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SLS / Orion / Beyond-LEO HSF - Constellation => Orion and Exploration Vehicles => Topic started by: jacqmans on 08/24/2006 09:52 pm

Title: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: jacqmans on 08/24/2006 09:52 pm
Aug. 24, 2006

Michael Braukus/Beth Dickey
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1979/2087

Kelly Humphries
Johnson Space Center, Houston
281-483-5111

MEDIA ADVISORY: M06-137

NASA ANNOUNCES CONTRACTOR FOR ORION CREW EXPLORATION VEHICLE

NASA Exploration Systems' managers will host a press conference at 4
p.m. EDT Thursday, Aug. 31, to announce the prime contractor to
design, develop, and build Orion, America's next human spacecraft.

The press conference will be in the NASA headquarters auditorium, 300
E Street S.W., Washington. It will air live on the Web and on NASA
TV. Reporters may ask questions from participating NASA locations.
Reporters should coordinate with local agency centers by 4 p.m. EDT
Wednesday, Aug. 30 for access information.

Associate Administrator for the Exploration Systems Mission
Directorate Scott Horowitz, Exploration Deputy Associate
Administrator Doug Cooke, Constellation Program Manager Jeff Hanley,
and CEV Project Manager Caris A. (Skip) Hatfield will announce the
selection and discuss the program.

Orion is the vehicle NASA is developing to carry a new generation of
explorers back to the moon and later to Mars. Orion will succeed the
space shuttle as NASA's primary vehicle for human space exploration.
Orion's first flight with astronauts aboard is planned for no later
than 2014 to the International Space Station. Its first flight to the
moon is planned for no later than 2020.

For NASA TV streaming video, downlink and scheduling information,
visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

For information about NASA's Exploration Systems Mission Directorate
visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration


-end-

Title: RE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: space1999 on 08/26/2006 12:57 pm
Would anybody like to speculate who the winner might be and what their solution is ?   (I gather Its only a two horse race, Lockhead Martin and Boeing ).
Title: RE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: DaveS on 08/26/2006 01:35 pm
Quote
space1999 - 26/8/2006  2:44 PM

Would anybody like to speculate who the winner might be and what there solution is ?   (I gather Its only a two horse race, Lockhead Martin and Boeing ).
Actually the two lead competitors ofr the Orion contract is Lockheed-Martin and Northrup-Grumman.
Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: astrobrian on 08/26/2006 04:03 pm
Hopefully they dont have another slip up with the air to ground channel if they choose to pre record a statement from the ISS
Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: punkboi on 08/26/2006 04:21 pm

Quote
astrobrian - 26/8/2006 8:50 AM Hopefully they dont have another slip up with the air to ground channel if they choose to pre record a statement from the ISS

Haha... I don't think they're gonna try that again.  Or maybe they will...but with an STS-115 crewmember assuming Atlantis gets off sometime before Wednesday. ;)

Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: NASA_Twix_JSC on 08/30/2006 11:05 pm
Quote
astrobrian - 26/8/2006  10:50 AM

Hopefully they dont have another slip up with the air to ground channel if they choose to pre record a statement from the ISS

Although those on L2 already know :)
Title: RE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 08/30/2006 11:22 pm
Quote
space1999 - 26/8/2006  8:44 AM

Would anybody like to speculate who the winner might be and what their solution is ?  

I'm guessing that regardless of the winner, the solution will look something like a glorified Apollo capsule!   ;)
Title: RE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Mark Max Q on 08/31/2006 12:29 am
Quote
vt_hokie - 30/8/2006  6:09 PM

Quote
space1999 - 26/8/2006  8:44 AM

Would anybody like to speculate who the winner might be and what their solution is ?  

I'm guessing that regardless of the winner, the solution will look something like a glorified Apollo capsule!   ;)

As it should be, unless someone wishes to change physics.
Title: RE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 08/31/2006 02:00 am
I don't think that physics precludes other approaches, but economics probably does given NASA's budgetary restraints.  NASA simply cannot afford to venture into the unknown.  (As I recall, the original Apollo CM was one of several proposed shapes, including more complex lifting bodies, and was chosen essentially because it was the easiest, quickest route.)
Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: astrobrian on 08/31/2006 02:37 am

Quote
NASA_Twix_JSC - 30/8/2006  5:52 PM  
Quote
 Although those on L2 already know :)

Yup, L2 members have known for a week now who the winner is :) 

Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Spacely on 08/31/2006 07:04 am
Despite all the flim-flam regarding CLVs, EELVs, ESAS, and politics, politics, politics, it's nevertheless pretty amazing that in less than 16 hours the U.S. government will have picked a primary contractor for a new spaceship. This thing is actually going to be built. I remember January 2004 and thinking, "Man, VSE's great, but it's going to take forever for this thing to come together." Well, here we are. I wonder where we'll be in another 31 months.
Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Space Lizard on 08/31/2006 09:57 am
The Northrop-Grumman team includes Boeing.

This means they already did:

- X15 (as North American)
- Mercury (as McDonnell)
- Gemini (as McDonnell)
- Apollo CSM (as North American)
- Apollo LM (as Grumman)
- Skylab (as McDD)
- Shuttle Orbiter (as Rockwell)
- Spacehab (as McDD)
- ISS Modules (as Boeing)

Meanwhile, Lockheed Martin's backlog is far less impressive:
- X-23 "PRIME" (as Martin)
- X-33??? (ahem!)
Title: Re: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 11:18 am
Quote
astrobrian - 30/8/2006  10:24 PM

Quote
NASA_Twix_JSC - 30/8/2006  5:52 PM  Although those on L2 already know :)

Yup, L2 members have known for a week now who the winner is :)


Don't count on it

EDIT:
Let me rephrase this.   No one really knows, outside a very few.
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 04:02 pm
We'll carry the announcement here live.

Smart money is on Boeing/NG.
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: SimonShuttle on 08/31/2006 04:06 pm
Will we get to see the full presentations of the bids from each party, or will all that be classified past this?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 04:13 pm
Won't see them, unless the contractors release them themselves.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: hyper_snyper on 08/31/2006 04:16 pm
Quote
Jim - 31/8/2006  12:00 PM

Won't see them, unless the contractors release them themselves.

I know satisfying a curious public isn't high on the agenda but is there any reason why they won't release them?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: gladiator1332 on 08/31/2006 04:30 pm
I have my money on NG/Boeing, but hey you never know, there could be an upset and LM walks away with it.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 04:35 pm
Propriety information and cost data  is in the proposals, therefore NASA can't release them.  It is up to the contractors.  We will never see the actual proposals but NASA and the contractor will provide PR documents.  

In programs I have worked, the proposals get destroyed and the relievant data is in the contract, since that is the binding document
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 05:06 pm
Quote
gladiator1332 - 31/8/2006  5:17 PM

I have my money on NG/Boeing, but hey you never know, there could be an upset and LM walks away with it.

I think they'll be some group hugging of LM, maybe with some system technologies (at a guess)...but that won't negate from the fact that everyone seems to think this is going to NG/Boeing.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: space1999 on 08/31/2006 05:13 pm

The contractor teams vying to build the Orion vehicle, which NASA hopes will take astronauts back to the moon, include a who's who of industry titans, and at least two companies will benefit regardless of which team wins the multibillion-dollar contract

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8JRGHI00.htm?sub=apn_tech_up&chan=tc
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 05:28 pm
Quote
space1999 - 31/8/2006  6:00 PM


The contractor teams vying to build the Orion vehicle, which NASA hopes will take astronauts back to the moon, include a who's who of industry titans, and at least two companies will benefit regardless of which team wins the multibillion-dollar contract

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8JRGHI00.htm?sub=apn_tech_up&chan=tc

The stock prices pretty much show it's Boeing/NG too.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 05:55 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 31/8/2006  1:15 PM

Quote
space1999 - 31/8/2006  6:00 PM


The contractor teams vying to build the Orion vehicle, which NASA hopes will take astronauts back to the moon, include a who's who of industry titans, and at least two companies will benefit regardless of which team wins the multibillion-dollar contract

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8JRGHI00.htm?sub=apn_tech_up&chan=tc

The stock prices pretty much show it's Boeing/NG too.

Don't see the change
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 06:09 pm
Quote
Jim - 31/8/2006  6:42 PM

Quote
Chris Bergin - 31/8/2006  1:15 PM

Quote
space1999 - 31/8/2006  6:00 PM


The contractor teams vying to build the Orion vehicle, which NASA hopes will take astronauts back to the moon, include a who's who of industry titans, and at least two companies will benefit regardless of which team wins the multibillion-dollar contract

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8JRGHI00.htm?sub=apn_tech_up&chan=tc

The stock prices pretty much show it's Boeing/NG too.

Don't see the change

Lockheed down, NG up.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 06:51 pm
I made the mistake that I corrected many people on, I looked at Boeing
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Terry Rocket on 08/31/2006 07:16 pm
How much is this deal worth in cold hard cash?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 07:24 pm
Quote
Terry Rocket - 31/8/2006  8:03 PM

How much is this deal worth in cold hard cash?

Around $4,500 million.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: James (Lockheed) on 08/31/2006 07:33 pm
Going with the lifting body in round one didn't help us.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Flightstar on 08/31/2006 07:35 pm
COTS was a shocker with SpaceX getting in. But whoever this goes too will do a good job.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Shuttle Man on 08/31/2006 07:36 pm
I still remember all of this the first time around. NG has the pedigree.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: rfoshaug on 08/31/2006 07:38 pm
Of course for the companies involved, it means a lot in terms of money and jobs, but are there any significant technical differences that we know of? Or major differences in the construction/shape/capabilities etc.?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: joncz on 08/31/2006 07:39 pm
Quote
Flightstar - 31/8/2006  3:22 PM

COTS was a shocker with SpaceX getting in. But whoever this goes too will do a good job.

Funny, but that was exactly my thought about Kistler... at least SpaceX has hardware, not just a wine-bottle shaped powerpoint.

Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 07:40 pm
Pedigee does not count since it has "expired".  Nobody who worked Apollo is still with the companies
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: edkyle99 on 08/31/2006 08:01 pm
Quote
Jim - 31/8/2006  2:27 PM

Pedigee does not count since it has "expired".  Nobody who worked Apollo is still with the companies

And, if I'm remembering correctly, many of the facilities where the vehicles were built are long-gone.  The companies are long-gone, too, for all practical purposes.  North American Aviation and Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation haven't issued paychecks in awhile!

 - Ed Kyle
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 08:08 pm
Press conference in 10 mins. www.nasa.gov/ntv
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Namechange User on 08/31/2006 08:11 pm
Yahoo is running a story that LM has won siting Congressional sources......
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 08:15 pm
Congress is usually called before the contractor
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Felix on 08/31/2006 08:16 pm
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: jacqmans on 08/31/2006 08:19 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 08:21 pm
Quote
OV-106 - 31/8/2006  8:58 PM

Yahoo is running a story that LM has won siting Congressional sources......

That'd be a shocker.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: spacedreams on 08/31/2006 08:27 pm
Lockheed's website says the same
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 08:27 pm
Goodness me, stop babbling and announce it already.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: jacqmans on 08/31/2006 08:31 pm
LM it is...
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jamie Young on 08/31/2006 08:31 pm
Wow. So Boeing will get the upperstage?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: CS24 on 08/31/2006 08:32 pm
It's LM
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: mong' on 08/31/2006 08:32 pm
Congratz LM ! fly us to the moon...
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Heg on 08/31/2006 08:33 pm
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/aug/HQ_06305_Orion_contract.html
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: jacqmans on 08/31/2006 08:35 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MKremer on 08/31/2006 08:35 pm
The US is still to be determined. Just because LM won the CEV doesn't mean Boeing will automatically get the US.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Heg on 08/31/2006 08:37 pm
BTW, these circular solar panels look a bit weird ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Flightstar on 08/31/2006 08:37 pm
Good for this site seen as there's far more folks from LM than Boeing here.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: bad_astra on 08/31/2006 08:40 pm
It wasn't just Boeing.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: zinfab on 08/31/2006 08:40 pm
boy, that just broke the over/under!

congrats to LM! I look forward to lots of cool stuff on this site!
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: gladiator1332 on 08/31/2006 08:41 pm
Well there you go, another dark horse comes from nowhere and takes it home! :)
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 08:46 pm
Noticed that it's got the 4x6 RCS blocks on the SM, as per DAC-2.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: astrobrian on 08/31/2006 08:46 pm
yeah, was sure Boeing had it based on people here. hmph, dark horse indeed.
 I agree with the round slar panels looking strange, but if they are more efficient than I say go for it
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: bobthemonkey on 08/31/2006 08:58 pm
wasn't a smilar design used/proposed for one of the mars landers slar arrays. IIRC they unfold in a similar way to a Japenese fan.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: edkyle99 on 08/31/2006 09:00 pm
Sounds like LM decision to emphasize final build at KSC was key.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: astrobrian on 08/31/2006 09:01 pm
I think that was the sample return mission, but not 100% sure on that one
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Rocket Ronnie on 08/31/2006 09:01 pm
Who's GAO?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Spiff on 08/31/2006 09:02 pm
my first thought on the circular (decagonal? Is that a word?) is 'how are they going to fold those away during launch?

Seems a lot easier with the popular rectangular shape.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MKremer on 08/31/2006 09:04 pm
Quote
Rocket Ronnie - 31/8/2006  3:48 PM

Who's GAO?

Government Accountability Office
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: bobthemonkey on 08/31/2006 09:05 pm
i would have thought flat against the outer bulkhead heading towards the engine bell.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: spacedreams on 08/31/2006 09:08 pm
Question: I know Jeff, Skip, and Doc, but does anybody know anything about Cooke? Just curious what his background is.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 09:09 pm
Quote
Spiff - 31/8/2006  9:49 PM

my first thought on the circular (decagonal? Is that a word?) is 'how are they going to fold those away during launch?

Seems a lot easier with the popular rectangular shape.

Like MXER (search for the video on the video section).

Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MKremer on 08/31/2006 09:11 pm
Quote
Spiff - 31/8/2006  3:49 PM

my first thought on the circular (decagonal? Is that a word?) is 'how are they going to fold those away during launch?

Seems a lot easier with the popular rectangular shape.

They look very similar the the panels being used for the new Mars Phoenix lander. It allows a large deployed surface area stored in a smaller package than plain panels.
You can see a video that shows how they deploy here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/multimedia/videos/video/phoenix_animation.mov

Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: RedSky on 08/31/2006 09:19 pm
A question came up in the press conference asked why the round solar panels.  The answer was that  they provided for less problematic moments than from large wing-like rectangles during major propulsion events, and less stress on hinges &  joints.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Spiff on 08/31/2006 09:26 pm
Cheers guys!
Nice examples. Looks easy if you look at it. :P
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: hyper_snyper on 08/31/2006 09:30 pm
I hope they can push the 2014 date foward, Skip made it clear the date is unfirm for now.  A while back LM said their proposal can beat it.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: mong' on 08/31/2006 09:45 pm
we are at the beginning of something great. history is being written right now.
and I'm glad to be around to see it this time, this is a great day for the space program.
It doesn't matter if NG/Boeing or LM got the contract, what is important is that constellation has become real, there is now a contractor with a clear order and a deadline.
now it is just a matter of time to see it fly
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 08/31/2006 09:58 pm
Quote
mong' - 31/8/2006  5:32 PM

we are at the beginning of something great. history is being written right now.
and I'm glad to be around to see it this time, this is a great day for the space program.
It doesn't matter if NG/Boeing or LM got the contract, what is important is that constellation has become real, there is now a contractor with a clear order and a deadline.
now it is just a matter of time to see it fly

That's what I thought when X-33 was announced!   :(  Maybe they'll have better luck with this!
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: eeergo on 08/31/2006 10:05 pm
Mmmh... they talked about building habitats! At least they talk about it, which is something...
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 10:06 pm
The full press conference on the announcement and videos of the LM Orion...free to people registered on the forum.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4124&start=1&posts=1
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: nacnud on 08/31/2006 10:09 pm
Thanks for that I missed the conferance.

LM is a bit of a shock but I like the choice. Must watch the vid now.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: ApolloLee on 08/31/2006 10:29 pm
LM is a pleasant surprise. LM’s CEV has many advantages over Boeing’s, namely its ability to be extremely upgradeable on the hardware and software side to avoid the shuttle’s problem of relying on 1970s technology into the 20th century.
I also like the fact that appearance wise, it looks like a step up from Apollo, as opposed to Boeing’s design that looked strictly like a rerun. And heck, I love the circular solar panels. With all the criticism of Orion being a step backwards, at least here’s something to grab on to that’s looking forward.
That said, I thought Boeing/Northrop’s political muscle would win out in the end.
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/31/2006 11:34 pm
Lockheed release:


Lockheed Martin Selected by NASA
For ORION crew exploration vehicle
 
Lockheed Martin Team To Design and Build Successor To Space Shuttle as NASA's Primary Vehicle
For Human Space Exploration
 

 

Washington, D.C., August 31, 2006 – The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) announced today that it has selected the Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] team to design and build the agency’s next-generation human space flight crew transportation system known as Orion, with an initial contract value of approximately $4 billion.  

 

Orion, an advanced crew capsule design utilizing state-of-the-art technology, is a key element of NASA’s Vision for Space Exploration, and will succeed the Space Shuttle in transporting a new generation of human explorers to and from the International Space Station, the Moon, and eventually to Mars and beyond.

 

In partnership with NASA, Lockheed Martin will serve as prime contractor and will lead a world-class industry team that includes Honeywell, Orbital Sciences Corporation, United Space Alliance and Hamilton Sundstrand, supporting NASA in the design, test, build, integration and operational capability of Orion.

 

"We are honored by the trust that NASA has placed in the Lockheed Martin team for this historic and vital step forward in human space exploration," said Bob Stevens, chairman of the board, president and chief executive officer of Lockheed Martin Corporation.  "Our entire team is fully committed to supporting NASA as we join together to help make the vision for space exploration a reality."

 

Orion will transport up to six crew members to and from the International Space Station, and up to four crew members for lunar missions.  The new crew vehicle is designed to be an order of magnitude safer, more reliable, more affordable and more operationally efficient than previous human space flight systems.

 

“We are humbled and excited as we continue our legacy of five decades of partnership with NASA in every aspect of human and robotic space exploration,” said Joanne Maguire, executive vice president of Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company.  “Work already is underway and we are fully focused on the vital tasks that lie ahead to meet NASA’s requirements for the program. We have a world-class team of highly dedicated, highly experienced women and men who are passionate about the success of NASA’s missions.”

 

- more -

 

The Lockheed Martin Orion program office is located in Houston, TX, co-located with NASA’s Johnson Space Center, providing support in the areas of program management, requirements development, software development, avionics, human factors, and system qualification testing.  Large structures and composites will be built at NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans, LA.  Final assembly, checkout and acceptance testing of Orion for both the Crew Module and Service Module will be performed in the Operations and Checkout (O&C) facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center.  

 

Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company is one of the major operating units of Lockheed Martin Corporation. Space Systems designs, develops, tests, manufactures and operates a variety of advanced technology systems for military, civil and commercial customers. Chief products include a full range of space launch systems, including heavy-lift capability, ground systems, remote sensing and communications satellites for commercial and government customers, advanced space observatories and interplanetary spacecraft, fleet ballistic missiles and missile defense systems.

 

Headquartered in Bethesda, Md., Lockheed Martin employs about 135,000 people worldwide and is principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems, products and services. The corporation reported 2005 sales of $37.2 billion.

 

Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 11:45 pm
I said don't read into anything before they announced it
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 08/31/2006 11:51 pm
Quote
Jamie Young - 31/8/2006  4:18 PM

Wow. So Boeing will get the upperstage?

No guarantee
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: CEV Now on 09/01/2006 12:24 am
Wow, Lockheed Martin. All the media were placing NG as favorite. Hope Lockheed Martin have learned from X-33.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/01/2006 01:29 am
A couple of weeks ago, this group voted its prediction.  Northrop/Boeing won the vote 37 to 13!

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3863&posts=25&mid=57758&highlight=&highlightmode=1&action=search#M57758

I'm pleased to see that I was one of the 13, but I can't brag since I see that I misspelled "Northrop" at the time.  ;)

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: astrobrian on 09/01/2006 01:33 am

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Jim - 31/8/2006  6:38 PM  
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Jamie Young - 31/8/2006  4:18 PM  Wow. So Boeing will get the upperstage?
 No guarantee

They would give both to one company? I find that hard to believe 

Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/01/2006 01:37 am
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astrobrian - 31/8/2006  8:20 PM

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Jim - 31/8/2006  6:38 PM  
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Jamie Young - 31/8/2006  4:18 PM  Wow. So Boeing will get the upperstage?
 No guarantee

They would give both to one company? I find that hard to believe



North American Aviation won both the Apollo CSM contract *and* the Saturn V S-II stage contract.  People were surprised when NAA won the CSM contract, since McDonnell had more manned spacecraft experience and Martin had the highest proposal rating.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: astrobrian on 09/01/2006 01:42 am
Just wouldn't think these days with the politics of it all that it would still be like that though. I wouldn't mind it really, just wouldn't expect it to happen
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: edkyle99 on 09/01/2006 03:14 am
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astrobrian - 31/8/2006  8:29 PM

Just wouldn't think these days with the politics of it all that it would still be like that though. I wouldn't mind it really, just wouldn't expect it to happen

I just remembered that at least *two* major production contracts remain to be let for the Ares I launch vehicle.  One is for the upper stage itself.  Another will be for the Instrument Unit that will sit atop the upper stage, containing avionics that will control the entire launch vehicle.  The Instrument Unit contract could be a nice plum - worth far more in dollars than its relative size suggests.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Avron on 09/01/2006 03:52 am
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MKremer - 31/8/2006  4:22 PM

The US is still to be determined. Just because LM won the CEV doesn't mean Boeing will automatically get the US.


Boeing is going to get Zero work directly... LMT has done one fantastic job in covering all the bases, and I mean all the bases..(how many presentations have you seen from LM and how many from BA on this site as an example)  now there may be some action behind the work effort to keep a few boeing people happy..  If you see much in the way of issues from congress I will be amazed, in fact I dont see Delta getting much work from NASA going forward.. it will be LM and Atlas (what ever way that plays out) for NASA.. LM has the relationship with NASA and has it covered, has tested the waters many times over at least the last four years (at least) and has picked up the Big one...

LMT had the plan, and worked the plan, now they own the work, the Money and control the relationship. and played the focus game very well...

A great job, very well executed.. and much deserved...

The better team won out, if you look back its a clear win (Boeing was out  a long time ago). What you see today, was not won on just one proposal, and never is with that many Billions up for grabs

Congratulations LMT...
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jonesy STS on 09/01/2006 08:32 am
UK news playing on the "NASA goes back to the 60s" angle.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Captain Scarlet on 09/01/2006 09:21 am
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Jonesy STS - 1/9/2006  3:19 AM

UK news playing on the "NASA goes back to the 60s" angle.

BBC had a big feature too, saying "But we've seen this before. 10 years ago Al Gore revealed the X-33, but a billion dollars later it was dead."

And then did the "that was also Lockheed Martin" and made a big thing out of them being a company that is making money out of the war and they are getting repaid for that.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 09/01/2006 11:21 am
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Avron - 31/8/2006  11:39 PM

 LM has the relationship with NASA


So does Boeing: USA,  ISS, Shuttle and Delta
Title: RE: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/01/2006 01:04 pm
The BBC seem to have changed their feature. Doesn't mention the X-33 angle now.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: zinfab on 09/01/2006 02:15 pm
This seems so different than the X-33 program. This time around, it's clear that the space shuttle will be retired, which puts additional pressure and need into "the next spaceship." That will make the difference.

In addition, this is clearly part of an entire exploration architecture (VSE), instead of a single new craft.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: hyper_snyper on 09/01/2006 02:34 pm
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Captain Scarlet - 1/9/2006  5:08 AM

Quote
Jonesy STS - 1/9/2006  3:19 AM

UK news playing on the "NASA goes back to the 60s" angle.

BBC had a big feature too, saying "But we've seen this before. 10 years ago Al Gore revealed the X-33, but a billion dollars later it was dead."

And then did the "that was also Lockheed Martin" and made a big thing out of them being a company that is making money out of the war and they are getting repaid for that.

Most of the news articles I've read about this contain some sort of negative angle.  Which is dissapointing to say the least.

Also, of all the previous attempts to get a new vehicle built this one has gone the farthest along and I'm confident it will continue to gain mometum.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/01/2006 04:07 pm
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hyper_snyper - 1/9/2006  10:21 AM

Also, of all the previous attempts to get a new vehicle built this one has gone the farthest along and I'm confident it will continue to gain mometum.


In the words of Lockheed Martin Vice President John Karas, "we're not shooting as far... I'd say it (Orion) is within reach."

I think because they're aiming low and not taking on any tough technical challenges, there is a higher probability of success.  Of course, we're re-defining what success is.  Compare the goals of a decade ago, when people had dreams of routine access to space, to the scaled back goals of today.  

It seems that NASA has really backed itself into a corner, as the space shuttle surely is due for retirement, and NASA needs something affordable in the near term that it knows will work.  So, given that reality, updated Apollo-era designs might be the logical choice.  But I fear that it will hold back true progress over the long term.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: CEV Now on 09/02/2006 02:23 am
Have Lockheed Martin released any detailed presentations past the videos we saw yesterday?
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MKremer on 09/02/2006 03:15 am
To me it's rather interesting that most people focus on the shape much more than the purpose. Also, I think many people (even in the media) don't realize the amount of up-to-date and new technologies this thing is going to have - materials and construction, power, computing and communications, life support, thermal regulation, and even on down to things like the controls, displays, and crew seats.
Apollo capsules are going to look like Model-T's in comparison.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: SpaceCat on 09/02/2006 04:21 am
A little historical perspective.... Without going into the books for absolute time hacks- from the time the first major Apollo contracts were awarded until the '11' landing roughly 8 years passed.  Granted, there was alot more money to play with then; but at that point we had essentially no infrasturcture for construction or launch, and little more than 15 minutes worth of spaceflight experience.  We now have the industrial capabilities in place, we have a launch complex which will need modifictions- but it's not like we have to build a VAB and LC39 from scratch- and we have an incredible number of hours logged in space.    Yet- the best guess for a moon landing is THIRTEEN  years away!  This tells me a number of things, including:
1) We are not as smart as we used to be.
2) We can anticipate a good dose of 'milking.'
3) I find myself idolizing people like Rocco Petrone even more.  

But.... I hope it works even if I probably won't be alive to see it! :)
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/02/2006 04:40 am
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MKremer - 1/9/2006  11:02 PM

To me it's rather interesting that most people focus on the shape much more than the purpose.

So far, I haven't seen a good explanation of the purpose, beyond sending 4 people to the moon for a weeklong stay two times per year starting 13 years from now.  With this expensive hardware, that's all NASA can afford to do.  That, to me, is hardly a compelling reason to gut other worthwhile programs in order to fund VSE.  Sure, there has been vague talk of lunar bases and an eventual attempt at sending humans to Mars, but realistically, NASA will be lucky to afford those two Apollo style flights per year.  What's the point?  (And I ask that in all seriousness.)
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: rdale on 09/02/2006 04:48 am
Have you read over any of the VSE material? http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/main/index.html

The goal is to get us to Mars. The "training ground" is the moon.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/02/2006 04:54 am
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rdale - 2/9/2006  12:35 AM

Have you read over any of the VSE material? http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/main/index.html

I have, but I will review it again.  


Quote
The goal is to get us to Mars. The "training ground" is the moon.

It just seems that with this vintage technology, we'll be doing too little at too much cost to really establish a meaningful presence on the moon or beyond.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MKremer on 09/02/2006 07:15 am
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vt_hokie - 1/9/2006  11:27 PM

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MKremer - 1/9/2006  11:02 PM

To me it's rather interesting that most people focus on the shape much more than the purpose.

So far, I haven't seen a good explanation of the purpose, beyond sending 4 people to the moon for a weeklong stay two times per year starting 13 years from now.

Eh.  To me, the purpose is to get 4-6 people into LEO, building on the parts of the Shuttle system already developed and proven safe (from past hard-earned experience), and do it safely (ie- abort options).

The purpose isn't the destination!
The purpose is to have a basic vehicle (CM/SM (CEV)) that can do a ground-to-orbit-and-reentry as efficiently as possible while still retaining the as much of the existing workforce/experience left over from the Shuttle program as they can (meaning involving and upgrading Shuttle legacy hardware). It's as much political as it is trying to be practical.

If NASA can get a reliable, safe means of getting a crew of 4-6 people from the ground to LEO (and back again), then their final destination, using additional safe space hardware, shouldn't matter, IMO.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MKremer on 09/02/2006 07:18 am
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vt_hokie - 1/9/2006  11:41 PM

It just seems that with this vintage technology, we'll be doing too little at too much cost to really establish a meaningful presence on the moon or beyond.

Please define "vintage technology" as it applies to anything other than the outer shape of the CEV.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/02/2006 08:23 am
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MKremer - 2/9/2006  3:05 AM

Please define "vintage technology" as it applies to anything other than the outer shape of the CEV.

SRB's and other expendable launch vehicle hardware, primarily.  And it sounds like the "Orion" capsule might not even be reusable.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: MATTBLAK on 09/02/2006 10:41 am
(Adopts Irish accent) "'Twill be a fine ship, this O'Ryan. 'Tis a fine name for a ship of the heavens, to be sure, to be sure!!" ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 09/02/2006 02:18 pm
Quote
SpaceCat - 2/9/2006  12:08 AM

A little historical perspective.... Without going into the books for absolute time hacks- from the time the first major Apollo contracts were awarded until the '11' landing roughly 8 years passed.  Granted, there was alot more money to play with then; but at that point we had essentially no infrasturcture for construction or launch, and little more than 15 minutes worth of spaceflight experience.  We now have the industrial capabilities in place, we have a launch complex which will need modifictions- but it's not like we have to build a VAB and LC39 from scratch- and we have an incredible number of hours logged in space.    Yet- the best guess for a moon landing is THIRTEEN  years away!  This tells me a number of things, including:
1) We are not as smart as we used to be.
2) We can anticipate a good dose of 'milking.'
3) I find myself idolizing people like Rocco Petrone even more.  

But.... I hope it works even if I probably won't be alive to see it! :)

It is the stretchout of the $
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: PlanetStorm on 09/02/2006 02:59 pm
Quote
Jim - 2/9/2006  3:05 PM

Quote
SpaceCat - 2/9/2006  12:08 AM

A little historical perspective.... Without going into the books for absolute time hacks- from the time the first major Apollo contracts were awarded until the '11' landing roughly 8 years passed.  Granted, there was alot more money to play with then; but at that point we had essentially no infrasturcture for construction or launch, and little more than 15 minutes worth of spaceflight experience.  We now have the industrial capabilities in place, we have a launch complex which will need modifictions- but it's not like we have to build a VAB and LC39 from scratch- and we have an incredible number of hours logged in space.    Yet- the best guess for a moon landing is THIRTEEN  years away!  This tells me a number of things, including:
1) We are not as smart as we used to be.
2) We can anticipate a good dose of 'milking.'
3) I find myself idolizing people like Rocco Petrone even more.  

But.... I hope it works even if I probably won't be alive to see it! :)

It is the stretchout of the $

I think it has more to do with having to complete the ISS and retire the SST in the same time frame as developing some elements of Constellation.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: vt_hokie on 09/02/2006 03:05 pm
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PlanetStorm - 2/9/2006  10:46 AM


I think it has more to do with having to complete the ISS and retire the SST in the same time frame as developing some elements of Constellation.

The SST is already retired!  Sadly, STS isn't far behind.   ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: rdale on 09/02/2006 03:38 pm
"I think it has more to do with having to complete the ISS and retire the SST in the same time frame as developing some elements of Constellation."

No - it was made quite clear at the last two Constellation press conferences that if there was unlimited funds, we could do this notably faster.
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Avron on 09/02/2006 08:21 pm
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Jim - 1/9/2006  7:08 AM

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Avron - 31/8/2006  11:39 PM

 LM has the relationship with NASA


So does Boeing: USA,  ISS, Shuttle and Delta

No Jim... sorry but I am not talking about "had" the relationship.. I am talking "Has" "The" relationship... Boeing clearly will still have "A' relationship with NASA, until Boeing makes the move to either take it back  they will have "A" relationship or choose not to have one at all...

Now for the US.. based on what we have seen in the last four years when the pressure was on, it seems like MSFC/MAF have a great relaitionship with LM.. I see no change .. its all about sales and corperate relationships.

None of this should be taken as negitive in terms of the workforce.. but it will impact the workforce.. and to some degree that is the Sad part..
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Jim on 09/02/2006 08:51 pm
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Avron - 2/9/2006  4:08 PM

1.  No Jim... sorry but I am not talking about "had" the relationship.. I am talking "Has" "The" relationship... Boeing clearly will still have "A' relationship with NASA, until Boeing makes the move to either take it back  they will have "A" relationship or choose not to have one at all...

2.  Now for the US.. based on what we have seen in the last four years when the pressure was on, it seems like MSFC/MAF have a great relaitionship with LM.. I see no change .. its all about sales and corperate relationships.

1. You are trying to see something that isn't there.   LM isn't the "in" and Boeing is on the "outs"  LM just won the next contract.  That is all.  LM has losts other, but that didn't mean they were on the "out"  

2.  You are trying to see something that isn't there.  LM is just a resident contractor.  Others can work in the same facility.  MAF doesn't equate to LM.  It is just like Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale.  NG made the B-2, Boeing the B-1 and shuttle, and LM the X-33 all in the same facility.  MAF is a place for contractors to build items for NASA
Title: Re: LIVE: NASA Announces Contractor for Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle
Post by: Avron on 09/02/2006 11:13 pm
Time will tell..