NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Chinese Launchers => Topic started by: Satori on 08/31/2016 08:33 pm
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Xiaoxiang-1 is a 8 kg CubeSat-6U to be launched in November 2016 by the second Long March-11 solid fuel rocket.
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China to launch pioneering pulsar navigation satellite in November (http://gbtimes.com/china/china-launch-pioneering-pulsar-navigation-satellite-november).
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More details and an actual satellite image:
http://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/XPNAV/XPNAV-1.html
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What is the connection between pulsar-based navigation and high-bandwidth communication? Both the gbtimes article referenced in the first post and the NASA SEXTANT description assert it exists:
From gbtimes:
using the highly regular emissions from pulsars [...] could dramatically cut the reliance of craft in deep space on the huge ground-based communications networks
and from NASA:
X-ray based technologies capable of providing accurate navigation and high bandwidth communications
https://gameon.nasa.gov/projects/deep-space-x-ray-navigation-and-communication/
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China to launch X-ray pulsar navigation satellite in November (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-10/14/c_135752238.htm).
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XPNAV-1 to be launched from Jiuquan by a CZ-11.
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There are rumors pointing to this launch moving up to before the end of this month, although this isn't confirmed.
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Launch to take place in mid November.
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According to ChinaSpaceflight, XPNAV-1 is already at Jiuquan. Xiaoxiang-1 has not been shipped to Jiuquan (yet?).
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According to ChinaSpaceflight.com, three Lishui-1 satellites will be launched in mid-November: https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/Zhejiang-LIZHUI/Lishui-1.html (in Chinese).
Probably the satellites will be launch on the next CZ-11.
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Xiaoxang-1 sent to Jiuquan. Still aiming to be on the CZ-11 in mid November.
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Xiaoxang-1 sent to Jiuquan. Still aiming to be on the CZ-11 in mid November.
According to chinaspaceflight.com the launch will happen in early November with 5 satellites on board.
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Xiaoxang-1 sent to Jiuquan. Still aiming to be on the CZ-11 in mid November.
According to chinaspaceflight.com the launch will happen in early November with 5 satellites on board.
Probably the XPNAV-1, Xiaoxiang-1 and the three Lishui-1 small sats.
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Current rumors point to a 11/11 launch date for the II launch of the CZ-11. ;)
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Current rumors point to a 11/11 launch date for the II launch of the CZ-11. ;)
At 11:11:11 local time? ;)
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Current rumors point to a 11/11 launch date for the II launch of the CZ-11. ;)
At 11:11:11 local time? ;)
Too many elevens.
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Current rumors point to a 11/11 launch date for the II launch of the CZ-11. ;)
At 11:11:11 local time? ;)
Too many elevens.
11h 11m 11s.
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Chinaspacefligh.com reports that this launch will have seven small sats on board.
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Chinaspacefligh.com reports that this launch will have seven small sats on board.
The seven sats on this launch will possibly be:
- XPNAV-1
- Xiaoxiang-1
- Three Lishui-1 sats
- Yunhai-1
- Luojia-1
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Still no NOTAM's for this launch, but sources say it will go on the 11th.
In the mean time, trying to identify the satellites on board the CZ-11 (Y2)... We know that XPNAV-1 and Xiaoxiang-1 will be on this launch. Also, Chinaspaceflight.com is reporting that the three Lishui-1 sats will also be launched on this mission.
We know that there will be seven sats on CZ-11, so we have five of them. Rumors point to a satellite named Kexing-1 (?).
Any idea about the satellites missing here?
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Still no NOTAM's for this launch, but sources say it will go on the 11th.
In the mean time, trying to identify the satellites on board the CZ-11 (Y2)... We know that XPNAV-1 and Xiaoxiang-1 will be on this launch. Also, Chinaspaceflight.com is reporting that the three Lishui-1 sats will also be launched on this mission.
We know that there will be seven sats on CZ-11, so we have five of them. Rumors point to a satellite named Kexing-1 (?).
Any idea about the satellites missing here?
I still have to check on that, but......
..........apparently that thing has launched already (!). :o Liftoff was at 23:42 UTC on the 9th.
Edit: Official news said that only 5 satellites are on board.
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Still no NOTAM's for this launch, but sources say it will go on the 11th.
In the mean time, trying to identify the satellites on board the CZ-11 (Y2)... We know that XPNAV-1 and Xiaoxiang-1 will be on this launch. Also, Chinaspaceflight.com is reporting that the three Lishui-1 sats will also be launched on this mission.
We know that there will be seven sats on CZ-11, so we have five of them. Rumors point to a satellite named Kexing-1 (?).
Any idea about the satellites missing here?
I still have to check on that, but......
..........apparently that thing has launched already (!). :o Liftoff was at 23:42 UTC on the 9th.
Upsi!
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Rui's article :)
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/11/second-long-march-11-five-satellites/
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http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2016-11-10/doc-ifxxsfip4329847.shtml
says 5 sats, including
脉冲星试验卫星 (Maichong xing shiyan weixing = pulsar test satellite)
and one (?) Lishui-1 satellite
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http://news.china.com.cn/2016-11/10/content_39673982.htm
makes it look like they are 3U (or possibly 2U?) cubesats
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China launches pulsar test satellite (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-11/10/c_135819366.htm).
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I'm not sure, but it looks like the CZ-11 fourth stage is acting also as an active payload (KS-1Q) or carried some sort of payload for monitoring the launchers performance.
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I'm not sure, but it looks like the CZ-11 fourth stage is acting also as an active payload (KS-1Q) or carried some sort of payload for monitoring the launchers performance.
It seems that the Chinese counted only 1 Lishui-1 satellite (either only one flew or the other two will separate later, dunno which is which).....
One of the others not mentioned yet is a ham radio payload named CAS-2T: http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-November/061126.html (http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-November/061126.html) The payload was built by high school students from Fengtai district of Beijing City (http://edu.youth.cn/jyzx/jyxw/201611/t20161110_8832823.htm).
The one you mentioned above is indeed another non-separated payload (https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/CAS-2T.html), from a private company in Guangdong. The company is testing out various components like a camera, optical communication and sensors measuring the parameters of the flight to orbit, among other things.
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I'm not sure, but it looks like the CZ-11 fourth stage is acting also as an active payload (KS-1Q) or carried some sort of payload for monitoring the launchers performance.
It seems that the Chinese counted only 1 Lishui-1 satellite (either only one flew or the other two will separate later, dunno which is which).....
One of the others not mentioned yet is a ham radio payload named CAS-2T: http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-November/061126.html (http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-November/061126.html) The payload was built by high school students from Fengtai district of Beijing City (http://edu.youth.cn/jyzx/jyxw/201611/t20161110_8832823.htm).
The one you mentioned above is indeed another non-separated payload (https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/CAS-2T.html), from a private company in Guangdong. The company is testing out various components like a camera, optical communication and sensors measuring the parameters of the flight to orbit, among other things.
Great! Thanks, GP!
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AMSAT is reporting that CAS-2T is not intended to separate from the 4th stage.
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So, we have the XPNAV-1, the Xiaoxiang-1, the Lishui-1 sat(s), the CAS-2T payload and the KS-1Q payload.
Can this be the five 'stars' on the CZ-11?
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My count is as follows:
(1) XPNAV-1 by Shenzhen DFH;
(2) Xiaoxiang-1 by a Hunan Changsha-based Tianyi company;
(3) Lishui-1, one 3U cubesat by Zhejiang Lizhui Electronic Technology Co. Ltd.;
(4) Pina-2 cubesat by (main) Aerospace DFH;
(5) a joint student-developed Fengtai Junior One and Juvenile Dream One payload from Beijing, probably with CAS-2T inside.
The latter seems to be a non-sep but it's too early for reliable conclusion.
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(4) Pina-2 cubesat by (main) Aerospace DFH;
Do you have more info regarding Pina-2?
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(4) Pina-2 cubesat by (main) Aerospace DFH;
Do you have more info regarding Pina-2?
Essentially nothing:
据悉，此次发射还搭载了[航天东方红]抓总研制的[微纳卫星皮纳二号]，开展集体科学技术试验。
It is reported that the launch is also equipped with a [Aerospace Dongfanghong] grasping the total development of the [micro-nano-satellite Pina No. 2], to carry out collective scientific and technological experiments.
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(4) Pina-2 cubesat by (main) Aerospace DFH;
Do you have more info regarding Pina-2?
Essentially nothing:
据悉，此次发射还搭载了[航天东方红]抓总研制的[微纳卫星皮纳二号]，开展集体科学技术试验。
It is reported that the launch is also equipped with a [Aerospace Dongfanghong] grasping the total development of the [micro-nano-satellite Pina No. 2], to carry out collective scientific and technological experiments.
A tweet from Chinaspaceflight.com:
【CZ-11】发射的5颗卫星：XPNAV-1，Xiaoxiang-1，Lishui-1；CAS-2T，KS-1Q 最后2个和上面级不分离。
There is no reference to Pina-2, but Pina-2 can be one of the payloads (CAS-2T?)
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Complicating the fact is that a CCTV reporter apparently tweeted that 2 satellites were withdrawn before launch due to their own problems (which would seems to confirm the original 7 satellites rumor a day ago). And I dunno which is which..... :-X
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Complicating the fact is that a CCTV reporter apparently tweeted that 2 satellites were withdrawn before launch due to their own problems (which would seems to confirm the original 7 satellites rumor a day ago). And I dunno which is which..... :-X
In some aspects we may have some confusion between the definition of 'satellite' and 'payload'.
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Further confusing the issue: 6 objects now cataloged, 4 of them in 490 x 512 km orbits and 2 in 504 x 1030 km orbits.
This suggests 5 payloads and the rocket stage. On the first flight the stage 4 RCS lowered perigee, this time
it increased apogee and another payload was dropped off after the burn.
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10.11.2016 - 07:42 Beijing Time - Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre (JSLC), Transporter Erector Launchers (TEL), CZ-11/"Chang Zheng-11" — "XPNAV-1"/ "Xiaoxiang-1"/ "Lishui 1-01"/ "Kechuang"(KS-1Q) / "CAS 2T"
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10.11.2016 - 07:42 Beijing Time - Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre (JSLC), Transporter Erector Launchers (TEL), CZ-11/"Chang Zheng-11" — "XPNAV-1"/ "Xiaoxiang-1"/ "Lishui 1-01"/ "Kechuang"(KS-1Q) / "CAS 2T"
The fourth image (3U cubesat / 1478739987750250.jpg) shows the Canadian ExAlta satellite and is not related to this launch.
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CZ-11/"Chang Zheng-11"
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10.11.2016 - 07:42 Beijing Time - Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre (JSLC), Transporter Erector Launchers (TEL), CZ-11/"Chang Zheng-11" — "XPNAV-1"/ "Xiaoxiang-1"/ "Lishui 1-01"/ "Kechuang"(KS-1Q) / "CAS 2T"
So, one sat just has 4 names?
CAS-2T <=> Pina-2 (皮纳二号) <=> Fengtai-1 (丰台一号) <=> Mengxiang-1 (梦想一号)
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Pina 2 is an Aerospace DFH payload, the other three are different names for the Fengtai schools payload?
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Further confusing the issue: 6 objects now cataloged, 4 of them in 490 x 512 km orbits and 2 in 504 x 1030 km orbits.
This suggests 5 payloads and the rocket stage. On the first flight the stage 4 RCS lowered perigee, this time
it increased apogee and another payload was dropped off after the burn.
Hmm, perhaps a more likely interpretation:
3 payloads in low orbit
1 rocket stage in low orbit, with 2 attached payloads
2 debris objects (stage separation motor covers) in elliptical orbit
This seems to match the Chinese press reports better, although I still am unclear whether 浙江利骓科技三颗立方星
means "Zhejiang Lizhui Keji 3U cubesat" or "three Zhejiang Lizhui Keji cubesats".
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CAS-2T and KS-1Q are the two attached payloads, which remained on the upper stage. Fengtai-1 appears to be the altenate name of CAS-2T
https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/fengtai-shaonian-01.html
https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/KS-1Q.html
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Second (or 3rd?) stage remains crashed in Burma: www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/XPNAV/XPNAV1-launch.html
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Video of the launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKt6seIUzUU
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Video of the launch
Looks like a cgi-animation, not a real launch video.
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Video of the launch
Looks like a cgi-animation, not a real launch video.
Yes, it is a CGI animation, which was also used for the maiden CZ-11 launch.
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My amateur assumption. We know that two satellites were removed before launch. Maybe they have been replaced by mock-ups for keeping mass-inertial characteristics. Then four objects on low orbit are Xiaoxiang-1, Lishui 1 and two mock-ups, two objects on high orbit are XPNAV-1 and the fourth stage. Non-separated payloads on the fourth stage are CAS 2T and KS-1Q. And officially they have counted five "satellites": XPNAV-1, Xiaoxiang-1, Lishui 1 and two payloads CAS 2T and KS-1Q.
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CAS 2T seems to be object E:
http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?p=75971
This means final stage manoeuvred to the higher orbit.
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CAS-2T seems to be Object E
CAS-2T a technical verification satellite for CAMSAT CAS-2 series amateur radio satellite launched at 23:42 UT November 9, 2016 on a CZ-11 rocket. The 2U CubeSat, developed by students from Fengtai District, Xicheng and Haidian District secondary schools, carries a ham radio 145/435 MHz FM transponder. CAS-2T will not be separated from the final stage of rocket, so the orbital life may be 10 to 30 days before the final stage of the rocket re-enters the atmosphere.
On the AMSAT Bulletin Board Alan Kung BA1DU writes:
Amateur radio payloads:
CW Telemetry Beacon：435.710 MHz
FM Transponder Uplink：145.925 MHz
FM Transponder Downlink：435.615 MHz
Launch vehicle: CZ-11(Y2) solid rocket
Launch time: 23:42, 9-Nov-2016
Epoch time: +620.615 seconds
Inclination degree: 97.400985 degrees
RA of node degree:
Eccentricity: 1.77E-4
Perigee degree: 328.206969 degrees
Mean anomaly degree: 198.226766 degrees
Period: 5685.564 seconds
Speed: 7607.496391 m/s
Longitude: 93.693693E
Latitude: 13.531945N
73!
Alan Kung, BA1DU
CAMSAT
Associated links:
News report https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/fengtai-shaonian-01.html
Mike Rupprecht DK3WN – CAS-2T seems to be Object 2016-66E http://www.dk3wn.info/p/?p=75971
‘Keps’ for new satellites launched in past 30 days http://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/tle-new.txt
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Please tell me what kind of object 1 to 7 number?
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Of interest .....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37946718
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Second (or 3rd?) stage remains crashed in Burma: www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/XPNAV/XPNAV1-launch.html
My guess is that this is the second stage and the still-attached tapered interstage above. One story reported it at 4.5 x 1.2 meters. Perhaps the diameter was measured at the top of the interstage, since Stage 2 is supposed to be 2 meters diameter. (It looks wider than 1.2 meters at any rate, given the scale provided by the people standing nearby.) We may be looking at a composite case solid motor.
Seriously bad form dropping launch debris like this on another country, especially if unannounced. Was it unannounced? Was this even expected?
- Ed Kyle
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Of interest .....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37946718
More comprehensive report.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/11/large-metal-object-chinese-satellite-crashes-earth-myanmar
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First stage debris video:
https://twitter.com/cnspaceflight/status/797803357574336517
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I wonder WHY the Chinese are not releasing quality pictures of the launcher and TEL. The military applications are obvious, but still a puzzle for me.
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I wonder WHY the Chinese are not releasing quality pictures of the launcher and TEL. The military applications are obvious, but still a puzzle for me.
Why should they?
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They did it for every other type of the CZ series. I don't see the logic hiding this one.
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They did it for every other type of the CZ series. I don't see the logic hiding this one.
because CZ-11 uses the solid rocket motors from an active and modified DF-31 ICBM as the primary propulsion system of stages and China only tends to release after a long wait on only retired missiles and we only tend to find out about the added motors and not the ICBM motors used. Other examples of this is
DF-21 IRBM conversional launchers:
Kaituozhe-1 (KT-1)
Kuaizhou-1 (KZ-1)
Kuaizhou-1A (KZ-1A)
Fei Tian-1 (FT-1)
DF-31 ICBM conversional launchers:
Chang Zheng-11 (CZ-11)
Kaituozhe-2 (KT-2) Never flown and cancelled after KT-1 launch failures and replaced by CZ-11 project.
DF-41 ICBM conversional launchers:
None announced yet as this Next Generation multi-role ICBM (warheads: Conventional, Nuclear, ASAT, Kenetic, etc.) is still in active development.
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Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre (JSLC), a launching pad Transporter Erector Launchers (TEL), which were carried out solid-launches carrier rocket CZ-11 / "Chang Zheng-11"
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So with all the sources searched, we have:
500 km circular orbit: XPNAV-1 (object A), Xiaoxiang-1, Lishui-1 (one), Pina-2 (a couple of satellites not separated yet);
500x1000 km orbit: upper stage (object E), a mockup satellite (object F) and a fragment (object G).
Upper stage hosts KS-1Q and CAS-2T (aka Feitian-1 aka Mengxing-1 aka Feitiang Junior 1 and Junior Dream 1).
Xiaoxiang-1 should transmit in amateur bands.
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Oh well, I was too fast.
http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2016-November/061197.html
Alan Kung camsat at vip.163.com
Thu Nov 17 03:58:20 UTC 2016
2016-066D
Satellite Name: TY-1
Mission: Technical experiment
TT&C: 437.5MHz Bandwith 300kHz
2016-066E
Satellite Name: CAS-2T(Dream-1)
Mission: Education, Amateur radio, Technical experiment
CW Beacon: 435.710MHz
FM Transponder Uplink: 145.925MHz
FM Transponder Downlink: 435.615MHz
2016-066E
Satellite Name: KS-1Q
Mission: Technical experiment
TT&C: 436.5MHz 20kbps GMSK
2016-066F
Satellite Name: Pegasus-1
Mission: Technical experiment
TT&C: 468.0MHz FSK
73
Alan, BA1DU
Chinese Amateur Satellite Group(CAMSAT)
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Thanks Liss. Can you relate TY 1 and Pegasus 1 to the previous names?
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Thanks Liss. Can you relate TY 1 and Pegasus 1 to the previous names?
I believe that Pegasus 1 is a previously unknown name for the fifth satellite and TY-1 is another name for Xiaoxiang-1.
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Thanks Liss. This my current understanding of the satellites:
66A XPNAV 1 (Maichong Xing Shiyan Weixing)
66D Xiaoxiang 1 (TY 1)
66E CAS 2T (Dream 1, Feitian 1, Mengxing 1)
66E KS 1Q
66F Pegasus 1
66? Lishui-1 01
66? Pina 2
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That's my understanding too.
Also I believe Pina 2 is a 20 kg microsat similar to XW-2A of 2015.
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So with all the sources searched, we have:
500 km circular orbit: XPNAV-1 (object A), Xiaoxiang-1, Lishui-1 (one), Pina-2 (a couple of satellites not separated yet);
500x1000 km orbit: upper stage (object E), a mockup satellite (object F) and a fragment (object G).
Upper stage hosts KS-1Q and CAS-2T (aka Feitian-1 aka Mengxing-1 aka Feitiang Junior 1 and Junior Dream 1).
Xiaoxiang-1 should transmit in amateur bands.
Hmm, so it's sure that XX-1 and Lishui-1 are in the low orbit?
I had the impression from some sources that Pina-2 was yet another name for the CAS-2T payloads.
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So with all the sources searched, we have:
500 km circular orbit: XPNAV-1 (object A), Xiaoxiang-1, Lishui-1 (one), Pina-2 (a couple of satellites not separated yet);
500x1000 km orbit: upper stage (object E), a mockup satellite (object F) and a fragment (object G).
Upper stage hosts KS-1Q and CAS-2T (aka Feitian-1 aka Mengxing-1 aka Feitiang Junior 1 and Junior Dream 1).
Xiaoxiang-1 should transmit in amateur bands.
Hmm, so it's sure that XX-1 and Lishui-1 are in the low orbit?
I had the impression from some sources that Pina-2 was yet another name for the CAS-2T payloads.
Well, my logic is that all satellites with long scheduled life were intended for 500 km circular orbit. Lishui-1 and Xiaoxiang 1 are for sure such satellites, and I believe Pina-2 too -- and she is certainly not CAS-2T.
Short life payloads remained at the upper stage or were intended to be deployed to low orbit. The unknown Pegasus 1 is the only one that fits here and it ientification as object F makes sense. Of course in fact the stage went higher but this was not what was in plans.
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CZ-11 Y2
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I certainly like to see Zhang Liling again but how this image says this was Y2?
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Well, to fill the gaps -- there were Pina 2A and Pina 2B onboard according to the paper of Li Yandong in Space Technology (航天器工程), May 2017. Masses 30 kg each, 400mm cube, 20 W mean / 35 W peak.
These are obviously 2016-066C and 2016-066D.
XPNAV-1 is 2016-066A.
Xiaoxiang-1 could be 2016-066B or 2016-066F, Lishui-1 being the other one.