in the background? Please?
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daveglo - 13/9/2006 10:21 PM
Camera occasionally flips to MCC. I picture some poor NASA tech randomly pushing a button on the director's console every now and then, fighting to stay awake . . .
Funny! Yeah these folks definitely have long hard work days. I'm falling asleep just keeping up with this thread. What's a normal work day for the MCC techs and PAOs?
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So is the OBSS gonna be berthed for the remainder of the flight?
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nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 10:19 PM
I'm still a little confused why they had the spacewalkers out when they deployed the arrays on STS-97. Was it because the cells stuck and they had to wait until Tanner was out there to go fix it? May be a dumb question but I'm curious.
First time for array deployment. They didn't have much of a clue how they would actually deploy in space, as it turned out, plus doing it during an EVA would have someone available for contingincies in case one or both array deployments failed (as in the actual deployment hardware).
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Florida Today is reporting that the solar array problem is fixed.
http://www.floridatoday.com/floridatoday/blogs/spaceteam/
LL
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MKremer - 13/9/2006 10:26 PM
nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 10:19 PM
I'm still a little confused why they had the spacewalkers out when they deployed the arrays on STS-97. Was it because the cells stuck and they had to wait until Tanner was out there to go fix it? May be a dumb question but I'm curious.
First time for array deployment. They didn't have much of a clue how they would actually deploy in space, as it turned out, plus doing it during an EVA would have someone available for contingincies in case one or both array deployments failed (as in the actual deployment hardware).
Gotcha. All the information from that flight and this one will definitely come in handy on STS-117 and STS-119!! Funny how much you can learn from one flight and turn around and apply it to the following missions.
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nathan.moeller - 13/9/2006 10:25 PM
So is the OBSS gonna be berthed for the remainder of the flight?
Yes, until after undocking. They'll station-keep about 40 miles away and do another wing edge/nose cap OBSS sensor sweep to make sure there was no extra damage from unexpected impacts while docked, to verify again that the RCC surfaces are safe for re-entry.
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I'll be $%^#!!! View of P3/P4 AND Earth! Thanks!
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daveglo - 13/9/2006 10:32 PM
I'll be $%^#!!! View of P3/P4 AND Earth! Thanks!
I think you jinxed it dude. ;) Still no word on deploy time.
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leclaire - 13/9/2006 10:28 PM
Florida Today is reporting that the solar array problem is fixed.
http://www.floridatoday.com/floridatoday/blogs/spaceteam/
FTFA - "NASA flight commentator Nicole Cloutier said engineers traced the problem to software commanding issues that now have been resolved. Checkout of the so-called Solar Alpha Rotary Joint has resumed."
So all the panic about a hardware/electronic failure was PR (and NASA-nerd) frantic handwringing. Figures. ;)
I did speculate it might be traced to a sensor or s/w problem. I'm just glad one of those turned out to be the case.
Looking forward to getting the rest of the show on the road. :)
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Alternative theory... the flight engineers are in fact waiting for orbital night so they can test it without all us lot looking over their shoulders... and here it comes...
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Schedule says Forward Solar Array deploy one Bay about 3 1/2 hours ago and Aft Solar Array deploy one Bay about 1/2 hour ago. Neither of these has happened yet have they?
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Norm Hartnett - 13/9/2006 10:42 PM
Schedule says Forward Solar Array deploy one Bay about 3 1/2 hours ago and Aft Solar Array deploy one Bay about 1/2 hour ago. Neither of these has happened yet have they?
There was an issue with a lock engagement for the SARJ and it kept them from completing the tests to deploy the arrays. They traced it to a software issue and will be underway soon.
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Good thing today doesn't involve an EVA. :)
(crew deserves some rest and gives the ISS MCC folks some time to catch back up if they're able to)
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Just to check my orentation Aft is top of screen and Forward is bottom of screen, nearest shuttle?
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I posted something, but that was wrong.
All I know is at the current time the stowed radiator is pointed toward Earth.
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If the radiator is pointing down and shuttle is docked to the front of the station and this is the port truss then aft should be up and forward should be down in the camera view from the shuttle.
I think.
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Yes, it's tricky - I know that the P3/4 truss was tilted upward at about 45 degrees, but I can't quite work the rest of it out. If the camera panned up (frame-up) by some amount less than 60 degrees it would be a straight zenith shot.
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The radiator is pointing down - that's the deploy position (the SARJ 0° position), and what the end position was after the first 180° rotation yesterday.
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That's station coordinates, but the station is not flying "flat", which makes the whole thing confusing to me.
PAO announcement just now that the SARJ has continuing glitches.
And wake up, I guess that's Day 6 on the go.
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Wipeout? Not an auspicious song I should think.
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Well ladies and gents I'm calling it a night. Many apologies to everyone for my uncalled for remarks earlier. Hopefully they'll have these things working tomorrow morning! Good luck all!
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Put it this way - the P4/SARJ 0° position is 180° opposite from Z1/P6. That puts the radiator location pointing nadir from the station reference.
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Now, NASA TV says they have engaged the motor and checkout is continuing. Hopefully they have it this time.
LL
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SARJ movement!
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Yes.
****** EVERYONE GO TO THE FD 6 THREAD! **********