NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles => ULA - Delta, Atlas, Vulcan => Topic started by: CNYMike on 02/01/2015 12:15 am
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Could someone clear up my confusion? I thought Boeing was going to retire the Delta 2, yet one just launched this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KusL0aGxmKA Did they change their minds? Or are a few more due to launch just from Vandenberg? Or what? Would appreciate it.
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Flying the last few out of Vandenberg over the next couple of years:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/01/ula-delta-ii-smap-mission/ (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/01/ula-delta-ii-smap-mission/)
The mission was the only one scheduled for the Delta II this year, as the rocket’s operations are wound down. After the SMAP launch two more missions remain on the Delta II’s manifest, with the March 2017 deployment of the first Joint Polar Satellite System (JPSS) vehicle its next scheduled flight.
The other scheduled Delta II launch will occur later in 2017 with NASA’s ICESat-II spacecraft. Parts exist to construct one further rocket should it be required, although it remains unclear whether this will be used.
:)
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Production is over and the east coast pads are gone.
There are two more missions scheduled next year soon, and one booster still unspoken for, but the end is near.
Probably the greatest American launch vehicle. It will be sad to see it go.
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Could someone clear up my confusion? I thought Boeing was going to retire the Delta 2, yet one just launched this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KusL0aGxmKA Did they change their minds? Or are a few more due to launch just from Vandenberg? Or what? Would appreciate it.
Not sure if I can clear any confusion, but are they strill flying or still frying? ;)
They are certainly still frying the launch pad!
P.S. Please fix the typo in the thread title.
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Could someone clear up my confusion? I thought Boeing was going to retire the Delta 2, yet one just launched this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KusL0aGxmKA Did they change their minds? Or are a few more due to launch just from Vandenberg? Or what? Would appreciate it.
Not sure if I can clear any confusion, but are they strill flying or still frying? ;)
They are certainly still frying the launch pad!
P.S. Please fix the typo in the thread title.
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P.S. Please fix the typo in the thread title.
Fixed what I could.
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And yes, thanks for clearing things up.
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Yes, still flying! Although an old horse, anything with orbital capability is "nothing short of magic" in the words of Arthur C. Clarke.
Back in 2010 when the Falcon 9 flew for the very first time. Jim posted on the Live Launch thread "Delta II finally got a replacement.". For some reason he deleted that post.
If you are reading this Jim, do you care to give of any insight to that comment?
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Back in 2010 when the Falcon 9 flew for the very first time. Jim posted on the Live Launch thread "Delta II finally got a replacement.". For some reason he deleted that post.
If you are reading this Jim, do you care to give of any insight to that comment?
Don't recall the exact dates, but for a short while Delta II was gone, then the remaining rockets were made available via NLS II.
There was a lot of talk about "Delta II replacement" going on for awhile. What people usually meant by this was not exactly 1:1 replacement (Delta II got retired for a reason), but rather how NASA would get certain science payloads to space that were too big for converted missiles but didn't need an Atlas V's intermediate class performance.
So far most of those missions have ended up assigned to the last Deltas or Atlas V, but Spacex is finally making inroads and looks to be the logical choice for many of those types of missions going forward, see for example Jason 3, DSCOVR, TESS, etc. It's taken Spacex longer than expected though (remember CASSIOPE?). Ironically, I think ULA selling the last Delta IIs was a gift to Spacex as it gave NASA options and kept VAFB real estate tied up, thus discouraging OSC and LockMart from getting in on the SSO market.
My dreams of a west coast Antares or the return of Athena (Athena III anyone?) are fading away. Maybe Minotaur VI will happen?
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Every time a Delta II goes up, I can't help but think a part of Vanguard, Apollo, and Shuttle for now still lives...
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Falcon crushes all of the vehicles mentioned here in $/lb. Now that its getting into statistically relevant numbers of launches, there's no need to go elsewhere unless there's a throughput problem or someone else can develop something near the cost.
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Every time a Delta II goes up, I can't help but think a part of Vanguard, Apollo, and Shuttle for now still lives...
And Navaho. RS-27A is the last in a long line of "150K" Rocketdyne RP/LOX based engines that originated with Navaho G38 and that were used by Atlas, Jupiter, Saturn, and Thor (and also found licensed adaptation by Blue Streak/Europa, by Japan's N and H-1 rockets, and maybe even partly by Aerojet for the Titan 1 engines). They account for the majority of all U.S. orbital launches and for a sizable percentage of worldwide launches. And only two more are expected to fly.
- Ed Kyle
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What is Delta 2's Shuttle connection?
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What is Delta 2's Shuttle connection?
Second stage engine is a sibling of the shuttle OMS thrusters
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What is Delta 2's Shuttle connection?
Second stage engine is a sibling of the shuttle OMS thrusters
Then it is also directly connected to Orion!
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What is Delta 2's Shuttle connection?
Second stage engine is a sibling of the shuttle OMS thrusters
Then it is also directly connected to Orion!
And the Apollo SPS!
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What is Delta 2's Shuttle connection?
Second stage engine is a sibling of the shuttle OMS thrusters
Then it is also directly connected to Orion!
And the Apollo SPS!
Yeah, all variants of the AJ-10. But be carefull calling them relatives. I did exactly that a few years ago and got pasted by a very prominent member here about the (apparent) fact that those variants of AJ-10 are related (mostly) in name only.
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Every time a Delta II goes up, I can't help but think a part of Vanguard, Apollo, and Shuttle for now still lives...
And Navaho. RS-27A is the last in a long line of "150K" Rocketdyne RP/LOX based engines that originated with Navaho G38 and that were used by Atlas, Jupiter, Saturn, and Thor (and also found licensed adaptation by Blue Streak/Europa, by Japan's N and H-1 rockets, and maybe even partly by Aerojet for the Titan 1 engines). They account for the majority of all U.S. orbital launches and for a sizable percentage of worldwide launches. And only two more are expected to fly.
- Ed Kyle
Ed I know there were some changes with the RS-27A; but I feel a a lot closer to the Von Braun team and H1 with the Delta II.
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Ed I know there were some changes with the RS-27A; but I feel a a lot closer to the Von Braun team and H1 with the Delta II.
It actually has more in common with the USAF teams vs Huntsville.
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Ed I know there were some changes with the RS-27A; but I feel a a lot closer to the Von Braun team and H1 with the Delta II.
It actually has more in common with the USAF teams vs Huntsville.
Jim was that pre-nasa or in the middle of the formation?
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pre NASA
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Every time a Delta II goes up, I can't help but think a part of Vanguard, Apollo, and Shuttle for now still lives...
And Navaho. RS-27A is the last in a long line of "150K" Rocketdyne RP/LOX based engines that originated with Navaho G38 and that were used by Atlas, Jupiter, Saturn, and Thor (and also found licensed adaptation by Blue Streak/Europa, by Japan's N and H-1 rockets, and maybe even partly by Aerojet for the Titan 1 engines). They account for the majority of all U.S. orbital launches and for a sizable percentage of worldwide launches. And only two more are expected to fly.
- Ed Kyle
Absolutely true.
Though, while it is not directly related (I think? How much RS-27 was in FASTRAC?) and is a bit smaller, Merlin 1 is very much a spiritual successor to H-1/RS-27. It's a pity that Taurus II/Antares hasn't lived up to being a true Delta II successor...
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Every time a Delta II goes up, I can't help but think a part of Vanguard, Apollo, and Shuttle for now still lives...
And Navaho. RS-27A is the last in a long line of "150K" Rocketdyne RP/LOX based engines that originated with Navaho G38 and that were used by Atlas, Jupiter, Saturn, and Thor (and also found licensed adaptation by Blue Streak/Europa, by Japan's N and H-1 rockets, and maybe even partly by Aerojet for the Titan 1 engines). They account for the majority of all U.S. orbital launches and for a sizable percentage of worldwide launches. And only two more are expected to fly.
- Ed Kyle
Absolutely true.
Though, while it is not directly related (I think? How much RS-27 was in FASTRAC?) and is a bit smaller, Merlin 1 is very much a spiritual successor to H-1/RS-27. It's a pity that Taurus II/Antares hasn't lived up to being a true Delta II successor...
are you saying that if you were to re-engine the Delta II today you would use several Fastrac engines?
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Ed I know there were some changes with the RS-27A; but I feel a a lot closer to the Von Braun team and H1 with the Delta II.
It actually has more in common with the USAF teams vs Huntsville.
Delta was derived from the USAF IRBM Thor, who's story is told in this fascinating video (which includes lots of blockhouse equipment and people views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUIqIJXhz68
A "Thor-Vanguard" variant (named Thor Able) was created for the Air Force to test reentry materials. That rocket was later adapted by NASA, with avionics improvements, to create "Thor-Delta". Goddard center ran the resulting Delta program, which made sense because Goddard was built around the former NRL team that created Vanguard. Goddard ran the Delta program until the end of the 1980s, when the Air Force "took Delta back", creating Delta 2 to launch the GPS constellation. But, of course, Delta 2 was able to do other things, so it also kept working for NASA and for commercial satellite operators, and others.
Von Braun's team built the IRBM Jupiter (originally for the U.S. Army, but ultimately, and reluctantly, deployed by the Air Force), which was powered by an engine very similar to the Thor engine, but which used turbopump exhaust for roll control rather than the roll verniers used by Thor, among other differences. My understanding is that the Saturn H-1 engine was derived from the Jupiter engine, although as mentioned both shared similarities with the Thor and Atlas engines.
- Ed Kyle
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Ed I know there were some changes with the RS-27A; but I feel a a lot closer to the Von Braun team and H1 with the Delta II.
It actually has more in common with the USAF teams vs Huntsville.
Delta was derived from the USAF IRBM Thor, who's story is told in this fascinating video (which includes lots of blockhouse equipment and people views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUIqIJXhz68
A "Thor-Vanguard" variant (named Thor Able) was created for the Air Force to test reentry materials. That rocket was later adapted by NASA, with avionics improvements, to create "Thor-Delta". Goddard center ran the resulting Delta program, which made sense because Goddard was built around the former NRL team that created Vanguard. Goddard ran the Delta program until the end of the 1980s, when the Air Force "took Delta back", creating Delta 2 to launch the GPS constellation. But, of course, Delta 2 was able to do other things, so it also kept working for NASA and for commercial satellite operators, and others.
Von Braun's team built the IRBM Jupiter (originally for the U.S. Army, but ultimately, and reluctantly, deployed by the Air Force), which was powered by an engine very similar to the Thor engine, but which used turbopump exhaust for roll control rather than the roll verniers used by Thor, among other differences. My understanding is that the Saturn H-1 engine was derived from the Jupiter engine, although as mentioned both shared similarities with the Thor and Atlas engines.
- Ed Kyle
Excellent Video and information Ed...amazing what they did so long ago.
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What is Delta 2's Shuttle connection?
Second stage engine is a sibling of the shuttle OMS thrusters
Then it is also directly connected to Orion!
I believe that Orion is not longer using the AJ-10 class engine, replacing it with Euro built engines.
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NASA is still supplying the engines
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NASA is still supplying the engines
The ATV based service module is going to use an AJ-10 class engine?
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NASA is still supplying the engines
The ATV based service module is going to use an AJ-10 class engine?
Yes. Hardware pulled from Shuttle orbiters may be involved.
- Ed Kyle
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Ed I know there were some changes with the RS-27A; but I feel a a lot closer to the Von Braun team and H1 with the Delta II.
It actually has more in common with the USAF teams vs Huntsville.
Delta was derived from the USAF IRBM Thor, who's story is told in this fascinating video (which includes lots of blockhouse equipment and people views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUIqIJXhz68
A "Thor-Vanguard" variant (named Thor Able) was created for the Air Force to test reentry materials. That rocket was later adapted by NASA, with avionics improvements, to create "Thor-Delta". Goddard center ran the resulting Delta program, which made sense because Goddard was built around the former NRL team that created Vanguard. Goddard ran the Delta program until the end of the 1980s, when the Air Force "took Delta back", creating Delta 2 to launch the GPS constellation. But, of course, Delta 2 was able to do other things, so it also kept working for NASA and for commercial satellite operators, and others.
Von Braun's team built the IRBM Jupiter (originally for the U.S. Army, but ultimately, and reluctantly, deployed by the Air Force), which was powered by an engine very similar to the Thor engine, but which used turbopump exhaust for roll control rather than the roll verniers used by Thor, among other differences. My understanding is that the Saturn H-1 engine was derived from the Jupiter engine, although as mentioned both shared similarities with the Thor and Atlas engines.
- Ed Kyle
Interesting info. Thanks for the link Ed.
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Excellent Video and information Ed...amazing what they did so long ago.
Amazing indeed - but only amazing because they (or we in general) have been sitting on our laurels far too long, instead of pushing the state of the art. The original designers of the RS-27 would not have anticipated that their engine would still be in active use for this long.
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Just out of curiosity how much does the last three Delta 2 flight cost each?
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NASA is still supplying the engines
The ATV based service module is going to use an AJ-10 class engine?
Yes. Hardware pulled from Shuttle orbiters may be involved.
- Ed Kyle
Not may, but will.
Orion 606/607 service module was to use the Orion Main Engine (OME), an improved version of the STS OMS-E (and thus yet another variant of AJ-10).
With the switch to an ESA supplied serive module (ESM) it was decided to equip the ESM with surplus STS OMS-E engines (AJ-10-190).
Regardless, the SM would, and still will be equipped with an AJ-10 variant.
The four (4) secondary engines on ESM will also be of US supply: Aerojet RD-4D-11. That's exactly the same model that is in use on the current ATV.
The only thrusters on ESM of european origin are the RCS thrusters.
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Just out of curiosity how much does the last three Delta 2 flight cost each?
OCO-2, SMAP, and JPSS-1, about $412M total
ICESat-2 about $97M
These numbers include some stuff that isn't just the price of the rocket.
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Just out of curiosity how much does the last three Delta 2 flight cost each?
OCO-2, SMAP, and JPSS-1, about $412M total
ICESat-2 about $97M
These numbers include some stuff that isn't just the price of the rocket.
Just to be clear. Those numbers are for launch services?
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Just out of curiosity how much does the last three Delta 2 flight cost each?
OCO-2, SMAP, and JPSS-1, about $412M total
ICESat-2 about $97M
These numbers include some stuff that isn't just the price of the rocket.
Just to be clear. Those numbers are for launch services?
These are the launch services contract numbers released by NASA, for example:
CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA's Launch Services Program at the agency's Kennedy Space Center in Florida has selected United Launch Services, LLC of Englewood, Colo., to provide Delta II launch services for the Ice, Cloud and Land Elevation Satellite (ICESat)-2 mission, currently scheduled for July 2016.
A firm fixed-price launch service task order has been awarded under the indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity NASA Launch Services (NLS) II contract. NASA's total cost to launch ICESat-2 is $96.6 million, including payload processing, integrated services, telemetry, reimbursables and other launch support requirements.