I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...
I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...
Why not? That's six years away, by that time all being well we will have seen the second lunar sample return mission as well as another lunar rover, and the LM-5 in service.
I don't think that will be likely, to be honest...
Why not? That's six years away, by that time all being well we will have seen the second lunar sample return mission as well as another lunar rover, and the LM-5 in service.
How much of the Lunar hardware being used/developed also be used for this?
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1539568/next-stop-mars-china-aims-send-rover-red-planet-within-six-yearsWhat "top aerospace scientists" want to do, and what the government wants to pay for are quite different, but frequently conflated in press reports.
"China has ambitious plans to touch down on Mars by 2020, likely with a rover, and to collect its own samples from the red planet 10 years after that, a top aerospace scientist has revealed."
In 2000, Ouyang said "in 2020 they will establish a moon village or even a town." How's that coming along? http://bit.ly/1mvUhhA
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1539568/next-stop-mars-china-aims-send-rover-red-planet-within-six-yearsWhat "top aerospace scientists" want to do, and what the government wants to pay for are quite different, but frequently conflated in press reports.
"China has ambitious plans to touch down on Mars by 2020, likely with a rover, and to collect its own samples from the red planet 10 years after that, a top aerospace scientist has revealed."
2020 for a modest lander or rover doesn't seem out of the question, but like you I'd expect them to at least fly an orbiter and perhaps an EDL demonstrator first. Sample return would be a much bigger investment than China has put into planetary science so far.
I don't know how many of you were following the Chinese space program in the early 2000s, but when they approved the Chang'e program, they publicly announced that they did.
only when I will see such an announcement (from official sources, not from one or two scientists) I will believe that they are going to Mars.
found on a French forum, a reportage on the Mars lander + rover on show at the Zhuhai airshow
note the CG rendering starting at 1:47. I wonder why would the Chinese go for such a complex lander to land a MER-sized rover, while they could use airbags. Is the lander itself instrumented somehow? would they use it as a EDL demonstrator for a bigger lander?
Looking at the video it would appear that the lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars like the Soviet-era Mars 2/3/6/7, while the Viking landers did their descents from Mars orbit. Of course, the US rovers also completed direct descents to Mars. This could cause problems if there is only a limited ability to change the landing site in the case of a dust storm being in progress.Lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars...
found on a French forum, a reportage on the Mars lander + rover on show at the Zhuhai airshow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwq3p-UKLEQ
note the CG rendering starting at 1:47. I wonder why would the Chinese go for such a complex lander to land a MER-sized rover, while they could use airbags. Is the lander itself instrumented somehow? would they use it as a EDL demonstrator for a bigger lander?
I mean, why use a Viking to lend a MER-sized rover?
Looking at the video it would appear that the lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars like the Soviet-era Mars 2/3/6/7, while the Viking landers did their descents from Mars orbit. Of course, the US rovers also completed direct descents to Mars. This could cause problems if there is only a limited ability to change the landing site in the case of a dust storm being in progress.Lander separates from the orbiter/fly-by probe during the approach to Mars...
It's only a mistake, while the rover using wheels like the luna rover Yutu, it's also a mistake
according to some news about the mission, lander descents from Mars orbit
Do you have a source for the descent from Mars orbit?
Elektra is just a UHF radio. If the Chinese wanted to listen in on Elektra communications they would be doing so.Technically, CCSDS Proximity-1 description should be available to them, they can build their own. Testing is where it gets a tad tricky, but can be worked out through ESA i believe.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-01/29/c_136019570.htm
China unveils top names for Mars spacecraft
Source: Xinhua 2017-01-29 17:26:03
BEIJING, Jan. 29 (Xinhua) -- China has released a short list of eight names for the country's first Mars spacecraft, which is scheduled to launch by 2020.
The eight names-- "Fenghuang" (phoenix), "Tianwen" (questions for heaven), "Huoxing" (Mars), "Tenglong" (soaring dragon), "Qilin" (Kylin), "Zhuque" (rose finch), "Zhuimeng" (chasing dreams) and "Fengxiang" (flying phoenix), were the top names chosen from over 14,500 choices submitted through more than 35,900 proposals entered by people worldwide.
If I had to choose one of the top eight, I would go with "Huoxing" because since it's China's first Mars mission
The first Chinese Mars exploration will fulfill the goals of “orbiting, landing and roving” in one mission. This paper briefly describes the process of international Mars exploration and analyzes the development of Chinese Mars exploration. It focuses on introducing the scientific significance and engineering difficulties of Mars exploration, and provides an overview of the system design of the probe, including the flight profile, the preliminary selection of the landing site, the entry, descent and landing (also known as EDL) process. Four types of key technologies, including telecommunications, autonomous control, the EDL process, and its structure and mechanism, are detailed in this paper. Finally, the paper highlights the expected scientific and engineering results of the mission.
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.
Orbiter
--------
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)
APXS detects elements, but not how they are assembled in minerals. So if the translation is correct the instrument is probably an infrared spectrometer like the one used on Yutu.
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go?..
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the pastI think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.
Preliminary payloads being carried. Rover life is planned for 90 days.
Orbiter
--------
High-Resolution Camera (0.1 m)
That would give us higher-resolution picture than HIRISE.
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the pastI think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.
Perhaps what they meant by "local" are images taken by the Lander as is it descending to the surface.
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the pastI think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.
There is a simpler explanation. They are losing face to the Indians. Who does have a functional Mars orbiter right now. If ISRO manage to deployed another Mars orbiter before the Chinese have their initial orbiter than the Chinese national prestige suffers.
Think of the Indians & the Chinese as analogs of Bezes & Musk in an International one-upsmanship contest.
Why is china is such a hurry to launch a orbiter/lander/rover all in one go? With their lunar program they went step by step. With mars they seem to be rushing for some reason....not a good idea given how many missions to mars have failed in the pastI think their goals are not scientific research, but engineering demonstration. The design of this Mars mission is somewhat similar to the previous lunar missions. It is clear that their ultimate goal is human exploration of Mars. They don't want to dedicate too much in "Spirit" or "Curiosity" like science-oriented missions. If the first mission succeed, the second missions to Mars is sample return.
BEIJING, Sept. 20 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe will carry 13 types of payload, including six rovers, in its first mission to the planet, scheduled for 2020.
"The Mars exploration program is well underway," said Zhang Rongqiao, chief architect of the Mars mission, at the Beijing International Forum on Lunar and Deep-space Exploration, which opened Wednesday. "The payloads will be used to collect data on the environment, morphology, surface structure and atmosphere of Mars."
China plans to send a spacecraft to orbit, land and deploy a rover on Mars in 2020. The probe will be launched on a Long March-5 carrier rocket fr om the Wenchang space launch center in southern China's Hainan Province.
The lander will separate from the orbiter at the end of a journey of around seven months and touch down in a low latitude area in the northern hemisphere of Mars wh ere the rover will explore the surface.
SIX rovers?Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?
SIX rovers?Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN? Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?Don't think it will too hard or expensive for the Chinese to set up DSN tracking sites in Africa and Latin America.
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN? Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?
So I've never thought about this, but do the Chinese have their own version of the DSN? Or will they simply buy time on the DSN?
SIX rovers?Apparently 6 payloads (instruments) on a rover?
That's correct (I have checked the original Chinese article). Also the 13 instruments refers to those on the orbiter.
Does anyone have a full list of them?
details of the payload start to emerge. A 50 cm-per pixel camera
China is sending one of the most powerful deep space cameras to Mars
http://gbtimes.com/china-is-sending-one-of-the-most-powerful-deep-space-cameras-to-mars
China plans to implement the first Mars exploration mission in 2020. It will conduct global and comprehensive exploration of Mars and high precision and fine resolution detection of key areas on Mars through orbiting, landing and roving. The scientific objectives include studying the Martian morphology and geological structure characteristics, studying the soil characteristics and the water-ice distribution on the Martian surface, studying the material composition on the Martian surface, studying the atmosphere ionosphere and surface climate and environmental characteristics of Mars, studying the physical field and internal structure of Mars and the Martian magnetic field characteristics. The mission equips 12 scientific payloads to achieve these scientific objectives. This paper mainly introduces the scientific objectives, exploration task, and scientific payloads.
Scientific Objectives and Payloads of Chinese First Mars Exploration
http://www.cjss.ac.cn/EN/abstract/abstract2602.shtml
“Mars 2020 mission spacecraft is undergoing integration,” Wang Chi, director of the National Space Science Center (NSSC) in Beijing, told SpaceNews in a rare update on the mission.
<snip>
The NSSC will be involved in integration of the instruments with the spacecraft.
A successful launch of the Long March 5 will be required for China to be ready for the Mars Hohmann transfer window in [July-August] 2020, and missing this low-energy launch period would bring a wait of 26 months until the next mission launch opportunity.
I am seeing comments on the launch thread that this spacecraft is named HX-1 which means "Mars 1" (original!). Can someone please tell me what the "HX" stands for?Hou Xing, Fire star which is Mars.
I just wonder why they dropped the Yinghuo name (that of the failed Fobos-Grunt subsatellite)My guess is the new project don't yet have an official name yet, as the Chinese name is still very generic. A naming competition probably will happen, Yinghuo-2 could be still be in the running, however, it is a very modest, failed mission from quite a while ago, so there is no attachment to that name.
The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.
The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.
Do you have the original source of this slide/presentation?
It's an orbiter nevertheless: it will have medium-res and high-resolution cameras (up to 0.5-m resolution), a magnetometer, subsurface radar, and several particles and infrared spectrometers.
The bottom part looks more like a cruise stage than an orbiter.
It's an orbiter nevertheless: it will have medium-res and high-resolution cameras (up to 0.5-m resolution), a magnetometer, subsurface radar, and several particles and infrared spectrometers.
Do you have the original source of this slide/presentation?
The name and logo of China's first Mars exploration mission will be made public on the Space Day of China, which will fall on April 24, according to the China National Space Administration.
I can't do better than link to Emily Lakdawalla's article and map here:Thank you for that information.
https://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/map-every-mars-landing-attempt.html (https://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/map-every-mars-landing-attempt.html)
(but later I will add more detail on the preferred landing area).
The important discoveries of Mars exploration in the past 20 years and the major unsolved questions on Martian life, climate and geology were reviewed. The scientific goals, payloads information and engineering constrains of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) 2020 Mars mission were presented. In addition, the geologic characteristics of the top 8 candidate landing sites selected by hundreds of planetary scientists in three landing site selection workshops were described. Three candidate landing zones for China's 2020 Mars mission were proposed based on the different mission goals: 1) addressing key life, climate and geology questions; 2) resource reconnaissance for future human missions; 3) engineering demonstration.
Scheduled for an Earth-to-Mars launch opportunity in 2020, the China’s Mars probe will arrive on Mars in 2021 with the primary objective of injecting an orbiter and placing a lander and a rover on the surface of the Red Planet. For China’s 2020 Mars exploration mission to achieve success, many key technologies must be realized. In this paper, China’s 2020 Mars mission and the spacecraft architecture are first introduced. Then, the preliminary launch opportunity, Earth–Mars transfer, Mars capture, and mission orbits are described. Finally, the main navigation schemes are summarized.
China's Mars probe photographs Earth and Moon
Source: Xinhua | 2020-07-28 20:49:56 | Editor: huaxia
BEIJING, July 28 (Xinhua) -- China's Mars probe, Tianwen-1, captured images of the Earth and Moon, about 1.2 million kilometers from Earth, the China National Space Administration said on Tuesday.
China launched its first Mars mission Tianwen-1, which means Questions to Heaven, on July 23, marking the country's first step in planetary exploration of the solar system.
has any of our Chinese speakers tried to translate the 29 slide screen grabs at the bottom of this SFF page?
http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/event/cz-5-yz-2_yh-2?instance_id=3501
even with my limited Chinese (I've started to learn a bit of it as my covid lockdown project) I can see that there are fairly interesting information, including (if I understand correctly) plans for the first sols on the surface of Mars (slide 18)
For slide 18 it says that the rover will perform initial sensing of the landing site on Sol 1, first movement on Sol 2 and first scientific operations on Sol 3.
I've notice recently TIANWEN-1 is taking commercial breaks. Part way through my pass each day over the last couple of nights the probe has stopped transmitting on 8530MHz. Maybe QSY, but it does come back after a few 10s of minutes.
We have visual! Here's a first image of Mars from Tianwen-1! Source: mp.weixin.qq.com/s/qy_M1IHgzP9O… (CASC/CNSA)
i think both ISRO and CNSA were/are using low res. cameraI hope the quality of the Medium Res Camera (MRC) of CNSA is performing better in orbit. ISRO looks better at the moment. Tianwen-1's camera looks a little bit fuzzy.
i think both ISRO and CNSA were/are using low res. cameraI hope the quality of the Medium Res Camera (MRC) of CNSA is performing better in orbit. ISRO looks better at the moment. Tianwen-1's camera looks a little bit fuzzy.
Here is a nice illustration of the location of the science payloads onboard Tianwen-1 I took from an article from "Info Shymkent": https://www.shymkent.info/2021/02/08/first-spacecrafts-from-arabia-and-china-arrive-at-red-planet/ (https://www.shymkent.info/2021/02/08/first-spacecrafts-from-arabia-and-china-arrive-at-red-planet/)
You can find the MRC on the right illustration next to the High-Res Camera (HRC).
China航天
50分钟前
天问一号探测器将于O今晚20时前后 ，实施近火制动， 进入火星轨道。截至今日17时00分， 天问一号距离火星只有约5万公里。
China Aerospace
50 minutes ago
The Tianwen-1 probe will implement near-fire braking around 20 o'clock tonight and enter Mars orbit. As of 17:00 today, Tianwen-1 is only about 50,000 kilometers away from Mars.
Two hours to MOI burn.Based on the info on this site, and assuming that all quoted times are UTC+8, the timeline for the Mars orbit insertion burn of the Tianwen-1 probe is
https://weibo.com/5616492130/K1iC7xUFk?from=page_1005055616492130_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment#_rnd1612950710124QuoteChina航天
50分钟前
天问一号探测器将于O今晚20时前后 ，实施近火制动， 进入火星轨道。截至今日17时00分， 天问一号距离火星只有约5万公里。
China Aerospace
50 minutes ago
The Tianwen-1 probe will implement near-fire braking around 20 o'clock tonight and enter Mars orbit. As of 17:00 today, Tianwen-1 is only about 50,000 kilometers away from Mars.
刚刚，中国首次火星探测任务天问一号探测器实施近火捕获制动，环绕器3000N轨控发动机点火工作约15分钟，探测器顺利进入环火轨道，成为#我国第一颗人造火星卫星#，实现“绕、着，巡”第一步“绕”的目标，环绕火星获得成功！中国航天加油！（总台央视记者崔霞 王世玉 李宁 李厦 陶嘉树 黄宝池 吴天白）
Just now, China’s first Mars exploration mission, the Tianwen-1 probe, implemented the near-Mars capture brake. The 3000N orbital control engine of the orbiter ignited for about 15 minutes. The probe successfully entered the circular fire orbit and became my country’s first artificial Mars satellite. "Go around, around, patrol" The first step of "around" the goal, orbiting Mars is a success! Come on, China Aerospace! (CCTV reporter Cui Xia Wang Shiyu Li Ning Li Xia Tao Jiashu Huang Baochi Wu Tianbai)
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)
Haven't been able to find a clear rationale, but Mars Express did something similar in 2003:
http://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Mars_Express/Mars_Express_scheduled_orbit_change
The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)It won`t be cheap in terms of delta-v, in fact it needs more delta-v comparing to straight pole insertion.
Of course, but it will be cheaper to do it now, at apogee in a highly elliptical initial orbit, than it would be to do it later on in a more circular orbit. That was my point, which I didn't make clear enough.The inclination change is interesting. It'll probably be pretty cheap in term of delta-v an apogee in a eccentric orbit, but why not insert over the poles so to speak? (Reminds me of when I screw up my approch in Kerbal...)It won`t be cheap in terms of delta-v, in fact it needs more delta-v comparing to straight pole insertion.
I'm sure they doing this is because it`s a safe plan, in the case of main engine ignition failure (TW-1 only have a huge main engine) the current inclination change plan should have a chance to give TW-1 a second try.
Some new CGTN infographics,What do they mean by "human missions"?!? :o
Some new CGTN infographics,What do they mean by "human missions"?!? :o
I was expecting Mars to be reddish. Is that white color natural or is it an over-exposure of the camera?
I was expecting Mars to be reddish. Is that white color natural or is it an over-exposure of the camera?
The view is similar to that achieved during the Rosetta Mars flyby.
The view is similar to that achieved during the Rosetta Mars flyby.
That was a colorized b/w image.
The image was taken by CIVA, the imager on the lander (rather, one of the imaging systems on the lander). It was a visible light camera system with 7 mini-cameras which produced the panoramic view of the landing site. Another imager provided IR data for compositional analysis. As far as I can tell (I'm not finding a clear statement to this effect) it was a monochrome system. Certainly all the images I can find from it are B/W except this Mars image. So yes, I think it was colorized.
Is there any image of the planet after orbital insertion?
The apoapsis radius of this 2 sidereal day orbit is 61217 km (giving an apoapsis altitude of 57821 km), while the periapsis has an altitude of 282 km (logically, still close to the 280 km we started with on Saturday). Therefore, some care should be taken when quoting this as a 265 x 60000 km orbit. That can be slightly misleading, as it is not clear if 60000 km refers to the apoapsis radius or altitude.
To summarize, in this post we have shown that it is very likely that the purpose of the current orbit is to pass over the landing site at next periapsis on 2021-02-23 22:31:37 UTC. Then a burn would lower the apoapsis further to obtain an orbit with a period of 2 sidereal days that has a repeating ground track passing over the landing site.
The image was taken by CIVA, the imager on the lander (rather, one of the imaging systems on the lander). It was a visible light camera system with 7 mini-cameras which produced the panoramic view of the landing site. Another imager provided IR data for compositional analysis. As far as I can tell (I'm not finding a clear statement to this effect) it was a monochrome system. Certainly all the images I can find from it are B/W except this Mars image. So yes, I think it was colorized.
Thanks. However the similar lack of contrast in the Mars image is still relevant (perhaps)
With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?
Of course they will take it, just for calibration or maping purposes. I'm just asking if publish them would be understood. Don't want to start a discussion here, but press and media, so more interested in gossiping than science, may show it more like being "spied" or China nosyness, which Chinese may not want. (you know, the press guys)With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?
roughly 2 X 5 pixels.
Why would taking a picture be nosy? MRO has taken pictures of others' hardware on Mars and LRO on the Moon. Why should Tianwen not do they same?
Of course they will take it, just for calibration or maping purposes. I'm just asking if publish them would be understood. Don't want to start a discussion here, but press and media, so more interested in gossiping than science, may show it more like being "spied" or China nosyness, which Chinese may not want. (you know, the press guys)With that resolution Perseverance would be around, a pixel?
Is it possible that they publish a picture of it in future or would it be considered “politically nosy”?
roughly 2 X 5 pixels.
Why would taking a picture be nosy? MRO has taken pictures of others' hardware on Mars and LRO on the Moon. Why should Tianwen not do they same?
China’s Mars rover due to attempt landing in mid-May--Chi Wang, director-general of China's NSSC says during 3/23 National Academies' Space Science Week panel. "We are open to international cooperation and the data will be available publicly soon," he said.
I received the message from two independent sources in China, that landing is planned for May 15th and exploration by rover will start on May 22nd.
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.Why do you think that? I see a standard entry.
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.Why do you think that? I see a standard entry.
The only strange part is cruise stage being below the landing capsule.
Hmm, apparently the entire spacecraft complex will head for atmospheric entry, the orbiter will perform a divert maneuver to go back into orbit following entry module separation. Risky.Why do you think that? I see a standard entry.
The only strange part is cruise stage being below the landing capsule.
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
As somebody pointed out to me, this is actually not uncommon. For instance, Galileo did it with its atmosphere probe.
It might seem riskier, but if you think out the whole issue, it isn't--if you choose instead to add a second propulsion system, that system can fail, and you now have to test two propulsion systems, not one, adding complexity. Also, the propulsion system on the mother spacecraft either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't work the first time, both spacecraft are doomed, so it's not really adding much risk if it doesn't work the second time.
The diagram depicts a propulsive event *before* orbiter / entry module separation. There would be no need for that
unless the EM had no propulsive capability of its own and needs the orbiter's propulsion system to
target it to the atmospheric entry aim point. But I could be wrong.
As somebody pointed out to me, this is actually not uncommon. For instance, Galileo did it with its atmosphere probe.
It might seem riskier, but if you think out the whole issue, it isn't--if you choose instead to add a second propulsion system, that system can fail, and you now have to test two propulsion systems, not one, adding complexity. Also, the propulsion system on the mother spacecraft either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't work the first time, both spacecraft are doomed, so it's not really adding much risk if it doesn't work the second time.
Blackstar, I take your point about adding risk by adding complexity.On your second point I was actually thinking that Tianwen 1 could do a Viking where the EM carried its own deorbit propulsion system, so there would be no need for the orbiter to fire its engine at all - it would remain safely in orbit.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.
Perhaps “land successfully “ on Mars would be more appropriate.?.there was Beagle 2...
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?
It's pretty common for folks not to count that one - because it failed so quickly. It would be more precise to say that "China is trying to be the 2nd nation to land a rover on Mars.
Mars3... did transmit an image part...Opinions vary as to whether Mars3 was transmitting valid image data or garbage.
Soviet Union landed PrOP-M rover on Mars-3 lander in 1971 - but it failed to be deployed on martian surfaceBut it was more a sledge than a rover - or a walking robot.
Soviet Union landed PrOP-M rover on Mars-3 lander in 1971 - but it failed to be deployed on martian surfaceBut it was more a sledge than a rover - or a walking robot.
So landing will occur tonight 8)
So landing will occur tonight 8)Do we have an idea of what time? Last I heard yesterday it was something like 16:00 US Pacific Time (where I live).
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/ (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/05/china-first-mars-landing-attempt-tianwen-1/)
https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20 (https://twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/status/1393237516447322112?s=20)
Read this article please, or even just the tweet. If you don't know how to convert UTC to your local time, now is a great time to start :)
| Time | Event |
| – 5 hours (~ 6 pm UTC) | 277.000 km above Mars the Tianwen-1 spacecraft will perform the last maneuver by lowering the orbit to about a height of 50 km above the planned landing site. |
| – 5 min (~ 11 pm UTC) | Separation of the Lander section from Tianwen-1 at around 150 km above Mars. The Tianwen-1 spacecraft is performing another maneuver to not dip to deep into the martian atmosphere. |
| +/- 0 sec | Landing capsule entering the Mars atmosphere at around 125 km above the Mars surface with a velocity of 4.8 km/s. |
| + 1 min 40 sec | Maximum heat on the heat shield of the lander at around 40 km above Mars. |
| + 4 min 44 sec | Parachute deploy at around 10 km above martian surface. The lander has a speed of 460 m/s. |
| + 5 min 10 sec | Heat shield separation. The lander is flying with a speed of 250 m/s to the ground. Lander radar and camera is searching to detect the area of the final landing site. |
| + 6 min 10 sec | Separation between lander and parachute at around 1000 meters above the surface. The lander is starting to fire its landing engines and is flying to the target landing zone. |
| + 6 min 50 sec | The lander reduced with the landing engines its speed close to zero and is performing now the last landing correction to land on the correct landing site. |
| + 7 min 30 sec | The legs recognize contact with the ground. The landing engines stop working. Landing completed in Utopia Planitia. |
Here is a nice timetable with the timing. The first event already happend 1h 47min ago:
Time Event – 5 hours (~ 6 pm UTC) 277.000 km above Mars the Tianwen-1 spacecraft will perform the last maneuver by lowering the orbit to about a height of 50 km above the planned landing site. – 5 min (~ 11 pm UTC) Separation of the Lander section from Tianwen-1 at around 150 km above Mars. The Tianwen-1 spacecraft is performing another maneuver to not dip to deep into the martian atmosphere. +/- 0 sec Landing capsule entering the Mars atmosphere at around 125 km above the Mars surface with a velocity of 4.8 km/s. + 1 min 40 sec Maximum heat on the heat shield of the lander at around 40 km above Mars. + 4 min 44 sec Parachute deploy at around 10 km above martian surface. The lander has a speed of 460 m/s. + 5 min 10 sec Heat shield separation. The lander is flying with a speed of 250 m/s to the ground. Lander radar and camera is searching to detect the area of the final landing site. + 6 min 10 sec Separation between lander and parachute at around 1000 meters above the surface. The lander is starting to fire its landing engines and is flying to the target landing zone. + 6 min 50 sec The lander reduced with the landing engines its speed close to zero and is performing now the last landing correction to land on the correct landing site. + 7 min 30 sec The legs recognize contact with the ground. The landing engines stop working. Landing completed in Utopia Planitia.
I took it from here: https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable (https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable)
Here is a nice timetable with the timing. The first event already happend 1h 47min ago:
Time Event – 5 hours (~ 6 pm UTC) 277.000 km above Mars the Tianwen-1 spacecraft will perform the last maneuver by lowering the orbit to about a height of 50 km above the planned landing site. – 5 min (~ 11 pm UTC) Separation of the Lander section from Tianwen-1 at around 150 km above Mars. The Tianwen-1 spacecraft is performing another maneuver to not dip to deep into the martian atmosphere. +/- 0 sec Landing capsule entering the Mars atmosphere at around 125 km above the Mars surface with a velocity of 4.8 km/s. + 1 min 40 sec Maximum heat on the heat shield of the lander at around 40 km above Mars. + 4 min 44 sec Parachute deploy at around 10 km above martian surface. The lander has a speed of 460 m/s. + 5 min 10 sec Heat shield separation. The lander is flying with a speed of 250 m/s to the ground. Lander radar and camera is searching to detect the area of the final landing site. + 6 min 10 sec Separation between lander and parachute at around 1000 meters above the surface. The lander is starting to fire its landing engines and is flying to the target landing zone. + 6 min 50 sec The lander reduced with the landing engines its speed close to zero and is performing now the last landing correction to land on the correct landing site. + 7 min 30 sec The legs recognize contact with the ground. The landing engines stop working. Landing completed in Utopia Planitia.
I took it from here: https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable (https://www.shymkent.info/space/chinese-spaceflight/tianwen-1-1st-flagship-mission-to-mars/#timetable)
The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn then
The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn thenWhy it have to separated already? To fly close to four hours together? For me the time schedule fits well.
The idea that the separation manuever is so late and so low must surely be wrong - too late to do a divert burn thenWhy it have to separated already? To fly close to four hours together? For me the time schedule fits well.
At the moment Tianwen-1 and lander are making communication checks. Between 10:30-11:00pm UTC will happen the separation so the Tianwen-1 separation mechanism will give the last big push by springs to the lander. At ~ 11:00pm UTC the spacecraft will roll again and fire the engine of 150 km to avoid to much of the slow down through the martian atmosphere and gain height again. So Tianwen-1 will not reach the perigee of 50 km (the trajectory which was set at 6pm UTC) and will not break apart because of high force through high speed and thin atmosphere.
"Second nation to land on Mars"? But the SovietUnion landed Mars3 in 1971 on Mars as well, and IIRC it transmitted before a quick failure. I guess I am missing something but shouldn't China be counted as the 3rd nation to land on Mars?A touch off topic, but worth mentioning is that one of the theory's as to why we lost the transmission from Mars 3 is that the relay satellite went out of range. The lander sent off of it's data to the mars 3 orbiter which then relayed it back to Earth. However, the Orbiter, which was intended to enter a 25 hour orbit around Mars had a propellent leak while en route to mars. because of this, the orbiter was only able to enter a 12 day, 19 hour orbit. So the theory is that because of this highly elliptical orbit, the orbiter was traveling at a much higher velocity when it was near the planet. Meaning it went out of range shortly after landing. So after Mars 3's EDL, the landed spent 90 seconds up righting itself, deploying it's transmitter's before beginning transmission. Once transmission began, it continued for 14.5 seconds before being lost. The lander expected to be able to talk to the relay again within 19 hours, not 12 1/2 days. So by the time the relay would have gotten a low enough pass over the lander, it's batteries would have been dead.
So landing will occur tonight 8)Do we have an idea of what time? Last I heard yesterday it was something like 16:00 US Pacific Time (where I live).
Read this article please, or even just the tweet. If you don't know how to convert UTC to your local time, now is a great time to start :)
Hopefully a soft touchdown. We just have to wait now.China should know by now: 23:11 + 18 minutes has passed with a few minutes to spare.
Hopefully a soft touchdown. We just have to wait now.China should know by now: 23:11 + 18 minutes has passed with a few minutes to spare.
Did the lander have a 'beacon', an unmodulated carrier detectable from Earth even when sent through the lander's low gain antenna?
After seven months of space travel, three months orbiting and “nine minutes of terror”, China has become the third country in the world to safely land a rover on Mars.Third country after the USSR and the USA to land a rover on Mars.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
https://news.cgtn.com/event/2021/tianwen1-to-mars/index.html
Succesful landing of #Tianwen1, on #Mars! Landing point: 109.7 E, 25.1 N, less than 40 km from target location in Utopia Planitia. More details expected later!
Tianwen-1
----------
The Chinese Tianwen-1 probe has made the country's first successful landing on Mars, on May 14.
The Tianwen-1 Orbiter made an orbit adjust at about 1800 UTC to lower its orbit around
Mars from 277 x 57761 km x 88.7 deg to about -16 x 60300 km x 88.7 deg. At about 2000 UTC
the Tianwen-1 Lander separated from the Orbiter; and around 2030 UTC the Orbiter then raised
periares again to return to its previous orbit. The Lander then descended, beginning
atmospheric entry at 2254 UTC at an altitude of 125 km, a velocity of 4.8 km/s and
an entry angle of -11.2 degrees. At about 2259 UTC the main parachute deployed, and then the
heat shield was jettisoned. The backshell and parachute separated about a minute later
and rocket-powered descent began, leading to a landing at 109.7E 25.1N on Utopia Planitia at 2301 UTC.
The signal from the landing was received on Earth at 2318 UTC after a light travel time of 17m 44s.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
No need to sterilize a mission that is not entering a potential special region.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
No need to sterilize a mission that is not entering a potential special region.
Doesn't NASA have different classes of sterilization for different parts of Mars?
I believe Moon missions are Class I (least effort)
Mars orbiters are Class II
All Mars surface missions are at least Class III
Perseverance is an unprecedented Class V (I don't know which particular missions have been Class IV)
But I could be wrong about that.
Category V. Sample return missions, e.g. Perseverance.Mars2020 is only Category IVb with some higher levels in the sampling system. https://science.nasa.gov/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/Mars_2020_Project_Overview_v3_pptx.pdf slide 20.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
You have a link to support that?
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
You have a link to support that?
Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components. Probes were also assembled in clean rooms.
V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps.
This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions. We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
You have a link to support that?
Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components. Probes were also assembled in clean rooms.
V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps.
This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions. We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.
A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
You have a link to support that?
Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components. Probes were also assembled in clean rooms.
V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps.
This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions. We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.
A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.
Please take it to a planetary protection thread.
This thread is about the Tianwen-1.
FRom one of my Chinese friends I got the following information:
On May 17, Zhurong Mars Rover will communicate with Tianwen-1 by ESA MarsExpress.
FRom one of my Chinese friends I got the following information:
On May 17, Zhurong Mars Rover will communicate with Tianwen-1 by ESA MarsExpress.
I would expect news from ESA were this true.
With apologies to Rocket Lab...
Pics or it didn't happen!
;)
Yes, since the comments does say mutual picuture, so the lander probably has a camera as well. That one is probably operating now, since unlike Chang'e landers, this one is rather Spartan, so I suspect we needs to have the rover fully deployed to start seeing quality pictures.With apologies to Rocket Lab...
Pics or it didn't happen!
;)
Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....
It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
You have a link to support that?
Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components. Probes were also assembled in clean rooms.
V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps.
This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions. We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.
A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.
With apologies to Rocket Lab...
Pics or it didn't happen!
;)
Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....
It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)
There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean.All US Mars landers have been Category IV, and Cat IV requires "bioassays to enumerate the microbial burden, a probability of contamination analysis, an inventory of the bulk constituent organics, and an increased number of implementing procedures." See https://sma.nasa.gov/sma-disciplines/planetary-protection and https://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/displayDir.cfm?Internal_ID=N_PR_8020_012D_&page_name=AppendixB&search_term=8020%2E12
Not to diminish a remarkable accomplishment, but I hope the Chinese followed strict sterilization protocols with the lander. It would be unfortunate if it was carrying microbes that could in time contaminate the Martian environment. Or maybe I'm exaggerating the problem? NASA follows these protocols for a reason.
Did the Soviets with Mars 3?
Yes.
You have a link to support that?
Brian Harvey 2007, Russian planetary exploration, Springer/Praxis, p 132 mentions sterilisation of lander components. Probes were also assembled in clean rooms.
V. G. Perminov (1999) The difficult road to Mars p52 (NASA monographs in aerospace history 15) gives more details. Components were sterilised by a range of techniques including gases (methyl bromide), radioactive and thermal. None of these techniques could be used with the completely assembled lander. The lander was assembled in a sterile facility equipped with air filtration and germicidal lamps.
This is fine for spacecraft landing in what we now know to be non special regions. We really need to stop assuming that the US is the only entity that cares about planetary protection.
A clean room is not sterile. So the sterilized components would have been contaminated.
Depends on How it was done. Phoenix had sterile components, but was assembled in a clean room. That's because the sampling arm would access zones with potential liquid water. The rest was only clean.
Opportunity, Spirit, Insight etc. were not sterilised, in whole or in part.
There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean. The Vikings were the only one that was sterilised as well as clean, because it had experiments onboard designed to culture organisms.
There was no need for the M71P landers to be sterilised, the procedures followed went above and beyond was what required at the time. There is no need in hindsight either, neither neither of the landers ended up in a potential "special region" (a more recent category).
There is no need for Zhurong to have any more than a reduced bioload. It's not in a potential special region, not will it access a such environments, nor is it a life detection mission.
If microbes can survive the 6 month exposure to the vacuum of space, then they can survive on Mars and be transported around the planet by dust storms. If they can't survive the 6 month journey, then what is the point of sterilizing the craft.
If microbes can survive
I thought this was being moved to another thread? Totally irrelevant to today's wait for imagery!
There is no general requirement that Mars landers have to be sterile, only clean.All US Mars landers have been Category IV, and Cat IV requires "bioassays to enumerate the microbial burden, a probability of contamination analysis, an inventory of the bulk constituent organics, and an increased number of implementing procedures." See https://sma.nasa.gov/sma-disciplines/planetary-protection and https://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/displayDir.cfm?Internal_ID=N_PR_8020_012D_&page_name=AppendixB&search_term=8020%2E12
It's true that having a low bioburden doesn't mean "sterile" but I'd say it means more than "clean". I've worked on a lot of Marsbound hardware that had no detectable bioburden when we shipped it.
If microbes can survive
I thought this was being moved to another thread? Totally irrelevant to today's wait for imagery!
Good idea.
With apologies to Rocket Lab...
Pics or it didn't happen!
;)
Jokes aside...I have to believe pictures have been taken...China has no obligation to share any pictures and I have no reason to believe they didn’t land successfully but.....
It would nice to have at least one picture....you know, just because ...:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJyE0teEDvg
@2:29 - Professor Yang Yuguang from the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation mentions that China is planning to carry out a Mars sample return mission in the future. Are there any more details on this?
Is last chang’e sample return misson payload size enough for mars sample return?
At least lander / return vehicle size could be similar...orbiter should require extra fuel to return
China has no obligation to share any pictures
China has no obligation to share any pictures
I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere. Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.
Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there.
Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.
China has no obligation to share any pictures
I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere. Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.
Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there.
Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.
What hypocrisy! "Nothing USA does is political, but everything China does has a political dimension". Did you forget the purpose of Apollo already? And did you forget that it is the USA that has refused to cooperate with China in space?
Take your politics to reddit.
China has no obligation to share any pictures
I would say it does, but not the sort of obligation written into a piece of paper anywhere. Sharing the results of a space probe shows that a country understands the significance of what it's doing, and is worthy of doing it.
Nothing can diminish the accomplishment in itself, but it's hard to avoid the impression that: We go to Mars because it's there, while China has gone to Mars only because we are there.
Being tight-lipped with results would only cement that impression.
What hypocrisy! "Nothing USA does is political, but everything China does has a political dimension". Did you forget the purpose of Apollo already? And did you forget that it is the USA that has refused to cooperate with China in space?
Take your politics to reddit.
China has no obligation to share any pictures
You of all people should know this: NASA have three orbiters in place to relay images. China’s only orbiter had to deliver the lander to the surface, escape the gravity back to its orbit (2-day period), change obit/Lower its period to relay lander signal to earth.
An orbit adjustment will be performed today to lower period to 8 hours. Also Zhurong is solar powered, not RTG, the window of opportunities to transmit images is much narrower. So far only sensor and state data were transmitted. Don’t expect pictures till mid week.
How you do things affects your credibility.What does this even mean? Credibility among whom? Let's regulate our perception of their "credibility" with a little humility, and raise the quality of the discourse here.
I would add that any Americans who are impatient to see China's images should do what it takes to allow some cooperation.Which means what? AFAIK the Chinese have never asked NASA for anything in terms of supporting the mission.
No point asking for it, it's illegal. The action has to come from the other end.If you're referring to the so-called Wolf clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_exclusion_policy_of_NASA exceptions can and have been granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis.
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOLNo point asking for it, it's illegal. The action has to come from the other end.If you're referring to the so-called Wolf clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_exclusion_policy_of_NASA exceptions can and have been granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis.
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOLNot only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
Seems strange that they can't return images via the rover's HGA direct to Earth.They say this link is only 16 bps. OK for slow telemetry but not for images.
Seems strange that they can't return images via the rover's HGA direct to Earth. In 1997, Pathfinder managed to send quite a few images shortly after landing without a relay of any kind.Rover is not yet deployed, so its antennas are not in action yet.
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOLNot only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/
You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOLNot only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/
There was also a cooperative sharing of data when Tianwen-1 reached Mars to make sure that it would not collide with any other orbiter currently at Mars. And there was cooperation over CE-3.
But the cooperation was very limited. And the US got burned on the CE-3 example when China was supposed to provide data on the exhaust burn time so that LADEE could monitor it and they failed to do so. NASA officials were angered by that.
Any agreement to use American spacecraft as relays for Chinese data would be a major cooperative effort, and it would also use up DSN time, taking it away from American spacecraft. Even with congressional approval, I doubt that NASA would be interested.
That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.
How can exchanging orbit data/coordinates be viewed as 'cooperation'? better call it 'safety protocol'You really believe "exceptions can be granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis"? LOLNot only do I believe it, it's already happened in the case of LRO and the Yutu 2 rover.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farside-politics-the-west-eyes-moon-cooperation-with-china/
That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.
https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/
"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.
That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”
I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?
Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make. Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?
Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make. Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.
Why would they mind? Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.
New photos from Tianwen 1 has just hit the ground!
Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?
Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make. Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.
Why would they mind? Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.
Good point, but I think the Chinese would be upset if, in fact, the lander had crashed.
There's a well established "open skies" policy here on Earth where satellites can image any location on the planet, including the most sensitive Chinese military sites (or for the Chinese, American). It would be very strange to argue that America can't image a site on Mars while the Chinese are using their satellites to observe the US military.Can HiRISE take photos of the landing location? Does it fly above it, or the orbit is unsuitable?
Excellent idea, but that may be Administrator Nelson's, or even a White House-level decision to make. Chinese may not like a spy satellite-like photo of their lander being published.
Why would they mind? Did they object to pictures of their lunar landings? No.
That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.
https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/
"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.
That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”
I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
This was an interesting thing... I think we can add a bit more. The Foust article was published in late 2018. At that time only one Chinese spacecraft had crashed on the Moon - Chang'e 1, intentionally deorbited - so calling it un-named is a bit odd. And that occurred before the launch of LRO, so the story is clearly confused. It was actually the possibility of earth-based observations of the impact that was being discussed. The impact was near the equator and if it had been delayed it could have struck the surface near one of the Apollo sites. I suspect a hasty decision to de-orbit while it was still possible (as fuel was almost depleted) to preclude the possibility of an uncontrolled impact further west. I think Foust's sources were confused on that point.That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.
https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/
"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.
That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”
I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
You have to think about how NASA officials looked at this--they were under the Wolf restriction for a long time and they asked for a waiver to talk to the Chinese. Then they got screwed on the deal. That's part of the context whenever anybody talks about future cooperation with China--there is already an existence proof that it can go wrong.
Wait, observations of the impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft before 2018 using LRO?That's not what I heard. I heard its just that their landing plan(time & location) just could not meet LADEE's flyover time or orbit. NASA sent request too late when CE3 team already had most things in plan settled. NASA understood it and still carried certain observation and nobody got frakked off for that.
https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-the-challenges-to-chinese-space-cooperation/
"Before we celebrate a new era in U.S.-China space cooperation, though, there are obstacles to overcome on both sides of the Pacific. Pace lamented a lack of trust between the U.S. and China. He cited as an example the difficulties coordinating with China a planned impact of an unnamed Chinese spacecraft on the moon: American scientists were interested in observing that impact with NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, and exchanged information on orbits with the intent on coordinating observations of the impact.
That impact, though, ultimately occurred without any notification of time or location by the Chinese, “much to the irritation of the U.S. scientists who spent a lot of time on this,” Pace said. “This is not the way to build trust.”
I will also add that I was told about this by a senior NASA planetary science official long before this October 2018 article was published.
[...]turns out that the reason why the apoapsis altitude keeps decreasing slowly is the non-spherical gravity of Mars, rather than atmospheric drag at periapsis (its effect is several orders of magnitude weaker)
I estimated that 900 kg of fuel would remain after the phasing into the reconnaissance orbit. There have been four small apoapsis raising burns since then, so perhaps around 850 kg remained for the deorbit burn. Using this and a dry mass of 2500 kg gives a burn duration of 24 seconds with the 3 kN thruster, and 22 kg of spent fuel.
During the Chang’e 5 mission, which was composed of several stages, we were able to see different ranges of APIDs disappear from the telemetry as some of the stages separated and were left behind. This has also happened with Tianwen-1. Since the start of the mission, we saw that the real time telemetry sent data from two spacecraft IDs: 82 and 245. When the spacecraft was launched from Earth, the data corresponding to spacecraft 82 contained mostly static data, so we believed this to be assigned to the lander, which would be dormant. All the telemetry we’ve been analysing, such as the state vectors and ADCS telemetry has been from spacecraft 245.
Interestingly, no telemetry replay over high-speed data was seen after the collision avoidance burn. After most of the manoeuvres the data recorded while the spacecraft was using the low-gain antenna is played back over high-speed data. In this case perhaps it was replayed after the landing, since monitoring the progress of the lander in real time would have been the priority.
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1394534489376759808?s=19Yes, it its strange. But when we looking on the next planned steps it feels like the whole ground operations of Zhurong are slow like a snail:
I have no idea what that really means, or if this is planned.
Lately, a lot of people have asked why there is still no picture of the Zhurong rover. Is there a problem with the rover after two or three days of landing? But don't worry, we'll explain the reason why there is no picture yet:
As shown in the picture, an independent direct-to-ground communication method was used on the day of landing. The transmission rate of this ground-to-ground communication mode is only 16 bit / s. This means 2 bytes per second. Below this bandwidth, only the detector status can be judged and it is extremely difficult to realize the image return. If a 100K low-definition image is not compressed, it will take approximately 14 hours to transfer. That little picture thumbnail would then return to earth. But we have not been able to do this so far. The bandwidth is occupied by Zhurong's sensors and controls.
However, after three days of Mars, i.e. tonight, the rover will attempt to establish a UHF communication link with the Tianwen-1 in orbit for the first time over the landing area. The overflight takes 8 to 10 minutes. If the configuration is correct, 20 MBit (2.5 MB) of data can be returned daily. An X-band communication link is then established every 3 days. Each communication on this communication link achieves a data volume of 6.25 MB (50 MBit).
So if all goes well, tonight (it is currently 3:30 p.m. in Beijing) you may receive the first data packet of around 2.5MB from Zhurong. Let's look forward to the small data package with 2.5 Mbit. If it doesn't include a photo of Mars, don't be discouraged. Wait a few more days and the data will be sent back one by one. I believe that sooner or later we will see the first photo sent from the surface of Mars in our country!
Utopia Planitia has many candidate mud volcanoes and the extraordinary possibility of exploring one with this mission is undeniably one of the most exciting scenarios [...] Mud volcanism is caused by the diapiric rise of less dense muddy slurry which can originate through a number of processes. If it occurred in Utopia, it was possibly caused by exertion of pressure in the subsurface due to freeze-down. In this way, all known geological processes in the region might be linked up: a) the region might have or not have been an ancient ocean but it was b) resurface by volcanism and c) sequestered a lot of ice in the subsurface which resulted in d) alteration and extrusion of muddy, altered materials. Even at low temperatures, small amounts of fluids within ice can dramatically alter minerals. Though the idea of modern day life on Mars is a controversial one, the facts remain that: 1) methane periodically occurs in the Martian atmosphere inexplicably, 2) mud volcanism often associated with methane outgassing seems to have occurred in the landing site area, and 3) the modern subsurface of Mars is habitable from a energy-water-porosity standpoint (Tarnas et al., 2021). It is unlikely that mud volcanism is occurring today, but nonetheless, exploration of surface materials and expelled subsurface materials in the landing site area presents an opportunity for groundbreaking discovery by Zhurong and its excellent science team.
One of the most direct ways its observations might affect planetary science is by searching for subsurface ice in-situ using a ground penetrating radar. This instrument will be able to resolve boundaries in fundamentally different types of materials such as ice, empty pore space and rock/soil. The Mars Surface Compound Detector (MCSD) will be able to quantify surface chemistry and characterize spectral absorptions in minerals. A big question that can be addressed is whether the ice-mediated periglacial processes have led to aqueous alteration of volcanic protoliths. Many people assume that periglacial processes only lead to physical cracking and comminution of rocks (not chemical alteration), but when we look closely at minerals altered within Antarctic ice, we see evidence for intense alteration. Do we see altered minerals in the periglacial volcanic plains of Utopia Planitia? If the rover can travel far enough, it might be able to visit the edge of cliffs and troughs associated with polygonal terrain, revealing fundamental new insights into how periglacial processes have operated on Mars
In order to regulate its temperature, Zhurong is covered with aerogel and can make use of two containers (the two circles on the top deck) to store heat during the day and free it up during the night, thanks to phase-changing undecane.
PICTURES (and sep video)!:
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1394962319780818944
Judging by the comments on the announcement, the Chinese are equally as frustrated about the lack of photos as we are.
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.
Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.
Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?
They have instruments on the rover to look for subsurface ice, and they had time to pick the landing area while observing from orbit. Do we know if the CNSA selected a landing zone on the basis of likelihood of presence of shallow, subsurface ice?
There are also some bright, flat-looking patches of land off in the distance.
Possibly the parachute and backshell lying on the ground ?
https://youtu.be/ep7Hb0_GPbUDid the lander turn after separation? ???
Did the lander turn after separation? ???
This is not visible in animations.
Did the lander turn after separation? ???
It would need to orient itself into the correct attitude for entry
This is not visible in animations.
Did the lander turn after separation? ???
It would need to orient itself into the correct attitude for entry
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?
May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos
NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:
“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”
CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.
For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:
https://www.nasa.gov
-end-
Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)
Looks colorized to me.found a bigger one from twitter https://twitter.com/alanmir (https://twitter.com/alanmir)
May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos
NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:
“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”
CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.
For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:
https://www.nasa.gov
-end-
Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)
CNSA discounts the successful Soviet Mars landing(s) even though they succumbed quickly for unknown reasons. Since they did not perform any science and survive their first SOL NASA did not count them.May 20, 2021
RELEASE 21-067
NASA Statement on China’s Zhurong Mars Rover Photos
NASA Administrator Sen. Bill Nelson issued the following statement Wednesday after the China National Space Administration’s release of the first photos from the Zhurong Mars rover:
“Congratulations to the China National Space Administration on receiving the first images from the Zhurong Mars rover!” Nelson said. “As the international scientific community of robotic explorers on Mars grows, the United States and the world look forward to the discoveries Zhurong will make to advance humanity’s knowledge of the Red Planet. I look forward to future international discoveries, which will help inform and develop the capabilities needed to land human boots on Mars.”
CNSA’s successful landing of the Zhurong rover last week makes it only the second nation to ever land successfully on Mars. Zhurong joins active NASA missions – the Curiosity and Perseverance rovers and Insight Lander – in exploring the surface of the Red Planet.
For more information on NASA and agency activities, visit:
https://www.nasa.gov
-end-
Marc Etkind / Jackie McGuinness
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1600
[email protected] / [email protected]
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos (https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-statement-on-china-s-zhurong-mars-rover-photos)
I think that settles the debate on whether China is the second or third country to successfully land on Mars.
I think that settles the debate on whether China is the second or third country to successfully land on Mars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdptwD6-WT4I was watching it and noticed that too. Could they not make their own animation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdptwD6-WT4I was watching it and noticed that too. Could they not make their own animation?
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?
Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?
Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.
Do you have a link to this two ton orbiter, including when it was proposed?
I wonder, would we have gotten photos from Zhurong faster if Yinghuo 1 had made it to Mars?
Well, Yinghuo 1 is too small to make a difference, but if the 2 ton orbiter from 2015 didn't get canceled then it will certainly help. (assume it remains in Mars Orbit) Which would mean China is on the 3-step discrete mission path rather than a single heavy bundle. So this alternative universe would have a 2nd orbiter in 2018, and then just the lander in 2020.
Do you have a link to this two ton orbiter, including when it was proposed?
The international presentation is in 2011 just before YH-1 was launched, though I have seen reference to 3 step plan for Mars as early as 2002 in Chinese with 2020 being the target date for the land phase.
Btw this presented was shared in the forum back then there was quite a bit of discussion about it.
Clearly this was cancelled in favour of the later plan, now realised, which was very bold an ambitious at the time.
News report on the preparation of Rover decent. Apparently they recreated the landing site terrain and run it through the replica before issuing the Rover to come down.
https://m.chinanews.com/wap/detail/zw/gn/2021/05-23/9483612.shtml
Clearly this was cancelled in favour of the later plan, now realised, which was very bold an ambitious at the time.
It is marked as a "proposed" architecture. It was not an official program and thus it was not cancelled
Any MRO confirmation yet?
Any MRO confirmation yet?
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1393539747285377026
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?
Only a few posts up Cosmic Penguin posted a timeline including:Phil, they had announced mutual imaging of the rover and lander for May 27. It'd be a major political event, incuding visit of a Politbureau member to BACC to witness and to congratulate the project. It's really strange and worrying that it didn't occur.
"May 28 - 1st scientific data downlink"
So not much reason for concern on June 3. They may want a full surface panorama before releasing it, rather than just a few frames.
The silence is becoming deafening. Through other channels, even some of the most informed and sober-minded people I've been communicating with, are having concerns that this may be more than limited communications or the Chinese holding out for a big splash photo release. Has anyone heard from your sources about communication sessions from the rover that could retire these concerns?
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions. We are simply spoiled by NASA where every major event is publicly livestreamed, pictures are posted online, and there are press conferences with updates every week.
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.
not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.
not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?
Have they released scientific data? I think they have been very open with mission operations for CE3-5. I remember watching the CE3 landing live on TV, which was a big surprise to me. But they have been a lot more secretive about science results and data. I've attended some of the past few LPSC conferences and there's a view there that the Chinese still don't understand how to participate in international science forums. There is the hope that they'll figure that out and do better in the future.
Doesn't seem concerning, apart from the dismal release policy adopted thus far.
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/status/1400820882772090880
China has been extremely tight-fisted with the data from their space science missions.
not really. have you followed Chang'e 4?
Have they released scientific data? I think they have been very open with mission operations for CE3-5. I remember watching the CE3 landing live on TV, which was a big surprise to me. But they have been a lot more secretive about science results and data. I've attended some of the past few LPSC conferences and there's a view there that the Chinese still don't understand how to participate in international science forums. There is the hope that they'll figure that out and do better in the future.
Yes, and in PDS format (even including Chang’e 5, since March this year): https://moon.bao.ac.cn/index_en.jsp (https://moon.bao.ac.cn/index_en.jsp)
I am in the 'China releases data and publishes plenty' camp so this is not a criticism of their approach... but I feel bound to point out that only one of the papers listed above is based on Chang'e 5 results (the second in the list), and that is only on measuring its landed location. The others are all basically pre-mission studies of the landing area using other datasets. They will be useful in interpreting the actual results when we get them but they are not Chang'e 5 results. The CE4 papers (and there are lots more) are real results based on the mission's extensive data, especially the ground-penetrating radar and infrared spectroscopy. I expect we will get the CE5 results soon enough when their meticulously crafted papers are accepted.
I think the Chinese are having serious problems. China is only the second nation to return a picture from the Martian surface, and the Zhurong landing is a huge triumph for Chinese aerospace. So why so few pictures? Also, we have seen very little from the orbiter. I think that points to a serious failure of some kind.
The rate of release reminds me of Galileo, which of course had a crippled communication system.
By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?
By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?
Light coloured aeolian ripples?
By the way, could someone point out to me what the "wispy" clearer ground patterns in the area are?
Light coloured aeolian ripples?
Would that be dunes, or loose accumulations of sand? In other areas of Mars, dunes are usually darker than surrounding terrain in orbital images, but upon further thought it seems to correlate with the clear dunes accumulated in the craters around the landing site.
Zhurong was understood to be looking roughly due east when on the platform/descending on the ramp, and indeed the image looking in the distance when on top of the platform appears to show the two "wisps" due slightly South of East, to the left of the nearest crater. The lighter-colored North-South markings around the lander due to the landing engines' exhaust are also visible on Zhurong's images, especially those taken once the rover drove down the ramps, and seem to correlate well with their relative shade, just a tad darker than the natural features.
It's eye-catching that most of these dunes, or whatever they are, lie in a similar East-West orientation, although I guess prevailing winds must be pretty stable over that large plain :)
Image source?
Image source?
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!
Do we know if the camera (the one deployed while en route to Mars) flew by Mars or not?
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
That's the correct answer. Also need to mention that the Tianwen-1 orbiter took a selfie on the trip to Mars last September with similar measure, except that the camera was thrown into space instead of being placed on the ground!
Do we know if the camera (the one deployed while en route to Mars) flew by Mars or not?
I guess nobody has the ability to track such a small object in space! The power supply of the camera must be just powerful enough to take several pictures, send them back to the orbiter at the first time and nothing more. The orbiter probably won't be able to receive its signal any more once they are over ten or twenty meters apart.
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
Middle: Those landing thrusters surely do pack a punch! Very clear how they scoured the ground. I wonder if the landing pack is based around two sets of 45 degree-canted thrusters?
Bottom middle: :o As I was saying, they surely pack a punch.
I find it difficult to believe that it can be a result of the smaller thrusters.
I find it difficult to believe that it can be a result of the smaller thrusters.
Could it be the result of the jet of pressurised fuel released for passivation?
Top: Backshell clearly visible in the panorama.
Top middle: Vesicular rocks similar to the ones that spawned some conversation in Perseverance's site.
Middle: Those landing thrusters surely do pack a punch! Very clear how they scoured the ground. I wonder if the landing pack is based around two sets of 45 degree-canted thrusters?
Bottom middle: :o As I was saying, they surely pack a punch.
Bottom: Clear view of the aeolian deposits discussed upthread by myself and Dalhousie.
许洪亮：在“天问一号”火星探测任务中，国家航天局和欧空局、法国国家空间中心、阿根廷空间活动委员会、奥地利研究促进局等4家航天机构，通过载荷搭载、测控支持等方式开展了广泛合作，同时我们还正与法国、奥地利、俄罗斯等有关机构，就天问一号火星探测数据的应用合作保持沟通。同时为了保证火星探测器在轨卫星安全，近期我们正在与美国国家航空航天局、欧空局开展了火星探测器轨道数据交换合作。Google translation
They mentioned pics would be posted on a platform like CE mission, but when...Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.
Thank you for the images!
And here's probably the first "true" video of roving on the Red Planet: the rover backing away from the dropped Wi-Fi camera:
EDL video
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.
Thank you for the images!
Image source?
https://t.bilibili.com/534888969281031676?tab=2
CNSA's account on bilibili.com
Any information on how both the landing planform and the rover were imaged together? Looks like a small camera was placed on the ground to do it
In the chinese article, it state the rover dropped a small camera module ~10 meters from the landing site, then backed up to the lander for the photo.
“着巡合影”图，是火星车行驶至着陆平台南向约10米处，释放安装在车底部的分离相机，之后火星车退至着陆平台附近。分离相机拍摄了火星车移动过程和火星车与着陆平台的合影。图像通过无线信号传送到火星车，再由火星车通过环绕器中继传回地面。
google translate
The picture of the "touring group photo" shows the rover traveling to about 10 meters south of the landing platform, releasing the separate camera installed at the bottom of the vehicle, and then retreating to the vicinity of the landing platform. The separate camera took pictures of the movement of the rover and the photo of the rover and the landing platform. The image is transmitted to the rover through wireless signals, and then relayed by the rover to the ground through the orbiter.
That's SERIOUSLY nifty! Sucks China follows this overly cautious, offputting image release policy for such a valuable exploration mission that could serve them as much-needed good PR for the rest of the world - and frankly gets embarrassing when only complete silence is offered during critical periods. Still, it must be admitted releases such as this make up for a portion of the frustration.
Thank you for the images!
Emphasis mine.
China is not obliged to share their information/data with anyone but themselves. Stop comparing them to NASA and ESA. China's current policy on releasing spaceflight-related info/data is similar to that of the Soviet Union in the 1970's. Live with it.
This constant entitled whinging is getting tiresome. It won't change anything. So live with it and be grateful we get the amazing data we have.. From now on I will report all such posts.
And its a policy discussion better suited for the Space Policy forum, not for a thread discussing a specific mission (since CNSA have applied the same policy of delayed and selective release to all missions).
Zhurong has imaged its own backshell and parachute from 30 meters away:
https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-mars-rover-visits-own-parachute/ (https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-mars-rover-visits-own-parachute/)
Will it now drive to the heatshield further south too, or take a different route?That is the plan, drive south
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/w4rLn3Hy47Ei9dLWknGXOQ (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/w4rLn3Hy47Ei9dLWknGXOQ)
This link goes to a new update with a Chinese map of the traverse and a new image of the 'second dune'.
http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/96085.html (http://www.spaceflightfans.cn/96085.html)
A bit more news: 75 sols, 708 m travelled, and an image. I think the view is to the southeast and about 570 m south of the lander.
The Tianwen-1 orbiter will move into the science orbit.The orbital maneuver is planned for August 17th.
Zhurong completes its designed mission
Many of the pictures here are low-rez. I bet the full-size versions will always be more welcome.
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?
Zhurong is the name given to the Chinese Space Agency's Mars rover mission, and after landing in May it's spent over 90 days traversing the surface of Utopia Planitia, looking for evidence that this might be an ancient sea bed.
As China's first successful attempt to land on Mars a great deal of attention has been given to the state of the lander, parachute and aeroshell, so we've had some fine images of those. However in general the amount of data released so far remains quite small and we expect more as scientists work on the mission.
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?
1) About 8 km SW from the landing site there is a fault bounded trough.
2)About 18 km SW there is a cluster of small, crater-topped conical hills. These could be rootless cones (when lava flows over wet ground), spring mounds (formed by mineral-rich groundwater discharge), pingos (ic4e-cored mounds), or small cinder cones.
3) About 24 km SW is a small mesa of layered rock.
On the other hand, to the SE we have:
4) At 22 km a relatively small (1.3 km) and probably young crater with very high thermal inertia (dark in day time IR, bright in night time) ejecta
5) At 24 km there is an extension of the same trough system at 1) above.
6) at 26 km there is another cluster of small hills
Due south at 29 km there is a fault scarp and a chain of small (100-300 m) craters with high thermal inertia craters
Currently Zhurong is tracking almost due south so could be heading to any of these. If I were to hazard a guess I would say that they are heading to the SW hills.
Average daily progression of Zhurong since deployment has been ~10 m per day, so 20 km will be over five years away.
Remember this is primarily a geophysical mission, collecting subsurface data from the radar and the magnetometer. Not much to see but lots to learn, but only after much data processing.
I understand why they landed in a relatively featureless plain (sensible decision) and as a space enthusiast I find them interesting nonetheless. But, does anyone know how far they need to travel before encountering a greater variety of terrain?
1) About 8 km SW from the landing site there is a fault bounded trough.
2)About 18 km SW there is a cluster of small, crater-topped conical hills. These could be rootless cones (when lava flows over wet ground), spring mounds (formed by mineral-rich groundwater discharge), pingos (ic4e-cored mounds), or small cinder cones.
3) About 24 km SW is a small mesa of layered rock.
On the other hand, to the SE we have:
4) At 22 km a relatively small (1.3 km) and probably young crater with very high thermal inertia (dark in day time IR, bright in night time) ejecta
5) At 24 km there is an extension of the same trough system at 1) above.
6) at 26 km there is another cluster of small hills
Due south at 29 km there is a fault scarp and a chain of small (100-300 m) craters with high thermal inertia craters
Currently Zhurong is tracking almost due south so could be heading to any of these. If I were to hazard a guess I would say that they are heading to the SW hills.
Average daily progression of Zhurong since deployment has been ~10 m per day, so 20 km will be over five years away.
Remember this is primarily a geophysical mission, collecting subsurface data from the radar and the magnetometer. Not much to see but lots to learn, but only after much data processing.
Thanks for this. I suspect the due South trajectory is because they haven't made their mind up where to go next!
Although scientifically this may be a geophysical mission it is primarily tasked with fulfilling the goals of the CCP and politicians like pictures that get the world to take notice. It will be interesting to see where they do go eventually (assuming it lasts that long).
Although scientifically this may be a geophysical mission it is primarily tasked with fulfilling the goals of the CCP and politicians like pictures that get the world to take notice. It will be interesting to see where they do go eventually (assuming it lasts that long).
According to the Tianwen-1 EDL GNC requirements, the GNC modes, GNC architecture, and key GNC algorithms have been described in this paper.
The effectiveness of the GNC system design was demonstrated by the successful landing of the Tianwen-1, which landed on the Mars with a small landing ellipse, a soft touchdown velocity, and a stable vertical attitude.
It should be noted that the Tianwen-1 landed at a site with a low MOLA elevation around a relative flat area. In the future, China will target areas that have higher scientific value, more rugged terrain, and higher MOLA elevation. This puts forward new requirements for the EDL GNC technology, e.g., the GNC system must have high precision navigation capability and have stronger maneuverability or deceleration capability.
*ESA’s Mars Express team is planning a series of five communication tests with the Chinese Zhurong Mars rover in November.
*The Mars Express spacecraft can ‘hear’ the rover, but the rover cannot ‘hear’ Mars Express.
*Zhurong will transmit data ‘blind’ as part of a technique designed over a decade ago but not tested in orbit until now.
*ESA will pass any received data on to the Zhurong team for analysis.
CLEP confirms the telecommunications tests between the Chinese rover Zhurong and ESA's orbiter Mars Express is a success. Transmission was "in the blind", since Zhurong and Mars Express cannot connect between themselves, ¡a true novelty at Mars!
Video from Tianwen's "selfie-stick" deploying and showing the S/C against the Martian curvature's background. I already lost count of how many cameras this mission carried (and possibly some are not even publicly acknowledged at this stage):me too by the way here's the actual camera discussed here estimation shows it is just a undisclosed payload and it is called somewhat by a guess like Mars Orbiter Status Monitoring Sensor (MOSMOS)
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1488030618223063042
but my mind asksVideo from Tianwen's "selfie-stick" deploying and showing the S/C against the Martian curvature's background. I already lost count of how many cameras this mission carried (and possibly some are not even publicly acknowledged at this stage):me too by the way here's the actual camera discussed here estimation shows it is just a undisclosed payload and it is called somewhat by a guess like Mars Orbiter Status Monitoring Sensor (MOSMOS)
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1488030618223063042
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNDeepSpace/status/1487977355662426114
https://mobile.twitter.com/CNDeepSpace/status/1488042267017318405
After the Tianwen-1 mission, China will have a number of Tianwen series of planetary endeavors to explore the universe, according to a Chinese scientist.
Wu Weiren, the chief designer of China's lunar exploration program, said the country's deep space exploration will continue and its Mars mission will be followed by the Tianwen-2, Tianwen-3, and Tianwen-4.
<snip>
The main task of the follow-ups is to explore the asteroids in deep space and bring asteroid samples back to Earth, Wu said in a recent interview.
He also disclosed future plans including explorations of Venus and asteroids in deep space.
Zhurong, China's Mars rover, entered hibernation on May 18 in Utopia Planitia, with the onset of winter in the northern hemisphere. But Zhurong could become active again soon with the onset of Spring and improving solar light conditions (Spring equinox occurring on Dec. 26.).
It's very concerning that CNSA has had no updates of Tianwen-1/Zhurong for quite a while
Should I start getting worried, or?
Some quotes:
"Scientists are still waiting for a signal from China’s Mars rover, which was expected to wake from hibernation last month, according to two sources familiar with the country’s Mars exploration programme
...
The Post independently confirmed with two sources on Thursday that the rover should have resumed running by now, but no contact has been established
...
It was predicted that Zhurong would resume operations around December 26 as the planet’s northern hemisphere entered its spring season and environmental conditions improved.
...
According to Jia Yang, deputy chief designer of the Tianwen-1 probe system, the rover is designed to wake up automatically when two conditions are met: its power level must hit 140 watts and the temperature of key components, batteries included, must exceed minus 15 degrees Celsius (5 degrees Fahrenheit)."
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3205894/chinese-scientists-scramble-wake-mars-rover-plan-send-probe-investigate-sources-say
Should I start getting worried, or?
Some quotes:
"Scientists are still waiting for a signal from China’s Mars rover, which was expected to wake from hibernation last month, according to two sources familiar with the country’s Mars exploration programme
...
The Post independently confirmed with two sources on Thursday that the rover should have resumed running by now, but no contact has been established
...
It was predicted that Zhurong would resume operations around December 26 as the planet’s northern hemisphere entered its spring season and environmental conditions improved.
...
According to Jia Yang, deputy chief designer of the Tianwen-1 probe system, the rover is designed to wake up automatically when two conditions are met: its power level must hit 140 watts and the temperature of key components, batteries included, must exceed minus 15 degrees Celsius (5 degrees Fahrenheit)."
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3205894/chinese-scientists-scramble-wake-mars-rover-plan-send-probe-investigate-sources-say
Did they ever state a design life for the mission? NASA's baseline for Mars missions is usually one Mars year (about 2 Earth years). Was China aiming for something similar?
I thought I read something awhile ago that some people thought it was dead before the "may hibernation". There was a gap in info about that before that announcement.
Its too bad China has too much propaganda wrapped up into everything space related, so that mission people cannot talk about whats happening without fear of retribution.
Member:Its too bad China has too much propaganda wrapped up into everything space related, so that mission people cannot talk about whats happening without fear of retribution.Those are assumptions on your part.
Has anyone heard an update on the Rover status?
Martian soil as revealed by ground-penetrating radar at the Tianwen-1 landing site
https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geology/article-abstract/doi/10.1130/G50632.1/620359/Martian-soil-as-revealed-by-ground-penetrating?redirectedFrom=fulltext
NASA Mars orbiter reveals China’s Zhurong rover has not moved for months
Andrew Jones
February 21, 2023
NASA's HiRISE images show that Zhurong rover has not changed its position between 8 September 2022 and 7 February 2023. Its shape is not as clear as in the image one year ago as the rover is catching more Martian dust.
for reference, China said it was going into hibernation in May, so we know it hasn't really moved since it entered winter hibernation. Too bad it didn't get visted by a winter dust devil
NASA Mars orbiter reveals China’s Zhurong rover has not moved for months
Andrew Jones
February 21, 2023
https://twitter.com/cnspaceflight/status/1628054022363185153QuoteNASA's HiRISE images show that Zhurong rover has not changed its position between 8 September 2022 and 7 February 2023. Its shape is not as clear as in the image one year ago as the rover is catching more Martian dust.
The major take on Chinese internet after HiRise image released is that the rover is ok, but too much dust has covered the solar panel so that it cannot get enough power.
This is possible, but I think such assumption really depends on two things. First, what was the situation of dust last December, when it was supposed to wake up?
Second, how much exactly was the solar panel’s capacity affected?Zhurong is designed to wake up from hibernation when received power exceeds 140w, which I think is only a quarter of its theoretical capacity at current season. While the dust coverage seems to be pretty severe, has it deteriorated that much?
Also, Zhurong doesn’t have RHU and depends on sunlight for thermal control as well.
Not to belittle China's efforts and genuine success at their first landing and rover, but it feels like they're too embarrassed to admit the craft officially died. Mostly stating an observation how they're clearly less transparent than NASA.
Not to belittle China's efforts and genuine success at their first landing and rover, but it feels like they're too embarrassed to admit the craft officially died. Mostly stating an observation how they're clearly less transparent than NASA.
Since it surpassed the design mission by a factor of four, Zhurong has done quite well.
No need to assume "embarrassment" or lack of transparency. Just a preference for non saturation coverage.
Finally some news of Zhurong Mars Rover from within the research team. According to Prof Yi Xu from MUST, orbital images show that Zhurong has been covered by sand and dust, and it has to wait until summer for more solar power to wake up. Source: https://buff.ly/3JgteXe
CNSA has promised there will be some announcement of Tianwen-1 Mars mission on April 24. Hopefully it will include the publish of Mars map and status of Zhurong rover
😮The complete Mars map captured by the Tianwen-1 Mars orbiter has been officially released by CNSA and CAS during today's Space Day opening ceremony. It was also announced that the Zhurong Mars Rover remains in hibernation mode now. Source: buff.ly/41tMW9E
Zhurong: Zhang Rongqiao, chief designer of Tianwen-1 mission, tells CCTV that dust accumulation is the probable cause of the rover not waking. 20% dust coverage will cause issue, 30% requires strongest lighting conditions to reawaken, while 40% means game over, never waking up.
Good to have an official update. So, this is not conclusive. Hard to gauge dust coverage on Zhurong's solar panels from orbit. Could still wake up, with summer solstice but until July 12 . If it can wake up, it can use active dust cleaning measures. It could already be doomed tho
ZHANG Rongqiao on Zhurong: Zhurong keeps hibernation likely due to unexpected dust collection. Electricity wouldn't be enough (140W) if there's 20% more dust than designed limit. 30% means we need to wait until the strongest sunlight. 40% means it would never be able to wake up
Scientists studying data from China's Zhurong rover have for the first time found cracked layers on tiny Martian dunes, which imply the Red Planet was a salt-rich watery world as recently as 400,000 years ago.
Since landing in Mars' northern hemisphere in May 2021, the rover has rolled close to four nearby crescent-shaped dunes in the Utopia Planitia region to investigate their surface composition. All four of the miniature, wind-formed geological features are coated with thin, ubiquitously fractured crusts and ridges that formed thanks to melting small pockets of "modern water" sometime between 1.4 million years to 400,000 years ago, according to a new paper(opens in new tab) published Friday (April 28).
QuoteScientists studying data from China's Zhurong rover have for the first time found cracked layers on tiny Martian dunes, which imply the Red Planet was a salt-rich watery world as recently as 400,000 years ago.
Since landing in Mars' northern hemisphere in May 2021, the rover has rolled close to four nearby crescent-shaped dunes in the Utopia Planitia region to investigate their surface composition. All four of the miniature, wind-formed geological features are coated with thin, ubiquitously fractured crusts and ridges that formed thanks to melting small pockets of "modern water" sometime between 1.4 million years to 400,000 years ago, according to a new paper(opens in new tab) published Friday (April 28).
https://www.space.com/china-zhurong-mars-rover-recent-water-activity
👀 CNSA has recently released a big volume of data by Zhurong's Navigation and Topography Camera and @shujianyang converted them into 810 jpg files https://weibo.com/7394207363/MEcSum14v
More pictures from Mars surface taken by Zhurong Mars Rover after its landing are being released recently. Pic 1 edited by @areoinfo, Pic 2 (810 photos) collected by Weibo:空间栈 buff.ly/3n5ofla
Liquid water on Mars in low attitudes. Researchers studied data from NaTeCam, MSCam, and MarSCoDe instruments aboard Zhurong Mars Rover, and discussed the possibility of water activity at low latitudes during the contemporary period on Mars.
Images showing the Zhurong rover's LIBS laser spectroscopy instrument making holes in Martian rock.
（1/4）#Zhurong 😄😄 打孔前后😄😄
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Zhang Rongqiao, Chief Designer for China’s #Mars Exploration Program said starting from May, the data from the #Tianwen1 mission has been released to the world on a monthly basis following the domestic distribution methods. The same as the data provided to Chinese scientists.
Images from Zhurong rover just released by CNSA/PEC/GRAS. All taken in December 2021.
Upper Kasei Valles on Mars, shot by Tianwen-1 Mars orbiter. Pictures processed by @WLR_2678
The climate of Mars changed dramatically 400,000 years ago
https://www.space.com/mars-climate-shift-china-mars-rover-zhurong?fbclid=IwAR0zKx-z4QWZ0zGONXlSBHJWzCQp1FRyy6XzZ73vf1MmfwP2o45wA6Zn0_g
Open access paper can be found at https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06206-1
Paper explains the reasons why both light and dark dunes are present in the Zhurong rover images.
Martian surface aeolian wind erosion around 65.4E, 5.1N, taken by Tianwen-1 Mars orbiter. Source: buff.ly/3OHTQnS
https://twitter.com/cnsawatcher/status/1688055557976981504Thats a pretty awesome pictureQuoteMartian surface aeolian wind erosion around 65.4E, 5.1N, taken by Tianwen-1 Mars orbiter. Source: buff.ly/3OHTQnS
Zhurong Mars rover has a "hot water bottle". Two skylights, known as heat-collecting windows, are covered with a high-transparency film. Beneath, a material called Undecane melts by day, absorbing heat, and solidifies at night, releasing warmth. Full HD: buff.ly/3LqIp1D
Mars is near 173.4° W 13.9° S, taken by the Tianwen-1 medium resolution camera on 2022-03-04 ~
(Data thanks to CAS/NAOC/GRAS)
Mars is near 25.1° W 20.9° S, taken by the Tianwen-1 medium resolution camera on 2022-03-07 ~
(Data thanks to CAS/NAOC/GRAS)
Mars is near 39.1° W 24.6° S, taken by the Tianwen-1 medium resolution camera on 2022-03-13 ~
(Data thanks to CAS/NAOC/GRAS)
Near Mars 109.1° E 26.2° S, taken by the Tianwen-1 medium-resolution camera on 2022-03-16~
(Data thanks to CAS/NAOC/GRAS)
Mars near 10.7° E 31.1° N, taken by the Tianwen-1 medium resolution camera on 2022-03-14 ~
(Data thanks to CAS/NAOC/GRAS)
Mars is near 102.7° W 27.8° S, taken by the Tianwen-1 medium resolution camera on 2022-03-18~
(Data thanks to CAS/NAOC/GRAS)