NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Indian Launchers => Topic started by: johnxx9 on 12/10/2008 08:08 am
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INDIA TO SEND A COSMONAUT INTO SPACE IN 2013 BEFORE INDIA LAUNCHES ITS OWN MISSION IN 2015 !!!!!!!!!!!!
AND THE PLANNED COMPLETELY INDIGENOUS ORBITAL VEHICLE HAS BEEN SCRAPPED FOR NOW AND INDIA WILL BE DEVELOPING A SOYUZ BASED CAPSULE WITH RUSSIA JUST LIKE THE CHINESE SHENZHOU!
"New Delhi: An Indian cosmonaut will once again be part of a space mission onboard a Russian spacecraft. To take place by 2013, the mission will come nearly three decades after Wing Commander Rakesh Sharma undertook a historic flight to the Soviet Salyut 7 space station on 2 April 1984.
Wing Commander Sharma remained on board the space station for eight days.
This mission, tentatively scheduled for 2013, will precede a planned Indian manned spaceflight in 2015.
India and Russia signed a memorandum of understanding on joint activities in the field of human spaceflight programme during the recent visit of Russian president Dmitry Medvedev.
"As per the agreement, an Indian astronaut will first go on a space mission on a Russian spacecraft. This will be followed by an Indian manned mission to space in 2015," Indian Space Research Organisation's (ISRO) chairman G Madhavan Nair said.
Under the MoU signed by Nair and his Russian counterpart Anatoly Perminov, ISRO and Russian space agency Roskosmos will jointly build the spacecraft for the Indian manned mission.
"We will be redesigning the Soyuz space capsule of the Russian agency for our mission," Nair said.
The Soyuz remains the world's most reliable space vehicle, though there have been unexplained very high G reentries to earth recently, with American crew on board. ISRO would appear to have made a wise choice in opting for a redesign of the Soyuz.
ISRO has already been sanctioned Rs95 crore to study all aspects of the manned space mission, which will involve a two-member Indian crew spending a week in space. The spacecraft, to be placed in a low earth orbit, will splashdown in the Indian Ocean after completion of the mission.
ISRO has already announced the setting up of an astronaut training centre in Bangalore. It has now said that a batch of 200 would be initially selected before four are finally shortlisted, Of these two would go on the mission. "
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They could just copy and update the gemini, or better make a gemini-soyuz hybrid
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No! The re-entry module design will be completely indigenous resembling the SRE but bigger in size! The orbital module will upgraded to a large extent most probably to the size of Shenzhou orbital module and this also will be worked out mostly by Indians itself!
The problem is the service module, that's where actual Russian help will come in!
We could expect a spacecraft with almost double or greater the volume of Soyuz's orbital module and will be independent unlike Soyuz! The re-entry module will be significantly larger and completely different from the Soyuz re-entry module! The service module will bear many, many similarities to Soyuz but with indigenous Indian components!
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The greater changes will be seen in th re-entry module which will be indigenous and will be same as the ISRO Orbital Vehicle.
The orbital module will be increased in size and should be independent of the whole spacecraft-- somethin like Shenzhou!
The service module will mostly remain the same in design!
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Aviation space week is reporting something similar this week.
something about a 23 acre site being purchsed near the bangalore airport for an astronaught training facility.
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Quote from http://www.domain-b.com/aero/space/spacemissions/20081216_space_mission.html
"The India-Russia joint manned space mission, slated for sometime in 2013, is expected to carry ISRO scientific personnel on board the spacecraft, rather than air force personnel, as in the historic 1984 flight, when then Indian Air Force squadron leader Rakesh Sharma made it to space onboard the Soyuz T-11"
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WOW! India is planning to build 2 manned space-craft at the same time! One will be an indigenous cone shaped module like the Mercury class modules which can carry 2 men and the other a Soyuz-derived space-craft built with Russian help which can carry 3 men!
COOL! All the other space-faring countries would have only one space-craft at a time( Orion, Soyuz and Shenzhou) but they are deciding to have 2 ! They really are serious about manned missions!
'Sharing some details about the maiden manned space flight with scientists, Nair said the ISRO envisaged designing two space modules — for carrying two and three astronauts respectively into space.
In the first manned mission, two Indian astronauts will be sent for a seven-day stay in a low earth orbit — anywhere between 160 km to 2000 km — above the earth’s surface using a GSLV rocket.'
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Jan42009/national20090104110557.asp
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The Indian space program seem to be mirroring the Gemini and Apollo programs in they are going to use a small two place vehicle before the larger vehicle is ready.
I found a pic of the indigenous vehicle it's not a copy of Mercury and Gemini instead it more closely resembles the t/space CXV.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/orbhicle.htm
It also should be noted India also has some RLV work going on as well so they just might surpass the Chinese.
It also seems Soyuz is now the most copied space vehicle.
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The Indian space program seem to be mirroring the Gemini and Apollo programs in they are going to use a small two place vehicle before the larger vehicle is ready.
I found a pic of the indigenous vehicle it's not a copy of Mercury and Gemini instead it more closely resembles the t/space CXV.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/orbhicle.htm
It also should be noted India also has some RLV work going on as well so they just might surpass the Chinese.
It also seems Soyuz is now the most copied space vehicle.
Isn't the CXV cancelled ? And isn't the picture missing the solar panels on the service module ??
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http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/9E63F8AAC13FE1F265257558004D3EC0?OpenDocument
Design being finalized. Closer resemblance to American crew vehicles as it has a service module and a crew module.
Soyuz derivative to be worked on later.
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http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/090211-india-manned-spaceship.html
News on Indian spacecraft today at Space.com...
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Design of ISRO OV
(http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/090211-sn-india-capsule-02.jpg)
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Wow !!!
That`s some news !! With the number of hypersonic technical papers with Indian authors during the past several years, i should have known something was coming. I am more than curious to see how well the design of their spacecraft will turn out as this looks quite different from a Soyuz. Lets hope they will succeed, and i like their schedule, hope they can pull it off.
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News.......................
The 2.5 billion USD for Indian manned mission has been sanctioned and the program has now officially started. The first unmanned launch will be in 2013. Some more info.
London Times
India approves £1.7bn plan to launch astronauts as Asian space race hots up
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5789385.ece
Indian Express
Plan panel okays ISRO manned space flight
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/plan-panel-okays-isro-manned-space-flight/426945/
Domain-b
Planning Commission clears funds for ISRO manned space mission news
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/space/spacemissions/20090223_planning_commission.html
India edunews
ISRO gets green signal for manned space mission
http://www.indiaedunews.net/Science/ISRO_gets_green_signal_for_manned_space_mission_7530/
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So is the US the only country to fly "astronauts"? Everyone else seems to have glommed on to "cosmonaut" terminology.
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So is the US the only country to fly "astronauts"? Everyone else seems to have glommed on to "cosmonaut" terminology.
It used to be spacionaut in French. No idea if that usage has continued (also not sure if I spelled it right--my old Pocket Larousse is from 1971 and doesn't have it).
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So is the US the only country to fly "astronauts"? Everyone else seems to have glommed on to "cosmonaut" terminology.
That meant that an Indian would go aboard the Soyuz making him a cosmonaut.
Indian astronauts are called Gaganauts locally like Taikonauts for Chinese astronauts.
USA - Astronaut
Russia - Cosmonaut
China - Taikonaut
India - Gaganaut
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That meant that an Indian would go aboard the Soyuz making him a cosmonaut.
Indian astronauts are called Gaganauts locally like Taikonauts for Chinese astronauts.
USA - Astronaut
Russia - Cosmonaut
China - Taikonaut
India - Gaganaut
I thought that India would use the term "Tarayatri".
Other names are Angkasawan (Malaysia) and Woojuro (Korea)
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I must say I am somewhat disappointed that ISRO has chosen to partner with Roskosmos rather than NASA on this project ... I really think the US and India should become MUCH closer space partners.
Its a natural alliance I think ... the most powerful democracy and the largest working together to push the boundaries of space exploration just makes more sense than India-Russia.
The next NASA Administrator should be given the authority to broaden and deepen our relationship with ISRO.
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I must say I am somewhat disappointed that ISRO has chosen to partner with Roskosmos rather than NASA on this project ... I really think the US and India should become MUCH closer space partners.
Its a natural alliance I think ... the most powerful democracy and the largest working together to push the boundaries of space exploration just makes more sense than India-Russia.
The next NASA Administrator should be given the authority to broaden and deepen our relationship with ISRO.
US is most unlikely country to transfer hi-technology to other country.
Otherwise US would allow India to the ISS.
So we had an Asian space race now. I'm wondering if India will end up putting men into space. Are they going to do EVA, docking and build spacelab? If so, it would reflect on the infrastructures built in the here future. Like China, instand of building one launch pad, they build two manned space launch pad, so two spaceships can be launched within a month. Then those two spaceships can dock in the space. Other things like, they build a 10m diameters vacuum chamber, which could be used for the future spacelab test, instand of build a 3-5m diameters vacuum chamber, just for the shenzhou spaceship.
Another thing, it possible for India to put a man into space before 2015. Is it possible for India to put a man on the moon in 2020 ?
How many unmanned tests will be performed before manned spaceship ? 2013-2014 for the first unmanned launch, 2014-2015 for the first manned launch. So how many launches can be ramped up in two year ? And also, two man and 7 days flight for the first time ? Isn't it a bit risky ?
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I must say I am somewhat disappointed that ISRO has chosen to partner with Roskosmos rather than NASA on this project ... I really think the US and India should become MUCH closer space partners.
Its a natural alliance I think ... the most powerful democracy and the largest working together to push the boundaries of space exploration just makes more sense than India-Russia.
The next NASA Administrator should be given the authority to broaden and deepen our relationship with ISRO.
US is most unlikely country to transfer hi-technology to other country.
Otherwise US would allow India to the ISS.
So we had an Asian space race now. I'm wondering if India will end up putting men into space. Are they going to do EVA, docking and build spacelab? If so, it would reflect on the infrastructures built in the here future. Like China, instand of building one launch pad, they build two manned space launch pad, so two spaceships can be launched within a month. Then those two spaceships can dock in the space. Other things like, they build a 10m diameters vacuum chamber, which could be used for the future spacelab test, instand of build a 3-5m diameters vacuum chamber, just for the shenzhou spaceship.
Another thing, it possible for India to put a man into space before 2015. Is it possible for India to put a man on the moon in 2020 ?
How many unmanned tests will be performed before manned spaceship ? 2013-2014 for the first unmanned launch, 2014-2015 for the first manned launch. So how many launches can be ramped up in two year ? And also, two man and 7 days flight for the first time ? Isn't it a bit risky ?
There will be about 3-4 unmanned launches in the 2 years pror to the actual launch. Launch abort tests and even a flight with some mice etc like the Chinese is on the board,
In India, 3 successful fights are the minimum requirement for commissioning a launch vehicle, there fore we could expect 3-4 unmanned launches
I must say I am somewhat disappointed that ISRO has chosen to partner with Roskosmos rather than NASA on this project ... I really think the US and India should become MUCH closer space partners.
Its a natural alliance I think ... the most powerful democracy and the largest working together to push the boundaries of space exploration just makes more sense than India-Russia.
The next NASA Administrator should be given the authority to broaden and deepen our relationship with ISRO.
Roskosmos is just providing India with required consultancy, it's not that are completely copying Soyuz. It's like what China did, but that was more secretive.
NASA refused ESA a part in the 'Constellation Program', even though it being NASA's closest partner. Indo-Russian relations have always been very strong and they have helped India and China my times, some where secretive and some are well-known.
I think NASA must now somehow help ESA and JAXA in their manned ambitions.
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Roskosmos is just providing India with required consultancy, it's not that are completely copying Soyuz. It's like what China did, but that was more secretive.
NASA refused ESA a part in the 'Constellation Program', even though it being NASA's closest partner. Indo-Russian relations have always been very strong and they have helped India and China my times, some where secretive and some are well-known.
I think NASA must now somehow help ESA and JAXA in their manned ambitions.
I don't know how Russia participated in the Chinese manned space program. One thing is clear, Russia did helped trianing Chinese astronauts. But according to one chief enginner, China asked Russia to consult for their emergency abort system. But Russia charged 10 million USD. So China refused.
According to information I collected, Russia didn't helped China's manned space project, except trianing astronauts. But why Shenzhou looks so fermiliar to Soyuz ? As long as I know, the shape and three modules structure of Soyuz holds many scientific and engineering expertise, which can be get from a fine toy. And Chinese has tradition to follow the masters rather than innovation. So the resemblance of Shenzhou and Soyuz doesn't nessery means China copied Soyuz, or Russia helped China building Shenzhou. And also when China started to build SSBN, when Russia and China was in confrontation. China did smuggled SSBN toy from USA, to study to the shape of SSBN.
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Roskosmos is just providing India with required consultancy, it's not that are completely copying Soyuz. It's like what China did, but that was more secretive.
NASA refused ESA a part in the 'Constellation Program', even though it being NASA's closest partner. Indo-Russian relations have always been very strong and they have helped India and China my times, some where secretive and some are well-known.
I think NASA must now somehow help ESA and JAXA in their manned ambitions.
I don't know how Russia participated in the Chinese manned space program. One thing is clear, Russia did helped trianing Chinese astronauts. But according to one chief enginner, China asked Russia to consult for their emergency abort system. But Russia charged 10 million USD. So China refused.
According to information I collected, Russia didn't helped China's manned space project, except trianing astronauts. But why Shenzhou looks so fermiliar to Soyuz ? As long as I know, the shape and three modules structure of Soyuz holds many scientific and engineering expertise, which can be get from a fine toy. And Chinese has tradition to follow the masters rather than innovation. So the resemblance of Shenzhou and Soyuz doesn't nessery means China copied Soyuz, or Russia helped China building Shenzhou. And also when China started to build SSBN, when Russia and China was in confrontation. China did smuggled SSBN toy from USA, to study to the shape of SSBN.
I am not saying that Shenzhou is a copy of Soyuz. But the Russians have helped them with consultation in some fields. Similarly, the Indian orbital vehicle has also borrowed some of the ideas from Soyuz, but frankly speaking there is a lot of difference between Soyuz, Shenzhou and the Indian OV.
For example, the OV will have the largest re-entry among the three. The Shenzhou has an independent orbital module etc etc etc.
My view is that both the Indians and Chinese received some help help in the past to pursue their space-ambitions. Let's be clear. No country can develop everything indigenously!
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Lets not forget that practically all current rocket engines are directly or indirectly based on German WWII work on the V2 and further development by German engineers imported to the US and Russia. Today copying is always frowned upon but in reallity that's why innovation works, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Ideally you would pay for using developments from others but that hasn't been the case for a lot of things.
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I'm bit confused. Talking about making toy or car, if one is very fermiliar to another, we can say there is IP violation. But talking about making spaceship, fighters, plane or sophisticated weapon system, the resemblance also means IP violation ?