NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: ah_mini on 07/11/2011 07:53 pm
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Hope this hasn't been posted before, I did a quick search of the forums but didn't find anything.
Western HSF seems to be at the end of the road for a good while at least with the demise of the Shuttle, but I happened upon a fun little indie game that had me creating those finest 20th century "space pioneer" events!
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/
It's in early development so there are a few glitches (and don't expect ultimate realism, although there is some physics in there). However it's free, not to mention pretty funny and mildly satisfying to get your ramshackle creations into orbit. It's kept me amused during quieter NASA TV moments anyway :)
PS: I'm not associated with the developers of this game at all, and hope this isn't viewed as spam. Just thought others would like to give it a shot.
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It's only spam if you're Chinese and posting about cheap Nike shoes ;D
But the thread title was naff ;)
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It's only spam if you're Chinese and posting about cheap Nike shoes ;D
But the thread title was naff ;)
Well yes it was a terrible thread title, but added an air of mystery ;)
Most of my launch efforts on this thing have resembled the early Atlas programme so far. I'm hoping for improvements!
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I haven't played it yet, but this youtube video of it looks really cool. Huzzah for rockets like Lego pieces!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY9P2iY6pTo
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I have been playing it for a day or so quite intensively now, so I'll just give my review:
The people behind it are cool and are very open to modding and implementing your own stuff ( for example lets say a realistic delta core ) so there is the possibility that this could be something really nice. So far it is for fun only, but I can imagine a realistic mod, and then you can show someone why the shuttle cant fly to the moon ;D - although there might be more problems of people who just want to paste whatever together and think it'll work - in this game it might.
I am having fun, but dont forget this is a very very early pre alpha, but I hope it grows.
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I already play Minecraft so this is looking real good for a crazed rocket Fan!! Will be downloaded tonight at home.
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I played this last night for a while and it does verify (using the scientific method :P ) that lego rockets are not easy to launch.
I think my highest flight was 50km. Everything else I did blew up or ran in circles and THEN blew up.
Lots of potential there and I'll keep playing until I can build a DIRECT launcher of my own! :)
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I played this last night for a while and it does verify (using the scientific method :P ) that lego rockets are not easy to launch.
I think my highest flight was 50km. Everything else I did blew up or ran in circles and THEN blew up.
A few hints for this game:
- A simple two stage liquid rocket will get you to orbit (with margin).
- Aerodynamic drag is absurd and the atmosphere ends at ~35km, so a lofted trajectory is mandatory to get to orbit.
- Solid rockets aren't very practical (see the following videos)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8WnIbJC4BM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjtEclzv22c
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Thanks for the tips! My best attempt was with a 2 stage liquid. Three stage is too heavy without solids which I cannot seem to get aligned properly.
A 30km deep atmosphere is absurd. I hope they will change this.
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Lots of potential there and I'll keep playing until I can build a DIRECT launcher of my own! :)
I made one, see attachments. Meant to be a DIRECT Jupiter - 120.
Sadly there are no things like payload fairings (yet), otherwise i would be able to move the orion stage inside as it should be, but it has all the correct stages and such.
Thanks for the tips! My best attempt was with a 2 stage liquid. Three stage is too heavy without solids which I cannot seem to get aligned properly.
A 30km deep atmosphere is absurd. I hope they will change this.
Do note that the game is not meant to be too serious and is not meant to be earth like - it is not a simulator, but a game. But since it is very moddable I am sure there will be realistic mods made, with a longer atmosphere and more powerfull rockets and the like.
In the standard version, you can achieve orbit at 30 km height with a speed of around 2300-2500 m/s. Still takes some skill, but with SAS your rockets will be stable at the start at least.
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Just as an example, these two rockets will happily make it to a stable 50x50km orbit. The smaller should have enough prop left for deorbit whereas the larger should still have a near-full upper stage with enough delta-v to get well beyond escape velocity.
Edit: If you lengthen the 1st stage tanks of the bigger rocket, you can get to orbit with fuel still in the 2nd stage and a completely full 3rd stage(!!!)
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Ok, nice job guys. I can see my mistake was thinking that Earth velocities and altitudes were inforce here. With 50km orbit as a possibility I can probably work it out.
Didn't know you could stack fuel tanks either. I guess those instructions are calling my name.
Was that SD launcher tank made as a mod???
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This is a fantastic game!!! I love it! Thanks for sharing. It's addictive.
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Having fun with this, although every thing I design just spins wildly out of control :-\
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To everyone here: add one or a few SAS modules and hold f / press T to toggle to keep your rocket unable to steer, but atleast moderatly stable. Took a while to figure out, but after that I got to recreating DIRECT launchers, or even the stick, not to mention the insane "hey why not bolt 12 SRBs together" ideas ;D
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Good to see people are having fun with this game :)
As some have already stated "Planet Kerbal" is not the same as Earth (it's way smaller, plus the atmosphere modelling is different).
I've got a few ships into orbit now and the thing that really strikes me about this game is that it's not entirely realistic (dedicated sim nuts will be disappointed), yet good enough to teach the basics of how rockets function. On other forums that I post on, many members learn very quickly about things like gravity losses, why you can't just fly straight up and expect to get into orbit, etc. Lots of young people are also really hooked which is only a good thing as far as interest in science and engineering goes.
Also, anyone notice that nothing fazes Jebediah Kerman whilst Bob and Bill seem to look permanently worried/terrified? Seems ol' Jeb is destined to become something of an Internet phenomenon as a result ;D
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Great fun, although i have no idea how to insert into orbit. I have been over 1350000 meters up and have reached about 3000 m/s, but I have no idea what all that means!
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You can get into orbit at 50km and maybe 1500km/s speed. Just start pitching over at 20km or so and let her run. At least that's how I do it.
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Thanks for the reply. Well, I have achieved orbit. Well sort of. If you call a an elliptical orbit (I used to own ellipiticalorbit.com by the way! LOL!) from as high as 850000km to a low of 65000km an orbit.
All three plankton aboard are happy & healthy but there are some scary moments when we get close to Kerbal.
Made the 3 revolutions so far and now I have to get back to work!
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Is there a dummies guide to rocket engineering so I can actually get something into orbit ?
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Is there a dummies guide to rocket engineering so I can actually get something into orbit ?
A guide to this particular universe and rockets, yes.
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php)
try the general discussion or the How to. Quite a few videos on baseline designs, and then you can play with those.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvVjysJKB4
Might search for those on youtube aswell, something along the line "orbit kerbal space" should suffice.
Other then that, play around :)
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The odd-ball orbit held and we were orbiting Kerbal for nearly 8 hours before I realized that there was no way to bring the little fellas home. Now I am going to try and configure a ship that is a little more precise in pitch and see if I can get a better insertion and use the engine to slow it up and actually "slash" down near the launch complex.
This is fun... it's a damn shame I so busy!
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bump, lots of cool mods out there now, still a blast to play :)
Im having trouble stablizing my orbits from insane elipiticals
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I enjoy it. I have tried interplanetary travel, however it seems there is nothing out there!
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So no one's made an Orion nuke pulse module yet?
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Anyone still playing?
They now have a moon (or, in this world a "Mun") orbiting the planet, making the game a whole lot more interesting. So far I'm able to reach the Mun, orbit it and land, but have yet to figure out a way to bring my crew back safely. But it's a ton of fun!
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I wanted to bump this because there have been a bunch of updates and the game is looking really great now.
It is still a huge amount of fun. Especially smearing your Kerbals all over the Mun :)
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Also apparently this was made by somebody from the forum for the game Orbiter, which is also great.
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I just found this game... Wow, lots of fun! :)
I only have the free version (but will buy the better in a few days) - But I was able to build a 3-stage rocket (solid, liquid, liquid) where I was able to land the 3rd stage on the moon, using fins as landing legs.
Unfortunately I used up too much fuel to get there, so I was not able to lift off completely from the lunar surface. I ran out of fuel and impacted the lunar surface. :D
Playing around with orbits is fun - this is a very educational game. My 8yr old son and I are having a LOT of fun with it.
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Is "Kerbal Space Program" free to download? ???
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Yep, version 0.13 is free. You have to pay or donate to get access to newer versions with more parts and features.
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Yep, version 0.13 is free. You have to pay or donate to get access to newer versions with more parts and features.
Okay, no problem. Thank you sir. ;)
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I'm using the free version of the game, it's fun and maybe its educational. I made this same post over in the Q&A forum, here,
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29180.msg917835#msg917835 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29180.msg917835#msg917835)
I am posting it on this thread because I suspect you might be interested in the answer and have your own answer for me, too.
Given a two stage rocket with identical engines, and 3 identical tanks of fuel, will I get more payload with 1 tank of fuel on the first stage, and two tanks on the second, or will it be better the other way around, ie. two tanks on the first stage and one on the second?
I've always ass.u.me.d that I should put the bulk of the fuel in the first stage, but now I'm wondering about that. I've been playing this game,
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=25943.0
and the game rockets work the other way. That is,
One tank second stage over a two tank first stage gives 164.2 km altitude
Two tank second stage over a one tank first stage gives 228.0 km altitude
I get a similar result when I configure 5 tanks ratioed 2/3 and 3/2, but I have to use boosters to get it off the launch pad. Oh, and all these launches were straight up, like sounding rockets.
So my question is, "Does this game reflect physics as it is known, or what?"
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So my question is, "Does this game reflect physics as it is known, or what?"
Yes and no. One thing to remember; the planet, atmosphere and tech as modelled are not correct with regard to the real world. So, no. They all work correctly:
Decouplers are too heavy; staging is not worth it unless you absolutely have to.
Building a single engine with 3 tanks on top of it and then the command pod without staging will get you further then either option. Into orbit even, on previous versions.
Modding in lighter decouplers, and a more realistic fuel tank dry mass combined with realistic engine weight/thrust levels will make it better.
See it as a very rough approximation...
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Thank you sir. ;D version 0.13 is free.
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Broadening the subject a little, has anyone here played or worked with the NASA General Mission Analysis Tool (GMAT)? It is free to download and has high fidelity physics and atmosphere, including gravity models for the whole solar system. Read about and download it here.
http://gmat.gsfc.nasa.gov/ (http://gmat.gsfc.nasa.gov/)
The problem I have with GMAT is that I can't effectively model a finite burn spacecraft. Impulsive models work fine but that is not so much fun.
In order to use the full features of GMAT, MATLAB is required but GMAT does function without it.
It would make a nice fun game if GMAT could be used for the physics of this Kerbal space game, and even perhaps replacing MATLAB with MAXIMA, which is a GPL program that runs MATLAB code. More information here:
http://maxima.sourceforge.net/ (http://maxima.sourceforge.net/)
I would find it very interesting if such program supported the modeling and exercising real world rockets for real world missions (GMAT already supports real world missions).
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I downloaded GMAT once upon a time, played with it for hours.. did all the tutorials, etc. Came back a week later and couldn't remember how to do anything with it. User interface design, not invented here.
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I downloaded GMAT once upon a time, played with it for hours.. did all the tutorials, etc. Came back a week later and couldn't remember how to do anything with it. User interface design, not invented here.
The user interface is OK now for what it does, they have a GUI. It is still challenging and limited for anything other than the basic mission profiles. Basic profiles applicable to existing real world capabilities with little stretch beyond that. The Kerbal game interface is much more captivating.
Don't want to knock GMAT to hard though. It has a lot of mathematical power directed at the missions it does accomplish, and could conceptually do anything in space that can be imagined. Relating what can be imagined to existing or conceptual rockets is the problem. I guess GMAT is built for use in discovering mission requirements, then the rocket engineers are expected to go build the rocket. I would like to build a rocket (model a rocket) then see what it can do. That is where the Kerbal game excels. But of course, the game world has little relationship to physical reality.
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The problem I have with GMAT is that I can't effectively model a finite burn spacecraft. Impulsive models work fine but that is not so much fun.
aero, what problems are you having with finite burns in GMAT? Maybe we could take this to another topic :)
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Been playing the free version, great game! Will buy it soon.
I was able to land on the moon with a 3 stage rocket and had enough fuel to get back home. And still some left to decrease speed, although version 0.13 does not simulate atmospheric reentry burn.
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0.17 is out for anybody interested.
Added: Scenarios, better construction, and a shedload of new planets and moons to visit!