NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Russian Launchers - Soyuz, Progress and Uncrewed => Topic started by: Eric Hedman on 10/09/2013 03:34 pm
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New article in Ria Novosti on planned reforms of Russian space agency.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html (http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html)
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New article in Ria Novosti on planned reforms of Russian space agency.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html (http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html)
This opens the door to many questions. I will throw out a few:
"Rogozin said a new state corporation will be created to take over manufacturing facilities from the Federal Space Agency, whose prestige has been severely dented in recent years by a string of failed rocket launches."
Does this mean a takeover or end to private enterprises (space related) in Russia?
"Its also said the agency had only launched 47 percent of Russia's required number of satellites between 2010 and 2012"
What kind of satellites is needed to be launched ? Have these satellites been built and in storage?
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New article in Ria Novosti on planned reforms of Russian space agency.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html (http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html)
This opens the door to many questions. I will throw out a few:
"Rogozin said a new state corporation will be created to take over manufacturing facilities from the Federal Space Agency, whose prestige has been severely dented in recent years by a string of failed rocket launches."
Does this mean a takeover or end to private enterprises (space related) in Russia?
"Its also said the agency had only launched 47 percent of Russia's required number of satellites between 2010 and 2012"
What kind of satellites is needed to be launched ? Have these satellites been built and in storage?
Via Kommersant daily:
New Federal Corporation: United Rocket and Space Corporation, ORKK (Объединенной ракетно-космической корпорации (ОРКК))
Organization Head: Igor Komarov
Organization Goal: The New Organization will formed through the massive consolidation of the Russian rocket and space industry following its planned reorganization.
More info here: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/centers_industry_2010s.html#2013
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New article in Ria Novosti on planned reforms of Russian space agency.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html (http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131009/184031100/Russian-Space-Agency-Faces-Major-Reform.html)
This opens the door to many questions. I will throw out a few:
"Rogozin said a new state corporation will be created to take over manufacturing facilities from the Federal Space Agency, whose prestige has been severely dented in recent years by a string of failed rocket launches."
Does this mean a takeover or end to private enterprises (space related) in Russia?
"Its also said the agency had only launched 47 percent of Russia's required number of satellites between 2010 and 2012"
What kind of satellites is needed to be launched ? Have these satellites been built and in storage?
Via Kommersant daily:
New Federal Corporation: United Rocket and Space Corporation, ORKK
Organization Head: Igor Komarov
Organization Goal: The New Organization will formed through the massive consolidation of the Russian rocket and space industry following its planned reorganization.
More info here: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/centers_industry_2010s.html#2013
From the website above:
Roskosmos faces another management shakeup
On October 7, 2013, Russian media started the week with a flurry of unconfirmed reports about the inevitable replacement of the Russian space agency head Vladimir Popovkin. According to the Izvestiya daily, the Deputy Defense Minister Oleg Ostapenko would be appointed the new boss at the agency. In turn, Popovkin was reportedly offered a position of the presidential adviser on space activities.
In the meantime, the Kommersant daily reported that the Director General of the AvtoVAZ automobile firm Igor Komarov could lead the newly formed United Rocket and Space Corporation, ORKK, which would consolidate the Russian rocket and space industry following its planned reorganization.
According to a posting on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, the Russian space agency, Roskosmos, was expected to emerge from the latest round of reforms with significantly diminished responsibilities, (likely giving real powers within the industry to the head of ORKK).
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
If it's madness, it's of a kind with which any Argentinean in the last two decades ought to be familiar with, particularly if they've paid attention to domestic politics since Nestor Kirchner was president. This kind of "reform" jibes with US intel assessments that are publicly available that basically state that Russia's policies are self-destructive when it comes to economics. To be honest, you should expect this sort of centralized "reform" under Putin's regime. He's been ending governor elections so he can appoint them, he's been trying to crush the opposition, and generally he wants to control as much as possible through the Kremlin. A reform that centralizes the Russian space industry fits very well with Putin's preference for control and someone he can blame for everything. Like Putin's prior economics decisions, I predict this would be a failure. Better to leave the industry as it is and do minor reforms to incentivize better quality control and cut the ridiculously high head count. If you cut the head count and up the salaries for the remaining staff, you should be able to improve the quality of employees you attract while cutting down rocket quality issues. But I guess with Putin in charge this is just a pipe-dream. At best you can hope this reform gets resisted and not implemented (Putin's reform that is).
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
believe that OAO Kuznetsov is part of the TsSKB-Progress group?
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Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev appoints Oleg Ostapenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Ostapenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Ostapenko)) Roscosmos head
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=333944 (http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=333944) (On Russian)
Russia Appoints New Space Chief
Former Deputy Defense Minister Oleg Ostapenko will head up Russia’s Federal Space Agency, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Thursday. The move comes as part of a major reshuffle of the country’s troubled space industry.
Medvedev said he hoped that, as head of the Federal Space Agency Roscosmos, Ostapenko will help streamline the country’s space program, which has experienced numerous setbacks in recent years.
Earlier Thursday, Ostapenko, 56, was relieved of his duties as deputy defense minister and discharged from military service by President Vladimir Putin, in a move preceding his new appointment.
No announcement has yet been made about the Agency’s outgoing head Vladimir Popovkin.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131010/184053658/Russia-Appoints-New-Space-Chief.html
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And there rolls the head of Popovkin. Somewhat belated...but still...
<cynical>Well, on to the next failure and the head-rolling of yet another Roscosmos top official</cynical>
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
If you go by this and the other IHS Janes analysis': (http://www.janes.com/article/26743/russia-s-missile-industries-to-initially-remain-outside-the-orkk) then no one is left out of the Poison Pills. It turns out that the idea for ORKK was presented the first time to the Duma after the investigation to the 2011 Glonass incident concluded. It was founded in early July 2013 and became public knowledge on the 01 August 2013. Their operations plan appears to have been written sometime in 2011-2012 and appears to have just now only gained Putins signature to begin its expedited execution. This is what I have gained from the various things that I have read and through my discussion via email with Mr. Zak.
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And there rolls the head of Popovkin. Somewhat belated...but still...
<cynical>Well, on to the next failure and the head-rolling of yet another Roscosmos top official</cynical>
Mr. Zak of RussianSpaceWeb.com tells me that more than one head will roll this time not just the top official.
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Here is another good one that speaks of the ORKK Creation plan from 03 July 2013: http://rbth.ru/science_and_tech/2013/07/03/rocket_failure_to_lead_to_space_industry_reform_27729.html
Cutting to the bone
“An industry reform is long overdue: It hasn’t just become urgent today, after this crash,” Alexander Zheleznyakov, a member of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics, told Vzglyad newspaper.
“Discussions of the crisis in the industry and the need for reform have been going on for two and a half years. … Unfortunately, with all the foot-dragging, we have another accident on our hands.”
“There are several ways to proceed with the reform,” said Zheleznyakov.
“One is to set up a state-owned corporation that would bring everything under one roof. Frankly, I’m not a fan of this option, because the customer will also be the contractor. Besides, the operations of such a corporation are less transparent than those of a government agency.”
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Here is another good one that speaks of the ORKK Creation plan from 03 July 2013: http://rbth.ru/science_and_tech/2013/07/03/rocket_failure_to_lead_to_space_industry_reform_27729.html
Cutting to the bone
“An industry reform is long overdue: It hasn’t just become urgent today, after this crash,” Alexander Zheleznyakov, a member of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics, told Vzglyad newspaper.
“Discussions of the crisis in the industry and the need for reform have been going on for two and a half years. … Unfortunately, with all the foot-dragging, we have another accident on our hands.”
“There are several ways to proceed with the reform,” said Zheleznyakov.
“One is to set up a state-owned corporation that would bring everything under one roof. Frankly, I’m not a fan of this option, because the customer will also be the contractor. Besides, the operations of such a corporation are less transparent than those of a government agency.”
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2313868 (In Russian)
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www.orkk.ru web domain has pending reservation status.
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Story is starting to make the major rounds
this one with many errors in it. http://news.yahoo.com/russian-pm-replaces-space-agency-chief-setbacks-141706793.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russian-pm-replaces-space-agency-chief-setbacks-141706793.html)
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Colonel-General Oleg Ostapenko is new head of Roscosmos.
October 10, 2013 at 3:21pm
Prime Minister Medvedev of the Russian Federation has today appointed Colonel-General Oleg Ostapenko as the new head of the Federal Space Agency, Roscosmos. (Source: Roscosmos, Order of the Government of the Russian Federation on October 10, 2013 № 1840-r.) He is Deputy Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation.
Image credit: Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation
Image credit: Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation
Colonel-General Oleg Ostapenko
Born on 3 May 1957 in the village of Pokoshichi (the Ukrainian SSR’s Chernigov Region).
In 1979 he graduated from the Military Academy named after F.E. Dzerzhinsky, in 1992 — from the Command Department of the same Academy, in 2007 — from the Military Academy of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces.
In 1979—1989, he served in various command and staff capacities in the Strategic Missile Forces (SMF).
In 1992–2002 — in the military units of the Main Trial Centre for Testing and Control of Space Means named after G.S. Titov as the chief military unit’s headquarters, commander of military unit, chief of test centre’s headquarters, chief of test centre.
In 2002–2004 — the Chief of Headquarters / First Deputy Chief of the Main Trial Centre for Testing and Control of Space Means.
In 2004–2007 — the First Deputy Chief of Staff of the Space Forces.
In 2007–2008 — the Chief of the State Test Cosmodrome Plesetsk.
From June 2008 to November 2011 — the Commander of the Space Forces.
From November 2011 — the Commander of the Aerospace Defence Forces.
By the RF Presidential Decree of 9 November 2012 he has been appointed the Deputy Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation.
Cand. Sc. (Military).
Personal decorations: the Order of Military Merit, the Medal of Combat Merit and other decorations.
- biography courtesy of Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation.
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It should be noted that this will be the third successive Roskosmos chief who previously had served as head of the Space Forces.
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It should be noted that this will be the third successive Roskosmos chief who previously had served as head of the Space Forces.
1st one however in charge of what looks like a nationalization of the industry.
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It should be noted that this will be the third successive Roskosmos chief who previously had served as head of the Space Forces.
1st one however in charge of what looks like a nationalization of the industry.
In many ways, the industry was always nationalized. What is different now is the plan to consolidate former competitors within a single "company". Basically, this would be similar to the Soviet practice of placing design bureaus and production facilities under a ministry, in theory. In practice, this muddies the water, since it is not clear if Roskosmos will continue to function as a customer, nor how the new consolidated company is going to operate.
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
believe that OAO Kuznetsov is part of the TsSKB-Progress group?
Absolutely not - they only share the same location Samara.
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
believe that OAO Kuznetsov is part of the TsSKB-Progress group?
Absolutely not - they only share the same location Samara.
I thin that Zvezda makes ejection seats for aircrafts, Makeyev designs ICBM, And I think that Kuznetsov supplies military turbines, in particular the ones on the TU-160. All seemed mor importnat as military suppliers than space. Please add some Russian perspective.
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So, RSC Energia, TsSKB-Progress, Khrunichev, Polyot, ISS Reshetnev, Lavochkin, NPO Energomash, KBKhA, KBKhM, etc. all will be made into one single company?
Who will they leave out? NPP Zvezda, Makeyev, OAO Kuznetsov?
Seems complete madness to me. The level of "temptation" for whoever handles the corporate affairs is terrible. When you have a big problem you divide it into small manageable ones, you don't mix them one in one big problem. Is like trying to mix and solve all equations simultaneously instead of solving each equation in series.
believe that OAO Kuznetsov is part of the TsSKB-Progress group?
Absolutely not - they only share the same location Samara.
I thin that Zvezda makes ejection seats for aircrafts, Makeyev designs ICBM, And I think that Kuznetsov supplies military turbines, in particular the ones on the TU-160. All seemed mor importnat as military suppliers than space. Please add some Russian perspective.
Kuznetsov also makes turbines for the Oil industry
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It should be noted that this will be the third successive Roskosmos chief who previously had served as head of the Space Forces.
1st one however in charge of what looks like a nationalization of the industry.
In many ways, the industry was always nationalized. What is different now is the plan to consolidate former competitors within a single "company". Basically, this would be similar to the Soviet practice of placing design bureaus and production facilities under a ministry, in theory. In practice, this muddies the water, since it is not clear if Roskosmos will continue to function as a customer, nor how the new consolidated company is going to operate.
or if tankage from one firm can be used in a different companies launcher.
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The weakness of Roskosmos has always been a lack of technical expertise to allow the agency to function as a lead integrator for national projects.
For example, Roskosmos should have been responsible for integration of the heavy lift launcher, or any Proton replacement - rather than issue periodic RFPs for individual companies to respond as integrators. Saturn V was the product of several companies, with NASA serving as the lead integrator, as was Shuttle, but Russia never adopted that approach.
If the new holding company is simply a pass-through for cash, then Russia will have missed this opportunity, as well.
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Congrats to Mr. Oleg Ostapenko on his new job. He'll be there for an year, at least.
Remember there's another Glonass-Proton/DM-3 launch scheduled in 2014, so if everything goes as planned, we'll have a new Roscosmos chief before 2015.
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You really should have used a smiley face.
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The weakness of Roskosmos has always been a lack of technical expertise to allow the agency to function as a lead integrator for national projects.
For example, Roskosmos should have been responsible for integration of the heavy lift launcher, or any Proton replacement - rather than issue periodic RFPs for individual companies to respond as integrators. Saturn V was the product of several companies, with NASA serving as the lead integrator, as was Shuttle, but Russia never adopted that approach.
If the new holding company is simply a pass-through for cash, then Russia will have missed this opportunity, as well.
Speaking of holding companies, wonder where ILS and Sea/Land Launch fit in this takeover?
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Nationalizing the space industry seems like such a backwards move. What are they thinking, that this will magically solve their problems?
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The weakness of Roskosmos has always been a lack of technical expertise to allow the agency to function as a lead integrator for national projects.
For example, Roskosmos should have been responsible for integration of the heavy lift launcher, or any Proton replacement - rather than issue periodic RFPs for individual companies to respond as integrators. Saturn V was the product of several companies, with NASA serving as the lead integrator, as was Shuttle, but Russia never adopted that approach.
If the new holding company is simply a pass-through for cash, then Russia will have missed this opportunity, as well.
Speaking of holding companies, wonder where ILS and Sea/Land Launch fit in this takeover?
They would be held indirectly via the Khrunichev and Energia holdings. But, yes this new corporation would have indirect control.
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Congrats to Mr. Oleg Ostapenko on his new job. He'll be there for an year, at least.
Remember there's another Glonass-Proton/DM-3 launch scheduled in 2014, so if everything goes as planned, we'll have a new Roscosmos chief before 2015.
But if the new ORKK company is formed prior to the launch, the CEO of the ORKK can be fired so that the Roskosmos chief can stay in power.
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In an article published on 11 October the Izvestiya newspaper quoted its sources as saying the sole reason for Popovkin's departure was his medical condition. He is to undergo lengthy medical treatment abroad and was "physically incapable" of staying on the job.
http://izvestia.ru/news/558641
Several days before that the government newspaper "Rossiyskaya gazeta" reported that Popovkin had undergone eye surgery on several occasions and that the stress caused by last July's Proton failure had only exacerbated the problems with his eyesight. The newspaper says he was hospitalized after the accident and "nearly turned blind".
http://www.rg.ru/2013/10/07/popovkin-site.html
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a couple of weeks ago, I was bemoaning the fact that Roskosmos does not have the technical expertise to serve as prime integrator for large space projects, which means that the various contractors have historically always jockeyed to get the role of prime integrator, which mixed results.
ORKK might be in a position to serve as prime integrator for large projects IF the company is provided the technical staff to serve that function. The question would also be the role of TsNIIMASH in regards to the new company.
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http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/37758russias-industry-consolidation-plan-aims-to-reduce-reliance-on-imports
“Our main problem is the supply of components,” Rogozin told Putin, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin website. “In order for us to be independent of their imports — and we understand that ... certain countries use their export controls, basically, to prevent us from buying all we need — this system will allow us to concentrate the funds and research on creating our own production of these components.”
The consolidation is not expected to affect Russia’s large prime contractors, such as the Khrunichev Space Center, RSC Energia, TsSKB Progress and Lavochkin, according to Yury Karash, a space industry expert in Moscow.
Imports account for 75 percent of parts used in building satellites, according to Dmitry Payson, development director of the space research center at Skolkovo Foundation, a think tank here.
Looking for context on this quote...when they say "imports" are they primarily referring to imports from former Soviet republics (eg, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc), or from European or American vendors? Was that a shot at ITAR--does that really have any effect on Russian designs? Or a shot at the Russian satellite countries?
Are these quotes directed toward satellites and away from launch vehicles (ie, not targeting Ukrainian LV builders, but perhaps western components like processors and semiconductor-based "stuff")?
If it's referring to American and European vendors, I find that 75 percent figure astonishing.
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http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/37758russias-industry-consolidation-plan-aims-to-reduce-reliance-on-imports (http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/37758russias-industry-consolidation-plan-aims-to-reduce-reliance-on-imports)
“Our main problem is the supply of components,” Rogozin told Putin, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin website. “In order for us to be independent of their imports — and we understand that ... certain countries use their export controls, basically, to prevent us from buying all we need — this system will allow us to concentrate the funds and research on creating our own production of these components.”
The consolidation is not expected to affect Russia’s large prime contractors, such as the Khrunichev Space Center, RSC Energia, TsSKB Progress and Lavochkin, according to Yury Karash, a space industry expert in Moscow.
Imports account for 75 percent of parts used in building satellites, according to Dmitry Payson, development director of the space research center at Skolkovo Foundation, a think tank here.
Looking for context on this quote...when they say "imports" are they primarily referring to imports from former Soviet republics (eg, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc), or from European or American vendors? Was that a shot at ITAR--does that really have any effect on Russian designs? Or a shot at the Russian satellite countries?
Are these quotes directed toward satellites and away from launch vehicles (ie, not targeting Ukrainian LV builders, but perhaps western components like processors and semiconductor-based "stuff")?
If it's referring to American and European vendors, I find that 75 percent figure astonishing.
"75 percent of parts used in building satellites", not launchers. But Putin wishes some type of group of countries under Russia. Trade is being used as a weapon.
This action should be sending red flags all over the world.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-15/putin-builds-north-korea-rail-to-circumvent-suez-canal.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-15/putin-builds-north-korea-rail-to-circumvent-suez-canal.html)
"North Korea is under United Nations sanctions for its atomic program"
http://glblgeopolitics.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/putin-builds-north-korea-rail-to-circumvent-suez-canal/ (http://glblgeopolitics.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/putin-builds-north-korea-rail-to-circumvent-suez-canal/)
The question becomes: why are funds for this rail being spent? We all hear about the problems for large transport via Russian rail due to tunnels etc. Why is the money being spent on this project and not upgrades for the new spaceport?