NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
NASA Shuttle Specific Sections => Atlantis (Post STS-135, T&R) => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2006 11:02 pm
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Shall we......
All updates into here:
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Also since it was asked somewhere else, the countdown clock will pick up at the T-11 Hour mark @ 7:45 pm eastern time tonight. The hold at T-6 is now only 1 hour long and they will come out of that hold at 1:45 am eastern time tomorrow morning.
Mark Kirkman
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Couple of NASA TV notes for us armchair folks:
The Media Channel is going to run the live static feed (probably from the east camera site) at 9 pm Eastern tonight.
And NASA TV coverage begins at 5:30 am Eastern tomorrow morning.
Reference:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Breaking.html
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Countdown clock is running at 10:59:35
Next scheduled hold at 11:45pm EDT at 06:00:00. (2 hour duration)
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Austin - 7/9/2006 7:49 PM
Countdown clock is running at 10:59:35
Next scheduled hold at 11:45pm EDT at 06:00:00. (2 hour duration)
See Mark's post above -- they shortened the hold at T-6 hours to one hour. (12:45 am to 1:45 am Eastern)
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Austin - 7/9/2006 6:49 PM
Countdown clock is running at 10:59:35
Next scheduled hold at 11:45pm EDT at 06:00:00. (2 hour duration)
Negative Ghostrider!!!
The hold starts at 12:45 Eastern and is now only 1 hour long. :)
Mark Kirkman
OOPS,
Sorry Philip you beet me to it.
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mkirk - 7/9/2006 5:01 PM
Austin - 7/9/2006 6:49 PM
Countdown clock is running at 10:59:35
Next scheduled hold at 11:45pm EDT at 06:00:00. (2 hour duration)
Negative Ghostrider!!!
The hold starts at 12:45 Eastern and is now only 1 hour long. :)
Mark Kirkman
OOPS,
Sorry Philip you beet me to it.
Affirmative, both!! (Mark/Phillip)
the "oops" was all mine!
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psloss - 8/9/2006 1:08 AM
Couple of NASA TV notes for us armchair folks:
The Media Channel is going to run the live static feed (probably from the east camera site) at 9 pm Eastern tonight.
Seems like they have changed their minds. Watching the the media channel right now., and they're showing a replay of today's post-MMT meeting press conference.
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DaveS - 7/9/2006 9:08 PM
Seems like they have changed their minds. Watching the the media channel right now., and they're showing a replay of today's post-MMT meeting press conference.
Aye. And gone from the reference page, too. It was up at the time that tanking was supposed to start wee early Wednesday, so maybe in a few hours.
Still looks pretty impressive from that angle.
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refresh my memory..what time is the MMT gathering for the go/no go to start tanking procedures?
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At 12:35 am EDT.
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Just looking again at the tasks in this part of the count...
Activate the orbiter's fuel cells
Clear the blast danger area of all non-essential personnel
Switch Atlantis' purge air to gaseous nitrogen
When the fuel cells are activated, is it a short test or will they let them run for a while to get more data?
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If I remember today's news conference correctly, I think they said the fuel cell would be run for an hour. Maybe I misunderstood?
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ianeck - 7/9/2006 8:21 PM
If I remember today's news conference correctly, I think they said the fuel cell would be run for an hour. Maybe I misunderstood?
..sorry..fuel cells, plural. lol
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ianeck - 7/9/2006 10:21 PM
If I remember today's news conference correctly, I think they said the fuel cell would be run for an hour. Maybe I misunderstood?
I think the hour you're referring to there was the original design specification that required the fuel cell to run for an hour on two phases. The engineer (can't remember his name) was answering a reporter's question about the analysis that remained to be done. In short, the fuel cell was spec'd to run for at least an hour on two phases, but when they performed the initial acceptance testing 30 years ago, the motor temperature stabilized after about 26 minutes. As a result, they never ran the pump motor for the full hour and now they're having to extrapolate the effect of temperature on components of the motor and nearby in the accessory assembly.
The fuel cells are on from now until vehicle shutdown at the landing facility. They'll be running at low load while the Ground Support Equipment is plugged in, and transition to the internal cryo load at T-2:35.
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thanks a bunch for the correction :)
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Any inputs as to how well the cells are doing.. any spikes.. issues/no-issues..?
Is cell one running now with 2 phases or three, when did they say they would pull the breaker on the 'A' phase?
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Austin - 7/9/2006 8:27 PM
mkirk - 7/9/2006 5:01 PM
Austin - 7/9/2006 6:49 PM
Countdown clock is running at 10:59:35
Next scheduled hold at 11:45pm EDT at 06:00:00. (2 hour duration)
Negative Ghostrider!!!
The hold starts at 12:45 Eastern and is now only 1 hour long. :)
Mark Kirkman
OOPS,
Sorry Philip you beet me to it.
Affirmative, both!! (Mark/Phillip)
the "oops" was all mine!
Ok... just to resync.. the clock is running and will run for another 39 mins.. but I note SFN... says its holding...
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What time will they start tanking if all looks well?
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nathan.moeller - 8/9/2006 12:10 AM
What time will they start tanking if all looks well?
Actual fill .. 10mins after comming out the hold at T-6
Edit:
from NASA HQ... for the last attempt:
Chilldown of propellant transfer lines (2:34 a.m.)
Begin loading the external tank with about 500,000 gallons of cryogenic propellants (about 2:44 a.m.)
T-6 was at 2:34am on the 6th...
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Copy that. I'll be asleep hahaha. Why did they shorten the hold at T-6:00:00?
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nathan.moeller - 8/9/2006 12:16 AM
Copy that. I'll be asleep hahaha. Why did they shorten the hold at T-6:00:00?
I understand that a number of tasks had been done last attempt.. so it could be shortened... i.e. did not need to be redone
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Same as the post Ernesto "8 day" checkout time, just different parts of the pad flow.
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disregard
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Avron - 7/9/2006 9:09 PM
SFN... says its holding...
The countdown clock is running, sir. This might be a more reliable link for you...
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/index.html
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Austin - 8/9/2006 12:33 AM
Avron - 7/9/2006 9:09 PM
SFN... says its holding...
The countdown clock is running, sir. This might be a more reliable link for you...
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/index.html
Thank-you sir... SFN.. changed the post...
the other clock...
http://countdown.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/cdt/
says 12 mins to hold
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...countdown clock holding at T - 06:00:00 (duration = 1 hour)
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T-6 hrs and holding..
Next up..
Launch team verifies no violations of launch commit criteria prior to cryogenic loading of the external tank
Clear pad of all personnel
and the MMT pre-fueling meeting results..
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Holding at T-6hours
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T-Minus 6 Hours and counting!!!
Good luck for a launch today!
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Any word on fueling operations?
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Not yet.
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How long until we know whether this cell is working properly or not?
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At least we'e got cameras looking in the right place again. :)
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FLA Today reports that "go" has been given for tanking ops: http://www.floridatoday.com/floridatoday/blogs/spaceteam/
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nathan.moeller - 8/9/2006 1:56 AM
How long until we know whether this cell is working properly or not?
It's been running since Wednesday morning, from what I understand. What's critical for complete mission success is for all three fuel cells to work properly for the entire mission.
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Since we're without live commentary for now, SpaceflightNow reports tanking is slightly delayed by the need to changeout a GN2 purge control valve:
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts115/status.html
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Now that same page says "Fueling Underway". Now let's hope they got all the water out of the ET stringers...if there's some water left, wouldn't ice begin to form?
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Bubbinski - 8/9/2006 9:00 AM
Now that same page says "Fueling Underway". Now let's hope they got all the water out of the ET stringers...if there's some water left, wouldn't ice begin to form?
If I recall correctly, the water was on the opposite side of the ET from the orbiter near the intertank access door. So no concerns for debris impacting the orbiter from there.
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Cool, thanks. That's good to know. Now off to bed and I hope to wake up to a good countdown and launch. I notice the camera is fixated on the orbiter nose and intertank area, does the main camera feed change at random, or is there a set sequence (i.e. change from nose to tail every 5 minutes)?
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According to the plan, LH2 and LOX should be at slow fill.
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 9:26 AM
According to the plan, LH2 and LOX should be at slow fill.
Actually, they should be transioning over to fast-fill right now.
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Now It should get clear whether the ECO sensors are working properly ( If they've gone wet according to plan). Any words on this?
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 4:09 AM
Now It should get clear whether the ECO sensors are working properly ( If they've gone wet according to plan). Any words on this?
No. Not sure we'll hear anything unless there is an issue.
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LH2 ECO #3 has failed wet. Checkouts are being performed.
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Amedeo - 8/9/2006 4:15 AM
LH2 ECO #3 has failed wet. Checkouts are being performed.
If that's true, yuck.
What's your source?
Thanks.
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 1:28 AM
OK, let's suppose that that guy is not kidding, what should happen if we have a failed ECO sensor in the LH tank? Should we rely on the rest and fly as is?
Didn't they R&R when this happened last time? My memory grows weary at this hour.
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 4:28 AM
OK, let's suppose that that guy is not kidding, what should happen if we have a failed ECO sensor in the LH tank? Should we rely on the rest and fly as is?
I'm not going to post any more on this beyond this post unless we get some corroboration, but the shuttle program developed a plan for this before STS-121. Let's wait, though.
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just-nick - 8/9/2006 10:29 AM
Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 1:28 AM
OK, let's suppose that that guy is not kidding, what should happen if we have a failed ECO sensor in the LH tank? Should we rely on the rest and fly as is?
Didn't they R&R when this happened last time? My memory grows weary at this hour.
Yep. R&R on both ET-119(STS-121) and ET-118(STS-115) at KSC.
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I'm not sure but Discovery had a failed ECO sensor during its last flight. Whatever, if a repair is requested, this means rollback because the sensor is in the ET
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 10:32 AM
I'm not sure but Discovery had a failed ECO sensor during its last flight. Whatever, if a repair is requested, this means rollback because the sensor is in the ET
Can be in the ECO Point Sensor Box which is located in Avionics Bay 5 in the aft engine compartment.
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I wish NASA tv would switch to live coverage now already. Would be nice to hear the comms at KSC.
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 10:32 AM
I'm not sure but Discovery had a failed ECO sensor during its last flight. Whatever, if a repair is requested, this means rollback because the sensor is in the ET
Yes, but that was not a ECO sensor, that was a 5% sensor in the LH2 tank. They were from the old problematic batch, but not swaped since they are not critical.
Let's hope Chris is online soon, he'll probably have some updates from the ET folks at KSC.
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chksix - 8/9/2006 10:33 AM
I wish NASA tv would switch to live coverage now already. Would be nice to hear the comms at KSC.
Just one more hour.
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Confirmed: "Looks like LH2 ECO #3 just failed during fast fill... if not resolved this will put off launch indefinitely" - source
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As I have checked multiple reliable space news sites(Space.com, Orlando Sentinel, Spaceflightnow.com, CBS News, FLA Today) and none even has a much a mention of the ECO sensors, I would recommend that this statement should be treated with the uttermost suspicion.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 10:40 AM
Confirmed: "Looks like LH2 ECO #3 just failed during fast fill... if not resolved this will put off launch indefinitely" - source
Crap!! :(
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If there's a scrub now, wouldn't it be good to do a full count up to T -31 to spot other problems? Or would that cause problems in itself?
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 10:40 AM
Confirmed: "Looks like LH2 ECO #3 just failed during fast fill... if not resolved this will put off launch indefinitely" - source
Didn't they make up some plans for trubleshooting this prior to the STS-121 launch?
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abacus - 8/9/2006 4:29 AM
I may have to apologise. This guy posted from a NASA ip address.
I'll do so right now.
To the original poster, sorry for being suspicious, but without at least some idea where the info came from (OIS loop, for example), it's hard not to be.
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Chris, how about posting some of the ECO sensor trouble shooting charts on L2 here?
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Theoretically, the shuttle may launch with this, but it's a little dangerous, because if there's a premature engine cutoff, this could lead to a disaster.
As for me, I als oappologise for being suspicious.
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 4:47 AM
Theoretically, the shuttle may launch with this, but it's a little dangerous, because if there's a premature engine cutoff, this could lead to a disaster.
That's pure speculation without more details.
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Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 10:47 AM
Theoretically, the shuttle may launch with this, but it's a little dangerous, because if there's a premature engine cutoff, this could lead to a disaster.
It has failed "wet", not "dry" needed for a pre-mature MECO.
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T-3 hours and holding for 3 hours.
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Reminder please: did STS-114 and/or STS-121 involve an LCC waiver for specific ECO failure/s?
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 1:48 AM
Svetoslav - 8/9/2006 10:47 AM
Theoretically, the shuttle may launch with this, but it's a little dangerous, because if there's a premature engine cutoff, this could lead to a disaster.
It has failed "wet", not "dry" needed for a pre-mature MECO.
Actually, I think the whole "job" of the sensor is to trigger an early but controlled MECO if you run into premature depletion (STS-93 again, right?). The alternative -- which would happen if two sensors failed wet -- is that the tank drains out while the SSME's are running happily along. Result is sudden overspeed, failed turbines, and bits of hot metal flying apart.
So fail dry = chance of MECO at some odd, early point. Fail wet = chance of self-destructing SSME's if you burn too much fuel.
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neo - 8/9/2006 10:56 AM
Reminder please: did STS-114 and/or STS-121 involve an LCC waiver for specific ECO failure/s?
114: They had one ready, but never used it as all ECO sensors worked nominally throughout the July 26 countdown.
121: Not sure.
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Answering a few questions here.
No LCC waiver for this type of ECO fail.
Point Sensor Box is being troubleshooted.
Will be a scrub if no solution.
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For those on L2, I have bumped a thread from a PRCB regarding 3 of 4 ECO LCC
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Talk of a scrub.
All four LH2 ECO sensors indicating DRY right now as part of the normal switchout.
For the previous 50 minutes, LH2 ECO 3 is showing WET.
Tanking is proceeding as normal while the troubleshooting takes place.
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just-nick - 8/9/2006 4:57 AM
Actually, I think the whole "job" of the sensor is to trigger an early but controlled MECO if you run into premature depletion (STS-93 again, right?). The alternative -- which would happen if two sensors failed wet -- is that the tank drains out while the SSME's are running happily along. Result is sudden overspeed, failed turbines, and bits of hot metal flying apart.
So fail dry = chance of MECO at some odd, early point. Fail wet = chance of self-destructing SSME's if you burn too much fuel.
The system is biased to the oxygen side, and I'm not sure the sensor data is used until some point after liftoff.
The issue with depletion is having all those moving parts running without fuel.
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Internal loop:
Talk on OIS 232 About ECO Sensor (-------)
They are seeing an ECO point box sensor funny. LH2 Sensor #3 failure. They said that Wayne Hale accepted for STS-114 a scenario where they would be NO GO today, but try the next time and if it repeats, they would be GO. The idea to is watch that the sensors go dry when they drain the tank. They said these sensors and boxes had gone through a full ATP.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 5:04 AM
Talk of a scrub.
All four LH2 ECO sensors indicating DRY right now as part of the normal switchout.
For the previous 50 minutes, LH2 ECO 3 is showing WET.
Tanking is proceeding as normal while the troubleshooting takes place.
Not sure I follow the behavior of the problem reading...are you saying that the indication has changed back and forth from what's expected? (Sometimes WET when it should indicate DRY, but also sometimes DRY when it should indicate DRY?) That sounds different than the behavior from the first STS-114 launch attempt.
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 9:45 AM
Chris, how about posting some of the ECO sensor trouble shooting charts on L2 here?
Dave, go for it. Take what you want off L2. You have my permission.
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Pressing on with filling ET (======)
Pressing on. Management will talk the LLCO sensor. Some might want to go with 3 of 4, but Wayne Hale only agreed to that after the 24 hour trouble shooting. More to come.
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A number of problems...
LH2 Circ Pump voltage low (----)
The primary voltage on PhA is 109 - one bit toggle (109 is the ICD lower limit), with PhB and PhC at 110. The potentiometer will be switched over. The secondary is good at 115, 117, 117 volts.
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They are sending a team out to the pad (during replenish) to take a look at whatever they can. Lots of problems being recorded.
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Sure looks like this news isn't going to break except places like this until live commentary at the bottom of the hour...still no report anywhere else that I can see...
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I haven't seen anything on this on other spaceflight related internet sites. This just shows why nasaspaceflight.com is the best site for up-to-date info! Excellent work and a big thanks to Chris and his sources. ;)
I was wondering - it seems that for this launch and the previous two launches, the ECO sensors have been the talking point of the launch day, and they've caused quite a few headaches for NASA. Has this always been the case through the Space Shuttle program, os is this a "new" issue, and if so - why? There was some talk about a bad batch of sensors, but if this is a sensor from that batch, I'd believe NASA would have known that a long time ago and been prepared for a possible ECO sensor failure.
I also think it could be wise if NASA would just continue with the countdown even if they decide to scrub, just to check if other sensors and systems need replacing before the next launch attempt.
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at least the weather still looks good. :)
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LH2 topping on the tanking.
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FWIW, looks like the news is finally showing up elsewhere...
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NASA TV coverage now underway.
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oh good. Nasa TV is starting. Just in time to tell us to go back to bed.
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Interesting that the news is not the lead as commentary starts -- basically George Diller is running through a general summary/overview. Now just beginning to talk about status.
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Not a word on NASA TV about the problem..yet...
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 5:09 AM
Internal loop:
Talk on OIS 232 About ECO Sensor (-------)
...
They said these sensors and boxes had gone through a full ATP.
More puzzlings about the ECO system and its "full ATP": To what extent could a full ATP involve more than laboratory or otherwise isolated testing? Was the interference/other enviroment used or reproduced, or is that the rub? If manufacturing doesn't prove suspect, something else inside or just outside the system must be interacting, no? Frustrating..
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Basically George Diller provided just a recap of what was reported here. The only thing I got out of it is that they seem to be following the pre-STS-121 plan. No hint that they are going to scrub at this point -- or when they would do so, though I can't imagine they'd send the crew out if they aren't going to fly.
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Yes, the mentioned it and the possibility of changing the rules or de-tanking and trying again tomorrow.
I bet the scrub today. bummer :(
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dougb - 8/9/2006 5:39 AM
Yes, the mentioned it and the possibility of changing the rules or de-tanking and trying again tomorrow.
I bet the scrub today. bummer :(
Yeah, that's as per the troubleshooting plan...also noted that the LH2 tank is in stable replenish...
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Yes, he described two options:
A) Fly as-is with 3 of 4 ECO sensors.
B) Scrub later today, and detank. Come back tomorow, if same ECO sensor fails (LH2 #3) fails or if everything is normal, go fly. If another sensor fails, scrub
Standing by for stable replenish on LO2 now.... Meaning tanking will be complete soon...
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5:32 a.m. - The launch team reports a failed ECO sensor on the hydrogen side of the external tank. At this time they are pressing forward with launch. Mission Management Team members are meeting to decide if they will go forward with launching with three working sensors or if it will be necessary to de-tank and come back tomorrow.
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Both tanks now in replenish - 5:56am EDT
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Just reported on the recirc pump issue that a red team will go out to the pad now that they're in stable replenish...didn't sound like that was a showstopper.
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I would not want to wake up the mmt.
I would be very grumpy.
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Boeing Cons/Veh Mgr IMU Cals are good (====)
KSC reports that IMU cals were successful
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LCC violated:
2006:251:09:55:19
09/08/06 04:55:19 Boeing Safety IPR 115V-0422 -LCC GNC-74 violated
2006:251:06:34 (nq721c)
ADTA-1 and -3 pressure differences greater than 0.064 inches of Mercury. May be due to water and wind loading at the pad. Troubleshooting will be to allow water to evaporate when rain is over and observe pressure differential.
LCC GNC-74 violated.
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What about a seperate thread for screenshots from NASA-TV?
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:01 PM
Boeing Cons/Veh Mgr IMU Cals are good (====)
KSC reports that IMU cals were successful
Great...
Uhm, what's IMU? And who are those Cons and Veh guys?
;) ;) ;)
OK, "Veh Mgr" is vehicle manager, right?
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hoorenz - 8/9/2006 12:05 PM
What about a seperate thread for screenshots from NASA-TV?
Good idea! Haven't we had enough screen cap spam?
;) ;) ;)
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Screenshots are ok, so long as it's just occasional and new.
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IPR 115V-0426 LH2 ECO Sensor 2 Failed - MPS 22 violated.
2006:251:08:12 (=====)
LH2 Liquid Level Sensor #3 indicated 'Wet' when the Sim command was driven to 'Dry'. Troubleshooting to include preplanned step to verify the anomaly is not MDM related. If MDM failure, then we have a waiver and can proceed per MPS-22.
2006:251:10:00 (nq721c)
MDM not anomaly source.
:(
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Hopefully this remains visible for a little bit before the next surge of pictures, but IMU = Inertial Measurement Unit.
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IMU = Inertial Measurement Unit.
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nethegauner - 8/9/2006 12:07 PM
hoorenz - 8/9/2006 12:05 PM
What about a seperate thread for screenshots from NASA-TV?
Good idea! Haven't we had enough screen cap spam?
;) ;) ;)
I think it's nice to have the screenshots in this thread - as they are then chronologically in order with the other comments and discussion here.
Just my opinion. ;)
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2006:251:10:03:33
09/08/06 05:03:33 MPS Integ LLCO Sim Check (-----)
S00FF0.204 - LH2 LLCO ECO #3 Remains 'WET'
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:09 PM
IPR 115V-0426 LH2 ECO Sensor 2 Failed - MPS 22 violated.
Problems with both ECO sensor 2 AND 3?
:o
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Problem is believed to be orbiter electronics, not the LH2 ECO sensor (source).
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Thanks, psloss and DaveS! Hope You read this before those JPEGs continue to touch down...!
;) ;) ;)
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close out crew at the pad...
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 6:09 AM
IPR 115V-0426 LH2 ECO Sensor 2 Failed - MPS 22 violated.
2006:251:08:12 (=====)
LH2 Liquid Level Sensor #3 indicated 'Wet' when the Sim command was driven to 'Dry'. Troubleshooting to include preplanned step to verify the anomaly is not MDM related. If MDM failure, then we have a waiver and can proceed per MPS-22.
2006:251:10:00 (nq721c)
MDM not anomaly source.
:(
Sounds in line with the pre-121 troubleshooting plan, which would point to detanking -- and sadly, not the 8 1/2 minute kind. But who knows what has changed between then and now...I'll be curious to see if the crew goes out to the pad in this situation.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 6:11 AM
Problem is believed to be orbiter electronics, not the LH2 ECO sensor (source).
Point sensor box?
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 11:11 AM
Problem is believed to be orbiter electronics, not the LH2 ECO sensor (source).
Is that bad enough to cause a scrub? If the Orbiter can't determine what the status of the tank is, that wouldn't be good, I guess...
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IPR 115V-0422 -LCC GNC-74 violated
2006:251:10:08 (nq721c)
IPR closed. Water expected to evaporate.
PR 115V-0426 LH2 ECO Sensor 2 Failed - MPS 22 violated.
2006:251:10:07 (nq721c)
Opened S&MA Anomaly 115-SMA-02
Trying to get this in "English" :)
We're checking the second sensor failure note.
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ECO Sensor info (-----)
These sensors were cherry picked (all sensors were nano-screened and ranked, then installed as needed from the best to worst). There was not criteria cut-off for an unacceptable sensor.
The box had some tin whisker work done, also.
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psloss - 8/9/2006 11:14 AM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 6:11 AM
Problem is believed to be orbiter electronics, not the LH2 ECO sensor (source).
Point sensor box?
That's what they are thinking.
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is it known what time the crew leaves for 39b?
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7:50 am EDT.
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spaceshuttle - 8/9/2006 12:26 PM
is it known what time the crew leaves for 39b?
in about 1 1/2 hour from now...
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Has a Lockheed Martin prankster hacked into NASA TV's closed caption?
"And it's Lockheed Martin wooooooooooooooooo!" :)
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Looks like they are going to push for 3/4 ECO LCC for launch today.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:39 PM
Looks like they are going to push for 3/4 ECO LCC for launch today.
WOW!
Personaliy I would scrub, trubleshoot and try again tomorow...
Do we have any reasons for pusing a 3/4 ECO LCC today?
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A lot of people are not happy about this, but there's a management meeting to provide rationale to go with a launch.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 5:16 AM
IPR 115V-0422 -LCC GNC-74 violated
2006:251:10:08 (nq721c)
IPR closed. Water expected to evaporate.
PR 115V-0426 LH2 ECO Sensor 2 Failed - MPS 22 violated.
2006:251:10:07 (nq721c)
Opened S&MA Anomaly 115-SMA-02
Trying to get this in "English" :)
We're checking the second sensor failure note.
GNC-74 is the LCC (Launch Commit Criteria) for an Air Data Transducer Assembly Pressure Anomaly
and
MPS-22 is the LCC for the MPS LH2 Low Level Sensor Anomaly
I have not heard what the exact signature of the two IPRs were other than the ECO sensor indicated Wet in the Dry state...
Mark Kirkman
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What would be the window for tomorrow ? (9 Sept)
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there is a lot of talk going on on NASA TV but can't hear it that good...
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I guess we will not have a real discussion in this live-update thread, but just my two cents: one cent says "Wow! Gee, we gonna fly!" -- the other cent says "That ECO stuff sure sounds funny. We better scrub. And we better lift that damn night launch rule..."
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Is there anywhere we can get a compete list of LCCs? For reference?
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IMU condition is explained and deemed no problem.
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;) Atlantis at Launch Pad 39B
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:39 PM
Looks like they are going to push for 3/4 ECO LCC for launch today.
But what good would a 3/4 ECO LLC do if both sensor #2 and #3 are having trouble (or if it's the electronics that controls them, so that you might get more than 1 wrong reading during launch)?
Or am I misunderstaning how things work here?
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Please!!! I know what a shuttle looks like. Don't give me this 456 more times today.
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rfoshaug - 8/9/2006 6:50 AM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:39 PM
Looks like they are going to push for 3/4 ECO LCC for launch today.
But what good would a 3/4 ECO LLC do if both sensor #2 and #3 are having trouble (or if it's the electronics that controls them, so that you might get more than 1 wrong reading during launch)?
Or am I misunderstaning how things work here?
If they're talking about 3/4, then the issue is only with one of those two.
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Great shot of LC 39 with the full moon at 10 oclock from the WEST (edit, thanks Dave) facing camera...just barely audible ground loop audio feeding through...slapping the headphones on to see if I can get a read on it.
ADD:
Inspection team audio...nothing sounding out of nominal...heading down to 195' now...irritating that they are running it so low...need to jump it about 6 dbu, so then its at least there...cmon PAOs
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jupiter - 8/9/2006 12:48 PM
;) Atlantis at Launch Pad 39B
Yes we know it is on Pad-39B...that pic was posted here before, please only new pictures... :(
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hoorenz - 8/9/2006 6:51 AM
Please!!! I know what a shuttle looks like. Don't give me this 456 more times today.
Perhaps we can have somewhat of a happy medium -- I don't mind the screenshots, but I would like to join in this request and ask for some restraint in the frequency of posting screenshots.
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05:52:20 MER MGR Tyvek Action From Ed (-------)
If we go into 24 hour scrub, need to assess impacts of the Tyvek cover loss on F3L, since RSS will not be rolled back. When RCS comes on need to get them involved, including MOD assessment
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Firing Room 4.
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gocamels - 8/9/2006 12:56 PM
Great shot of LC 39 with the full moon at 10 oclock from the North facing camera...just barely audible ground loop audio feeding through...slapping the headphones on to see if I can get a read on it.
It's facing west, not north.
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Manager meeting and been told they have one hour for rationale debate on the ECOs.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:00 AM
05:52:20 MER MGR Tyvek Action From Ed (-------)
If we go into 24 hour scrub, need to assess impacts of the Tyvek cover loss on F3L, since RSS will not be rolled back. When RCS comes on need to get them involved, including MOD assessment
What do you know? I didn't notice that, but I have screenshots if that interests anyone...it happened last night around 9:40 pm local.
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psloss - 8/9/2006 11:58 AM
hoorenz - 8/9/2006 6:51 AM
Please!!! I know what a shuttle looks like. Don't give me this 456 more times today.
Perhaps we can have somewhat of a happy medium -- I don't mind the screenshots, but I would like to join in this request and ask for some restraint in the frequency of posting screenshots.
Agreed.
One screenshot, not loads at once, per post, and not every five seconds. Thanks. ou crazy at launch, and during spacewalks, docking etc.etc. great, but not while she's sat at the pad, twiddling her ECO sensors ;)
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They want to make a decision prior to Crew Ingress!
I personally don't see them getting to the Launch Today Rationale because of the underlying assumptions of the current 3 of 4 rule. I have not heard from anyone to confirm if we are talking about two sensors as was posted here earlier...but if there are 2 sensors and the Point Sensor Box is the suspect we are no go for today - as I understood from the 121 flow.
Mark Kirkman
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psloss - 8/9/2006 6:04 AM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:00 AM
05:52:20 MER MGR Tyvek Action From Ed (-------)
If we go into 24 hour scrub, need to assess impacts of the Tyvek cover loss on F3L, since RSS will not be rolled back. When RCS comes on need to get them involved, including MOD assessment
What do you know? I didn't notice that, but I have screenshots if that interests anyone...it happened last night around 9:40 pm local.
The Tyvek cover came loose, at this point they just want to make sure there is no moinsture in the thruster that could freeze and prevent thrust firings.
Mark Kirkman
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mkirk - 8/9/2006 12:06 PM
They want to make a decision prior to Crew Ingress!
I personally don't see them getting to the Launch Today Rationale because of the underlying assumptions of the current 3 of 4 rule. I have not heard from anyone to confirm if we are talking about two sensors as was posted here earlier...but if there are 2 sensors and the Point Sensor Box is the suspect we are no go for today - as I understood from the 121 flow.
Mark Kirkman
Sensor 2 info is strange. Everyone I know is saying it's just the one sensor failed, so that's our position.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:09 AM
Sensor 2 info is strange. Everyone I know is saying it's just the one sensor failed, so that's our position.
Possibly a typo?
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Air Data probe IPR. Must be cleared by T-20min mark. Water droplet looks to be "evaporating", but the current & forcasted relative humidity does not favor complete evaporation. Possible "hip-pocket" waiver coming through in a few hours.
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TAL sites are go... Primary TAL is Zaragoza, Spain...
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mkirk - 8/9/2006 7:06 AM
They want to make a decision prior to Crew Ingress!
I personally don't see them getting to the Launch Today Rationale because of the underlying assumptions of the current 3 of 4 rule. I have not heard from anyone to confirm if we are talking about two sensors as was posted here earlier...but if there are 2 sensors and the Point Sensor Box is the suspect we are no go for today - as I understood from the 121 flow.
Mark, a question about way the computers take the ECO data...at what point in ascent are the sensors normally "armed?"
Oh, yeah, the other question: what sequence of failures would cause them to be armed prior to that?
Thanks.
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Ok, posting a slide from the a PRCB document at L2 where the 3/4 ECO LCC was discused...
Complete document is availible on L2
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Live debate going on on 3 of 4 ECO sensor...ahhhh, PAO just pulled it
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psloss - 8/9/2006 12:16 PM
mkirk - 8/9/2006 7:06 AM
They want to make a decision prior to Crew Ingress!
I personally don't see them getting to the Launch Today Rationale because of the underlying assumptions of the current 3 of 4 rule. I have not heard from anyone to confirm if we are talking about two sensors as was posted here earlier...but if there are 2 sensors and the Point Sensor Box is the suspect we are no go for today - as I understood from the 121 flow.
Mark, a question about way the computers take the ECO data...at what point in ascent are the sensors normally "armed?"
Oh, yeah, the other question: what sequence of failures would cause them to be armed prior to that?
Thanks.
"The ECOs are normally armed when the ET 5% sensors go dry during flight (typically around 8 minutes 0 seconds)" - thanks to the source who saw the question and passed on the answer *waves* :)
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I think I hear LeRoy Cain's voice (faintly) and I just heard a female voice say.."how can you say that...." sounds at least from a faint volume perspective like it's fairly heated (Watching NASA Tv on the net with headphones on).
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I think I hear LeRoy Cain's voice (faintly) and I just heard a female voice say.."how can you say that...." sounds at least from a faint volume perspective like it's fairly heated (Watching NASA Tv on the net with headphones on).
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:27 AM
"The ECOs are normally armed when the ET 5% sensors go dry during flight (typically around 8 minutes 0 seconds)" - thanks to the source who saw the question and passed on the answer *waves* :)
My thanks, too -- since that sensor also failed on the STS-121 tank, what's the condition to arm the sensors without the 5% sensor?
Edit: I'm assuming with the system biased to the LOX side, the 5% sensor on the LOX tank would be uncovered first and that sensor didn't fail on the STS-121 tank, but I'm curious if there's another indicator or whether it would be "computationally-based."
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Navaids NAVAIDS Activation - 24 minutes past the hour.
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coming up at 0700 Full MER Pre-Launch Team Call to Stations
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:34 AM
coming up at 0700 Full MER Pre-Launch Team Call to Stations
That would be 0800 EDT, 1200 GMT.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 6:27 AM
psloss - 8/9/2006 12:16 PM
mkirk - 8/9/2006 7:06 AM
They want to make a decision prior to Crew Ingress!
I personally don't see them getting to the Launch Today Rationale because of the underlying assumptions of the current 3 of 4 rule. I have not heard from anyone to confirm if we are talking about two sensors as was posted here earlier...but if there are 2 sensors and the Point Sensor Box is the suspect we are no go for today - as I understood from the 121 flow.
Mark, a question about way the computers take the ECO data...at what point in ascent are the sensors normally "armed?"
Oh, yeah, the other question: what sequence of failures would cause them to be armed prior to that?
Thanks.
"The ECOs are normally armed when the ET 5% sensors go dry during flight (typically around 8 minutes 0 seconds)" - thanks to the source who saw the question and passed on the answer *waves* :)
I have not been ignoring you I am just spread pretty thin this morning and I dont have the time to put together a well worded/accurate response to what is a complex question. For now here is a link to a backgrounder I wrote a while back.
http://www.interspacenews.com/sections/In%20focus/ECO%20Sensors.htm
Bill Harwood wrote a better one in my opinion but you will have to find the link to that on your own.
If they dont beet the question to death at the Post Launch / Scrub Press Conference I will try and provide a good answer in the Shuttle Q&A thread later today when things calm down.
Mark Kirkman
P.S.
It is a lot more complex than just the 5% sensors going dry.
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ET give go ahead to proceed to launch.
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mkirk - 8/9/2006 7:39 AM
I have not been ignoring you I am just spread pretty thin this morning and I dont have the time to put together a well worded/accurate response to what is a complex question. For now here is a link to a backgrounder I wrote a while back.
No worries, Mark. As they usually say in a different context, "don't quit your day job." :)
We can have that discussion in the Q&A thread whenever things calm down (which doesn't sound like today).
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 1:39 PM
ET give go ahead to proceed to launch.
Is that console manned by MAF personell?
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:39 AM
ET give go ahead to proceed to launch.
I'm not totally surprised, but wow...this has really turned into a unique launch campaign...
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4 min. before they restart the countdown...
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We're in a launch situation now. ECO sensor issue as it stands will not stop the launch, is what we're hearing.
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T-3 hours and counting... looking forward very much to the launch!!
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ice team...
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So what is the final rational to fly with the bad ECO sensor?
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:48 AM
We're in a launch situation now. ECO sensor issue as it stands will not stop the launch, is what we're hearing.
I agree with what Mark wrote earlier -- there are going to be a lot of questions at whichever type of press briefing there is today.
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Not sure anyone picked this up on CNN - for what it's worth.....
POSTED: 7:38 a.m. EDT, September 8, 2006
KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, Florida (CNN) -- The scheduled late-morning liftoff of space shuttle Atlantis on Friday is likely to be delayed by 24 hours, NASA program manager Wayne Hale told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/09/08/shuttle.launch/index.html
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Strut - I think I recall its 11:15am EDT for an opportunity if they were to scrub until tomorrow.
R.
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The crew is headed to the pad.
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video - STS-115 launch activities
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=878
John
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psloss - 8/9/2006 1:54 PM
The crew is headed to the pad.
Tell that CNN...! ;)
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Boston Shuttle Head - 8/9/2006 12:51 PM
Not sure anyone picked this up on CNN - for what it's worth.....
POSTED: 7:38 a.m. EDT, September 8, 2006
KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, Florida (CNN) -- The scheduled late-morning liftoff of space shuttle Atlantis on Friday is likely to be delayed by 24 hours, NASA program manager Wayne Hale told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/09/08/shuttle.launch/index.html
From who I've talked to, with ET reccomending to launch, I would find it surprising if they do scrub for 24 hours now. Remember, nothing changes for the next attempt, so why wait, is the rationale.
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nethegauner - 8/9/2006 7:57 AM
psloss - 8/9/2006 1:54 PM
The crew is headed to the pad.
Tell that CNN...! ;)
It wouldn't help. I'd like to see a transcript, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that CNN didn't understand Wayne Hale correctly.
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Just a complete off-topic...maybe the NFL should go with the DAY-GLO Orange like on the partial pressure suits for the Coach's Challange flags...poor Dolphins fans
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:58 AM
From who I've talked to, with ET reccomending to launch, I would find it surprising if they do scrub for 24 hours now. Remember, nothing changes for the next attempt, so why wait, is the rationale.
Along those lines, I would speculate that there's some thinking that the sensor indication is not going to substantially change if they retank.
But that's not flight rationale, which is what I think is a bigger curiosity...
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Boeing Safety Crew Module reported ready for ingrees.
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Considering Water in F3L (-----)
------ is mulling whether they need to replace the Tyvek cover and if they don't, would rain intrusion negatively affect the thruster? May have to deselect due to cold temps/leak. Burntrhough is protected by RJD. The tech used binoculars and a hi beam light and confirmed he could see the injector face and no indications of water in the throat.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 8:02 AM
Considering Water in F3L (-----)
------ is mulling whether they need to replace the Tyvek cover and if they don't, would rain intrusion negatively affect the thruster? May have to deselect due to cold temps/leak. Burntrhough is protected by RJD. The tech used binoculars and a hi beam light and confirmed he could see the injector face and no indications of water in the throat.
Given the time that the cover came off last night (9:40 pm local), it might have held out until after last night's rain.
(I can post the sequence, though it violates the one screenshot rule.) :)
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what's the latest weather -% of launching?
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07:58:54 MPS Integ ECO & LEVEL sensors checkout @11:52. ECO #3 only failure observed.
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shuttlefan - 8/9/2006 2:04 PM
what's the latest weather -% of launching?
No longer talking in % anymore. It's either red/green.
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Source:
"The Tyvek cover actually came off after the rain was finished. They do no think any water got in the thruster. They are taking about what kind of temps, how long it would take to bake it out, what we could do to bake it out with attitudes, etc... This jet is not normally used on ascent. They won't be able to put the RSS back to put the cover bakc on if we scrub. There is a 10% chance of rain. They are concerned about Pc tube blockage. All thrusters on the ship are refurbished. Wayne Hale said the tube position varies depending on the jet and it would affect whether you'd get water in the tube."
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 8:06 AM
Source:
"The Tyvek cover actually came off after the rain was finished. They do no think any water got in the thruster. They are taking about what kind of temps, how long it would take to bake it out, what we could do to bake it out with attitudes, etc... This jet is not normally used on ascent. They won't be able to put the RSS back to put the cover bakc on if we scrub. There is a 10% chance of rain. They are concerned about Pc tube blockage. All thrusters on the ship are refurbished. Wayne Hale said the tube position varies depending on the jet and it would affect whether you'd get water in the tube."
OK, I'm going to post the screenshot sequence here and hope this will be indulged. At least it will show the location of the thruster.
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Gary - 8/9/2006 1:09 PM
psloss - 8/9/2006 1:01 PM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:58 AM
From who I've talked to, with ET reccomending to launch, I would find it surprising if they do scrub for 24 hours now. Remember, nothing changes for the next attempt, so why wait, is the rationale.
Along those lines, I would speculate that there's some thinking that the sensor indication is not going to substantially change if they retank.
But that's not flight rationale, which is what I think is a bigger curiosity...
Also if they detank and retank couldn't that cause some of the foam to suffer from the contraction/expansion of the tank?
Which is a concern, due to the evidence on ET-120 that it can lead to cyro-pumping on ascent = foam liberation.
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Crew at the pad !
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FCS HW Comm checks complete with KSC on OIS 171 and GNC on GNC Coord1
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Back in the old days...
I remember when I flew the full pressure suits about 30 years ago that there was no way I could seat the O-rings on the gloves without help from life support personnel. He needed 2 hands and I needed one hand on the ring. I just saw the CDR put his gloves on and seat the O-rings himself. Ah, progress!
Cheers,
Larry
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Nice story Larry :)
GPC 1 GPC 2 GPC 3 GPC 4
GPC Errors 0 0 0 0
I/O Errors 435 433 433 433
OI TFL 129 GPC D/L 44 SM XX
Crew ingress in progress <---typo not spotted before
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 2:34 PM
Crew egress in progress
Shouldn't this be "Crew ingress in progress"?
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 2:36 PM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 2:34 PM
Crew egress in progress
Shouldn't this be "Crew ingress in progress"?
Maybe he knows something that we do not? Pass this on to CNN: crew egress is on...!
:) :) :)
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 8:36 AM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 2:34 PM
Crew egress in progress
Shouldn't this be "Crew ingress in progress"?
Picky...picky... :)
cheers,
larry
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Good morning gents! It's go time! How does the weather look out in Florida?
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Probably a typo from a guy on a console who's ran out of coffee ;)
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 2:41 PM
Probably a typo from a guy on a console who's ran out of coffee ;)
For a moment I was worried there ;) !
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MSNBC.com reports NASA is leaning towards postponing the launch. Obviously this is "old news" at this point, as it seems they are leaning towards a "go". http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14731275/
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 2:41 PM
Probably a typo from a guy on a console who's ran out of coffee ;)
Guess the ECO sensors on the coffee cup isn't working... ;)
Btw. any word on when we'll have a "official" descition?
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No official word on go for launch from MMT at this time.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 7:41 AM
Probably a typo from a guy on a console who's ran out of coffee ;)
Are the people in the Launch Control Center allowed to drink coffee during the final count? ( Like I am sitting at my computer, however I am preventing a major accident by having my coffee sit on a table next to my computer, as opposed to having it spill into the keyboard. Safety first!!!) :) :)
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Passive Thermal Purge Temperatures
Circuit 1: 89.4 Degrees F
Circuit 2: 65.1 Degrees F
Circuit 3: 106.0 Degrees F
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nathan.moeller - 8/9/2006 8:40 AM
How does the weather look out in Florida?
Did you look at the thread dedicated to launch weather updates? With links to current conditions and the forecast?
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Orbiter to Ground with a nasty echo...open channel somewhere in the PAO loop?
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I'm listening to the Combat Air Patrol (CAP) F-15s talking to the tanker...they just tanked up and are going to CAP altitude. I'm waiting to see the WB-57 fly overhead. I always get a thrill watching that plane fly overhead because I flew that same plane so many years ago. Trying to get comms from him...he was loud and clear during earlier testing.
Cheers,
Larry
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Fuel Cell Purge coming up
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rdale - 8/9/2006 7:51 AM
nathan.moeller - 8/9/2006 8:40 AM
How does the weather look out in Florida?
Did you look at the thread dedicated to launch weather updates? With links to current conditions and the forecast?
I always forget to do that....
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Rocket Nut - 8/9/2006 11:55 PM
Trying to get comms from him...he was loud and clear during earlier testing.
It's not encrypted? Are most comms at the KSC open?
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jupiter - 8/9/2006 8:57 AM
chan3large
Jup - we all know what the shuttle looks like on the pad... Please only post screen caps that have a purpose.
Misfit - air to ground comms are not encrypted, and most KSC comms are in the clear.
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Earth_Bound_Misfit - 8/9/2006 9:00 AM
Rocket Nut - 8/9/2006 11:55 PM
Trying to get comms from him...he was loud and clear during earlier testing.
It's not encrypted? Are most comms at the KSC open?
most air-to-ground are not encrypted.
I haven't tried NASA comms recently. I'm going to watch the launch from my backyard today. I see the shuttle about 3-5 seconds after clearing the pad. Great NASA TV coverage till launch then run outside and watch it go! I'm about 6 miles south of the closest that the general non-paying public can get to the launch. It's not worth the traffic jams to get 6 miles closer...last launch caused near gridlock.
cheers,
Larry
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All crewmembers are now onboard Atlantis..
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psloss - 8/9/2006 6:54 AM
The crew is headed to the pad.
Here's a photo taken from this morning's walkout...
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Robert, can you or anyone get the shot of the downrange, over the Cape launch pads, which Bruce was saying looks awesome?
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GLS has been initialized
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 8:13 AM
Robert, can you or anyone get the shot of the downrange, over the Cape launch pads, which Bruce was saying looks awesome?
I just walked outside and it looks like a normal Florida sky at the moment. Bruce's comment may have been during sunrise, when I (and practically every photographer here) was sandwiched between buildings at the O&C building...
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A normal Florida day is probably a view of paradise compared to over here...unless you like dark clouds and drizzle ;)
Still no word on the MMT decision?
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Wow. If any of you have access to HDNet on your HD cable or sat feed, the views from the cape is incredible.
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Does anyone know if there is a map available with the projected trajectory (on top of the earth map) of atlantis after liftoff (like the one showing in MCC while in orbit) ?
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http://www.floridatoday.com/floridatoday/blogs/spaceteam/uploaded_images/090806dawn-732860.jpg = very nice.
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Same on this side of the channel - any idea whether we could see ET separation at this Lat/Longitude and time of day? (I haven't checked the ground trajectory yet, but heard rumours on the possibility)
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Gary - 8/9/2006 9:28 AM
UK Shuttle Clan - 8/9/2006 2:26 PM
A normal Florida day is probably a view of paradise compared to over here...unless you like dark clouds and drizzle ;)
I understand that feeling. Being in UK it's mostly dark skys although today is much brighter and clearer than normal! :)
In my back yard I'm showing 82.6 degrees and widely scattered high cirrus clouds and a few contrails. Yep, paradise.
Still looking for the WB-57F WAVE aircraft.
Cheers,
Larry
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UK Shuttle Clan - 8/9/2006 2:26 PM
Still no word on the MMT decision?
Not yet, and apparently it should have been concluded prior to crew ingress.
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I was looking forward to getting my scanner out on 259.700 and getting some UHF comms when the Orbiter passes over Europe, but I'll be busy packing to go camping this weekend in the Lake District. It's a matter of "watch launch, get in car, go immediately" because we're pushed for time.
Maybe next time :)
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No, Atlantis and ET would have been VIS in Europe a couple of launch opportunities back (August 27, 29) but launch / ISS orbit moved too far in daylight by now.
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The closeout crew just got the go-ahead to close the crew module hatch.
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Go for closing the hatch !!
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ET will pass over your area once just before 1600 GMT, way too much daylight.
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T-1 hour and counting... I'd say in this case no news is good news (regarding MMT)
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I was always under the impression that the shuttles audio was multiplexed into a digital datastream (with telemetry) which was then sent to ground. If not I have a high end scanner and roof aerial that has been missing shuttle voice passes for years and I'm going to try!:D
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William Harwood (CBS) has posted that the MMT has called off countdown today and will postpone launch for 24 hrs. Certainly seems to fly in the face of what we are seeing here. What gives?
CBS News Mission Status Report
a.m., 09/08/06, Update:
NASA's Mission Management Team called off the shuttle Atlantis' countdown today and delayed launch at least 24 hours because of concern about an apparently faulty low-level hydrogen fuel sensor in the ship's huge external tank.
It's not yet clear whether NASA can resolve the matter in time to make another attempt Saturday or whether the long-awaited and oft-delayed mission will slip to late this month - or next - because of a daylight launch constraint and conflict with a Russian mission to rotate crews on the international space station.
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html
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cabin leak checks being performed..
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CBS' Bill Harwood would know, so that's bad news. Nothing official or notes yet. NASA is still proceeding, but the MMT may take time to inform.
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Hatch is closed for flight...
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Well... make that: hatch is closed.
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No hint about a final decision from PAO George Diller, they're running a payload processing tape right now.
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Could be Bill Harwood prepping his story in case MMT says no-go... like those advance obituaries CNN has had in the past...
But not certain. Spaceflightnow not logging it yet.
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Given the site is very busy, I don't want anyone posting, unless it is a news update.
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I'm surprised they would have the hatch be closed and then call a scrub for this issue if they were discussing it for several hours before crew ingress. I would think the decision would be made before they closed the hatch. Nothing on NASA TV or Spaceflight Now, nor on CNN's website about a scrub yet.
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Official clock is still running on the NASA site...
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backspace - 8/9/2006 2:59 PM
Could be Bill Harwood prepping his story in case MMT says no-go... like those advance obituaries CNN has had in the past...
We all prep articles, but never as published. Doesn't make sense if that was so.
Meanwhile:
C&T/S-Band, Ku-Band high power (-----)
power amp activated
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kneecaps - 8/9/2006 2:49 PM
I was always under the impression that the shuttles audio was multiplexed into a digital datastream (with telemetry) which was then sent to ground. If not I have a high end scanner and roof aerial that has been missing shuttle voice passes for years and I'm going to try!:D
Via Ku-band, yes, but on the way up and on the way down it's UHF military airband.
Try www.uhf-satcom.com/sounds - you'll also notice that people are scanning another NASA radio net, in the clear, unencrypted, straight off a satellite... Wolfhound, DoD Cape, Cape Osbourne, etc etc. Very cool.
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Answer to the question of audio downlinking; Air-to-Grounds -1 and -2 are multiplexed into the 196kb/sec S-Band and Ku-Band Channel-1 telemetry streams (telemetry from the Pulse Code Modulation Multiplexer Units - aka PCMMU's (pronounced Pukka-MOOs) within the Network Signal Processor (NSP), which then sends the baseband signals to the transponders.. You may reference the Flight Directors Console Handbook, Section 3.3, COMM, for a good schematic of the S-Band System
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Once again ONLY NEWS UPDATES IN HERE.
PV&D Nominal (cheinol)
All PV&D systems nominal.
ECLSS Cabin equalization seen at 16.88 psi
PS Good info above Charlie!
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George Diller just reported (I'm paraphrasing) that the MMT was off in splinter discussions, but would be getting back together with a decision shortly.
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Confirmed. We are NOT at a scrub at this time.
There is a poll coming in a few minutes which might end up being a scrub though, but everyone speaking to me is that there's not a scrub at this time.
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Harwood has pulled his story down. I note the original did not have a timestamp. Boo-boo in posting I believe.
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Bill Harwood's earlier post has been pulled down!
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 10:11 AM
Confirmed. We are NOT at a scrub at this time.
There is a poll coming in a few minutes which might end up being a scrub though, but everyone speaking to me is that there's not a scrub at this time.
FWIW, the item on Bill Harwood's site is gone.
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The UHF voice comes from tha Audio interface boxes which are connected to the UHF transmitter, and the NSPs. Panel A1R is the panel that has the audio controls for the crew to operate; normally the INCO and his/her backroom operates the comm during flight - crew basicly is hands off - except for TV ops during critical phases).
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They certainly aren't acting like there's going to be a scrub
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CNN is reporting that a scrub is "likely" due to the ECO sensor.
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From CBS
Editor's Note...
Dummy copy indicating a launch scrub was inadvertently posted here earlier this morning. We apologize for the filing error.
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Austin - 8/9/2006 10:15 AM
CNN is reporting that a scrub is "likely" due to the ECO sensor.
I believe that is old (a few hours old) speculation and I'm not sure I'd rely on a pseudo-wire-story.
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Poll on 3 of 4 (=======)
Performed poll of MPS PRT on go/nogo on 3 of 4 sensors today.(Three managers) all GO on 3 of 4. MPS Safety also GO. No dissenting opinions from PRT, or on OPO loop. Passed info on to OPO Manager.
RCS OMS Engine Gn2 press for flight (franfusc)
Both OMS Engine Gn2 Accumulators were pressurized for launch.
Boeing Safety ECO Sensor Data Request (====)
====== requested Light Weight ET ECO Sensor failure history from MER Safety console.
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psloss - 8/9/2006 4:24 PM
Austin - 8/9/2006 10:15 AM
CNN is reporting that a scrub is "likely" due to the ECO sensor.
I believe that is old (a few hours old) speculation and I'm not sure I'd rely on a pseudo-wire-story.
That's why I'm urging everyone to stop posting speculations from other sites. If there's a scrub, Chris will have note of it. And we're going to hear from a official source on NASA TV.
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psloss - 8/9/2006 7:24 AM
Austin - 8/9/2006 10:15 AM
CNN is reporting that a scrub is "likely" due to the ECO sensor.
I believe that is old (a few hours old) speculation and I'm not sure I'd rely on a pseudo-wire-story.
Trust me, I take what the cable news stations report with a grain of salt.
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Sounds like MCC is doing ascent checklist updates with the crew.
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NASA S&MA ICE Team Report - No issues
(Will keep saying this. Do not post unless it's a news update).
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Austin - 8/9/2006 10:28 AM
Trust me, I take what the cable news stations report with a grain of salt.
The web site is under a heavy load today, that's why Chris and Dave are asking for restraint in terms of posts -- especially in this case where you're saying that it's not newsworthy, so therefore, it's not necessary to post it here.
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Unfortunately, it sounds like we've lost the launch team audio...
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Whew -- came back, but I missed the T-20 minute briefing. Anyone catch what the LOX drainback hold time was?
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there goes the close out crew....
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FCS HW MER poll in progress;
Flight Controllers are GO
ATCS is GO
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Should have something to pass along in a few minutes -- after the JSC status report here in the hold.
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T-9 minutes and holding.
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Decision expected shortly re: ET ECO sensor
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MCC is go. Still could be a sting in the tail with the ECOs, I'm hearing.
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Given the site load, I'm going to stop posting now and throw it back to Chris and Dave for further updates. (Feel free to delete this after you read it, Chris.)
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scrub@
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24 Hour Scrub turnaround.
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There's the sting in the tail. That's come from Wayne Hale....everyone was go. ET angry as there's absolutely no difference with tomorrow's attempt.
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A poll of the MMT showed a majority wanted to fly today.
Flight Crew systems was the one decenting vote,
However MPS integration of JSC engineering did not want to accept the LCC waiver, hence they were no-go. subsequent to the poll, the MMT chairman opted to detank and try again tomorrow.
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ECO Sensor:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/157006main_122488main_ECO_sensors.jpg
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I concur with Wayne Hale that it's better to have a confirmed failure of a sensor instead of a unknown behaviour.
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We're going to registered users only as we're being hit hundreds of times a second. Impossible for the servers.
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How many cryo cycles does that make for this tank?
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chksix - 8/9/2006 4:08 PM
I concur with Wayne Hale that it's better to have a confirmed failure of a sensor instead of a unknown behaviour.
It would have been better to scrub before tanking began. The stress on the foam could cause problems of its own.
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Arr the old "denial of service attack" trick, thats caused by being the best site for launch information. Watch the registered user uptake now :)
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Obvious question is 'What's different tomorrow about the ECO sensors by just retanking again?'
It will probably be all they can do without replacing them.
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astrobrian - 8/9/2006 5:13 PM
How many cryo cycles does that make for this tank?
One so far. STS-121 flew with three cryo cycles on the ET.
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as I understand it, they just want to know that the sensors work/fail the same way tomorrow as they did today.. otherwise it would be an erratic unexplained anomaly, whitch is not good
..but yea.. I sure hoped to see a launch today :(
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 4:18 PM
astrobrian - 8/9/2006 5:13 PM
How many cryo cycles does that make for this tank?
One so far. STS-121 flew with three cryo cycles on the ET.
I thought it was a lot more! Sure feels like it:)
The crew must be feeling a bit battered as well.
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I haven't left for my camping trip yet, so I'm back here to digest this information.
The thinking, as I understand it, is that a 24 hour scrub turnaround would allow them to check if the same sensor fails tomorrow, hence isolating the problem to a single source?
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Not so worried about the foam stress. ET-119 went through three fills and two drains before it flew and it's foam performance was excellent. I'm afraid if they keep getting cold feet they'll never get off the ground. This sucks.
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They want to repeat the failure but also more time to verify everything that relates to the ECO.
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Ok, guests back in. Our webteam worked a solution.
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The LCC rules for tomorow say:
- If everything works like normal, launch
- If the same sensor fails WET, launch
- Else SCRUB and do trubleshooting (could be everything from swaping point sensor box to roll-back and de-stacking)
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 4:25 PM
Ok, guests back in. Our webteam worked a solution.
Was it "stop using IIS and get a Linux/Apache/PHP solution"?
*dons flameproof suit!*
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Glad they have that rationale already from STS-114s ECOS failure! Hopefully we'll see the same results for the second attempt!
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Will they put a cover back on the truster, since rain was forecast for the afternoon, and thunderstorms as well...
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jacqmans - 8/9/2006 10:31 AM
Will they put a cover back on the truster, since rain was forecast for the afternoon, and thunderstorms as well...
Doubt it...that would mean rolling the RSS back and forth from parking positions and could be big trouble for the schedule.
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elmarko - 8/9/2006 5:29 PM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 4:25 PM
Ok, guests back in. Our webteam worked a solution.
Was it "stop using IIS and get a Linux/Apache/PHP solution"?
*dons flameproof suit!*
Looks like it was to turn of auto-loading of pictures attatched, and turn off avetars
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Some ET people are very happy NASA stuck to the LCC on the ECO sensors.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 4:43 PM
Some ET people are very happy NASA stuck to the LCC on the ECO sensors.
I can understand that but it seems to me they are not going to do any additional testing of the ECO sensors? Just re-tank and if the sensor fails 'WET' then it's all ok???
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Gary - 8/9/2006 10:46 AM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 4:43 PM
Some ET people are very happy NASA stuck to the LCC on the ECO sensors.
I can understand that but it seems to me they are not going to do any additional testing of the ECO sensors? Just re-tank and if the sensor fails 'WET' then it's all ok???
Right. But it has to be the SAME sensor and it has to fail WET. Any other conditions will result in another scrub.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 11:43 AM
Some ET people are very happy NASA stuck to the LCC on the ECO sensors.
As they should be. You sort out the LCC when you're calm and not under the pressure of launch day. Last time they had ECO funnies, they thought about this, and devised a procedure and criteria they wanted to apply if they saw it again, and developed rationale for getting comfortable flying with it, so that's what they're going to do. That's the way the system is supposed to work.
Hale is running this show pretty much by the numbers. Kudos to him. I want to see Bill Harwood tell him he has "Go Fever" today at the post-scrub presser.
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How many launches have been scrubed due to ECO sensors now...
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Chris, Mark, Phillip, Dave, web-team (dșżșb), others overlooked...
My one-time feedback: I never imagined I'd find such a rich spaceflight resource online -- obviously I failed my own exploring for too long.
Kudos for flyin a steady ball so proficiently, efficiently and SO informatively -- and for keeping the flocks and (us «8ș) "VFR pilots" off your wing (first things first). Not only is NSF exemplary itself, it exemplifies the extraordinary "everyday" accomplishments of NASA and partners (no matter where it's rattling along that nauseating popularity roller-coaster).
Strapped in, visor down.
Salut,
JimB
"neo" (near earth, ..occasionally)
oșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșoșo
reach beyond
revive the vision
revisit the moon
rediscover ourselves
& drop by Mars on the way.
i'll leave a light on for ya.
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Avron - 8/9/2006 5:49 PM
How many launches have been scrubed due to ECO sensors now...
2. 114 and now 115.
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Avron - 8/9/2006 5:49 PM
How many launches have been scrubed due to ECO sensors now...
Only this attempt and the first attempt by STS-114, so that's two...
They also had ECO problemes with ET-120 on STS-114 tanking test.
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Hopefully that sensor will give a good reading tomorrow like it did in July 2005. Kinda sad thinkin' that this tank had it's sensor swapped to avoid this!!
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Well, they put in the best they had from the batch. No guarantees.
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Let's face it... Atlantis isn't meant to fly anytime before Fall... The machine is trying to tell us something... ;)
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How can a sensor fail one day and work the next day. I have never understood that about the ECO sensors. And who is to say a sensor is not going to fail during assent.
Just one more reason we need Orion, about the only scrub worry we will have with that ship is weather and perhaps something with the 2nd stage.
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Any information, when the post-scrub briefing is due?
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Zoomer30 - 8/9/2006 10:59 AM
How can a sensor fail one day and work the next day. I have never understood that about the ECO sensors. And who is to say a sensor is not going to fail during assent.
Just one more reason we need Orion, about the only scrub worry we will have with that ship is weather and perhaps something with the 2nd stage.
No one knows. It happened last summer and will hopefully happen tomorrow morning. Guess we'll find out!
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Zoomer30 - 8/9/2006 5:59 PM
Just one more reason we need Orion, about the only scrub worry we will have with that ship is weather and perhaps something with the 2nd stage.
The 2nd stage of Orion will also have ECO sensors. ;)
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dutch courage - 8/9/2006 11:07 AM
Zoomer30 - 8/9/2006 5:59 PM
Just one more reason we need Orion, about the only scrub worry we will have with that ship is weather and perhaps something with the 2nd stage.
The 2nd stage of Orion will also have ECO sensors. ;)
Maybe they can put six or eight on this one so they don't have a problem with redundancy worries ;)
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So what's the next big failure for the next attempt? Any predictions?
Somthing tell's me APUs but could be other stuff. Atleast tommorw's weather was reported to be 20% Chance no-go
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briefing at 12:30 pm
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uko - 8/9/2006 5:01 PM
Any information, when the post-scrub briefing is due?
12:45pm EDT
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jacqmans - 8/9/2006 11:27 AM
briefing at 12:30 pm
now NET 1245 EDT (1645 GMT)
oops, someone beat me to it
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Who was that saying the alphabet? He wasn't even getting it right o_O
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Ok did anyone catch that weird sound test?
He looked rather annoyed eh?
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I just got home from work. What happened now?
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MarkD - 8/9/2006 11:36 AM
I just got home from work. What happened now?
In short:
Bad ECO Sensor. Try again tomorrow. If same failure...fly with 3 of 4. Launch at 11:15 AM EDT. Press briefing coming up.
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Not again *rolls eyes* I thought that problem was fixed?
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MarkD - 8/9/2006 12:43 PM
Not again *rolls eyes* I thought that problem was fixed?
Obviously not. Remember, this is mostly different hardware. Definitely a new ET and sensors and a different orbiter, but also possibly a different orbiter point sensor box -- not sure about where the PSB hardware "rotation" left things after last year.
Thing is, even though I believe this would still be classified as a UA, they have spent a lot of time since the STS-114 launch campaign preparing for this scenario.
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So, what now? Is this an electrical problem or something more serious?
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Bill and Mike are taking no prisoners. Wayne Hale seems really surprised.
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"NASA is not a democracy". What a quote! :)
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MarkD - 8/9/2006 12:55 PM
So, what now? Is this an electrical problem or something more serious?
Review Chris's article, it basically describes the plan they are following:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4583
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KSC workers call Atlantis 'the Penguin'..."it's black and white and never flies." Hi-larious. :)
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punkboi - 8/9/2006 1:03 PM
KSC workers call Atlantis 'the Penguin'..."it's black and white and never flies." Hi-larious. :)
Columbia was the first orbiter to have that joke told about it, at least back in the 90s.
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Sounds like they got a new data point in terms of the system behavior.
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psloss - 8/9/2006 6:07 PM
Sounds like they got a new data point in terms of the system behavior.
Agreed. Personally I support this scrub. Not sure why some media are being pretty confortational, bar the fact that they had very good questions - to the point where it compares with some of the really dull questions we tend to see at JSC.
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this mission probably had the most scrubs, huh?
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spaceshuttle - 8/9/2006 6:11 PM
this mission probably had the most scrubs, huh?
Not by a long shot!
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:13 PM
spaceshuttle - 8/9/2006 6:11 PM
this mission probably had the most scrubs, huh?
Not by a long shot!
oh, that's right. 73 has that record....WHOOPS!
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spaceshuttle - 8/9/2006 6:14 PM
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:13 PM
spaceshuttle - 8/9/2006 6:11 PM
this mission probably had the most scrubs, huh?
Not by a long shot!
oh, that's right. 73 has that record....WHOOPS!
I've got the feeling that you're counting delays etc. STS-115 has only suffered one late scrub...as in tanking had started.
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The reason the press is being so confrontational is because they've got supervisors telling them, "get me a damned story!"
Truth: there is no story. The MMT is merely following their own guidelines.
Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 12:10 PM
psloss - 8/9/2006 6:07 PM
Sounds like they got a new data point in terms of the system behavior.
Agreed. Personally I support this scrub. Not sure why some media are being pretty confortational, bar the fact that they had very good questions - to the point where it compares with some of the really dull questions we tend to see at JSC.
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Interesting that they've instrumented OV-105 to collect more data on this when it goes into a tanking next year.
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Wow, I guess Seth is not a complete loss -- asked about the F3L Tyvek issue.
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psloss - 8/9/2006 7:21 PM
Wow, I guess Seth is not a complete loss -- asked about the F3L Tyvek issue.
Yes. It was interesting that LeRoy asked about possibility of having RSS rolled around the vehicle to replace lost Tyvek cover for F3L. I thought that the schedule for a 24-turnaround didn't allow for that.
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 1:23 PM
psloss - 8/9/2006 7:21 PM
Wow, I guess Seth is not a complete loss -- asked about the F3L Tyvek issue.
Yes. It was interesting that LeRoy asked about possibility of having RSS rolled around the vehicle to replace lost Tyvek cover for F3L. I thought that the schedule for a 24-turnaround didn't allow for that.
I recall they did that to snag a lost "pip pin" that dropped onto the aft ET attach struts for STS-92 (10 October 2000 launch attempt into the next one)...the problem is that they may not get the RSS back before the rain starts...
Leroy Cain is saying he thinks it's not an insurmountable problem...
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Uh oh, Wayne Hale's underwear manifest is indeed in trouble :)
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Chris, do we have a L2 document on the redundant systems for the WH UM? :)
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 1:10 PM
Agreed. Personally I support this scrub. Not sure why some media are being pretty confortational, bar the fact that they had very good questions - to the point where it compares with some of the really dull questions we tend to see at JSC.
I think this management team -- or at least the management as composed with the folks in their current chairs -- is harder for us armchair folks to figure out. (IMO, the press is in this category.)
Slightly rephrased, it doesn't have anything to do with the judgment calls the program is making, it's that we can't figure them out, which appears to be disorienting...
That's my speculation on the press reaction...
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triddirt - 8/9/2006 6:37 PM
Chris, do we have a L2 document on the redundant systems for the WH UM? :)
Yes, in the Laundry 2 section ;)
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Would WHUM be an official term now??? :) And how would you scrub those ??? ;)
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triddirt - 8/9/2006 1:37 PM
Chris, do we have a L2 document on the redundant systems for the WH UM? :)
ummm ... for the education of those of us who are at work and can't see NASA TV, and who are not in the press or work at NASA ... coudl someone please tell me what this "Underwear Manifest" is!? :o
pat----
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Wayne Hale made a comment the other day about having enough clean articles of clothing to go through the entire launch window, Saturday was originally out of the window so his manifest is going to need a recharge hehe
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Chris, could you check with your ET sources what the status of the ECO sensors are now that they have drained the ET?
If they all went "dry" when the ET was drained it would indicate that they do have a good set of sensors and that they can proceed with a launch tommorow if LH2 sensor#3 would fail "wet" again.
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i am sure Wayne can find a 24-hour Wal mart around there if need be
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And has anyone heard anything on the fuel cell of late?
Mark
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Mark Nguyen - 8/9/2006 9:19 PM
And has anyone heard anything on the fuel cell of late?
Mark
FC#1 operated nominally throughout the countdown. No problems noted on it when the scrub was called during T-9 minute hold.
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astrobrian - 8/9/2006 2:34 PM
Wayne Hale made a comment the other day about having enough clean articles of clothing to go through the entire launch window, Saturday was originally out of the window so his manifest is going to need a recharge hehe
We could have a pair of underwear and socks delivered to him with a card, "Re: 09/06/06 MMT press briefing, courtesy of NASAspaceflight.com"
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Okay everybody is worried about WH UW, Wayne is going to have to wait behind me for the washing machine
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DaveS - 8/9/2006 8:12 PM
Chris, could you check with your ET sources what the status of the ECO sensors are now that they have drained the ET?
If they all went "dry" when the ET was drained it would indicate that they do have a good set of sensors and that they can proceed with a launch tommorow if LH2 sensor#3 would fail "wet" again.
They all started work in the early hours, so no one is around who worked on the tank for this launch. Seeing what I can find out from KSC.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 10:36 PM
They all started work in the early hours, so no one is around who worked on the tank for this launch. Seeing what I can find out from KSC.
Thanks. I just hope that we will either see the same failure tommorow or 4 working sensors.
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FWIW, Bill Harwood's latest update ("04:00 p.m., 09/08/06, Update: Launch delayed by ECO sensor failure; Hale says team made right decision") says LH2 ECO #3 continued to show wet during drain after the other three went dry "as expected":
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html
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Good. That saves a search and a half. Also I'll be able to write my Sat launch preview article with basis on the ECO troubleshoot document we've got on L2.
Remember, we don't - via sources - think it's the sensor, we think it's wiring between the PSB and the sensor....but excluding it and bringing in the 3/4 LCC as per troubleshoot is at least hopeful for tomorrow.
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Well that answers my question. Same behaviour as after the first scrub of STS-114, but different LH2 sensor. I wonder if this was an expected behaviour?
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Ironic image from Sky News TV (the best Shuttle coverage by mass media by far)
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Well, I don't think they're going to do any RSS operations. Those are generally done during the T-11 hold which ends in about an hour.
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"I wonder if this was an expected behaviour?"
Is your question -- Did they expect this sensor to fail? Of course not.
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rdale - 8/9/2006 11:27 PM
"I wonder if this was an expected behaviour?"
Is your question -- Did they expect this sensor to fail? Of course not.
Not the question. Question was in reponse to that sensor#3 remained "wet" even after draining operations.
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Chris Bergin - 8/9/2006 4:54 PM
Remember, we don't - via sources - think it's the sensor, we think it's wiring between the PSB and the sensor....but excluding it and bringing in the 3/4 LCC as per troubleshoot is at least hopeful for tomorrow.
Assuming I heard it correctly, I thought one of the interesting comments from the briefing relating to this was what Leroy Cain said about the theory that cryogenic conditions are a factor in this behavior and that the timing of the initial failure pointed to one side of the monoball versus the other...
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David
Do you have a time for comming out of the T-11 hold?
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6:25 pm EDT(2225 UTC).
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Here's how I have it -- all EDT -- based on a target T-0 of 11:09 am (window open, rounded "back" to the minute), a one-hour hold at T-6 hours, and then everything else "standard":
T-11 hours counting: 7:19 pm
T-6 hours holding: 12:19 am
T-6 hours counting: 1:19 am
T-3 hours holding: 4:19 am
T-3 hours counting: 7:19 am
T-20 min. holding: 9:59 am
T-20 min. counting: 10:09 am
T-9 min. holding: 10:20 am
(Can't confirm, but that's the way I have it.)