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International Space Station (ISS) => ISS Section => Topic started by: PeterAlt on 12/01/2010 05:03 AM

Title: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: PeterAlt on 12/01/2010 05:03 AM
Haven't heard anything lately about planned Russian Modules, specifically the MLM. Does anyone know if it's still on target for late next 2011-early 2012? I checked russianspaceweb.com and no updates on MLM for the last couple of years, but the Node Module section was recently updated with a projected launch date of 2013.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: cd-slam on 12/01/2010 11:20 AM
anik's plan of Russian launch schedule in the Russian section has it pencilled in for August 2012. I'd take that date with a huge grain of salt, though.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 12/16/2010 10:15 AM
Last month the MLM launch was reported to have slipped from May to August 2012. Last Monday RKK Energiya chief Vitaliy Lopota was quoted as saying that while "everything is OK with financing" there were problems with "production resources" at the Khrunichev Center, whatever that may mean. He added that the Russian segment is still expected to be completed in 2015.

Yesterday Interfax quoted an unidentified source in the Russian space industry as saying that the Node Module is still on track for launch in 2013. The source confirmed earlier speculation that after the end of ISS operations the Node Module may become the hub of a new Russian space station (sometimes referred to as OPSEK). For that reason it is being built for a service life of "at least 30 years". 

The Node Module will be launched with a Soyuz-2B booster from Baikonur and will be towed to the station by a detachable service module (like Pirs and Poisk). It will have six docking ports, four lateral and two axial. The front axial port will be used to dock with MLM. The two "Science Energy Modules" (a pair of solar arrays for the Russian segment) will first dock with the aft axial port of the Node Module and then be transferred to two of the lateral ports with a special manipulator arm. The aft axial port will also be used to receive Soyuz and Progress vehicles. The source quoted by Interfax also said that one of the ports can eventually be turned from an active into a passive docking port "so that it can also receive transport ships". Presumably, this will become the new role of the front axial port once it becomes part of the new Russian space station.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 12/17/2010 03:15 PM
Any standard probe and cone docking system can be converted from male to female or vice versa simply by switching out the specific male/female docking hardware. Same with the hybrid system. This switchout must be done while the vehicle is docked, so that there is atmosphere on both sides of the docking adapter. If the docking system is exposed to space, the switchout requires a pressure dome to be fitted over the adapter (never been done, although a pressure dome was developed for FGB).

Also, an APAS-89 or later can be converted to hybrid by switching out the docking petals for a probe or cone.

What requires magic is conversion or mating of a standard probe and cone system to hybrid or APAS.  Apparently, Energia has performed  8) invoking magic to allow the MLM and Node modules to dock.

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Lobo on 03/01/2011 05:47 PM
Haven't they been delaying this this for like the past 8 years or something?  Will this last Russian segment ever actually be finished and launched?  Or is it destined for final cancellation at some time in the near future?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 03/01/2011 06:35 PM
Current scheduled launch is ~August 2012.

Doubt it will be cancelled, as Roscosmos recently approved the Node Module, which is dependant upon the MLM.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Lobo on 03/01/2011 07:08 PM
Current scheduled launch is ~August 2012.

Doubt it will be cancelled, as Roscosmos recently approved the Node Module, which is dependant upon the MLM.

Yea, I know it's "currently" scheduled for 2012.  But it's been "currently" schedule for a few years from whatever the date today is for several years.  At one time I think it was scheduled for like 2003 or 2004.   At least an earlier version if it was.IN fact, I think there were 2 of them at one point, then down to one.  Just seems it's just "just a couple years away" for many years now.  Perpetually just around the corner.  So I just didn't know if the Russians were every going to get it finished and up, or if they were just going to dick around with it forever. 

Anyway, if there's another component that's dependant on this one, then yea, that would seem to indicate the Russians aren't just stalling in perpetuity, and will actually get it up at some point.  Hopefully. ;-)

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Stan Black on 03/01/2011 07:23 PM
I get the impression from
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=8081
that they are trying to remove all items manufacture in the Ukraine.

A Proton rocket has been manufactured and paid for
http://www.rosspending.ru/fk/contract/0025907000259/?year=2007
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Lobo on 03/01/2011 09:13 PM
I get the impression from
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=8081
that they are trying to remove all items manufacture in the Ukraine.

A Proton rocket has been manufactured and paid for
http://www.rosspending.ru/fk/contract/0025907000259/?year=2007

I'll have to take your word for it as I can't read Russian.  :-)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: aquarius on 03/06/2011 06:22 PM
Current scheduled launch is ~August 2012.



Actually, it's December 2012.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: JayP on 03/06/2011 09:03 PM
I get the impression from
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=8081
that they are trying to remove all items manufacture in the Ukraine.

A Proton rocket has been manufactured and paid for
http://www.rosspending.ru/fk/contract/0025907000259/?year=2007

I'll have to take your word for it as I can't read Russian.  :-)
The "English" button at the top of the page seems to work. ;)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/07/2011 12:17 AM
Since the MLM will be providing backup attitude control, it almost seems essential for the long term for the module to fly.  So while the schedule could conceivably stretch out further to the right as it has in the past, it is needed for long term utilization for both the Russian segment and the USOS.

Edit: Not to mention that parts of the MLM are already on orbit (radiator, ERA spare elbow on the MRM-1)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 03/13/2011 07:53 PM
New Russian Module for the ISS to be Launched in 2012 – Roscosmos Head.
14.03.2011

New Russian lab module for the International Space Station is to be launched in 2012, Roscosmos Head Anatoly Perminov told news media.
"We are in process preparing new Russian lab module for launch in 2012", Perminov stated.

http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=11529&lang=en
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 04/04/2011 07:35 PM
Multipurpose laboratory module to be launched to ISS as scheduled.

The launch of the multipurpose laboratory module to the International Space Station (ISS) has not been postponed, Rocket and Space Corporation Energia chief Vitaly Lopota said.

He said the success of this work would largely depend on the Khrunichev Space Centre.

The module is scheduled to be launched in 2012.

Asked if any changes have been made in the launch schedule, Lopota said on Monday, April 4, “Everything is going as scheduled. The rocket and space corporation has done everything it could.”

“Khrunichev is making the module’s body. Energia will fill it with equipment at the next stage,” Lopota said. “Much depends on how Khrunichev organises it work.”

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=16116792&PageNum=0
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 04/11/2011 01:51 AM
Also, see the Space Policy Discussion section. There is a thread with news that Russia has approved a doubling of their space program budget for the next fiscal year. I would assume that this would be more than enough to get all of their planned modules built and launched, as well as their planned communications satellites.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jim on 04/11/2011 01:54 AM
Also, see the Space Policy Discussion section. There is a thread with news that Russia has approved a doubling of their space program budget for the next fiscal year. I would assume that this would be more than enough to get all of their planned modules built and launched, as well as their planned communications satellites.

No, you can't believe everything you hear about the Russian space program.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 04/11/2011 03:22 AM
Also, see the Space Policy Discussion section. There is a thread with news that Russia has approved a doubling of their space program budget for the next fiscal year. I would assume that this would be more than enough to get all of their planned modules built and launched, as well as their planned communications satellites.

Following up on what Jim was stating, from what I can tell, Putin said something like: "we really should spend some money on space, some day." I believe that the doubled budget referred to the last 2 years, where the money was indeed twice the prior budget.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: eeergo on 04/30/2011 05:02 PM
Cool video about the current status of Nauka, including interior views:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dhRQx1jMIM

It appears there's a second FGB-derived pressure vessel apart from the one used for MLM. Is that just a non-flight-worthy mockup or a backup (my Russian isn't nearly good enough to pick it up from the commentary)? In case it's a backup, I thought MLM was already the backup of Zarya on its day?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: aquarius on 04/30/2011 05:54 PM
Cool video about the current status of Nauka, including interior views:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dhRQx1jMIM

It appears there's a second FGB-derived pressure vessel apart from the one used for MLM. Is that just a non-flight-worthy mockup or a backup (my Russian isn't nearly good enough to pick it up from the commentary)? In case it's a backup, I thought MLM was already the backup of Zarya on its day?

The second one is a mockup for tests.

BTW, the commentator says MLM will have CQ for a third Russian crew member, so no more sleeping in Node 2 for the Russians.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 04/30/2011 06:47 PM
The 2nd article was described as a structural dynamic test article.

From the video, it looks like little work has been done on the MLM in the last few years, and that Khrunichev put together a work team to be hanging around when the video crew was scheduled to film. I suspect that those people went back to building Protons the next day.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 04/30/2011 08:06 PM
BTW, the commentator says MLM will have CQ for a third Russian crew member, so no more sleeping in Node 2 for the Russians.

Yup - which will in turn allow a 4th USOS crewmember (7th ISS crewmember) to be present on ISS once the commercial vehicles come online with their extra seats. More crew time for science! :)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Robotbeat on 05/01/2011 12:36 AM
BTW, the commentator says MLM will have CQ for a third Russian crew member, so no more sleeping in Node 2 for the Russians.

Yup - which will in turn allow a 4th USOS crewmember (7th ISS crewmember) to be present on ISS once the commercial vehicles come online with their extra seats. More crew time for science! :)
:)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 08/10/2011 04:50 AM
http://ria.ru/science/20110804/411931746.html

This article describes RSC Energia testing the electrical system of the MLM. I don't know if this means that the MLM has been moved to Korolyev, or if RSC Energia technicians have been working in Fili.

One of the NK forum readers suggested that Energia is actually testing the components on its ISS Russian segment analog, located at the factory, since there is an FGB electrical mechanical unit there. I am not sure that Energia really has an analog of the entire Russian segment there, but they do have at least one FGB bus electrical mechanical test unit, a Kvant 2 which could stand in for MLM in a pinch.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Olaf on 08/10/2011 02:51 PM
May be this is a better thread
Quote
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#tests

In August 2011, the Director General of GKNPTs Khrunichev, Vladimir Nesterov, said that a prototype of the MLM module designed for electrical tests would be delivered to RKK Energia before the end of the month, despite technical issues associated with changes in design documentation.

Are these good news or bad news?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 08/10/2011 03:15 PM
May be this is a better thread
Quote
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#tests

In August 2011, the Director General of GKNPTs Khrunichev, Vladimir Nesterov, said that a prototype of the MLM module designed for electrical tests would be delivered to RKK Energia before the end of the month, despite technical issues associated with changes in design documentation.

Are these good news or bad news?

This means that Khrunichev will provide an electrical mechanical article for Energia to test, not the actual MLM. Moving the MLM to Energia would indicate that launch was to happen within 18 months.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Olaf on 08/10/2011 03:42 PM
Moving the MLM to Energia would indicate that launch was to happen within 18 months.
That means, if the delivering is NET April 2012, as reported on the NK forum, the launch will be NET December 2013.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 08/10/2011 03:47 PM
Moving the MLM to Energia would indicate that launch was to happen within 18 months.
That means, if the delivering is NET April 2012, as reported on the NK forum, the launch will be NET December 2013.

Energia's schedule could be compressed, 18 months is a maximum, not a minimum.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 10/20/2011 09:06 PM
Roscosmos have released a tender for a contract to finish MLM and launch it to the ISS.

Very odd - has there been no contract until now, or has the previous contract been cancelled?

--------------------

(Below translated using Google translate.)

Open tenders for state contracts

"Create, deploy and operate the Russian segment of International Space Station in the part of the work to create a multipurpose laboratory module for the period from 2011 to July 2013." Code: ROC "ISS" (MLM).

Federal Space Agency - government customer (hereinafter - the Customer) invites you to participate in an open competition for the state contract to perform work within the Russian Federal Space Program for 2006-2015.

Subject of a contract:
"Create, deploy and operate the Russian segment of International Space Station in the part of the work to create a multipurpose laboratory module for the period from 2011 to July 2013."
Code: ROC "ISS" (MLM).
The initial (maximum) contract price: 3.725 million 000.0 rubles.
Terms of the contract: November 2011 - July 2013
Place of work: the address of the Contractor.

Evaluation criteria are:
a) the contract price;
b) the quality of work, services and expertise of the participant when placing an order for execution of works and services.

Information about the competition:
Funding: Federal budget.
Preferences: RI: 0%, MIS: 0%
Ensuring the application are not required.
Provision of the contract: it is required.
Date, place and procedure of the tender documentation:
October 19, 2011 to November 22, 2011 at the Customer;
on the official website: http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/ and Online Customer: www.roscosmos.ru
Reception: October 20, 2011 to November 22, 2011 until 10:00. 00 min. Moscow time at the customer.
Date and place of opening envelopes and open access to filed in electronic form applications to participate in an open competition: November 22, 2011 at 10:00 00 min., At the customer.
Date and place of consideration of applications for participation in open competition: November 24, 2011 at 10:00 00 min., At the customer.
Date and place of tabulation of open competition: November 28, 2011 at 10:00 00 min., At the customer.

Customer name and address:
Client: Federal Space Agency, Office of Manned Programs
Address: ul. Shchepkin, 42, Moscow, GSP-6 107 996
Contact: - Vladimir Ashurkov
tel. (495) 631-8438, fax (495) 631-9033 E-mail: [email protected]

Additional Information:
The procedure for assessing applications for participation in the contest is determined by the Government of the Russian Federation of September 10, 2009 № 722.


Russian release: http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=15&did=1616&lang=ru

Google translated release: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roscosmos.ru%2Fmain.php%3Fid%3D15%26did%3D1616%26lang%3Dru
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 11/07/2011 04:21 PM
Just got word back from my ERA contact at ESA: Launch of MLM "Nauka" is NET september 2013.  :(
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: anik on 11/07/2011 05:44 PM
Electrical mock-up of MLM module will be transported from Khrunichev to Energia in today's night.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/11/2011 04:19 AM
MLM "Nauka" Test Article Shipped to RSC Energia

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2011/news_11-09.html
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 11/11/2011 04:40 AM
photo_11-09-05.jpg is interesting, are those mockups for other modules or actual modules?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jorge on 11/11/2011 04:56 AM
photo_11-09-05.jpg is interesting, are those mockups for other modules or actual modules?

The one in the lower left is Rassvet, an actual module. Don't know about the one in the background.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/11/2011 01:12 PM
photo_11-09-05.jpg is interesting, are those mockups for other modules or actual modules?

These are electro-mechanical test articles, Rassvet and Zveszda. I believe that the photo is taken at the Energia KIS.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: brahmanknight on 11/11/2011 01:29 PM
Why are the "space tug" based modules narrower on the inside than the Mir base block modules?   

As an outsider, it seems like there is not much useable space on the inside of the modules.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/11/2011 05:06 PM
Why are the "space tug" based modules narrower on the inside than the Mir base block modules?   

As an outsider, it seems like there is not much useable space on the inside of the modules.

First off, only one compartment on the Mir/ISS base block has the large 4.1 meter diameter. The smaller base block compartment is the same 2.9 meter diameter as FGB. And, FGB/MLM do have a short section that expands out to 4.1 meters, but this is usually occupied by storage compartments.

As for why TKS modules like FGB are generally narrower than a base block is to preserve some mass for their cargo. If the entire tug were 4.1 meters in diameter, its cargo mass would be significantly reduced, resulting in a big half empty tug.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Lars_J on 11/14/2011 04:40 PM
I had been under the impression that the MLM front (or is it rear?) :) would be a node with multiple docking ports for possible expansion - but there appears to be only one docking port. Is that right?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 11/14/2011 04:51 PM
I had been under the impression that the MLM front (or is it rear?) :) would be a node with multiple docking ports for possible expansion - but there appears to be only one docking port. Is that right?

The end of the MLM which will dock to the ISS will have one Hybrid docking port.

The opposite end of the MLM (which will face Nadir when it's on station) will have two docking ports - one standard cone for Soyuz/Progress dockings and later the multi-port Node Module, and one forward-facing APAS port for the MLM airlock.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/14/2011 11:38 PM
The end of the MLM which will dock to the ISS will have one Hybrid docking port.

The opposite end of the MLM (which will face Nadir when it's on station) will have two docking ports - one standard cone for Soyuz/Progress dockings and later the multi-port Node Module, and one forward-facing APAS port for the MLM airlock.

Is the radial port for the airlock really APAS? At one time, it was probe and cone, back when this article was FGB-2, but now its a bit of mystery what mating system will be used for the airlock. Since the airlock is already in orbit, attached to Rassvet, there are no good photos of its docking mechanism, so its all a  mystery to me.

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 11/15/2011 02:02 PM
Is the radial port for the airlock really APAS? At one time, it was probe and cone, back when this article was FGB-2, but now its a bit of mystery what mating system will be used for the airlock. Since the airlock is already in orbit, attached to Rassvet, there are no good photos of its docking mechanism, so its all a  mystery to me.

In this MLM A/L preflight photo, an APAS docking collar is clearly visible.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/15/2011 02:37 PM
Is the radial port for the airlock really APAS? At one time, it was probe and cone, back when this article was FGB-2, but now its a bit of mystery what mating system will be used for the airlock. Since the airlock is already in orbit, attached to Rassvet, there are no good photos of its docking mechanism, so its all a  mystery to me.

In this MLM A/L preflight photo, an APAS docking collar is clearly visible.

An "APAS docking collar" is the same as a hybrid docking collar or an IDSS docking collar. Although its hard to tell from the image because the collar is covered, it has a similar form factor as the APAS docking collar.

The mating system, however, is missing from the photo, and instead, under a plastic cover, we can see that it doesn't look like an APAS or a hybrid.

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 11/15/2011 03:00 PM
According to schemes available in L2 documents, the docking system seems to be new. It looks like an APAS, but with four spade-shaped guides instead of three.

I join a snapshot from a L2 document. If it's a bad idea, feel free to delete.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 11/15/2011 03:02 PM
This ESA picture confirms.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/23/2011 03:20 PM
I noticed that on the side of the MLM node facing away from the airlock will be a cupola, not too different from than on Soyuz. This small window will face aft, perhaps giving a better view of vehicles approaching the rear ISS docking port.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jason1701 on 12/28/2011 12:42 AM
From space.com:
Quote
In May 2012, Russia will launch the Nauka Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MPLM), a new room to be added onto the space station's Zvezda nadir port, replacing the Pirs docking compartment currently there. Nauka will house science experiments and cargo and will be used for docking, as well as work and rest areas for the crew.

They're off their rocker, right?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 12/28/2011 04:04 AM
The launch manifest still has May listed

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 12/28/2011 09:51 AM
From space.com:
Quote
In May 2012, Russia will launch the Nauka Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MPLM), a new room to be added onto the space station's Zvezda nadir port, replacing the Pirs docking compartment currently there. Nauka will house science experiments and cargo and will be used for docking, as well as work and rest areas for the crew.

They're off their rocker, right?

Yes, they are. I've heard two indepent sources confirm that launch of Nauka is NET september 2013. And that was over a month ago. The electrical and engineering model of Nauka was delivered to Energia some weeks ago, for integration, scheduled to last into the second half of 2012. Only after that has been done can we expect the flight model of Nauka to be delivered to Energia. And then the whole process begins over again, on the flight model.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 12/28/2011 05:44 PM
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2011/10/19/3806658.shtml

From translate.google.com with edits:

— 19.10.11 18:37 —

The Federal Space Agency announced a tender for the establishment of a research module for the ISS. Nearly four billion were rubles allocated  to finish the lab in a project approved for the Russian segment of the station in 2004. The module will be in orbit in the summer of 2013.

On Wednesday, the Federal Space Agency announced a competition to create a multipurpose laboratory module (MLM) for the Russian segment of International Space Station (MSC). The contract price is 3.725 billion rubles, the deadlines - November 2011 - July 2013.

As specified in the tender documentation, it is a "complement to the technical requirements for part of development activities," ISS - MLM "in terms of detail work stages from November this year to launch the new ISS module and its docking with the Russian segment. "When the work is used reserve, created in the course of "OKP" in the period 2006-2011" - stated in the specifications to the competition.

The winner, it seems, can already be called. It's Khrunichev together with RSC "Energia". Khrunichev has been working on the module with since the 1990s.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 01/04/2012 05:02 PM
A question about MLM for the experts:

Since the FGB was slated to operate in space for some time and then dock with the Service Module, I am guessing that it carried a very large prop supply. Since the flight maneuver requirements for MLM are probably significantly less than for FGB, I am wondering if the tankage and prop load will be less for MLM, freeing up more mass for cargo and other hardware.

What other differences are there between MLM and FGB, other than the ERA/radiator packages and the different docking ports?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 01/31/2012 02:37 PM
Noticed in the Russian launch schedule that some slip has been added from a May launch to a Sept launch?

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 01/31/2012 02:48 PM
Noticed in the Russian launch schedule that some slip has been added from a May launch to a Sept launch?

Last I heard, MLM was (unofficially) NET December 2013?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 02/01/2012 10:14 AM
Noticed in the Russian launch schedule that some slip has been added from a May launch to a Sept launch?


Which is basically confirming what ESA and NLR had already been told by the Russians, some time ago.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 02/06/2012 02:54 PM
Does this slip also push back the Node Module? If so, what's the new estimated launch date for NM?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 03/15/2012 04:55 PM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 03/15/2012 09:26 PM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.

*Sigh* ::)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 03/16/2012 12:45 AM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.


the date slipped the other day.  Now into 2014
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 03/16/2012 06:49 AM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.


the date slipped the other day.  Now into 2014

Just asked my NLR contact about this. He said the same. Launch NET spring 2014. I will ask my ESA contact as well.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Stan Black on 03/16/2012 09:59 AM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.


http://www.rosspending.ru/fk/contract/0025907000259/

What did they do with this one?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 03/16/2012 05:06 PM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.


http://www.rosspending.ru/fk/contract/0025907000259/

What did they do with this one?

I dunno, that page does not appear on the web site anymore.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 03/16/2012 05:12 PM
Why does the launch keep getting delayed?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 03/16/2012 07:48 PM
There is a discussion in the NK forum about another delay for the MLM. Apparently, Roskosmos has not ordered the launcher for MLM yet, and Energia's design for MLM outfitting is not the same as the Roskosmos requirements.


the date slipped the other day.  Now into 2014

Just asked my NLR contact about this. He said the same. Launch NET spring 2014. I will ask my ESA contact as well.

Got a reply from my ESA contact as well as additional information from my NLR contact. The constant delays to the launch of MLM are becoming a hornets nest.
The Netherlands is the supplier of the ERA robotic arm that is set to be launched on MLM. The Dutch government had just signed a contract worth several million Euros to speed up delivery of MLM for a launch in July 2013. The ink on this contract had barely dried when Thomas Reiter (director Human Spaceflight & Operations) anounced the delay, courtesy of Russia.
The Dutch government is seriously upset over this and is now contemplating pulling the plug on ERA. You see, despite the 'E' of ESA being part of the ERA acronym, most of the money for ERA comes from the Dutch government.
ESA top brass was not amused either by this latest Russian delay. Both ESA and the Dutch government will likely start putting pressure on Russia to have the MLM launch-date moved to back to the left. And indications are that the contract mentioned above will be terminated shortly.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jorge on 03/16/2012 08:18 PM
Why does the launch keep getting delayed?

There are two rules applicable to this situation.

1) It's always about the money.
2) When it's "not about the money", see rule 1. It's always about the money, even when it's "not about the money". Especially when it's "not about the money".
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 03/16/2012 09:57 PM
What is that contract above for? Can't read the Russian in my iPhone.

Also, if you want to link this to a conspiracy theory, my the delays are intentional and deliberate, since this module is the first module of their planned OPSEK space station (which is planned for operation after the life of the ISS at a higher orbit from detached RS modules). Since these modules include MLM (and the Node Module), delays in launching them, in return, increase their life expectancies for service in the future as OPSEK modules. Given that ISS has officially been given a life extension by a least a few years, the Russian delays in launching the newer modules by a few years perfectly accommodates the planned end of ISS service for the (now delayed) start of OPSEK service.

I don't like conspiracy theories and I hope this is not the case.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jim on 03/17/2012 12:51 AM
I don't like conspiracy theories and I hope this is not the case.

Then don't suggest them.  It isn't the case.  There is no money for OPSEK either.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 03/17/2012 04:10 AM
What is that contract above for? Can't read the Russian in my iPhone.

Also, if you want to link this to a conspiracy theory, my the delays are intentional and deliberate, since this module is the first module of their planned OPSEK space station (which is planned for operation after the life of the ISS at a higher orbit from detached RS modules). Since these modules include MLM (and the Node Module), delays in launching them, in return, increase their life expectancies for service in the future as OPSEK modules. Given that ISS has officially been given a life extension by a least a few years, the Russian delays in launching the newer modules by a few years perfectly accommodates the planned end of ISS service for the (now delayed) start of OPSEK service.

I don't like conspiracy theories and I hope this is not the case.

Let's say that MLM is delayed until 2015, but ISS is extended through 2028. That makes the MLM 13 years old at that time, probably not worth salvaging.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 03/17/2012 05:02 AM
Why does the launch keep getting delayed?

There are two rules applicable to this situation.

1) It's always about the money.
2) When it's "not about the money", see rule 1. It's always about the money, even when it's "not about the money". Especially when it's "not about the money".
Of course it has to do with money but I wanted an answer a little more specific.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Stan Black on 03/17/2012 06:17 AM
What is that contract above for? Can't read the Russian in my iPhone.

The contract was for just the Proton-M, to be completed by October 2009.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg833122#msg833122

Proton-K had a shelf life of 5 years.

http://www.old.mil.ru/848/1045/1276/18716/index.shtml
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 03/17/2012 08:46 PM
Dander, I read somewhere that MLM was designed for a lifespan of
30 years.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 03/17/2012 08:57 PM
In response to there not being money for OPEK, two modules of OPEK are already funded: MLM and the Node Module. The rest of the modules have been approved "authorized" via the 5-year spending plan. You could expect the next OPEK module to be funded in the Russian fiscal year following completion and launch of MLM and Node (now looking like 2014 or 2015). Of course, design work has to be done first, so those modules are likely to slip further right.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jim on 03/18/2012 10:47 AM
In response to there not being money for OPEK, two modules of OPEK are already funded: MLM and the Node Module.

Funding must include the  launch vehicle. A module on the ground is useless.  Money IS the problem.  OPEK is still not real.   MLM and the Node Module are part of the ISS. 
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 03/18/2012 03:08 PM
Strange...

Russia to launch new ISS module in 2013 as scheduled: Roscosmos

Russia's federal space agency Roscosmos denied reports Friday of a delay to the launch of the new multi-purpose Nauka lab for the International Space Station (ISS).

"The launch has been planned for the second half of 2013. No decisions about a delay have been made," said Alexei Krasnov, head of Roscosmos' department for manned flights.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-03/16/c_122845684.htm
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 03/18/2012 07:22 PM
Strange...

Russia to launch new ISS module in 2013 as scheduled: Roscosmos

Russia's federal space agency Roscosmos denied reports Friday of a delay to the launch of the new multi-purpose Nauka lab for the International Space Station (ISS).

"The launch has been planned for the second half of 2013. No decisions about a delay have been made," said Alexei Krasnov, head of Roscosmos' department for manned flights.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/2012-03/16/c_122845684.htm

That's because Thursday they got very angry official reactions from both the Dutch government and ESA. Standard reaction by the Russians is then to deny everything. Despite Glasnost not a whole lot has changed with regards to the standard Russian kneejerk reaction when people start asking questions they don't like.
Witin a few months this "no decision about a delay has been made"  will turn into "A decision about a delay has been made". The july 2013 launch date is off the table, it will be 2014, no matter what Krasnov now tries to convince us of.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 03/19/2012 12:17 AM
Krasnov may be technically correct, in that the official decision to delay the launch has not yet been made.  Officially, MLM is still scheduled for launch next year.

Of course, Roskosmos may make the decision to officially delay the launch.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 03/20/2012 10:35 AM
Krasnov may be technically correct, in that the official decision to delay the launch has not yet been made.  Officially, MLM is still scheduled for launch next year.

Of course, Roskosmos may make the decision to officially delay the launch.

From what I'm hearing it's not so much that Roskosmos 'may' make the decision to delay... no, Roskosmos 'will' make the decision to delay the launch.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 03/21/2012 08:13 AM
"That's coming around towards the end of 2013, as we understand it" @ ~1:05:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16rfcTbU_D4&
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 04/09/2012 03:14 PM
An update on the MLM:

Quote
We will also continue our efforts aimed at building the Multipurpose Laboratory Module for the International Space Station.  This module will feature absolutely new properties and functionality that will expand the ISS abilities in the field of research and engineering experimentation.  In this effort we collaborate with Energia RKK, a Russian space-oriented corporation.  We stick closely to the established schedule though not without problems.  This totally new module is to be an extremely sophisticated item with a vast functional potential.  It will contain a great number of newly-designed systems, which entails permanent updates of design documents.  Still, we must make this endeavor a reality.

At present, an electrical simulator of the new module is at Energia and much will depend on what this simulator will show.  The results of its tests will define the due date for the shipment of the flight article to the City of Korolev where Energia is located.  There exists the due date — 2013 established by the authorities, there exists a governing document and we have been working in compliance with this directive.

From an interview with Vladimir Nesterov, Khrunichev General Director.
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=738
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 04/09/2012 06:06 PM
An update on the MLM:

Quote
We will also continue our efforts aimed at building the Multipurpose Laboratory Module for the International Space Station.  This module will feature absolutely new properties and functionality that will expand the ISS abilities in the field of research and engineering experimentation.  In this effort we collaborate with Energia RKK, a Russian space-oriented corporation.  We stick closely to the established schedule though not without problems.  This totally new module is to be an extremely sophisticated item with a vast functional potential.  It will contain a great number of newly-designed systems, which entails permanent updates of design documents.  Still, we must make this endeavor a reality.

At present, an electrical simulator of the new module is at Energia and much will depend on what this simulator will show.  The results of its tests will define the due date for the shipment of the flight article to the City of Korolev where Energia is located.  There exists the due date — 2013 established by the authorities, there exists a governing document and we have been working in compliance with this directive.

From an interview with Vladimir Nesterov, Khrunichev General Director.
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=738
And that confirms the due date for shipping the flight article to Energia as somewhere in 2013. With all the work that then remains on MLM the launch date will definitely go into 2014, like it was communicated by the Russians to ESA a few weeks ago. Oh well...
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 04/09/2012 06:33 PM
And that confirms the due date for shipping the flight article to Energia as somewhere in 2013. With all the work that then remains on MLM the launch date will definitely go into 2014, like it was communicated by the Russians to ESA a few weeks ago. Oh well...

I should think that it would depend on when in 2013 it would be shipped - if it's in Q1 or Q2, then there may be enough time to launch it in Q4.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 05/02/2012 02:36 PM
Anik reports in the NK forum that the flight article will be delivered to Energia at the end of 2012. I would expect 18 months between this milestone and launch.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 05/02/2012 05:21 PM
Anik reports in the NK forum that the flight article will be delivered to Energia at the end of 2012. I would expect 18 months between this milestone and launch.
Yes, and that fits nicely with what the Russians had told ESA to expect already. Launch is now NET first half of 2014.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 05/11/2012 05:18 PM
And now for something completely different ...

This photo shows a mockup of the aft end of the FGB (or MLM, as they share the same structure). For those not well versed in such things, the aft end represents two different frustrums joined together.

The frustrum leading to the rest of the spacecraft has a max diameter of 4.1 meters, and connects to the 2.9 meter main body. When the original TKS was designed, there was to be a cosmonaut station with a window at the top of the frustrum, so the cosmonaut could control docking with Almaz.

The rear frustrum leads to the 1.5 meter docking adapter.

Note that in the FGB and probably the MLM, the periphery of the frustrum, the widest area, is taken up by storage, and I don't think the crew can easily get in there. The central tunnel of the FGB does not see to get any wider inside the frustrum, it seems to be the same length throughout the spacecraft.

I suspect that one or both of these frustrums are derived from the structure of the Proton 3rd stage - I don't believe I have seen a good photo of the Proton 3rd stage lying around the factory, so I can't be sure.

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 05/11/2012 09:09 PM
No, this is the aft end of the Priroda simulator. MLM mock-up is next to the Zarya simulator.

See my pictures here : http://www.kosmonavtika.com/vaisseaux/mir/visite/tspk/tspk.html
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 05/11/2012 11:24 PM
No, this is the aft end of the Priroda simulator. MLM mock-up is next to the Zarya simulator.

See my pictures here : http://www.kosmonavtika.com/vaisseaux/mir/visite/tspk/tspk.html

All of the TKS class modules look pretty much  the same from that angle.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 05/14/2012 04:46 PM
I suspect that one or both of these frustrums are derived from the structure of the Proton 3rd stage - I don't believe I have seen a good photo of the Proton 3rd stage lying around the factory, so I can't be sure.

I was once in the NPO Mash facility at Reutov, and one of the original designers of Almaz showed me the process by which they designed Almaz, the first step was to take something like a propellant tank, and use that as the basic of a pressurized compartment; I am fairly sure that the same approach was used to develop the 4.1 meter diameter aft compartment for TKS, the question is which propellant tank was used as the basis for that structure, and I believe that was the Proton 3rd stage.

The same for other spacecraft, as well, I believe that the Soyuz orbital module is based on a Soyuz LV prop tank.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 05/21/2012 12:19 AM
Here's the Nauka training mock-up at the Gagarin Training Center on April 23rd.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 05/28/2012 05:55 AM
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_05_23_2012_p05-01-460939.xml

The first commercial launch intended to berth at the ISS drew congratulations from the agency heads at the conference, and from stand-ins for Bolden and the leaders of the Indian and Japanese space agencies. Popovkin later told reporters that his agency is shifting its station-research focus from life sciences work to engineering developments that can support human exploration beyond low Earth orbit.

That work will center on a new multipurpose laboratory module Roscosmos hopes to launch to the space station in 2014, he says. Among the work that may be possible is an in-space repeat of the Mars 500 ground simulation of a human mission to Mars.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 05/28/2012 04:59 PM
Wow, that article was all over the place! From wanting NASA to go back to CxP goals to global participation including China to Putin's support of the Russian space program. The article made a small mistake when it said Putin supported the Russian space program during his first term in office; should have said "during his first terms" in office. This is his third term as President, with a 6-year break between his second and third terms.

Just wanted to comment on that article in general without going off topic too much...
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/03/2012 10:54 PM
The leading indicator that things are moving on MLM would be the announcement that the European Robotic Arm has been shipped to Russia for integration.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/04/2012 10:55 AM
The leading indicator that things are moving on MLM would be the announcement that the European Robotic Arm has been shipped to Russia for integration.

I'll kick in the wide open door: Has such an announcement been made recently?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/05/2012 12:23 AM
No.

 :-\
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/05/2012 06:00 AM
Yah, that's what I figured. I'll contact my NLR source to hear if there are any additional details on this.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/05/2012 10:18 AM
Well, my NLR source came up clean, but I got this from my ESA source:

- ERA flight model has been in Russia since 2005.
- MLM flight model still at Krunichev (yeah -we knew that already)
- ERA flight model will be transported to Energia for integration preps in october 2012
- Integration of ERA flight model and MLM flight model is tentavily planned for:
Quote
somewhere in next year
(meaning: 2013).

Funnily enough, the 'official' launch date on NASA FPWG's ISS flight plan is still listed as June 30, 2013. (that's per the ISS flight plan version of May 24, 2012). But, there is the statement of Vladimir Popovkin (head of Roscosmos) that MLM is planned for launch in 2014. So, I think it's safe to say that a future version of the FPWG ISS flight plan will show an MLM NET launchdate somewhere in 2014.

Edit 1: Removed the image of the FPWG ISS flight plan because NASA got jitters for it being on this forum.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/05/2012 10:43 AM
And this just in from my NLR source:

- The Netherlands (the biggest provider of funds for ERA) recently decided that they will cut-off any further funding for ERA starting January 1, 2014
- ESA subsequently requested the Dutch government to re-think that decision. They want to see funding continue to at least Mid-2014.

To my untrained eye that reads as: ESA is not sure they will get ERA to the ISS before 2014. This might be another indicator that MLM will not fly before 2014.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: robertross on 06/05/2012 03:47 PM
And this just in from my NLR source:

- The Netherlands (the biggest provider of funds for ERA) recently decided that they will cut-off any further funding for ERA starting January 1, 2014
- ESA subsequently requested the Dutch government to re-think that decision. They want to see funding continue to at least Mid-2014.

To my untrained eye that reads as: ESA is not sure they will get ERA to the ISS before 2014. This might be another indicator that MLM will not fly before 2014.

Thanks (and to your source).

Certainly an understandable situation for the Dutch government with Russia dragging its feet on this. For the timeline though, I would imagine that would need ground support from the tems up to launch, possibly up to installation & integration to the ISS systems. If that were the case, it could still be in the late 2013/early 2014 timeframe for launch (not that I'm holding my breath).
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/05/2012 07:07 PM
Well, my NLR source came up clean, but I got this from my ESA source:

- ERA flight model has been in Russia since 2005.


according to this October 2005 press release:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM4H3638FE_index_0.html

"Under the contract now signed, the consortium, led by Dutch Space, will requalify the ERA flight and ground segment for a launch on Proton, and will deliver the ERA hardware to Russia. "

So that delivery date of 2005 may not be correct.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/05/2012 07:34 PM
Well, my NLR source came up clean, but I got this from my ESA source:

- ERA flight model has been in Russia since 2005.


according to this October 2005 press release:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM4H3638FE_index_0.html

"Under the contract now signed, the consortium, led by Dutch Space, will requalify the ERA flight and ground segment for a launch on Proton, and will deliver the ERA hardware to Russia. "

So that delivery date of 2005 may not be correct.

No, that delivery date is correct. I specifically asked my sources about this. Don't forget: the decision to fly ERA on a Russian ISS module was taken in the summer of 2004. ESA went at best speed and almost immediately moved the WET model of ERA to Russia. It was tested multiple times in the NBL facility of the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre near Moscow, starting in December 2004.
See here (http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMKVAXJD1E_Netherlands_0.html) and here (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041206202129.htm) and here (http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=15614).

The flight model followed in 2005, less than a month after the contract-signing Danderman mentioned thru the link above.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: FinalFrontier on 06/07/2012 12:25 AM
Bottom line here:

Does it look like its going to fly or not?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/07/2012 02:14 PM
Bottom line here:

Does it look like its going to fly or not?

Yes, it will fly. Sooner or (more likely) later. The Russians would make huge fools out of themselves if they cancelled it at this stage (now that hardware is finally starting to leave the Krunichev plant and heading for Energia for integration).
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: mdmcgrory on 06/10/2012 01:26 AM
What is that contract above for? Can't read the Russian in my iPhone.

Also, if you want to link this to a conspiracy theory, my the delays are intentional and deliberate, since this module is the first module of their planned OPSEK space station (which is planned for operation after the life of the ISS at a higher orbit from detached RS modules). Since these modules include MLM (and the Node Module), delays in launching them, in return, increase their life expectancies for service in the future as OPSEK modules. Given that ISS has officially been given a life extension by a least a few years, the Russian delays in launching the newer modules by a few years perfectly accommodates the planned end of ISS service for the (now delayed) start of OPSEK service.

I don't like conspiracy theories and I hope this is not the case.

Let's say that MLM is delayed until 2015, but ISS is extended through 2028. That makes the MLM 13 years old at that time, probably not worth salvaging.


Anyway, it was my understanding that the way PMA1 was attached to FGB1 it would make it nearly impossible for reasonable disconnection. So wouldn't the MLM and all the other modules that would eventually make up OPSEK being launched into space be even more pointless if they are going to be hauling part of the Z1 Truss, the US airlock, and some other dead elements around?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 06/10/2012 04:41 AM
What is that contract above for? Can't read the Russian in my iPhone.

Also, if you want to link this to a conspiracy theory, my the delays are intentional and deliberate, since this module is the first module of their planned OPSEK space station (which is planned for operation after the life of the ISS at a higher orbit from detached RS modules). Since these modules include MLM (and the Node Module), delays in launching them, in return, increase their life expectancies for service in the future as OPSEK modules. Given that ISS has officially been given a life extension by a least a few years, the Russian delays in launching the newer modules by a few years perfectly accommodates the planned end of ISS service for the (now delayed) start of OPSEK service.

I don't like conspiracy theories and I hope this is not the case.

Let's say that MLM is delayed until 2015, but ISS is extended through 2028. That makes the MLM 13 years old at that time, probably not worth salvaging.


Anyway, it was my understanding that the way PMA1 was attached to FGB1 it would make it nearly impossible for reasonable disconnection. So wouldn't the MLM and all the other modules that would eventually make up OPSEK being launched into space be even more pointless if they are going to be hauling part of the Z1 Truss, the US airlock, and some other dead elements around?
I don't think Zarya or Zvevda is planned to be used.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 06/10/2012 11:09 AM
What is that contract above for? Can't read the Russian in my iPhone.

Also, if you want to link this to a conspiracy theory, my the delays are intentional and deliberate, since this module is the first module of their planned OPSEK space station (which is planned for operation after the life of the ISS at a higher orbit from detached RS modules). Since these modules include MLM (and the Node Module), delays in launching them, in return, increase their life expectancies for service in the future as OPSEK modules. Given that ISS has officially been given a life extension by a least a few years, the Russian delays in launching the newer modules by a few years perfectly accommodates the planned end of ISS service for the (now delayed) start of OPSEK service.

I don't like conspiracy theories and I hope this is not the case.

Let's say that MLM is delayed until 2015, but ISS is extended through 2028. That makes the MLM 13 years old at that time, probably not worth salvaging.


Anyway, it was my understanding that the way PMA1 was attached to FGB1 it would make it nearly impossible for reasonable disconnection. So wouldn't the MLM and all the other modules that would eventually make up OPSEK being launched into space be even more pointless if they are going to be hauling part of the Z1 Truss, the US airlock, and some other dead elements around?
I don't think Zarya or Zvevda is planned to be used.

Please, take that discussion to a new thread please. This one is not about future possible use of MLM, but about the question if and when it will be launched.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/27/2012 01:33 AM
Courtesy of the NK forum, an image of the MLM, taken at some point from this YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M7gCWzJSx4



Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: robertross on 06/27/2012 01:51 AM
They are ACTUALLY working on it. I'm surprised...lol

Maybe it will get launched. hehe
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/27/2012 02:28 AM
They are ACTUALLY working on it. I'm surprised...lol

Maybe it will get launched. hehe

I have the feeling that they assemble  a crew to work on it when they know cameras are coming.

BTW, the video has a fantastic and hilarious ending.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 06/27/2012 03:04 AM
They are ACTUALLY working on it. I'm surprised...lol

Maybe it will get launched. hehe

I have the feeling that they assemble  a crew to work on it when they know cameras are coming.

BTW, the video has a fantastic and hilarious ending.


Why is that ending hilarious? Do I need to understand Russian to see why?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 06/27/2012 03:31 AM
They are ACTUALLY working on it. I'm surprised...lol

Maybe it will get launched. hehe

I have the feeling that they assemble  a crew to work on it when they know cameras are coming.

BTW, the video has a fantastic and hilarious ending.


And it docked to the wrong port, should be SM( Zvezda) nadir, not FGB/Zarya
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 06/27/2012 03:40 AM
They are ACTUALLY working on it. I'm surprised...lol

Maybe it will get launched. hehe

I have the feeling that they assemble  a crew to work on it when they know cameras are coming.

BTW, the video has a fantastic and hilarious ending.


And it docked to the wrong port, should be SM( Zvezda) nadir, not FGB/Zarya
I noticed that too but admittedly NASA/SpaceX has done similar things with animations.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/27/2012 06:25 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2522

Khrunichev continues work on the creation of MLM

26/06/2012

In the Khrunichev Space Center, and work is continuing on making the flight multifunction products laboratory module (MLM) for the International Space Station.

To date, the final installed docking port on the transition chamber. There is a pipeline construction is carried out rentgenoispytaniya joints. Inside the module installed equipment layouts for the board layout, the cable network. Completed the test temperature control system, starting pnevmoispytaniya pneumatichydraulic systems.

After completion of fabrication and assembly of flight products (planned before the end of 2012), a multifunctional laboratory module will be transferred to the RSC "Energia" for further comprehensive tests.

Launch of the Russian module by the carrier rocket "Proton" is scheduled for 2013.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/29/2012 10:22 AM
Some details on MLM in 2011 Energiya annual report.

Quote
Создание многоцелевого лабораторного модуля (МЛМ) «Наука»
Заключен контракт с Роскосмосом на проведение работ по теме ОКР «МКС» (МЛМ) на 2010 – 2011 годы.
В декабре 2011 года заключен контракт с Роскосмосом на проведение работ по теме ОКР «МКС» (МЛМ) на 2011 – 2013 годы.
В 2011 году проводились работы по испытаниям экспериментальных изделий МЛМ - А77КМЛ, Б77КМЛ, В77КМЛ, а также сборке комплексного стенда – изделие 3Х77КМЛ и штатного изделия 77КМЛ.
 
Изделие для статических и циклических испытаний корпуса: изделие А77КМЛ

Завершены статические и циклические испытания прочности сборки А2 изделия А77КМЛ, состоящей из корпусов ПГО-1 и ПГО-2, новой проставки между коническим днищем и стыковочным агрегатом (СТА), конструкции крепления радиационного теплообменника дополнительного (РТОд). Выполнено дооснащение сборки А2 в сборку А3 жесткостными имитаторами головного обтекателя (ГО) и ракетоносителя, силовыми имитаторами пневмотолкателей на ГО. Проводились статические испытания сборки А3 для подтверждения прочности вновь разработанного промежуточного отсека (ПрО), которые были завершены в январе 2012 года.

Изделие для отработки механизмов новой разработки (автономная отработка 26 новых агрегатов и механизмов): изделие Б77КМЛ

Продолжены испытания экспериментальных изделий МЛМ для подтверждения прочности конструкции модуля и его элементов. К концу 2011 года завершена автономная отработка 11 и продолжены испытания 12 агрегатов и механизмов новой разработки.

Изделие для отработки динамической прочности мест закрепления вновь выводимого оборудования МЛМ: изделие В77КМЛ

Завершены испытания сборки В1 для подтверждения прочности мест крепления оборудования на этапе транспортирования, состоящей из корпусов гермоадаптера (ГА) и ПГО-3 с каркасом интерьера и габаритно-массовыми макетами оборудования. Выполнено дооснащение сборки В1 в сборку В2 массово-жесткостными имитаторами ERA и солнечных батарей. Проводились динамические испытания сборки В2 для подтверждения прочности мест крепления оборудования в режимах участка выведения, автономного и орбитального полета, которые были завершены в феврале 2012 года.

Комплексный электрический стенд МЛМ (полноразмерный макет МЛМ): изделие 3Х77КМЛ

С целью обеспечения своевременного ввода в эксплуатацию комплексного электрического стенда - полноразмерного макета МЛМ (изделие 3Х77КМЛ), в ноябре 2011 года макет перевезен из ГКНПЦ им. М.В. Хруничева в ОАО «РКК «Энергия» для проведения работ по его досборке и подготовке к электроиспытаниям. Завершены работы по установке приборов и блоков, монтажу и подключению бортовой и технологической кабельной сети. В декабре 2011 года изделие официально передано для проведения заводских контрольных испытаний на КИС предприятия.

Штатное изделие МЛМ: изделие 77КМЛ

Изделие передано в сборочный цех ГКНПЦ им. М.В. Хруничева и начаты работы по монтажу трубопроводов, завершается изготовление комплектующих ОАО «РКК «Энергия».
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 06/29/2012 02:28 PM
MLM "Nauka" Test Article Shipped to RSC Energia

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2011/news_11-09.html

So, the designation for this test module is  3Х77КМЛ per the Energia annual report.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Lars_J on 06/29/2012 04:56 PM
Some details on MLM in 2011 Energiya annual report.


Google translated version:
Quote
Creating a multipurpose laboratory module (MLM) "Science"

A contract with the Russian Space Agency to carry out works on the topic of OCD "ISS" (MLM) for 2010 - 2011.
In December 2011 a contract with the Russian Space Agency to carry out works on the topic of OCD "ISS" (MLM) for 2011 - 2013.
In 2011, work on tests of experimental products MLM - A77KML, B77KML, V77KML, as well as an integrated assembly of the stand - and a full product 3H77KML 77KML products.
 
The product for static and cyclic tests of the case: the product A77KML

Completed static and cyclic strength tests of the assembly A2 A77KML product consisting of a corps of CHR-1 and PGE-2, the new spacers between the conical bottom and docking assembly (CTA), the construction of additional mounting of the radiation heat exchanger (RTOd). Completed retrofit assembly A2 A3 rigidity to the assembly simulator fairing (GO) and the launch vehicle, power on IR pnevmotolkateley imitators. Static tests were performed to confirm the A3 assembly strength of newly developed intermediate compartment (ABM), which was completed in January 2012.

The product is to work out mechanisms for the development of a new (independent working out of 26 new machines and mechanisms): product B77KML

Continued testing of experimental products MLM to confirm the strength of the structure of the module and its components. By the end of 2011 completed an autonomous working out 11 and continued testing of 12 units and mechanisms of the new development.

The product for testing dynamic strength back seats fixing equipment MLM displayed: product V77KML

Completed the test assembly B1 to confirm the strength of attachment sites during transportation of equipment, consisting of buildings germoadaptera (HA) and CHR-3 frame and interior dimensions and mass models of the equipment. Completed retrofit assembly in the assembly B1 B2 mass-rigidity imitators ERA and solar panels. Dynamic tests were conducted to confirm the B2 assembly seats fastening strength equipment in the modes of the ejection phase, and the autonomous orbital flight, which was completed in February 2012.

Integrated Electric Stand MLM (full-size mock MLM) product 3H77KML

In order to ensure timely commissioning of an integrated electric stand - full-size layout MLM (product 3H77KML), in November 2011 moved the layout of the Khrunichev them. MV Khrunichev in OAO "RSC" Energia "for work on its preparation and dosborke elektroispytaniyam. Completed the installation of devices and units, installation and wiring board and process cabling. In December 2011 the product has officially handed over for factory control tests on the EIS company.

Staffing MLM product: the product 77KML

The product is transferred to the assembly plant Khrunichev them. MV Khrunichev, and work began on the installation of pipelines, completes construction of components of "RSC" Energia ".
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 07/10/2012 04:49 PM
Flight Program Working Group (FPWG) update from June 27th (became final July 9th):

Launch of MLM now officially in december 2013. Yes, that's a full 6-month move to the right ( = DELAY) in two months time. Unofficially (according to my ESA source) the launch is now scheduled in late summer 2014 (they use a 6 - 8 months contingency delay in their schedule)

Edit 1: emphasized that "a move to the right" means "delay".

Edit 2: Removed the image of hte FPWG ISS flight plan from this post as NASA got the jitters about it being on this forum.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 07/10/2012 05:52 PM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 07/10/2012 06:36 PM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?



What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: psloss on 07/10/2012 06:57 PM
Flight Program Working Group (FPWG) update from June 27th (became final July 9th):
Amazing, a news post.  Seriously, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 07/10/2012 07:21 PM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 07/10/2012 09:18 PM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.

The FPWG flight plan shows a 'new' (and official) delay of MLM launch of six months. That's spelled delay, not movement. You don't move forward with constant delays.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 07/10/2012 10:56 PM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.

The FPWG flight plan shows a 'new' (and official) delay of MLM launch of six months. That's spelled delay, not movement. You don't move forward with constant delays.

must have mis-read things....thought the MLM was getting some forward movement...sigh
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: FinalFrontier on 07/10/2012 11:23 PM
They are ACTUALLY working on it. I'm surprised...lol

Maybe it will get launched. hehe

I have the feeling that they assemble  a crew to work on it when they know cameras are coming.

BTW, the video has a fantastic and hilarious ending.


And it docked to the wrong port, should be SM( Zvezda) nadir, not FGB/Zarya

Oh god that was funny  :o
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Frandolf on 07/19/2012 11:48 AM
one more report on the delay to Q4/2013 as the new official date:

http://en.rian.ru/science/20120717/174643829.html (http://en.rian.ru/science/20120717/174643829.html)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: rsnellenberger on 07/19/2012 04:33 PM
Interesting video -- since this is the first time an FGB-based spacecraft has docked with the manned ISS, I wondering whether the Russians have started talking to the ISS partners about the test plan leading up to the docking (a la ATV, HTV, SpaceX, etc)?

That's a lot of mass coming at the station...
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 07/19/2012 09:49 PM
one more report on the delay to Q4/2013 as the new official date:

http://en.rian.ru/science/20120717/174643829.html (http://en.rian.ru/science/20120717/174643829.html)


According to that article, they've been working on this this thing since 1995! That's almost twenty years! I hope they're a lot faster with the two power modules! Well, they did build the Node Module in record time, so anything's possible...

Also, the article said MLM will have motors that could steer ISS. I take it, this is different than the re-boost engines, as this is not for altitude control, but could alter the station's orbital position? Is there such an engine currently on the station?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Alpha Control on 07/19/2012 10:31 PM
Also, the article said MLM will have motors that could steer ISS. I take it, this is different than the re-boost engines, as this is not for altitude control, but could alter the station's orbital position? Is there such an engine currently on the station?

The thrusters are for roll control. ISS has a large roll moment of inertia and the roll thrusters on the SM have a very short moment arm, so normally a Progress is docked to Pirs for more efficient roll control. The MLM roll thrusters will eliminate the need for that.

Interesting Jorge. Does that mean the CMGs aren't effective for roll control (or aren't as effective as is needed)?

David
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Alpha Control on 07/19/2012 10:54 PM
Also, the article said MLM will have motors that could steer ISS. I take it, this is different than the re-boost engines, as this is not for altitude control, but could alter the station's orbital position? Is there such an engine currently on the station?

The thrusters are for roll control. ISS has a large roll moment of inertia and the roll thrusters on the SM have a very short moment arm, so normally a Progress is docked to Pirs for more efficient roll control. The MLM roll thrusters will eliminate the need for that.

Interesting Jorge. Does that mean the CMGs aren't effective for roll control (or aren't as effective as is needed)?

David

They're effective but still need to be desaturated using thruster firings. Roll desats without a Progress present use a lot of SM prop.

Thanks very much for that info, Jorge.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 07/19/2012 11:10 PM


They're effective but still need to be desaturated using thruster firings. Roll desats without a Progress present use a lot of SM prop.

Which begs the question as to how the CMGs are desaturated in other axis, or are thruster firings along the roll axis sufficient?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 07/19/2012 11:48 PM
one more report on the delay to Q4/2013 as the new official date:

http://en.rian.ru/science/20120717/174643829.html (http://en.rian.ru/science/20120717/174643829.html)


I should note that this was not announced by Roskosmos, but by Energia, so its not really official, but its real.

Energia was very emphatic that the delays were caused by institutional chaos at Khrunichev.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 07/31/2012 02:21 AM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.

The FPWG flight plan shows a 'new' (and official) delay of MLM launch of six months. That's spelled delay, not movement. You don't move forward with constant delays.

Just put all the pieces together.......thought the MLM got moved like a year up in launch with your posts.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26990.msg932351#msg932351
Just saw the posting in the Russian section of this site its listed as 2014.

2014 TBD – MLM – Proton-M – Baikonur     

Edit: add link
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 07/31/2012 05:33 AM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.

The FPWG flight plan shows a 'new' (and official) delay of MLM launch of six months. That's spelled delay, not movement. You don't move forward with constant delays.

Just put all the pieces together.......thought the MLM got moved like a year up in launch with your posts.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26990.msg932351#msg932351
Just saw the posting in the Russian section of this site its listed as 2014.

2014 TBD – MLM – Proton-M – Baikonur     

Edit: add link

You may want to cross reference this with the Node Module thread. Also listed in 2014 is this reference to the Node Module...

TBD – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur

Two Russian ISS in one year woo hoo! Wait, this has been done done before... MRM-1/MRM-2 (2010) and FGB/SM (1998)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 07/31/2012 05:54 AM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.

The FPWG flight plan shows a 'new' (and official) delay of MLM launch of six months. That's spelled delay, not movement. You don't move forward with constant delays.

Just put all the pieces together.......thought the MLM got moved like a year up in launch with your posts.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26990.msg932351#msg932351
Just saw the posting in the Russian section of this site its listed as 2014.

2014 TBD – MLM – Proton-M – Baikonur     

Edit: add link

You may want to cross reference this with the Node Module thread. Also listed in 2014 is this reference to the Node Module...

TBD – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur

Two Russian ISS in one year woo hoo! Wait, this has been done done before... MRM-1/MRM-2 (2010) and FGB/SM (1998)
Not exactly. Here's a timeline of the launched ROS modules.

Zarya    - Launched on November 20, 1998
Zvezda  - Launched on July 12, 2000
Pirs       - Launched on September 14, 2001
Poisk     - Launched on November 10, 2009
Rassvet - Launched on May 14, 2010
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 08/03/2012 02:53 PM
http://ria.ru/science/20120803/715777603.html

No earlier than March 2014, per this article.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 08/03/2012 03:20 PM
http://ria.ru/science/20120803/715777603.html

No earlier than March 2014, per this article.


This launch is more slippy than a banana skin atop a bar of soap on a wet floor. :D
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 08/04/2012 01:34 AM
Could it be that the ESA talking to China has something to do with this?

What does that have to do with the constant delays of a Russian ISS module?
Let me put it this way: MLM has a long history of delays, many years in fact. ESA talking to China about closer co-op is a fairly recent development. So, I don't see how talks to China and a long-lasting series of delays for a Russian module are related.

you misunderstood, not delays....some movement.

The FPWG flight plan shows a 'new' (and official) delay of MLM launch of six months. That's spelled delay, not movement. You don't move forward with constant delays.

Just put all the pieces together.......thought the MLM got moved like a year up in launch with your posts.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26990.msg932351#msg932351
Just saw the posting in the Russian section of this site its listed as 2014.

2014 TBD – MLM – Proton-M – Baikonur     

Edit: add link

You may want to cross reference this with the Node Module thread. Also listed in 2014 is this reference to the Node Module...

TBD – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur

Two Russian ISS in one year woo hoo! Wait, this has been done done before... MRM-1/MRM-2 (2010) and FGB/SM (1998)
Not exactly. Here's a timeline of the launched ROS modules.

Zarya    - Launched on November 20, 1998
Zvezda  - Launched on July 12, 2000
Pirs       - Launched on September 14, 2001
Poisk     - Launched on November 10, 2009
Rassvet - Launched on May 14, 2010


Nit picking.... Okay, then, "...within 20 months..."
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 08/08/2012 05:39 AM
With the Briz-M failure on the latest Proton launch, would this affect the MLM's Proton launch? What upper stage will it require, or will the MLM's own propulsion act as an upper stage? I do realize, by the way, that MLM's launch is still a long ways off that, even if this failure were related to the its LV, any potential issues (most likely), would have probably been resolved by then, thus not affecting schedule.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/08/2012 05:47 AM
With the Briz-M failure on the latest Proton launch, would this affect the MLM's Proton launch? What upper stage will it require, or will the MLM's own propulsion act not require an upper stage? I do realize, by the way, that MLM's launch is still a long ways off that, even if this failure were related to the its LV, any potential issues (most likely), would have probably been resolved by then, thus not affecting schedule.

It won't need an upper stage to reach orbit - see the launch of Zarya in 1998. The MLM would then use its own engines to move to the ISS.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 08/08/2012 11:37 AM
With the Briz-M failure on the latest Proton launch, would this affect the MLM's Proton launch? What upper stage will it require, or will the MLM's own propulsion act as its upper stage? I do realize, by the way, that MLM's launch is still a long ways off that, even if this failure were related to the its LV, any potential issues (most likely), would have probably been resolved by then, thus not affecting schedule.

It won't need an upper stage to reach orbit - see the launch of Zarya in 1998. The MLM would then use its own engines to move to the ISS.

Cool, so this mishap should not affect MLM, unless for some reason Russian space officials decide to suspend all Proton launches, which is doubtful.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jim on 08/08/2012 12:21 PM
I do realize, by the way, that MLM's launch is still a long ways off that, even if this failure were related to the its LV, any potential issues (most likely), would have probably been resolved by then, thus not affecting schedule.

Then why ask the question?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 08/08/2012 12:31 PM
I do realize, by the way, that MLM's launch is still a long ways off that, even if this failure were related to the its LV, any potential issues (most likely), would have probably been resolved by then, thus not affecting schedule.

Then why ask the question?

Because I don't know...
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Jim on 08/08/2012 12:36 PM
I do realize, by the way, that MLM's launch is still a long ways off that, even if this failure were related to the its LV, any potential issues (most likely), would have probably been resolved by then, thus not affecting schedule.

Then why ask the question?

Because I don't know...

And nobody on here would really know this soon after the launch.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Stan Black on 08/12/2012 08:57 AM
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/order_document_list_info/show?notificationId=3976097
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 08/12/2012 11:16 PM
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/order_document_list_info/show?notificationId=3976097

Can someone translate? Thanks!
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 08/13/2012 03:22 PM
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/order_document_list_info/show?notificationId=3976097

Can someone translate? Thanks!

This is a government tender for ongoing support of the MLM-Proton launch.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Stan Black on 09/03/2012 11:40 AM
Quote
Building MLM Under Way at Khrunichev
03.09.2012
The Khrunichev Space Centre continue to build the flight version of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) for the International Space Station. As of today, Khrunichev have mounted the ESA Robotic Arm, have laid down the onboard harness, have tested the thermal control system and the pneumatic/hydraulic systems, and are mating and tuning the solar panels. The MLM will be passed over to the Energia Corporation (presumably before the end of this year) for system-level tests as soon as the fabrication, assembly and integration of the flight article have been completed.

http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=780
(only when set to English)

Quote
После завершения работ по изготовлению и сборке летного изделия, многофункциональный лабораторный модуль будет передан в РКК «Энергия» (октябрь 2012 года) для дальнейших комплексных испытаний.

http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2588
(only when set to Russian)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Frandolf on 09/03/2012 01:52 PM
Second quote is a bit more specific about the handover to Energija (Oktober 2012). So, it's more sooner than later  ;)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Dappa on 09/03/2012 02:11 PM
Quote
Building MLM Under Way at Khrunichev
03.09.2012
The Khrunichev Space Centre continue to build the flight version of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) for the International Space Station. As of today, Khrunichev have mounted the ESA Robotic Arm, have laid down the onboard harness, have tested the thermal control system and the pneumatic/hydraulic systems, and are mating and tuning the solar panels. The MLM will be passed over to the Energia Corporation (presumably before the end of this year) for system-level tests as soon as the fabrication, assembly and integration of the flight article have been completed.

http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=780
(only when set to English)

Quote
После завершения работ по изготовлению и сборке летного изделия, многофункциональный лабораторный модуль будет передан в РКК «Энергия» (октябрь 2012 года) для дальнейших комплексных испытаний.

http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2588
(only when set to Russian)
The images that came with the news  release.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 09/03/2012 02:26 PM
An October handover implies a launch around March of 2014.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 09/03/2012 05:10 PM
An October handover implies a launch around March of 2014.


not sooner?

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: anik on 09/03/2012 07:11 PM
not sooner?

I was told that the head of Roskosmos Vladimir Popovkin said to launch MLM in December 2013 even if the module will be without some equipment, in other words - empty.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 09/03/2012 08:53 PM
not sooner?

I was told that the head of Roskosmos Vladimir Popovkin said to launch MLM in December 2013 even if the module will be without some equipment, in other words - empty.
Does that mean hardware is being deleted from MLM or that it will be outfitted on orbit?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 09/03/2012 09:08 PM
not sooner?

I was told that the head of Roskosmos Vladimir Popovkin said to launch MLM in December 2013 even if the module will be without some equipment, in other words - empty.

Wow,

Solar power Panels are large.  They cut out the power modules and install panels on MLM or is this the normal size?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: anik on 09/04/2012 05:37 AM
Does that mean hardware is being deleted from MLM or that it will be outfitted on orbit?

Outfitting on orbit as it was with some other Russian modules (Base Block of Mir station, for example).
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: The man in the can on 09/05/2012 05:58 PM
Wow,

Solar power Panels are large.  They cut out the power modules and install panels on MLM or is this the normal size?

They look similar to those of Zarya to me, except they aren't fully deployed on those pictures.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: The man in the can on 09/05/2012 06:13 PM
Wow,

Solar power Panels are large.  They cut out the power modules and install panels on MLM or is this the normal size?

They look similar to those of Zarya to me, except they aren't fully deployed on those pictures.

A picture of Zarya for comparisons
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: BrightLight on 09/05/2012 06:13 PM
It looks like MIR Mark II attached to Unity
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: The man in the can on 09/05/2012 06:24 PM
It looks like MIR Mark II attached to Unity

This title would be more appropriate for Zvezda since it was the backup for Mir and was the main module for the Mir 2 project. Zarya and MLM are from a different design base on the functional cargo block of the TKS spacecraft. The actual MLM was build as a backup for Zarya if my memory is right.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 09/17/2012 02:57 PM
The FGB panels were required to be relatively short, so that when folded, they would not impinge on the radiators. On the other hand, the MLM panels are required to be very long, as they are located "under" most of ISS, and in some attitudes, would be blocked by the Russian segment.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: The man in the can on 09/17/2012 06:39 PM
The FGB panels were required to be relatively short, so that when folded, they would not impinge on the radiators. On the other hand, the MLM panels are required to be very long, as they are located "under" most of ISS, and in some attitudes, would be blocked by the Russian segment.
I count the same number of sections in the solar panel of the FGB and those of MLM. I'm not sure those sections have the same size but it look so. In the pictures of the MLM posted by Dappa, they look longer because the solar panel are fully deploy in lenght but not in width. In the last two pictures you can see that except for the first section, the other are still folded in width. I'm not an expert, but It look to me that the MLM's solar panels are similar to those of the FGB.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/19/2012 02:38 PM
Through several emails and a little help from Mr. Zak, Khrunichev tentatively expects to transfer MLM to RSC Energia for final outfitting work sometime in the early November to mid December 2012 timeframe. Khrunichev says that they are currently on track to ship well before the New Year Holiday. MLM construction and integration at Khrunichev is expected to be completed by mid to late October.

That is all I have. If someone can get more information (via ROSCOSMOS) to add to the upcoming schedule of events, please do so.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: owais.usmani on 09/21/2012 10:56 AM
Can anybody explain what exactly this outfitting consists of, that requires moving of whole module from Khrunichev to Energia?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: anik on 09/24/2012 09:29 AM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2599

Installation of fairing on MLM module was performed on September 21st. Next tasks are a weighing process and pressure tests.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 09/24/2012 11:06 AM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2599

Installation of fairing on MLM module was performed on September 21st. Next tasks are a weighing process and pressure tests.

To elaborate: this was a fit-check to check mechanical and electrical connections. It will be quite a few months before we see this fairing being attached for "the real thing" (meaning: launch)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: robertross on 09/24/2012 03:17 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2599

Installation of fairing on MLM module was performed on September 21st. Next tasks are a weighing process and pressure tests.

To elaborate: this was a fit-check to check mechanical and electrical connections. It will be quite a few months before we see this fairing being attached for "the real thing" (meaning: launch)

Yeah, I was starting to think along those lines until I saw the massive exposed bolt heads on the PLF and realize it was just for use on the ground.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: dbooker on 09/24/2012 04:50 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2599 (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2599)

Installation of fairing on MLM module was performed on September 21st. Next tasks are a weighing process and pressure tests.

Interesting.  Anyone else note that the docking port that is facing the ceiling looks like it is a LIDS and not a standard drogue and probe port.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Dappa on 09/24/2012 05:01 PM
Interesting.  Anyone else note that the docking port that is facing the ceiling looks like it is a LIDS and not a standard drogue and probe port.
That's the port for the equipment airlock, that's currently stowed on MRM-1.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 09/24/2012 06:15 PM
Interesting.  Anyone else note that the docking port that is facing the ceiling looks like it is a LIDS and not a standard drogue and probe port.
That's the port for the equipment airlock, that's currently stowed on MRM-1.

The exact nature of the interface with the airlock is a bit of a mystery.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 09/24/2012 06:16 PM
The FGB panels were required to be relatively short, so that when folded, they would not impinge on the radiators. On the other hand, the MLM panels are required to be very long, as they are located "under" most of ISS, and in some attitudes, would be blocked by the Russian segment.
I count the same number of sections in the solar panel of the FGB and those of MLM. I'm not sure those sections have the same size but it look so. In the pictures of the MLM posted by Dappa, they look longer because the solar panel are fully deploy in lenght but not in width. In the last two pictures you can see that except for the first section, the other are still folded in width. I'm not an expert, but It look to me that the MLM's solar panels are similar to those of the FGB.

You are correct. I have gone back to examine the engineering drawings of the MLM panels, and they are identical to FGB. In other words, Khrunichev threw out the requirements and went with using the backup flight hardware from FGB, which is now going on 15 years old.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 09/24/2012 06:48 PM
The FGB panels were required to be relatively short, so that when folded, they would not impinge on the radiators. On the other hand, the MLM panels are required to be very long, as they are located "under" most of ISS, and in some attitudes, would be blocked by the Russian segment.
I count the same number of sections in the solar panel of the FGB and those of MLM. I'm not sure those sections have the same size but it look so. In the pictures of the MLM posted by Dappa, they look longer because the solar panel are fully deploy in lenght but not in width. In the last two pictures you can see that except for the first section, the other are still folded in width. I'm not an expert, but It look to me that the MLM's solar panels are similar to those of the FGB.

You are correct. I have gone back to examine the engineering drawings of the MLM panels, and they are identical to FGB. In other words, Khrunichev threw out the requirements and went with using the backup flight hardware from FGB, which is now going on 15 years old.

They're using photovoltaic cells manufactured fifteen years ago?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 09/25/2012 06:03 AM
The FGB panels were required to be relatively short, so that when folded, they would not impinge on the radiators. On the other hand, the MLM panels are required to be very long, as they are located "under" most of ISS, and in some attitudes, would be blocked by the Russian segment.
I count the same number of sections in the solar panel of the FGB and those of MLM. I'm not sure those sections have the same size but it look so. In the pictures of the MLM posted by Dappa, they look longer because the solar panel are fully deploy in lenght but not in width. In the last two pictures you can see that except for the first section, the other are still folded in width. I'm not an expert, but It look to me that the MLM's solar panels are similar to those of the FGB.

You are correct. I have gone back to examine the engineering drawings of the MLM panels, and they are identical to FGB. In other words, Khrunichev threw out the requirements and went with using the backup flight hardware from FGB, which is now going on 15 years old.

They're using photovoltaic cells manufactured fifteen years ago?

No, according to my ESA source the solar arrays are new re-builds.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 09/25/2012 02:59 PM
The FGB panels were required to be relatively short, so that when folded, they would not impinge on the radiators. On the other hand, the MLM panels are required to be very long, as they are located "under" most of ISS, and in some attitudes, would be blocked by the Russian segment.
I count the same number of sections in the solar panel of the FGB and those of MLM. I'm not sure those sections have the same size but it look so. In the pictures of the MLM posted by Dappa, they look longer because the solar panel are fully deploy in lenght but not in width. In the last two pictures you can see that except for the first section, the other are still folded in width. I'm not an expert, but It look to me that the MLM's solar panels are similar to those of the FGB.

You are correct. I have gone back to examine the engineering drawings of the MLM panels, and they are identical to FGB. In other words, Khrunichev threw out the requirements and went with using the backup flight hardware from FGB, which is now going on 15 years old.

They're using photovoltaic cells manufactured fifteen years ago?

No, according to my ESA source the solar arrays are new re-builds.
Awesome. :) Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 10/01/2012 11:17 PM
Anik posted these on the NK forum, so here they are, some nice graphics of the ERA moving things around.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 10/02/2012 07:00 AM
Anik posted these on the NK forum, so here they are, some nice graphics of the ERA moving things around.


Those are old and identical to images in a presentation provided by Chris on L2. See this thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21610.msg589363#msg589363)
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 10/09/2012 08:54 PM
Here is an excellent presentation by RSC Energia about the future of the Russian segment, including overviews of MRM-1.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: manboy on 10/09/2012 10:20 PM
Any standard probe and cone docking system can be converted from male to female or vice versa simply by switching out the specific male/female docking hardware. Same with the hybrid system...

Also, an APAS-89 or later can be converted to hybrid by switching out the docking petals for a probe or cone.
Do you have a source for this?

And do we know if Hybrid can be converted to IDSS?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 10/09/2012 10:51 PM
Any standard probe and cone docking system can be converted from male to female or vice versa simply by switching out the specific male/female docking hardware. Same with the hybrid system...

Also, an APAS-89 or later can be converted to hybrid by switching out the docking petals for a probe or cone.
Do you have a source for this?

And do we know if Hybrid can be converted to IDSS?

Back in the days before the Zvezda module was launched, NASA began development of the ICM, just in case Zvezda was never finished. ICM would link to FGB via APAS, but FGB was launched with a hybrid male adapter to dock with Zvezda. Therefore, Energia developed a "pressure dome" that would cover the aft docking port, and allow the crew inside the FGB to convert the aft hybrid docking adapter into APAS-89.

I would assume that this conversion is also possible for IDSS, or for current Chinese systems to convert to IDSS.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 10/22/2012 10:16 AM
Roscosmos published the call for a proposition for NEM-1 module.

Quote
22.10.2012 / 11:56   Роскосмос выделит 15 млрд руб на научно-энергетический модуль для МКС


      Роскосмос объявил конкурс на создание научно-энергетического модуля (НЭМ-1) для российского сегмента Международной космической станции, максимальная сумма контракта - 15,15 миллиарда рублей, работы должны быть закончены до конца ноября 2015 года, говорится в материалах тендера, размещенных на сайте госзакупок.
      Ранее сообщалось, что российская сторона планирует создать для МКС два модуля НЭМ-1 и НЭМ-2, их запуски планировались на 2014 и 2015 годы соответственно.
      Согласно техническому заданию, опубликованному на сайте госзакупок, срок службы модуля должен составлять не менее 17 лет, из которых два года - срок хранения и подготовки к запуску, а 15 лет - срок работы в составе российского сегмента МКС.
      Внутри модуля НЭМ-1 должно быть 30 кубометров свободного пространства, которые может использовать экипаж. В модуле будут размещаться универсальные стойки медицинского оборудования, тренажеры и средства профилактики неблагоприятных факторов космического полета, а также другие приборы и агрегаты.
      Солнечные батареи модуля должны генерировать электроэнергию среднегодовой мощностью не менее 18 киловатт в начале эксплуатации.
      Заявки на конкурс должны быть представлены до 20 ноября, победители тендера будут объявлены после 29 ноября. Размер обеспечения исполнения контракта - 12,12 миллиарда рублей, передает РИА Новости.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: DmitryP on 10/22/2012 10:50 AM
Roscosmos published the call for a proposition for NEM-1 module.     

Key points in English:

Estimated contract size - 15.15 bln. rubles (aproximately 483 mln. USD at current exchange rate)
Contract completion - end of November, 2015 (earlier plans called for NEM-1 launch in 2014).
Esimated life time for the module - 17 years, including 2 years of storage and launch preparation and 15 years at ISS
At least 30 cubic meters of usable space
Possibility to install racks for medical experiments, exercise equipment and other equipment.
Sollar arrays to generate at least 18 kWt of powet (initially).   
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 10/23/2012 10:05 AM
Roscosmos published the call for a proposition for NEM-1 module.

Quote
22.10.2012 / 11:56   Роскосмос выделит 15 млрд руб на научно-энергетический модуль для МКС


      Роскосмос объявил конкурс на создание научно-энергетического модуля (НЭМ-1) для российского сегмента Международной космической станции, максимальная сумма контракта - 15,15 миллиарда рублей, работы должны быть закончены до конца ноября 2015 года, говорится в материалах тендера, размещенных на сайте госзакупок.
      Ранее сообщалось, что российская сторона планирует создать для МКС два модуля НЭМ-1 и НЭМ-2, их запуски планировались на 2014 и 2015 годы соответственно.
      Согласно техническому заданию, опубликованному на сайте госзакупок, срок службы модуля должен составлять не менее 17 лет, из которых два года - срок хранения и подготовки к запуску, а 15 лет - срок работы в составе российского сегмента МКС.
      Внутри модуля НЭМ-1 должно быть 30 кубометров свободного пространства, которые может использовать экипаж. В модуле будут размещаться универсальные стойки медицинского оборудования, тренажеры и средства профилактики неблагоприятных факторов космического полета, а также другие приборы и агрегаты.
      Солнечные батареи модуля должны генерировать электроэнергию среднегодовой мощностью не менее 18 киловатт в начале эксплуатации.
      Заявки на конкурс должны быть представлены до 20 ноября, победители тендера будут объявлены после 29 ноября. Размер обеспечения исполнения контракта - 12,12 миллиарда рублей, передает РИА Новости.
That is Science Power Module - 1 right?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: aquarius on 10/23/2012 10:09 AM
Roscosmos published the call for a proposition for NEM-1 module.

Quote
22.10.2012 / 11:56   Роскосмос выделит 15 млрд руб на научно-энергетический модуль для МКС


      Роскосмос объявил конкурс на создание научно-энергетического модуля (НЭМ-1) для российского сегмента Международной космической станции, максимальная сумма контракта - 15,15 миллиарда рублей, работы должны быть закончены до конца ноября 2015 года, говорится в материалах тендера, размещенных на сайте госзакупок.
      Ранее сообщалось, что российская сторона планирует создать для МКС два модуля НЭМ-1 и НЭМ-2, их запуски планировались на 2014 и 2015 годы соответственно.
      Согласно техническому заданию, опубликованному на сайте госзакупок, срок службы модуля должен составлять не менее 17 лет, из которых два года - срок хранения и подготовки к запуску, а 15 лет - срок работы в составе российского сегмента МКС.
      Внутри модуля НЭМ-1 должно быть 30 кубометров свободного пространства, которые может использовать экипаж. В модуле будут размещаться универсальные стойки медицинского оборудования, тренажеры и средства профилактики неблагоприятных факторов космического полета, а также другие приборы и агрегаты.
      Солнечные батареи модуля должны генерировать электроэнергию среднегодовой мощностью не менее 18 киловатт в начале эксплуатации.
      Заявки на конкурс должны быть представлены до 20 ноября, победители тендера будут объявлены после 29 ноября. Размер обеспечения исполнения контракта - 12,12 миллиарда рублей, передает РИА Новости.
That is Science Power Module - 1 right?

That's right.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: PeterAlt on 10/23/2012 09:56 PM
Roscosmos published the call for a proposition for NEM-1 module.

Quote
22.10.2012 / 11:56   Роскосмос выделит 15 млрд руб на научно-энергетический модуль для МКС


      Роскосмос объявил конкурс на создание научно-энергетического модуля (НЭМ-1) для российского сегмента Международной космической станции, максимальная сумма контракта - 15,15 миллиарда рублей, работы должны быть закончены до конца ноября 2015 года, говорится в материалах тендера, размещенных на сайте госзакупок.
      Ранее сообщалось, что российская сторона планирует создать для МКС два модуля НЭМ-1 и НЭМ-2, их запуски планировались на 2014 и 2015 годы соответственно.
      Согласно техническому заданию, опубликованному на сайте госзакупок, срок службы модуля должен составлять не менее 17 лет, из которых два года - срок хранения и подготовки к запуску, а 15 лет - срок работы в составе российского сегмента МКС.
      Внутри модуля НЭМ-1 должно быть 30 кубометров свободного пространства, которые может использовать экипаж. В модуле будут размещаться универсальные стойки медицинского оборудования, тренажеры и средства профилактики неблагоприятных факторов космического полета, а также другие приборы и агрегаты.
      Солнечные батареи модуля должны генерировать электроэнергию среднегодовой мощностью не менее 18 киловатт в начале эксплуатации.
      Заявки на конкурс должны быть представлены до 20 ноября, победители тендера будут объявлены после 29 ноября. Размер обеспечения исполнения контракта - 12,12 миллиарда рублей, передает РИА Новости.
That is Science Power Module - 1 right?

That's right.

Is this for engineering or construction, or both? If for construction, did we miss the contract for engineering? If so, when was the engineering contract let?
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Prober on 10/24/2012 12:35 AM
Any standard probe and cone docking system can be converted from male to female or vice versa simply by switching out the specific male/female docking hardware. Same with the hybrid system...

Also, an APAS-89 or later can be converted to hybrid by switching out the docking petals for a probe or cone.
Do you have a source for this?

And do we know if Hybrid can be converted to IDSS?

Back in the days before the Zvezda module was launched, NASA began development of the ICM, just in case Zvezda was never finished. ICM would link to FGB via APAS, but FGB was launched with a hybrid male adapter to dock with Zvezda. Therefore, Energia developed a "pressure dome" that would cover the aft docking port, and allow the crew inside the FGB to convert the aft hybrid docking adapter into APAS-89.

I would assume that this conversion is also possible for IDSS, or for current Chinese systems to convert to IDSS.


nyet to any Chinese system on the ISS.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/09/2012 05:47 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55 (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55) was recently updated. Transfer of MLM to RSC Energia appears to have been deferred to Early 2013. MLM transfer was originally expected around December 2012.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 11/09/2012 07:16 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55 (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55) was recently updated. Transfer of MLM to RSC Energia appears to have been deferred to Early 2013. MLM transfer was originally expected around December 2012.
No surprise. I was informed of yet another expected launch delay by a DutchSpace (ERA contractor) source last weekend. Could not put it on here as it could not be confirmed by my NLR source. But this public release from Khrunichev is confirmation enough. The DutchSpace source had no firm estimate for the new launch date, but he made it clear that the official launchdate of december 2013 is as good as gone. I'll see what my NLR source can come up with.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/09/2012 07:44 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55 (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55) was recently updated. Transfer of MLM to RSC Energia appears to have been deferred to Early 2013. MLM transfer was originally expected around December 2012.
No surprise. I was informed of yet another expected launch delay by a DutchSpace (ERA contractor) source last weekend. Could not put it on here as it could not be confirmed by my NLR source. But this public release from Khrunichev is confirmation enough. The DutchSpace source had no firm estimate for the new launch date, but he made it clear that the official launchdate of december 2013 is as good as gone. I'll see what my NLR source can come up with.
Define NLR in your statement.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 11/10/2012 10:29 AM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55 (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55) was recently updated. Transfer of MLM to RSC Energia appears to have been deferred to Early 2013. MLM transfer was originally expected around December 2012.
No surprise. I was informed of yet another expected launch delay by a DutchSpace (ERA contractor) source last weekend. Could not put it on here as it could not be confirmed by my NLR source. But this public release from Khrunichev is confirmation enough. The DutchSpace source had no firm estimate for the new launch date, but he made it clear that the official launchdate of december 2013 is as good as gone. I'll see what my NLR source can come up with.
Define NLR in your statement.
NLR is the "Nationaal Lucht- en Ruimtevaartlaboratorium". Or: "Dutch National Aerospace Laboratory" for all you English speaking folks. Several NLR people were involved in the development of the MPTE (Mission Preparation and Training Equipment) for the European Robotic Arm (ERA). They are still involved with ERA today and are informed of any delay to ERA's launch. With ERA being launched mounted on the outside of the MLM it means that any delay they are informed of means a delay of the MLM launch.

I get my information regarding MLM from 3 primary sources: a contact at ESA, several contacts at NLR and (since recently) two contacts at DutchSpace (the ERA primary contractor). If any two of those say the same thing about a delay, I think it's safe to put that information on here. The latest notice of a looming delay was handed to me by my new DutchSpace contacts. Since neither my ESA contact, nor my NLR contacts were unable to confirm right-away, I decided to hold the information. But then this Khrunicev update came out, basically confirming what I had been told. No need to hold back on the information than, as it is already out there thru a public source.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/12/2012 08:12 PM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55 (http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=55) was recently updated. Transfer of MLM to RSC Energia appears to have been deferred to Early 2013. MLM transfer was originally expected around December 2012.
No surprise. I was informed of yet another expected launch delay by a DutchSpace (ERA contractor) source last weekend. Could not put it on here as it could not be confirmed by my NLR source. But this public release from Khrunichev is confirmation enough. The DutchSpace source had no firm estimate for the new launch date, but he made it clear that the official launchdate of december 2013 is as good as gone. I'll see what my NLR source can come up with.
Define NLR in your statement.
NLR is the "Nationaal Lucht- en Ruimtevaartlaboratorium". Or: "Dutch National Aerospace Laboratory" for all you English speaking folks. Several NLR people were involved in the development of the MPTE (Mission Preparation and Training Equipment) for the European Robotic Arm (ERA). They are still involved with ERA today and are informed of any delay to ERA's launch. With ERA being launched mounted on the outside of the MLM it means that any delay they are informed of means a delay of the MLM launch.

I get my information regarding MLM from 3 primary sources: a contact at ESA, several contacts at NLR and (since recently) two contacts at DutchSpace (the ERA primary contractor). If any two of those say the same thing about a delay, I think it's safe to put that information on here. The latest notice of a looming delay was handed to me by my new DutchSpace contacts. Since neither my ESA contact, nor my NLR contacts were unable to confirm right-away, I decided to hold the information. But then this Khrunicev update came out, basically confirming what I had been told. No need to hold back on the information than, as it is already out there thru a public source.
I knew that, I just forgot to put the two together in my mind. Brief memory lapse over for now.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Danderman on 11/22/2012 04:05 PM
FWIW, the Russian launch manifest put together by Anik for 2014 shows this:

November 15 – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur 31/6

This means that the Node module goes up about one year after the current schedule for MLM.  This isn't to say that the Node module schedule can't slip, but it sort of bounds the delays that the Russians anticipate for the MLM.

Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: asmi on 11/26/2012 03:27 PM
This means that the Node module goes up about one year after the current schedule for MLM.  This isn't to say that the Node module schedule can't slip, but it sort of bounds the delays that the Russians anticipate for the MLM.
I remember I've heard somewhere Mr. Popovkin had told that MLM is going at the end of 2013 regardless of the state it will be (i.e. some equipment that is supposed to be installed there might not present).
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 11/26/2012 07:22 PM
This means that the Node module goes up about one year after the current schedule for MLM.  This isn't to say that the Node module schedule can't slip, but it sort of bounds the delays that the Russians anticipate for the MLM.
I remember I've heard somewhere Mr. Popovkin had told that MLM is going at the end of 2013 regardless of the state it will be (i.e. some equipment that is supposed to be installed there might not present).
In part thanks to ESA now leaning heavily on Roscosmos. From what I heard from two guys at DutchSpace it was ESA that told the Russians point blank that they were 'fed up' with the constant delays to MLM (and thus the launch of ERA). They also relayed the 'threat' from the Dutch government to cut funding for ERA per January 1st, 2014. After that date, the Russians will bear all the financial burden for ERA. That has already resulted in several pleas from the Russians to guarantee extended use of Dutch ERA expertise, beyond January 1st, 2014. So far, the Dutch government has refused to succumb to that plea. But, I reckon that a money-jar will be found some how to cover the period until the Russians can fully take over ERA operations.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Space Pete on 12/06/2012 03:33 PM
Interesting tidbit from the recent announcement of the contract for the NEM-1 construction:

"In March 2014 Russia plans to launch multipurpose laboratory module "Nauka"(Science) (MLM) for the ISS."

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29307
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 12/07/2012 06:29 AM
http://www.khrunichev.ru/main.php?id=1&nid=2679

MLM has departed from Khrunichev to Energia yesterday.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: woods170 on 12/07/2012 08:35 AM
Interesting tidbit from the recent announcement of the contract for the NEM-1 construction:

"In March 2014 Russia plans to launch multipurpose laboratory module "Nauka"(Science) (MLM) for the ISS."

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29307

My NLR contact still has to confirm this delay (I asked him about nearly a month ago, but the guy is very busy), but this is another indicator that December 2013 is gone as the planned launchdate.

Edit: had an e-mail correspondance with yet another contact at Dutchspace. They do ERA planning there. The december 2013 date for MLM launch, with crew operations in april 2014, are still baselined at Dutchspace. They have not heard anything about a launch delay. However, the contact indicated that they have had so many launch delays now that any additional delays would not surprise him whatsoever.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 12/14/2012 12:07 PM
MLM has arrived to RSC Energia.

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/news_12-14.html
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 12/14/2012 01:44 PM
very good pics

Notice the many thrusters.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/14/2012 01:50 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Lars_J on 12/14/2012 04:27 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Do you mean nadir as in how it is in the picture, or nadir as it will be on ISS?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/14/2012 04:50 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Do you mean nadir as in how it is in the picture, or nadir as it will be on ISS?
on ISS
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 12/14/2012 05:11 PM
 It looks like the tunnel that will hold the active docking unit has been extended; the end with the red cylinder that will be attached to the Proton. Is this interstage the same length as with previous T.K.S. based?

 Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/14/2012 05:22 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/14/2012 05:23 PM
MLM has arrived to RSC Energia.

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/news_12-14.html

This starts the 18 month countdown towards launch.

Things could move more quickly, but that would be a departure from past practice.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/14/2012 05:27 PM
 Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 12/14/2012 05:32 PM
This starts the 18 month countdown towards launch. Things could move more quickly, but that would be a departure from past practice

Again, Roskosmos said that MLM must be launched in December 2013 even if it will be empty. So there are not 18 months. MLM will be delivered to Baikonur in late summer.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/14/2012 05:58 PM
This starts the 18 month countdown towards launch. Things could move more quickly, but that would be a departure from past practice

Again, Roskosmos said that MLM must be launched in December 2013 even if it will be empty. So there are not 18 months. MLM will be delivered to Baikonur in late summer.

Yes, we are aware of that Anik. However, working towards a "cast-in-concrete" deadline is like asking for trouble. Even when the Russians are working on a type of module they have plenty of experience with.
Based on some of the indicators we have seen over the past month, I still expect this launch to slip into 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 12/14/2012 07:11 PM
Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.


It has additional ones
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/14/2012 10:14 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

AFAIK MLM Nadir and UM are to both carry IDSS compatible/convertible docking system rings. UM is to have six docking interfaces complying to IDSS diameter and systems interface requirements. It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/14/2012 10:21 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

anik's ISS schedule shows that Progress M-22M, Soyuz TMA-12M, and Progress M-24M will all dock to MLM Nadir - meaning it will need to have a docking ring compatible with the probe & drogue system. While Hybrid ports do have a drogue, they do not have a docking ring compatible with the probe & drogue system.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/14/2012 11:44 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

anik's ISS schedule shows that Progress M-22M, Soyuz TMA-12M, and Progress M-24M will all dock to MLM Nadir - meaning it will need to have a docking ring compatible with the probe & drogue system. While Hybrid ports do have a drogue, they do not have a docking ring compatible with the probe & drogue system.

MLM Nadir is supposed to carry a hybrid hybrid docking adapter, compatible with both hybrid and probe/cone. In the hybrid mode, part of the 1100 mm access tunnel is blocked.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/14/2012 11:45 PM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

AFAIK MLM Nadir and UM are to both carry IDSS compatible/convertible docking system rings. UM is to have six docking interfaces complying to IDSS diameter and systems interface requirements. It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.

The "docking system ring" you describe the is the same as used by Hybrid, APAS-89/85 and most other 21st century docking systems; probably the Chinese rings are the same.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/14/2012 11:49 PM
Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.


It has additional ones

Where?    ???
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 12/15/2012 05:36 AM
Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.
Do you have more information on this?

Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

AFAIK MLM Nadir and UM are to both carry IDSS compatible/convertible docking system rings. UM is to have six docking interfaces complying to IDSS diameter and systems interface requirements. It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.
IDSS appears to have been abandoned. See here (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28976.msg979073#msg979073).
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 12/15/2012 07:13 AM
Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.


It has additional ones

Where?    ???

What are the red covered things in a 2x3 clusters?

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-07.jpg
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-11.jpg
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 12/15/2012 06:42 PM
Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

- MLM forward has some not close specified APAS derivate for airlock - clear.

- MLM zenith should have Active Hybrid probe for dock to SM-Passive Hybrid drogue. But I don’t see any active probe at zenith port of MLM at any photos under plastic cover. Is it not installed yet, or there is some change?
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-19.jpg
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/15/2012 06:51 PM
Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.


It has additional ones

Where?    ???

What are the red covered things in a 2x3 clusters?

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-07.jpg
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-11.jpg
If you zoom in real close you can just make out conical shaped engine nozzles (bells) equal in dimensions to the nearby set of thrusters that are at a diagonal, so they must be a group of thrusters meant for controlling the function of the roll axis which is exactly a planned part of MLM's mission function for ISS RS. AFAIK, there should be four of these parallel groups, two on each side containing the solar arrays.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/15/2012 07:00 PM
Regarding MLM docking adaptors...
- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.
- MLM forward has some not close specified APAS derivate for airlock - clear.
- MLM zenith should have Active Hybrid probe for dock to SM-Passive Hybrid drogue. But I don’t see any active probe at zenith port of MLM at any photos under plastic cover. Is it not installed yet, or there is some change?
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-19.jpg
MLM Nadir is launching an upgraded APAS rings that is updated to comply with IDSS and its ring petals are to launch stored on board for future use.
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/15/2012 08:35 PM
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.

Huh?

MLM Zenith is supposed to be docked permanently to SM Nadir, which is already passive-hybrid. So I fail to see the point in modifying MLM Zenith at all, since it would also require modifying SM Nadir. It's pointless because there's no need to ever undock MLM again.
Yes, it will most likely remain docked permanently to SM Nadir, but according to past information is capable of being converted should it be decided keep the module after ISS EOM. This is the way I understand it since UM is expected to be used on next mission, but I'm not sure if it will be the same UM though.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/16/2012 10:56 AM
- MLM zenith should have Active Hybrid probe for dock to SM-Passive Hybrid drogue. But I don’t see any active probe at zenith port of MLM at any photos under plastic cover. Is it not installed yet, or there is some change?
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-19.jpg

The probe is removable from the hatch itself, so what you are seeing in that picture is the hatch without the probe installed.

In the attached images, you can see a hatch of the same type aboard the ISS with its probe removed, and also a picture of the removed probe assembly.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 12/16/2012 02:09 PM
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.

Huh?

MLM Zenith is supposed to be docked permanently to SM Nadir, which is already passive-hybrid. So I fail to see the point in modifying MLM Zenith at all, since it would also require modifying SM Nadir. It's pointless because there's no need to ever undock MLM again.
The Russians plan to undock MLM from the SM when the ISS gets de-orbited.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 12/16/2012 03:29 PM
- MLM zenith should have Active Hybrid probe for dock to SM-Passive Hybrid drogue. But I don’t see any active probe at zenith port of MLM at any photos under plastic cover. Is it not installed yet, or there is some change?
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-19.jpg

The probe is removable from the hatch itself, so what you are seeing in that picture is the hatch without the probe installed.

In the attached images, you can see a hatch of the same type aboard the ISS with its probe removed, and also a picture of the removed probe assembly.
The same thing was done with Zvezda zenith (except with a passive assembly).
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 12/16/2012 03:48 PM
MLM Nadir is launching an upgraded APAS rings that is updated to comply with IDSS and its ring petals are to launch stored on board for future use.
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.
No. MLM Nadir is docking assembly probe-cone + hybrid. First, it will take probes-cones Progress and Soyuz, then hybrid UM (node ​​module).
The possibility of joining with APAS, IDSS or NDS can be done by docking adater, like APAS-NDS.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/16/2012 07:56 PM
MLM Nadir is launching an upgraded APAS rings that is updated to comply with IDSS and its ring petals are to launch stored on board for future use.
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.
No. MLM Nadir is docking assembly probe-cone + hybrid. First, it will take probes-cones Progress and Soyuz, then hybrid UM (node ​​module).
The possibility of joining with APAS, IDSS or NDS can be done by docking adater, like APAS-NDS.
Yes, but the ring also contains the attachment locations for the APAS hardware and petals.
If you have some newer information than I have then please attach it so I may see it. Mine dates back to Q1 2010.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 12/16/2012 09:57 PM
MLM Nadir is launching an upgraded APAS rings that is updated to comply with IDSS and its ring petals are to launch stored on board for future use.
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.
No. MLM Nadir is docking assembly probe-cone + hybrid. First, it will take probes-cones Progress and Soyuz, then hybrid UM (node ​​module).
The possibility of joining with APAS, IDSS or NDS can be done by docking adater, like APAS-NDS.
Yes, but the ring also contains the attachment locations for the APAS hardware and petals.
If you have some newer information than I have then please attach it so I may see it. Mine dates back to Q1 2010.

Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

AFAIK MLM Nadir and UM are to both carry IDSS compatible/convertible docking system rings. UM is to have six docking interfaces complying to IDSS diameter and systems interface requirements. It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.
IDSS appears to have been abandoned. See here (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28976.msg979073#msg979073).
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/16/2012 10:22 PM
MLM Nadir is launching an upgraded APAS rings that is updated to comply with IDSS and its ring petals are to launch stored on board for future use.
I hear that MLM Zenith is capable of being upgraded to support IDSS in the future but that would require future work by cosmonauts at later date.
No. MLM Nadir is docking assembly probe-cone + hybrid. First, it will take probes-cones Progress and Soyuz, then hybrid UM (node ​​module).
The possibility of joining with APAS, IDSS or NDS can be done by docking adater, like APAS-NDS.
Yes, but the ring also contains the attachment locations for the APAS hardware and petals.
If you have some newer information than I have then please attach it so I may see it. Mine dates back to Q1 2010.

Oddly, the Nadir port appears to by a hybrid type - when it was supposed to be a traditional drogue.

Theoretically, it's going to be hybrid hybrid, ie able to accommodate both hybrid and probe and cone systems.

However, since the only vehicle that will likely dock with it is the Node module, it is possible that a plan to equip both with simple hybrid may emerge.

AFAIK MLM Nadir and UM are to both carry IDSS compatible/convertible docking system rings. UM is to have six docking interfaces complying to IDSS diameter and systems interface requirements. It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.
IDSS appears to have been abandoned. See here (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28976.msg979073#msg979073).
IDSS is a standardized system, which is not officially dead since ISS MCB is still developing the standard even during the most recent meetings.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/17/2012 01:40 AM
Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?

Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.


It has additional ones

Where?    ???

What are the red covered things in a 2x3 clusters?

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-07.jpg
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-11.jpg

Could be small roll control thrusters.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/17/2012 02:18 AM
Those banks of six thrusters are for roll control? Are they an existing model?
Actually, it's 7 thrusters on each side of the node, and 5 thrusters on each side of the forward body, exactly the same as FGB.
It has additional ones
Where?    ???
What are the red covered things in a 2x3 clusters?
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-07.jpg
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2012/im/photo_12-14-11.jpg
Could be small roll control thrusters.
I already mentioned this in a later post. There 4 sets of 2x3 thruster clusters with 2 on each side in the directions of + roll and - roll from what I can tell so far (this does not account for the additional 4 sets in the roll orientation that are located at a diagonal on the zenith and nadir ends of MLM).
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/17/2012 09:40 AM
Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

Is it? The standard drogue and cone docking system used on current Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (SSVP-G4000) features a docking-ring that is considerably smaller in diameter than the docking-ring on the hybrid system (SSVP-M8000). Also, it only holds eight hook&latch assemblies, as opposed to the twelve carried on APAS and hybrid systems. As far as I know the hybrid system features drogue and cone, but in combination with an APAS-89/95-sized docking ring.

So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)
OR
- the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft planned to dock with MLM nadir are equipped with hybrid docking ports, in stead of the standard docking ports.

With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/17/2012 10:33 AM
Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

Is it? The standard drogue and cone docking system used on current Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (SSVP-G4000) features a docking-ring that is considerably smaller in diameter than the docking-ring on the hybrid system (SSVP-M8000). Also, it only holds eight hook&latch assemblies, as opposed to the twelve carried on APAS and hybrid systems. As far as I know the hybrid system features drogue and cone, but in combination with an APAS-89/95-sized docking ring.

So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)
OR
- the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft planned to dock with MLM nadir are equipped with hybrid docking ports, in stead of the standard docking ports.

With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

here is a photo posted last year of the nadir docking ring. not sure of image date though but this image shows evidence that some FGB/2 era hardware has been removed for the MLM conversion. Note SSVP-G4000 interface not completely removed yet. This is most recent picture that i could find without the annoying red remove before encapsulation and flight cover.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 12/17/2012 01:13 PM
So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)

Yes. Nadir MLM port will be able to handle both diameters - standard SSVP and hybrid SSVP-M (APAS ring). It means for Soyuz/Progress spacecraft via standard SSVP and later for Progress M-UM with Nodal Module(UM) via SSVP-M.
Same port will have also UM nadir.

OR
- the Soyuz and Progress spacecraft planned to dock with MLM nadir are equipped with hybrid docking ports, in stead of the standard docking ports.

Negative. According Anik's schedule there is planning also relocation of Soyuz TMA-12M between MLM nadir and Poisk.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/17/2012 02:03 PM
So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)

Yes. Nadir MLM port will be able to handle both diameters - standard SSVP and hybrid SSVP-M (APAS ring). It means for Soyuz/Progress spacecraft via standard SSVP and later for Progress M-UM with Nodal Module(UM) via SSVP-M.
Same port will have also UM nadir.

OK, thanks Raul. One further question: will changing from standard Drogue&Cone (standard SVPP) to hybrid Drogue&Cone (SSVP-M) require (manual) re-configuration by the ISS crew?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 12/17/2012 02:40 PM
OK, thanks Raul. One further question: will changing from standard Drogue&Cone (standard SVPP) to hybrid Drogue&Cone (SSVP-M) require (manual) re-configuration by the ISS crew?
Any reconfiguration would be not necessary.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22914.msg676619#msg676619
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/17/2012 03:38 PM
Regarding MLM docking adaptors... 

- MLM Nadir has Passive Transformed Hybrid adaptor, able to support Active Hybrid & Active Standard Probe spacecraft. It's clear.

Is it? The standard drogue and cone docking system used on current Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (SSVP-G4000) features a docking-ring that is considerably smaller in diameter than the docking-ring on the hybrid system (SSVP-M8000). Also, it only holds eight hook&latch assemblies, as opposed to the twelve carried on APAS and hybrid systems. As far as I know the hybrid system features drogue and cone, but in combination with an APAS-89/95-sized docking ring.

So, either
- the nadir docking port on MLM features a system that can handle both, different diameter, docking-rings (Soyuz size and APAS-89/95 size)

Yes.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/17/2012 03:43 PM
It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.

I have not yet seen Kurs-NA antennas on MLM yet. Also, does this mean that the module will fly with a Kurs-NA passive box, or will it also carry an active Kurs-NA box for docking with ISS?

I have held one of the planned MLM Kurs-cm active antennas in my hand (a short range antenna), so I would be surprised if there were  a change in its active docking system.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 12/17/2012 05:25 PM
It will fly with KURS-NA systems onboard. So we may see different Soyuz/Progress design similar to Mir APAS, but this I have yet to confirm even though I have found animation still of UM with IDSS-APAS Docking systems and New Generation KURS-NA design. I have not seen it recently though.

I have not yet seen Kurs-NA antennas on MLM yet. Also, does this mean that the module will fly with a Kurs-NA passive box, or will it also carry an active Kurs-NA box for docking with ISS?

I have held one of the planned MLM Kurs-cm active antennas in my hand (a short range antenna), so I would be surprised if there were  a change in its active docking system.

I do not completely know but UM is to use it when docks.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 12/21/2012 07:52 AM
With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

My X-ray generator gave such a picture  ;)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 10:08 AM
With all the images of MLM so far showing the nadir port covered with a red cover plate, I have no clue as to what type of docking port it actually holds. The only thing clear to me is the diameter: that clearly is APAS-89/95 size.

My X-ray generator gave such a picture  ;)
I see you used the features on the red cover to outline items underneath. And guess what your "X-ray" picture looks like: a standard SSVP-G4000 interface.
So, what is underneath that red cover is the passive side of a standard drogue and cone docking assembly.
I have an image at home that shows intitial integration of ERA onto MLM some months ago (fit-check). That image also shows part of the nadir docking port, again with a red cover on it. And that image also shows the outlines of the standard SSVP-G4000. I'll post that image later today when I'm back home.

For now it looks like there is NOT a transformed hybrid docking port on MLM nadir. But that still might change during the period at Energia.

Edit: there might be a transformed hybrid docking port after all. See my post directly below.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 10:31 AM
Hmm, looking again at the pictures from the move to Energia I noticed something.

WHY are there apparently two docking-interfaces stacked on top of each other at MLM nadir?

The top one is obviously a SSVP-G4000 interface. It's circumference is a dark grey color.
Underneath is a much lighter colored ring, slightly larger in diameter.
I find this odd, because the port for the scientific airlock shows only one ring, the lighter colored one. The nadir port is very much different. To me it looks like two rings, stacked on top of each other.

Now, what if this "Transformed Hybrid Docking Interface" really means: "An SSVP-G4000 unit stacked on top of an SSVP-M8000 unit"?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 10:47 AM
And to close this out I've added two pictures of Zarya. It covers the docking port in the location that - on MLM - would be the nadir position.

As we know, Zarya has a APAS docking port in that location. And Zarya carries only one ring in that location. That's why I noticed the double-ring appearance on MLM nadir.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/21/2012 11:00 AM
I think you've got it, Woods - there is simply a probe/drogue style (SSVP-G4000) ring stacked atop an APAS (SSVP-M8000) ring. So it's basically just an APAS-to-probe/drogue adapter. When the last probe/cone vehicle departs MLM nadir, it will probably take the adapter with it.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 11:29 AM
I think you've got it, Woods - there is simply a probe/drogue style (SSVP-G4000) ring stacked atop an APAS (SSVP-M8000) ring. So it's basically just an APAS-to-probe/drogue adapter. When the last probe/cone vehicle departs MLM nadir, it will probably take the adapter with it.

Yeah, that sounds logical. Let's assume for a minute here that such last vehicle is a Soyuz or Progress. The adapter would then be discarded of when the orbital module burns up in the atmosphere. However, with the added mass of the adapter the returning vehicle would probably have to use more fuel for the de-orbit burn. Correct?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/21/2012 11:37 AM
However, with the added mass of the adapter the returning vehicle would probably have to use more fuel for the de-orbit burn. Correct?

According to anik's schedule (and assuming the current MLM launch date holds), the last vehicle to depart MLM Nadir prior to UM arrival will be Progress M-24M.

So, with regard increased fuel usage, I would say that you're correct. The adapter may also have an affect on attitude control. I don't know how much fuel margin is available on Progresses post-deorbit burn, or whether the Progress would need to fly with additional fuel (i.e. less dry cargo).

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 12/21/2012 12:09 PM
Much bigger mass has DC-1 Pirs module, which is planned to burn in atmosphere together with Progress M-20M. So such adapter would be not so big problem.

But I think that such adapter would be useful to have it later at Nodal Module, so maybe would be better to relocate it by ERA manipulator, than sent it to atmosphere with Progress. Even when UM will have own adapter, one spare adapter would be useful I think.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 12:40 PM
Much bigger mass has DC-1 Pirs module, which is planned to burn in atmosphere together with Progress M-20M. So such adapter would be not so big problem.

But I think that such adapter would be useful to have it later at Nodal Module, so maybe would be better to relocate it by ERA manipulator, than sent it to atmosphere with Progress. Even when UM will have own adapter, one spare adapter would be useful I think.
Well, the adapter is visible from just about every angle in the pictures from the transfer of MLM to Energia. However, no grapple fixture for ERA (or SSRMS for that matter) is visible on the adapter. So, such a suggested re-location is likely not going to happen.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 12/21/2012 03:50 PM
I twirled viner on my x-ray generator and got a picture docking mechanism before the arrival of the UM (Узловой Модуль) ;)

Well, the adapter is visible from just about every angle in the pictures from the transfer of MLM to Energia. However, no grapple fixture for ERA (or SSRMS for that matter) is visible on the adapter. So, such a suggested re-location is likely not going to happen.
After joining the MLM to the ISS, Multifunction Laboratory Module  will be used for docking of Progress M-22M, Soyuz TMA-12M and another Progress M-24M, which will remove the "Hybrid-SSVP4000 adapter". After that MLM will be 14-15 years attached to the UM. So the ability to disconnect and re-connect the adapter to the MLM is not necessary (as opposed to adapter UM Nadir)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 12/21/2012 03:53 PM
Grapple fixture is really not visible on adapter side. But simple undocking and deorbit of adapter by Progress is not reversible transformation.
I suppose that same transformed hybrid port as at MLM would be also at UM nadir. And this port at UM needs to be reversible transformed (NEM-1 will dock to UM nadir and will be relocated to UM starboard after that).
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 05:41 PM
I twirled viner on my x-ray generator and got a picture docking mechanism before the arrival of the UM (Узловой Модуль) ;)
Ha! That's one fine X-ray generator. Where can I get one?  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/21/2012 05:43 PM
Grapple fixture is really not visible on adapter side. But simple undocking and deorbit of adapter by Progress is not reversible transformation.
I suppose that same transformed hybrid port as at MLM would be also at UM nadir. And this port at UM needs to be reversible transformed (NEM-1 will dock to UM nadir and will be relocated to UM starboard after that).
Well, there is perhaps the possibility that the adapter at UM (node module) will have a grapple fixture for ERA. Who knows...
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/21/2012 06:26 PM
Well, there is perhaps the possibility that the adapter at UM (node module) will have a grapple fixture for ERA. Who knows...

Or it could just simply be relocated via EVA?

Anyway, I've though of something else: As the docking drogue doubles up as the hatch on both the SSVP-G4000 and SSVP-M8000 systems, will the adapter use have its own drogue/hatch, or will it use the drogue/hatch of the hybrid port below it?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 12/21/2012 07:50 PM
Well, there is perhaps the possibility that the adapter at UM (node module) will have a grapple fixture for ERA. Who knows...

Or it could just simply be relocated via EVA?

Anyway, I've though of something else: As the docking drogue doubles up as the hatch on both the SSVP-G4000 and SSVP-M8000 systems, will the adapter use have its own drogue/hatch, or will it use the drogue/hatch of the hybrid port below it?

Only one hatch? Once the adaptor is removed the only thing to dock to MLM will be the UM so surely it would be easier to adapt it’s active mechanism?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/22/2012 01:31 PM
Anyway, I've though of something else: As the docking drogue doubles up as the hatch on both the SSVP-G4000 and SSVP-M8000 systems, will the adapter use have its own drogue/hatch, or will it use the drogue/hatch of the hybrid port below it?
On the hybrid system (ssvp-m8000) the cone is actually NOT part of the hatch itself. The hatch is flat in that system, with the cone being attached separately. See the reply from Manboy, earlier in this thread, for two images that clearly show this. (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg992509#msg992509) 

Therefore I would imagine that the ssvp-g4000 system on top doest not have it's own hatch and would use the cone that is attached to the hatch of the ssvp-m8000 underneath. From the images posted by Manboy it is clear that the cone rises quite a bit above the plain of the ssvp-m8000 hard capture plate (docking ring). Possibly so much that it would be a near perfect fit when the ssvp-g4000 adapter is installed on top of it. And even if it isn't,  it would not be very hard for the Russians to lenghten the installation rods for the cone so that it comes out flush with the hard capture plate of the ssvp-g4000 adapter.

The only requirement for the ssvp-g4000 adapter would then be that it performs and air-tight seal with the ssvp-m8000 assembly underneath. But that is required no matter if the adapter has it's own hatch or not.

Docking of a Soyuz or Progress to the ssvp-g4000 docking port would be entirely standard. Only difference would be on the ISS side. The ISS crew opens up the hatch of the ssvp-m8000 docking port (after tunnel pressurization and leak checks) and then removes the cone assembly. The cone on the hatch is so bulky that would severly restrict access to the hatch when it would remain permanently attached. But, this restriction also applies when something docks to an ssvp-m8000 port directly. Like in the case of Poisk and Pirs docking to the zenith and nadir docking ports of Zvezda.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/22/2012 01:52 PM
On the hybrid system (ssvp-m8000) the cone is actually NOT part of the hatch itself. The hatch is flat in that system, with the cone being attached separately. See the reply from Manboy, earlier in this thread, for two images that clearly show this. (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg992509#msg992509) 

No, that is incorrect - the flat hatch and the conical hatch are two separate pieces of hardware, the cone is not just attached to the flat hatch.

But I agree with you that the cone of the SSVP-M8000 will likely be used for the SSVP-G4000.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 12/22/2012 03:43 PM
But I agree with you that the cone of the SSVP-M8000 will likely be used for the SSVP-G4000.
Yes. The new mechanism will use the docking cone from the hybrid mechanism. It stands above the docking plane to a distance of about of thickness of the adapter ssvpM8000-ssvpG4000.

Photo credit NASA
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/23/2012 11:18 AM
On the hybrid system (ssvp-m8000) the cone is actually NOT part of the hatch itself. The hatch is flat in that system, with the cone being attached separately. See the reply from Manboy, earlier in this thread, for two images that clearly show this. (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg992509#msg992509) 

No, that is incorrect - the flat hatch and the conical hatch are two separate pieces of hardware, the cone is not just attached to the flat hatch.

But I agree with you that the cone of the SSVP-M8000 will likely be used for the SSVP-G4000.
Yeah, I see what you mean Pete. So, at some point in time the ISS crew performed an IVA to swap out the flat hatch on Zvezda with one that carries a cone. Do I detect correctly from those images that the ssvp-m8000 hatches are not hinged? Rather, they are "loose" hatches, like the docking tunnel hatch of the Apollo Command Module?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 12/23/2012 11:27 AM
So, at some point in time the ISS crew performed an IVA to swap out the flat hatch on Zvezda with one that carries a cone. Do I detect correctly from those images that the ssvp-m8000 hatches are not hinged? Rather, they are "loose" hatches, like the docking tunnel hatch of the Apollo Command Module?

You are correct on both counts - the conical hatch - which was launched on the SM forward port to facilitate docking with the FGB - was relocated via IVA (technically EVA) to the SM Nadir port for the docking of DC-1, and then relocated via IVA to the SM Zenith port for the MRM-2 docking.

And yes, the conical hatch is not hinged, it is free-floating.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 12/27/2012 11:30 PM
I hope Russia still has a launch base for the Proton by the time this is ready.

Hope they have a backup plan to launch from Russia.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 12/31/2012 07:30 PM
Just to clarify, what seems to be superimposed over the hybrid female adapter is a standard "probe and cone" docking collar, sandwiched between the hybrid cone and the hybrid docking collar. I don't know how the "extra" docking collar can be observed laterally, since it should be obscured by the hybrid collar.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 12/31/2012 11:33 PM
Just to clarify, what seems to be superimposed over the hybrid female adapter is a standard "probe and cone" docking collar, sandwiched between the hybrid cone and the hybrid docking collar. I don't know how the "extra" docking collar can be observed laterally, since it should be obscured by the hybrid collar.

Wrong. The standard probe and cone is not sandwiched between the cone and the docking collar. It does not physically fit in that space. It is stacked om top of the hybrid collar, minus the cone. The standard collar uses the cone of the hybrid collar.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/01/2013 12:45 AM
On the hybrid system (ssvp-m8000) the cone is actually NOT part of the hatch itself. The hatch is flat in that system, with the cone being attached separately. See the reply from Manboy, earlier in this thread, for two images that clearly show this. (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg992509#msg992509) 
No, that is incorrect - the flat hatch and the conical hatch are two separate pieces of hardware, the cone is not just attached to the flat hatch.
But I agree with you that the cone of the SSVP-M8000 will likely be used for the SSVP-G4000.
Pasted from and confirmed via separate email to be correct by Anatoly Zak of RussianSpaceWeb.com (Added to his RSW.rom website Docking System Section on 31 December 2012; sources available via email from him upon request:
SSPA-GM NOT SSVP-M8000 is to be used on MLM, UM modules and all future large modules planned for use on ISS RS. Please see below for full details

SSPA-GM:
This docking system, which represents a hybrid between a passive cone and the APAS mechanism, could be adapted in flight to receive active Soyuz and Progress ships with drogue-and-cone ports, as well as heavy modules with APAS ports. Known as SSPA-GM, it was designed for the MLM module of the International Space Station. When receiving Soyuz vehicles, it would open a passage with a diameter of 800 millimeters; however, after its in-flight transformation to host future modules, it would form a tunnel with a diameter of 1,200 millimeters.
----
According to his email reply both MLM Zenith and MLM Nadir are slated to use SSPA-GM, with MLM Zenith SSPA-GM initially configured to SSVP-M8000 to allow for docking to Zvezda SM and SSPA-GM MLM Nadir initially configured to SSVP-M8000. MLM Nadir in final configuration will shed SSVP-M8000 (800 mm) docking interface adaptor and use SSPA-GM (1,200 mm) interface for connection with the UM Zenith interface. If MLM is later separated from Zvezda SM for post-ISS mission/Russian station then SSVP-M8000 docking interface adapter attached to MLM Zenith SSPA-GM will be separated to allow SSPA-GM to be used.

LINK: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/docking.html (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/docking.html)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/01/2013 10:19 AM
I think Anatoly Zak used information with mistakenly written notation of docking units.

ZVEZDA: ССВП-М Г8000 (short ССВП-М) aka hybrid use docking ring with inner diameter ~1200mm
ССВП Г4000 (short ССВП) aka Probe & Drogue use docking ring, inner diameter ~800mm

Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine #9 2000 http://88.210.62.157/content/numbers/212/03.shtml

ССПА-ГМ - Система Стыковки Пассивная Адаптируемая - Гибридная  Модифицируемая (docking system passive adaptable - hybrid modifiable). Energy insider told this information in Nov 2010 on the NK Forum http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic3125/message659407/#message659407

According to the presentation RSC Energia, docking units to UM (node module) will be named differently.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 01/01/2013 05:02 PM
I think Anatoly Zak used information with mistakenly written notation of docking units.

ZVEZDA: ССВП-М Г8000 (short ССВП-М) aka hybrid use docking ring with inner diameter ~1200mm
ССВП Г4000 (short ССВП) aka Probe & Drogue use docking ring, inner diameter ~800mm

Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine #9 2000 http://88.210.62.157/content/numbers/212/03.shtml

ССПА-ГМ - Система Стыковки Пассивная Адаптируемая - Гибридная  Модифицируемая (docking system passive adaptable - hybrid modifiable). Energy insider told this information in Nov 2010 on the NK Forum http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic3125/message659407/#message659407

According to the presentation RSC Energia, docking units to UM (node module) will be named differently.


Concur. Because the interface end of MLM nadir currently clearly shows the hard capture plate of the SSVP-G4000 docking system. And that system has a tunnel width of 800 milimeters, not 1200 millimeters. I find it more likely that SSPA-GM is the name for the docking interface on MLM and node module, based on the current SSVP-M8000 interface, BUT with a much wider passageway.

You see, the internal diameter of the SSVP-M8000 tunnel (NOT passageway for astronauts, but the entire pressurized tunnel) is 1255 millimeters in diameter. However, the passageway thru that system is identical in diameter to that of SSVP-G4000; namely 800 millimeters. That is a result of the fact that SSVP-M8000 is based on APAS-89/95 hardware. On APAS, part of the diameter inside the pressurized tunnel is unavailable for astronaut passage because of the presence of the soft-capture ring with it's petals. Thus, only the center 800 millimeters of the APAS-89/95 tunnel are available for the passage of astronauts.
Now, SSVP-M8000 uses the APAS Hard Capture Plate assembly, but with the probe and cone assembly of SSVP-G4000. Being based on APAS the SSVP-M8000 still retains the 800 millimeter passageway. However, in theory, the passageway on SSVP-M8000 could be much larger because there is NO soft-capture ring assembly present.
Possibly the Russians acknowledged that fact and chose to optimize the SSVP-M8000 system to make full-use of the 1255 millimeter diameter of the SSVP-M8000 tunnel. This way, we would arrive at the 1200 millimeter passageway diameter that is stated by Anatoly Zak.

But, that is just my guess.

What is clear that the docking port on MLM nadir can be transformed in-flight. But, the message from Anatoly Zak also suggests that this transformation is a one-time-only affair. And that would comply with the observation that MLM nadir currently holds an ejectable SSVP-G4000 adaptor on top of an SSVP-M8000 (OR SSVP-M8000-based system such as SSPA-GM) docking system.

Well, I guess we will see how this al works out once MLM gets to orbit.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 01/01/2013 11:48 PM
A bunch of randomness to say and ask...

1. Notice that the Russians have definately sped up or pushed forward their work on the MLM, Node Module, and the power module(s) over the passed year. I would directly link this to the reinstatement of Putin as President. Putin has a very competitive attitude towards the west in everything he has the power to oversee, including his nation's space program. The expansion of the RS was approved a while time ago, so this gives him the legal right to push those funds through and get it done. Not that his predecessor didn't support the space program (and I'm sure he probably had), other things were on his plate that kept him from doing what Putin is doing to aggressively see to it that these new modules get built and launched - with the approved and authorized funding.

2. Now that we know the docking systems that will launch with these modules, let's settle the old debate once and for all concerning how many ports would be available for VV on the Node Module. Just 1, or more than 1?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 01/02/2013 10:35 AM
You see, the internal diameter of the SSVP-M8000 tunnel (NOT passageway for astronauts, but the entire pressurized tunnel) is 1225 millimeters in diameter. However, the passageway thru that system is identical in diameter to that of SSVP-G4000; namely 800 millimeters. That is a result of the fact that SSVP-M8000 is based on APAS-89/95 hardware.

That's not correct. APAS ring has inner diameter 1255mm. And passageway through SSVP-M8000 is about 1050mmm. Not 800mm like at SSVP-G4000.
Look once again to this picture.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23444.0;attach=486285;image

APAS 89/95 has passageway 800mm because of guide petals of Soft Capture System, which aren't at SSVP-M8000.


Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/02/2013 11:47 AM
There is some reason for doing the assumption that the size of the hybrid in the MLM will be the following:
Inner diameter hybrid docking ring 1255mm yellow arrow
Structural frame (left with APAS-89) ~1180mm green arrow
Hatch passageway ~1125mm  ~1100mm red arrow
(1125mm diameter of the ring seal)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 01/02/2013 01:20 PM
You see, the internal diameter of the SSVP-M8000 tunnel (NOT passageway for astronauts, but the entire pressurized tunnel) is 1225 millimeters in diameter. However, the passageway thru that system is identical in diameter to that of SSVP-G4000; namely 800 millimeters. That is a result of the fact that SSVP-M8000 is based on APAS-89/95 hardware.

That's not correct. APAS ring has inner diameter 1255mm. And passageway through SSVP-M8000 is about 1050mmm. Not 800mm like at SSVP-G4000.
Look once again to this picture.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23444.0;attach=486285;image

APAS 89/95 has passageway 800mm because of guide petals of Soft Capture System, which aren't at SSVP-M8000.



About the hatch diameter of SSVP-M8000: the only source I have says it's 810 millimeters in diameter. But, I agree, the image seems to point to a hatch diameter of around 1 meter (circa 1000 millimeters). However, still not near the 1200 millimeter passageway-diameter listed for SSPA-GM by Anatoly Zak.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 01/02/2013 01:22 PM
There is some reason for doing the assumption that the size of the hybrid in the MLM will be the following:
Inner diameter hybrid docking ring 1255mm yellow arrow
Structural frame (left with APAS-89) ~1180mm green arrow
Hatch passageway ~1125mm red arrow

360-180, what I miss in that image is context. Could you show the whole image? Thanks.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 01/02/2013 02:02 PM
Just to clarify, what seems to be superimposed over the hybrid female adapter is a standard "probe and cone" docking collar, sandwiched between the hybrid cone and the hybrid docking collar. I don't know how the "extra" docking collar can be observed laterally, since it should be obscured by the hybrid collar.

Wrong. The standard probe and cone is not sandwiched between the cone and the docking collar. It does not physically fit in that space. It is stacked om top of the hybrid collar, minus the cone. The standard collar uses the cone of the hybrid collar.

What I described above was:

" a standard "probe and cone" docking collar, sandwiched between the hybrid cone and the hybrid docking collar".

What part of that was wrong?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/02/2013 04:18 PM
hybrid docking collar inner diameter 1255mm  blue
standard "probe & cone" docking collar outer diameter ~1300mm yellow
green ring is the result of overlapping collars
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 01/02/2013 04:31 PM
hybrid docking collar inner diameter 1255mm  blue
standard "probe & cone" docking collar outer diameter ~1300mm yellow
green ring is the result of overlapping collars

anyone wish to export this into dxf format?   I can then make a 3D model of it.

thx
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 01/02/2013 06:14 PM
hybrid docking collar inner diameter 1255mm  blue
standard "probe & cone" docking collar outer diameter ~1300mm yellow
green ring is the result of overlapping collars
As 360-180 clearly shows in his drawing it is impossible to fit the docking collar of SSVP-G4000 (standard probe & cone) inside the docking collar of the SSVP-M8000 system (hybrid probe & cone). You can't fit something with an outer diameter of 1300 millimeter inside something that has a inner diameter that is smaller than 1300 millimeter (namely 1255 millimeter).

Also, the outer diameter of the standard probe&cone dockin collar is closer to 1360 millimeters in diameter than the 1300 listed by 360-180. The result, however, remains the same: the standard probe & cone docking collar does not physically fit inside the hybrid docking collar.

Upon that realization I took another good look at the images of the MLM nadir port. And that's when I noticed that it appears that the nadir port has actually two docking systems stacked on top of each other. The outer one is clearly a standard probe & cone. Underneath it is either an SSVP-M8000 or, as Anatoly Zak states, SSPA-GM (a derivative of SSVP-M8000).
The outer SSVP-G4000 system is probably a detachable adapter that can be jettisoned upon departure of the last Progress to use that port, in anticipation of the arrival of the Node Module. Soyuz and Progress use the standard probe & cone (SSVP-G4000), but the node module is equipped with the larger hybrid docking system, either SSVP-M8000 or the newly referenced SSPA-GM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/03/2013 03:47 AM
hybrid docking collar inner diameter 1255mm  blue
standard "probe & cone" docking collar outer diameter ~1300mm yellow
green ring is the result of overlapping collars
As 360-180 clearly shows in his drawing it is impossible to fit the docking collar of SSVP-G4000 (standard probe & cone) inside the docking collar of the SSVP-M8000 system (hybrid probe & cone). You can't fit something with an outer diameter of 1300 millimeter inside something that has a inner diameter that is smaller than 1300 millimeter (namely 1255 millimeter).

Also, the outer diameter of the standard probe&cone dockin collar is closer to 1360 millimeters in diameter than the 1300 listed by 360-180. The result, however, remains the same: the standard probe & cone docking collar does not physically fit inside the hybrid docking collar.

Upon that realization I took another good look at the images of the MLM nadir port. And that's when I noticed that it appears that the nadir port has actually two docking systems stacked on top of each other. The outer one is clearly a standard probe & cone. Underneath it is either an SSVP-M8000 or, as Anatoly Zak states, SSPA-GM (a derivative of SSVP-M8000).
The outer SSVP-G4000 system is probably a detachable adapter that can be jettisoned upon departure of the last Progress to use that port, in anticipation of the arrival of the Node Module. Soyuz and Progress use the standard probe & cone (SSVP-G4000), but the node module is equipped with the larger hybrid docking system, either SSVP-M8000 or the newly referenced SSPA-GM.
I have confirmed that MLM Nadir contains an adaptor that will be removed during undocking with last Progress SC taking it with it during and following undocking to destructive reentry. This adaptor is single use only and cannot be reused upon sep from MLM.

Several people have confirmed/mentioned that all future modules docking ports starting with MLM are to use only SSPA-GM, which is an IDSS compliant interface according to Mr. Zak.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 01/03/2013 05:10 AM
hybrid docking collar inner diameter 1255mm  blue
standard "probe & cone" docking collar outer diameter ~1300mm yellow
green ring is the result of overlapping collars
As 360-180 clearly shows in his drawing it is impossible to fit the docking collar of SSVP-G4000 (standard probe & cone) inside the docking collar of the SSVP-M8000 system (hybrid probe & cone). You can't fit something with an outer diameter of 1300 millimeter inside something that has a inner diameter that is smaller than 1300 millimeter (namely 1255 millimeter).

Also, the outer diameter of the standard probe&cone dockin collar is closer to 1360 millimeters in diameter than the 1300 listed by 360-180. The result, however, remains the same: the standard probe & cone docking collar does not physically fit inside the hybrid docking collar.

Upon that realization I took another good look at the images of the MLM nadir port. And that's when I noticed that it appears that the nadir port has actually two docking systems stacked on top of each other. The outer one is clearly a standard probe & cone. Underneath it is either an SSVP-M8000 or, as Anatoly Zak states, SSPA-GM (a derivative of SSVP-M8000).
The outer SSVP-G4000 system is probably a detachable adapter that can be jettisoned upon departure of the last Progress to use that port, in anticipation of the arrival of the Node Module. Soyuz and Progress use the standard probe & cone (SSVP-G4000), but the node module is equipped with the larger hybrid docking system, either SSVP-M8000 or the newly referenced SSPA-GM.
I have confirmed that MLM Nadir contains an adaptor that will be removed during undocking with last Progress SC taking it with it during and following undocking to destructive reentry. This adaptor is single use only and cannot be reused upon sep from MLM.

Several people have confirmed/mentioned that all future modules docking ports starting with MLM are to use only SSPA-GM, which is an IDSS compliant interface according to Mr. Zak.
Good information. Thanks.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Robotbeat on 01/03/2013 05:13 AM
Awesome that it will be IDSS compatible! Does this mean that vehicles like crewed Dragon, Orion, etc, should be able to dock with it, if only in a contingency!
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 01/03/2013 01:56 PM
According to documents on UM available on L2 :

MLM nadir will have two docking systems. The first will be SSVP-G4000 for dockings of Soyuz, Progress, and first version of PTK-NP.

The second will be SSP-K, for docking of UM. Diameter will be 1100mm.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/03/2013 03:34 PM
The second will be SSP-K, for docking of UM. Diameter will be 1100mm.
I've heard a few abbreviations for the new Russian docking systems.
Anyone know the correct name?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Raul on 01/04/2013 07:39 AM
The second will be SSP-K, for docking of UM. Diameter will be 1100mm.
I've heard a few abbreviations for the new Russian docking systems.
Anyone know the correct name?
It's similar like SSVP-G4000 is also called Docking Port Active - ASA (Agregat Stykovochnyi Aktivnyi) and Docking Port Passive - ASP (Agregat Stykovochnyi Passivnyi)

As well SSVP-M8000 called Docking Port Active Hybrid - ASA-G (Agregat Stykovochnyi Aktivnyi – Gibridnyi) and Docking Port Passive Hybrid - ASP-G (Agregat Stykovochnyi Passivnyi – Gibridnyi)

So also SSPA-GM in passive variant is likely SSP-K, I guess something like (Sistema Stykovochnyi Passivnyi – Kombinirovannyi)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 01/10/2013 04:59 PM
So, at some point in time the ISS crew performed an IVA to swap out the flat hatch on Zvezda with one that carries a cone. Do I detect correctly from those images that the ssvp-m8000 hatches are not hinged? Rather, they are "loose" hatches, like the docking tunnel hatch of the Apollo Command Module?

You are correct on both counts - the conical hatch - which was launched on the SM forward port to facilitate docking with the FGB - was relocated via IVA (technically EVA) to the SM Nadir port for the docking of DC-1, and then relocated via IVA to the SM Zenith port for the MRM-2 docking.

And yes, the conical hatch is not hinged, it is free-floating.

 If a piloted Soyuz mission dockes to the MLM, does the free-floating hatch cause any issues to closure in an emergency compared to the hinged hatches?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 01/10/2013 09:40 PM
If a piloted Soyuz mission dockes to the MLM, does the free-floating hatch cause any issues to closure in an emergency compared to the hinged hatches?

That's a very good point - standard drogue hatches are hinged in order to allow for fast closure in the event of an emergency (no need to find the hatch, remove stowage to access it, align it, etc). Since piloted Soyuz vehicles are scheduled to dock to MLM, there may need to be some additional flight rules to keep the free-floating hatch unobstructed and located near to the Soyuz hatchway.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/11/2013 10:25 AM
 If a piloted Soyuz mission dockes to the MLM, does the free-floating hatch cause any issues to closure in an emergency compared to the hinged hatches?
I think, not-free. Like FGB hatch.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 01/11/2013 01:40 PM
I think, not-free. Like FGB hatch.

That is the active side hatch (to which the probe attaches) - which is hinged. The passive side (cone) hatch is free-floating, in order to facilitate relocation between ports.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/11/2013 02:18 PM
I think, not-free. Like FGB hatch.

That is the active side hatch (to which the probe attaches) - which is hinged. The passive side (cone) hatch is free-floating, in order to facilitate relocation between ports.
Cone-hatch FGB astronauts will not be moved to another location.
Therefore, this hatch is hinged hatch
I was watching a video about the MLM module and even saw this hinge.
Later I will post a picture.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/11/2013 02:42 PM
may 2011 2012

Oops! Mistake  >:( This isn't hinge. This is the basis for a hinge.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 01/11/2013 02:42 PM
Cone-hatch FGB astronauts will not be moved to another location.
Therefore, this hatch is hinged hatch
I was watching a video about the MLM module and even saw this hinge.
Later I will post a picture.

So you are saying that as the MLM conical hatch will not need to be relocated, it will therefore be hinged? Makes sense.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 01/18/2013 08:00 AM
Very probably the MLM nadir hatch (before the arrival of UM node module) will be very similar to a "standard" hatchs in Zvezda etc. (hinge, locks, opening-closing).  Visually with ribs instead of the cone.   
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 01/21/2013 05:49 PM
Quote
Транспортировка трех РН «Протон-М» с ГО для запуска КА «Экспресс-АМ6», МЛМ РС МКС, «Экспресс-АТ1, -АТ2»
http://zakupki.gov.ru/pgz/public/action/orders/info/common_info/show?notificationId=5246254
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 02/15/2013 06:36 AM
Received word from one of my contacts that the unofficial (as in "hallway at the water-cooler"-unofficial) launchdate is now back in December 2013 (was 2014). It looks as if the Russians are doing an all-out push to launch MLM in December this year.

Note: the official launchdate is also still set in December 2013.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 02/15/2013 03:02 PM
Received word from one of my contacts that the unofficial (as in "hallway at the water-cooler"-unofficial) launchdate is now back in December 2013 (was 2014). It looks as if the Russians are doing an all-out push to launch MLM in December this year.

Note: the official launchdate is also still set in December 2013.
Will I hope we end up with a nominally functioning module upon arrival on the orbit.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 02/16/2013 05:21 PM
Received word from one of my contacts that the unofficial (as in "hallway at the water-cooler"-unofficial) launchdate is now back in December 2013 (was 2014). It looks as if the Russians are doing an all-out push to launch MLM in December this year.

Note: the official launchdate is also still set in December 2013.
Will I hope we end up with a nominally functioning module upon arrival on the orbit.
Yes, that would be most desirable.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 02/17/2013 02:06 PM
Will I hope we end up with a nominally functioning module upon arrival on the orbit.
Oh I'm sure it will be just fine - the RSA would not stand for such an embarrasment.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 02/17/2013 06:50 PM
Will I hope we end up with a nominally functioning module upon arrival on the orbit.
Oh I'm sure it will be just fine - the RSA would not stand for such an embarrasment.
Except when they rush valuable payloads like their mars missions which they knew had unresolved problems but to make the launch window they went ahead and launched. I feel Russia is starting to display the effects of the so called clear to launch "go" fever that resulted for the USA in the loss of Challenger and Columbia. These events were caused by a breakdown of the leadership/followership relationship since several people that knew of present issues and failed on the grounds of safety to say hold, stop, no go, we have a problem. The NASA documentary about the Space Shuttle actually says that, though not using my words.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 02/18/2013 02:26 PM
Received word from one of my contacts that the unofficial (as in "hallway at the water-cooler"-unofficial) launchdate is now back in December 2013 (was 2014). It looks as if the Russians are doing an all-out push to launch MLM in December this year.

Note: the official launchdate is also still set in December 2013.

with the shortage of Proton launch slots, wondered what would happen.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 02/18/2013 06:07 PM
with the shortage of Proton launch slots, wondered what would happen

Forget about shortage of slots. There will be Proton launches as many as Russia will want. It was just politics between Russia and Kazakhstan.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: JazzFan on 02/18/2013 10:58 PM
Are any of these dates still in the plan?

12/11/13 - MLM launch on Proton-M (Baikonur)
12/18/13 - Pirs deorbit on Progress M-20M/52P

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 02/19/2013 04:43 AM
Except when they rush valuable payloads like their mars missions which they knew had unresolved problems but to make the launch window they went ahead and launched.
And that is one of the reasons I think MLM will be just fine. They'll likely just cut some red tape and beraucracy out - and I'm sure there are plenty of this stuff...
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 02/19/2013 08:01 AM
Are any of these dates still in the plan?

Why not?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Nickolai on 02/20/2013 03:33 AM
Will I hope we end up with a nominally functioning module upon arrival on the orbit.
Oh I'm sure it will be just fine - the RSA would not stand for such an embarrasment.
Except when they rush valuable payloads like their mars missions which they knew had unresolved problems but to make the launch window they went ahead and launched. I feel Russia is starting to display the effects of the so called clear to launch "go" fever that resulted for the USA in the loss of Challenger and Columbia. These events were caused by a breakdown of the leadership/followership relationship since several people that knew of present issues and failed on the grounds of safety to say hold, stop, no go, we have a problem. The NASA documentary about the Space Shuttle actually says that, though not using my words.

Launch fever isn't unique to a country or to a vehicle. Consider the launch of Buran in 1988: "The weather was snow flurries with 20 m/s winds. Launch abort criteria were 15 m/s." (http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm). It happens to any project. That being said, hopefully more rational heads will prevail for MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 02/22/2013 10:47 AM
Will I hope we end up with a nominally functioning module upon arrival on the orbit.
Oh I'm sure it will be just fine - the RSA would not stand for such an embarrasment.
Except when they rush valuable payloads like their mars missions which they knew had unresolved problems but to make the launch window they went ahead and launched. I feel Russia is starting to display the effects of the so called clear to launch "go" fever that resulted for the USA in the loss of Challenger and Columbia. These events were caused by a breakdown of the leadership/followership relationship since several people that knew of present issues and failed on the grounds of safety to say hold, stop, no go, we have a problem. The NASA documentary about the Space Shuttle actually says that, though not using my words.

Launch fever isn't unique to a country or to a vehicle. Consider the launch of Buran in 1988: "The weather was snow flurries with 20 m/s winds. Launch abort criteria were 15 m/s." (http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm). It happens to any project. That being said, hopefully more rational heads will prevail for MLM.

That's interesting, considering it was launched just a couple of years after Challenger. You would think that there would be Gobal lessons learned from launching Challenger in too cold a weather. Or did they not know back then that cold had anything to do with the Challenger accident. Yes, I know Buran used liquid fuel boosters, which is a very different system than the STS solid fuel boosters... I'm just saying...
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Jim on 02/22/2013 12:08 PM

That's interesting, considering it was launched just a couple of years after Challenger. You would think that there would be Gobal lessons learned from launching Challenger in too cold a weather. Or did they not know back then that cold had anything to do with the Challenger accident. Yes, I know Buran used liquid fuel boosters, which is a very different system than the STS solid fuel boosters... I'm just saying...

You are just saying wrong.  Like you point out, they are very different systems and the lessons learned from Challenger are not applicable.   The lessons learned that they follow was other systems like the Soyuz and Zenit (which the Energia boosters are based on) launch in sub zero temperatures all the time. So they knew what they were dong wrt temperature and it was no increased risk.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 02/22/2013 02:50 PM
Yes, I know Buran used liquid fuel boosters, which is a very different system than the STS solid fuel boosters... I'm just saying...
Zenit launch at temperatures from -29 to +40 degrees Celsius. I suspect that the LV Energia also designed for such temperatures.

----------------------------
LV PROTON Launch Constraints
Temperature -40C to 45C
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 02/22/2013 03:14 PM
I believe that Soyuz LV performance increases as the weather gets colder.

However, none of this has anything to do with the MLM and its Proton launcher.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 03/11/2013 05:55 PM
Maybe it is already known by averybody here, but I've just discovered in this journal that MLM will have S5.144 engines :

http://publications.ssau.ru/files/VESTNIK_SGAU/7/27.pdf
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 04/04/2013 04:41 PM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 04/04/2013 04:56 PM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.

Edit: standard SSVP-G4000 docking interface and hybrid system cone.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 04/04/2013 05:05 PM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.
Nearly standard cone. This is similar to the hybrid cone.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 04/04/2013 05:38 PM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.

Don't agree with you. Compare with this picture of the aft port of Zvezda :

http://www.kosmonavtika.com/vaisseaux/mks/missions/mkseo20/photos/mks20-620.jpg
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 04/05/2013 09:16 AM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.
Nearly standard cone. This is similar to the hybrid cone.
Yes, the cone looks to be a hybrid cone, as expected, for this end of Nauka holds a double docking-ring. What we are looking at is the outside of the outer docking ring. The interface plate (hard capture plate) very clearly resembles that of an SSVP-G4000 system.
Underneath it is very likely an implementation of the hybrid docking system (based on APAS-89), as suggested by the physical appearance of the docking cone.

@ Nicolas: disagree with me all you want. I know an SSVP-G4000 interface plate when I see one. The link you provided to Kosmonavtika is bad by the way. Error message File not found.

Here's a link that works (http://spaceinimages.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2006/11/the_atv_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_iss_service_module/10218784-2-eng-GB/The_ATV_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_ISS_Service_Module.jpg). It shows the mock-up of the rear end of Zvezda that was used for practicing the AVT docking.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 04/06/2013 09:36 AM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.
Nearly standard cone. This is similar to the hybrid cone.
Yes, the cone looks to be a hybrid cone, as expected, for this end of Nauka holds a double docking-ring. What we are looking at is the outside of the outer docking ring. The interface plate (hard capture plate) very clearly resembles that of an SSVP-G4000 system.
Underneath it is very likely an implementation of the hybrid docking system (based on APAS-89), as suggested by the physical appearance of the docking cone.

@ Nicolas: disagree with me all you want. I know an SSVP-G4000 interface plate when I see one. The link you provided to Kosmonavtika is bad by the way. Error message File not found.

Here's a link that works (http://spaceinimages.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2006/11/the_atv_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_iss_service_module/10218784-2-eng-GB/The_ATV_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_ISS_Service_Module.jpg). It shows the mock-up of the rear end of Zvezda that was used for practicing the AVT docking.

Aren't the SSVP-G4000 and Hybrid docking cones essentially the same? What do you mean by a "double docking-ring"?

Here's some better images of SSVP-G4000

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mir_mock-up_-_docking_mechanism.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_drogue.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iss014e05015.jpg

http://www.congrex.nl/08a11/presentations/day1_S02/S02_03_Cislaghi.pdf

Here's some images of Hybrid

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Passive_hybrid_docking_system_-_from_another_angle.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Passive_hybrid_docking_system_on_Zarya.jpg
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Delta7 on 04/06/2013 01:43 PM
One interesting observation. The pictures show cosmonauts inspecting the module in pairs assigned to the same crew (Skvortsov and Artyemev; Samokutyayev and Serova; ...) Oleg Kononenko appears with unassigned cosmonaut Sergei Ryzhikov in several photos. I wonder if there are any implications to this; possibly Kononenko's backup on Soyuz 17M/Soyuz 19M prime crew member?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 04/06/2013 01:52 PM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.
Nearly standard cone. This is similar to the hybrid cone.
Yes, the cone looks to be a hybrid cone, as expected, for this end of Nauka holds a double docking-ring. What we are looking at is the outside of the outer docking ring. The interface plate (hard capture plate) very clearly resembles that of an SSVP-G4000 system.
Underneath it is very likely an implementation of the hybrid docking system (based on APAS-89), as suggested by the physical appearance of the docking cone.

@ Nicolas: disagree with me all you want. I know an SSVP-G4000 interface plate when I see one. The link you provided to Kosmonavtika is bad by the way. Error message File not found.

Here's a link that works (http://spaceinimages.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2006/11/the_atv_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_iss_service_module/10218784-2-eng-GB/The_ATV_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_ISS_Service_Module.jpg). It shows the mock-up of the rear end of Zvezda that was used for practicing the AVT docking.

Aren't the SSVP-G4000 and Hybrid docking cones essentially the same? What do you mean by a "double docking-ring"?

Here's some better images of SSVP-G4000

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mir_mock-up_-_docking_mechanism.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_drogue.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iss014e05015.jpg

http://www.congrex.nl/08a11/presentations/day1_S02/S02_03_Cislaghi.pdf

Here's some images of Hybrid

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Passive_hybrid_docking_system_-_from_another_angle.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Passive_hybrid_docking_system_on_Zarya.jpg
SSPA-GM was designed for use starting with MLM Nadir and will connect UM to MLM after adaptor is removed. Info about SSPA-GM is posted earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 04/06/2013 02:21 PM
Here's some images of Hybrid
(http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/lores/iss030e241385.jpg)
Like Bent Pyramid Sneferu  ;)

(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23444.0;attach=506308;image)
Look at this bent cone
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/06/2013 02:52 PM
From Samantha Cristoforetti: (http://www.flickr.com/photos/astrosamantha/8622323870/) the MLM training module at the Star City NBL (http://www.flickr.com/photos/astrosamantha/8624852638/).  :)

BTW according to Andrey the comsonauts who have visited the real thing have less than stellar comments about it..... (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1055854/#message1055854)  ::)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 04/06/2013 10:52 PM
Several pictures here :

http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_04-04.html

Yahoo! The final two pictures confirm that the outer docking ring is a standard probe and cone.
Nearly standard cone. This is similar to the hybrid cone.
Yes, the cone looks to be a hybrid cone, as expected, for this end of Nauka holds a double docking-ring. What we are looking at is the outside of the outer docking ring. The interface plate (hard capture plate) very clearly resembles that of an SSVP-G4000 system.
Underneath it is very likely an implementation of the hybrid docking system (based on APAS-89), as suggested by the physical appearance of the docking cone.

@ Nicolas: disagree with me all you want. I know an SSVP-G4000 interface plate when I see one. The link you provided to Kosmonavtika is bad by the way. Error message File not found.

Here's a link that works (http://spaceinimages.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2006/11/the_atv_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_iss_service_module/10218784-2-eng-GB/The_ATV_rendezvous_simulation_was_as_realistic_as_possible_-_using_a_mock-up_of_the_aft_end_of_the_ISS_Service_Module.jpg). It shows the mock-up of the rear end of Zvezda that was used for practicing the AVT docking.

Aren't the SSVP-G4000 and Hybrid docking cones essentially the same? What do you mean by a "double docking-ring"?

Here's some better images of SSVP-G4000

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mir_mock-up_-_docking_mechanism.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_drogue.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iss014e05015.jpg

http://www.congrex.nl/08a11/presentations/day1_S02/S02_03_Cislaghi.pdf

Here's some images of Hybrid

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Passive_hybrid_docking_system_-_from_another_angle.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Passive_hybrid_docking_system_on_Zarya.jpg
SSPA-GM was designed for use starting with MLM Nadir and will connect UM to MLM after adaptor is removed. Info about SSPA-GM is posted earlier in this thread.
There still seems to be some conflicting information about SSPA-GM. According to Anatoly Zak, "When receiving Soyuz vehicles, it would open a passage with a diameter of 800 millimeters; however, after its in-flight transformation to host future modules, it would form a tunnel with a diameter of 1,200 millimeters." Anatoly Zak has also stated it's IDSS compliant. This linked presentation states that IDSS's hard capture system can mate with APAS' (slide 30 (http://dockingstandard.nasa.gov/Meetings/TIM_%28Nov-17-2010%29/NDS_TIM_presentation.pdf)) which would require certain dimensions to be the same. But we know from 360-180's post that SSVP-G4000 is too large to fit inside a mechanism with SSVP-M8000's dimensions.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 04/07/2013 05:58 PM
Aren't the SSVP-G4000 and Hybrid docking cones essentially the same? What do you mean by a "double docking-ring"?

This has been extensively discussed only five pages earlier in this thread. Read from this post forward (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg994001#msg994001). You'll understand what I mean with a double docking ring.

In short: an SSVP-G4000 docking adapter stacked on top of an SSVP-M8000-analogue hybrid docking system. That analogue is referred to as SSPA-GM. When the final Progress leaves from the MLM nadir port (before the arrival of the Node module) it will take this SSVP-G4000 adapter with it, exposing the SSPA-GM port underneath.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 04/07/2013 10:22 PM
Aren't the SSVP-G4000 and Hybrid docking cones essentially the same? What do you mean by a "double docking-ring"?

This has been extensively discussed only five pages earlier in this thread. Read from this post forward (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg994001#msg994001). You'll understand what I mean with a double docking ring.

In short: an SSVP-G4000 docking adapter stacked on top of an SSVP-M8000-analogue hybrid docking system. That analogue is referred to as SSPA-GM. When the final Progress leaves from the MLM nadir port (before the arrival of the Node module) it will take this SSVP-G4000 adapter with it, exposing the SSPA-GM port underneath.
I understand now, thank you.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 04/28/2013 07:37 AM
Some details on MLM in 2011 Energiya annual report.

Now in English
http://www.e-disclosure.ru/portal/FileLoad.ashx?Fileid=569070&type=file
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 06/18/2013 10:18 AM
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_06-18.html
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/18/2013 12:54 PM
http://www.energia.ru/ru/news/news-2013/news_06-18.html

Ha!. They got the ERA structural mock-up mounted on the electrical model of MLM. Bad practice by that employee however. Sitting on the model. Do that with the ERA flight model and you'll break it.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 06/18/2013 03:42 PM
Anik is reporting that MLM launch is now scheduled for sometime in 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 06/18/2013 09:46 PM
Anik is reporting that MLM launch is now scheduled for sometime in 2014.


wonder what happened via this post?
 
Roskosmos said that MLM must be launched in December 2013 even if it will be empty. So there are not 18 months. MLM will be delivered to Baikonur in late summer.
 
Will MLM still ship late summer?  Will Roskosmos get a new manager?
 
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/19/2013 04:29 AM
Looks like the source for the 2014 launch date comes from Lopota (http://www.militarynews.ru/excl.asp?ex=182), who seems to be saying that the MLM will be shipped to Baikonur in December and "put into operation" in early 2014.

Or did I got the translation wrong?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 06/19/2013 05:16 AM
Looks like the source for the 2014 launch date comes from Lopota (http://www.militarynews.ru/excl.asp?ex=182), who seems to be saying that the MLM will be shipped to Baikonur in December and "put into operation" in early 2014.

Or did I got the translation wrong?

It would appear that RSC Energia is going to squeeze a few more months of outfitting MLM at Baikonur.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/19/2013 06:54 AM
Looks like the source for the 2014 launch date comes from Lopota (http://www.militarynews.ru/excl.asp?ex=182), who seems to be saying that the MLM will be shipped to Baikonur in December and "put into operation" in early 2014.

Or did I got the translation wrong?

According to what is said in the interview, the launch is planned for December 2013. Putting Nauka into operations is planned for early 2014.

However, this does not mean that launch will actually take place in December 2013. The latest plan for Russian space launches, as provided by Anik, shows MLM lauchdate TBD in 2014. Anik is almost always correct, and I see no reason to doubt his schedule this time.
So, the official word from the head of Energia is that MLM will launch in December 2013. But it really will be somewhere in 2014.

One has to remember that simply launching MLM and than docking it to Zvezda does not get you an operational module. After arrival the MLM will go through a carefully orchestrated series of check-outs and activation cycles. Part of that process involves activating ERA and using it to install the MLM radiator and science airlock. Only after installation, check-out and activation of the MLM radiator can MLM be considered to be operational.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 06/19/2013 09:55 AM
I was told that MLM launch delay will be announced soon by Popovkin.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/19/2013 10:12 AM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 06/19/2013 07:10 PM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.
According to the schedule, Node module launch is in June 2014. I assume that there will be some checkout and activation activities once MLM arrives, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of time. So does that mean Node is also moving to the right?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/19/2013 07:46 PM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.
According to the schedule, Node module launch is in June 2014. I assume that there will be some checkout and activation activities once MLM arrives, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of time. So does that mean Node is also moving to the right?
The UM is still in middle of construction. IMO the UM will move to the right quite a bit, not just because of MLM being delayed.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 06/20/2013 06:24 AM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, the launch will be possibly in April 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/20/2013 06:39 AM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, the launch will be possibly in April 2014.
And that lines up nicely with what my sources was told about the length of the delay. Add 3 to 4 months to December 2013 and you'll arrive at April 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 06/21/2013 09:29 AM
 Preparation of MLM in KIS :

http://www.energia.ru/en/news/news-2013/news_06-18.html
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: brahmanknight on 06/23/2013 06:36 PM
In bottom left photo in the the above Energia link, is that a ground mock up of the Rassvet module on the left side of the picture?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 06/24/2013 02:25 AM
In bottom left photo in the the above Energia link, is that a ground mock up of the Rassvet module on the left side of the picture?
Yes.
In the middle of the background mock-up for electrical tests SM Zvezda module, the Rassvet module is located to the left, further to the left of the airlock MLM module. Shelves in the foreground is an electrical model of the Soyuz spacecraft.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 06/24/2013 05:41 AM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.

Gosh! This has to be the slowest building of a spacecraft EVER!
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/24/2013 11:38 AM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.

Gosh! This has to be the slowest building of a spacecraft EVER!

Possibly, but there are a number of reasons for this. It's not just down to troubles with the contractor. Lot's of other factors have been in play.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 06/24/2013 05:54 PM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.

Gosh! This has to be the slowest building of a spacecraft EVER!

Possibly, but there are a number of reasons for this. It's not just down to troubles with the contractor. Lot's of other factors have been in play.

How much of FGB-2 actually remains in the MLM, even the serial number is different…
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/25/2013 07:03 AM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.

Gosh! This has to be the slowest building of a spacecraft EVER!

Possibly, but there are a number of reasons for this. It's not just down to troubles with the contractor. Lot's of other factors have been in play.

How much of FGB-2 actually remains in the MLM, even the serial number is different…
It's a completely different module. Even the pressure hull was extensively modified for it to become MLM. The contractor 'undressed' FGB-2 to it's bare spaceframe and worked from there to create MLM.
That does not mean that there isn't much left of FGB-2 in MLM. There has been substantial re-use of former FGB-2 systems and sub-systems.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 06/26/2013 04:22 PM
I asked my sources about this most recent delay. They are being told that the delay will be 3 to 4 months, thus pushing the NET launchdate to (almost certainly) the second quarter of 2014.

Gosh! This has to be the slowest building of a spacecraft EVER!

Authorization for the construction of the hull of the ISS Service Module (Zvezda) was in 1975, and construction was completed in 1985. It then sat around for 15 years or so.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 06/27/2013 02:38 PM
The new laboratory module can enter into the ISS early as November 30
http://ria.ru/science/20130627/946170212.html#ixzz2XQOSYmpH  in russian
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 06/27/2013 07:45 PM
The new laboratory module can enter into the ISS early as November 30
http://ria.ru/science/20130627/946170212.html#ixzz2XQOSYmpH  in russian

It is rubbish.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 06/27/2013 09:06 PM
The new laboratory module can enter into the ISS early as November 30
http://ria.ru/science/20130627/946170212.html#ixzz2XQOSYmpH  in russian

It is rubbish.

Now there is a coincidence. My NLR source used the exact same phrase to give his opinion on this "news".
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 06/28/2013 01:59 AM
The new laboratory module can enter into the ISS early as November 30
http://ria.ru/science/20130627/946170212.html#ixzz2XQOSYmpH  in russian

It is rubbish.

Now there is a coincidence. My NLR source used the exact same phrase to give his opinion on this "news".
I fully concur that article 100% rubbish and out of date.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 07/02/2013 06:35 PM
Enegria didn't think twice and was quick to jump on opportunity to blame their delay on Proton: http://interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=315994
:(
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 07/02/2013 07:32 PM
Enegria didn't think twice and was quick to jump on opportunity to blame their delay on Proton: http://interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=315994
:(
Typical of space industry. I remember how NASA blamed the 26months of delays of Aquaruis on CONAE. It's true that CONAE was 26months late. It's also true that NASA finished the main instrument just two months ahead of the bus.
I think that in every multi organization space project is akin to a game of Chicken, about who's the first admit that it's late.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 07/02/2013 09:06 PM
Enegria didn't think twice and was quick to jump on opportunity to blame their delay on Proton: http://interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=315994
:(
Annoyingly unprofessional attitude from Energia. They know MLM is going into next year anyway, regardless of what happened to Proton. Then blaming it on Proton. Shamefull.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 07/02/2013 09:22 PM
Enegria didn't think twice and was quick to jump on opportunity to blame their delay on Proton: http://interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=315994
:(
Annoyingly unprofessional attitude from Energia. They know MLM is going into next year anyway, regardless of what happened to Proton. Then blaming it on Proton. Shamefull.

Is this still applicable?

Quote
PRESS CONFERENCE WITH RUSSIAN SPACE AGENCY DIRECTOR YURI KOPTEV
 (RSA OFFICE, 14:35, NOVEMBER 5, 1999)
As for the service module, this is a special story. Why? Because this rocket was made to special specifications. We have the so-called TRKK standard for the rockets which applies to manned missions. So, this rocket was made according to this standard, that is, it bans night shifts, allows no process deviations, etc. The whole operation is carried out under special control beginning from the engine manufacture to the rocket assembly itself.
NEWS FROM MOSCOW Special Issue No. 13, November 9 , 1999
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 07/22/2013 06:06 PM
Did Energia transfer MLM to Baikonur yet?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/23/2013 03:06 AM
Did Energia transfer MLM to Baikonur yet?

No, not to my knowledge at this time and there has been mention of even preparing it to ship. Also unofficially the launch has slipped to April 2014 at the earliest.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 07/23/2013 06:49 AM
Also unofficially the launch has slipped to April 2014 at the earliest.

With Anik being the first to report the delay into 2014, I would hardly call it an unofficial slip. It may not have shown up in the L2 FPIP yet, and it may not have been publically confirmed by any NASA and Roscosmos officials, but the slip is there. Industry partners have already been told. That's how I got the slip confirmed thru several of my sources.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 07/30/2013 05:55 PM
And to follow-up on my previous post: I've just been informed by one of my sources that the recent Proton failure is now 'very likely' to add additional delay to the launch of MLM.

I'll try to get this confirmed thru at least one other source.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 07/30/2013 06:15 PM
*Sigh*

Slippety slip once again.

Still, better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: owais.usmani on 07/30/2013 06:50 PM
And to follow-up on my previous post: I've just been informed by one of my sources that the recent Proton failure is now 'very likely' to add additional delay to the launch of MLM.

I'll try to get this confirmed thru at least one other source.

you mean delay past April 2014?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 07/30/2013 07:00 PM
And to follow-up on my previous post: I've just been informed by one of my sources that the recent Proton failure is now 'very likely' to add additional delay to the launch of MLM.

I'll try to get this confirmed thru at least one other source.

you mean delay past April 2014?

Yes. One of the contractors received indications, from Russia, of such an additional delay (past April 2014) this week. And since it is only Tuesday...   :(
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 07/31/2013 02:18 AM
Yes. One of the contractors received indications, from Russia, of such an additional delay (past April 2014) this week. And since it is only Tuesday...   :(
If that's true, it will definetly delay Node module. Even current schedule (MLM in April, Node in the end of June) seems too agressive to me.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 07/31/2013 08:26 AM
Yes. One of the contractors received indications, from Russia, of such an additional delay (past April 2014) this week. And since it is only Tuesday...   :(
If that's true, it will definetly delay Node module. Even current schedule (MLM in April, Node in the end of June) seems too agressive to me.

Way too aggressive. At least one docking of a Progress to the nadir port of MLM will be needed to take the docking adapter away to clear the port for docking of the Node Module. That would be a very short Progress mission. And it can only occur after MLM has been made operational. It's not like you dock MLM to Zvezda and Progress docking to MLM nadir can occur the next week. It will take several weeks of on-orbit operations to get MLM operational.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 08/01/2013 11:49 AM
The latest rumor on the NK Forum, member Sashka_1959 write:
"Said that there is a problem, "flows" charging valve. It is necessary to cut out and replaced. Will "train" at KS (Complex mockup)."
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/01/2013 12:10 PM
The latest rumor on the NK Forum, member Sashka_1959 write:
"Said that there is a problem, "flows" charging valve. It is necessary to cut out and replaced. Will "train" at KS (Complex mockup)."

See, that's why you test the h*ll out of every component. To prevent such surprises from occuring on-orbit.
Let's hope common-sense will continue to prevail over the urge to make an impossible deadline.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/19/2013 02:57 PM
OK. Delay of the launch of MLM to spring 2014 is now being confirmed by unnamed Russian officials, as reported by SFN:

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/exp36/130816eva/#.UhIx0n-3kZY (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/exp36/130816eva/#.UhIx0n-3kZY)

Quote
The Russians originally planned to launch the MLM aboard a Proton rocket at the end of the year, but officials say the flight is expected to slip several months into the spring of 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 08/19/2013 06:48 PM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, MLM launch is planned at the end of September 2014.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 08/19/2013 07:59 PM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, MLM launch is planned at the end of September 2014.

:o

What on (or off) Earth is the reason for the delay this time? This is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 08/19/2013 08:14 PM
:o

What on (or off) Earth is the reason for the delay this time? This is getting ridiculous.
From what was said on NK forum, testing has uncovered some serious issues with fuel transfer system. There has been a meeting with all subcontractors involved, but not sure what the decision is. I'd speculate that they will need to do a major repair, but before doing it on a flight model, they'll do a rehearsal on a static mockup.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 08/19/2013 08:39 PM
From what was said on NK forum, testing has uncovered some serious issues with fuel transfer system. There has been a meeting with all subcontractors involved, but not sure what the decision is. I'd speculate that they will need to do a major repair, but before doing it on a flight model, they'll do a rehearsal on a static mockup.

Which begs the question, how was MLM able to get all the way through Khrunichev without it being noticed?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 08/19/2013 11:02 PM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, MLM launch is planned at the end of September 2014.

you must be sad just to give us this news.  :-[
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/20/2013 09:11 PM
From what was said on NK forum, testing has uncovered some serious issues with fuel transfer system. There has been a meeting with all subcontractors involved, but not sure what the decision is. I'd speculate that they will need to do a major repair, but before doing it on a flight model, they'll do a rehearsal on a static mockup.

Which begs the question, how was MLM able to get all the way through Khrunichev without it being noticed?

The same way a certain Proton got thru Khrunichev without a critical flaw being noticed.
Quality control is very clearly something Khrunichev is failing at big-time currently.
Remember the contract for the Science and Energy modules (NEM) going to Energia, in stead of Khrunichev? Word within ESA is that this happened because Khrunichev has 'very serious organizational issues'.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/20/2013 09:25 PM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, MLM launch is planned at the end of September 2014.

:o

What on (or off) Earth is the reason for the delay this time? This is getting ridiculous.

Something cannot get ridiculous when it already is ridiculous. Remember, MLM was originally scheduled to launch in 2006!
MLM is currently the laughing joke of the Russian space program. It's probably even worse than Phobos-Grunt failure.
Personally I fear the worst for the Dutch-built piece of hardware that is set to go up with MLM: ERA.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: JimO on 08/20/2013 09:34 PM
Better to catch it on the ground. I wish they had, on Fobos-Grunt.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 08/21/2013 02:28 PM
Better to catch it on the ground. I wish they had, on Fobos-Grunt.
Agreed. It would've been much worse to discover anything like that on orbit. And delays - while it's sad, we're used to them :)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 08/21/2013 03:16 PM
Remember, MLM was originally scheduled to launch in 2006!

You know, it's a good job that ISS isn't being retired in 2015 as originally planned, otherwise the current situation would warrant serious discussion as to whether it would even be worth launching MLM at all.

Word within ESA is that this happened because Khrunichev has 'very serious organizational issues'.

Well, at least MLM is out of there now, and in the relative safety of RSC-E and their (hopefully safe) Soyuz/Progress construction environment. And it's good that testing picked this new fault up - shows it's rigorous, as it needs to be.

Personally I fear the worst for the Dutch-built piece of hardware that is set to go up with MLM: ERA.

I believe you said a while back that the Dutch government will not pay for ERA storage as a result of any more delays, meaning the Russian government will need to cover storage costs as a result of this new delay? I just hope ERA gets stored properly, and not left on the floor of some dusty, leaking warehouse in order to save money.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/22/2013 08:33 PM
I believe you said a while back that the Dutch government will not pay for ERA storage as a result of any more delays, meaning the Russian government will need to cover storage costs as a result of this new delay? I just hope ERA gets stored properly, and not left on the floor of some dusty, leaking warehouse in order to save money.

As a matter of fact that scenario already played out in 2007, shortly after ERA arrived in Russia. Clearing ERA, and it's associated systems, with Russian customs took a while. In the time it took to do so the crates, in which ERA was stored, were stowed in a very dusty and leaking warehouse of the Russian customs service. Same happened to MPTE the previous year, with the MPTE systems nearly frozen when the customs warehouse turned out to be unheated. Fortunately the primary contractor, Dutch Space, had decided, last minute, to stow the critical MPTE computer systems in an extra isolated transport container. Russian customs also managed to nearly completely destroy one of the MPTE containers upon off-loading from the truck. Fortunately, the contents survived more-or-less intact.
ESA and Dutch Space learned a valuable lesson there. When ERA went to Russia the next year, all components went into extra isolated, extra reinforced transport containers with additional shock absorbers installed. Roads in Russia ain't all that great either.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 08/23/2013 10:32 AM
As per RSC Energia president Vitaliy Lopota, MLM launch is planned in April 2014, UM launch - in December 2014 and NEM-1 launch - at the end of 2017.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: owais.usmani on 08/25/2013 05:38 PM
Remember the contract for the Science and Energy modules (NEM) going to Energia, in stead of Khrunichev? Word within ESA is that this happened because Khrunichev has 'very serious organizational issues'.

If I'm not mistaken, RSC Energia is also the prime contractor for MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/26/2013 07:17 AM
Remember the contract for the Science and Energy modules (NEM) going to Energia, in stead of Khrunichev? Word within ESA is that this happened because Khrunichev has 'very serious organizational issues'.

If I'm not mistaken, RSC Energia is also the prime contractor for MLM.

As I understand it RSC Energia is prime contractor for final integration and launch readiness. The actual MLM module (think pressure hull and associated systems) comes from Khrunichev and is based on a legacy design, much like Zarya and four of the former MIR modules.
The NEM modules are now contracted to RSC Energia and will be of an entirely new design.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/26/2013 07:21 AM
As per RSC Energia president Vitaliy Lopota, MLM launch is planned in April 2014, UM launch - in December 2014 and NEM-1 launch - at the end of 2017.

He's rather late with that news. The MLM delay to april 2014 was known many weeks ago. Did he mention anything about a delay to september 2014, per the news on the NK forum?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: anik on 08/26/2013 09:50 AM
Did he mention anything about a delay to september 2014, per the news on the NK forum?

No.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/26/2013 12:49 PM
Did he mention anything about a delay to september 2014, per the news on the NK forum?

No.

Hmmm. Perhaps later then.

Update: got word of one ERA contractor that they are receiving indications from Russia for "an extended delay beyond april 2014". That seems to confirm (more-or-less) the latest delay to september 2014, per the NK forum.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: owais.usmani on 08/26/2013 06:16 PM
Did he mention anything about a delay to september 2014, per the news on the NK forum?

No.

Hmmm. Perhaps later then.


Perhaps he is waiting for next Proton failure, so that he can conveniently point finger at Khrunichev and say that because of them MLM has to be delayed.  ;)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 08/26/2013 06:24 PM
Energia requires about 18 months to outfit and test large modules they receive from Khrunichev. Trying to shorten that time period is like hoping that nine women will have one baby in one month.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/27/2013 07:36 AM
Energia requires about 18 months to outfit and test large modules they receive from Khrunichev. Trying to shorten that time period is like hoping that nine women will have one baby in one month.


Correct. And as things are standing today it looks like they will go well over that 18 month period.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Artyom. on 08/31/2013 08:53 AM
The launch is planned on April 25 2014.

http://www.rg.ru/2013/08/30/modul-anons.html (On Russian)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 08/31/2013 12:23 PM
The launch is planned on April 25 2014.

http://www.rg.ru/2013/08/30/modul-anons.html (On Russian)

Yes, and that is as reported by ITAR-TASS, the state news agency. I've learned, over the past five years not to rely on 'official' Russian news with regards to the MLM launch date. If we had, MLM would have been in orbit two years ago. Clearly, MLM is still on the ground.
All those recent official confirmations about the April 2014 launchdate only serve to confirm what was reported on the NK forum (and here) a few months ago. Right now, there is a report on NK that launch is delayed to september 2014. With every 'rumored' delay having coming true in the last five years, I'll take word on NK as gospel right now.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 09/05/2013 12:42 PM
ESA has reported in August, thru issue 155 of their ESA bulletin, that delivery of MLM to Baikonur was (then) set for December 2013, requiring a new launchdate (presumably the april 2014 date that we've been seeing lately). According to ESA Bulletin this will have an impact on the spacewalks and operations, for ERA, to be carried out by ESA astronauts Alexander Gerst (expedition 37) and Samantha Christoforetti (expedition 39) during their upcoming missions.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 09/07/2013 10:58 PM
As per Novosti kosmonavtiki forum, MLM launch is planned at the end of September 2014.

At least it's finally within sight. For me, the year-long count down finally just begun. I'm actually excited about the "delay" because it's realistic and honest. Finally, it's seriously going to launch.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 09/07/2013 11:37 PM
If MLM is actually delivered to Baikonur by December 31 2013, then the chances for launch in 2014 are good.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 09/08/2013 11:05 AM
Rotating CAD view of the MLM module and ERA
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/14/2013 05:11 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum, a couple of fuzzy views of the MLM airlock module docking system.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/14/2013 05:13 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum, a view of the interior node section:

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 10/14/2013 05:57 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum, a view of the interior node section:

I think I see how they've solved the issue of needing two different hatches (a standard drogue and a hybrid drogue) - they have simply combined the two hatches together.

The hybrid hatch (large diameter) simply has the standard drogue hatch (smaller diameter) incorporated within it, so you can open and close the standard hatch when needed, and then once the standard drogue adapter is disposed of via Progress and the hybrid port opens up, the hybrid hatch (with standard drogue hatch "within" it) can be opened as normal.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 10/14/2013 10:38 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum
Looks like they're taken from my post.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28976.msg1075669#msg1075669

a couple of fuzzy views of the MLM airlock module docking system.
Nope. The MLM airlock has four petals (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444.msg829492#msg829492), this only has three.

EDIT: No one over at the NK forum has even suggested it belongs to the MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 10/14/2013 10:41 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum
Looks like they're taken from my post.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28976.msg1075669#msg1075669

Another classic case of NSF > NK > NSF information flow. ;)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/20/2013 01:04 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum
Looks like they're taken from my post.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28976.msg1075669#msg1075669

Another classic case of NSF > NK > NSF information flow. ;)
These photos are posted in the topic "Docking mechanisms" and messages contain the words IDA SIMAC NDS USOS  http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic3125/message1128116/#message1128116 Boeing AIAA http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic3125/message1128550/#message1128550 ;D
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/20/2013 01:35 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum, a view of the interior node section:

I think I see how they've solved the issue of needing two different hatches (a standard drogue and a hybrid drogue) - they have simply combined the two hatches together.

The hybrid hatch (large diameter) simply has the standard drogue hatch (smaller diameter) incorporated within it, so you can open and close the standard hatch when needed, and then once the standard drogue adapter is disposed of via Progress and the hybrid port opens up, the hybrid hatch (with standard drogue hatch "within" it) can be opened as normal.
At the nadir port of MLM will take a few times of the Soyuz and Progress, and after that one time the module UM. This information suggests that the existing outer ring before taking the module UM is replaced by another, with the locks on the outer edge
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/20/2013 04:24 PM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 10/20/2013 07:14 PM
Courtesy of the NK forum, a view of the interior node section:

I think I see how they've solved the issue of needing two different hatches (a standard drogue and a hybrid drogue) - they have simply combined the two hatches together.

The hybrid hatch (large diameter) simply has the standard drogue hatch (smaller diameter) incorporated within it, so you can open and close the standard hatch when needed, and then once the standard drogue adapter is disposed of via Progress and the hybrid port opens up, the hybrid hatch (with standard drogue hatch "within" it) can be opened as normal.
At the nadir port of MLM will take a few times of the Soyuz and Progress, and after that one time the module UM. This information suggests that the existing outer ring before taking the module UM is replaced by another, with the locks on the outer edge
it is my understanding that once the adapter ring has fininshed its job it UM is to use the passive docking ring that has had the APAS petals and some other APAS systems removed and/or replaced with systems compatible with the UM module design. Also the UM Zenith hatch design allows for future conversion of the docking port from active hybrid to passive hybrid. to allow for a new module to dock in active mode when the time comes to replace MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: owais.usmani on 10/20/2013 07:39 PM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/21/2013 04:34 AM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
It seems that the fuel system has big problems  :(
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235
"Began to draw a plan to launch in September 2015"
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: owais.usmani on 10/21/2013 05:27 AM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
It seems that the fuel system has big problems  :(
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235
"Began to draw a plan to launch in September 2015"

okay so actual launch will be sometime in 2016.

This is getting ridiculous by the moment.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/21/2013 06:44 AM
This is getting ridiculous by the moment.
It's not ridiculous, it's sad.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: owais.usmani on 10/21/2013 06:53 AM
This is getting ridiculous by the moment.
It's not ridiculous, it's sad.

Ridiculously Sad!
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/21/2013 07:02 AM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
It seems that the fuel system has big problems  :(
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235
"Began to draw a plan to launch in September 2015"

Excuse me fellows. But just how reliable is this information? There have been a few screw-ups at the NK forum lately, that have me wondering how reliable the info is that is coming from NK.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/21/2013 07:20 PM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039 (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039)

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
It seems that the fuel system has big problems  :(
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235 (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235)
"Began to draw a plan to launch in September 2015"

Excuse me fellows. But just how reliable is this information? There have been a few screw-ups at the NK forum lately, that have me wondering how reliable the info is that is coming from NK.
If I was in charge of the ESA I would just pick up that fine robotic arm and send it to NASA for use on the sure with the changes being planned it could be used.   Better to get years worth of use than collecting dust.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/21/2013 07:24 PM
This is getting ridiculous by the moment.
It's not ridiculous, it's sad.

Ridiculously Sad!
Time for someone to make a major call.   Time to take a welders torch to the MLM and remove the fuel handling system and get her launched as is.  Rebuild a fuel system into a brand new module.  Thought this was the plan from the last administrator?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: JazzFan on 10/21/2013 11:58 PM
I don't see it as that big a deal to many on the Russian side.  They have a short term plan for use of the module for use with ISS and alternate long term plan for use with OPSEK.  Either way it will fly and eventually provide science on some orbital platform as planned and justify the expense in its cost.  The node module can sit in storage and NEM-1 has quite a bit of time before it will actually be ready.  As with most delays there is disappointment in the flight date for some, but better to get it right if there is a true design issue.  This is not a time bound contract.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/22/2013 12:03 AM
Time for someone to make a major call.   Time to take a welders torch to the MLM and remove the fuel handling system and get her launched as is.  Rebuild a fuel system into a brand new module.  Thought this was the plan from the last administrator?

If the prop lines are removed from MLM, there really won't be another module that can accommodate the required prop for ISS,  as no prop could flow from Zvezda to anything docked with MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/22/2013 05:50 AM
But just how reliable is this information? There have been a few screw-ups at the NK forum lately, that have me wondering how reliable the info is that is coming from NK.
Last message about the timing looks like insider reports rumors floating in a nearby subdivision. About the case in his subdivision are usually silent.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/22/2013 08:19 AM
Запуск многоцелевого лабораторного модуля к МКС может быть перенесен на год-полтора
http://www.interfax.ru/world/news.asp?id=336233
 :(
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/22/2013 09:49 AM
Запуск многоцелевого лабораторного модуля к МКС может быть перенесен на год-полтора
http://www.interfax.ru/world/news.asp?id=336233
 :(

Yup. That looks like confirmation. Sheesh: A delay between a year to 18 months. So, the new lauchdate will be somewhere between April 2015 and October 2015.

I can only hope that this time the correct heads will roll over this one. :(
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/22/2013 09:54 AM
September 2015 in range
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/22/2013 10:16 AM
I just spoke to one of my ERA sources. An acquintance of him had had a little conversation with the ESA projectmanager for ERA (Phillip Schoonejans) on october 6th. Mr. Schoonejans had stated then that the launchdate for MLM was still december 8, 2013.
That goes to show just how ill-informed even some of the insiders within ESA are. Because it had already been reported in ESA's very own ESA bulletin (issue 155, september 2013) that the launchdate for MLM had been postponed.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/22/2013 10:19 AM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039 (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039)

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
It seems that the fuel system has big problems  :(
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235 (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235)
"Began to draw a plan to launch in September 2015"

Excuse me fellows. But just how reliable is this information? There have been a few screw-ups at the NK forum lately, that have me wondering how reliable the info is that is coming from NK.
If I was in charge of the ESA I would just pick up that fine robotic arm and send it to NASA for use on the sure with the changes being planned it could be used.   Better to get years worth of use than collecting dust.

Sorry Prober, but NASA has no use for ERA. The end-effector is unique for the grapple fixtures on the new RS segments. Also, the needed computers are designed to interact with the central control system of the RS only. ERA cannot be controlled from the USOS. Much like the SSRMS cannot be controlled from the RS.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/22/2013 12:56 PM
I just spoke to one of my ERA sources. An acquintance of him had had a little conversation with the ESA projectmanager for ERA (Phillip Schoonejans) on october 6th. Mr. Schoonejans had stated then that the launchdate for MLM was still december 8, 2013.
That goes to show just how ill-informed even some of the insiders within ESA are. Because it had already been reported in ESA's very own ESA bulletin (issue 155, september 2013) that the launchdate for MLM had been postponed.

Your information is making the sad news even more of a concern.   My guess is that NASA is not up to date on this as well.  ???

Believe its time the ISS partners sit down and have some new conditions locked down.    Speaking for myself; can't see the time, effort, and costs involved with US EVA's prepping for new Russian Hardware that's not going to fully be installed for some years to come, if ever.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/22/2013 01:00 PM
Time for someone to make a major call.   Time to take a welders torch to the MLM and remove the fuel handling system and get her launched as is.  Rebuild a fuel system into a brand new module.  Thought this was the plan from the last administrator?

If the prop lines are removed from MLM, there really won't be another module that can accommodate the required prop for ISS,  as no prop could flow from Zvezda to anything docked with MLM.

I no longer believe the MLM is designed for use with the ISS.     Its being dragged out for use with OPSEK.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 10/22/2013 02:14 PM
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 10/22/2013 04:01 PM
So, working with the US costs too much money, and working with Russia takes too much time.  Which bed would ESA rather sleep in? :)

On a related note, didn't the Dutch say that they would pull funding if the ERA wasn't launched by the end of 2013?  What happens now?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 10/22/2013 04:24 PM
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(
I am going to start a discussion thread for it.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 10/22/2013 04:28 PM
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(
I am going to start a discussion thread for it.
Done! I hope that you are happy Space Pete.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/22/2013 05:53 PM
So, working with the US costs too much money, and working with Russia takes too much time.  Which bed would ESA rather sleep in? :)

On a related note, didn't the Dutch say that they would pull funding if the ERA wasn't launched by the end of 2013?  What happens now?
They have already done so. No funding for ERA from 2014 onwards.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/22/2013 06:40 PM
So, working with the US costs too much money, and working with Russia takes too much time.  Which bed would ESA rather sleep in? :)

On a related note, didn't the Dutch say that they would pull funding if the ERA wasn't launched by the end of 2013?  What happens now?
They have already done so. No funding for ERA from 2014 onwards.

Wonder how that is going to go over in Russia?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/22/2013 07:09 PM
It gets worse:


http://ria.ru/space/20131022/971916727.html#ixzz2iTJZ1JfF

18 extra months.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/22/2013 07:37 PM
It gets worse:


http://ria.ru/space/20131022/971916727.html#ixzz2iTJZ1JfF

18 extra months.
Lopota said that still has not been signed a formal decision on the transfer module
IMHO The value of the delayed module launch, the journalists were taken at the NK Forum ;)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/22/2013 07:56 PM
It gets worse:


http://ria.ru/space/20131022/971916727.html#ixzz2iTJZ1JfF

18 extra months.

No it doesn't. This article just basically points to the same 18 month delay that was reported by Interfax. However, RIA reports that, according to RSC Energia boss Vitaly Lopota, there is no paperwork (or plan) approved yet for a return of MLM to Khrunichev.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/22/2013 08:41 PM
It gets worse:


http://ria.ru/space/20131022/971916727.html#ixzz2iTJZ1JfF

18 extra months.

No it doesn't. This article just basically points to the same 18 month delay that was reported by Interfax. However, RIA reports that, according to RSC Energia boss Vitaly Lopota, there is no paperwork (or plan) approved yet for a return of MLM to Khrunichev.


Yeah, I meant that Lopota's confirmation of the lack of paperwork ensures that there will be an 18 month delay.

On the other hand, we can forget about all those stories of launching MLM without all of its' systems installed, because there is now lots of time to fit everything into the module while they work out the latest problem.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 10/23/2013 01:14 AM
Could it happen that they are evaluating giving the work of reworking the plumbing to Energyia? If I was Roscosmos I would want blood.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 10/24/2013 04:47 PM
Khrunichev requested 10 months to clean up the fuel system
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039 (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143039/#message1143039)

So launch in 2015 then.  ::)
It seems that the fuel system has big problems  :(
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235 (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum10/topic4335/message1143235/#message1143235)
"Began to draw a plan to launch in September 2015"

Excuse me fellows. But just how reliable is this information? There have been a few screw-ups at the NK forum lately, that have me wondering how reliable the info is that is coming from NK.
If I was in charge of the ESA I would just pick up that fine robotic arm and send it to NASA for use on the sure with the changes being planned it could be used.   Better to get years worth of use than collecting dust.

Sorry Prober, but NASA has no use for ERA. The end-effector is unique for the grapple fixtures on the new RS segments. Also, the needed computers are designed to interact with the central control system of the RS only. ERA cannot be controlled from the USOS. Much like the SSRMS cannot be controlled from the RS.
And what if ESA proposed to use it for a DSH? A lot of integration work would have to be redone, but a lot less than a new arm design. And that might squeeze a Dutch in deep space. I know Holland doesn't want to spend that much, but to put just a fraction of the money needed to put a Dutchman on a Moon mission, this might change their minds.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 10/24/2013 06:01 PM
LINK: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2013

MLM module faces lengthy delays

During 2013, the launch of the MLM module was re-scheduled to April and then to June 2014. In the meantime, tests of the MLM at RKK Energia revealed a leaking fueling valve within the propulsion system of the spacecraft. The damage was serious enough to require a complex procedure of cutting away the valve and welding in a new one. Before committing to the repairs, engineers had to practice it on a full-scale prototype of the MLM module known in Russian as Kompleksny Stend, KS.

Further inspections of MLM at RKK Energia apparently found contamination inside the propulsion system, which would require a lengthy cleaning. According to some reports, it would take up to 10 months to resolve all the issues with the spacecraft.

As a result, it was decided to return the MLM back to GKNPTs Khrunichev for repairs. On Oct. 22, 2013, the Interfax news agency reported that all the repairs at GKNPTs Khrunichev would take a year and a half to complete. According to a poster on the online forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine, latest plans called for the launch of the MLM module in September 2015. The head of RKK Energia Vitaly Lopota told the RIA Novosti news agency that no decision for the return of the module back to GKNPTs Khrunichev had been made yet. At the same time, Lopota admitted that he had not certified the spacecraft for launch.

To make matters worse, the European Space Agency, ESA, responsible for the ERA mechanical arm onboard the MLM module reportedly had enough with all the delays and resulting cost overruns. ESA reportedly refused funding for the program beginning from 2014 onwards. As a result, the Russian government would likely have to pick up the tab for all further cost increases in the project.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/24/2013 06:52 PM
Time for someone to make a major call.   Time to take a welders torch to the MLM and remove the fuel handling system and get her launched as is.  Rebuild a fuel system into a brand new module.  Thought this was the plan from the last administrator?

If the prop lines are removed from MLM, there really won't be another module that can accommodate the required prop for ISS,  as no prop could flow from Zvezda to anything docked with MLM.

Sure they can if you think on it.    Just alter a production Progress to a fuel only system.    It doesn't take 10 years to do something creative.   

Edit: Just watched the Proton launch and it gave me another idea.    Proton's are in storage and Britz-M's are in storage.   Adapt one of those for fuel storage and get it done.  No excuses.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: NovaSilisko on 10/26/2013 08:25 AM
I seriously cannot comprehend how this thing has repeatedly gone so horribly wrong for over a decade now... When/if the thing finally does launch, I kinda expect Proton to just gracefully faceplant into the launch site... again.

I'm curious what, if any, excuse, might be given (or maybe has been already?) to justify all the crap that's gone on with this module.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/26/2013 01:58 PM
I seriously cannot comprehend how this thing has repeatedly gone so horribly wrong for over a decade now... When/if the thing finally does launch, I kinda expect Proton to just gracefully faceplant into the launch site... again.

I'm curious what, if any, excuse, might be given (or maybe has been already?) to justify all the crap that's gone on with this module.

Lot's of reasons:
- Corruption at the contractors
- Substantial part of the experienced workforce at the contractors have retired, without properly training replacements (Brain drain)
- Lack of 'drive' that existed in the old work-force. The old work-force was proud of their work. Their replacements mostly don't have that drive; indifference is commonplace in the Russian space program these days.
- Lack of adequate funding of the Russian space program ever since the Iron Curtain came down
- Re-use of an existing module. Turning the FGB spare into MLM has proven to be more expensive than having had to construct an all new one.
- Organizational problems at the main contractor (Khrunichev)
- The constant changing-of-the-guard at Roscosmos
- etc. etc.

Parts of the Russian space program are in deep, deep trouble. MLM is just one of the victims.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/26/2013 02:47 PM
Let me elaborate a little more on this problem.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russian economy was abruptly converted to Capitalism.  Many new companies were created along Western capitalist principles and standards. However, the aerospace giants were not really converted, except that their employees were awarded some shares. So, the wages and benefits of the large aerospace companies were maintained as they had been under the Soviet Union, which meant that wages were not comparable to those in the new Capitalist economy. So, long time workers didn't make nearly as much as their friends who were working in the new companies. On the other hand, the benefits offered in the old aerospace companies were much better, so although workers may not have made a lot of cash, they had effectively free housing and medical.

At the same time, the amount of actual funding from taxpayers that flowed to the aerospace companies was a fraction of what was promised, or required. In some cases, production of necessary systems had to come from within the aerospace companies, not from the government. In this case, the government would promise cash, but when push came to shove, the aerospace companies were required to produce without funding, on the basis of their very existence was due to the government (which effectively controlled them), and so they  were required to deliver hardware without funding.

As the wage structure in Russia increased, the aerospace companies did not have the cash to compete, so they were finding that their younger and middle aged employees were leaving for newer companies outside of aerospace, leaving as their employee base either very old employees, or very young employees - the middle aged tier was mostly gone. What this meant was that the experience that normally would be conveyed from older engineers as they passed on was not being transmitted to people that had the experience themselves to understand the information that was being transmitted.

Because Russian aerospace engineering is fundamentally different from NASA practices, the loss of top management to age and illness is a more significant problem. Whereas NASA uses systems engineering with lots of documentation, Russia uses a stovepipe system where key information resides in the heads of top management with little documentation. When Russian aerospace is led by brilliant management, the lack of documentation is an asset, as projects can speed right along; when leadership is not so good, things tend to fall apart quickly.  If you look at Russian engineering documents here on L2, you can see the differences with comparable NASA practices, the Russians make a stab at systems design, but do not implement it fully even today.

For the Russians to save their aerospace industry, they must allocate the resources so that middle tier employees can make a decent wage comparable to the "outside world". Or, they can let nature take its course, let things complete fall apart, and then start over again. In the latter case, there may not be a real natural requirement for  such a large aerospace industry.




Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/26/2013 02:48 PM
Sure they can if you think on it.    Just alter a production Progress to a fuel only system.    It doesn't take 10 years to do something creative.   

Edit: Just watched the Proton launch and it gave me another idea.    Proton's are in storage and Britz-M's are in storage.   Adapt one of those for fuel storage and get it done.  No excuses.

There are a million ways to design a vehicle that can manage prop at ISS. The problem is that MLM also is designed to meet other requirements at ISS which the designs mentioned above cannot meet.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: NovaSilisko on 10/26/2013 06:44 PM
Thanks for the explanations, woods/danderman. It's a shame this mess has gone on for as long as it has.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/26/2013 06:48 PM
What would be quicker than trying to fix MLM would be to allocate one of the two NEMs (power modules) as the MLM replacement (and budgeting for a 3rd NEM). A clean slate design at this point would probably be more successful than risking launch of a potentially fatally flawed MLM.

Yes, I know that would be bad for ERA.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Stan Black on 10/26/2013 07:10 PM
What would be quicker than trying to fix MLM would be to allocate one of the two NEMs (power modules) as the MLM replacement (and budgeting for a 3rd NEM). A clean slate design at this point would probably be more successful than risking launch of a potentially fatally flawed MLM.

Yes, I know that would be bad for ERA.

There is only to be one NEM (at the moment)
http://www.ria.ru/science/20130326/929058475.html
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: NovaSilisko on 10/26/2013 11:19 PM
So what might happen to the nodal module if MLM gets canned after being delayed for so long? Kept on hand until a suitable module arrives at MLM's former docking point?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: SMS on 10/27/2013 05:58 AM
Roskosmos official film...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3q02vQugqRg
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/27/2013 02:01 PM
LINK: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2013 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2013)

<snip>

To make matters worse, the European Space Agency, ESA, responsible for the ERA mechanical arm onboard the MLM module reportedly had enough with all the delays and resulting cost overruns. ESA reportedly refused funding for the program beginning from 2014 onwards. As a result, the Russian government would likely have to pick up the tab for all further cost increases in the project.

I hope that this is not Russianspaceweb.com's interpretation of what I stated up-thread. ESA funding for ERA comes from more countries than just the Netherlands. Fifty percent of the budget for ERA is provided by the Netherlands, the other 50% comes from other ESA member states. The fact that the Netherlands has killed funding from ERA from 2014 onwards does not mean that the other contributors have done the same. So, at best, half the budget for ERA has disappeared starting January 1st, 2014.

Still, losing half the funds puts the program in trouble.

One of my sources suggested that the Dutch USOC funds might be used to compensate. However, that would leave Dutch Space with the following choice:
- Continue to provide engineering support for ERA
OR
- Use the Dutch USOC funds for their intended purpose: to fund the construction of solar arrays for the MPCV ESM.

Guess one time what the choice will be...

Theoretically other ESA member states could come up with funds to make up for the loss of the Dutch funding. But that seems unlikely. The other ESA member states are just as much cash-strapped.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: npuentes on 10/28/2013 05:45 AM
And then there is this press release from yesterday (October 27): http://www.federalspace.ru/19941/

There is no mention of any MLM delay. Does the left hand not know what the right is doing, or is there just some denial in some quarters on the major problems?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 10/28/2013 06:18 AM
And then there is this press release from yesterday (October 27): http://www.federalspace.ru/19941/ (http://www.federalspace.ru/19941/)

There is no mention of any MLM delay. Does the left hand not know what the right is doing, or is there just some denial in some quarters on the major problems?

No, this is typical for how Roscosmos handles bad news with regards to MLM. First they act like nothing happened. That's the press release from yesterday. Then, some time from now some journalist will get hold of the Roscosmos top-boss and ask him about the rumoured delays. The Roscosmos official will deny the delay. Then, again some time later, a lower-placed Roscosmos official will unofficially confirm the rumoured delay. And if we're real lucky Roscosmos will issue another press-release several months later, with the new launchdate, and acting as if that new launchdate has been the targeted launchdate all along.

Why do I know this? Well, it's been the MO for at least the previous 3 major delays to the MLM launchdate. I don't see why that would change now.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/30/2013 01:31 AM
And then there is this press release from yesterday (October 27): http://www.federalspace.ru/19941/ (http://www.federalspace.ru/19941/)

There is no mention of any MLM delay. Does the left hand not know what the right is doing, or is there just some denial in some quarters on the major problems?

No, this is typical for how Roscosmos handles bad news with regards to MLM. First they act like nothing happened. That's the press release from yesterday. Then, some time from now some journalist will get hold of the Roscosmos top-boss and ask him about the rumoured delays. The Roscosmos official will deny the delay. Then, again some time later, a lower-placed Roscosmos official will unofficially confirm the rumoured delay. And if we're real lucky Roscosmos will issue another press-release several months later, with the new launchdate, and acting as if that new launchdate has been the targeted launchdate all along.

Why do I know this? Well, it's been the MO for at least the previous 3 major delays to the MLM launchdate. I don't see why that would change now.



Precisely.

In the meantime, Energia is saying that they have no clue when this thing will go, the plan is to fix the defects and then set a launch date:

http://ria.ru/space/20131028/973076349.html
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 10/30/2013 01:39 AM
Must the MLM be on orbit before the ISS can transition to 7 crew?  I seem to recall that the third Russian crew quarters is (or will be) aboard MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/30/2013 03:29 AM
Must the MLM be on orbit before the ISS can transition to 7 crew?  I seem to recall that the third Russian crew quarters is (or will be) aboard MLM.
To 7 crew primarily need new lifeboats with a capacity of 4 people.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/30/2013 03:35 AM
Must the MLM be on orbit before the ISS can transition to 7 crew?  I seem to recall that the third Russian crew quarters is (or will be) aboard MLM.
To 7 crew primarily need new lifeboats with a capacity of 4 people.

To be clear, 7 person occupancy of ISS requires both escape vehicles that could carry 7 people as well as life support that can support 7 persons.

It is probably beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether ISS could support 7 crew without the MLM.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 10/30/2013 04:39 AM
Well, this is the MLM thread.  Where else would such a question go?

And my question was whether MLM was necessary for 7 crew.  Whether or not MLM is necessary does not imply that it is sufficient.  Obviously, a 4-person lifeboat is also necessary.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: 360-180 on 10/30/2013 05:35 AM
Whether or not MLM is necessary does not imply that it is sufficient.
IMHO an increase in the crew up to 7 persons should occur in the following order:
1. lifeboats. Soyuz gives the quantum number of crew =3 people. 3-6-9. So need a lifeboat for 4 or 7 people.
2. life support for 7 people
3. comfortable working conditions for the crew.
- CQ in MLM is the seventh CQ on the ISS
- WC in MLM will keep condition - no more than three people on one toilet.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 10/30/2013 06:41 PM
It gets worse:


http://ria.ru/space/20131022/971916727.html#ixzz2iTJZ1JfF

18 extra months.

No it doesn't. This article just basically points to the same 18 month delay that was reported by Interfax. However, RIA reports that, according to RSC Energia boss Vitaly Lopota, there is no paperwork (or plan) approved yet for a return of MLM to Khrunichev.


Yeah, I meant that Lopota's confirmation of the lack of paperwork ensures that there will be an 18 month delay.

On the other hand, we can forget about all those stories of launching MLM without all of its' systems installed, because there is now lots of time to fit everything into the module while they work out the latest problem.

Ah, a silver lining!
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 10/30/2013 07:02 PM
You know, the Bering Straits tunnel is actually making more progress. The tunnel has been approved for long term funding and the rail line feeding the tunnel from the Russian side is actually under construction.

I wonder which will be finished first. I say this sarcastically, of course.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Prober on 10/30/2013 07:05 PM
Must the MLM be on orbit before the ISS can transition to 7 crew?  I seem to recall that the third Russian crew quarters is (or will be) aboard MLM.
To 7 crew primarily need new lifeboats with a capacity of 4 people.

To be clear, 7 person occupancy of ISS requires both escape vehicles that could carry 7 people as well as life support that can support 7 persons.

It is probably beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether ISS could support 7 crew without the MLM.

Looks like a 7 person crew is another item that won't happen anytime in the near future.   It could be done with the MLM as is (fuel fix see my posts above) and a third Soyuz.   That could be done.  But the other factor is the ATV & HTV are on their way out, so it the possible 7 person crew.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 10/30/2013 07:37 PM
Current ECLSS can handle 7 crew. Need US Crew Vehicle to serve as escape boat, and the MLM to have the extra CQ. Since the US Crew Vehicle is still the pacing item, no hurry there. I understand that MLM will be fundamental in balancing the power usage, since currently the RS is using a lot of the USOS'. Some experiments, like VASIMR, will need a lot of power. And I understand it will be the workhorse of the RS science output. So any delays means years of lost science that they won't get back.
BTW, ATV and HTV won't be such a huge loss, since Progress-MS will be able to carry a lot more fuel, and the CRS can increase the output and bring much needed downmass capability. The actual problem will be ESA and JAXA paying their share.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 10/31/2013 03:21 AM
The actual problem will be ESA and JAXA paying their share.

Nobody pays their share, it is all barter. When HTV and ATV end, I have no idea how JAXA and ESA will continue their participation.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: asmi on 10/31/2013 12:08 PM
Nobody pays their share, it is all barter. When HTV and ATV end, I have no idea how JAXA and ESA will continue their participation.
Well payment is always an option. Will they be actually willing to do that is another story though.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 10/31/2013 05:41 PM
The actual problem will be ESA and JAXA paying their share.

Nobody pays their share, it is all barter. When HTV and ATV end, I have no idea how JAXA and ESA will continue their participation.
Semantics, they pay through barter. ESA is doing the Orion's SM. England put extra money on the SM to get an astronaut on the ISS. JAXA still has to define how they'll pay for theirs. But since they'll supply upto HTV-7, they have a couple of extra years covered. My guess is that they'll pay through MB-60 for the SLS LUT, but that's just my speculation. What's interesting is what are the US bartering for their power. If MLM keeps getting late, Commercial Crew might be a reality and NASA might start to drive a hard bargain (like Roscosmos did with Soyuz). 
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Danderman on 11/27/2013 02:42 PM
http://ria.ru/space/20131127/980030598.html

The official notification to NASA that MLM will not be launched in 2014.

No idea when it will be launched.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 11/27/2013 02:57 PM
Abysmul. Am starting to doubt that I'll ever see MLM in space.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: BrightLight on 11/27/2013 03:06 PM
http://ria.ru/space/20131127/980030598.html

The official notification to NASA that MLM will not be launched in 2014.

No idea when it will be launched.
The site is in Russian (Cyrillic) and i can't translate the page - I am assuming it follows the thread discussion which is to say  - it ain't goin up anytime soon - just great, lovely.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PahTo on 11/27/2013 03:06 PM

Bummer, but I think many here aren't surprised.
I know work has been done on PIRS to "deactivate" it in preparation for deorbit and arrival of MLM, but has PIRS lost any primary functionality--such as airlock for EVA (which I believe it was used for recently for the Sochi photo op) or as a docking port?  Seems to me it's all been experiement mounts and the Strela stuff, but no cabling or other stuff critical to functioning as it has.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/27/2013 04:50 PM
http://ria.ru/space/20131127/980030598.html

The official notification to NASA that MLM will not be launched in 2014.

No idea when it will be launched.
Anik has it as: September 2015 (TBD) - Nauka launch
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Fuji on 11/28/2013 01:22 AM
Roscosmos postpones launch of ISS Multipurpose Laboratory Module (Part 2) (English News)
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?id=462390

Quote
Roscosmos has made an official decision to postpone the launch of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) for the International Space Station (ISS) and return it for improvement, Alexei Krasnov, the head of manned programs at Roscosmos, said.

"We have informed our partners that the MLM will apparently not appear in orbit in 2014," Krasnov told reporters, responding to a question from Interfax-AVN.

Krasnov that said Roscosmos had received an official notification on November 8 from Vitaly Lopota, general constructor and president of the rocket and space corporation Energiya, on the problems that had been discovered with the module, "which will most likely lead to changes in the dates of sending the module to the testing ground and its launch."

An official decision to return the module to the Khrunichev Space Center has been made.

"The decision has been made. We will be working on it," Krasnov said.

Krasnov added that Russia had informed its foreign partners of the postponement of the launch on November 20 during an official ceremony for celebrating the 15th anniversary of the beginning of the construction of the ISS.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 11/28/2013 06:40 AM
Well, the recent news makes official what many of us have been suspecting since the trouble with the fuel transfer system was first reported in late august; yet another delay, and a lenghty one at that.

Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Space Pete on 11/28/2013 09:37 AM
So Khrunichev mess MLM up in the first place, and now the people trusted to fix it are....Khrunichev. They'll probably get paid to sort out their own mess, too.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 11/28/2013 10:34 AM
So Khrunichev mess MLM up in the first place, and now the people trusted to fix it are....Khrunichev. They'll probably get paid to sort out their own mess, too.

I can only hope that from this moment forward all work done at Khrunichev is performed under the watchfull eyes of representatives and quality-control engineers from both RSC Energia and Roscosmos. Khrunichev has very much showed that their quality-control system has failed. Remember the upside-down motion sensors on that Proton rocket? That was another example of major shortcomings in Khrunichev's quality-control system.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 11/28/2013 03:02 PM
Haven't Roscosmos given the next two module to Energyia? That was the first time that Khrunichev didn't do a station module in history. I guess it was because some of this was known, or at least suspected.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/28/2013 07:23 PM
Haven't Roscosmos given the next two module to Energyia? That was the first time that Khrunichev didn't do a station module in history. I guess it was because some of this was known, or at least suspected.
So far Everything is to be built by RSC Energia starting Progress-UM onwards so far.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 11/29/2013 06:48 AM
Haven't Roscosmos given the next two module to Energyia? That was the first time that Khrunichev didn't do a station module in history. I guess it was because some of this was known, or at least suspected.

There is a rumour inside ESA that the NEM modules went to RSC Energia specifically because Khrunichev caused delay-upon-delay to the MLM module. It was mostly Khrunichev-induced delays that had MLM move from it's 2009 launch date to where it is now.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: woods170 on 11/29/2013 08:23 AM
A few more details that just trickled in via one of my sources:

- MLM fuel transfer system: much more work involved than just replacement of a few valves and cleaning of the system. It now looks like a substantial part of the fuel tranfer system will have to be completely replaced due to "deteriorated state of the plumbing".
- MLM electrical system: per the tests performed at RSC Energia; numerous defects were located in the electrical system. Several parts of the electrical system will have to completely replaced, with many other parts requiring repairs and correction of errors.

Not good...
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: manboy on 11/29/2013 10:05 AM
A few more details that just trickled in via one of my sources:

- MLM fuel transfer system: much more work involved than just replacement of a few valves and cleaning of the system. It now looks like a substantial part of the fuel tranfer system will have to be completely replaced due to "deteriorated state of the plumbing".
- MLM electrical system: per the tests performed at RSC Energia; numerous defects were located in the electrical system. Several parts of the electrical system will have to completely replaced, with many other parts requiring repairs and correction of errors.

Not good...
As frustrating as this all is I still prefer that these problems were found prior to launch.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: Velomir on 11/29/2013 03:16 PM
I can imagine ESA is very angry with this development. More delays and the ERA will be transferred to Tiangong-2 ;)
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: JazzFan on 11/29/2013 03:30 PM
I can imagine ESA is very angry with this development. More delays and the ERA will be transferred to Tiangong-2 ;)

The robotic arm on Tiangong 2 may see flight before the one on MLM at this rate.  The slow methodical turtle wins the race over the poorly built hare.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/29/2013 03:43 PM
Stay on topic people this is an Updates thread so place your discussions here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33127.0
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: PeterAlt on 11/30/2013 05:38 AM
If anyone needs a silver lining to feel "better" about the delays...


Think of it this way. Because of the delays, there will be less "wait" between launches of follow-up modules, specifically Node and NEM-1. In a worse case scenario, NEM-2 could be ready right after NEM-1 launches. I prefer rapid assembly versus stretching it out over a long time period.
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: baldusi on 11/30/2013 06:43 PM
BTW, do we have any thread on the NEM-1/2? At least an expected schedule?
Title: Re: Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module Update
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/30/2013 09:40 PM
BTW, do we have any thread on the NEM-1/2? At least an expected schedule?
Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):
2015
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
November (TBD) – Nauka – Proton-M – Baikonur

2016
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
May (TBD) – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur

2017
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
end of year – NEM-1 – Proton-M – Baikonur

2018
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
TBD – NEM-2 – Proton-M (or Angara-A5 (TBD)) – Baikonur (or Vostochniy (TBD))
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Danderman on 12/17/2013 02:41 PM
http://itar-tass.com/nauka/836663

This says that Roskosmos will decide in March 2014 when MLM will be launched.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Prober on 12/17/2013 02:56 PM
http://itar-tass.com/nauka/836663

This says that Roskosmos will decide in March 2014 when MLM will be launched.

Quick someone set up a poll, I say they cancel it.  ;D
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 12/17/2013 07:22 PM
http://itar-tass.com/nauka/836663

This says that Roskosmos will decide in March 2014 when MLM will be launched.


Correct. Chris reported this in L2 several days ago.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: anik on 12/19/2013 07:36 AM
The head of department of piloted programs of Roskosmos Aleksey Krasnov has told today to Interfax news agency that MLM will depart RSC Energia on the weekend and arrive to Khrunichev on the next week.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Artyom. on 01/01/2014 06:20 AM
The Multipurpose Laboratory Module returned to Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center for troubleshooting.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news/349891 (In Russian)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Danderman on 01/02/2014 04:48 PM
The Multipurpose Laboratory Module returned to Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center for troubleshooting.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news/349891 (In Russian)

Expect launch about one year after return to RSC Energia; normally this would take 18 months, but I expect some work has already been performed by Energia.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/03/2014 11:08 AM
The Multipurpose Laboratory Module returned to Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center for troubleshooting.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news/349891 (http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news/349891) (In Russian)

Expect launch about one year after return to RSC Energia; normally this would take 18 months, but I expect some work has already been performed by Energia.


Source says that upon return from Khrunichev the whole pre-launch processing at Energia, including all the testing and final integration items, will be re-done completely. My bet is that the 18 months will stay.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: anik on 01/03/2014 10:21 PM
Source says that upon return from Khrunichev the whole pre-launch processing at Energia, including all the testing and final integration items, will be re-done completely

It was stated many times by RSC Energia's president Vitaliy Lopota that MLM will not return to Energia. It will go to Baikonur and all tests will be repeated there during nine months.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/06/2014 11:42 AM
Source says that upon return from Khrunichev the whole pre-launch processing at Energia, including all the testing and final integration items, will be re-done completely

It was stated many times by RSC Energia's president Vitaliy Lopota that MLM will not return to Energia. It will go to Baikonur and all tests will be repeated there during nine months.

Quite a difference from what my ESA source tells me. Time will tell what path will be taken.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: eeergo on 01/06/2014 02:50 PM
Is there a public position on the issue with ERA?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/07/2014 06:11 AM
Is there a public position on the issue with ERA?
ERA is officially an ESA mission, but ownership of the flight hardware and training hardware was released to the Russians years ago. Getting ERA into orbit is primarily the responsibility of the Russians with ESA providing technical support. In orbit validation and check-out is a combined responsibility of the Russians and ESA. All subsequent missions for ERA are the full responsibility of the Russians, with ESA providing technical back-up support.
Cosmonaut training on ERA has been the full responsibility of the Russians for years now, with ESA (again) providing technical back-up support.
ESA can only sit and wait for the Russians to finally launch ERA to the ISS.
However, up until last year the Netherlands (via it's ESA membership) payed a good portion of the cost op upkeep and storage of the ERA hardware. Starting from 2014 this contribution has terminated so that the Russians are now also fully financially responsible for ERA operations. Only the technical back-up support by ESA is supported from the ESA budget now.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: eeergo on 01/07/2014 02:07 PM
Thanks, that clears up the situation. I asked since last year it looked like Russia wasn't very keen on providing that funding, and the Netherlands always ended up with a compromise agreement to shoulder the costs. It seemed impossible to me though, that a further 2-year extension of that support would be accepted after the inevitability of MLM's return to Khrunichev was clear. I didn't know ERA was fully owned by Russia nowadays either.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 03/15/2014 01:45 PM
MLM mockup in TsPK's Hydrolab.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: anik on 03/18/2014 06:47 AM
From new ESA Bulletin:

Because of an issue with cleanliness of the fuel transfer lines of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM), launch has been delayed and is planned for November 2015. The MLM was moved back from RSC Energia to Khrunichev at the end of December. Khrunichev is expected to produce a plan for resolution of the problems with the MLM’s leaking and contaminated propulsion system by mid-March and RSC Energia should publish an overall schedule, including a launch date, by the end of March. In the meantime, the ERA FM electrical and software integration has been completed.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 03/18/2014 07:42 AM
From new ESA Bulletin:

Because of an issue with cleanliness of the fuel transfer lines of the Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM), launch has been delayed and is planned for November 2015. The MLM was moved back from RSC Energia to Khrunichev at the end of December. Khrunichev is expected to produce a plan for resolution of the problems with the MLM’s leaking and contaminated propulsion system by mid-March and RSC Energia should publish an overall schedule, including a launch date, by the end of March. In the meantime, the ERA FM electrical and software integration has been completed.
Interesting piece of information:  "MLM's leaking and contaminated propulsion system". We knew about the contaminated part, but the leaky bit is new.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/12/2014 03:51 PM
RSC Energia boss Vitaly Lopota said in an interview yesterday (http://itar-tass.com/opinions/interviews/2065) that the MLM is "unlikely" to fly in 2015.  (Khrunichev will decide by this month how to fix the module - which may take up to one year, then Energia needs 9 months to process it through liftoff)

Whoops. Even David Moyes would do better than that had he went to Moscow.....  ::)

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 04/14/2014 06:37 AM
RSC Energia boss Vitaly Lopota said in an interview yesterday (http://itar-tass.com/opinions/interviews/2065) that the MLM is "unlikely" to fly in 2015.  (Khrunichev will decide by this month how to fix the module - which may take up to one year, then Energia needs 9 months to process it through liftoff)

Whoops. Even David Moyes would do better than that had he went to Moscow.....  ::)



I can't even get upset over this anymore.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: theonlyspace on 04/14/2014 10:01 AM
They knew this module needed fixing..most likely all new fuel lines  when and the powers to be still  rubbing  their heads  what do do. So sounds like about 2 years yet before it flies maybe this time in 2016.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Space Pete on 04/14/2014 03:39 PM
I have determined a precise mathematical equation for the MLM launch date. I have gone back through years of update threads and it can be correctly applied to any given date in the past, so I know it must be correct.

MLM launch date = [Current date] + 2 years.

::)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: fregate on 04/15/2014 06:29 AM
I have determined a precise mathematical equation for the MLM launch date. I have gone back through years of update threads and it can be correctly applied to any given date in the past, so I know it must be correct.

MLM launch date = [Current date] + 2 years.

::)
This was a mathematical equation for Angara LV launch date :)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Olaf on 04/26/2014 09:06 AM
I have determined a precise mathematical equation for the MLM launch date. I have gone back through years of update threads and it can be correctly applied to any given date in the past, so I know it must be correct.
MLM launch date = [Current date] + 2 years.
::)
According to an information in the NK forum the launch is now in February 2017.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: npuentes on 04/26/2014 04:18 PM
I have determined a precise mathematical equation for the MLM launch date. I have gone back through years of update threads and it can be correctly applied to any given date in the past, so I know it must be correct.
MLM launch date = [Current date] + 2 years.
::)
According to an information in the NK forum the launch is now in February 2017.

If so, I believe that is a full decade (!) beyond the originally scheduled launch date
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Targeteer on 04/26/2014 04:23 PM
I have determined a precise mathematical equation for the MLM launch date. I have gone back through years of update threads and it can be correctly applied to any given date in the past, so I know it must be correct.
MLM launch date = [Current date] + 2 years.
::)
According to an information in the NK forum the launch is now in February 2017.

If so, I believe that is a full decade (!) beyond the originally scheduled launch date

Time to start a pool. Which will fly first, US Crew Vehicle or MLM?  :)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Space Pete on 04/26/2014 04:40 PM
According to an information in the NK forum the launch is now in February 2017.

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I can't believe this - it just gets worse and worse and worse.

Perhaps it would be quicker to just scrap MLM, and produce a new module from scratch?

What an utter debacle this whole business is. Beyond words.....unbelievable.

(And just for the record, this is nothing against Russia at all - I would be complaining just as much if this were a British module.)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 04/27/2014 04:17 AM
Unbelievable.

If the MLM gets delayed past the USCV launch date, would the ISS still be able to accommodate 7 crew?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: 360-180 on 04/27/2014 07:18 AM
Unbelievable.

If the MLM gets delayed past the USCV launch date, would the ISS still be able to accommodate 7 crew?
MLM should provide a seventh crew cabin and a third toilet.

Recall that the first expeditions had only two crew cabins for three people.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 04/27/2014 09:35 PM
If the MLM gets delayed past the USCV launch date, would the ISS still be able to accommodate 7 crew?

MLM should provide a seventh crew cabin and a third toilet.

Which is precisely the reason I was asking...

Quote
Recall that the first expeditions had only two crew cabins for three people.

Interesting.  Did the third person sleep in the Soyuz?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: brahmanknight on 04/27/2014 10:24 PM
There was a temp crew cabin ( TESS? ) in Destiny for a while.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: NovaSilisko on 04/27/2014 10:41 PM
Man... I swear, MLM made the transition from "ISS module" to "Running joke" a while ago now... this is getting absurd!

Do we have any reason yet?



If so, I believe that is a full decade (!) beyond the originally scheduled launch date

Wasn't the module itself built around the same time as Zarya, in the mid 90s? That would mean the thing's been waiting to be launch in some form or another for almost two decades now...
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 04/28/2014 06:05 AM
Man... I swear, MLM made the transition from "ISS module" to "Running joke" a while ago now... this is getting absurd!

Do we have any reason yet?
I asked my sources at the ERA contractors. They have not heard anything official yet. Lot's of rumours though, but I won't bother posting those, as they are rumours.
Official word from the Russians went eerily silent on MLM the minute it was shipped back to Khrunichev at the end of last year. No word from them to the subcontractors ever since.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: manboy on 04/28/2014 06:24 AM
Unbelievable.

If the MLM gets delayed past the USCV launch date, would the ISS still be able to accommodate 7 crew?
Yes but it would mean that a Russian wouldn't get their own crew cabin.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: owais.usmani on 04/28/2014 07:30 AM
So what happens if the NEM-1 gets ready to launch before the MLM? Would they change the order?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Olaf on 04/28/2014 08:03 AM
AFAIK the launch order must be MLM - Node - NEM.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: baldusi on 04/28/2014 04:02 PM
That's the order. But the later Krunishev is, the better contractor Energia looks. Simply because they cover their own delays.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: owais.usmani on 04/30/2014 05:01 AM
Anatoly Zak confirms the Feb 2017 date:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2014 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2014)


Quote
On Jan. 10, 2014, the head of RKK Energia Vitaly Lopota told the official ITAR-TASS news agency that the MLM module had been returned to GKNPTs Khrunichev on Dec. 31, 2013. Lopota promised that the repair schedule for the spacecraft would be issued by the end of the month. However only in April, Lopota was able to estimate that fixing all the damage to the crippled module would take no less than nine months, while its exact processing schedule would not be set until the end of the month. By that time, the launch of the MLM in 2015 was practically ruled out. To save at least some time, plans were made to ship the MLM from GKNPTs Khrunichev directly to the launch site, letting RKK Energia to conduct all final tests of the spacecraft in Baikonur, instead of its testing facility in Korolev, near Moscow.

On April 26, a poster on the web forum of the Novosti Kosmonavtiki magazine reported that the new development schedule had been approved, targeting February 2017 for the launch of the module. The tanks of the spacecraft were found to be unaffected by the contamination, however almost all propellant lines running on the exterior of the module would have to be replaced. Moreover, the module's engines had already exceeded their warranty and had to be replaced as well. The manufacturing of the new propulsion systems would take up to eight months, the poster said.

With its central position in the architecture of the Russian segment, the MLM's troubles also stall the launch of all subsequent Russian components of the station, including the Node Module, UM, (already under construction) and the NEM laboratory and power supply module, whose full-scale development started in 2012.

Given such a prolonged delay, combined with worsening political relations between Russia and its partners in the ISS project, the questions were raised whether the MLM module and the successive components of the Russian segment could be grounded until the assembly of the new all-Russian station in the post-ISS era. Under such a scenario, the troubled spacecraft could play a role of an early hub for the future orbital outpost.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 04/30/2014 07:05 AM
Anatoly Zak confirms the Feb 2017 date:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2014 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2014)
No, mr. Zak does not actually confirm the Feb 2017 date. All he does is refer to the original source of the Feb 2017 date: a poster on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki forum.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: PeterAlt on 11/06/2014 07:43 PM
It's been April since the last update. Are we still two years away, or are we now a year and five months away?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: owais.usmani on 11/09/2014 06:12 PM
It's been April since the last update. Are we still two years away, or are we now a year and five months away?

February 2017 is the current official launch date.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 12/22/2014 02:55 PM
It's been April since the last update. Are we still two years away, or are we now a year and five months away?

February 2017 is the current official launch date.
Confirmed by industry sources as an official NET. However, signals are coming in from contractors that the folks at Khrunichev have (and there is that quote again) "zero confidence in that date". Khrunichev workbees working on a schedule that has MLM launch in december 2017.

Understood from one source that the refit sees a 50 percent rebuild of the MLM module.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: e of pi on 12/22/2014 02:59 PM
Wow. So it's stopped slipping one year per year and is now slipping a year and ahalf per year? Sheesh.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 12/22/2014 03:04 PM
Wow. So it's stopped slipping one year per year and is now slipping a year and ahalf per year? Sheesh.
No, this is not some slip. We're talking a partial rebuild of the module. It's been stripped down to the bare pressure hull, with most of the external systems hardware having been removed. The faulty fueling system has been ripped out and is being completely rebuild. Most of the faulty wiring has been pulled as well. The wiring harness is being rebuild too.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Space Pete on 12/22/2014 07:14 PM
I defies belief how a company with so much experience building space station modules (Khrunichev) could spend so long on the MLM, and still get it so catastrophically wrong.

If Russia really is going to pull out of the ISS in 2020, then they might as well not bother launching MLM to the ISS at all, and instead use it as the base for a new station.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Danderman on 12/23/2014 03:39 AM
I should repeat that the MLM is not really suited as a hab module, it is basically a storage tunnel that will be fitted with a toilet.  In the storage area would be some scientific equipment, in racks, but the TKS design wasn't intended for more than a short stay by a crew, similar to Tiangong-1.

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: owais.usmani on 12/24/2014 05:37 AM
It's been April since the last update. Are we still two years away, or are we now a year and five months away?

February 2017 is the current official launch date.
Confirmed by industry sources as an official NET. However, signals are coming in from contractors that the folks at Khrunichev have (and there is that quote again) "zero confidence in that date". Khrunichev workbees working on a schedule that has MLM launch in december 2017.

Understood from one source that the refit sees a 50 percent rebuild of the MLM module.

Well I was reading Anatoly Zak website and this caught my eye:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/vshos.html (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/vshos.html)

Quote
At the heart of the latest plan is the botched construction of the Multi-purpose Laboratory Module, MLM, the Russia's next big piece of the International Space Station, ISS. After many years of delays, the price tag for the MLM project ballooned to one billion rubles, however the all-but-completed module had to be grounded until at least 2017 due to severe quality control problems during its manufacturing at GKNPTs Khrunichev in Moscow. Repairs of the module were estimated at another billion rubles and GKNPTs Khrunichev was expected to cover this cost from its own reserves. However, the nearly bankrupt company came back with an announcement that it already owed around a billion Euro and would not be able to pay for the future work. Even if repaired and successfully launched, the MLM module, which would have taken more than two decades to build, could arrive at the ISS on the eve of its retirement.

As an alternative, Russian space officials came up with a new scheme to build a whole new station around the MLM, instead of launching it to the ISS. The project with an estimated price tag from four to five billion rubles would cover a five-year delay in the construction of the ISS. The new Russian station would also utilize all future Russian modules, which were expected to follow MLM to the ISS, such as the Node Module, UM; the Science and Power Module, NEM; an Inflatable Habitat, and the OKA-T laboratory.
Title: Re: Will the Russian MLM Ever Actually be Launched?
Post by: Ronpur50 on 01/14/2015 01:05 PM
According to schemes available in L2 documents, the docking system seems to be new. It looks like an APAS, but with four spade-shaped guides instead of three.

I join a snapshot from a L2 document. If it's a bad idea, feel free to delete.

I have been searching L2, trying to find this document that this diagram comes from.  Anyone have a link to it?  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/14/2015 01:49 PM
I defies belief how a company with so much experience building space station modules (Khrunichev) could spend so long on the MLM, and still get it so catastrophically wrong.
Let me put it this way Pete:

It defies belief how a company with so much experience building Proton rockets (Khrunichev) got the installation of the first stage angular velocity sensors catastrophically wrong.

The cause is basically the same: Khrunichev as a company has been in decay for decades. But until just a few years ago this wasn't noticed because most of the faults were caught at the eleventh hour by the older, Soviet-era workers. Now that most of those have retired the problems are manifesting themselves in a very visible manner.

If Russia really is going to pull out of the ISS in 2020, then they might as well not bother launching MLM to the ISS at all, and instead use it as the base for a new station.
IMO that is exactly what will eventually happen. Finally launching MLM less than three years before the end of ISS makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: K-P on 01/14/2015 02:42 PM
If Russia really is going to pull out of the ISS in 2020, then they might as well not bother launching MLM to the ISS at all, and instead use it as the base for a new station.
IMO that is exactly what will eventually happen. Finally launching MLM less than three years before the end of ISS makes no sense at all.

And of what a great station will it be...

- using MLM as a "base" module which is was never meant to be and likely can't be (no propulsion, life support...)
- using MLM in any way with its most likely outdated technology and structure
- believing that somehow the schedule and progress of creating an independent russian station (with more responsibility and issues) is magically faster (and cheaper) than just putting up some modules to an existing station structure on ISS
- seeing the (non-)development and direction of russian space infrastructure in the last decades

MLM will never be launched, unless they must have another deep-sea research module a'la Fobos-Grunt in the Pacific...

When ISS is abandoned we will most likely have a chinese mir-class station gearing up in LEO and US/European "international" L1 Skylab2 or such station in the near-term plans.
Bigelow might have some BA330-stations in the market and in orbit for SpaceX, NASA etc.
Russia most likely has nothing. Unless they somehow manage to create some joint project. Most likely not.

When ISS goes down, so does the russian presence in space. For a few decades at least.

But hey, they always have the powerpoints and promises... Just like with MLM since 2000.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: npuentes on 01/24/2015 11:08 PM
To people with inside information, how much work is going into MLM now? In other words, is it just sitting there at Khrunichev with few or no people working on it, or is it a major effort? If there is little work, then why? What is the budget? If significant, then is it somehow not translating into salaried employees doing real development? If the delay really is to mid-2017 or worse, I would at least take some solace if there was significant progress being made.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Danderman on 01/24/2015 11:15 PM
The latest story is the NEM would be the base module for OPSEK, bringing MLM back to the role of an auxiliary science module.

However, it is likely that Khrunichev designers (brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) have been delaying outfitting some components of the module in anticipation of the potential new function at OPSEK. In other words, all this back and forth about OPSEK is probably having a real impact on MLM schedule.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: brahmanknight on 01/25/2015 02:40 PM
I feel sorry for the European Robotic Arm team.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Bubbinski on 01/25/2015 04:34 PM
Is there an alternate plan for getting the European robotic arm to ISS?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/25/2015 08:45 PM
Is there an alternate plan for getting the European robotic arm to ISS?
Negative. It's not needed anywhere else. And by what my sources are telling me it won't be needed on OPSEK either.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/25/2015 08:56 PM
I feel sorry for the European Robotic Arm team.
You don't need to.
Fokker Dutch Space and it's subcontractors are already completely done with the arm, having produced a static test article, a dynamic model/development model, a WET model, and the flight model. Oh, and a good number of spare parts. All were fully paid for over a decade ago.
Same for the ground support equipment and the training equipment. The latter is being updated to a new platform and new graphics sim, but the Russians are paying most of that since the arm has been handed over to them years ago and they are the ones wanting an updated training platform.
There is only limited support from ESA for ERA, regardless of the fact that it is still considered an active ESA program. Thru-out ESA, Dutch Space and NLR, less than a dozen people are actively involved with ERA, and most of that involvement is part-time at best.
A substantial part of the folks involved with the development and construction of the arm and associated equipment have retired and are mostly not interested anymore.
ERA is basically a Russian 'problem' now, being an almost two decades old architecture.

Oh, one more thing. Under the OPSEK scenario, ERA will not be present on MLM since neither the science airlock, nor the MLM radiator will be required. The latter function would be supplied thru one of the NEM modules. And even if they were needed, there would be no way to retrieve them from their current position on the ISS - MRM module. And the Russians have already indicated that they don't have the funds to construct replacement airlock and/or radiator.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 01/25/2015 08:57 PM
And is it really still needed on the ISS after 2017 ?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: woods170 on 01/25/2015 08:59 PM
And is it really still needed on the ISS after 2017 ?
Under the current scenario, with an ISS splash-date around 2021: Negative.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: AS_501 on 01/25/2015 09:10 PM
If MLM launches, has anyone ever stated reservations about docking (I assume Kurs-style) such a large mass at right angles to the station's main axis?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: okan170 on 01/25/2015 10:39 PM
If MLM launches, has anyone ever stated reservations about docking (I assume Kurs-style) such a large mass at right angles to the station's main axis?

I may be completely off in this, but I recall reading back through some older Shuttle threads, and during STS-130 there was mention that this is part of the reason why Node 3 is installed at Unity's port CBM and not the nadir as shown before that time. 

I'm still not clear on exactly why the move was made, but one of the reasons brought up was concern for clearance of the MLM.  Of course, now the PMM lives down at Unity's nadir, but since its planned to be moved sometime this year, I guess the larger clearance will again be available for MLM should it ever be launched.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 01/25/2015 10:44 PM
I'm still not clear on exactly why the move was made, but one of the reasons brought up was concern for clearance of the MLM.  Of course, now the PMM lives down at Unity's nadir, but since its planned to be moved sometime this year, I guess the larger clearance will again be available for MLM should it ever be launched.

That doesn't make sense, the MLM would go where Pirs (DC) is right now on the SM nadir docking port, no where near Node 1 nadir.  I think the big deal was the clearances of Soyuz docking to MRM-1 which is located at the FBG node 1 docking hatch, right next to Node 1 nadir.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: okan170 on 01/26/2015 01:53 AM
Aha, that sounds much more reasonable!
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 01/26/2015 02:09 AM
Not quite.  The deal was with Soyuz docking clearance with FGB nadir, before MRM-1 was installed.  There was a proposal to keep Node 3 "dormant" where it is now and then move it to Node 1 nadir after MRM-1 arrived, but this was not pursued.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Danderman on 01/27/2015 04:39 AM
If MLM launches, has anyone ever stated reservations about docking (I assume Kurs-style) such a large mass at right angles to the station's main axis?

Note that Shuttle has docked with a PMA in the -R bar, as well.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 02/12/2015 04:37 PM
The third picture is not very clear, but it seems that MLM simulator has been removed from KTOK building in TsPK...

http://www.gctc.ru/main.php?id=2869

Maybe I'm misinterpreting.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2015)
Post by: Prober on 02/19/2015 03:39 PM
I defies belief how a company with so much experience building space station modules (Khrunichev) could spend so long on the MLM, and still get it so catastrophically wrong.
Let me put it this way Pete:

It defies belief how a company with so much experience building Proton rockets (Khrunichev) got the installation of the first stage angular velocity sensors catastrophically wrong.

The cause is basically the same: Khrunichev as a company has been in decay for decades. But until just a few years ago this wasn't noticed because most of the faults were caught at the eleventh hour by the older, Soviet-era workers. Now that most of those have retired the problems are manifesting themselves in a very visible manner.

If Russia really is going to pull out of the ISS in 2020, then they might as well not bother launching MLM to the ISS at all, and instead use it as the base for a new station.
IMO that is exactly what will eventually happen. Finally launching MLM less than three years before the end of ISS makes no sense at all.

and what of the ESA robotic arm designed for use on the ISS MLM; will that be returning to ESA?

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 02/20/2015 09:35 AM
I defies belief how a company with so much experience building space station modules (Khrunichev) could spend so long on the MLM, and still get it so catastrophically wrong.
Let me put it this way Pete:

It defies belief how a company with so much experience building Proton rockets (Khrunichev) got the installation of the first stage angular velocity sensors catastrophically wrong.

The cause is basically the same: Khrunichev as a company has been in decay for decades. But until just a few years ago this wasn't noticed because most of the faults were caught at the eleventh hour by the older, Soviet-era workers. Now that most of those have retired the problems are manifesting themselves in a very visible manner.

If Russia really is going to pull out of the ISS in 2020, then they might as well not bother launching MLM to the ISS at all, and instead use it as the base for a new station.
IMO that is exactly what will eventually happen. Finally launching MLM less than three years before the end of ISS makes no sense at all.

and what of the ESA robotic arm designed for use on the ISS MLM; will that be returning to ESA?



A. ERA was not specifically designed for MLM. It has a long history, starting with the Hermes mini-shuttle before hopping over to MIR-2 and then again hopping over to the Russian segment of the ISS. On the RS, it was supposed to be launched as part of the since-long-cancelled SPP (Science Power Platform or NEP). When that got canned, ERA was moved to MLM.
The basic history of ERA is that of surviving one cancellation after another:
- Hermes, cancelled
- MIR-2, cancelled
- SPP, cancelled
- MLM... well, the final verdict on that is some time in the future...

B. ERA will not be returned to ESA. ESA transferred ownership of ERA to Roscosmos a good number of years ago. Other then some minor ESA support, with regards to technical know-how, operational training and upgrade of the MPTE, the arm is now fully the responsibility of Russia.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 02/25/2015 05:18 PM
Khrunichev will end work on MLM in february 2016.

http://ria.ru/space/20150225/1049576138.html
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 02/25/2015 05:31 PM
Khrunichev will end work on MLM in february 2016.

http://ria.ru/space/20150225/1049576138.html
To add a bit there is an ongoing discussion that the Module and all of its related work is to be written off and likely will go to the space module grave yard as the more they work on it the more they find damaged or irreparable. should here something at next ISS MMT meetings.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: NovaSilisko on 02/25/2015 05:43 PM
Khrunichev will end work on MLM in february 2016.

http://ria.ru/space/20150225/1049576138.html
To add a bit there is an ongoing discussion that the Module and all of its related work is to be written off and likely will go to the space module grave yard as the more they work on it the more they find damaged or irreparable. should here something at next ISS MMT meetings.

Presumably nothing about that in the article link - the translation I have here at least makes it sound like they're going to complete building it in February 2016 and have it ready for integration.

Though it says "the new MLM module", if that means anything.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: schaban on 02/26/2015 02:22 AM
"New" in article means "Not used yet", not "another, brand new MLM"
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Danderman on 02/26/2015 02:58 AM
Khrunichev will end work on MLM in february 2016.

http://ria.ru/space/20150225/1049576138.html

Khrunichev will transfer the repaired MLM to Energia at that time.

Past history tells us that 18 months later should be the launch date.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: PeterAlt on 03/03/2015 12:27 AM
Unbelievable! If they do actually get it launched at the twilight of the ISS life cycle (and considering the other modules still pending launch), my only hope is that they find a way to keep ISS alive beyond the current targeted splash date! Considering that the station is still in good health today at this moment in time, I'm wondering if that is any indication that there could be better chances of keeping it alive long enough to enjoy the benefits of the new Russian modules. Is the station in better condition today compared to the condition it was expected to be in at this point of time?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Tomness on 03/03/2015 12:36 AM
Question: So what happends if they don't launch this Module and USOS fly comercial crew & go to 4 USOS. Where will that Russian member sleep?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Danderman on 03/03/2015 02:51 AM
Question: So what happends if they don't launch this Module and USOS fly comercial crew & go to 4 USOS. Where will that Russian member sleep?

There is always the Soyuz orbital module.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: baldusi on 03/03/2015 11:02 AM
Question: So what happends if they don't launch this Module and USOS fly comercial crew & go to 4 USOS. Where will that Russian member sleep?

There is always the Soyuz orbital module.
Could the MLM actually support an 8 crew ISS increment?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 08/27/2015 11:07 PM
Khrunichev will end work on MLM in february 2016.

http://ria.ru/space/20150225/1049576138.html

*bump*

It's been six months since this last update.  Is there anything new to report?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: pippin on 08/27/2015 11:17 PM
I'd guess the launch date will have moved to the right by another six months.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 08/28/2015 08:01 AM
I'd guess the launch date will have moved to the right by another six months.
Let me put it this way: Roscosmos has learned from the noise from previous updates (err: delay notifications). My contacts report to me that the Russians have been eerily quiet about MLM in the last 14 months. With no hard data to work with it means that the silence about MLM could mean just about anything.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Prober on 08/28/2015 04:05 PM
Khrunichev will end work on MLM in february 2016.

http://ria.ru/space/20150225/1049576138.html

*bump*

It's been six months since this last update.  Is there anything new to report?
Google translation
Khrunichev Center will complete the assembly of the module to the ISS in February 2016

Acting director of the Center Andrew Kalinowski said that retrofitting MLM module "Science" is scheduled for completion in February 2016. Further, the module will be transferred to RSC "Energy" for final finishing.
MOSCOW, February 25 - RIA Novosti. Center Khrunichev complete the assembly of the new module to the ISS MLM in February 2016, hereinafter referred to finished product will give RSC "Energy" for future launch, told reporters Acting director of the Center Andrew Kalinowski.

"Retrofit module is scheduled for completion in February 2016. Further, the module will be transferred to RSC" Energy "to the finish polishing, after which it will be possible to start and to include in the international space station," - said Kalinowski.
MLM module "Science" should ensure the development of the Russian segment of the ISS and conduct full-fledged research. The new module will be placed additional equipment, space for storage.
Furthermore, using MLM can provide life-support functions of the maintenance station to control the roll of the ISS via motors. Also, with the inclusion of "science" of the station to the ISS will be an additional port for the transport ships and research modules."
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: AS_501 on 08/28/2015 04:28 PM
I've been nervous about the MLM launch given recent spate of Proton failures.  Glad to see today's Inmarsat launch went well for the first stage.  I'm not familiar with the upper stage that will launch MLM.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/28/2015 05:13 PM
I've been nervous about the MLM launch given recent spate of Proton failures.  Glad to see today's Inmarsat launch went well for the first stage.  I'm not familiar with the upper stage that will launch MLM.

MLM won't need any Proton upper stages - the 3 stage Proton is enough.  ;)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 08/29/2015 12:03 AM
I've been nervous about the MLM launch given recent spate of Proton failures.  Glad to see today's Inmarsat launch went well for the first stage.  I'm not familiar with the upper stage that will launch MLM.

MLM won't need any Proton upper stages - the 3 stage Proton is enough.  ;)
with its second allocated Proton being reassigned. It is now expected a Phase IV Proton-M without a US.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: JW98 on 10/31/2015 02:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrqNe22T77o

There's an animation of Nauka docking (@6:40) in the latest Roscosmos video, which at least shows it docking to the correct location, unlike previous videos. It does not mention anything about schedule though.

Anyone heard any updates?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Zaum on 01/19/2016 04:01 PM
ESA expects the Russian module "Nauka" for the ISS will launch in late 2017

http://tass.ru/kosmos/2589309
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 01/20/2016 08:37 AM
ESA expects the Russian module "Nauka" for the ISS will launch in late 2017

http://tass.ru/kosmos/2589309
Which means it has been delayed yet again given that the expected launch date was March 2017 just last november.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: rocx on 01/20/2016 09:18 AM
As usual, there's an easy formula to calculate when Nauka will be launched:

Tlaunch = Tnow + 1,5y

It has been delayed at a rate of a year per year for a decade now. It's always one and a half year into the future.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: vapour_nudge on 01/20/2016 09:33 AM
As usual, there's an easy formula to calculate when Nauka will be launched:

Tlaunch = Tnow + 1,5y

It has been delayed at a rate of a year per year for a decade now. It's always one and a half year into the future.

That equation seems to be an international industry standard. It has been used by the US for decades in relation to "Manned Mars missions", now SpaceX is using it for Falcon Heavy. Even Brazil uses it  for its space program
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: robertross on 01/21/2016 12:49 AM
ESA expects the Russian module "Nauka" for the ISS will launch in late 2017

http://tass.ru/kosmos/2589309
Which means it has been delayed yet again given that the expected launch date was March 2017 just last november.

I'll be happy if it flies at all, given Russia's space budget reductions (and announcements) of late.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Danderman on 01/21/2016 01:46 AM
The most accurate way to predict the launch date is 18 months from the date when the module is shipped to RSC Energia for final integration. AFAIK, that event has not yet occurred.

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: anik on 01/21/2016 05:09 AM
The most accurate way to predict the launch date is 18 months from the date when the module is shipped to RSC Energia for final integration

Why do you repeat this wrong assumption again and again? It was told many times here that MLM will not return to RSC Energia, but go to Baikonur. And there will be additional tests on Baikonur for nine months.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 01/21/2016 06:55 AM
The most accurate way to predict the launch date is 18 months from the date when the module is shipped to RSC Energia for final integration

Why do you repeat this wrong assumption again and again? It was told many times here that MLM will not return to RSC Energia, but go to Baikonur. And there will be additional tests on Baikonur for nine months.
Funny. That is not what Roscosmos is telling to NASA and ESA.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: anik on 01/21/2016 07:45 AM
Again. I am speaking of 18 months. It is wrong assumption based on preparation time of past Russian modules. It is not this case for MLM, because all autonomous tests of its systems have been performed earlier at RSC Energia. Excluding engine systems and pipes.

Maybe previous plan for MLM to send it from Khrunichev to Baikonur and to perform of complex tests of its systems there has been changed - I do not know. But if MLM goes to RSC Energia again then it will not be 18 months before launch, it will be closer to launch. There is no need to repeat autonomous tests of MLM systems again.

It is very funny to read people who turns their wrong assumptions to truth.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: anik on 01/26/2016 01:53 PM
For those in NASA and ESA who heard "something" from Roskosmos.

http://tass.ru/kosmos/2616022

Quote
Ранее в пресс-центре корпорации сообщили, что модуль останется на предприятии-изготовителе - в Центре имени Хруничева - до начала 2017 года, после чего его отправят на космодром Байконур для комплексных испытаний.

I.e. in the beginning of 2017 MLM-U will be sent from Khrunichev directly to Baikonur, not to RSC Energia, for complex tests of systems and preparation to a launch.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Danderman on 01/26/2016 03:05 PM
The most accurate way to predict the launch date is 18 months from the date when the module is shipped to RSC Energia for final integration

Why do you repeat this wrong assumption again and again? It was told many times here that MLM will not return to RSC Energia, but go to Baikonur. And there will be additional tests on Baikonur for nine months.

If the plan is to change the normal processing approach, sure, that timeline would change.

I wouldn't be too confident of the outcome, though.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 01/27/2016 10:58 AM
The most accurate way to predict the launch date is 18 months from the date when the module is shipped to RSC Energia for final integration

Why do you repeat this wrong assumption again and again? It was told many times here that MLM will not return to RSC Energia, but go to Baikonur. And there will be additional tests on Baikonur for nine months.

If the plan is to change the normal processing approach, sure, that timeline would change.

I wouldn't be too confident of the outcome, though.
Given how many delays Nauka has already seen, I wouldn't either. I've seen a few reports on the condition of Nauka as reported shortly before it was shipped from Energia back to the Khrunichev. Let me put it this way: the trouble with Nauka was much (as in MUCH) more than just the reported 'contamination' of the propulsion system. There was a whole host of problems with other aspects such as electrical wiring, other plumbing, seals, workmanship, etc. etc. Nauka was inspected at Energia's by a few cosmonauts. Those reported, rather euphemistically, that they were "less than impressed". For those who know how to parse such statements it is quite telling.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Danderman on 01/27/2016 10:53 PM
Unfortunately, a program that is baselining repair work at the Cosmodrome is going to be sporty. Given that RSC Energia saved everyone's bacon by spotting problems at KISS in Korolyev, you would think that the plan would be to send the module back to KISS before it goes to Baikonur.  KISS has the full set of diagnostic tools to ensure reliability of spacecraft prior to launch.

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/27/2016 11:13 PM
Unfortunately, a program that is baselining repair work at the Cosmodrome is going to be sporty. Given that RSC Energia saved everyone's bacon by spotting problems at KISS in Korolyev, you would think that the plan would be to send the module back to KISS before it goes to Baikonur.  KISS has the full set of diagnostic tools to ensure reliability of spacecraft prior to launch.


there are currently no federal funds allocated to do what they should do. with budget tightening its increasingly the companies that maust help pay for the mistakes and cost overruns.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Stan Black on 02/06/2016 03:06 PM
More money being spent on MLM, contract from Federal Space Agency to Energia?
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/contract/contractCard/payment-info-and-target-of-order.html?reestrNumber=1770236167416000008
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: jacqmans on 02/18/2016 09:47 AM
Last week while I was at ESTEC I spotted a model of the MLM module with the "Dutch" ESA ERA robot arm.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: jacqmans on 06/20/2016 12:02 PM
RSC "Energia": the next stage WORKS modulo "SCIENCE" FOR ISS

 20.06.2016 13:08

 RSC specialists "Energy" has successfully completed the construction and testing of additional equipment located inside the multi-purpose Laboratory Module (MLM) "Science" to the International Space Station (ISS).

 RSC President of the "Energy" Vladimir Sun: "Work on the production of additional equipment for MLM completed on time.  We are completing the development of documentation and proceed to the installation of large equipment on the outside of the module.  The completion of the next phase of work will advance to the final assembly and testing of MLM to be sent later in the technical complex. "

 Launch MLM "Science" with improved performance is scheduled for December 2017.

 MLM - multifunctional laboratory module "Science" should ensure the development of the Russian segment of the ISS and conduct scientific research.  MLM "Science" on a number of characteristics of superior European Columbus and Japanese Kibo.  The design provides a unified jobs - devices for the installation and connection of scientific equipment inside and outside the station, so that the module can be adapted to any task.  The high degree of automation MLM will reduce the number of expensive spacewalks - many transactions behind can be performed without leaving the station.  In addition to solving scientific problems module "Science" will provide the ISS with oxygen to regenerate the water from urine and control the orientation of the station on the channel bank.

http://www.roscosmos.ru/22322/
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 06/20/2016 08:40 PM
RSC "Energia": the next stage WORKS modulo "SCIENCE" FOR ISS

 20.06.2016 13:08

 RSC specialists "Energy" has successfully completed the construction and testing of additional equipment located inside the multi-purpose Laboratory Module (MLM) "Science" to the International Space Station (ISS).

 RSC President of the "Energy" Vladimir Sun: "Work on the production of additional equipment for MLM completed on time.  We are completing the development of documentation and proceed to the installation of large equipment on the outside of the module.  The completion of the next phase of work will advance to the final assembly and testing of MLM to be sent later in the technical complex. "

 Launch MLM "Science" with improved performance is scheduled for December 2017.

 MLM - multifunctional laboratory module "Science" should ensure the development of the Russian segment of the ISS and conduct scientific research.  MLM "Science" on a number of characteristics of superior European Columbus and Japanese Kibo.  The design provides a unified jobs - devices for the installation and connection of scientific equipment inside and outside the station, so that the module can be adapted to any task.  The high degree of automation MLM will reduce the number of expensive spacewalks - many transactions behind can be performed without leaving the station.  In addition to solving scientific problems module "Science" will provide the ISS with oxygen to regenerate the water from urine and control the orientation of the station on the channel bank.

http://www.roscosmos.ru/22322/
Followup reply with MLM designation change in industry and agency documentation to MLM-U:

Primary Source Permalink: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2016
Quote
2016: New delay for MLM module

In 2016, the launch of the MLM module slipped again to December 2017, or around six months behind the previously quoted timeline. According to a press-release issued by RKK Energia on June 20, the company completed the manufacturing and testing of unidentified equipment for the interior of the module.

At the same time, the head of RKK Energia was quoted as saying that the development of documentation and the installation of large pieces of hardware on the exterior of the spacecraft had entered the final stage.

Russian officials also began identifying the module as MLM-U, where "U" stood for "usovershenstvovanny" or "upgraded." These "upgrades" had never been detailed, hinting that the new designation was a political gimmick to explain endless delays and the ballooning budget of the project. However, the new name could also denote yet-to-be identified upgrades to adapt the module for the operation as a part of the future Russian space station. As late as 2015, Roskosmos continued evaluating various schemes to separate the MLM along with the UM and NEM-1 modules from the ISS at the end of its operation to form the new outpost in the low Earth orbit.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Stan Black on 07/09/2016 02:04 PM
A previous MLM contract, for period 2011 to 2013:-
3 725 000 000 Российский рубль
№ 351-5696/11 от 22.12.2011
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/contract/contractCard/common-info.html?reestrNumber=0173100007011000408

The MLM-U contract:-
3 996 809 400 Российский рубль
№ 351-8517/15/361 от 30.12.2015
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/contract/contractCard/common-info.html?reestrNumber=1770236167416000008

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 08/11/2016 07:30 PM
http://izvestia.ru/news/626548

Sergei Krikalyov, now head of Roskosmos' manned spaceflight department, has told the Izvestiya newspaper that Roskosmos has sent a proposal to the ISS partners to reduce the Russian ISS crew from three to two in order to increase the efficiency of on-board research and cut costs. He linked the proposal to the smaller number of Russian cargo vehicles now flying to ISS, but in an earlier Izvestiya interview also said it made little sense to have a crew of three on the station as long as the MLM module is still on the ground. He said the amount of scientific equipment on board the Russian segment at this point does not justify the presence of a three-man crew. The earlier interview (only in Russian) is here:

http://izvestia.ru/news/609531

The proposal has also been sent for review to the Russian Mission Control Centre and the Institute of Medical and Biological Problems, Krikalyov says.

The Izvestiya article says both the MLM and the Node Module launch are now set for launch in 2018, with the Science Energy Module (NEM) following in 2019. It's not clear if this was actually stated by Krikalyov. For the MLM this would be another delay from the last announced launch date (Dec 2017).

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: rockets4life97 on 08/14/2016 11:06 PM
Roskosmos has sent a proposal to the ISS partners to reduce the Russian ISS crew from three to two in order to increase the efficiency of on-board research and cut costs.

If the Russians reduced their crew to 2, do you think the U.S. would be interested in increasing their crew by another member to increase the U.S. science output from the ISS?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Graham on 08/14/2016 11:17 PM
Roskosmos has sent a proposal to the ISS partners to reduce the Russian ISS crew from three to two in order to increase the efficiency of on-board research and cut costs.

If the Russians reduced their crew to 2, do you think the U.S. would be interested in increasing their crew by another member to increase the U.S. science output from the ISS?

They are already interested in increasing by one, the station is designed to be crewed by 7. However this can't happen until Commercial Crew is up and running, however if the Russians decrease their crew compliment before that occurs, it would open another seat aboard Soyuz that could be taken by an American astronaut to increase USOS crew to 4 before Commercial Crew.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: MKremer on 08/15/2016 01:43 AM
If the Russians reduced their crew to 2, do you think the U.S. would be interested in increasing their crew by another member to increase the U.S. science output from the ISS?

They are already interested in increasing by one, the station is designed to be crewed by 7. However this can't happen until Commercial Crew is up and running, however if the Russians decrease their crew compliment before that occurs, it would open another seat aboard Soyuz that could be taken by an American astronaut to increase USOS crew to 4 before Commercial Crew.

IMO that probably won't happen - a) There will be demand for more money (re-negotiation of the current NASA contract) since future flights could result in more US astronauts launched than the current contract agreement; b) Because of the implications of (a), lots of folks in the US Congress likely would object to the increased money Russia wants, and the increase in costs NASA would require to meet it (meaning slashing funding from elsewhere in NASA's budget to meet the new manned spaceflight budget costs). Not to mention objections from other NASA divisions that would suffer anew from funding shortfalls they hadn't expected, much less planned for.
 
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Sam Ho on 08/15/2016 01:53 AM
If the Russians reduced their crew to 2, do you think the U.S. would be interested in increasing their crew by another member to increase the U.S. science output from the ISS?

They are already interested in increasing by one, the station is designed to be crewed by 7. However this can't happen until Commercial Crew is up and running, however if the Russians decrease their crew compliment before that occurs, it would open another seat aboard Soyuz that could be taken by an American astronaut to increase USOS crew to 4 before Commercial Crew.

IMO that probably won't happen - a) There will be demand for more money (re-negotiation of the current NASA contract) since future flights could result in more US astronauts launched than the current contract agreement; b) Because of the implications of (a), lots of folks in the US Congress likely would object to the increased money Russia wants, and the increase in costs NASA would require to meet it (meaning slashing funding from elsewhere in NASA's budget to meet the new manned spaceflight budget costs). Not to mention objections from other NASA divisions that would suffer anew from funding shortfalls they hadn't expected, much less planned for.
The Izvestia article is more about after Commercial Crew begins.  Currently, there are 4 Soyuz per year, split 50-50 between RS (not-paying) and USOS (paying) crew.  Roskosmos is fine with this, as they are paid well for transporting the USOS crew.  Once Commercial Crew begins, there will be only 2 Soyuz per year.  If the RS crew is still 3, there's no room for paying passengers.  If the RS crew is reduced to 2, that opens a seat for a paying passenger, possibly a tourist.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 08/15/2016 02:59 AM
If the Russians reduced their crew to 2, do you think the U.S. would be interested in increasing their crew by another member to increase the U.S. science output from the ISS?

They are already interested in increasing by one, the station is designed to be crewed by 7. However this can't happen until Commercial Crew is up and running, however if the Russians decrease their crew compliment before that occurs, it would open another seat aboard Soyuz that could be taken by an American astronaut to increase USOS crew to 4 before Commercial Crew.

IMO that probably won't happen - a) There will be demand for more money (re-negotiation of the current NASA contract) since future flights could result in more US astronauts launched than the current contract agreement; b) Because of the implications of (a), lots of folks in the US Congress likely would object to the increased money Russia wants, and the increase in costs NASA would require to meet it (meaning slashing funding from elsewhere in NASA's budget to meet the new manned spaceflight budget costs). Not to mention objections from other NASA divisions that would suffer anew from funding shortfalls they hadn't expected, much less planned for.
The Izvestia article is more about after Commercial Crew begins.  Currently, there are 4 Soyuz per year, split 50-50 between RS (not-paying) and USOS (paying) crew.  Roskosmos is fine with this, as they are paid well for transporting the USOS crew.  Once Commercial Crew begins, there will be only 2 Soyuz per year.  If the RS crew is still 3, there's no room for paying passengers.  If the RS crew is reduced to 2, that opens a seat for a paying passenger, possibly a tourist.
they would not allow a tourist to stay on orbit for six months so it would have to fly up a then down on the old one.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: sdsds on 08/15/2016 05:14 AM
they would not allow a tourist to stay on orbit for six months so it would have to fly up a then down on the old one.

So without a shuttle orbiter docked could ISS support a crew of 10 for the days of the handover, thus once again allowing short term spaceflight participants to visit the station?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Targeteer on 08/15/2016 11:14 AM
http://izvestia.ru/news/626548

Sergei Krikalyov, now head of Roskosmos' manned spaceflight department, has told the Izvestiya newspaper that Roskosmos has sent a proposal to the ISS partners to reduce the Russian ISS crew from three to two in order to increase the efficiency of on-board research and cut costs. He linked the proposal to the smaller number of Russian cargo vehicles now flying to ISS, but in an earlier Izvestiya interview also said it made little sense to have a crew of three on the station as long as the MLM module is still on the ground. He said the amount of scientific equipment on board the Russian segment at this point does not justify the presence of a three-man crew. The earlier interview (only in Russian) is here:

http://izvestia.ru/news/609531


This is the first admission I've seen by anyone that the current 3/3 crew split is an absolute joke.  Listen to the total lack of interaction between the Cosmonauts and the Moscow and it is obvious that they are doing little to nothing on a daily basis, especially from a science point of view.  The arrangement that lead to this manning split by NASA has been a disaster and was a monumental mistake.  I would love to hear someone from NASA or more likely, formerly of NASA, state this publicly.  I fully realize that will likely never happen owing to the political sensitivities involved. Off the soap box now, grenade thrown  :)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 08/15/2016 11:29 AM
Right folks, back on track....and a new thread will be required when we have a firm launch date too.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Sam Ho on 08/15/2016 01:38 PM
To get back to MLM, the Izvestia article says that there's not enough work for 3 RS crew until MLM is launched.  Another point is that without MLM, there are only 2 crew bunks in the RS.  The third RS cosmonaut has been sleeping in Node 2.  If USOS goes up to 4 crew with Commercial Crew, they might want that fourth bunk.  Crew quarters are not a hard limit on crew size: the crew can and does sleep wherever convenient during direct handovers, but I could imagine it's nice to have for a long-duration mission.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 08/16/2016 01:15 AM
This was mentioned at the tail end of the spacewalk briefing today (@ 54:50):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf52LSg4AsA

In short, what the public has heard is the same as what NASA has heard.  Russia has made a proposal and circulated it to the partners, but it's still in the evaluation stage and no decisions have been made.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 09/13/2016 07:04 PM
http://tass.com/science/899639

Quote
MOSCOW, September 13. /TASS/. Russian crew at the International Space Station wil be curtailed to two cosmonauts at a time from the current three cosmonauts as of next spring and will remain curtailed until the commissioning of a Multirole Laboratory Module (MLM), which is scheduled for the end of 2017, a well-informed source in the Russian aerospace industry told TASS.

"In case the endorsed schedule is observed and the MLM gets into operation in December 2017, the curtailment will affect only one Russian crew," the source said. "Otherwise the practice of curtailment will continue until the commissioning of the module." The Russian state space corporation Roscosmos has to downsize the ISS mission crew as the number of Progress cargo ships launched to the ISS annually will be reduced to three from four at present in the wake of NASA's refusal to continue using the Progresses and to change over to new U.S. cargo carriers instead, the source said, adding that three Progresses a year is not enough to support three cosmonauts working at the ISS permanently. In this connection, the Russian missile corporation Energiya is developing a new cargo ship that will have a greater payload.
As part of the crew curtailment plan, Roscomos may swap the crews due to go into space in March and in May.

In March 2017, the Soyuz MS-04 ship is due to take to the ISS the cosmonaus Alexander Misurkin and Nikolai Tikhonov and NASA astronaut Mark Thomas Vande Hei, while the cosmonaut Fyodor Yurchikhin, Nasa astronaut Jack David and the European Space Agency astronaut Paolo Nespoli of Italy are supposed to head for the ISS in May.

The source told TASS Thomas Vander Hei's professional upgrading to Level 1 from 2 Flight Engineer. Should the third place on the Soyuz become vacant, the procedure for replacement of the crews may change and a young Russian cosmonaut may go into space with a visiting crew for a period of several days.
The partners will be familiarized with the final decision right before next launch of a manned space vehicle scheduled for next week, the source said.

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: A_M_Swallow on 09/14/2016 09:34 AM
http://tass.com/science/899639

Quote
MOSCOW, September 13. /TASS/. Russian crew at the International Space Station wil be curtailed to two cosmonauts at a time from the current three cosmonauts as of next spring and will remain curtailed until the commissioning of a Multirole Laboratory Module (MLM), which is scheduled for the end of 2017, a well-informed source in the Russian aerospace industry told TASS.

"In case the endorsed schedule is observed and the MLM gets into operation in December 2017, the curtailment will affect only one Russian crew," the source said. "Otherwise the practice of curtailment will continue until the commissioning of the module." The Russian state space corporation Roscosmos has to downsize the ISS mission crew as the number of Progress cargo ships launched to the ISS annually will be reduced to three from four at present in the wake of NASA's refusal to continue using the Progresses and to change over to new U.S. cargo carriers instead, the source said, adding that three Progresses a year is not enough to support three cosmonauts working at the ISS permanently. In this connection, the Russian missile corporation Energiya is developing a new cargo ship that will have a greater payload.
As part of the crew curtailment plan, Roscomos may swap the crews due to go into space in March and in May.

In March 2017, the Soyuz MS-04 ship is due to take to the ISS the cosmonaus Alexander Misurkin and Nikolai Tikhonov and NASA astronaut Mark Thomas Vande Hei, while the cosmonaut Fyodor Yurchikhin, Nasa astronaut Jack David and the European Space Agency astronaut Paolo Nespoli of Italy are supposed to head for the ISS in May.

The source told TASS Thomas Vander Hei's professional upgrading to Level 1 from 2 Flight Engineer. Should the third place on the Soyuz become vacant, the procedure for replacement of the crews may change and a young Russian cosmonaut may go into space with a visiting crew for a period of several days.
The partners will be familiarized with the final decision right before next launch of a manned space vehicle scheduled for next week, the source said.



The pad explosion on 1 September 2016 when SpaceX hot fired the Falcon 9 carrying the Amos-6 communications satellite may persuade NASA that it needs to buy 2-3 more Progresses. This depends on how long it will take to find and fix the Falcon 9 faults.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 09/14/2016 12:30 PM
http://tass.com/science/899639 (http://tass.com/science/899639)

Quote
MOSCOW, September 13. /TASS/. Russian crew at the International Space Station wil be curtailed to two cosmonauts at a time from the current three cosmonauts as of next spring and will remain curtailed until the commissioning of a Multirole Laboratory Module (MLM), which is scheduled for the end of 2017, a well-informed source in the Russian aerospace industry told TASS.

"In case the endorsed schedule is observed and the MLM gets into operation in December 2017, the curtailment will affect only one Russian crew," the source said. "Otherwise the practice of curtailment will continue until the commissioning of the module." The Russian state space corporation Roscosmos has to downsize the ISS mission crew as the number of Progress cargo ships launched to the ISS annually will be reduced to three from four at present in the wake of NASA's refusal to continue using the Progresses and to change over to new U.S. cargo carriers instead, the source said, adding that three Progresses a year is not enough to support three cosmonauts working at the ISS permanently. In this connection, the Russian missile corporation Energiya is developing a new cargo ship that will have a greater payload.
As part of the crew curtailment plan, Roscomos may swap the crews due to go into space in March and in May.

In March 2017, the Soyuz MS-04 ship is due to take to the ISS the cosmonaus Alexander Misurkin and Nikolai Tikhonov and NASA astronaut Mark Thomas Vande Hei, while the cosmonaut Fyodor Yurchikhin, Nasa astronaut Jack David and the European Space Agency astronaut Paolo Nespoli of Italy are supposed to head for the ISS in May.

The source told TASS Thomas Vander Hei's professional upgrading to Level 1 from 2 Flight Engineer. Should the third place on the Soyuz become vacant, the procedure for replacement of the crews may change and a young Russian cosmonaut may go into space with a visiting crew for a period of several days.
The partners will be familiarized with the final decision right before next launch of a manned space vehicle scheduled for next week, the source said.


Emphasis mine.
So, basically, the Russians blame the downsizing of their crew complement on NASA?
Let the blame-games begin...  ::)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: the_other_Doug on 09/14/2016 04:04 PM
The pad explosion on 1 September 2016 when SpaceX hot fired the Falcon 9 carrying the Amos-6 communications satellite may persuade NASA that it needs to buy 2-3 more Progresses. This depends on how long it will take to find and fix the Falcon 9 faults.

NASA has bought, and continues to buy, seats on Soyuz crew ferry vehicles, but I was unaware that NASA (or anyone else) was purchasing entire Progress flights.  I can see some USOS cargo being added to a given Progress flight, and possibly paid for, but that would be an exception, not a rule, I would think...
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: brickmack on 09/14/2016 05:25 PM
The pad explosion on 1 September 2016 when SpaceX hot fired the Falcon 9 carrying the Amos-6 communications satellite may persuade NASA that it needs to buy 2-3 more Progresses. This depends on how long it will take to find and fix the Falcon 9 faults.

HTV is also down for the moment, and Cygnus-Antares RTF date remains uncertain, which doesn't help things.

I wish ATV was around still, or that CRS2 would hurry up and start
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 09/15/2016 07:24 PM
http://tass.com/science/899639 (http://tass.com/science/899639)

Quote
<snip>
The Russian state space corporation Roscosmos has to downsize the ISS mission crew as the number of Progress cargo ships launched to the ISS annually will be reduced to three from four at present in the wake of NASA's refusal to continue using the Progresses and to change over to new U.S. cargo carriers instead
<snip>


Emphasis mine.
So, basically, the Russians blame the downsizing of their crew complement on NASA?
Let the blame-games begin...  ::)

The pad explosion on 1 September 2016 when SpaceX hot fired the Falcon 9 carrying the Amos-6 communications satellite may persuade NASA that it needs to buy 2-3 more Progresses. This depends on how long it will take to find and fix the Falcon 9 faults.

HTV is also down for the moment, and Cygnus-Antares RTF date remains uncertain, which doesn't help things.

I wish ATV was around still, or that CRS2 would hurry up and start

I agree with woods.
And, I sniff a red herring deployed by the "source" apparently speaking/leaking for Roscosmos.

Other than propellant for orbit altitude adjustments (via the Progress or transfer to Zvezda), what other supplies critical to the operation of the USOS are regularly supplied by Progress?

To me, this looks like a situation in which Progress re-supply is critical to the Russian segment (Mir-2), but is generally not critical to the USOS (Freedom).
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Glom on 09/15/2016 09:39 PM
What's the maintenance workload like? The Russian stuff is practically old enough to vote now. Will 2 still be sufficient with this in mind?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/16/2016 03:41 AM
What's the maintenance workload like? The Russian stuff is practically old enough to vote now. Will 2 still be sufficient with this in mind?
Well Zvezda dates back to the Mir-1 Days as it was the backup core module and replanned to fly as the CM on Mir-2 which in turn was replanned into SM for ISS-RS.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: wbianco on 09/19/2016 05:42 PM
The pad explosion on 1 September 2016 when SpaceX hot fired the Falcon 9 carrying the Amos-6 communications satellite may persuade NASA that it needs to buy 2-3 more Progresses. This depends on how long it will take to find and fix the Falcon 9 faults.

NASA has bought, and continues to buy, seats on Soyuz crew ferry vehicles, but I was unaware that NASA (or anyone else) was purchasing entire Progress flights.  I can see some USOS cargo being added to a given Progress flight, and possibly paid for, but that would be an exception, not a rule, I would think...

That's a negative - I have a decade's work of Progress manifests in a spreadsheet.  During the Columbia stand-down the % of Progress cargo for the USOS was generally in the 30% range.  Once the shuttle utilization flights resumed and ATV, HTV, Dragon, Cygnus began deliveries, the USOS % went down into the single-digit range, about 100kg or less of of spares and some food. 
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Sam Ho on 09/19/2016 09:58 PM
Article from Jeff Foust about the planned RS crew reduction.  Features a quote from Gerstenmaier that “I don’t think it will be a big impact to us overall.”

http://spacenews.com/russian-crew-reduction-to-have-limited-effect-on-space-station-operations/
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: brickmack on 09/20/2016 04:57 PM
That's a negative - I have a decade's work of Progress manifests in a spreadsheet.  During the Columbia stand-down the % of Progress cargo for the USOS was generally in the 30% range.  Once the shuttle utilization flights resumed and ATV, HTV, Dragon, Cygnus began deliveries, the USOS % went down into the single-digit range, about 100kg or less of of spares and some food.

Got a link?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: The man in the can on 09/26/2016 10:12 PM
News from Anatoly Zak:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2016 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2016)

Quote
However, as of middle of September, all the work on the assembly of the MLM module had stalled again. According to industry sources, most of replacement components for the MLM's faulty propulsion system had already been manufactured, except for the pipelines, which would have to be bent based on their particular situation on the module. Still, military quality control officers, who now certify all space industry manufacturing operations, refused to give the green light for the final assembly of the propulsion system for the MLM.

The flight version of the spacecraft currently remains at Khrunichev factory in the District of Fili in Moscow with only a partially assembled propulsion system. The official schedule still calls for the launch of the spacecraft at the end of 2017, however, in order to meet this deadline, all key systems have to be assembled and the module needs to leave Fili for Baikonur Cosmodrome in April 2017. A processing team in Baikonur will need next eight months to test and fuel the 19-ton spacecraft and prepare it for integration with its Proton rocket.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: robertross on 09/27/2016 12:23 AM
News from Anatoly Zak:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2016 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2016)

Quote
However, as of middle of September, all the work on the assembly of the MLM module had stalled again. According to industry sources, most of replacement components for the MLM's faulty propulsion system had already been manufactured, except for the pipelines, which would have to be bent based on their particular situation on the module. Still, military quality control officers, who now certify all space industry manufacturing operations, refused to give the green light for the final assembly of the propulsion system for the MLM.

The flight version of the spacecraft currently remains at Khrunichev factory in the District of Fili in Moscow with only a partially assembled propulsion system. The official schedule still calls for the launch of the spacecraft at the end of 2017, however, in order to meet this deadline, all key systems have to be assembled and the module needs to leave Fili for Baikonur Cosmodrome in April 2017. A processing team in Baikonur will need next eight months to test and fuel the 19-ton spacecraft and prepare it for integration with its Proton rocket.

I wonder if the military QC officers haven't been paid in a while?

This whole thing with MLM, Progress, and reduced crew size all point to budget cutbacks (and the fact that their reported government 'contingency funds' are almost zero).
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 11/08/2016 09:26 PM
http://www.interfax.ru/world/535782

Interfax quotes a source at Baikonur as saying that the launch of MLM has been pushed back several more months and is now planned for mid-2018 or the second half of 2018. This also means the Russian segment will be operated by a two-man rather than a three-man crew longer than earlier planned. The last Soyuz to carry just a single Russian crew member is now expected to be Soyuz MS-08, scheduled for launch in March 2018. 
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 11/09/2016 07:58 AM
http://www.interfax.ru/world/535782

Interfax quotes a source at Baikonur as saying that the launch of MLM has been pushed back several more months and is now planned for mid-2018 or the second half of 2018. This also means the Russian segment will be operated by a two-man rather than a three-man crew longer than earlier planned. The last Soyuz to carry just a single Russian crew member is now expected to be Soyuz MS-08, scheduled for launch in March 2018. 
Why am I not surprised?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: rocx on 11/11/2016 10:58 AM
the second half of 2018

That is two years from now. So we're still perfectly on schedule to launch Nauka in two years, as we have always been.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/11/2016 11:06 PM
the second half of 2018

That is two years from now. So we're still perfectly on schedule to launch Nauka in two years, as we have always been.
Russian Ministry of Defence is blocking signing off of fuel and oxidizer lines for a long time now workers cannot proceed on this module however MoD is allowing work on other modules.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 11/12/2016 02:38 PM
the second half of 2018

That is two years from now. So we're still perfectly on schedule to launch Nauka in two years, as we have always been.
Russian Ministry of Defence is blocking signing off of fuel and oxidizer lines for a long time now workers cannot proceed on this module however MoD is allowing work on other modules.
There is a reason for that. Allowing the work on Nauka to be finished and have it launched will force Russia to "stay on the ISS" for quite a few years more. There are forces acting inside both the Russian MoD and the Russian government to get back to an independent Russian space station. Nixing MLM alltogether from the ISS RS, due to continued delays, is just the first step. Also: the reduction in Russian crew size of ISS didn't drop out of thin air "for budgetary reasons". That's just the cover story.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Archibald on 11/12/2016 06:50 PM
the second half of 2018

That is two years from now. So we're still perfectly on schedule to launch Nauka in two years, as we have always been.

Nauka: Russia own manned Mars mission - always some years in the future :p
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 11/20/2016 07:08 PM
http://tass.ru/opinions/interviews/3788209

Roskosmos manned spaceflight director Sergei Krikalyov says in a TASS interview that the MLM launch is still scheduled for December 2017, with the return to a three-man Russian crew expected in March 2018. They're looking at several options to fill the vacant Soyuz seats in the coming year : tourist flights, another long-duration mission by an astronaut or just extra cargo.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Lars-J on 11/22/2016 05:04 PM
the second half of 2018

That is two years from now. So we're still perfectly on schedule to launch Nauka in two years, as we have always been.
Russian Ministry of Defence is blocking signing off of fuel and oxidizer lines for a long time now workers cannot proceed on this module however MoD is allowing work on other modules.
There is a reason for that. Allowing the work on Nauka to be finished and have it launched will force Russia to "stay on the ISS" for quite a few years more. There are forces acting inside both the Russian MoD and the Russian government to get back to an independent Russian space station. Nixing MLM alltogether from the ISS RS, due to continued delays, is just the first step. Also: the reduction in Russian crew size of ISS didn't drop out of thin air "for budgetary reasons". That's just the cover story.

But where will the funds come from for an independent Russian space station? It's not going to be cheaper than their current commitment to ISS, I would think.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 11/22/2016 05:23 PM
http://tass.ru/opinions/interviews/3788209 (http://tass.ru/opinions/interviews/3788209)

Roskosmos manned spaceflight director Sergei Krikalyov says in a TASS interview that the MLM launch is still scheduled for December 2017, with the return to a three-man Russian crew expected in March 2018. They're looking at several options to fill the vacant Soyuz seats in the coming year : tourist flights, another long-duration mission by an astronaut or just extra cargo.
Scheduled for december 2017 is still the official word. But what I hear from ERA sources is that the earlier Interfax report about a three-to-five month delay into 2018 is closer to the truth.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/05/2017 01:34 AM
BUMP:
LINK: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2017
Quote
2017: Work restarts on the MLM module

In a rare good news for the Russian segment of the ISS, the work on the MLM module had finally restarted by the end of 2016. This time, the MLM team had a goal of launching the spacecraft in December 2017, even though, it could require to cut the time originally allocated for the spacecraft testing.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/19/2017 04:13 PM
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2017
Quote
As of January 2017, the launch of the MLM module was officially scheduled for December 6 of the same year, followed by the docking at the ISS on Dec. 15, 2017. To free the nadir (Earth-facing) docking port on the Zvezda Service Module, SM, for the new arrival, the Progress MS-06 cargo ship will undock from the Russian segment along with the Pirs Docking Compartment, SO1, which has occupied that location since 2001. The Pirs module will then be deorbited and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere over the Pacific Ocean along with Progress MS-06.

Following the integration of the MLM module, on Jan. 23, 2018, the Soyuz MS-06 transport spacecraft will undock from the zenith (sky-facing) port of the MIM2 Poisk module, make a quick fly around of the ISS and re-dock at the nadir port of the MLM, becoming the first spacecraft parking at the new module.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 02/01/2017 01:00 PM
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss_fgb2.html#2017
Quote
As of January 2017, the launch of the MLM module was officially scheduled for December 6 of the same year, followed by the docking at the ISS on Dec. 15, 2017. To free the nadir (Earth-facing) docking port on the Zvezda Service Module, SM, for the new arrival, the Progress MS-06 cargo ship will undock from the Russian segment along with the Pirs Docking Compartment, SO1, which has occupied that location since 2001. The Pirs module will then be deorbited and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere over the Pacific Ocean along with Progress MS-06.

Following the integration of the MLM module, on Jan. 23, 2018, the Soyuz MS-06 transport spacecraft will undock from the zenith (sky-facing) port of the MIM2 Poisk module, make a quick fly around of the ISS and re-dock at the nadir port of the MLM, becoming the first spacecraft parking at the new module.

http://tass.ru/kosmos/3984271

TASS quotes Roscosmos officials as saying that the MLM is supposed to dock with the ISS just two days after launch. Only if all its systems check out fine after reaching orbit, the go-ahead will be given to undock Pirs from the Zvezda nadir port. The Progress MS-06 cargo ship that will be used to detach Pirs from the ISS and deorbit it is scheduled for launch on June 14.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 02/03/2017 02:38 PM
New contract to RKK Energiya to fulfill work on MLM-U.

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/contract/contractCard/document-info.html?reestrNumber=1770236167416000008

If you look at the documents, you can see that the main part of the money will be spent in 2018... Is the december 2017 launch date really serious ?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 02/03/2017 03:39 PM
New contract to RKK Energiya to fulfill work on MLM-U.

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/contract/contractCard/document-info.html?reestrNumber=1770236167416000008

If you look at the documents, you can see that the main part of the money will be spent in 2018... Is the december 2017 launch date really serious ?
Unless its going to be in orbit outfitting then no.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Svetoslav on 03/24/2017 09:33 AM

Anatoly Zak reports that the sawdust contamination from 2013 has returned once again:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/satellites/a25773/mlm-delayed-russia/

To put it simply, this now delays the MLM launch indefinitely.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: DaveS on 04/04/2017 01:15 PM
This is from Anatoly Zak: Even the old spare FGB-2 propellant tanks suffer from the same contamination problem as the primary MLM tanks, so it's on to Plan B of cutting open the tanks and cleaning them: http://russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0404
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: eeergo on 04/04/2017 01:59 PM
How did this infamous "sawdust" get in the tanks in the first place?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 04/04/2017 08:25 PM
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4153589

Two weeks after Anatoly Zak broke the news, Russian media are now also beginning to report on the MLM's latest contamination issues. The TASS news agency quotes an unidentified space industry source as saying that according to preliminary estimates the latest problems could delay the launch until late 2018 or early 2019. Specialists have been given two weeks to assess the situation and provide recommendations to Roscosmos managers. In order to meet its December 2017 target launch date, the MLM would have had to be shipped to Baikonur last month.

The report describes the contaminant as "metal powder" resulting from the module's construction. TASS' source says the tanks may have to be cut open and then welded back together to remove the contamination and that this work would take about a year. The source also says that "all rubber (?) elements of the module have aged and no longer live up to standards". As a result of all this, no one is prepared to sign the documents to clear the module for launch. The source doesn't exclude the possibility that the launch will be cancelled altogether.  This is what some people have privately said should be done, but it's interesting to see this mentioned for the first time in a Russian media report.

Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/04/2017 09:26 PM
Hmm, here's a rather different take on things:

Quote
Roscosmos head Igor Komarov, in a press conference at #33SS, says situation with MLM module for ISS “more complicated than expected.”

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/849371089511821313 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/849371089511821313)

Quote
Komarov: MLM won’t be ready for launch in December as planned, but do expect it to launch in first half of 2018. #33SS

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/849371206113472512 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/849371206113472512)

TASS report sounds more credible to me.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Space Pete on 04/04/2017 11:48 PM
Got to laugh at "sawdust" - is any component of MLM actually made of wood?! :o

I personally suspect that MLM will never launch. The NM and SPMs may fly, but only as part of a future post-ISS Russian station.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: robertross on 04/04/2017 11:52 PM
Got to laugh at "sawdust" - is any component of MLM actually made of wood?! :o

I personally suspect that MLM will never launch. The NM and SPMs may fly, but only as part of a future post-ISS Russian station.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

I suspect now that it won't fly (considering the seal issue)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Space Pete on 04/05/2017 12:04 AM
BREAKING: Officials identify possible source of MLM contimination following inspection of module's factory.  :D  ;D

(Note: No offence intended toward the Russian space industry - I'd just rather laugh at this debacle than cry!)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Space Pete on 04/05/2017 12:33 AM
On a serios note, here's some points to consider if indeed MLM never launches:

. With the RS crew reducing to two until MLM arrives on the basis that there isn't enough science on the RS without MLM to justify 3 crewmembers, would the RS crew ever increase back to three if MLM never flies?

. Will ESA seek compensation from Roscosmos for the ERA, as ERA has no means of launch (and no purpose even if it could be launched by other means) if MLM never flies?

. What happens to the MLM radiator and airlock currently attached to MRM-1?

. Will DC-1 need to be disposed of anyway, as I believe it was never designed to last as long as it already has, yet alone out to potentially 2028.

. Would Roscosmos consider launching a simple "spacer" module (i.e. a cheap, simple cylinder with no fancy systems) in place of MLM, in order to at least allow the NM/SPMs to fly? Perhaps such a module could at least include provision for the MLM airlock (already on-orbit) and ERA?

----------

Edit:

On the subject of Roscosmos wanting out of ISS:

Quote
Komarov: we are ready to discuss an extension of ISS beyond 2024, but no commitment yet.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/849377823357898752
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: woods170 on 04/05/2017 09:46 AM

. Will ESA seek compensation from Roscosmos for the ERA, as ERA has no means of launch (and no purpose even if it could be launched by other means) if MLM never flies?
Unlikely. Upon completion of all work to get ERA ready for flight integration (and that was years ago) the flight hardware formally changed ownership. The Russians are now the owners of the ERA flight hardware. Continued development of the MPTE hardware and software is almost fully paid for by Russia as well. As far as ESA is concerned, ERA is 'done', with no hard obligation for ERA to actually fly. Actually getting ERA to orbit on 'something' would only be the proverbial cherry-on-the-cake.

. What happens to the MLM radiator and airlock currently attached to MRM-1?
Abandon in place. They remain where they are. There is no need to jettison them, much like the ERA spare elbow that is also located on MRM-1.

. Will DC-1 need to be disposed of anyway, as I believe it was never designed to last as long as it already has, yet alone out to potentially 2028.
Neither was the FGB Zarya, but it is still up there, for obvious reasons. In case MLM never flies the prime reason for disposal of DC-1 goes away.

. Would Roscosmos consider launching a simple "spacer" module (i.e. a cheap, simple cylinder with no fancy systems) in place of MLM, in order to at least allow the NM/SPMs to fly? Perhaps such a module could at least include provision for the MLM airlock (already on-orbit) and ERA?
Unlikely that Roscosmos is going to replace MLM with a simple spacer. Roscosmos is cash-strapped and that situation will worsen once CCP is operational. There is barely sufficient funds to fix the MLM problems, let alone funds to come up with a spacer-like replacement.
IMO: if and when the decision is taken to permantly ground MLM, it will mean that NM and NEM/SPM will never make it to ISS either.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: SWGlassPit on 04/05/2017 04:04 PM
. Would Roscosmos consider launching a simple "spacer" module (i.e. a cheap, simple cylinder with no fancy systems) in place of MLM, in order to at least allow the NM/SPMs to fly? Perhaps such a module could at least include provision for the MLM airlock (already on-orbit) and ERA?
Unlikely that Roscosmos is going to replace MLM with a simple spacer. Roscosmos is cash-strapped and that situation will worsen once CCP is operational. There is barely sufficient funds to fix the MLM problems, let alone funds to come up with a spacer-like replacement.
IMO: if and when the decision is taken to permantly ground MLM, it will mean that NM and NEM/SPM will never make it to ISS either.

Let's be clear, even a "simple" spacer is going to be pretty expensive.  It's going to have to provide structural strength, attach mechanisms, MMOD shielding, thermal control, power and data transfer, and ventilation at an absolute bare minimum.  It is still a tens-of-millions-of-dollars class project just to design and build, let alone getting it up there and hooked up.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: The man in the can on 04/05/2017 11:57 PM
A more optimistic tweet from Anatoly Zak
Quote
#Roscosmos got a plan to salvage #ISS' #MLM/#Nauka module tanks without breaching its sealed structure. DETAILS: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0405 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0405)
https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/849629579006406658 (https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/849629579006406658)

It comes with a picture off the MLM
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/18/2017 05:40 AM
A more optimistic tweet from Anatoly Zak
Quote
#Roscosmos got a plan to salvage #ISS' #MLM/#Nauka module tanks without breaching its sealed structure. DETAILS: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0405 (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0405)
https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/849629579006406658 (https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/849629579006406658)

Unfortunately it appears that hasn't worked out:

Quote
GKNPTs Khrunichev drafts a new plan to salvage #MLM/#Nauka module for #ISS. DETAILS: http://russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0417

https://twitter.com/russianspaceweb/status/854044221006901248 (https://twitter.com/russianspaceweb/status/854044221006901248)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Svetoslav on 04/18/2017 07:00 PM
To those who were asking how the hell the sawdust particles got there, presenting you the newest article of Anatoly Zak:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2013.html

Short version: Workers dismantling the pipelines thought that the module was going to be disassembled for scrap.

My reaction: facepalm
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: The man in the can on 05/01/2017 07:34 PM
News from Anatoly Zak
Quote
If contamination problem is not enough, #MLM/#Nauka module propellant tanks show early signs of corrosion. DETAILS: http://russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#corrosion
https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/859069762252525568
 :(
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Nicolas PILLET on 05/01/2017 08:10 PM
Short version: Workers dismantling the pipelines thought that the module was going to be disassembled for scrap.

This is not a good way to sum up the Zak's article. Zak tells us that there is a legend in Khrunichev according to which "Workers dismantling the pipelines thought that the module was going to be disassembled for scrap".

We are very far away from a factual and reliable information. But this is not the goal of the article.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: B. Hendrickx on 05/12/2017 06:24 PM
http://tass.com/science/945678

Quote
MOSCOW, May 12. /TASS/. Russia’s Nauka multi-functional lab module plagued by the contamination problem in its fuel tanks will be delivered to the International Space Station no sooner than August next year, a source in the rocket and space industry told TASS on Friday.

"Today, specialists of the Khrunichev Space Center and the Energiya Rocket and Space Corporation will hold a meeting to approve a new schedule for eliminating faults and preparing the module for the launch. According to the most optimistic forecasts, the module can be launched no sooner than August next year," the source said.
However, late 2018 - 2019 is the real timeframe for the launch, he added.

The Khrunichev Space Center told TASS that "work is under way in compliance with the schedule to rectify faults revealed earlier."

"The launch date will be determined following the results of the joint work by the Khrunichev Center and the Energiya Rocket and Space Corporation," the Khrunichev Space Center said.

A source in the Russian rocket and space industry told TASS in early April that specialists planned to cut the module’s fuel tanks in half after finding contamination inside them for their subsequent cleaning.


Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: PahTo on 05/12/2017 06:34 PM

Thanks for the update.  I wonder if they'll also address the aging seals and other "perishable" components.  15 months seems "fast", but of course all of this is amorphous in terms of timelines and deliverables...
At least the message isn't "We're scrapping it."
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Olaf on 06/15/2017 03:50 PM
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2014.html
Russia considered scrapping troubled Nauka module
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: The man in the can on 06/21/2017 07:33 PM
From Anatoly Zak:
How MLM Nauka module's tanks will be repaired
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-tanks.html (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-tanks.html)
 :)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: DaveS on 08/02/2017 02:42 PM
Latest Nauka news: "Washing Machine" for the contaminated propellant tanks ready: http://russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-tanks.html#rig
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Sam Ho on 09/21/2017 06:27 PM
Latest from Anatoly Zak: The practice run resulted in a leaky test article, so the schedule is under evaluation again.  Launch date is currently NET February 2019.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#0921
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-tanks.html#2017_09
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: topopesto on 09/23/2017 10:56 AM
We don't see never to dock this module. I'm very sad!
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Targeteer on 09/26/2017 06:23 PM
http://aviationweek.com/space/russian-iss-module-launch-delayed-until-late-2018?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170926_AW-05_582&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_3&utm_rid=CPEN1000001748383&utm_campaign=11871&utm_medium=email&elq2=2118e47e3e454e999fc545e159c3aaaf

(registration to see the full article is free)

"ADELAIDE, Australia—Russia does not plan to launch its new science lab to the International Space Station (ISS) until late 2018, likely prolonging the country’s scaled-down staffing of the orbital base, which frees an extra seat aboard Soyuz capsules for NASA or U.S. partners ahead of upcoming commercial space taxis."
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/19/2017 04:21 PM
Quote
Anatoly Zak‏ @RussianSpaceWeb 26s27 seconds ago

The launch of the #MLM module to #ISS set for March 2019. DETAILS: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#1019 …

https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/921048205290336257 (https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/921048205290336257)
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 11/03/2017 09:17 PM
Cross-post:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#1103

Quote
The launch of the MLM module advanced to 2018

On November 2, Director General of RKK Energia Vladimir Solntsev met with the Head of Roskosmos Igor Komarov, who insisted on launching the MLM module before the end of 2018, probably due to political pressure from the Kremlin. To accommodate this requirement, RKK Energia drafted a new timeline, which was approved by the company's leadership on November 3.

The new schedule set the launch of the MLM module for Dec. 20, 2018, followed by its docking at the Russian Segment of the station on Dec. 29, 2018.

According to the latest timeline, the arrival of the module will take place during Expedition 58, which will begin onboard the ISS at the end of October 2018. Shortly after the launch of the MLM module, the Pirs Docking Compartment, SO1, will be undocked from the nadir (Earth-facing) port of the Zvezda Service Module, SM, to make room for the new arrival.

The discarding of Pirs will now be delegated to the Progress MS-09 spacecraft, which is scheduled for launch on June 13, 2018. Progress MS-09 will tug Pirs away from the station and then direct it into the Earth's atmosphere to burn up over the ocean.

In order to leave Earth before the end of 2018, the MLM/Nauka module would have to be shipped to the launch site in Baikonur in March. In case the processing team in Baikonur worked around the clock, the spacecraft could be ready for launch in seven months, leaving up to two months in reserve. However, experts familiar with the matter saw even the March 2019 launch date as overly ambitious and estimated that it would be more realistic to plan the launch around May 2019.

The situation is complicated by the fact that in October, a Roskosmos representative warned that RKK Energia would have only one chance to push the schedule beyond the previously approved launch date in June 2018, before heavy fines would kick in against the company.

The latest schedule is yet to be officially approved by Roskosmos.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2017)
Post by: Olaf on 12/13/2017 07:38 AM
www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html#12
Quote
MLM launch schedule gets official OK
On December 11, the State Commission overseeing preparations for the launch of the MLM Nauka module formally approved the processing schedule culminating with the liftoff of the long-delayed spacecraft on Dec. 20, 2018.
In the first half of December, Russian specialists and their European colleagues had already begun work on preparing some critical components of the MLM module for shipment to the launch site ahead of the spacecraft itself. During this and the coming week, Dutch specialists working on the European Robotic Arm, ERA, designed to be attached to the exterior of the MLM module, are expected to complete the final checks of the flight hardware at RKK Energia's facility in Korolev, near Moscow, and pack it for shipment to the Baikonur Cosmodrome. The components of the ERA manipulator are expected to be among several pieces of hardware for the MLM module that are scheduled to make a train ride to Baikonur as early as February 2018.
According to industry sources, the MLM team will have a reasonable chance to meet the December 2018 launch window if it is able to ship the Nauka module to Baikonur in March. The pre-launch processing of the spacecraft in Baikonur will require at least seven months, leaving a few weeks in reserve to close any unexpected issues. However, this schedule still depends on the successful completion of the tank repairs, which are reportedly still ongoing.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: JW98 on 02/05/2018 04:41 PM
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2018.html

Can someone update the thread title to NET 2018, think 2017 is a bit optimistic!
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Svetoslav on 02/05/2018 04:50 PM
I'd already say it's net 2019, but let the mods decide.

I'll report for them to see.

Edit/Lar: report received. Header post and a couple more edited.  Let's go with 2018 for now...
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Stan Black on 02/22/2018 01:16 PM
Roskosmos has issued a tender for the transportation of the launch vehicle from Khrunichev to the launch site.
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ep44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0995000000218000004
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: deruch on 03/01/2018 10:45 AM
Roskosmos has issued a tender for the transportation of the launch vehicle from Khrunichev to the launch site.
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ep44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0995000000218000004

Link shows completion of work terms with a stated end date of December 1, 2018.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: theonlyspace on 03/01/2018 04:09 PM
So what does this actually mean? Will the Proton and fairing be at the launch complex Dec1 2018 ready for the MLM to be intergarted to it and launched in December 2018 ti ISS?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Stan Black on 03/01/2018 04:44 PM
So what does this actually mean? Will the Proton and fairing be at the launch complex Dec1 2018 ready for the MLM to be intergarted to it and launched in December 2018 ti ISS?


Heres one from 2017…
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ea44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0995000000217000034
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: eeergo on 04/12/2018 08:26 AM
8-month delay (August 2019), as reported in other threads: https://ria.ru/space/20180411/1518428757.html
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Sam Ho on 05/29/2018 05:24 PM
Anatoly Zak now reporting November 2019.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2018.html#05
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Svetoslav on 05/29/2018 05:49 PM
Anybody who believes this will fly? ...
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: redliox on 05/29/2018 06:13 PM
Anybody who believes this will fly? ...

I give it 50/50 since some construction has been done.  In the past Russia was very hesitant to deorbit Mir, so they have a history of being stubborn as well as broke...which amounts to 2 gears grinding against each other which might explain how their agency keeps running but hasn't advanced much since the Soviet era.  I will say if they delay this module much further (which is of course a strong possibility), they might have to consider the option of using it on their own station or as their contribution to the upcoming Gateway station.

Considering how old ISS already is, I'd recommend incorporating Nauka into the plans for Gateway so Russia can get the most bang out of their rubles.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: woods170 on 05/29/2018 07:38 PM
Anybody who believes this will fly? ...

I’m not optimistic.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Ben E on 05/29/2018 09:20 PM
I wonder if MLM is even worth it? Will it really match the science currently being achieved on the USOS?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Bob Shaw on 05/29/2018 09:36 PM
Considering how old ISS already is, I'd recommend incorporating Nauka into the plans for Gateway so Russia can get the most bang out of their rubles.

Surely the more likely solution is to launch it to the Chinese station instead?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: IanThePineapple on 05/29/2018 09:42 PM
If it launches in 2019, it will have at least 5-9 years of operation on the Station (Based on the confirmed up-to-2024 commitments and the proposed 2028 extension). It seems worth it to me, unless it continues getting delayed.

How about launching it to the new Chinese ISS or the Gateway? I don't know, and not much is known about them yet either. A bit too early to say.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Targeteer on 06/14/2018 04:46 AM
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Possible_launch_date_of_Russias_Nauka_module_to_ISS_999.html

...Meanwhile, the launch of Russia's MLM Nauka to the ISS may be postponed until 2020 from 2019, a source at the Baikonur cosmodrome told Sputnik...

Source: Sputnik News
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Phosphorus on 06/26/2018 06:55 AM
Is the Proton launcher for MLM manufactured, and sitting somewhere, waiting for the go-ahead to fly?
Or is it still to be built?

With the upcoming retirement of Proton:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg1833077#msg1833077

I'm curious to know if the launcher for MLM is already in existence, or is part of the final batches to be built?
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: woods170 on 06/26/2018 07:04 AM
Is the Proton launcher for MLM manufactured, and sitting somewhere, waiting for the go-ahead to fly?
Or is it still to be built?

With the upcoming retirement of Proton:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg1833077#msg1833077

I'm curious to know if the launcher for MLM is already in existence, or is part of the final batches to be built?

The only part of the launcher for MLM that is know to actually exist is the fairing. That is because the fairing is a special build. Some of the protrusions of the MLM stick slightly outside the payload envelope, notably where the European Robotic Arm (ERA) is attached to the module. To make room for those protrusions a part of the "skin-on-stringers" construction of the fairing was modified.
Seen from the outside the fairing for MLM looks no different from a regular one, but internally it is different in a few places.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 06/26/2018 05:19 PM
Is the Proton launcher for MLM manufactured, and sitting somewhere, waiting for the go-ahead to fly?
Or is it still to be built?

With the upcoming retirement of Proton:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg1833077#msg1833077

I'm curious to know if the launcher for MLM is already in existence, or is part of the final batches to be built?

The only part of the launcher for MLM that is know to actually exist is the fairing. That is because the fairing is a special build. Some of the protrusions of the MLM stick slightly outside the payload envelope, notably where the European Robotic Arm (ERA) is attached to the module. To make room for those protrusions a part of the "skin-on-stringers" construction of the fairing was modified.
Seen from the outside the fairing for MLM looks no different from a regular one, but internally it is different in a few places.
Every launcher to date that has been assigned to MLM has been flown upon reaching the end of its useful certified life by flying other government payloads. MLM will now have to use a newer Phase-IV as its previous assigned launcher is now launching Blagovest n.º 13L this year (2018: November - Kosmos (Blagovest n.º 13L) - Proton-M/Briz-M - Baikonur (or 2019)). Other wise it will have to wait for Vostochny Site-1A Pad 1 (1A/1) to be finished and launch on Angara-A5M or Angara-A5V.
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: woods170 on 06/27/2018 06:52 AM
Every launcher to date that has been assigned to MLM has been flown upon reaching the end of its useful certified life by flying other government payloads. MLM will now have to use a newer Phase-IV as its previous assigned launcher is now launching Blagovest n.º 13L this year (2018: November - Kosmos (Blagovest n.º 13L) - Proton-M/Briz-M - Baikonur (or 2019)). Other wise it will have to wait for Vostochny Site-1A Pad 1 (1A/1) to be finished and launch on Angara-A5M or Angara-A5V.

Given recent remarks from Mr. Rogozin (http://spacenews.com/new-roscosmos-chief-prioritizes-ending-protons-reign/) it is becoming ever more likely that MLM and the Node Module will never launch at all.

Quote from: Matthew Bodner
The most curious part of Rogozin’s interview with RIA Novosti concerned Russia’s still-unfinished segment of the International Space Station. Three modules have for years now sat in various stages of completion on Russian production floors, subject to mishaps and delays. Rogozin said the five existing modules have been stuck in a prolonged phase of testing.

“I have set a goal to put the Russian segment of ISS into operation,” Rogozin said, using obfuscated bureaucratic prose. What that means wasn’t immediately clear, but Pavel Luzin, an independent Russian space policy analyst, suggests it means Roscosmos is giving up on adding new modules and must use its segment of the station “as is.”

Rogozin said “generally, we will give up all experiments developed over the past 10 years, since they have lost all relevance.”
Title: Re: The Russian Multipurpose Laboratory Module (MLM) Updates Thread (NET 2018)
Post by: Stan Black on 06/30/2018 10:07 AM
Is the Proton launcher for MLM manufactured, and sitting somewhere, waiting for the go-ahead to fly?
Or is it still to be built?

With the upcoming retirement of Proton:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg1833077#msg1833077

I'm curious to know if the launcher for MLM is already in existence, or is part of the final batches to be built?

The only part of the launcher for MLM that is know to actually exist is the fairing. That is because the fairing is a special build. Some of the protrusions of the MLM stick slightly outside the payload envelope, notably where the European Robotic Arm (ERA) is attached to the module. To make room for those protrusions a part of the "skin-on-stringers" construction of the fairing was modified.
Seen from the outside the fairing for MLM looks no different from a regular one, but internally it is different in a few places.
Every launcher to date that has been assigned to MLM has been flown upon reaching the end of its useful certified life by flying other government payloads. MLM will now have to use a newer Phase-IV as its previous assigned launcher is now launching Blagovest n.º 13L this year (2018: November - Kosmos (Blagovest n.º 13L) - Proton-M/Briz-M - Baikonur (or 2019)). Other wise it will have to wait for Vostochny Site-1A Pad 1 (1A/1) to be finished and launch on Angara-A5M or Angara-A5V.

The Proton rockets used to launch W7 and Yahsat-1B both were previously assigned to MLM Nauka.

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/documents.html?noticeId=2405815
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg1088974#msg1088974