NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
SLS / Orion / Beyond-LEO HSF - Constellation => Orion and Exploration Vehicles => Topic started by: James Lowe1 on 02/23/2006 12:01 am
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http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?id=4322
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Large image of the Lockheed CEV (twin engines!)
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/12043.pdf
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Looks smaller than the other CEV. Not particularly inspiring.
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I think it looks sleeker than the original concept. It looks like they've shrunken the SM.
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It is sleeker, but I think Lockheed may tried to be a bit too different that NG. I'm interested to see diagrams and schematics of the launch system intergration.
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Same here. Need to see more than just an image.
Redundancy with the two engines?
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The actual internal volume doesn't look that much lower because of that spherical extension out the back (less deadweight shell) and the large lump covering the cables going from the CM to SM is a nice touch...
Simon ;)
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Flightstar - 22/2/2006 7:18 PMIt is sleeker, but I think Lockheed may tried to be a bit too different that NG. I'm interested to see diagrams and schematics of the launch system intergration.
Wouldn't be just an interstage?
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Canfield Joint gimballing on the solar panels?
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What up with the attachment of the engines to the SM. looks pretty fragile.
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That looks like a gimbal device too!
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HailColumbia - 22/2/2006 8:54 PMWhat up with the attachment of the engines to the SM. looks pretty fragile.
Someone said in another thread that the engines might be gimbaled.
Edit: Chris beat me to it.
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hyper_snyper - 22/2/2006 7:58 PMHailColumbia - 22/2/2006 8:54 PMWhat up with the attachment of the engines to the SM. looks pretty fragile.
Someone said in another thread that the engines might be gimbaled.
Edit: Chris beat me to it.
With offset redundant engines, they would have to be gimbaled to burn thru the CG of the spacecraft. Cassini had the same thing. The Apollo SM SPS was gimbaled
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Ok, I did some quick'n dirty dimensional analysis; using the dimensions below (based off measuring the LM image), the LM SM has a volume of about 55 m^3, as opposed to the ESAS SM (scaled to 5 metre diameter) of 68 m^3, or a volume loss of just 20% for probably signifigant structural mass losses...
Simon ;)
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Speaking of SM illustrations...
One thing I've noticed in quite a few of these SM concept illustrations - they show the RCS 'pods' in-line with the solar panels. Not only could that subject the panel support and gimbal structures (as well as the panels themselves) to stress every time the back thrusters fire at them (there's no atmosphere to slow the gas velocity before it impacts even though the exhaust spreads out much more in vacuum), but there's the risk of contamination buildup on a good portion of the panel's solar cells with each firing. Also, if the panels swivel to track the sun, any thruster exhaust contamination would end up affecting both sides of each panel.
LOX/LH2 or LOX/CH4 exhaust would mainly be composed of water ice crystals which would sublimate eventually after every firing. However, if they're still seriously considering hypergolics for the RCS, that exhaust residue could play hell with the panel efficiencies over time.
To me it would make sense to reposition the panels at the rear between the thruster pods, away from any direct exhaust. A portion of the exhaust would still affect them, but much less than directly behind.
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The cable tray protector must open or split in half to allow seperation?
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Hotol - 23/2/2006 6:04 AMThe cable tray protector must open or split in half to allow seperation?
just like Apollo's, it would swing outward with the cables
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MKremer - 23/2/2006 1:11 AMSpeaking of SM illustrations...One thing I've noticed in quite a few of these SM concept illustrations - they show the RCS 'pods' in-line with the solar panels. Not only could that subject the panel support and gimbal structures (as well as the panels themselves) to stress every time the back thrusters fire at them (there's no atmosphere to slow the gas velocity before it impacts even though the exhaust spreads out much more in vacuum), but there's the risk of contamination buildup on a good portion of the panel's solar cells with each firing. Also, if the panels swivel to track the sun, any thruster exhaust contamination would end up affecting both sides of each panel.LOX/LH2 or LOX/CH4 exhaust would mainly be composed of water ice crystals which would sublimate eventually after every firing. However, if they're still seriously considering hypergolics for the RCS, that exhaust residue could play hell with the panel efficiencies over time.To me it would make sense to reposition the panels at the rear between the thruster pods, away from any direct exhaust. A portion of the exhaust would still affect them, but much less than directly behind.
High gain Ant placement has the same issues
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I sigh when I know this is going to replace the majesty of......
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I know what you mean and I'm going to miss the Orbiters dearly, but we have to focus on the whys.
Use this argument when NASA went from Apollo to STS.
I'm sure if message boards exsisted, they'd be a guy in Poland saying:
"I sigh when I think we're not going back here for a long, long time....
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Well if it was back then, Poland was a communist country, so it'd been more like "Ha, those silly Americans are going backwards, hooray!" ;)
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Different Pic, No RCS shown
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On the jobs front:
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060223/BUSINESS/602230322/1007/news02
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"The final assembly and integration will be located in the O&C facility located on-site at Kennedy Space Center (KSC), a state-of-the-art facility that will be specifically configured to support CEV final assembly and acceptance testing."
Can someone from the Cape describe to me what the O&C facility is? Is it owned and operated by contractors or civil service and if contractors, which company?
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Bruhn - 23/2/2006 9:50 AM"The final assembly and integration will be located in the O&C facility located on-site at Kennedy Space Center (KSC), a state-of-the-art facility that will be specifically configured to support CEV final assembly and acceptance testing."Can someone from the Cape describe to me what the O&C facility is? Is it owned and operated by contractors or civil service and if contractors, which company?
My office is in the O&C. It is a NASA facility between the SSPF and KSC HQ. It was formerly the MSOB (Manned Spacecraft Operations Building) where the Apollo spacecraft were prepared for launch. It was changed to the Operations and Checkout building for the shuttle area and it was where Spacelab modules, pallets and ISS trusses were prepared. It has labs, offices and large cleanroom/high bay. Boeing operates the facility for NASA.
Side note: There are two places here, Cape Canaveral Air Force Station and the Kennedy Space Center, split by the Banana River. We refer to the Air Force station as the Cape and the NASA Center as KSC. Joinly, they are called the Cape Canaveral Spaceport.
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Thank you Jim and noted about the Cape. So if LM wins the CEV contract and test & integrate in the O&C facility, will the Boeing contractors be rebadged.
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Bruhn - 23/2/2006 10:42 AMThank you Jim and noted about the Cape. So if LM wins the CEV contract and test & integrate in the O&C facility, will the Boeing contractors be rebadged.
Boeing just runs the facility and they could continue in that role, but before that happens I believe the contract (CAPPS) is up for renewal.
Also they could take the facility off of Boeing's hands, who would still have many others that they are responsible for (SSPF, MPPF, PSHF, VPF, MMSE, CRF, etc)
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So what is the LM design? Is it the one with the curved SM or the one above with the more cylindrical SM?
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Both.
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The Florida Today image just above was released by LM a month or longer ago, the first LM CEV image in this thread is their latest rendition.
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Thread moved.
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I have to say I am happy with LM's latest rendition, much different from NG. Atleast were going to have some sort of competition here. Would have been boring if both NG and LM put out identical designs. LM keeps the Apollo Take II image, yet does it in a more modern looking way.