NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Chinese Launchers => Topic started by: Liss on 09/02/2009 05:13 pm
-
According to my records there were 110 orbital Chinese launch attempts with 101 launch successes (you have to include the Feng Bao launches):
8 - Feng Bao launches (4 failures)
100 - Chang Zheng launches (3 failures)
2 - Kaituozhe launches (2 failures)
I found an interesting note at http://www.9ifly.cn/sub/viewthread.php?tid=407 regarding a possible third launch failure of KT-1 on June 9, 2005. Unfortunately the only evidence to this is a picture of a special envelope dated that date:
-
Can someone translate the text on it?
-
Can someone translate the text on it?
Above the rocket picture, the sentence reads:
"Commemoration of the third launch of Kaituozhe-1"
At the bottom:
"Taiyuan satellite launch center"
Next to the stamps: "China post post-card"
-
On the same thread at 9ifly there are at least two tables listing the launch failure. Interesting...
-
On the same thread at 9ifly there are at least two tables listing the launch failure. Interesting...
The people at 9ifly are in doubts as I understood, so the presumed launch is uncluded into the big table without number.
-
Is that a Saturn IB on the stamp???
-
Is that a Saturn IB on the stamp???
It is not the Saturn 1B but the Chinese DF-15 tactical missile.
-
According to my records there were 110 orbital Chinese launch attempts with 101 launch successes (you have to include the Feng Bao launches):
8 - Feng Bao launches (4 failures)
100 - Chang Zheng launches (3 failures)
2 - Kaituozhe launches (2 failures)
I found an interesting note at http://www.9ifly.cn/sub/viewthread.php?tid=407 regarding a possible third launch failure of KT-1 on June 9, 2005. Unfortunately the only evidence to this is a picture of a special envelope dated that date:
There exist other philatelic covers from various tracking installations (Xian, Nanning) which commemorate the same event. If such a lot of covers exist from independent locations it is very likely that the launch really occur. According to the postmarks which were used the launch happened between 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. local time. A cover issued by the Xian Tracking Center (Fig. 1) shows together with the KT-1 launch vehicle a box shaped satellite with 2 solar panels (Fig 1a). It is very similar to the microsatellite design by CAST (Fig 2) and indeed according to a 2005 presentation by Roberto Battiston the launch of Microsatellite MS-1 was planned for 2005. The same Xian commemorative cover has a text on the reverse side which tells that the satellite was for testing purposes from a low earth orbit.
But more over there seems to be another mysterious KT-1 launch from Taiyuan. Checking an image (Fig 3) of the PS payload captured at the Zhuhai Air Show 2007 and issued on a Chinese blog one can clearly read from the description that there exist 3 satellites of the PS type - KT-1 PS/PS2/PS3. I looked at the CASIC webpage http://www.casic-sat.com.cn/abouts-1.asp and found that KT-1 PS3 was delivered (to the launch center?) on September 13th 2004. According to the web site the time between delivery and launch of the other 2 other satellites PS and PS2 was nearly one month. One can conclude that the launch of KT-PS3 was planned for October 2004.
-
limen4, that's extremely interesting!
To my uneducated view, the satellite shown an the Xian cover does not look like PS/PS2/PS3 mockup from Zhuhai'2007.
This -- together with the three references at the CASIC site -- leads me to think of a striking possibility of, maybe, two unknown KT-1 launches: one in October 2004 with PS3 and another in June 2005 with MS-1.
Yet I'd like to remind that covers exist for at least two Chang Zheng launches that haven't occur at all: on 22 Mar 1992 with Optus B1 (HT-F4; launched on 14 Aug 1992 and reissued as HT-F6), and on 02 Apr 1994 with Fengyun-2 (01) (HT-F16).
-
-
limen4, that's extremely interesting!
This -- together with the three references at the CASIC site -- leads me to think of a striking possibility of, maybe, two unknown KT-1 launches: one in October 2004 with PS3 and another in June 2005 with MS-1.
It is exactly the same conclusion which I made.
Attached 3 additional commemorative covers of the June 2005 launch.
-
A view of 34 kg KT-1 PS satellite made by Hangtian Tsinghua Satellite Technology Ltd. (now CASIC Satellite Technology Ltd.):
And official descriptions of the three satellites from http://www.casic-sat.com.cn/operation1.asp :
KT-1PS星
该星于 2002年7月完成研制。最小系统包括：RF、电源、遥测 遥控；其载荷为：MCU、磁强计。卫星重量：36kg。帆板采用硅太阳电池 ；无OBC载荷。
KT-1PS2星
该星于 2003年7月完成研制。最小系统包括：RF、电源、遥测遥控；其载荷为：MCU、磁强计和OBC。卫星重量：33.5kg。帆板采用砷化镓太阳电池。
KT-1PS3星
该星于 2004年7月开设研制，同年9月完成，创造了3个研制完成一颗载荷星的记录。
-
Also, the CAST-Mini based MS-1 satellite in question:
(http://bbs.top81.cn/attachments/pw/Day_070125/87_5766_a64a2e37264dfe7.jpg)
See larger views at http://bbs.top81.cn/viewthread.php?tid=23641&sid=VEY0CA .
-
One more question...
It's relatively easy to find an official Chinese report on the KT-1 launch of 2003. For example, http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2003-09/20/content_1091261.htm , or the entry #42 in the year launch table in http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0402/ht0402hthd01.htm :
Well, is there in the net any official information regarding the 2002 launch failure? Is there a photo of KT-1 in flight that pre-dates the acknowledged 2003 failure?
-
One more question...
It's relatively easy to find an official Chinese report on the KT-1 launch of 2003. For example, http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2003-09/20/content_1091261.htm , or the entry #42 in the year launch table in http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0402/ht0402hthd01.htm :
Interesting - I am not sure how much weight to put on the launch table, it looks like it derives from non chinese sources (maybe from the annual launch list in NK? :-))
And I am skeptical of the 2005 'failure'. The evidence presented is that a launch attempt was planned in 2005. But I think it's not inconsistent with the launch being scrubbed for some reason, as opposed to actually launched.
There could have been some kind of launch preparation damage that trashed the rocket even... so evidence of launch preparation is not evidence that an actual launch occurred (although it's certainly a possibility).
Hence, I'm not going to add a launch entry to my records based on the evidence presented to date.
- Jonathan
-
One more question...
It's relatively easy to find an official Chinese report on the KT-1 launch of 2003. For example, http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2003-09/20/content_1091261.htm , or the entry #42 in the year launch table in http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0402/ht0402hthd01.htm :
(http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0402/t1006.jpg)
Well, is there in the net any official information regarding the 2002 launch failure? Is there a photo of KT-1 in flight that pre-dates the acknowledged 2003 failure?
Attached from a "official" CASIC fact sheet. It tells only that the Sep 2002 launch was a test.
Concerning the mysterious 2005 launch - I understand the doubts by Jonathan very well. In every case, if launch occured or not, there remains a lot of questions.
-
Well, is there in the net any official information regarding the 2002 launch failure? Is there a photo of KT-1 in flight that pre-dates the acknowledged 2003 failure?
老兄看得懂中文，我就不写我的跛脚英文了。
1.在一些专业的刊物上承认了2002年发射的失败，比如说，《中国航天》2003年8期的文章《开拓者固体运载火箭发展规划与实施策略研究》。那次是发射不久就爆炸了。
2.2003年的发射是失败的，4级有问题，卫星没有入轨。但是官方的说法是“飞行试验成功”。
-
Thank you ek_31. The article in Aerospace China may be seen in contents but it's not online at http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0308/ht0308ml.htm .
I've seen another reference to the 2002 launch failure at http://61.135.129.207/gb/misc/2003-10/15/content_157385.htm but the link is broken now. Nevertheless, copies of that text are online on Chinese forums, for example, at http://baike.baidu.com/view/1259116.html?goodTagLemma .
-
Thank you ek_31. The article in Aerospace China may be seen in contents but it's not online at http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0308/ht0308ml.htm .
I've seen another reference to the 2002 launch failure at http://61.135.129.207/gb/misc/2003-10/15/content_157385.htm but the link is broken now. Nevertheless, copies of that text are online on Chinese forums, for example, at http://baike.baidu.com/view/1259116.html?goodTagLemma .
You are welcome！
-
One more question...
It's relatively easy to find an official Chinese report on the KT-1 launch of 2003. For example, http://news.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/2003-09/20/content_1091261.htm , or the entry #42 in the year launch table in http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/docs/ht0402/ht0402hthd01.htm :
Well, is there in the net any official information regarding the 2002 launch failure? Is there a photo of KT-1 in flight that pre-dates the acknowledged 2003 failure?
Chinese media confirmed that the 2003 launch was not fully succesful but gave not detailed information. Because no satellite was been found in orbit (by US tracking stations) western observers concluded that a failure of the 4th stage happend which caused that the satellite missed the orbit. I was surprised to find on a China philatelic cover, issued by the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center, the following orbital data of the satellite:
altitude: 307.15 km
inclination: 91,99°
orbital time: 88.7 minutes
How should we interprete this?
-
I was surprised to find on a China philatelic cover, issued by the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center, the following orbital data of the satellite:
altitude: 307.15 km
inclination: 91,99°
orbital time: 88.7 minutes
How should we interprete this?
That's really interesting!
First thought is of course that these are planned orbital parameters because we know from the launch contract at http://app.finance.ifeng.com/data/stock/ggzw.php?id=10766309&symbol=000901 that the scheduled orbit was a 300 km high polar one.
But orbital period of 88.7 min does not correspond to orbital height of 307 km. A circular orbit with 88.7 min period would have a height of some 220 km only. And if we assume that 307.15 km was the apogee height, the corresponding perigee is only 133 km or so. It is low enough for the satellite to reenter after only few orbits so that no reliable orbital determination would be made by the U.S. Strategic Command.
-
I was surprised to find on a China philatelic cover, issued by the Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center, the following orbital data of the satellite:
altitude: 307.15 km
inclination: 91,99°
orbital time: 88.7 minutes
Well, do you mean this cover? I see the parameters at the text at http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4abf844e0100a559.html but not at the cover itself...
Also, the name of the satellite at left, 航天清华一号, does not correspond to the contractual name KT-1PS2.
-
Well, do you mean this cover? I see the parameters at the text at http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4abf844e0100a559.html but not at the cover itself...
Also, the name of the satellite at left, 航天清华一号, does not correspond to the contractual name KT-1PS2.
I attached an image of the 2003 launch cover which I mean. Yes, the satellite designation "Space Tsinghua-1" at the cover is strange and was originally used for the Surrey built satellite launched in 2000. To stimulate the confusion I add the image of a privately made postcard which was sent on the occasion of the 2002 launch from Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center. The sender calls the satellite "Tsinghua-2", maybe because it was the second satellite launched for Tsinghua university. The remaining text I am not able to translate.
By this way, nice to see that some space philatelists are in the comunity.
-
The remaining text I am not able to translate.
My English is too bad to translate this text from Chinese into English.
Type the original text as follows：
张小姐：你好！
今天，在山西岢岚发射了“清华-2”小型科技卫星，它是由清华大学宇航学院研制的卫星，火箭是航天科技集团(I think this is a mistake，it must be 航天科工集团)二院研制的一枚行将退役的军用火箭。
-
The remaining text I am not able to translate.
My English is too bad to translate this text from Chinese into English.
Type the original text as follows：
张小姐：你好！
今天，在山西岢岚发射了“清华-2”小型科技卫星，它是由清华大学宇航学院研制的卫星，火箭是航天科技集团(I think this is a mistake，it must be 航天科工集团)二院研制的一枚行将退役的军用火箭。
Thank you ek_31. Using an online-tool for translation into English the result is:
"Miss Zhang: Hello!
Today, in Shanxi province Kelan city the "Tsinghua -2" small technology satellite, which is developed by the School of Aerospace, Tsinghua University was launched by an retired military rocket, developed by Aerospace Science and Technology Group 2nd department."
Your remark ek_31 is correct. Aerospace Science and Technology Group is wrong. The CASIC 2nd department (China Academy of Space Electro-Mechanical Defence Technology) built the KT-1.
-
Hmm... according to an industry insider, KT-1's third launch was nearly a success: the satellite re-entered after one orbit, with the ground being able to receive signals just after launch. (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=189&pid=99316&fromuid=19646) No idea if it's true or not.
-
I'm revisiting this after a couple of years..
The name Tsinghua-1 was used for the 2000 Surrey satellite. But this name 航天清华一号 is "Hangtian Tsinghua 1"
- Tsinghua Aerospace 1, which presumably refers to Hangtian Tsingua Satellite Technology Ltd., the spinoff company
joint venture between Tsinghua and CASIC which later became CASIC Satellite Technology Ltd.
On a 2010 comment on
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/thread-189-2-1.html user mir-2 quoted an article which talked about the "Hangtian Tsingua STL
..first developed and launched 50 kg midweight Hangtian Tsinghua 1 small satellites", implying that Hangtian Tsinghua 1
might be a bus name for both KT-1PS and KT1-PS2
My questions: [edit]
Does anyone know what the "PS" stands for in KT-1PS? Is it an abbreviation for something Chinese, or for
an English phrase ('Prototype Satellite" perhaps?)
Is there any indication on the philatelic covers (or elsewhere) of the 2003 launch time? I believe the first launch was at 1830 local (1030 UTC) but I don't have a time for the second launch
I note that many of the links in this thread are now broken, and in particular casic-sat.com.cn is defunct (or actually,
squatted by a video download site) so I assume CASIC Sat Tech Ltd no longer exists.
Well, do you mean this cover? I see the parameters at the text at http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4abf844e0100a559.html but not at the cover itself...
Also, the name of the satellite at left, 航天清华一号, does not correspond to the contractual name KT-1PS2.
I attached an image of the 2003 launch cover which I mean. Yes, the satellite designation "Space Tsinghua-1" at the cover is strange and was originally used for the Surrey built satellite launched in 2000. To stimulate the confusion I add the image of a privately made postcard which was sent on the occasion of the 2002 launch from Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center. The sender calls the satellite "Tsinghua-2", maybe because it was the second satellite launched for Tsinghua university. The remaining text I am not able to translate.
By this way, nice to see that some space philatelists are in the comunity.
-
Hmm... according to an industry insider, KT-1's third launch was nearly a success: the satellite re-entered after one orbit, with the ground being able to receive signals just after launch. (http://www.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=189&pid=99316&fromuid=19646) No idea if it's true or not.
I wonder if that's a confusion with the second launch, with its putative ~ 130 km perigee?
-
I'm revisiting this after a couple of years..
The name Tsinghua-1 was used for the 2000 Surrey satellite. But this name 航天清华一号 is "Hangtian Tsinghua 1"
- Tsinghua Aerospace 1, which presumably refers to Hangtian Tsingua Satellite Technology Ltd., the spinoff company
joint venture between Tsinghua and CASIC which later became CASIC Satellite Technology Ltd.
On a 2010 comment on
http://bbs.9ifly.cn/thread-189-2-1.html user mir-2 quoted an article which talked about the "Hangtian Tsingua STL
..first developed and launched 50 kg midweight Hangtian Tsinghua 1 small satellites", implying that Hangtian Tsinghua 1
might be a bus name for both KT-1PS and KT1-PS2
My questions: [edit]
Does anyone know what the "PS" stands for in KT-1PS? Is it an abbreviation for something Chinese, or for
an English phrase ('Prototype Satellite" perhaps?)
Is there any indication on the philatelic covers (or elsewhere) of the 2003 launch time? I believe the first launch was at 1830 local (1030 UTC) but I don't have a time for the second launch
I note that many of the links in this thread are now broken, and in particular casic-sat.com.cn is defunct (or actually,
squatted by a video download site) so I assume CASIC Sat Tech Ltd no longer exists.
1. PS means Pico Satellite (微小卫星)
2. I checked my collection. One cover was postmarked 3:00 p.m. , a second cover at 6:00 p.m. Maybe the first was the planned (local) launch time and the second the real one.
3. I add an image of the KT-1PS satellite. Notice the description at the bottom.
-
1. PS means Pico Satellite (微小卫星)
2. I checked my collection. One cover was postmarked 3:00 p.m. , a second cover at 6:00 p.m. Maybe the first was the planned (local) launch time and the second the real one.
3. I add an image of the KT-1PS satellite. Notice the description at the bottom.
Thanks!