NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Indian Launchers => Topic started by: docmordrid on 01/16/2012 01:22 pm
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AsianScientist reports a fast ramp up to 2013 -
http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/isro-indian-mission-to-mars-red-planet-2013/
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"scientists from various ISRO centers and the PRL are extremely enthusiastic about the flight to the Red Planet"
I am sure they are. I wonder if the government is similarly excited.
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Hope they will be more successful than the Russian Fobos-Grunt.
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It looks like India is simply trying to do what the Chinese have aready announced they are planning.
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I think India should do what it has already planned well & speed up its existing programs, instead of spreading itself too thin.
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It looks like India is simply trying to do what the Chinese have aready announced they are planning.
I don't understand the purpose of your comment. Are you claiming that anybody who announces a mission to Mars is merely trying to ape China or the US?
Unfortunately, the Chinese Yinghuo-1 probe was lost with the failure of the Russian Phobos-Grunt mission. I haven't heard of any plans to replace it, although I'm sure China would re-attempt a Mars mission at some point.
There are still plenty of aspects of Mars to be studied, and it's a little too early to claim anybody is copycatting anyone else.
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I've just read that unfortunately, NASA may be about to cut back on a lot of Mars-related exploration, due to budget cuts:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/02/10/mars-lost-nasa-cutting-mission-to-red-planet/
Here's where it would be nice for an ISRO Mars mission to take up some of the slack and even offer opportunities for NASA instrument payloads, among others, to be included onboard. As long as the greater cause of advancing human knowledge is fulfilled, then that's what should count most.
Meanwhile, India's first astronaut, Rakesh Sharma expresses hope that India will follow through on its plans for a Mars mission:
http://www.asianscientist.com/features/first-indian-in-space-rakesh-sharma-suryadatta-national-lifetime-award-for-1984-flight/
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It looks like India is simply trying to do what the Chinese have aready announced they are planning.
I don't understand the purpose of your comment. Are you claiming that anybody who announces a mission to Mars is merely trying to ape China or the US?
Unfortunately, the Chinese Yinghuo-1 probe was lost with the failure of the Russian Phobos-Grunt mission. I haven't heard of any plans to replace it, although I'm sure China would re-attempt a Mars mission at some point.
There are still plenty of aspects of Mars to be studied, and it's a little too early to claim anybody is copycatting anyone else.
If you look at the Chinese section on here you will see that the Chinese are working on a programme for exploring Mars which was detailed before India announced its plans.
Historically, you will see that India did not announce it own manned space programme until the Chinese had one.
Similarly, the Indian lunar exploration programme was not announced until after the Chinese had given details of the three-step Chang'e programme.
So, with these three programmes you will see that India's plans come after China has already announced its programme, certainly giving the appearance that India is simply reacting to what the Chinese announce what they plan to do.
Of course, I am not saying that India should not do these things, simply suggesting a "cause-and-effect" here.
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As an Indian and a space enthusiast, I regularly participate in online discussions with fellow Indians about space exploration. I also participate in Indian science-fiction writing forums. None of our enthusiasm revolves around somehow merely keeping up with the Chinese. As you may be aware, Indian society has long been fascinated by the heavens, and Indian culture is steeped in things like astrology. ISRO was founded in 1969, and even well before that, India's Prime Minister Nehru had a vision of Indians pursuing higher scientific endeavors for the benefit of Indian development.
Indians are not interested in a space race with the Chinese, or in merely copycatting them. Space is a higher-level pursuit which can advance human knowledge as a whole. There are always plenty of ideas bubbling at ISRO for more missions into space. For instance, the Aditya mission will be for studying solar weather and its effects on our Earth. The Megha-Tropiques mission was for studying tropical weather phenomena and their effect on the climate. The Astrosat mission will be for studying various cosmic radiation sources, including X-ray emissions.
I think it's really myopic to think that Indians are always looking out for what the Chinese are doing, and merely trying to emulate them. Indians have their own genuine heartfelt desire to explore space, independent of what anyone else happens to be doing.
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@sanman
I think it is naive to think that all the space investment, by any government, is due to the "higher minded" pursuit of knowledge. It is all about the higher ground, in the conflict sense. The government will pander to space investment as it has far more value in military apps than it does for civilians. The scientists a d engineers maybe "higher" minded but they are just deluding themselves if they think their product is anything but a tool for sharpening the army's claws.
p.s. the politicians can dress it up how they want and I frankly don't care. It is what it is and I am grateful for the fringe benefits, i.e. the science.
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Personally, I don't see how missions to Mars, or even manned spaceflight are strategically advantageous or provide higher military ground. If anything, they are a significant consumption of resources that could otherwise be devoted to other activities, military or otherwise.
What I do know is that Indian scientists have been seeking a mission to Mars for a long time, just as they had been seeking a lunar mission for a long time. People genuinely don't pay attention to what other countries are doing, especially those in Asia. At least NASA's missions are more widely noticed, since they're at the forefront. But nobody noticed Yinghuo-1, especially since it was piggybacked on a Russian spacecraft. China doesn't widely publicize or discuss its missions internationally anyway, so it's hard for the public to be aware of what they do.
When India does a farther-reaching mission, such as to the Moon, Mars, etc, it tends to be more widely noticed and discussed internationally, since we Indians are part of the Anglosphere and there isn't a language barrier for wider discussion. Also, Indian missions tend to have a more multi-national contribution, in terms of foreign payloads and instrument packages. Personally, I think this qualitatively helps the scientific end result.
Nations have to promote their scientific and technical prowess, and provide their people with opportunities in science and technology, in order to hang onto talent. Simply sitting around and watching everybody else go out into space isn't enough. India's space program is thus developing according to its own natural progression, and isn't determined by what others happen to be doing. There is a homegrown desire to go into space - a desire that is innate.
If you look at the rather large number of NASA personnel who are of ethnic Indian origin, they didn't all join because they heard about Chinese working there.
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I'm afraid I cannot agree with you sanman and also, we are talking past each other to some degree.
Anyway, though slightly OT, will they use GSLV MkII for the mission or the PSLV in its heaviest lifting capacity?
Even more OT, are they seriously going for a MkIII launch at the end of this/beginning of the next year? Will it be the full article or a flight with just the 1st and 2nd stages?
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Go for it India!
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I'd originally read that the maiden flight of GSLV-Mk3 would be without the Cryogenic Upper Stage. But another article I read recently said that the CUS had been qualified for the maiden flight, and some weeks back a friend said that it was undergoing integration testing. So I'm not entirely sure, but I too am keeping an eye out for further mention of it in the news.
Meanwhile, Prof U R Rao at PRL compares India's space program to China, saying that China is much ahead of India. Dr Goswami affirms that India is capable of reaching Mars:
http://www.asianscientist.com/features/india-mars-mission-isro-prl-2012/
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Govt allocates 100 Crore for Mars mission - possible launch window in 2013:
http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=755911
http://zeenews.india.com/news/space/isro-get-rs-125-crore-for-mars-mission_764214.html
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Indian Chapter of Mars Society Launched in Mumbai
http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/mars-society-india-launched-today-nehru-center-2012/
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/article3003109.ece
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/12300619.cms
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mission-success-for-space-institutions/240059-60-123.html
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http://www.asianscientist.com/topnews/india-mars-mission-union-budget-increase-to-rs-125-crore-2012/
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Mars mission: Rs125cr allocation delights Isro (http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/report_mars-mission-rs125cr-allocation-delights-isro_1664266)
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^^ from the asian scientist article linked above, the instrumentation payload is 25kg, this looks to be too tiny. It maybe better to wait for GSLV to carry a more meaningfull instrumentation package, even if it means slipping to 2016 launch window.
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^^ from the asian scientist article linked above, the instrumentation payload is 25kg, this looks to be too tiny. It maybe better to wait for GSLV to carry a more meaningfull instrumentation package, even if it means slipping to 2016 launch window.
Depends what the payload is intended to do.
The challenge for any Mars orbiter proposal these days is to do something new, so many aspects have been already covered. Improved gravity or magnetic data, a lidar with better resolution, radiation measurments, perhaps. All these measurments would be useful and some would probably fit inside the 25 kg limit.
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^^ from the asian scientist article linked above, the instrumentation payload is 25kg, this looks to be too tiny. It maybe better to wait for GSLV to carry a more meaningfull instrumentation package, even if it means slipping to 2016 launch window.
Well, it's unlikely that the Mark-III will be ready for 2013, as its first flight test will be happening around that time, sans Cryogenic Upper Stage.
The Viking landers were launched using a Titan+Centaur combination, I believe, and I don't know how favorably the Mark-III with CUS compares to that.
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http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/india-looks-toward-mars/
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2012/03/26/06.xml
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^^ from the asian scientist article linked above, the instrumentation payload is 25kg, this looks to be too tiny. It maybe better to wait for GSLV to carry a more meaningfull instrumentation package, even if it means slipping to 2016 launch window.
Well, it's unlikely that the Mark-III will be ready for 2013, as its first flight test will be happening around that time, sans Cryogenic Upper Stage.
The Viking landers were launched using a Titan+Centaur combination, I believe, and I don't know how favorably the Mark-III with CUS compares to that.
Even GSLV Mk I / II would significantly improve the throw weight to Mars orbit. This is an orbiter mission, it should not be compared with Viking which was a lander mission.
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Even GSLV Mk I / II would significantly improve the throw weight to Mars orbit. This is an orbiter mission, it should not be compared with Viking which was a lander mission.
You make a good point. GSLV Mark-II would significantly improve the payload weight to Mars. Yes, I know the mission is only for an orbiter vs the landers sent for Viking. My point was that India could have tried for a lander mission if they delayed the launch date. Oh well, maybe that can be done on a following Mars mission.
http://kuku.sawf.org/Articles/68485.aspx
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_29/70024799/
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MangalYaan (MARS Orbiter Mission - MOM):
http://www.issdc.gov.in/mangalyaan.html
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India plans to launch, in 2013, its maiden mission to Mars. Called Mangalyaan, it will be an unmanned orbiting mission to study the atmosphere of the Red Planet.
http://profit.ndtv.com/news/economy/article-isro-launches-100th-mission-prime-minister-witnesses-historic-event-310529
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Mars mission aimed at scientific development, not space war: ISRO
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/article3877463.ece