Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/10/2007 03:43 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5305 - based on L2 information, with some of what is a wonderful e-mail/memo written by Wayne Hale. We have a ton of info flowing, so there will be more articles to follow.
All STS-122 latest into this thread.
Post by: brihath on 12/10/2007 04:05 pm
Post by: Joffan on 12/10/2007 04:10 pm
Post by: Rob in KC on 12/10/2007 04:11 pm
Quote
brihath - 10/12/2007 11:05 AM
Every time I see Wayne Hale at a Press Conference or read one of his memos/emails, I am impressed by the level of calm professionalism he represents. He is an excellent model for all the professionals who work in the space business, whether NASA or contractors. I don't work in the industry, but to have a mentor or leader of his caliber would be, I think, very rewarding.
Couldn't agree more. The guy is really valuable to the program and having read the full orginal memo on L2, I gained even more respect for him and the entire team, both for and against launching with working ECO sensors or not.
Another great article.
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 12/10/2007 05:29 pm
Was interested to also read about how they are taking this forward. Any idea how long the Time-Domain Reflectometer troubleshooting will take?
Post by: JMS on 12/10/2007 05:51 pm
And I'll add, I'm another unabashed Wayne Hale admirer.
The definition of calm reasoned leadership.
Post by: vt_hokie on 12/10/2007 06:02 pm
Quote
JMS - 10/12/2007 1:51 PM
Excellent article Chris. Thank you.
Indeed, thanks for the updates! Man, you spend a couple of days away from a computer, and you miss a lot! So much to catch up on...
Post by: uko on 12/10/2007 06:41 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/10/2007 07:03 pm
Quote
Pete at Edwards - 10/12/2007 6:29 PM
Really great article.
Was interested to also read about how they are taking this forward. Any idea how long the Time-Domain Reflectometer troubleshooting will take?
Oh, thanks everyone :)
We don't know the timescale yet. They had a meeting this morning and they have more later. Big, big effort.
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/10/2007 07:13 pm
Post by: JayP on 12/10/2007 08:18 pm
Quote
Pete at Edwards - 10/12/2007 12:29 PM
Really great article.
Was interested to also read about how they are taking this forward. Any idea how long the Time-Domain Reflectometer troubleshooting will take?
TDR testing shouldn't take long once they can get in there. Telephone line-men use it all the time to find breaks.
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/10/2007 08:34 pm
Post by: joncz on 12/10/2007 09:02 pm
First, up until now, the ECO failures didn't repeat on the retanking. This failure on ECO #3 has repeated itself once and NASA hopes it will occur when they do their tanking test.
Second, TDR is an intrusive test. It requires the sender/receiver unit be introduced into the system to send the echo pulse; it can't be done on a circuit that has other traffic live on it. In fact, I expect NASA will need multiple TDR units so they can characterize good circuits from the failed one. This means NASA is likely to disconnect the Point Sensor Box (eliminate echoes from that side of the circuit) and run the tanking test with TDRs in its place.
Post by: avollhar on 12/10/2007 09:33 pm
I just hope he gets the support from higher level personnel, he certainly deserves it.
Post by: on 12/10/2007 10:55 pm
Post by: hyper_snyper on 12/10/2007 11:31 pm
The catastrophic failure that would happen if the tank ran dry....what would it look like? From Hale's memo it sounds like it would be a danger to the vehicle. I always thought it would be engine out and the motor would be permanently damaged but the vehicle would be okay. Are we looking at something like a violent explosion or rupture of the SSME were this to happen?
Post by: chksix on 12/10/2007 11:40 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/10/2007 11:46 pm
Quote
hyper_snyper - 11/12/2007 12:31 AM
Question about the article.
The catastrophic failure that would happen if the tank ran dry....what would it look like? From Hale's memo it sounds like it would be a danger to the vehicle. I always thought it would be engine out and the motor would be permanently damaged but the vehicle would be okay. Are we looking at something like a violent explosion or rupture of the SSME were this to happen?
I quoted some L2 content on that into the previous article: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5304
About a third way through.
Basically, it's LOV/C via explosion/fire etc. Destroying the vehicle from the aft. Crew wouldn't stand a chance.
Post by: joncz on 12/10/2007 11:55 pm
http://www.enginehistory.org/ssme.htm
There are photos in the PDFs showing powerheads (or what was left) when they ran dry.
Post by: hey you on 12/11/2007 12:51 am
Documentation, the one line that stood out slightly more than many of the others to me is:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O-7. Specific issues with two of the PSBs tested during the STS-114 troubleshooting have yet to be resolved. The PSB S/N 112 power converter has been noisy. This may be related to power converter instability or limit cycle regulation. Age may affect capacitor properties that can also possibly affect stability. This should be investigated further to ensure high reliability. In addition, the potential for copper path damage between the signal conditioner card circuitry and electrical connector in PSB S/N 111 should be assessed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The comments about ***stability*** and noise are issues that sometimes can be associated with intermittent
behavior of electronic circuits. If a circuit is right on the edge of breaking into oscillation (to throw buzzwords
around: very small phase margin and/or very small gain margin) small pertubations can cause drastically
different circuit responses. At this very top level, the same verbage could be used to describe the overall
operation the ECO sensor *system* (as someone pointed out in an earlier post). Likewise, the noise that is mentioned may or may not be anything else than a parasitic oscillation. Some experience (lets not bother to
qualify what and/or how much) leads to a willingness by at least one person to describe such circuit operation
as "squirrelly". In other words, chaotic, unpredictable. Hmmm, that sure sounds familar although at best that is
only a correlation and is not anything on which to claim cause and effect. However, it seems sufficient to include
it in a fault tree when an effort is undertaken to isolate the cause of the problem.
In the mode of "modified brainstorming" [unlike normal brainstorming in which negative or critical remarks
are not allowed, such remarks are allowed if used to be building blocks], it seems to me that NASA should
put together about 4 teams (remarks about the economics farther below). One of the teams, if at all possible,
would be those that put together the STS 114 anomaly document. Two of the teams should be from
universities with individuals specializing in control systems and circuit design. One of these would be
from a more theoretically oriented institution while the second would be from a place taking a more practical
pragmatic approach. The fourth team would be an outside consulting firm with established expertise in
control systems and circuit design.
The product would include a design review presentation, computer simulations (including worst case for
both the circuit and control system requirements), parasitic effects due to how the units and system are
physically constructed. Each team would first independently present to NASA (projecting a half day -- if
it is more than there is more going on inside the circuitry than I am guessing.) After this (following NASA
feedback) the 4 teams would meet jointly with NASA sharing, exchanging viewpoints, and critiquing the
other teams approach to the problem. At this point, it is hoped, but not guaranteed, that some clarity will
have developed for a constructive path to take to resolve this entire situation in a timely, safe, and
effective manner.
BTW, in addition, I would also expect a very large number of Monte Carlo simulations to be run. The computer
models for devices would have to be extensive enough to reflect the full operating range (including nonlinearities
such as transistors turning on and off). Some challenges might be encountered for things like supply
line variations, for instance, but lets take one step at a time.
As for finances, we could do a simplified analysis based on lost opportunity costs due to postponements.
An effort such as putting four teams together for such a short intense effort would not be large compared to the
hidden costs lost in the delays that are happening.
Finally, it is good to see the discussion from multiple postings have delved down to a deeper level
of detail. That is the good news. The possible bad news is that there might be several more levels. I would
expect at least one more deeper and more detailed level of logic diagrams plus another level to get to
circuit diagrams.
The good news is that things appear to being looked at more closely. The bad news is that it might take
a much deeper level of looking. There are a lot of details that could be brought out for review when one
gets to this level. Sometimes, they have been taken into account. Other times,...........
So, a one line summary: parasitic oscillatiions inside a unit could (no guarantee) give unpredictable "chaotic
appearing" operation similar to what is being seen with the ECO sensor system.
Post by: KSC Engineer on 12/11/2007 01:18 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 08:24 am
Quote
Justin Wheat - 10/12/2007 11:55 PM
Is there going to be a press conference tomorrow after the team meets?
Yep.
Post by: Paul Howard on 12/11/2007 12:49 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 10/12/2007 10:43 AM
New thread to lead up to the NET Jan 2 launch date.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5305 - based on L2 information, with some of what is a wonderful e-mail/memo written by Wayne Hale. We have a ton of info flowing, so there will be more articles to follow.
All STS-122 latest into this thread.
Thank God we have this site, with quality articles like this, with no dramatization of the facts.
Post by: uko on 12/11/2007 01:37 pm
:)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 01:54 pm
And Uko, not the first time, won't be the last time ;)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 01:54 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 02:04 pm
HOUSTON - NASA will host a media teleconference with Space Shuttle
Program Manager Wayne Hale at approximately 2:30 p.m. CST, Tuesday,
Dec. 11, to discuss the status of shuttle Atlantis' launch on the
upcoming STS-122 mission.
The teleconference will follow a meeting chaired by Hale that will lay
out options to better understand recurring problems with the
low-level engine cutoff, or ECO, sensor system in the shuttle and its
external fuel tank. Shuttle managers postponed Atlantis' planned
launches on Dec. 6 and Dec. 9 because of false readings from the
sensor system that monitors the liquid hydrogen section of the tank.
The system is one of several that protects the shuttle's main engines
by triggering their shut down if fuel runs unexpectedly low.
NASA has formed a troubleshooting team to develop a forward plan of
action to address the problem. The team will present its findings and
recommendations to the Space Shuttle Program Tuesday morning.
To participate in the teleconference, reporters must R.S.V.P. by 1:30
p.m. Tuesday to NASA's Johnson Space Center newsroom at 281-483-5111.
Live audio of the event will be streamed online at:
http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio
Post by: JMS on 12/11/2007 02:32 pm
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=26303
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/11/2007 02:54 pm
Quote
JMS - 11/12/2007 4:32 PM
Hale "Not Done Yet"... from SpaceRef.com
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=26303
I think Wayne would do pretty darn good as a motivational speaker after the shutte program. His memos are very inspirational and it's a great pleasure reading them. What he says is also very true. There are better paid jobs out there, but I can't see any job beeing more exciting than working in the shuttle program in its final days.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 03:34 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5306
Post by: on 12/11/2007 03:50 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 03:52 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 11/12/2007 4:50 PM
so if they do option 1 we could be looking at a early January launch, right?
Yes sir. Hopefully.
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/11/2007 04:31 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 11/12/2007 10:52 AMQuoteJustin Wheat - 11/12/2007 4:50 PM
so if they do option 1 we could be looking at a early January launch, right?
Yes sir. Hopefully.
What day would the tanking test ocurr next week, Chris. Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't see it anywhere in the article. Great article BTW!!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2007 04:48 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 11/12/2007 5:31 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 11/12/2007 10:52 AMQuoteJustin Wheat - 11/12/2007 4:50 PM
so if they do option 1 we could be looking at a early January launch, right?
Yes sir. Hopefully.
What day would the tanking test ocurr next week, Chris. Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't see it anywhere in the article. Great article BTW!!
NET Dec 17-18.
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/11/2007 05:12 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 11/12/2007 11:48 AMQuoteshuttlefan - 11/12/2007 5:31 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 11/12/2007 10:52 AMQuoteJustin Wheat - 11/12/2007 4:50 PM
so if they do option 1 we could be looking at a early January launch, right?
Yes sir. Hopefully.
What day would the tanking test ocurr next week, Chris. Sorry if I missed it, but I didn't see it anywhere in the article. Great article BTW!!
NET Dec 17-18.
Great, thanks!
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/11/2007 07:14 pm
Post by: marshallsplace on 12/11/2007 07:23 pm
Even though the launch attempt has ended in a major trouble shooting session over the next few weeks or so, this could have all happened (and started) in January 2008. Now that would have really put things back.
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 07:31 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 11/12/2007 10:04 AM
NASA ANNOUNCES TELECONFERENCE ABOUT SPACE SHUTTLE LAUNCH PLAN
Live audio of the event will be streamed online at:
http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio
Bump as it's beginning.
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 07:32 pm
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 07:34 pm
Post by: dember on 12/11/2007 07:34 pm
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 07:36 pm
Post by: Mark Max Q on 12/11/2007 07:37 pm
Quote
rdale - 11/12/2007 2:34 PM
Really all he did was rehash Chris' main story, on to questions already.
I was just thinking that :laugh:
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 07:38 pm
How Wayne held back amazes me...
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 07:41 pm
Post by: Maverick on 12/11/2007 08:04 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 11/12/2007 10:34 AM
We have the presentation etc on L2, which is being presented to the PRCB right now, and I've done a quick overview of the forward plan (more to come):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5306
A several hours later, it was like Wayne Hale was reading from it with the plan :)
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/11/2007 08:59 pm
Post by: jimmiemac on 12/11/2007 09:17 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 11/12/2007 1:59 PM
So will the ET just be loaded with LH2 or LH2 and LOX?
Looks like LH2 only. From http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html
"Technicians and engineers in NASA's space shuttle program plan to test the engine cutoff sensor system onboard space shuttle Atlantis by pumping super-cold liquid hydrogen into the external fuel tank. The test is tentatively planned for Dec. 18. It will be conducted at the launch pad at Kennedy Space Center where Atlantis remains poised for launch"
Post by: Bubbinski on 12/11/2007 09:44 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/11/2007 09:51 pm
Quote
Bubbinski - 11/12/2007 5:44 PMTanking counts as one cycle, pressurization counts as another, so they could theoretically tank more than 6 or 7 times as long as they don't repeatedly go inside LO2 tank pressurization at a little inside T-3 minutes (the LH2 tank pressurization occurs about a minute later) and then have to scrub.
How does this partial fuel load affect the number of launch attempts the tank is good for? I've been under the impression from reading this forum that the shuttle ET is certified for 13 cycles - 6 or 7 launch attempts. The ET has been fueled twice already, the tanking test would make it 3 times.
Post by: rdale on 12/11/2007 09:52 pm
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/12/2007 12:40 pm
Post by: SimonShuttle on 12/12/2007 01:03 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 12/12/2007 7:40 AM
Will the Ice Inspection Team also go out to the pad and collect data about the ET's condition Tuesday, or is that not required for this test?
Yeah, I think that's a given as cryo cycles = can affect foam.
Post by: rdale on 12/12/2007 01:58 pm
Quote
SimonShuttle - 12/12/2007 9:03 AM
Yeah, I think that's a given as cryo cycles = can affect foam.
I thought the ice team went out to check for ice that might fall off and damage the system during launch?
Post by: James (Lockheed) on 12/12/2007 04:22 pm
Quote
rdale - 12/12/2007 8:58 AMQuoteSimonShuttle - 12/12/2007 9:03 AM
Yeah, I think that's a given as cryo cycles = can affect foam.
I thought the ice team went out to check for ice that might fall off and damage the system during launch?
Correct, though inclusive of all debris related hazards, such as cryo induced foam cracks etc. It is an operation based on an impending launch.
Post by: on 12/12/2007 04:30 pm
In radiology they use sealed liquid crystals at the end of optical fibres to gauge temperatures in treatment situations - sometimes in vivo.
If you used such, one could avoid various electronic/cryogenic issues. Such a system works in very hostile environments, as used in certain military testing with this same arrangement.
So whats the problem with using it in the ET? Please cure my stupidity on this issue.
Post by: zeke01 on 12/12/2007 05:32 pm
Post by: on 12/12/2007 06:40 pm
If there were to be issues, my guess would be thermal shock/cycling and or change in properties of the fiber optics that make the sensors hard to read - e.g. you have to choose bandwidths between the absorption peaks.
I'm just wondering if the work has been done.
These things already work in far more hostile environments then a LH2 tank. I've seen them used at Berkeley and Batavia in supercooled LHe2 tanks far colder, and used with quantum level measurement. And they are used in even more unusual environments than described...
Post by: Mike_1179 on 12/12/2007 08:08 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/12/2007 08:20 pm
Quote
Mike_1179 - 12/12/2007 9:08 PM
But the issue is likely not with the sensors, it's with the wiring and circuitry in the tank and the Point Sensor Box.
Correct, and given the absolute bulk of L2 documentation on the issue focuses on the LH2 feedthrough connector, that's the top candidate so far.
Post by: on 12/12/2007 08:54 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 12/12/2007 3:20 PMQuoteMike_1179 - 12/12/2007 9:08 PM But the issue is likely not with the sensors, it's with the wiring and circuitry in the tank and the Point Sensor Box.Correct, and given the absolute bulk of L2 documentation on the issue focuses on the LH2 feedthrough connector, that's the top candidate so far.
If that is the case then would that be a quick and easy fix at the pad?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/12/2007 09:23 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 12/12/2007 9:54 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 12/12/2007 3:20 PMQuoteMike_1179 - 12/12/2007 9:08 PM But the issue is likely not with the sensors, it's with the wiring and circuitry in the tank and the Point Sensor Box.Correct, and given the absolute bulk of L2 documentation on the issue focuses on the LH2 feedthrough connector, that's the top candidate so far.If that is the case then would that be a quick and easy fix at the pad?
They've got to prove it, and no, it wouldn't be simple to R&R.
The main issue is a lot of documentation "proves" it tested out fine....but the kicker is it's only tested in cryos when during tanking. That's why they are resimulating via a tanking test.
Post by: ChrisC on 12/12/2007 11:25 pm
Note that I am NOT on L2. And will remain that way, otherwise I'd never leave this site :)
Post by: Joffan on 12/13/2007 12:04 am
Quote
ChrisC - 12/12/2007 5:25 PM
Regarding the LH2 feedthrough area, I liked the theory proposed by someone here that perhaps in addition to the cryo environment, it had something to do with the mass loading of the tank. That is, as the tank gets loaded with tons of fuel, the structure deforms in a way (unnoticed until ... next Tuesday!) that is causing those connectors to lose contact. On one hand it doesn't make sense because the tank isn't hanging off the shuttle, it's the opposite, so the mass loading of the tank should have no effect on that interface, but perhaps it does strain the tank structure between the shuttle attachment points in a way that causes a strain / disconnect at that feedthrough. Anyway, that was the most interesting theory I've heard so far.
Note that I am NOT on L2. And will remain that way, otherwise I'd never leave this site :)
Mass loading should certainly deform the tank, as it now has more mass at the bottom than the top; and temperature effects may cause some deformation also, although I fully expect that the NASA designers will know by how much in both cases. Any deformation could feasibly strain a linkage along the siganl path. So yes, a very interesting and plausible theory; which does not of course make it true.
And sadly I feel exactly as you do about L2... I'd love to join, but I don't know if I trust myself to limit my time on there :o !
Post by: Ford Mustang on 12/13/2007 02:31 am
There's a webcam in the SSPF, saying 'Columbus Module in SSPF Highbay'. Has the module been transported BACK to the SSPF, or have they not updated it yet?
[small]Reference image located below.[/small]
Post by: nathan.moeller on 12/13/2007 04:28 am
Quote
Ford Mustang - 12/12/2007 9:31 PM
Just confirming what I think I'm seeing..
There's a webcam in the SSPF, saying 'Columbus Module in SSPF Highbay'. Has the module been transported BACK to the SSPF, or have they not updated it yet?
[small]Reference image located below.[/small]
Hasn't been updated. There's no reason to take Columbus back to the SSPF. If they remove it from the payload bay, it'll just sit in the PCR in the RSS until they're ready to fly. Even then, I can't think of a great reason to remove it (yet).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/13/2007 10:29 am
More articles to come over the coming days, so to the ones above speaking about L2 wishes, fear not, I'll be writing up as much as possible into articles.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/13/2007 01:30 pm
Post by: on 12/13/2007 03:09 pm
Post by: ETEE on 12/13/2007 03:37 pm
Quote
Joffan - 13/12/2007 1:04 AMQuoteChrisC - 12/12/2007 5:25 PM
Regarding the LH2 feedthrough area, I liked the theory proposed by someone here that perhaps in addition to the cryo environment, it had something to do with the mass loading of the tank. That is, as the tank gets loaded with tons of fuel, the structure deforms in a way (unnoticed until ... next Tuesday!) that is causing those connectors to lose contact. On one hand it doesn't make sense because the tank isn't hanging off the shuttle, it's the opposite, so the mass loading of the tank should have no effect on that interface, but perhaps it does strain the tank structure between the shuttle attachment points in a way that causes a strain / disconnect at that feedthrough. Anyway, that was the most interesting theory I've heard so far.
Note that I am NOT on L2. And will remain that way, otherwise I'd never leave this site :)
Mass loading should certainly deform the tank, as it now has more mass at the bottom than the top; and temperature effects may cause some deformation also, although I fully expect that the NASA designers will know by how much in both cases. Any deformation could feasibly strain a linkage along the siganl path. So yes, a very interesting and plausible theory; which does not of course make it true.
And sadly I feel exactly as you do about L2... I'd love to join, but I don't know if I trust myself to limit my time on there :o !
Unfortunately only the hydrogen tank will be filled for the tanking test. To simulate the mass and coldness of the whole flight ready ET they should really fill the oxygen tank as well, although I realise that the hydrogen sensor circuits are most under suspicion.
Another cause that hasn't been mentioned here is the expansion/contraction of the sensor cable runs especially that which runs inside the tanks. That could be a factor with cryogenic temperatures turning a loose wire taut and possibly breaking it.
So sorry I don't get L2 either or should that be LH2?
Post by: Andy USA on 12/13/2007 03:47 pm
Post by: DaveS on 12/13/2007 05:06 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 13/12/2007 5:09 PMTanking is planned to start at 7 am EST Tuesday and only LH2 will be loaded.
What time is the test going to be performed?
Post by: dember on 12/13/2007 05:31 pm
Post by: anik on 12/13/2007 05:56 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/13/2007 07:10 pm
STS-122: Troubleshooting begins at pad - NASA identify fault candidate
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5309
Post by: David AF on 12/13/2007 07:32 pm
Post by: catdlr on 12/13/2007 07:40 pm
Quote from your article "'Postulated Failure Mechanism Summary: Circuit break caused by contamination of contacts between external plug and feed through pins and internal movement of plug sockets. Contamination is the result of condensing and freezing of air and water vapor within connector on feed through pin surfaces. Solid air and ice are effectively electrical insulators. Cryopumping of ambient air is expected through harness. "
Looks like the engineers have ICE-olated the problem
Post by: DaveS on 12/13/2007 07:45 pm
Quote
catdlr - 13/12/2007 9:40 PMNo. It's a hypothesis not yet confirmed made from bench tests. It could be A cause, but it's not yet THE cause for Atlantis' LLCO system problems. This is what the tanking test next week is going to show.
Looks like the engineers have ICE-olated the problem
Atlantis' problems could be as simple as a faulty connector pin or damaged wiring etc. But until the tanking test have been concluded and the results analyzed, it's to early to say they have isolated the problem.
Post by: Peter NASA on 12/13/2007 07:51 pm
By the way, very very good article Chris. That was a complex presentation to summarize.
Post by: trlstyle on 12/13/2007 08:06 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/13/2007 08:21 pm
Quote
trlstyle - 13/12/2007 9:06 PM
I hope it is not the 7th. I liked the idea of the 2nd a lot more.
It won't be the 2nd. Hale already made that clear.
Post by: Bubbinski on 12/13/2007 08:23 pm
Post by: Jim on 12/13/2007 08:27 pm
Post by: DaveS on 12/13/2007 08:35 pm
Quote
Bubbinski - 13/12/2007 10:23 PMI have calculated the launch time for a 7th launch to be approx. 3:50 am EST.
Is there a launch window chart for the entire January window? All I've seen so far is the 5:45 am time for 1/2 (Bill Harwood and some areas on this forum) and the one chart going up to the 7th on L2.
Here's my launch window list:
Jan 2: 5:45 am EST
Jan 3: 5:22 am EST
Jan 4: 4:59 am EST
Jan 5: 4:36 am EST
Jan 6: 4:13 am EST
Jan 7: 3:50 am EST
Post by: on 12/13/2007 09:01 pm
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html
Post by: marshallsplace on 12/13/2007 09:04 pm
"Regarding the LH2 feedthrough area, I liked the theory proposed by someone here that perhaps in addition to the cryo environment, it had something to do with the mass loading of the tank. That is, as the tank gets loaded with tons of fuel, the structure deforms in a way (unnoticed until ... next Tuesday!) that is causing those connectors to lose contact. On one hand it doesn't make sense because the tank isn't hanging off the shuttle, it's the opposite, so the mass loading of the tank should have no effect on that interface, but perhaps it does strain the tank structure between the shuttle attachment points in a way that causes a strain / disconnect at that feedthrough. Anyway, that was the most interesting theory I've heard so far."
OK to add my two-penneth worth:
If the ECO connection could become open circuit when the ET is loaded, then when the ET is depleted (like before MECO) couldn't the connection close again?
I dream for the time and money for L2 :)
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 12/13/2007 09:06 pm
Post by: DaveS on 12/13/2007 09:22 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 13/12/2007 11:01 PMApprox. launch times for the first two weeks of January 2008:
Nasa.gov is now saying the target launch date is Jan. 10th.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html
Jan 1: 6:08 am EST
Jan 2: 5:45 am EST
Jan 3: 5:22 am EST
Jan 4: 4:59 am EST
Jan 5: 4:36 am EST
Jan 6: 4:13 am EST
Jan 7: 3:50 am EST
Jan 8: 3:27 am EST
Jan 9: 3:04 am EST
Jan 10: 2:41 am EST
Jan 12: 2:18 am EST
Jan 13: 1:53 am EST
Jan 14: 1:30 am EST
Post by: Rocket Guy on 12/13/2007 09:27 pm
Post by: Davie OPF on 12/13/2007 09:35 pm
Post by: FloridaGirl on 12/13/2007 11:40 pm
:)
Post by: Andrewwski on 12/14/2007 01:03 am
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10458&start=136&posts=136
Post by: Space101 on 12/14/2007 09:43 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 13/12/2007 2:10 PM
From L2 information, including a key presentation, dated today:
STS-122: Troubleshooting begins at pad - NASA identify fault candidate
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5309
Very impressed by the work the engineers aer putting in on this fault tree. Thanks for the excellent write up.
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/14/2007 11:57 am
Post by: Martin FL on 12/14/2007 12:34 pm
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9511&posts=115&mid=224039#M224039
Post by: aquarius on 12/14/2007 12:58 pm
Post by: ETEE on 12/14/2007 02:01 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/14/2007 02:41 pm
Quote
aquarius - 14/12/2007 8:58 AMLooks like the next beta angle cutout wouldn't be until early/mid May.
When does the January launch window close?
Post by: psloss on 12/14/2007 02:47 pm
Quote
ETEE - 14/12/2007 10:01 AMProbably not, given the renovation and Constellation work being done there right now:
Couldn't they use the other pad for STS-123?
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5042
The requirement was to support LON for STS-125 (some of the caveats are noted in the article above), which likely won't be needed until early summer.
Post by: psloss on 12/14/2007 08:13 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Post by: mkirk on 12/14/2007 09:34 pm
Here is the Shuttle Status Report from Candrea Thomas at KSC PAO:
Mission: STS-122 - 24th International Space Station Flight - Columbus
Module
Vehicle: Atlantis (OV-104)
Location: Launch Pad 39A
Launch Date: Targeted for Jan. 10, 2008
Crew: Frick, Poindexter, Schlegel, Eyharts, Love, Melvin, Walheim
Inclination/Orbit Altitude: 51.6 degrees/122 nautical miles
Shuttle Program managers decided Thursday to target Jan. 10, 2008, to
launch the STS-122 mission.
At Launch Pad 39A, preparations continue for a Dec. 18 tanking test to
troubleshoot the engine cutoff (ECO) sensors. Test wiring has been
spliced into an electrical harness in the aft main engine compartment
connected with the ECO sensor system. The attached wiring leads to
the interior of the mobile launcher platform where the time domain
reflectometry (TDR) test equipment will be located. This wiring is
being tested today. On Wednesday in the Vehicle Assembly Building,
the TDR was connected to the external tank to be used for STS-123.
This allowed a "dry" ambient temperature signature to be identified.
Friday in Kennedy Space Center's cryogenic test bed facility, TDR
instrumentation is being exposed to "wet" super-cold temperatures for
identifying the signature of a cryogenic environment and calibrating
the TDR equipment. Saturday, the TDR will be taken to the launch pad
and installed. The GO2 battery recharge was completed and the GH2
battery recharge is planned for Friday. Aft Propulsion System and
Forward Reaction Control System GHe QD leak checks and disconnects
were completed. Hard window cover installation is complete.
Mark Kirkman
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/14/2007 10:34 pm
NASA TV Coverage Set for Spacewalk, Shuttle Fueling Test
WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- NASA Television will provide simultaneous live coverage of a spacewalk by the International Space Station crew and a shuttle fueling test at NASA's Kennedy Space Center, Fla., on Tuesday, Dec. 18.
Expedition 16 Station Commander Peggy Whitson and Flight Engineer Dan Tani are set to venture outside the station at about 6 a.m. EST to perform a detailed inspection of a giant rotary joint where contamination was found last month. The joint is used to rotate the starboard solar arrays of the complex to face the sun. The astronauts also will devote part of the spacewalk to an inspection of a device that tilts the starboard arrays toward the sun. The device, known as a Beta Gimbal Assembly, experienced unrelated electrical problems last weekend.
NASA TV's public channel will begin coverage of spacewalk activities at 4:30 a.m. A briefing will follow the spacewalk, originating from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston, no earlier than 1:30 p.m. Reporters will be able to ask questions from participating NASA sites. The briefing participants are:
-- Mike Suffredini, International Space Station Program manager
-- Ginger Kerrick, International Space Station spacewalk flight director
-- Tomas Gonzalez-Torres, International Space Station spacewalk officer
At 7 a.m. EST, Tuesday, NASA TV's media channel will begin coverage of a fueling test of space shuttle Atlantis at Kennedy's Launch Pad 39A. The fueling test will assist engineering efforts to resolve a problem with an engine cutoff sensor system that prevented Atlantis' launch attempts earlier this month. Reporters will be notified of any plans to hold a news briefing following the test's conclusion.
For NASA TV streaming video, schedules, and downlink information, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/15/2007 12:52 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 14/12/2007 5:34 PM
NASA TV will be covering the tanking test:
NASA TV Coverage Set for Spacewalk, Shuttle Fueling Test
WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- NASA Television will provide simultaneous live coverage of a spacewalk by the International Space Station crew and a shuttle fueling test at NASA's Kennedy Space Center, Fla., on Tuesday, Dec. 18.
Expedition 16 Station Commander Peggy Whitson and Flight Engineer Dan Tani are set to venture outside the station at about 6 a.m. EST to perform a detailed inspection of a giant rotary joint where contamination was found last month. The joint is used to rotate the starboard solar arrays of the complex to face the sun. The astronauts also will devote part of the spacewalk to an inspection of a device that tilts the starboard arrays toward the sun. The device, known as a Beta Gimbal Assembly, experienced unrelated electrical problems last weekend.
NASA TV's public channel will begin coverage of spacewalk activities at 4:30 a.m. A briefing will follow the spacewalk, originating from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston, no earlier than 1:30 p.m. Reporters will be able to ask questions from participating NASA sites. The briefing participants are:
-- Mike Suffredini, International Space Station Program manager
-- Ginger Kerrick, International Space Station spacewalk flight director
-- Tomas Gonzalez-Torres, International Space Station spacewalk officer
At 7 a.m. EST, Tuesday, NASA TV's media channel will begin coverage of a fueling test of space shuttle Atlantis at Kennedy's Launch Pad 39A. The fueling test will assist engineering efforts to resolve a problem with an engine cutoff sensor system that prevented Atlantis' launch attempts earlier this month. Reporters will be notified of any plans to hold a news briefing following the test's conclusion.
For NASA TV streaming video, schedules, and downlink information, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
Can the public watch the media channel?
Post by: DaveS on 12/15/2007 01:09 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 15/12/2007 2:52 PMYes: http://www.nasa.gov/145590main_Digital_Media.asx
Can the public watch the media channel?
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 12/16/2007 07:31 am
Quote
aquarius - 14/12/2007 8:58 AM
When does the January launch window close?
Aside from the beta angle cutout in May, there will be a stand-down period of approximately 15days in the late-March/Early-April timeframe to allow the Russians time to launch the ISS Expedition 17 crew. That launch is currently scheduled for April 8.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2007 10:52 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5310
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 12/16/2007 11:06 am
Thanks for the article Chris.
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/16/2007 01:34 pm
Thanks in advance! :) :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2007 02:05 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 16/12/2007 2:34 PM
Great article Chris!! You mention that tanking begins at 7:00am eastern time Tuesday, however at the end of the article is mentioned that Ed Mango has been instructed to conduct the test later because of people flying down there to view the test. Does that mean tanking will begin later than 7 am?
Thanks in advance! :) :)
Thanks and correct. Currently it's 7am...but then Mr Hale noted the above. We'll see how this stands tonight/Monday as they get back to work (most people were given Sunday off head of the tanking test).
Post by: Mike_1179 on 12/16/2007 02:40 pm
"Work at the pad has proceeded without any hitches, allowing for the scheduled parking of the RSS (Rotating Service Structure) for tanking on Sunday evening, ahead of what is currently a 7am tanking test on Tuesday. "
So will they be filling the tank on Sunday evening or just begin doing the preparation for filling the tank on Sunday evening so they can actually tank on Tuesday morning?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2007 02:52 pm
Quote
Mike_1179 - 16/12/2007 3:40 PM
I'm a bit confused by something in the article:
"Work at the pad has proceeded without any hitches, allowing for the scheduled parking of the RSS (Rotating Service Structure) for tanking on Sunday evening, ahead of what is currently a 7am tanking test on Tuesday. "
So will they be filling the tank on Sunday evening or just begin doing the preparation for filling the tank on Sunday evening so they can actually tank on Tuesday morning?
No, the call to stations/RSS preps are Sunday, tanking is Tuesday. I've moved the sentance around a bit to make that clearer.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2007 07:35 pm
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/16/2007 08:16 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 16/12/2007 2:35 PM
Call to Stations on track for 8:30pm tonight.
So, Chris, does an actual countdown begin tonite, with PRSD loading, etc.? Can you give us a bit of a rundown on events between tonite and Tuesday? Will be much appreciated!! :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2007 08:21 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 16/12/2007 9:16 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 16/12/2007 2:35 PM
Call to Stations on track for 8:30pm tonight.
So, Chris, does an actual countdown begin tonite, with PRSD loading, etc.? Can you give us a bit of a rundown on events between tonite and Tuesday? Will be much appreciated!! :)
SCAPE operations are complete, and we're deep into S0037.
Next events, from L2:
S0037 SUNDAY- 2030 PRESSURIZE GO2/GH2 CC LINES AND RETRACT TRIPLE FLIPS
S0037 Monday- RSS MOVE TO PARK 2130 T-11 BIH AT 1900 (DURATION 6 HOURS)
S0037 Tuesday- T-11 COUNTING AT 0100 /0230 PAD CLEAR /TANKING TO BEGIN 0700
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/16/2007 08:25 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 16/12/2007 3:21 PMThanks so much! Is s0037 PRSD load?Quoteshuttlefan - 16/12/2007 9:16 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 16/12/2007 2:35 PM
Call to Stations on track for 8:30pm tonight.
So, Chris, does an actual countdown begin tonite, with PRSD loading, etc.? Can you give us a bit of a rundown on events between tonite and Tuesday? Will be much appreciated!! :)
SCAPE operations are complete, and we're deep into S0037.
Next events, from L2:
S0037 SUNDAY- 2030 PRESSURIZE GO2/GH2 CC LINES AND RETRACT TRIPLE FLIPS
S0037 Monday- RSS MOVE TO PARK 2130 T-11 BIH AT 1900 (DURATION 6 HOURS)
S0037 Tuesday- T-11 COUNTING AT 0100 /0230 PAD CLEAR /TANKING TO BEGIN 0700
Post by: psloss on 12/16/2007 08:35 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 16/12/2007 4:25 PMTanking test. The activities that Chris posted don't apply to PRSD load.
Thanks so much! Is s0037 PRSD load?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2007 10:11 pm
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/16/2007 11:33 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 11:17 am
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/17/2007 12:38 pm
;)
Post by: mkirk on 12/17/2007 12:52 pm
KSC PAO has the JAVA Shuttle Countdown Clock up for the S0037 Test. I also noticed it was up for TCDT. Too bad they can't incorporate some of the timeline items for you like the ELV Portal does...it wouldn't be that hard to do. Obviously it really wouldn't be necessary for tests like this but it would be cool and useful for S0007.
http://countdown.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/cdt/
Mark Kirkman
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 06:20 pm
NASA will hold a briefing no earlier than 3:30 p.m. CST, on Tuesday, Dec. 18, to discuss the results from a fueling test of the space shuttle Atlantis.
The briefing will originate from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston. Space Shuttle Program Manager Wayne Hale will be the briefer.
The fueling test will be broadcast on NASA Television's media channel starting at 6 a.m. CST Tuesday. The briefing will air on NASA TV's public channel, with questions taken from reporters at participating NASA locations.
For NASA TV streaming video, schedules, and downlink information, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 06:23 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 07:31 pm
We have an article to come, just waiting for the latest to come in for status.
They appear to be fully preparing for a Jan 10 launch, from Dec 17 documentation, by the way :)
Post by: DaveS on 12/17/2007 07:42 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 08:09 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5311
Debut article from new writer Michael Belperio.
Post by: DaveS on 12/17/2007 08:15 pm
Post by: stockman on 12/17/2007 08:24 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 17/12/2007 4:09 PM
Article previewing tanking test:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5311
Debut article from new writer Michael Belperio.
Better watch it Chris.... the article was pretty good... you may not be irreplacable anymore!! :laugh:
Post by: stockman on 12/17/2007 08:25 pm
"If ECO sensor systems, other than the ECO-3 circuit, fail during the tanking test then the flight rationale will be to 'assume ECO sensor system will not properly operate during flight' and to launch with a reduced payload weight 'to further mitigate the probability of requiring the ECO system.'"
Has it been determined what payload would be reduced?? This may have been covered but its the first I have come across it.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 08:56 pm
Quote
stockman - 17/12/2007 9:24 PM
Better watch it Chris.... the article was pretty good... you may not be irreplacable anymore!! :laugh:
Heh....silence ;)
Quote
stockman - 17/12/2007 9:25 PM
Has it been determined what payload would be reduced?? This may have been covered but its the first I have come across it.
Not yet. We're getting all the presentations in (more coming in now) so we'll keep an eye on it.
Post by: ChrisC on 12/17/2007 09:42 pm
Quote
stockman - 17/12/2007 4:25 PM
Has it been determined what payload would be reduced?? This may have been covered but its the first I have come across it.
That's the first we've heard of that idea, I was going to post this too. Put the crew on a diet?
Post by: punkboi on 12/17/2007 09:53 pm
Perhaps NASA will remove one of the external science racks that were suppose to be installed outside Columbus during this flight...and launch it on STS-123? Probably not. :bleh:
Post by: TJL on 12/17/2007 10:11 pm
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/17/2007 10:22 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 10:23 pm
Quote
TJL - 17/12/2007 11:11 PM
Is there any scenario from Tuesdays' tanking test that will put the January 10 launch date on hold?
Things like the ET cracking etc. But on ECO sensor performance, the document we have shows flight rationale (plus associated mitigation) for all eventualities.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/17/2007 11:48 pm
Post by: on 12/18/2007 12:38 am
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 12/18/2007 01:39 am
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/18/2007 02:15 am
Post by: on 12/18/2007 02:22 am
Quote
punkboi - 17/12/2007 9:17 PMQuoteshuttlefan - 17/12/2007 7:15 PM So is it just LH2 being loaded tomorrow or will both LH2 and LOX be loaded?Just the LH2, I believe...since it's the LH2 sensors that are being problematic
Both the LOX and the LH2 will be loaded tomorrow according to the front page articl here
Post by: MB123 on 12/18/2007 04:59 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:43 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 09:59 am
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 12/18/2007 10:30 am
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/18/2007 10:31 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 10:32 am
Quote
haywoodfloyd - 18/12/2007 11:30 AM
Will the tanking test be carried on NASA TV and, if so, which channel will it be on?
Yep and apparently the media channel will switch to tanking coverage:
http://www.nasa.gov/145590main_Digital_Media.asx
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 12/18/2007 10:33 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 6:32 AMQuotehaywoodfloyd - 18/12/2007 11:30 AM
Will the tanking test be carried on NASA TV and, if so, which channel will it be on?
Yep and apparently the media channel will switch to tanking coverage:
http://www.nasa.gov/145590main_Digital_Media.asx
Thanks Chris. I'm watching the EVA right now.
I was wondering if they were going to switch.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 10:42 am
If NASA TV mess up, fear not, I know people ;)
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 10:45 am
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 10:51 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 10:56 am
Quote
psloss - 18/12/2007 11:51 AM
Guess not; Media Channel just switched...
Bit of a dodgy feed. Probably because of the millions of tanking fans putting a strain on the stream ;)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:02 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:04 am
Still not recieved go for tanking.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:14 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:19 am
Post by: DaveS on 12/18/2007 11:20 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 1:19 PMReason for the delay was some troubleshooting of a Solid State Recorder config for tanking.
Ok, Go for tanking.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:29 am
Chilldown still ongoing for LOX.
Post by: makims on 12/18/2007 11:29 am
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/18/2007 11:32 am
Are the JSC flight controllers also on console for today's tanking test to assist Launch Control in gathering data?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:34 am
Quote
shuttlefan - 18/12/2007 12:32 PM
Are the JSC flight controllers also on console for today's tanking test to assist Launch Control in gathering data?
KSC LCC Consoles are primary, with support from other centers, such as MAF etc. Remember, JSC are primary after launch.
Post by: makims on 12/18/2007 11:45 am
Post by: DaveS on 12/18/2007 11:49 am
Quote
makims - 18/12/2007 1:45 PMShortly after the ECO sensors go "WET".
When they enter into fast fill for LH2?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 11:49 am
Now we start the drumroll for the SIM test.
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/18/2007 11:59 am
And if they go down that far will the access arm and the beanie cap be retracted?
Post by: Ford Mustang on 12/18/2007 12:08 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:08 pm
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/18/2007 12:10 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:11 pm
All as planned by going DRY on command. No failures yet!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:14 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:14 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:17 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:17 pm
Quote
psloss - 18/12/2007 1:14 PM
George Diller says that LH2 ECO circuits #2 and #3 are "setting up to fail"...interesting, since I believe the #2 circuit was the only one that hadn't "failed" in the first two tankings.
Yep. This is a new one with LH2 ECO #2.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:19 pm
LH2 2 and 3 are ok at the moment.
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:22 pm
Post by: Martin FL on 12/18/2007 12:22 pm
Quote
psloss - 18/12/2007 7:22 AM
George Diller reporting the same thing...says that the LH2 console hasn't made that official call yet...says the #2 circuit has been intermittent...
Chris is getting the info faster than Diller.
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:23 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:23 pm
Quote
Martin FL - 18/12/2007 8:22 AMThat's nominal. :)
Chris is getting the info faster than Diller.
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:24 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:28 pm
Post by: avollhar on 12/18/2007 12:29 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:30 pm
Quote
psloss - 18/12/2007 1:28 PM
As noted, the open circuit failure is what they wanted for doing the troubleshooting after stable replenish. And perhaps the intermittent behavior on other circuits, if it remains that way, will provide some additional contrast...
I'm repeating you :) but ironically, this is probably the perfect scenario. One hard fail and two intermittent issues to carry out tests on :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:33 pm
Post by: dotdk on 12/18/2007 12:36 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 17/12/2007 2:33 PM
I say this is good, but going on the flight rationale document, this is heading into the "offload some payload" area.
As long as that payload isn't Columbus it will be ok ;)
Unless they can actually find the problem and fix it.
Post by: DaveS on 12/18/2007 12:36 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 2:33 PMNot if they find the fault and it's fixeable out at the pad. Then they're efforst is going to focused on fixing the problem once and for all!
I say this is good, but going on the flight rationale document, this is heading into the "offload some payload" area.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:39 pm
Quote
DaveS - 18/12/2007 1:36 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 18/12/2007 2:33 PMNot if they find the fault and it's fixeable out at the pad. Then they're efforst is going to focused on fixing the problem once and for all!
I say this is good, but going on the flight rationale document, this is heading into the "offload some payload" area.
Kinda going on the "New Failure (sensor other than #3 fails) During Tanking Test" with TDR positive and negative Flight Rationale. Both have payload offload.
However, both rationale notes required "All other sensor circuits function during tanking test." - and we're in a grey area with #2 and #3 right now.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 12:44 pm
"STS-122 Flight Rationale: Assume ECO sensor system will not properly operate
during flight. Launch in plane to mitigate the probability of requiring the ECO
system. Off load payload to further mitigate the probability of requiring the ECO
system. Use the voltage measurement flight rule to mitigate the outcome of requiring
the ECO system when it is not working. Leave ECO system operational during flight
since it may provide some protection and failed dry failures have not been
experienced."
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 12:49 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 8:44 AMI would agree, but I'm also open to the possibility that there may be more to come out of this test and that it may affect how they go forward, short and long term.
I'm thinking we're closest to this right now....but I'm open to other translations:
Post by: Donna Spaceships on 12/18/2007 01:09 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 01:11 pm
Quote
Donna Spaceships - 18/12/2007 2:09 PM
Didn't I read that they've never even used these sensors for turning off the engines before? What would happen if they didn't work and the engines weren't turned off? Wouldn't they stop anyway when the run out of propellant?
Never used before on LH2, yes. They got to within 1.5 seconds on one flight I believe.
The risk is the engines running out of LH2. If that happened, it would be loss of vehicle and crew in a rather nasty scenario of fire/explosion/over spinning turbines ripping up the vehicle etc.
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 01:12 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 01:31 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 01:33 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 01:36 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 01:50 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:02 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:03 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:11 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:15 pm
Edit: estimate is 45-60 minutes back on the timeline.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 02:16 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:21 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:36 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/18/2007 02:38 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 02:49 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 02:53 pm
"*Bing* Menswear" ;)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:00 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:08 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:09 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:13 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:17 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:21 pm
Quote
pad rat - 18/12/2007 4:17 PM
With all eyes on the ECO sensor troubleshooting, has anyone seen/commented on this little gem?
http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/121707kvueshuttlewings-mm.27bc4fe1.html
Seems the AA batteries that drive the transmitter for the leading edge impact sensors are dead and can't be replaced without rollback. Brilliant piece of systems engineering, that. So now, no doubt, SSP will craft some feel-good rationale for flying without the sensors.
Old news.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5299
And they have good rationale.
Post by: triddirt on 12/18/2007 03:21 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 11:17 AM"Keeps Freezing" No pun intended I'm sure :cool:
TDR Engineer's laptop keeps freezing, I've noticed. Has had to reboot it twice already.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:29 pm
Quote
triddirt - 18/12/2007 4:21 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 18/12/2007 11:17 AM"Keeps Freezing" No pun intended I'm sure :cool:
TDR Engineer's laptop keeps freezing, I've noticed. Has had to reboot it twice already.
I'm available for children's parties and office functions. Plenty more cryo related puns in my back pocket ;)
TDR checks on sensor 1 and 2. Any body lanuage readers on here (I am not being serious!)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:31 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:34 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:41 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 03:52 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:00 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:13 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:14 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:24 pm
This - at this stage - would confirm the engineering thought process on this prior to the tanking test:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5309
This could get interesting, as extensive MSFC testing, gained via presentation slides on L2 yesterday, showed they could not find a problem with the connector during lab testing.
Post by: on 12/18/2007 04:28 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:36 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 18/12/2007 5:28 PM
If this is the root cause, will they try to fix or go ahead and fly?
Good question. MMT will decide that....
Go for detanking (when inspection team is clear).
Post by: jeklund on 12/18/2007 04:37 pm
Post by: dember on 12/18/2007 04:42 pm
Post by: Flightstar on 12/18/2007 04:43 pm
Quote
dember - 18/12/2007 11:42 AM
Could there be a rollback? I know Doug Lyons said that they could do the same stuff in the VAB that can be done out at the pad.
If they R&R it. Replacing the connector does not mean you solve the problem.
Post by: Launch Fan on 12/18/2007 04:48 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 11:24 AM
L2 sources note initial TDR data point to the problem being with the LH2 Feedthrough Connector.
This - at this stage - would confirm the engineering thought process on this prior to the tanking test:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5309
This could get interesting, as extensive MSFC testing, gained via presentation slides on L2 yesterday, showed they could not find a problem with the connector during lab testing.
Good work! Whoever thought up these TDR troubleshoot should be having his back patted right now.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:49 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:50 pm
Post by: Real Madrid on 12/18/2007 04:55 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:57 pm
Quote
Real Madrid - 18/12/2007 5:55 PM
Could they Launch Atlantis on 14th of January or could they delay the launch again.
Eh? Who mentioned the 14th? The current target is Jan 10. The rest of your question is a moot point as we won't know anything on the plan until the MMT has decided.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 04:58 pm
Pending collecting more data on LH2 ECO #3 via TDR.
Post by: Real Madrid on 12/18/2007 05:00 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 6:57 PMQuoteReal Madrid - 18/12/2007 5:55 PM
Could they Launch Atlantis on 14th of January or could they delay the launch again.
Eh? Who mentioned the 14th? The current target is Jan 10. The rest of your question is a moot point as we won't know anything on the plan until the MMT has decided.
Sorry I am confused with the roll-out of space the shuttle Endeavour on 14 January .
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 05:02 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 05:04 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 05:09 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 05:22 pm
Post by: kimmern123 on 12/18/2007 06:01 pm
Post by: DaveS on 12/18/2007 06:02 pm
Quote
kimmern123 - 18/12/2007 8:01 PMYes. NET 4:30 pm EST with Wayne Hale from JSC.
Will there be a press briefing after the test is completed?
Post by: daveglo on 12/18/2007 06:29 pm
But, as the rational says, at this point, just dump payload. Any word yet on what gets dropped from the manifest?
Post by: daj24 on 12/18/2007 06:32 pm
Post by: Norm Hartnett on 12/18/2007 07:03 pm
They already pulled payload to make room for the Drive Lock Assembly Im not sure they want to pull more.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 07:08 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 07:09 pm
Quote
Norm Hartnett - 18/12/2007 8:03 PM
My two cents says that they are going to rollback to the VAB and deal with the battery problem and the ECO problems together.
There is no requirement for the WLE IDS batteries to be replaced. See earlier in the thread for the article we ran a few weeks back on this having flight rationale.
Looking likely that feedthrough connector will be R&Red at the pad (main area of conversation right now).
Post by: eeergo on 12/18/2007 07:12 pm
Quote
Norm Hartnett - 18/12/2007 9:03 PM My two cents says that they are going to rollback to the VAB and deal with the battery problem and the ECO problems together. They already pulled payload to make room for the Drive Lock Assembly I’m not sure they want to pull more.
Did they? I thought this mission had positive margins (and Columbus added to that when it proved to weigh less than expected) and the DLA was added without impact. I say that admitting I don't remember if I saw (or failed to see) any document proving otherwise.
In any case, pulling payload is never good... but neither is postponing the launch further!
Post by: on 12/18/2007 07:21 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 2:08 PM R&R timeline shows five to six days at the pad to replace the feedthrough connector. Keeps Jan 10 doable.
If they R&R at the pad, will the flight rationale still be in place for the 10th?
Post by: dsmillman on 12/18/2007 07:28 pm
February 5, Tuesday
8 a.m. - STS-123 B-Roll Video and Animation - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
9 a.m. - STS-123 Program Overview Briefing - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
10:30 a.m. - STS-123 Mission Overview Briefing - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
12:30 p.m. - STS-123 EVA Overview Briefing - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
2 p.m. - STS-123 Crew News Conference - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
This suggests that the Feb. 14 STS-123 launch date is being slipped and perhaps the STS-122 launch date is being slipped.
Post by: bodge on 12/18/2007 07:43 pm
The DLA had a negative impact to the middeck manifest. Keep in mind, it's not just weight, but it's also a matter of volume (hardware + foam + bag).
Post by: Peter NASA on 12/18/2007 07:46 pm
Quote
dsmillman - 18/12/2007 2:28 PM
According to the latest NASA TV schedule the STS-123 pre-flight briefings have slipped from Jan. 18 to:
This suggests that the Feb. 14 STS-123 launch date is being slipped and perhaps the STS-122 launch date is being slipped.
The NASA TV schedule does not pre-empt the ongoing MMT meeting! That is totally seperate entities, so please be very careful not to jump to conclusions based on such low key information.
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:27 pm
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:31 pm
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:32 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:32 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:33 pm
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:35 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:37 pm
Reccomendations for forward work still being discussed.
"We're going to take this in a very systematic way".
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:38 pm
No launch date decision today. Still NET Jan 10.
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:38 pm
"Part of the problem may be an installation problem"
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:43 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:52 pm
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:53 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 08:54 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 18/12/2007 9:53 PM
Lots of speculation questions being asked
And Hale is close to losing his patience! Though smiling at the same time.
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:58 pm
Post by: on 12/18/2007 08:59 pm
Post by: Rob in KC on 12/18/2007 09:03 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 11:24 AM
L2 sources note initial TDR data point to the problem being with the LH2 Feedthrough Connector.
This - at this stage - would confirm the engineering thought process on this prior to the tanking test:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5309
Check the time Chris posted this.
Other sites now just starting to publish the same thing over four hours later.
This is why this site is the best and L2 is where you are on the frontline, as there's mbs of presentation and images on there days ago!
I love this site.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 09:16 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/18/2007 10:51 pm
Info and presentations arriving into L2, with lots of options.
All appear to point at R&R, all allow for Jan 10 launch date. Will collate and write up tomorrow when it's all in.
Post by: Joffan on 12/18/2007 11:08 pm
Post by: rdale on 12/18/2007 11:11 pm
Quote
Joffan - 18/12/2007 7:08 PM
So that's R&R at the pad?
Quote
Chris Bergin - 18/12/2007 3:08 PM
R&R timeline shows five to six days at the pad to replace the feedthrough connector. Keeps Jan 10 doable.
Post by: ichilton on 12/19/2007 06:18 am
What's R&R?
Thanks
Ian
Post by: faustod on 12/19/2007 06:31 am
Post by: rdale on 12/19/2007 07:39 am
Quote
ichilton - 19/12/2007 2:18 AM
Hi,
What's R&R?
To help with abbreviations - click the "acronyms" link above...
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 10:53 am
Three allow for Jan 10 launch - possibly option 4 too.
The rest range to delaying to to around mid Feb.
PRCB to decide on which forward plan to take (so around 24/48 hours until we know for sure). We cover PRCB extensively on L2, so: Two articles, one on the options, one on which they take to come this week.
Post by: apollo13 on 12/19/2007 11:34 am
I just woke up right now...
Let's hope we launch on schedule...
Post by: DaveS on 12/19/2007 11:38 am
Quote
apollo13 - 19/12/2007 1:34 PMRead the latest story: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/
Was the tanking test nominal?
I just woke up right now...
Let's hope we launch on schedule...
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 12:50 pm
Participant
Wayne Hale Manager, SSP
Opening
Today did a tanking test with special instrumentation to look at the wiring on the liquid hydrogen low level fuel circuits I was quite worried that everything would work perfectly and wed be unable to find where the problem lies, but fortunately we had some problems
-- saw three separate problems there are five sensors, four at one level and one slightly higher today we had problems on three of the sensors and captured the data, which indicates we have a problem at the feed-through open circuits are occurring at the very cold temperatures
We had ECO sensors 2 and 3 fail open circuits very briefly, for two to four seconds each then sensor 2 remained find for the rest of the test, and sensor 3 had problems again when we started to drain the test sensor 1 indicated an open circuit and stayed that way until well after the tank was dry all three have returned to working now
-- some of the data is still being collected theyre looking at the recorded voltages, the TDR information, literally gigabytes of information the preliminary indication, though, is that we have a problem at this connector
-- weve seen all five of the sensors misbehave now in one way or another, and the pass-through connector is the only thing they have common
-- the plan tomorrow is to come in and talk to program management in a formal way with recommendations for forward work there are a number of options they may recommend, but were going to do this very systematically
"We probably owe an apology to the folks that make the sensors. Today the sensors themselves were exonerated. This is clearly a problem with the wiring upstream as it comes out of the tank."
-- I dont know how this will affect the launch date yet we need to get to the bottom of this, fix it and fly safely through the rest of the program.
Q&A
Q: How old is this equipment? Might that be a factor? And what is the availability of replacement hardware?
weve been very concerned about aging the equipment is less than 10 years old, which is young by shuttle standards, but we have a team looking at that
-- everything on the shuttle is custom made I dont have a timeline on replacing it, but there are certain things we might be able to do to make the connection more robust and it could be an installation problem we could be pulling a vacuum with the cold temperatures and pulling on the connections
-- weve got more work to do before we can tell you exactly whats at the bottom of the problem and what we need to do, but manufacturing of these parts can be turned around in very short order
Q: What do you mean by an open circuit? Its a place where youre not getting a contact?
yes in some of these circuits weve lost conductivity for brief periods of time and sometimes for longer periods and it happens when its at these very low temperatures, so we know it has something to do with temperature
-- and an open circuit is just like it works in your light bulb if the circuits not closed, it wont light up
Q: is this outside or inside the tank?
by the nature of it, it goes through the tank thats why we call it a pass-through connector, part of it is inside and part of it is outside
-- it would take a week to 10 days to get to the part outside for a change out the part inside would mean you have to go inside the tank through the man hole, and that would take longer
-- exactly what we have to do and where we need to do it is work ahead, but Im just pleased as punch to know that we can narrow it down to this area
Q: How big is the connector?
if you think about a big electrical plug like you might see in industrial lighting or the lights you might have in a television studio there are three major parts: the sockets on the inside, the sockets on the outside and the pass through part which is a metal, glass and pin arrangement
Q: Can you make this repair at the pad? And is this a new phenomenon or is this what caused the earlier problems?
I dont know the answer to either of those
Q: Do you think another cryo test will be required at some point? Or will your launch attempt work for a fueling test? And are you still optimistic of getting to your three out of four criteria for launch?
weve stood down for the near-term tanking, which wed planned if wed had a problem not related to the ECO sensors whether we think about this for 48 hours and want to come back and do another test is work ahead of us there are cryogenic tests going on as we speak, though, at Marshall and Kennedy, and theyll continue
-- I suspect part of the way to get to the bottom of this is take apart what we have on the vehicle, take a close look at it and decide how to go forward
Q: Is there a way to fix it without a tanking test?
yes, its possible, hypothetically what I need for the team to do is go home and think about it well come back tomorrow and talk about options, then there will be more tests in the future
"Id like to fly as soon as possible, but above that we need to fix this problem."
-- we wont be driven by a particular launch date, but by the data
-- the good thing is that we know exactly what we need to work on now this is a problem thats solvable I dont know how long it will take, but Im confident that the team can now come up with a good solution
Q: Are the parts installed at KSC or in New Orleans?
in New Orleans but let me hasten to say that we dont know that there was anything wrong with how it was installed weve tried to improve the way we install these, and perhaps in that process we somehow made it worse we need to do the investigative work to find out what caused these problems
Q: Was there anything in the data that would influence the rationale for wanting four of four for launch or three of four?
thats putting the cart before the horse we need to fix the problem, and then depending on how good we feel about that fix, well address what the launch criteria should be you might want to require more to work than you really need if you dont feel very confident in the fix if you do feel confident, you might be willing to go back to the old requirement of three of four
Q: Is it practical to think this problem can be fixed in time for a launch of Jan. 10?
the program has been asked to assemble the space station wed like to do that as quickly as we can, so long as its safe well follow this trail where it leads it and well fix it and then well go fly
"Im not worried about that. What we need to do is take it one step at a time."
Q: Did the time-domain reflectometer pulse generator help you determine the source of the problem?
Im not the technical expert, but my understanding is it sends a small electrical pulse down the line and based on when the reflection comes back, it tells you where the resistance in the line changes based on the time, it knows how far down the wire you have your open circuit
-- unfortunately the resolution is not good enough to tell you whether its in the inside or outside part of the connector
Q: Are these pieces made in lots?
the ET is the only part of the shuttle that we dont get back every other part, we tear down and examine every streak and smudge, which contributes to safety so all youve got is the data that came down the telemetry stream and the pictures you get back, so you have to make a lot of inferences
"So weve probably been chasing some rabbit trails. Now we have a different way of looking inside this tank, electrically, and now we have some more information thats been very helpful."
Post by: triddirt on 12/19/2007 02:25 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 19/12/2007 8:50 AMThanks Chris... This was very helpful as John's site is still down and some folks couldn't catch it live
Transcript from yesterday's presser:
Post by: mwfair on 12/19/2007 02:56 pm
One question I would like to see posted: What were the original requirements for the feed-through connector with regard to cryogenic environment and cycling, and what are the features in the design that meet these requirements? For example, is there a preload required in the sockets, both for room temp and for cryo? Surely there aren't wipers or springs in the pins, but I would think the designers included some feature to deal with thermal contraction of the pins, and also the possibility for the air trapped inside to freeze? Are there o-rings or wipers or silicone on each pin, or are they bonded to the glass? Are they installed in a vacuum or does air just sit down inside all the time? I've tried to find a drawing, but can't.
Rainer has a great post on the ECO system at http://spacelaunch.gerhards.net/2007/12/space-shuttle-eco-sonsors-in-depth-view.html but admits that he couldn't find drawings of the connectors.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 03:21 pm
Quote
mwfair - 19/12/2007 3:56 PM
....but admits that he couldn't find drawings of the connectors.
Images of the connectors are in the articles:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5309
A full set of hi res images are in L2.
Post by: mwfair on 12/19/2007 03:49 pm
Still, I'd like to know what the original designers thought of this possibility at the time.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 04:04 pm
Quote
mwfair - 19/12/2007 4:49 PM
BTW, could you make the picture captions searchable?
Yeah, I'll see if I can add key words into the body of the article that would make such a search easier. Good call! For the interim, Searching LH2 and Connector in the news site search box should bring up all articles we've done on it (and thus the images associated).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 06:03 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5312
There's more to come and will write up as much as possible from L2 as we go.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 08:00 pm
Post by: Stowbridge on 12/19/2007 08:08 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 19/12/2007 1:03 PM
Eight options to fix the connector issue being evaluated by NASA. Three allow for Jan 10, five do not.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5312
There's more to come and will write up as much as possible from L2 as we go.
Chris, what is that graph in the article?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 08:12 pm
Quote
Stowbridge - 19/12/2007 9:08 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 19/12/2007 1:03 PM
Eight options to fix the connector issue being evaluated by NASA. Three allow for Jan 10, five do not.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5312
There's more to come and will write up as much as possible from L2 as we go.
Chris, what is that graph in the article?
A screenshot from the TDR Results presentation on L2. Here's a full size version of one of the screenshots:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 08:14 pm
Post by: shuttle_buff on 12/19/2007 09:35 pm
But all those options required roll back. Why would they be opening up the ET man hole cover if they did not intend to replace the internal connector unless the connector is secured from the inside and not the outside?
Post by: on 12/19/2007 09:53 pm
Quote
shuttle_buff - 19/12/2007 4:35 PM This appears to be option 6, 7 or 8? But all those options required roll back. Why would they be opening up the ET man hole cover if they did not intend to replace the internal connector unless the connector is secured from the inside and not the outside?
Let's not start making assumptions on here. Let the engineers and managers make the right decision. They will make the decision that is right for the program.
Post by: ETEE on 12/19/2007 10:09 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 10:20 pm
Quote
shuttle_buff - 19/12/2007 10:35 PM
This appears to be option 6, 7 or 8?
But all those options required roll back. Why would they be opening up the ET man hole cover if they did not intend to replace the internal connector unless the connector is secured from the inside and not the outside?
We still have PRCB content coming in from today's meeting on L2. Then we'll try and round up some answers here and another article will follow tomorrow.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/19/2007 10:21 pm
Quote
ETEE - 19/12/2007 11:09 PM
For those of us not on L2, can someone explain where this manhole is exactly. Is it an entry into the LH2 tank or the ET outer shell?
You don't need L2 for that ;)
You can see the manhole foamed up (but still obvious) on ET images of the aft, but here's a good one from the ECO work when they R&R'ed the sensors:
Post by: MKremer on 12/19/2007 10:25 pm
Quote
ETEE - 19/12/2007 5:09 PM
For those of us not on L2, can someone explain where this manhole is exactly. Is it an entry into the LH2 tank or the ET outer shell?
Go to the KSC Multimedia site and search for "external tank manhole". That will bring up all the pics from when ET-119 had to be entered to replace the ECO sensors.
Post by: a_langwich on 12/20/2007 12:03 am
What about injecting a nice gel into the connector? If cryopumping is involved, displacing air with something else that will freeze and thus lock the pins in place seems useful.
The gel/grease I had in mind is the stuff used in Mil Std electrical boxes to reduce fire hazard, but of course it would depend on the thermal coefficient of expansion for that material vs the other material in the connector.
If they go with the soldering option, I suppose you could skip gel/grease and epoxy the whole thing.
It's interesting the problem goes away after the tank warms back up, most connection problems don't. On the other hand, it would have been fixed years ago if it were so cooperative.
Post by: Jorge on 12/20/2007 12:20 am
Quote
ETEE - 19/12/2007 5:09 PM
For those of us not on L2, can someone explain where this manhole is exactly. Is it an entry into the LH2 tank or the ET outer shell?
What exactly do you mean by "outer shell"?
Post by: chas on 12/20/2007 01:32 am
Luck?
Post by: Avron on 12/20/2007 04:54 am
Quote
a_langwich - 19/12/2007 8:03 PM
A thought about the current ECO-tension...
What about injecting a nice gel into the connector? If cryopumping is involved, displacing air with something else that will freeze and thus lock the pins in place seems useful.
Great plan .. I like.. but how do you make sure you have
1) filled all voids
2) Not added a contaminant to reduce pin/socket connection
Post by: rdale on 12/20/2007 09:34 am
Quote
chas - 19/12/2007 9:32 PM
Great info on the troubleshooting of the ECO's. Any clues to why STS 120 didn't have any issues?
Luck?
The same reason previous flights came up with no issues - it is an intermittent issue...
Post by: montmein69 on 12/20/2007 11:16 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 19/12/2007 3:00 PM
Work to remove the foam for ET access (manhole) to begin this weekend.
They have to use a clean access to open and go inside the tank. It was never done on the pad, wasn't it ?
Neither the spray of new foam ?
Any other way than a rollback in the VAB to make all that stuff ?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/20/2007 11:39 am
Quote
montmein69 - 20/12/2007 12:16 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 19/12/2007 3:00 PM
Work to remove the foam for ET access (manhole) to begin this weekend.
They have to use a clean access to open and go inside the tank. It was never done on the pad, wasn't it ?
Neither the spray of new foam ?
Any other way than a rollback in the VAB to make all that stuff ?
What they are doing with the manhole can be done at the pad. I believe they've even changed ECO sensors out at the pad before years ago....but we await their final plan before we'll know if it involves rollback. Currently, it does not.
Post by: ETEE on 12/20/2007 11:39 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 19/12/2007 11:21 PMQuoteETEE - 19/12/2007 11:09 PM
For those of us not on L2, can someone explain where this manhole is exactly. Is it an entry into the LH2 tank or the ET outer shell?
You don't need L2 for that ;)
You can see the manhole foamed up (but still obvious) on ET images of the aft, but here's a good one from the ECO work when they R&R'ed the sensors:
Thanks for the heads up! It looks like there must also be a LO2 manhole as well.
Post by: Jim on 12/20/2007 12:20 pm
Quote
ETEE - 19/12/2007 6:09 PM
For those of us not on L2, can someone explain where this manhole is exactly. Is it an entry into the LH2 tank or the ET outer shell?
There is no "outer shell" of the ET, the tanks are structural members. Two tanks are connected together by the intertank. The tanks are not enclosed
Post by: Jim on 12/20/2007 12:20 pm
Quote
ETEE - 20/12/2007 7:39 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 19/12/2007 11:21 PMQuoteETEE - 19/12/2007 11:09 PM
For those of us not on L2, can someone explain where this manhole is exactly. Is it an entry into the LH2 tank or the ET outer shell?
You don't need L2 for that ;)
You can see the manhole foamed up (but still obvious) on ET images of the aft, but here's a good one from the ECO work when they R&R'ed the sensors:
Thanks for the heads up! It looks like there must also be a LO2 manhole as well.
One must enter the intertank to get to the LO2 manhole
Post by: kevin-rf on 12/20/2007 12:40 pm
Quote
Avron - 20/12/2007 12:54 AMQuotea_langwich - 19/12/2007 8:03 PM
A thought about the current ECO-tension...
What about injecting a nice gel into the connector? If cryopumping is involved, displacing air with something else that will freeze and thus lock the pins in place seems useful.
Great plan .. I like.. but how do you make sure you have
1) filled all voids
2) Not added a contaminant to reduce pin/socket connection
What about purging the connector with He to prevent cryo pumping if that is the issue?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/20/2007 01:08 pm
Quote
kevin-rf - 20/12/2007 1:40 PM
What about purging the connector with He to prevent cryo pumping if that is the issue?
Heh! That was noted last night as an option, but will be thrown out due to problems with such a process. You get points for referencing it though!
Post by: montmein69 on 12/20/2007 02:03 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 20/12/2007 6:39 AM
What they are doing with the manhole can be done at the pad. .
I had a look at the photos when they had to repair on ET 119 (STS 121) as it was suggested in a previous post
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm
(and a search with ET manhole)
The manhole is at the lower end of the ET (the spheric part).
And when on the pad, below there is the flame trench. Not easy to access.
Did they have built some scaffolding to access and remove the foam ?
Maybe the foam was only removed in the area around the ET connector ?
Post by: Jim on 12/20/2007 02:09 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/20/2007 02:58 pm
Quote
montmein69 - 20/12/2007 3:03 PM
The manhole is at the lower end of the ET (the spheric part).
And when on the pad, below there is the flame trench. Not easy to access.
Did they have built some scaffolding to access and remove the foam ?
Yep, they are building platforms and an enclosure today.
Post by: DaveS on 12/20/2007 03:08 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 20/12/2007 4:58 PMAnd MAF is OK with this? Back in 2006 they rejected KSC's proposal on performing the ET-118 R&R completely in the vertical due to not having a certified way of refoaming the LH2 manhole cover in the vertical.Quotemontmein69 - 20/12/2007 3:03 PM
The manhole is at the lower end of the ET (the spheric part).
And when on the pad, below there is the flame trench. Not easy to access.
Did they have built some scaffolding to access and remove the foam ?
Yep, they are building platforms and an enclosure today.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/20/2007 03:15 pm
Quote
DaveS - 20/12/2007 4:08 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 20/12/2007 4:58 PMAnd MAF is OK with this? Back in 2006 they rejected KSC's proposal on performing the ET-118 R&R completely in the vertical due to not having a certified way of refoaming the LH2 manhole cover in the vertical.Quotemontmein69 - 20/12/2007 3:03 PM
The manhole is at the lower end of the ET (the spheric part).
And when on the pad, below there is the flame trench. Not easy to access.
Did they have built some scaffolding to access and remove the foam ?
Yep, they are building platforms and an enclosure today.
Yeah, remember that also Dave. They've not made any comments to say they aren't happy about it.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/20/2007 06:55 pm
Post by: uko on 12/20/2007 09:02 pm
I understand no specific repair option was chosen today?
Post by: uko on 12/20/2007 09:09 pm
I'm a little confused now.. I understand they will be removing foam from the feedthrough connector on the outside of the ET.. which seems logical. But I dont think they will be removing foam from the manhole when at the pad.
Post by: Joffan on 12/20/2007 11:45 pm
Post by: Lee Jay on 12/21/2007 12:00 am
Quote
uko - 20/12/2007 3:02 PM
Can you please explain what is "fuel bias"?
Making the probability of running out of LOX different than the probability of running out of LH2 (LOX higher, LH2 lower, in this case).
There's a possibility that I don't truly understand this, but I'm sure someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. There's one heck of a presentation on this on L2 right now. It's a beauty, and written in terms most people could understand.
Post by: cabbage on 12/21/2007 09:30 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/21/2007 11:49 am
Quote
Lee Jay - 21/12/2007 1:00 AMQuoteuko - 20/12/2007 3:02 PM
Can you please explain what is "fuel bias"?
Making the probability of running out of LOX different than the probability of running out of LH2 (LOX higher, LH2 lower, in this case).
There's a possibility that I don't truly understand this, but I'm sure someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. There's one heck of a presentation on this on L2 right now. It's a beauty, and written in terms most people could understand.
Thanks Lee, I missed the question....and I will be looking at writing up those presentations up at some point, as they are fascinating.
Going to round up the ET evaluations as of where things stand today, first.
Post by: psloss on 12/21/2007 12:47 pm
Quote
Lee Jay - 20/12/2007 8:00 PMWithout saying much more, I would note that one of the presentations on L2 notes that fuel bias is not intended to ensure a LOX low-level cut.Quoteuko - 20/12/2007 3:02 PM
Can you please explain what is "fuel bias"?
Making the probability of running out of LOX different than the probability of running out of LH2 (LOX higher, LH2 lower, in this case).
There's a possibility that I don't truly understand this, but I'm sure someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. There's one heck of a presentation on this on L2 right now. It's a beauty, and written in terms most people could understand.
Post by: Mike_1179 on 12/21/2007 01:16 pm
Quote
cabbage - 21/12/2007 5:30 AM
The reason is that the extremely hot components of the SSME would catch fire catastrophically if exposed to pure LOX, but would not be seriously affected by pure LH2.
Running out of LOX is no better than running out of fuel however.
If you run out of oxygen, the turbopumps that feed the engine will cavitate. Imagine that these pumps are spinning at some amazing speed, IIRC ~36,000 RPM, while pumping relatively light hydrogen and relatively dense LOX. If you run out of LOX, you'll lose the resistance of the LOX being pushed through the turbopump and they'll speed up to the point where they'll fly apart and destroy the aft end of the orbiter. Still a LOC condition.
I suppose the rationale is they have more confidence in the LOX LLCO system (it functioned on STS-93) so they bias towards fuel and if there is a problem with the LOX flow rate then those portions of the ECO sensor system will work.
Post by: montmein69 on 12/21/2007 01:25 pm
Quote
uko - 20/12/2007 4:09 PM
I'm a little confused now.. I understand they will be removing foam from the feedthrough connector on the outside of the ET.. which seems logical. But I dont think they will be removing foam from the manhole when at the pad.
I had the same mind .
(Copyright - edit)
But maybe they prepared the platform and the enclosure to begin the removing of the foam around the manhole without any delay when the team will order to do so (if necessary).
Post by: psloss on 12/21/2007 01:27 pm
Quote
Mike_1179 - 21/12/2007 9:16 AMNot sure how it factors into the rationale, but yes the LOX level sensor system has not had the type of issues that the LH2 system has. (The LOX low-level cutoff system also triggered MECO on 51-F and 78.)
I suppose the rationale is they have more confidence in the LOX LLCO system (it functioned on STS-93)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/21/2007 01:29 pm
The full plan is still not ready as they are still working the data. What appears certain is the connector is going to be removed, and sent to MSFC for testing.
The problem is they still aren't absolutely sure it's the connector now, as "Harness failures near feed through connector are still possible until ruled out." A lot of work is continuing on root cause and specific location (though it's associated with the connector at least).
I'll update as we go...as we've got big updates coming in daily on this.
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/21/2007 02:51 pm
Quote
psloss - 21/12/2007 8:27 AMQuoteMike_1179 - 21/12/2007 9:16 AMNot sure how it factors into the rationale, but yes the LOX level sensor system has not had the type of issues that the LH2 system has. (The LOX low-level cutoff system also triggered MECO on 51-F and 78.)
I suppose the rationale is they have more confidence in the LOX LLCO system (it functioned on STS-93)
STS-78? I wasn't aware of that. Obviously the cutoff must have been only a second or less early, because nothing was said about it at the time, but can you shed more light on it? Thanks in advance!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/21/2007 03:12 pm
Taken from about five presentations, includes image of the location they will be removing the foam from and a clip of one of the 20 or something images of connector testing (fascinating).
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5314
Post by: GLS on 12/21/2007 04:15 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 21/12/2007 3:51 PMQuotepsloss - 21/12/2007 8:27 AMQuoteMike_1179 - 21/12/2007 9:16 AMNot sure how it factors into the rationale, but yes the LOX level sensor system has not had the type of issues that the LH2 system has. (The LOX low-level cutoff system also triggered MECO on 51-F and 78.)
I suppose the rationale is they have more confidence in the LOX LLCO system (it functioned on STS-93)
STS-78? I wasn't aware of that. Obviously the cutoff must have been only a second or less early, because nothing was said about it at the time, but can you shed more light on it? Thanks in advance!
According to an earlier article, STS 78 was almost running out of LH2... it didn't....
Post by: nathan.moeller on 12/21/2007 05:07 pm
Quote
GLS - 21/12/2007 11:15 AMQuoteshuttlefan - 21/12/2007 3:51 PMQuotepsloss - 21/12/2007 8:27 AMQuoteMike_1179 - 21/12/2007 9:16 AMNot sure how it factors into the rationale, but yes the LOX level sensor system has not had the type of issues that the LH2 system has. (The LOX low-level cutoff system also triggered MECO on 51-F and 78.)
I suppose the rationale is they have more confidence in the LOX LLCO system (it functioned on STS-93)
STS-78? I wasn't aware of that. Obviously the cutoff must have been only a second or less early, because nothing was said about it at the time, but can you shed more light on it? Thanks in advance!
According to an earlier article, STS 78 was almost running out of LH2... it didn't....
They've had three LOX low-level cutoffs in the history of the program, but zero LH2 low-level cutoffs.
Post by: Jason Davies on 12/21/2007 05:19 pm
Quote
nathan.moeller - 21/12/2007 12:07 PMQuoteGLS - 21/12/2007 11:15 AMQuoteshuttlefan - 21/12/2007 3:51 PMQuotepsloss - 21/12/2007 8:27 AMQuoteMike_1179 - 21/12/2007 9:16 AMNot sure how it factors into the rationale, but yes the LOX level sensor system has not had the type of issues that the LH2 system has. (The LOX low-level cutoff system also triggered MECO on 51-F and 78.)
I suppose the rationale is they have more confidence in the LOX LLCO system (it functioned on STS-93)
STS-78? I wasn't aware of that. Obviously the cutoff must have been only a second or less early, because nothing was said about it at the time, but can you shed more light on it? Thanks in advance!
According to an earlier article, STS 78 was almost running out of LH2... it didn't....
They've had three LOX low-level cutoffs in the history of the program, but zero LH2 low-level cutoffs.
Time to link the video of the STS-93 event!
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11065&start=271
Post by: Flightstar on 12/21/2007 07:31 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 21/12/2007 6:49 AMQuoteLee Jay - 21/12/2007 1:00 AMQuoteuko - 20/12/2007 3:02 PM
Can you please explain what is "fuel bias"?
Making the probability of running out of LOX different than the probability of running out of LH2 (LOX higher, LH2 lower, in this case).
There's a possibility that I don't truly understand this, but I'm sure someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. There's one heck of a presentation on this on L2 right now. It's a beauty, and written in terms most people could understand.
Thanks Lee, I missed the question....and I will be looking at writing up those presentations up at some point, as they are fascinating.
Going to round up the ET evaluations as of where things stand today, first.
You should write it up. Norm Knight has achieved a great overview of the dilemma involved.
Post by: psloss on 12/21/2007 07:38 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Post by: stockman on 12/21/2007 07:41 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/21/2007 07:45 pm
Quote
psloss - 21/12/2007 8:38 PM
A few shots of some of the initial foam removal work on the Kennedy Media Gallery:
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
That second image is worthy of a caption competition :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/21/2007 09:22 pm
Quote
Flightstar - 21/12/2007 8:31 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 21/12/2007 6:49 AMQuoteLee Jay - 21/12/2007 1:00 AMQuoteuko - 20/12/2007 3:02 PM
Can you please explain what is "fuel bias"?
Making the probability of running out of LOX different than the probability of running out of LH2 (LOX higher, LH2 lower, in this case).
There's a possibility that I don't truly understand this, but I'm sure someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong. There's one heck of a presentation on this on L2 right now. It's a beauty, and written in terms most people could understand.
Thanks Lee, I missed the question....and I will be looking at writing up those presentations up at some point, as they are fascinating.
Going to round up the ET evaluations as of where things stand today, first.
You should write it up. Norm Knight has achieved a great overview of the dilemma involved.
I will.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/21/2007 10:59 pm
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html
Now, as he's written, and the same for us, a plan has not been decided on. However, there's an interesting insight that one can only get from a one-on-one interview, and that's Mr Hale's apparent preference to soldering the pins (thus keeping them in place, stopping the open circuit - in theory, as cryopumping is possibly affecting the connection of the pins in the socket/connector).
Looking at the L2 presentation on associated timelines with associated repair options, soldering the external plug places the estimated repair timeline as NET Jan. 25. Soldering both external and internal plugs puts the repair timeline at NET Feb. 15.
Post by: Lee Jay on 12/21/2007 11:38 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 21/12/2007 4:59 PM
Bill Harwood's bagged an interview with Wayne Hale.
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html
Now, as he's written, and the same for us, a plan has not been decided on. However, there's an interesting insight that one can only get from a one-on-one interview, and that's Mr Hale's apparent preference to soldering the pins (thus keeping them in place, stopping the open circuit - in theory, as cryopumping is possibly affecting the connection of the pins in the socket/connector).
Looking at the L2 presentation on associated timelines with associated repair options, soldering the external plug places the estimated repair timeline as NET Jan. 25. Soldering both external and internal plugs puts the repair timeline at NET Feb. 15.
Are these pins/sockets much different than standard mil-spec pin/socket quick disconnect connectors? They look about the same.
If they are the same, I'd have a very hard time imaging the cryo temps or cryo pumping separating the wire from the pin/socket crimp. That's a very effective crimp that comes from four directions (usually) and plastically deforms both the pin/socket and the wire. I don't see how soldering the wires into the pins/sockets would help much.
On the other hand the pin/socket connection is very weak by comparison to keep insertion forces low. I could completely imagine that contact separating from cryo temperatures and/or cryo pumping.
Post by: SimonShuttle on 12/22/2007 11:21 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 21/12/2007 5:59 PM
Bill Harwood's bagged an interview with Wayne Hale.
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/current.html
Now, as he's written, and the same for us, a plan has not been decided on. However, there's an interesting insight that one can only get from a one-on-one interview, and that's Mr Hale's apparent preference to soldering the pins (thus keeping them in place, stopping the open circuit - in theory, as cryopumping is possibly affecting the connection of the pins in the socket/connector).
Looking at the L2 presentation on associated timelines with associated repair options, soldering the external plug places the estimated repair timeline as NET Jan. 25. Soldering both external and internal plugs puts the repair timeline at NET Feb. 15.
Yeah, just been looking at the soldering options on the repair timeline doc. Looks like it'll push everything one flight to the right, with STS-122 going into STS-123's window. Not sure how that is a "quick fix"?
Post by: psloss on 12/22/2007 12:15 pm
Quote
SimonShuttle - 22/12/2007 7:21 AMNit: there is no "window" for 1J/A; middle February was likely where the schedules had it falling on the calendar.
Yeah, just been looking at the soldering options on the repair timeline doc. Looks like it'll push everything one flight to the right, with STS-122 going into STS-123's window. Not sure how that is a "quick fix"?
They have an opportunity to launch every day, with some programmatic constraints. There's a cutout for the Increment 16/17 rotation in the middle of April and there's a cutout for beta angle in the middle of May. And actually the "cutout" for a ISS expedition crew rotation with the Soyuz is about the same duration as beta angle cutouts. (Given the fluidity of the schedules right now, I wouldn't be surprised if the ATV launch has to be "deconflicted" with something again.)
There's also the issue with one of the BGAs on S4 that the ISS program may want to do before 1E:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=61&start=556#M226326
The "window" in December was more of a "window of opportunity" to fly 1E/STS-122 before New Year's than a launch window. That "opened" almost as soon as the STS-122 hardware and GSE could support the first launch attempt and "closed" when the current beta angle cutout started -- which coincides with other programmatic-type "end of year" constraints.
Post by: SimonShuttle on 12/22/2007 12:48 pm
Quote
psloss - 22/12/2007 7:15 AMQuoteSimonShuttle - 22/12/2007 7:21 AMNit: there is no "window" for 1J/A; middle February was likely where the schedules had it falling on the calendar.
Yeah, just been looking at the soldering options on the repair timeline doc. Looks like it'll push everything one flight to the right, with STS-122 going into STS-123's window. Not sure how that is a "quick fix"?
Copy that :)
What's the best way of speaking of a launch date range? Such as, the new STS-122 date, whatever that will be, would not be called the opening of the window, given what you said?
Post by: psloss on 12/22/2007 01:24 pm
Quote
SimonShuttle - 22/12/2007 8:48 AMI'm just nitpicking. :bleh: I don't see ranges because the constraint periods are much shorter than the "non-constraint" periods. I'm sure they plan to avoid cutouts as much as is reasonable, but to me looking from the outside, long-term planning seems to diminish in relevance given the current uncertainty.
Copy that :)
What's the best way of speaking of a launch date range? Such as, the new STS-122 date, whatever that will be, would not be called the opening of the window, given what you said?
Post by: TJL on 12/22/2007 04:17 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Thank you.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/22/2007 04:25 pm
Quote
TJL - 22/12/2007 5:17 PM
Anyone else here having problems opening the KSC media link...
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Thank you.
It's down.
Post by: ItsyAndy on 12/23/2007 03:24 am
Quote
TJL - 22/12/2007 6:17 PM
Anyone else here having problems opening the KSC media link...
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Thank you.
I've been unable to open ksc.nasa.gov for all this month, just like other people I know from Europe and north America. The problem is on their side and looks like a filtering or routing issue. I wrote to them long ago with no results so far.
Post by: rgerhards on 12/23/2007 10:09 am
Thanks,
Rainer
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 12/23/2007 10:53 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 22/12/2007 5:25 PMQuoteTJL - 22/12/2007 5:17 PM
Anyone else here having problems opening the KSC media link...
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Thank you.
It's down.
I'm NEVER able to connect to it! :(
Post by: STSFan10 on 12/23/2007 03:19 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/23/2007 03:29 pm
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/23/2007 03:56 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 23/12/2007 10:29 AM
Progressing, they have another problem, but I'm writing up a three orbiter processing article and will have it done in a few hours.
Chris I hope I'm not being a pain but could you briefly say what the problem is. It would be much appreciated. Thanks!! :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/23/2007 05:29 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 23/12/2007 4:56 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 23/12/2007 10:29 AM
Progressing, they have another problem, but I'm writing up a three orbiter processing article and will have it done in a few hours.
Chris I hope I'm not being a pain but could you briefly say what the problem is. It would be much appreciated. Thanks!! :)
Lots of L2 notes on this.
"Right aft radiator retract hose didnt retract back into box......Safety folks involved and are concerned of possible crack in hose that may cause Freon leak."
They are looking at risk vs flight rationale. Doesn't sounds all that great, but we'll see what they do about it. Been holding back on reporting it until we have some status/context.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/23/2007 09:37 pm
I'll write it up.
Post by: ItsyAndy on 12/24/2007 01:15 am
Quote
rgerhards - 23/12/2007 12:09 PM
For me, the media gallery started to be defunct yesterday. I analyzed the problem from systems both in north America and Europe (I am a network guy). As it looks, they have an invalidly configured router which sends packets in loops. Maybe there is someone over here knowing whom to write to?
Thanks,
Rainer
For those who now have or always had problems reaching ksc.nasa.gov there is a topic open here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11264
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/24/2007 02:00 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5316 - some of the highlights of L2 processing documentation over the last couple of days.
Post by: Justin Space on 12/24/2007 12:25 pm
Post by: on 12/24/2007 05:47 pm
Post by: svenge on 12/24/2007 06:20 pm
/slight exaggeration, but seeing how many problems have come up lately, one never knows...
Post by: Rob in KC on 12/24/2007 07:02 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 24/12/2007 12:47 PM
What do yall think the PRCB will decide on the 27th? Does Jan. 10 still look possible?
Pointless to guess.
Post by: on 12/24/2007 07:02 pm
Quote
svenge - 24/12/2007 1:20 PM January 10 of which year, Justin? /slight exaggeration, but seeing how many problems have come up lately, one never knows...
2008
Post by: punkboi on 12/24/2007 07:58 pm
He was just being sarcastic, Justin :bleh:
Quote
ItsyAndy - 23/12/2007 6:15 PMQuotergerhards - 23/12/2007 12:09 PM For me, the media gallery started to be defunct yesterday. I analyzed the problem from systems both in north America and Europe (I am a network guy). As it looks, they have an invalidly configured router which sends packets in loops. Maybe there is someone over here knowing whom to write to? Thanks, RainerFor those who now have or always had problems reaching ksc.nasa.gov there is a topic open here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11264
Video feed is still down, but the media gallery is up
Post by: trlstyle on 12/25/2007 04:02 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/25/2007 06:16 pm
Quote
trlstyle - 25/12/2007 5:02 AM
Merry Christmas everyone! A special thanks to "Chris" because i read his every post in these threads. Enjoy the time off!
Thanks very much, same to you :)
Post by: Launch Fan on 12/26/2007 02:56 pm
Post by: Jason Davies on 12/27/2007 02:41 am
Quote
Launch Fan - 26/12/2007 9:56 AM
As Chris wrote, we might not get a new launch date tomorrow, but it's going to be a big increase in news following the last two days!
Big day tomorrow! :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 02:30 pm
Looks like - on first info - they are trying to protect a Jan launch date (end of the month). Two options, with the second option involving rollback, but all - so far - is leaning towards option one, which is to repair at the pad for the second half of the month.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 04:05 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5319
Post by: shuttlefan on 12/27/2007 04:29 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 27/12/2007 11:05 AM
SE&I, NESC, KSC and JSC engineers all want rollback and a tank swap.
So then it's QUITE safe to say that will be the scenario, unless they're overrulled by the 'suits'. :frown:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 04:42 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 27/12/2007 5:29 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 27/12/2007 11:05 AM
SE&I, NESC, KSC and JSC engineers all want rollback and a tank swap.
So then it's QUITE safe to say that will be the scenario, unless they're overrulled by the 'suits'. :frown:
Hard to say, as the likes of SE&I, NESC and JSC Engineering are the usual suspects in "being different" but KSC "Engineers" and JSC "Engineers" - thus we could be talking about many depts. makes this a bit more solid.
I doubt anything will be decided today as they are speaking about coming back to this on Jan 3.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 05:29 pm
TPS removed, access to external connector - done.
Remove external plug and connector, send off to MSFC for testing.
See what comes back on the test results, compare with tanking test and ET-120's connector (which was tested).
PRCB on Jan 3 to decide on which option to take (R&R at the pad, or Rollback and swap tanks).
Post by: montmein69 on 12/27/2007 05:51 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 27/12/2007 12:29 PM
The way it's looking right now (can change).
TPS removed, access to external connector - done.
Remove external plug and connector, send off to MSFC for testing.
Is the internal part of the wiring and of the connector definitely considered to be in good condition ?
Post by: sam2007 on 12/27/2007 06:13 pm
Post by: rdale on 12/27/2007 06:24 pm
Quote
sam2007 - 27/12/2007 2:13 PM
Here we go again: analysis - paralysis
In America we're going through a holiday time, so by default that slows things down... I wouldn't call deciding in a few days to be "paralysis"
Post by: rgerhards on 12/27/2007 07:08 pm
Rainer
Post by: MKremer on 12/27/2007 07:20 pm
Quote
montmein69 - 27/12/2007 12:51 PM
Is the internal part of the wiring and of the connector definitely considered to be in good condition ?
That'll be inspected (and documented) as soon as the pass-through is ready to be removed.
Reading all the documentation involved, IMO if they want to preclude the internal-to-passthrough pin connections from being a problem, they're going to have to 'go the extra mile' to ensure the pin connections with the internal connector have no "contaminations" at all (physical, or gasses remaining that could freeze at LH2 temps) during the connection and sealing of the internal connector with the new pass-through. And without internal tank access, that's an additional big challenge to be assured and confident of no failures during cryo temps from fueling until MECO.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 07:26 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 07:54 pm
Post by: on 12/27/2007 08:10 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/27/2007 09:16 pm
As of right now we're looking at the Option A to allow for work to be completed late Jan, which would work towards an early Feb launch. However, they have beaten schedules before, so one to keep an eye on.
Option B (rollback) which shuttle managers don't seem to like, doesn't have a timeline yet.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5319 - modified from earlier with extra info. Not the greatest article, just wanted to get some raw quote content from presentations out there. Next one will be more mapped out.
Post by: psloss on 12/27/2007 09:29 pm
Quote
sam2007 - 27/12/2007 2:13 PMOutsider impatience.
Here we go again: analysis - paralysis
Post by: Davie OPF on 12/28/2007 12:26 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 27/12/2007 4:16 PM
Ok, what we'll do is leave the modified article on site, as that's your basic Option A/Option B overview, but I'll write another based on the presentations that came in later that expanded on the work required and schedules etc....plus this is ongoing, so we'll keep the coverage up and see where they go with this.
As of right now we're looking at the Option A to allow for work to be completed late Jan, which would work towards an early Feb launch. However, they have beaten schedules before, so one to keep an eye on.
Option B (rollback) which shuttle managers don't seem to like, doesn't have a timeline yet.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5319 - modified from earlier with extra info. Not the greatest article, just wanted to get some raw quote content from presentations out there. Next one will be more mapped out.
Good work Chris, more impressed with you getting the PRCB presentations on L2 just as the PRCB sat down!
Post by: Real Madrid on 12/28/2007 03:08 pm
Can the NASA postpone the launch STS-123 by again postponing the launch of STS-122 ,Can the NASA then as first STS-123 launch and then STS-122?
Post by: nathan.moeller on 12/28/2007 03:14 pm
Quote
Real Madrid - 28/12/2007 10:08 AM
I have a Question
Can the NASA postpone the launch STS-123 by again postponing the launch of STS-122 ,Can the NASA then as first STS-123 launch and then STS-122?
My understanding is that you're wondering whether or not they can launch STS-123 while they're trying to solve the problems of STS-122. At this point, I suppose it could be possible, but I don't think it's an option they're actively looking at.
Post by: ChrisC on 12/28/2007 04:12 pm
Post by: KSC Engineer on 12/28/2007 07:05 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/28/2007 10:14 pm
Ok, we're up to date. Next event is the external connector coming out of ET-125 at the pad Saturday, ahead of being shipped off to MSFC.
Looking at writing an article around that to keep with the timeline.
Post by: ShuttleFan75 on 12/29/2007 12:42 am
Post by: C5C6 on 12/29/2007 12:56 am
Quote
Real Madrid - 28/12/2007 12:08 PMI was about to ask that, what could be the problems on doing this?
I have a Question
Can the NASA postpone the launch STS-123 by again postponing the launch of STS-122 ,Can the NASA then as first STS-123 launch and then STS-122?
Post by: Ducati94 on 12/29/2007 01:30 am
Post by: Se Elmeri on 12/29/2007 10:29 am
Post by: SimonShuttle on 12/29/2007 11:13 am
Quote
Se Elmeri - 29/12/2007 5:29 AM
What is the point in swapping tanks, then?
They think it might be a one off, that the connector in ET-125 was bad workmanship. (per L2 documentation if Chris hasn't written that yet).
Post by: Ducati94 on 12/29/2007 11:43 am
Post by: Zachstar on 12/29/2007 05:06 pm
Of course delays are expected. Weather acts stupid, Fuel cell burps, Cables break, etc... However this delay has pushed things back atleast a full launch to launch time.
Just how many more of these major setbacks can they stand before they have to start cutting back on hardware or supplies to ISS in order to get this done by 2010?
NASA has shown an amazing ability to adapt when it comes to shuttle issues. It is of my opinion that if a rollback is needed they ought to be able to fully destack and get the shuttle back to the hangar for ANY needed inspection or restart work. In the meantime simply fly the next mission instead. Now this is only if they really have a good idea what is causing this mess.
I think it is a good idea anyway to see if we are able to skip around later if needed.
I know I will get jumped on for this. It is just my concern that the shuttle sits out there for so long.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/29/2007 06:51 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5320
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 12/29/2007 07:04 pm
Post by: Jorge on 12/29/2007 07:30 pm
Quote
Zachstar - 29/12/2007 12:06 PM
Let me ask a question here based on what I have seen lately.
Of course delays are expected. Weather acts stupid, Fuel cell burps, Cables break, etc... However this delay has pushed things back atleast a full launch to launch time.
Just how many more of these major setbacks can they stand before they have to start cutting back on hardware or supplies to ISS in order to get this done by 2010?
More than many people think. The manifest has, on average, about three week's worth of margin for each flight. In general, that means a three-month slip will cascade to the launch dates of the next four flights, but no further. The effect of the 122 slip may extend further than that, but this year is a bit of an anomaly due to 125/HST requiring two stacks. The average margin is expected to increase after 125 if/when Atlantis is extended through 2010.
Quote
NASA has shown an amazing ability to adapt when it comes to shuttle issues. It is of my opinion that if a rollback is needed they ought to be able to fully destack and get the shuttle back to the hangar for ANY needed inspection or restart work. In the meantime simply fly the next mission instead. Now this is only if they really have a good idea what is causing this mess.
That is necessary but not sufficient. NASA must not only have a good idea what is causing the problem with the current launch. They must also have a good idea whether it is a "generic" issue or not. Otherwise there is a good chance the next flight will have the same problem and stacking it would just be a waste of time.
The ISS assembly sequence does not have a whole lot of room for swapping flights around. There are many "get-ahead" tasks on each flight that prepare for the next one so swapping the order at the last minute means re-training the crews. You can pretty much forget changing the order of 122-123-124 for this reason. The 123 crew is having enough trouble right now coping with the additions to their flight due to the 120 EVA schedule being so radically rearranged. Throwing the unperformed 122 get-ahead tasks onto 123 may be too much to ask. It can be done, and has been done, but NASA will not do it without good reason. Note that the major swaps that have occurred (such as the delay to 119) were done before the crew was even named.
Quote
I know I will get jumped on for this. It is just my concern that the shuttle sits out there for so long.
It is not my intention to jump on you, but much of my explanation has already been discussed by others in this thread. It is my hope that seeing all the reasons laid out in one post will make you understand. (If not, THEN you will get jumped on... :) )
Post by: Andy L on 12/29/2007 07:53 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 29/12/2007 1:51 PM
As promised, an expanded article on status, from L2 information (and this is only a bit of it), going on now as they've just got the connector out at the pad:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5320
Great article Chris.
You wrote "Option A's plan will also see ET-126's R&R process completed by February 2, providing plenty of time for mating with Endeavour in time for LON (Launch on Need) requirements. Ultimately impacting the launch schedule by only a matter of around a month in total, should everything go to plan."
So you're not being negative about the slip, like some other sites are? Hard to be postive, if you don't mind me saying so.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/29/2007 08:00 pm
Quote
Andy L - 29/12/2007 8:53 PM
So you're not being negative about the slip, like some other sites are? Hard to be postive, if you don't mind me saying so.
I don't mind you saying...but remember, they very nearly didn't even get a shot at the December window in the first place, and it's hardly the biggest slip they've suffered since RTF, so there's no point being all doom and gloom over this.
Sure, they would rather have done without the ECO system issue, but think about it from Hale's perspective, one which he believes the system may have been unreliable in the first place. So this issue allows them a big engineering overview of the full system. Hardly something to be negative about.
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 12/29/2007 08:06 pm
Post by: Jim on 12/29/2007 10:17 pm
Quote
Zachstar - 29/12/2007 1:06 PM
It is of my opinion that if a rollback is needed they ought to be able to fully destack and get the shuttle back to the hangar for ANY needed inspection or restart work.
I know I will get jumped on for this. It is just my concern that the shuttle sits out there for so long.
Not needed. There is no issue with the shuttle sitting at the pad. STS-1 spent many months out there and with less weather protection
Post by: Gekko0481 on 12/30/2007 12:18 pm
Quote
Jim - 29/12/2007 10:17 PM
Not needed. There is no issue with the shuttle sitting at the pad.
Well, lets not forget a certain freak weather event that happened last time Atlantis was on pad ;-)
Post by: John2375 on 12/30/2007 01:19 pm
To me, I'm sorry but it seems to STUPID to have such a firm end-date. I'm not saying to add 5 flights/year until Ares flies, (I think that'd be stupid too since the fleet is obviously aging and they couldn't do that), however it seems reasonable to fly the remaining scheduled flights and if that takes you to August 2010, great.. if it takes until February 2011, fine.
just my 2c :)
Post by: brihath on 12/30/2007 01:34 pm
Post by: Jim on 12/30/2007 02:04 pm
Quote
brihath - 30/12/2007 9:34 AM
The September 2010 date was designed around the premise that the ISS would attain core complete status, and is in effect a planning date for the budget and facilities modification for Constellation. Like any plan it can be subject to change based upon the situation.
Yes, it could change. To an earlier date or the last two missions could be canceled. It is a hard date. There are few spares left and there is the issue of fleet recertification
Post by: KSC Engineer on 12/30/2007 02:23 pm
Post by: psloss on 12/30/2007 02:56 pm
Quote
KSC Engineer - 30/12/2007 10:23 AM(This site is sure going to need a "2010" forum before long.)
I hear you Jim but the reality of the shuttle not flying past 2010 just does not make sense to me considering there no other flight options for some time. I know we had a gap between Apollo and Shuttle but nothing like the gap here. Money and time can buy a few more flights so I would be shocked if things don't get extended a bit.
I agree -- that's "all" it is, money...except that "more money" is what is required to shorten the gap. And NASA rarely gets "more money," especially on a multi-year basis. (In fact, the last two budget years, it got less money -- including at least temporary dismissal of a $1B supplemental to cover post-Katrina costs.)
Discussed in several threads, but this one very recently:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11084&posts=309&start=1
Post by: on 12/30/2007 05:14 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/30/2007 05:49 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 30/12/2007 6:14 PM
When should the first results from testing of the connector come in from MSFC?
Within a week, but we know they like to give long estimates (so as not to breach them) so could be within days. We got the ET-120 Connector results the same day on L2, so as soon as we get them for ET-125...will be an article.
Speaking of which, it's absolutely stunning what they put the hardware through. Nano XRay etc. The images of the testing showed the connector in better detail that you'd sometimes see on a human :o
I'll share one of the many from L2 here:
Post by: psloss on 12/30/2007 06:00 pm
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 12/30/2007 10:22 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 29/12/2007 1:51 PM
As promised, an expanded article on status, from L2 information (and this is only a bit of it), going on now as they've just got the connector out at the pad:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5320
Great article Chris, I enjoyed reading that and seeing how complex this all is.
Post by: Jorge on 12/31/2007 02:08 am
Quote
Jim - 30/12/2007 9:04 AMQuotebrihath - 30/12/2007 9:34 AM
The September 2010 date was designed around the premise that the ISS would attain core complete status, and is in effect a planning date for the budget and facilities modification for Constellation. Like any plan it can be subject to change based upon the situation.
Yes, it could change. To an earlier date or the last two missions could be canceled. It is a hard date. There are few spares left and there is the issue of fleet recertification
Recertification should be a non-issue. In 2003, the CAIB recommended recertification because they wanted to place a roadblock in front of NASA's plans to fly the shuttle to 2020 and beyond. The choice of 2010 for the recertification date was completely arbitrary. It was a nice round number between 2003 and 2020 that (under the RTF schedules at the time) allowed ISS assembly to be completed without undue schedule pressure, and it was the only number the CAIB could come to consensus on. There was absolutely no shuttle-related technical rationale for 2010 versus any other date the CAIB could have chosen. For that matter, they did not specify fiscal year versus calendar year 2010. Allowing the last flight to slip past the end of FY2010 does not violate the letter of CAIB R9.2-1 as long as it flies before the end of CY2010. I would argue that the spirit of CAIB R9.2-1 would not be violated even if it slips to early CY2011. The intent of the recommendation, as I've said, was to throw up a roadblock and force a decision on shuttle retirement/replacement, and that intent has been met.
In turn, the Bush administration chose 2010 as the shuttle retirement date to avoid the expense of recertification. It is a hard date only because it is the policy of the current administration and NASA administrator. Neither will be in office at the end of FY2010 so their opinions will no longer matter.
Spares are a non-issue because the issue under discussion is not adding new flights to the manifest, but allowing the last flights to slip beyond the end of FY2010. The fleet spares will get older and over time they will gradually exceed their cert limits, but they will not all magically "expire" at the end of FY2010.
The only reason to cancel the last shuttle flight if it slips a bit past the end of FY2010 is budgetary. NASA wants to free up shuttle funding for Constellation and it is easiest to do that at a fiscal year boundary. But no one should pretend it's a safety issue, a spares issue, a recertification issue, or any other kind of issue.
Post by: ChrisC on 12/31/2007 02:36 am
The quality of my experience as a space fan has improved dramatically in the past year, and it's virtually all due to this site. And I don't even subscribe to L2 :) Thanks.
Post by: Seattle Dave on 12/31/2007 04:10 am
Quote
ChrisC - 30/12/2007 9:36 PM
I don't usually cheer much, but I have to join in ... nice article Chris. It really made things a lot clearer for me.
The quality of my experience as a space fan has improved dramatically in the past year, and it's virtually all due to this site. And I don't even subscribe to L2 :) Thanks.
You should, nothing comes close to the experience of being on L2 for a space flight fan. It's a 1000 times better than advertised.
Post by: Analyst on 12/31/2007 08:11 am
Quote
Jorge - 31/12/2007 4:08 AM
The only reason to cancel the last shuttle flight if it slips a bit past the end of FY2010 is budgetary. NASA wants to free up shuttle funding for Constellation and it is easiest to do that at a fiscal year boundary. But no one should pretend it's a safety issue, a spares issue, a recertification issue, or any other kind of issue.
Very good and correct summary!
Analyst
Post by: Andy L on 12/31/2007 03:33 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 29/12/2007 3:00 PMQuoteAndy L - 29/12/2007 8:53 PM
So you're not being negative about the slip, like some other sites are? Hard to be postive, if you don't mind me saying so.
I don't mind you saying...but remember, they very nearly didn't even get a shot at the December window in the first place, and it's hardly the biggest slip they've suffered since RTF, so there's no point being all doom and gloom over this.
Sure, they would rather have done without the ECO system issue, but think about it from Hale's perspective, one which he believes the system may have been unreliable in the first place. So this issue allows them a big engineering overview of the full system. Hardly something to be negative about.
Thanks for the response Chris, feel a lot better about that now!
Really is interesting to follow the troubleshooting and nearly 50,000 reads of this thread for the post tanking test shows I'm not alone!
Post by: ChrisC on 12/31/2007 03:42 pm
Quote
Seattle Dave - 30/12/2007 12:10 AMI don't subscribe to L2 because if I did I would never get anything else done with my life. I'd go in and never come back out ...
You should, nothing comes close to the experience of being on L2 for a space flight fan.
Quote
It's a 1000 times better than advertised.""Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, and I can say without hyperbole that this is a million times worse than all of them put together."
-- Kent Brockman
Post by: on 12/31/2007 06:21 pm
Pictures of the external connector removal from the tank on the Kennedy Media Gallery now
Post by: Beerbaron on 01/01/2008 01:21 am
If so how do they get good connections to the inner wires when they fit the new external connector. My own experience is that wires joined/spliced tend to be less reliable than a single piece wire, or is there enough slack in the inner cable to solder directly to the new external connector?
Post by: rgerhards on 01/01/2008 10:54 am
... however, I am now puzzled. As of my understanding, only the external part of the feedthrough connector has been removed, because the internal part "requires tank access". But when I now look at the above-mentioned media gallery link, it not only mentions "feedthrough assembly", the pictures also seem to show both external and internal parts. I've magnified a part from KSC-07PD-3660 (below).
I would deeply appreciate if somebody could clarify.
Thanks,
Rainer
Post by: rgerhards on 01/01/2008 12:10 pm
http://spacelaunch.gerhards.net/2008/01/shuttle-feedthrough-connector-removal.html
I just somehow have the feeling that the 5th image (the one with the xray equipment) is out of sequence.
Am I right with that? Also, on that image, in the lower part, left beneath the tape roll - is that an ECO sensing element? From the pictures I have seen so far, it look pretty close to one.
As always, any feedback is deeply appreciated.
Rainer
Post by: Martin FL on 01/01/2008 01:27 pm
Quote
rgerhards - 1/1/2008 5:54 AM
The new media gallery images are indeed excellent and very helpful.
... however, I am now puzzled. As of my understanding, only the external part of the feedthrough connector has been removed, because the internal part "requires tank access". But when I now look at the above-mentioned media gallery link, it not only mentions "feedthrough assembly", the pictures also seem to show both external and internal parts. I've magnified a part from KSC-07PD-3660 (below).
I would deeply appreciate if somebody could clarify.
Thanks,
Rainer
Yeah, that's internal, though it goes further inside.
Post by: Martin FL on 01/01/2008 01:33 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4
Post by: Martin FL on 01/01/2008 01:34 pm
Post by: Martin FL on 01/01/2008 01:34 pm
Post by: Martin FL on 01/01/2008 01:35 pm
Post by: Martin FL on 01/01/2008 01:36 pm
Post by: rgerhards on 01/01/2008 01:59 pm
are these really in order? Feed5 seems out of the order to me (I asked that question before your post, but think it is a good time to re-iterate).
Rainer
Post by: overby on 01/01/2008 03:41 pm
Quote
rgerhards - 1/1/2008 8:59 AM
are these really in order? Feed5 seems out of the order to me (I asked that question before your post, but think it is a good time to re-iterate).
He posted them in the same order they were on the NASA web site, but I believe they are correct.
The 'Feed5' picture is of them setting up a portable X Ray machine to get an image of the inside-the-tank connector on the feedthru, before disconnecting it (from the feedtrhu). Subsequent pictures are of the feedthru in the bulkhead and the external connector.
Glen Overby
Post by: rgerhards on 01/01/2008 04:55 pm
Rainer
Post by: James (Lockheed) on 01/01/2008 05:50 pm
Quote
rgerhards - 1/1/2008 8:59 AM
Martin,
are these really in order? Feed5 seems out of the order to me (I asked that question before your post, but think it is a good time to re-iterate).
Rainer
The order looks correct.
Post by: KSC Engineer on 01/01/2008 10:55 pm
Post by: Super George on 01/01/2008 11:32 pm
Quote
KSC Engineer - 1/1/2008 5:55 PM
This is a great thread and shows how complex space travel really is. I wish the general public would spend ten minutes on this thread and they would see things totally different. Chris, you do a great job.
I'm one of those who never post much, but follow the news articles here and the threads, and given only about 50 people have posted in this thread, but 50,000 have viewed it, some general public do get to read it, but yes, I know what you mean :)
Post by: Martin FL on 01/02/2008 01:18 pm
Quote
KSC Engineer - 1/1/2008 5:55 PM
This is a great thread and shows how complex space travel really is. I wish the general public would spend ten minutes on this thread and they would see things totally different. Chris, you do a great job.
Well said :)
Post by: on 01/02/2008 03:11 pm
Post by: ApolloLee on 01/02/2008 03:21 pm
With STS-122's launch date in flux, is it possible to simply move STS-123, with to our knowledge a clean tank, ahead of 122?
I wouldn't think Kibo and Dextre need Columbus to operate...
Post by: Gary on 01/02/2008 03:34 pm
Quote
ApolloLee - 2/1/2008 4:21 PM
(Probably also for the 123 thread)
With STS-122's launch date in flux, is it possible to simply move STS-123, with to our knowledge a clean tank, ahead of 122?
I wouldn't think Kibo and Dextre need Columbus to operate...
Answered many times - without knowing the exact cause of the current tank problems how can anyone be sure STS-123's tank is good? NASA could pay out to prep 123 for launch only to have the same problems.
Post by: Jorge on 01/02/2008 03:35 pm
Quote
ApolloLee - 2/1/2008 10:21 AM
(Probably also for the 123 thread)
With STS-122's launch date in flux, is it possible to simply move STS-123, with to our knowledge a clean tank, ahead of 122?
I wouldn't think Kibo and Dextre need Columbus to operate...
Already answered, two pages back in this thread. 123's tank is not "to our knowledge a clean tank". More like "to our limited knowledge not an unclean tank". Big difference.
Post by: DaveS on 01/02/2008 04:59 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 2/1/2008 5:11 PMNo. The launch date won't be known for several weeks due to the tests done at MSFC on ET-125's external feedthrough connector.
Is there a meeting tomorrow to decide on a launch date?
Then a new external feedthrough connector must be installed on ET-125 one that has it's connectors soldered and the qualfication for that one post-installation won't be done until the late this month.
So look for a launch date around early to mid February.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/02/2008 05:14 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 2/1/2008 4:11 PM
Is there a meeting tomorrow to decide on a launch date?
What Dave said.
Tomorrow is another PRCB (as per usual for Thursdays - though they have various types of PRCBs and JPRCBs all the time, but Thursdays are the big ones).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/02/2008 06:48 pm
NASA Announces Teleconference About Next Shuttle Mission
NASA will host a media teleconference with Space Shuttle Program Manager Wayne Hale at 4 p.m. CST, Thursday, Jan. 3, to discuss the status of ongoing work to prepare shuttle Atlantis for its launch to the International Space Station.
To participate in the teleconference, reporters must R.S.V.P. by 3 p.m. Thursday to NASA's Johnson Space Center newsroom at 281-483-5111. Live audio of the event will be streamed online at:
http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio
By the way, they will be activating the heaters on the shuttle due to cold weather.
Post by: ChrisC on 01/02/2008 08:09 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/02/2008 08:47 pm
Quote
ChrisC - 2/1/2008 10:09 PMIt's always RealAudio.
Does anyone know what format of live audio will be available at that link? If it's only RealAudio I won't be able to listen :(
Post by: uko on 01/03/2008 08:53 am
Quote
DaveS - 2/1/2008 3:47 PMQuoteChrisC - 2/1/2008 10:09 PMIt's always RealAudio.
Does anyone know what format of live audio will be available at that link? If it's only RealAudio I won't be able to listen :(
But replay of the conference will probably be on http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org
Usually in some windows media format.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/03/2008 12:16 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 01:04 pm
And we'll be following the PRCB live.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5322
Post by: rdale on 01/03/2008 03:41 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 04:33 pm
Updating the article on site as we go, via L2 where the presentations will go on live.
Post by: John44 on 01/03/2008 04:58 pm
Quote
uko - 3/1/2008 3:53 AMQuoteDaveS - 2/1/2008 3:47 PMQuoteChrisC - 2/1/2008 10:09 PMIt's always RealAudio.
Does anyone know what format of live audio will be available at that link? If it's only RealAudio I won't be able to listen :(
But replay of the conference will probably be on http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org
Usually in some windows media format.
Yes, I upload the audio file tomorrow between 6.00 and 7.00 hour (GMT)
Post by: John44 on 01/03/2008 05:00 pm
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3215&Itemid=1
Post by: on 01/03/2008 05:11 pm
Post by: rdale on 01/03/2008 05:14 pm
Post by: on 01/03/2008 05:17 pm
Post by: punkboi on 01/03/2008 06:02 pm
Post by: ChrisC on 01/03/2008 06:34 pm
Post by: Lee Jay on 01/03/2008 06:53 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 3/1/2008 11:17 AM
What's listed on L2?
Nothing much. Just the new NET date, X-ray images of the connector, macro photos of the connector pins, the results of chemical testing, and the time-series response of the circuits during testing.
We're fortunate to have Chris and this site.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 06:54 pm
New NET for STS-122 is Feb 8 (Tanking test) Feb 2 (No Tanking test)...see Dave's comment
Post by: DaveS on 01/03/2008 07:05 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 3/1/2008 8:54 PMThat would be if they do a tanking test. If no tanking test, NET date is Feb. 2.
PRCB Presentations now going into L2, but won't hold people to ransom on the big news.
New NET for STS-122 is Feb 8 (Tanking test) Feb 2 (No Tanking test)...see Dave's comment
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 07:12 pm
Post by: APAagent on 01/03/2008 07:35 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 07:37 pm
Quote
APAagent - 3/1/2008 8:35 PM
Soo is it going up on Jan 10th or Feb 2nd or Feb 8th?
Jan 10 is off the table completely, has been for some time.
It's going to be either:
Feb 2 - if they decide not to do a tanking test.
Feb 8 - if they do a tanking test.
Jan 21 is when they will decide if to do a tanking test or not.
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 01/03/2008 07:49 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 3/1/2008 8:04 AM
L2 information points to STS-122 in earlish Feb:
And we'll be following the PRCB live.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5322
Nice X-Ray image in there!
Only about a month to launch if the plan holds. I think we can all live with that. Great work by the engineers working the troubleshoot.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 08:06 pm
In the interim, I'll write up a normal article which will go deeper into status.
(And thanks Lee for the comment).
Post by: wannamoonbase on 01/03/2008 08:11 pm
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/03/2008 08:21 pm
Quote
wannamoonbase - 3/1/2008 4:11 PM
Chris, any word yet on how that might affect following shuttle flights and how far can Atlantis slip before impacting the HST mission?
Remember that it's not only Atlantis that has to be ready for HST, but Endeavour also has to be ready in case a rescue mission is needed. If my calculations are correct (based on 117 processing days from OPF roll-in after its mission to rollover to the VAB for mating) STS-123 (Endeavour) would have to launch before the Soyuz Ex-17 cutout in late March / early April in order to keep HST targeted for Aug.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 08:30 pm
Quote
wannamoonbase - 3/1/2008 9:11 PM
Chris, any word yet on how that might affect following shuttle flights and how far can Atlantis slip before impacting the HST mission?
FAWG manifest re-alignment is likely to be a while off yet.
Post by: psloss on 01/03/2008 08:40 pm
Quote
Trekkie07 - 3/1/2008 4:21 PMThe "cutout" is more likely to coincide with the ISS crew handover/rotation itself; anik's schedule has the new crew launch on April 8 and the current crew returning on April 19th. Past history suggests deconflicting dockings/undockings, so they'd need to undock before the new crew arrived (like with STS-115) or wait until after the current crew returns (as STS-124 was on the calendar).
STS-123 (Endeavour) would have to launch before the Soyuz Ex-17 cutout in late March / early April in order to keep HST targeted for Aug.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 09:13 pm
Two more weeks of testing on the ET-125 external connector.
Confirms the soldering of the pins on the connector.
Confirms new hardware on the way to KSC.
Confident they are addressing the problem.
Shannon says they are protecting Jan 24, but unlikely. More likely to be Feb 2 to 7 <--watching Progress and the range on the 7th.
Schedule takes us to the Feb 2. If things go really well they can skim it down to Jan 24, and move to the right as they repair.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 09:15 pm
Shannon confirms decision date on the tanking test, says it depends on MSFC testing.
ET-126 modification: Foam removal, but won't replace connector until after MSFC testing.
They've not looked at the rest of the schedule yet.
STS-123 is constrained by min of 5 weeks from STS-122 launch.
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 01/03/2008 09:30 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 3/1/2008 10:15 PM
STS-123 is constrained by min of 5 weeks from STS-122 launch.
Ok, so are we saying (approx.) NET March 20? for STS-123....
I take it this won't affect STS-124 as there is still over a month between March 20 and April 24....
Post by: psloss on 01/03/2008 09:35 pm
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 3/1/2008 5:30 PMDepends. For example, if that five week spacing between missions is a shuttle program constraint, then they'd probably want the same spacing between 123 and 124 at a minimum. (Two missions in five weeks might not be the same thing as three missions in 10-12 weeks, either.)
I take it this won't affect STS-124 as there is still over a month between March 20 and April 24....
The ISS program may also want to do additional replanning of the stages between shuttle missions, which could affect launch dates.
Post by: ChrisC on 01/03/2008 09:41 pm
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 01/03/2008 09:41 pm
Quote
psloss - 3/1/2008 10:35 PMQuoteShuttleDiscovery - 3/1/2008 5:30 PMDepends. For example, if that five week spacing between missions is a shuttle program constraint, then they'd probably want the same spacing between 123 and 124 at a minimum. (Two missions in five weeks might not be the same thing as three missions in 10-12 weeks, either.)
I take it this won't affect STS-124 as there is still over a month between March 20 and April 24....
The ISS program may also want to do additional replanning of the stages between shuttle missions, which could affect launch dates.
Actually, looking at the schedule, I suppose it wouldn't matter too much if STS-124 is pushed back a bit because there is currently a 4 month gap until STS-125 launches in August.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/03/2008 09:42 pm
Post by: on 01/03/2008 09:43 pm
If its early i need to take some time off work to see it
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/03/2008 09:47 pm
Quote
paulbacon - 3/1/2008 5:43 PM
Anyone know the launch times on the 8th?
If its early i need to take some time off work to see it
It'll be mid-afternoon... around 3pm EST.
Post by: psloss on 01/03/2008 09:48 pm
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 3/1/2008 5:41 PMThe schedule for this year at this point is probably "soft" -- in other words, I wouldn't put much weight in the spots on the calendar for 125 or beyond until the schedules for the next three flights are reworked. And that depends on where the work on the ECO system takes the schedule.
Actually, looking at the schedule, I suppose it wouldn't matter too much if STS-124 is pushed back a bit because there is currently a 4 month gap until STS-125 launches in August.
Post by: on 01/03/2008 09:50 pm
Quote
Trekkie07 - 3/1/2008 10:47 PMQuotepaulbacon - 3/1/2008 5:43 PM
Anyone know the launch times on the 8th?
If its early i need to take some time off work to see it
It'll be mid-afternoon... around 3pm EST.
Excellant thanks. Evening time then in the UK :)
Post by: Jamie Young on 01/03/2008 10:29 pm
Post by: RussWhite on 01/03/2008 11:25 pm
NASA will host a media teleconference with Space Shuttle Program Manager Wayne Hale at 4 p.m. CST, Thursday, Jan. 3, to discuss the status of ongoing work to prepare shuttle Atlantis for its launch to the ISS.
I missed the streaming feed at that time. Is there any where to go and listen to the teleconference after the fact?
Thanks, Russ
Post by: NASA_Twix_JSC on 01/03/2008 11:25 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/03/2008 11:29 pm
Quote
RussWhite - 4/1/2008 1:25 AMNot until John44 uploads it to his site, which should be sometime tommorow morning, UTC time zone.
I missed the streaming feed at that time. Is there any where to go and listen to the teleconference after the fact?
Thanks, Russ
Post by: John44 on 01/04/2008 04:30 am
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3216&Itemid=1
Post by: dcbecker on 01/04/2008 01:08 pm
Dan
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/04/2008 01:19 pm
Quote
dcbecker - 4/1/2008 2:08 PM
They've talked about doing more testing at the MSFC in a cryo tank. When the connector is on the ET under fill conditions, how much pressure is maintained in the ET at the point where the failure occurred? would the MSFC testing reproduce the pressure conditions as well as under cryo temp?
Dan
I know we gained some documentation on the tank at MSFC (Images etc.) on L2 yesterday, so let me dig through them and see if we can gain an answer to your specific question.
Welcome to the site, by the way!
Post by: Shuttle Man on 01/04/2008 01:23 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 4/1/2008 8:19 AMQuotedcbecker - 4/1/2008 2:08 PM
They've talked about doing more testing at the MSFC in a cryo tank. When the connector is on the ET under fill conditions, how much pressure is maintained in the ET at the point where the failure occurred? would the MSFC testing reproduce the pressure conditions as well as under cryo temp?
Dan
I know we gained some documentation on the tank at MSFC (Images etc.) on L2 yesterday, so let me dig through them and see if we can gain an answer to your specific question.
Welcome to the site, by the way!
Pages 15 and 16 of MSFC Team Action Presentation on L2 will help him Chris.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/04/2008 01:24 pm
Quote
Shuttle Man - 4/1/2008 2:23 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 4/1/2008 8:19 AMQuotedcbecker - 4/1/2008 2:08 PM
They've talked about doing more testing at the MSFC in a cryo tank. When the connector is on the ET under fill conditions, how much pressure is maintained in the ET at the point where the failure occurred? would the MSFC testing reproduce the pressure conditions as well as under cryo temp?
Dan
I know we gained some documentation on the tank at MSFC (Images etc.) on L2 yesterday, so let me dig through them and see if we can gain an answer to your specific question.
Welcome to the site, by the way!
Pages 15 and 16 of MSFC Team Action Presentation on L2 will help him Chris.
Copy that.
50 PSIG.
Screenshot those two pages from L2 presentation:
Post by: dcbecker on 01/04/2008 02:00 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/04/2008 02:58 pm
Putting the next ET article on hold as there's a new issue with STS-122 which appears to be a constraint to launch. Waiting for updates as it came via notes that managers are arranging a meeting within the hour.
Post by: DaveS on 01/04/2008 04:15 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 4/1/2008 4:58 PMWhat :o ?! Can't this mission catch a break sometime?
Thanks very much!
Putting the next ET article on hold as there's a new issue with STS-122 which appears to be a constraint to launch. Waiting for updates as it came via notes that managers are arranging a meeting within the hour.
Post by: psloss on 01/04/2008 04:21 pm
Quote
DaveS - 4/1/2008 12:15 PMThese historically tend to come in bunches, rather than being evenly distributed.
What :o ?! Can't this mission catch a break sometime?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/04/2008 04:47 pm
Quote
DaveS - 4/1/2008 5:15 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 4/1/2008 4:58 PMWhat :o ?! Can't this mission catch a break sometime?
Thanks very much!
Putting the next ET article on hold as there's a new issue with STS-122 which appears to be a constraint to launch. Waiting for updates as it came via notes that managers are arranging a meeting within the hour.
ATVC related on Atlantis. Presentation dated Jan 4 on L2 now, will write it up.
Seems the worst case is a slip to mid Feb (and yes, they are also working off Feb 2 as the launch date NET).
Post by: Joffan on 01/04/2008 05:01 pm
Post by: rdale on 01/04/2008 05:10 pm
Post by: rdale on 01/04/2008 10:20 pm
ITEM 1 - SHUTTLE CONNECTOR SOLDERED - KSC (REPLAY)
Technicians at NASA's Kennedy Space Center on Friday soldered the pins to the sockets
of the replacement feed through connector that will be installed in space shuttle Atlantis'
external tank. Two technicians from United Launch Alliance, who performed this task on the
Centaur upper stage for Atlas and Titan launches in 1994, were specifically chosen for the task.
Soldering the connector pins and sockets together addresses the most likely cause of a problem
in the engine cutoff sensor system.
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/04/2008 11:00 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 4/1/2008 10:58 AM
Thanks very much!
Putting the next ET article on hold as there's a new issue with STS-122 which appears to be a constraint to launch. Waiting for updates as it came via notes that managers are arranging a meeting within the hour.
Chris is there any word on any new news that came out of this meeting yet?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/04/2008 11:05 pm
Quote
Cosmos27 - 4/1/2008 12:00 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 4/1/2008 10:58 AM
Thanks very much!
Putting the next ET article on hold as there's a new issue with STS-122 which appears to be a constraint to launch. Waiting for updates as it came via notes that managers are arranging a meeting within the hour.
Chris is there any word on any new news that came out of this meeting yet?
Good timing. They are taking option one, replace the ATVC.
This has to be done by Sunday, in order to make the Feb 2 launch date target. Writing it up and will have it on site in about an hour. (Apologies for the delay to the article, but I wanted to wait on the decision for accuracy of current status).
Basically, in black and white:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/04/2008 11:44 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5323
L2 users, refer to SCOM Document (Page 80 of 1190). Graphics of ATVC from page 519 onwards (copying one here:)
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/05/2008 12:00 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/05/2008 12:16 am
Quote
Cosmos27 - 5/1/2008 1:00 AM
Thanks Chris for the great information on this latest issue with STS 122. So a launch by Jan 24th looks impossible for sure now! Better to get everything fixed in one shot!
Thanks.
According to all the engineers and managers I know, Jan 24 was not in with a shot anyway. There was talk about a faster cure time to the foam over the connector area - yet the schedules show they don't even start that process until the 24th! So unless you've got engineers on the pad finishing the foam off at T-0... ;) They'd of had to greatly accelerate the repair and start the foam cure about a week before scheduled, which isn't really viable at all (according to the ET folks).
To add, on L2 we got hold of a memo sent out to all shuttle management today to reiterate that the 24th really was a "if we can skip things forward" style date, that the schedule shows Feb, and that it was for planning purposes only. In all, they will make Feb 2 (no tanking test) or Feb 8 (with a tanking test) as an official NET date in a week or so's time (remembering we don't actually have an official NET at this time, as per ongoing MSFC testing on ET-125's removed external connector hardware).
Of course, this ATVC R&R already works on the NET Feb 2 schedule, as you can see.
Only making a real point of this as there's been too many reports in the media saying "Jan 24" and they'll likely go running "another delay" when it really never was the case of another delay. While we'd all love her to launch on Jan 24, I for one hate negative media when it comes to "another delay" and the "Jan 24 to Feb 2" really is not "another delay".
I'll likely write some of this up, so people can see the quotes from shuttle management and the schedules, to clarify what I'm going on about.
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/05/2008 12:39 am
Post by: erioladastra on 01/05/2008 01:55 am
Good summary. An addition and frustrating problem is that the Jan 24th is a plan to date which means there are now a large amount of products that will be developed for an unrealistic date and will only have to be redone meaning extra working for an already tired work force. Oh and this is to provide schedule relief!
Post by: NASA_Twix_JSC on 01/05/2008 05:19 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 4/1/2008 7:16 PMQuoteCosmos27 - 5/1/2008 1:00 AM
Thanks Chris for the great information on this latest issue with STS 122. So a launch by Jan 24th looks impossible for sure now! Better to get everything fixed in one shot!
Thanks.
According to all the engineers and managers I know, Jan 24 was not in with a shot anyway. There was talk about a faster cure time to the foam over the connector area - yet the schedules show they don't even start that process until the 24th! So unless you've got engineers on the pad finishing the foam off at T-0... ;) They'd of had to greatly accelerate the repair and start the foam cure about a week before scheduled, which isn't really viable at all (according to the ET folks).
To add, on L2 we got hold of a memo sent out to all shuttle management today to reiterate that the 24th really was a "if we can skip things forward" style date, that the schedule shows Feb, and that it was for planning purposes only. In all, they will make Feb 2 (no tanking test) or Feb 8 (with a tanking test) as an official NET date in a week or so's time (remembering we don't actually have an official NET at this time, as per ongoing MSFC testing on ET-125's removed external connector hardware).
Of course, this ATVC R&R already works on the NET Feb 2 schedule, as you can see.
Only making a real point of this as there's been too many reports in the media saying "Jan 24" and they'll likely go running "another delay" when it really never was the case of another delay. While we'd all love her to launch on Jan 24, I for one hate negative media when it comes to "another delay" and the "Jan 24 to Feb 2" really is not "another delay".
I'll likely write some of this up, so people can see the quotes from shuttle management and the schedules, to clarify what I'm going on about.
Exactly. Nothing else to add!
Post by: jacqmans on 01/05/2008 06:41 am
Module
Vehicle: Atlantis (OV-104)
Location: Launch Pad 39A
Launch Date: Under Review
Crew: Frick, Poindexter, Schlegel, Eyharts, Love, Melvin, Walheim
Inclination/Orbit Altitude: 51.6 degrees/122 nautical miles
Shuttle Program managers requested Thursday that flight control teams
and ground operations teams protect for a Jan. 24 launch date. As
work progresses, that date will be modified as required. Other launch
opportunities could come between Jan. 24 and the first week of
February.
At Launch Pad 39A, preparations began for modifications to the engine
cutoff (ECO) sensors. New external connectors and feed-through
assemblies will arrive at KSC Jan. 5-6. Change out is expected to be
completed by Jan. 10. Testing of the faulty ECO sensor continues at
Marshall Space Flight Center with cryo testing planned next week.
Troubleshooting on the ascent thrust vector control (ATVC) was
performed Jan. 3, and the ATVC will be removed, replaced, and then
retested over the weekend.
Post by: eeergo on 01/05/2008 06:16 pm
KSC's Media Gallery has been updated with work on the soldiering of the pins. Some nice high-resolution images of the actual work with the connectors.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/05/2008 06:47 pm
Nothing further at this stage. Don't believe it's a biggy.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/06/2008 09:57 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 5/1/2008 7:47 PM
And the latest is that they are delaying power up due to issues related to the cold plate (which keeps keep the electronics boxes cool.
Nothing further at this stage. Don't believe it's a biggy.
Which is now fixed, and they can go ahead and install the ATVC unit today.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/06/2008 04:02 pm
Post by: mceddiemac on 01/06/2008 09:37 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 6/1/2008 12:02 PM
Still waiting for ATVC installation as of this morning KSC time. Getting a bit tight (though I'm not sure how long they need to physically install it). Atlantis is powered up.
If the ATVC cannot be installed by today (My expectation is that the install will go well), I assume efforts continue tomorrow and are we in a day-for-day slip of the NET date, or are there other items in play that push out the NET date?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/06/2008 10:03 pm
Post by: mceddiemac on 01/06/2008 10:13 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 6/1/2008 6:03 PM
Would have been, but latest L2 info shows them to be completed by 18:00 local.
Good news! Thanks Chris
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/07/2008 12:42 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/07/2008 01:12 am
Quote
Cosmos27 - 7/1/2008 1:42 AM
Chris can you confirm as of yet if the ATVC has been installed? Thank you so much for keeping us well informed on this issue over the weekend!
We don't have it fully documented yet (which is what I prefer...but the expansive processing documentation runs Monday to Friday). However, we have short notes and references from engineers that it was second shift today.
I've also written up the launch date related article, with some of the quotes from Cathy Koerner's memo:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5324
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/07/2008 01:58 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/07/2008 02:10 am
Quote
Cosmos27 - 7/1/2008 2:58 AM
Thanks Chris for the great updates on these issues. Glad to see NASA is working hard to clear up those inaccurate media reports on the possible launch dates of STS 122!
No problem, though that memo from Cathy was not released to the media. Cathy sent the memo to other flight directors and MOD. Given we've got a load of NASA people on site (L2), we also got hold of it. Think of it as more to do with them clarifying where they stand to themselves.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/07/2008 03:28 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/07/2008 03:31 am
First one is USA. Shows they are on time for Feb 2.
Second schedule from NASA MSFC, shows they are on target for Feb 2 (Or - as you can see here, Feb 7 with a tanking test - decision on that is to come).
They are screenshots from the PDFs, so click the images for larger, readable versions.
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 01/07/2008 12:44 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/07/2008 01:01 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 7/1/2008 2:12 AMQuoteCosmos27 - 7/1/2008 1:42 AM
Chris can you confirm as of yet if the ATVC has been installed? Thank you so much for keeping us well informed on this issue over the weekend!
We don't have it fully documented yet (which is what I prefer...but the expansive processing documentation runs Monday to Friday). However, we have short notes and references from engineers that it was second shift today.
I've also written up the launch date related article, with some of the quotes from Cathy Koerner's memo:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5324
And now documented as completed on time with the ATVC.
Post by: Mark Nguyen on 01/07/2008 07:21 pm
Mark
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/08/2008 01:28 am
Will write it up.
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/08/2008 01:41 am
Post by: rdale on 01/08/2008 01:57 am
Quote
Cosmos27 - 7/1/2008 9:41 PM
This does not sound good for making a February launch
Don't even hint at eliminating February based on the above... There's no reason to make that leap yet.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/08/2008 03:37 am
Headache of an article to write, but will be within the next hour or so.
Post by: Avron on 01/08/2008 03:53 am
Well at least at the end of the program, one would hope that a Dumb drop tank could be made that works.
This is a connector, a basic piece of hardware used on many a tank on many a launch vehicle.. is this a make work project? or a QC problem..?
Maybe zero risk is the only option.. don't fly until the LV is re-certified?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/08/2008 04:32 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5325
Post by: Avron on 01/08/2008 04:41 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 8/1/2008 12:32 AM
Article on the new issue. Note that it was written without a dramatic "run for the hills" angle, as I really have nothing but admiration for the engineers on this. They could so easily of said "never been a problem before, don't worry about it" but instead they are bending over backwards to cover all the bases. Ironically, that's my retort to some of Avron's post :)
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5325
Someones got to cover the larger angle... ;)
But the questions still remain. (without heading for any hills)
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 01/08/2008 05:34 am
Post by: shuttlefan on 01/08/2008 12:34 pm
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 01/08/2008 12:39 pm
Post by: Bejowawo on 01/08/2008 12:56 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 8/1/2008 2:39 PM
As always, an interesting article. It is possible that this problem as always been there, but with more specialized testing, the cracks/scratches showed up. As a general note, does anyone have a blog that list all of the abbreviations that are used by NASA?
For the abbreviations you can look at the acronyms page (just below the top menu bar, simply scroll up this page)
You can also switch on the "Acronym Popup Feature" - then you get an explanation what the abbreviation means just as you hover over them with your mouse!
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 01/08/2008 01:16 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/08/2008 02:04 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 8/1/2008 1:39 PM
It is possible that this problem as always been there, but with more specialized testing, the cracks/scratches showed up.
Absolutely. That's how it's been characterized.
Post by: Stowbridge on 01/08/2008 04:45 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 8/1/2008 12:32 AM
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5325
Very good article. Thanks.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/08/2008 10:13 pm
In case anyone wondering if things have ground to a standstill. Nope. They are still completing the pre-installation testing at the pad, and waiting for opening MSFC test results (which are pending 24/48 hours).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/09/2008 10:32 am
Article coming, with quotes from Wayne Hale (from L2 - where we're covering this live). Potential for a second article to follow late tonight.
What we DO NOT want to see is a curve ball on the MSFC test results.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/09/2008 12:33 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5326
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 01/09/2008 01:19 pm
Post by: STSFan10 on 01/09/2008 03:32 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/09/2008 03:40 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/09/2008 03:42 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/09/2008 05:18 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/09/2008 06:27 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/09/2008 08:57 pm
We will likely wait until the rest arrive for tomorrow's PRCB before knowing where things stand, but we are hoping that the go-ahead has been given to install the replacement connector.
Will post when we know.
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/09/2008 10:40 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 12:45 am
Post by: ChrisC on 01/10/2008 01:11 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 01:26 am
Quote
ChrisC - 10/1/2008 2:11 AM
But that in itself nothing new. It had been planned for late Thursday per your earlier post. Unless there's more going on that you can't tell us yet :)
Just keeping you all up to date, live. No hidden messages ;)
Post by: STS Tony on 01/10/2008 04:43 am
Post by: STS Tony on 01/10/2008 04:49 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 02:20 pm
No tanking test is being recommended (saves five days or so). Feb 2 looks hopeful.
Lots of presentations to go through, but will do an article for sure.
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 01/10/2008 02:24 pm
Post by: NASA_Twix_JSC on 01/10/2008 02:40 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 10/1/2008 9:24 AM
Thanks for the update.
You don't need to post that every time Chris updates the live status ;)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 04:44 pm
L2 information pointing to new schedule of THREE launches in the space of about two and a half months :cool:
Post by: Joffan on 01/10/2008 06:00 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 06:16 pm
Post by: anik on 01/10/2008 07:03 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 10/1/2008 10:16 PM
End of PRCB throws a curveball and notes Feb 7 for STS-122 now. We're checking as to why
I was told we can not move Progress M-63 launch date from February 7 to the end of January (for allowing NASA to launch STS-122 on February 2) or to the middle of February (after STS-122 landing)... So NASA moves STS-122 launch to February 7 or 8 and we move Progress M-63 launch to February 5... It is the best thing we can do for NASA in this case...
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 07:15 pm
Post by: Namechange User on 01/10/2008 07:33 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 07:39 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5327 (and an excuse to use my favorite image) :)
A lot more to go into that article from the PRCB. Will post when it's a full article.
Post by: marshallsplace on 01/10/2008 07:57 pm
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 01/10/2008 08:02 pm
Quote
marshallsplace - 10/1/2008 8:57 PM
Looks like we could be still on schedule for ISS construction by the end of 2008 :)
Certainly seems highly achievable. :)
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/10/2008 08:42 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 08:46 pm
Quote
Cosmos27 - 10/1/2008 9:42 PM
Chris has the replacement connector been installed back into the tank as of today.
Not yet. We'll get word when they have completed confidence testing for installation. Hope is today, but there's no rush so long as it's this week, which should be the case.
Post by: on 01/10/2008 08:47 pm
Post by: ChrisC on 01/10/2008 08:54 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 10/1/2008 4:47 PMI'd guess around 2:45pm, give or take half an hour. I'm waiting for Bill Harwood to update his table, but I think I extrapolated it right.
What would be the launch time on the 7th?
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/122/122windows.html
Post by: dsmillman on 01/10/2008 08:55 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 09:20 pm
Quote
dsmillman - 10/1/2008 9:55 PM
About 2:45 PM EST.
2:47pm we're hearing.
Post by: Rob in KC on 01/10/2008 09:47 pm
I love this site :cool:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/10/2008 09:52 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 10/1/2008 8:39 PM
And to get the launch dates published:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5327 (and an excuse to use my favorite image) :)
A lot more to go into that article from the PRCB. Will post when it's a full article.
Full article on site now.
Post by: stockman on 01/10/2008 11:11 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 10/1/2008 5:20 PMQuotedsmillman - 10/1/2008 9:55 PM
About 2:45 PM EST.
2:47pm we're hearing.
Thats good, that puts us mid day so we should have good lighting for the camera's most of the way up I would imagine.
Post by: Bubbinski on 01/11/2008 06:13 am
Post by: ChrisC on 01/11/2008 01:18 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/11/2008 01:28 pm
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 01/11/2008 03:13 pm
Post by: anik on 01/11/2008 03:45 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 11/1/2008 7:13 PM
With the ISS boost that is scheduled for 7:42 PM today, how much higher will the ISS be?
According to MCC-M website, the mean height of ISS orbit will increase by 5.25 kilometers...
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/11/2008 09:56 pm
Doesn't look like this was mentioned, so I'll go ahead. ;)
Appears to me that there's a webcam at the ET R&R site for the Feed-through Connector, located here (HTML) or here (Java). Two images posted below to provide information.
Also, there is a White Room camera that has been hooked up, located here (HTML) or here (Java).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/11/2008 10:02 pm
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 01/12/2008 04:57 am
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 01/12/2008 05:01 am
Post by: jacqmans on 01/12/2008 06:00 am
laboratory
Vehicle: Atlantis (OV-104)
Location: Launch Pad 39A
Launch Date: Targeting Feb. 7
Crew: Frick, Poindexter, Schlegel, Eyharts, Love, Melvin, Walheim
Inclination/Orbit Altitude: 51.6 degrees/122 nautical miles
Launch Pad 39A
- Engine cutoff (ECO) sensor external connector replacement hardware
was cleared for installation and arrived at the pad. Installation is
tentatively scheduled to begin Saturday
- Testing of the faulty ECO sensor system connector hardware continues
at Marshall Space Flight Center
- Space shuttle main engine ball seal leak checks performed Thursday
with no issues
- Ascent thrust vector controller No. 2 was replaced Jan. 5 and
retested Jan. 6
- Solid rocket booster hydraulic retest scheduled for today
Post by: SimonShuttle on 01/12/2008 07:31 am
Post by: ChrisC on 01/12/2008 01:36 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/12/2008 03:39 pm
Post by: Justin Space on 01/12/2008 03:59 pm
Quote
ChrisC - 12/1/2008 8:36 AM
Are there any initial results to report from the Marshall testing of the original ET-125 feedthrough and external connector?
Presentations worth on L2. All good (the glass was a concern, but there's a presentation on that being less of a problem now, after they did more tests, could have been nasty!). I think there's over 100 pdfs now on L2 about this. Pretty amazing really, not L2, as that's always awesome, but the effort. They've produced everything from testing an X-33 connector to nano xraying connectors lol. The bionic man didn't have this level of operations! :cool:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/12/2008 06:06 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/12/2008 07:29 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/12/2008 08:09 pm
Was reviewing the presentation on the installation. Bloody complicated stuff. Will write it up and use some images etc...as this is going to take several hours to have the part all spliced into the tank.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/12/2008 09:19 pm
Post by: ChrisC on 01/12/2008 09:33 pm
"Reboost Update: The ISS reboost yesterday by the twin SM main engines was successfully conducted on time (7:42pm EST). Purpose of the 1m 58s long maneuver burn was to establish the correct phasing conditions for 27S launch and the STS-122/1E launch season (FD3 rendezvous)."
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/osf/iss_reports/index.htm
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/13/2008 01:00 am
Quote
ChrisC - 12/1/2008 5:33 PM
I don't know where I saw it, but in one of these threads someone posted something to the effect that yesterday's ISS reboost for Progress phasing was going to force the STS-122/1E mission to rendezvous on flight day 4. That's not true. Here's what today's ISS status report says:
"Reboost Update: The ISS reboost yesterday by the twin SM main engines was successfully conducted on time (7:42pm EST). Purpose of the 1m 58s long maneuver burn was to establish the correct phasing conditions for 27S launch and the STS-122/1E launch season (FD3 rendezvous)."
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/osf/iss_reports/index.htm
Thanks Chris C for clearing that incorrect info up! I thought I heard that info as well and I am so glad the ISS reboost has no ill effect on the STS 122 mission! :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 04:43 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 04:44 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 05:44 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 05:58 am
As per L2: "LH2 tank vent scheduled for 3rd shift Sunday no earlier than 03:00."
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 07:50 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5330
Post by: Wisi on 01/13/2008 08:51 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 13/1/2008 9:50 AM
State of play article based on numerous L2 presentations:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5330
Real great overview! Thanks for that, Chris!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 03:07 pm
For those wondering why this installation took the best part of the weekend, they had wire splicing issues on Saturday morning.
Tank vent was delayed to 10am. One of the helmetball fans too....(I assume whatever team that is will suggest if he's a KSC or MAF guy) :)
Post by: Jorge on 01/13/2008 03:37 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 13/1/2008 10:07 AM
Thanks :)
For those wondering why this installation took the best part of the weekend, they had wire splicing issues on Saturday morning.
Tank vent was delayed to 10am. One of the helmetball fans too....(I assume whatever team that is will suggest if he's a KSC or MAF guy) :)
Most likely a MAF guy... Louisiana State University is west of New Orleans, in Baton Rouge. And they won the national championship in the Louisiana Superdome. But you can't tell for sure, because LSU has alumni at multiple centers.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 04:02 pm
Can't confirm, but going off the webcam, there's not been any activity in shot, so we might be able to assume they are into the venting stage/leak checks.
Post by: Jackson on 01/13/2008 05:26 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5330
"STS-122 ECO related news content: *Scrub 1* - *MMT Debate* - *Scrub 2* - *Hale Memo* - *Forward Plan* - *Culprit Found* - *Tanking Test* - *Repair Options* - *MAF Plan* - *PRCB Debate* - *Plan Approved* - *Repair Schedule* - *Launch Date* - *New Issue* - *Hale Rallying Call* - *PRCB Launch Dates*"
So the latest is the 17th article you've written on the ECO sensor problems for STS-122 :o
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 05:36 pm
Quote
Jackson - 13/1/2008 6:26 PM
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5330
"STS-122 ECO related news content: *Scrub 1* - *MMT Debate* - *Scrub 2* - *Hale Memo* - *Forward Plan* - *Culprit Found* - *Tanking Test* - *Repair Options* - *MAF Plan* - *PRCB Debate* - *Plan Approved* - *Repair Schedule* - *Launch Date* - *New Issue* - *Hale Rallying Call* - *PRCB Launch Dates*"
So the latest is the 17th article you've written on the ECO sensor problems for STS-122 :o
Well I wrote 16 of them, but I've got 21 to beat (ET-124's repairs after hail damage) ;)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 08:44 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/13/2008 10:31 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/13/2008 10:53 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 13/1/2008 11:31 PM
Looks like they've closed off the connector, I'm not sure if it's permanent or not (looks temporary..):
They have leak and electrical tests on the schedule before they spray the foam back on.
Post by: on 01/14/2008 02:00 am
Post by: on 01/14/2008 02:06 am
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/14/2008 04:22 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 13/1/2008 1:36 PMQuoteJackson - 13/1/2008 6:26 PM
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5330
"STS-122 ECO related news content: *Scrub 1* - *MMT Debate* - *Scrub 2* - *Hale Memo* - *Forward Plan* - *Culprit Found* - *Tanking Test* - *Repair Options* - *MAF Plan* - *PRCB Debate* - *Plan Approved* - *Repair Schedule* - *Launch Date* - *New Issue* - *Hale Rallying Call* - *PRCB Launch Dates*"
So the latest is the 17th article you've written on the ECO sensor problems for STS-122 :o
Well I wrote 16 of them, but I've got 21 to beat (ET-124's repairs after hail damage) ;)
Patients my friend. You'll get there. ;) Afterall, there are still 25 days 'til Feb 7.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/14/2008 02:18 pm
Post by: uko on 01/14/2008 02:34 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/14/2008 02:43 pm
Quote
uko - 14/1/2008 3:34 PM
Has the testing at MSFC now confirmed that the connector was the culprit (could they repeat the behaviour?).. or is it still only "the most probable cause"?
Great timing. We're getting the presentations into L2 as we speak, literally right now! Need to read through them and will report back.
Post by: eeergo on 01/14/2008 03:34 pm
Meanwhile, the Media Gallery has been updated with some images of the feed-through installation (what we saw in the webcams, only in higher-res and over-the-shoulder) and wire splicing results. The whole process can be seen in them, I only attach a few to illustrate:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/14/2008 03:45 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 14/1/2008 3:43 PMQuoteuko - 14/1/2008 3:34 PM
Has the testing at MSFC now confirmed that the connector was the culprit (could they repeat the behaviour?).. or is it still only "the most probable cause"?
Great timing. We're getting the presentations into L2 as we speak, literally right now! Need to read through them and will report back.
Looks like very good news. Over the weekend, on LH2 runs, they had circuit instability on LH2 ECOs 2 and 4.
Will write it up as this looks hopeful that it IS the external connector at fault.
Post by: Mark Max Q on 01/14/2008 05:34 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/14/2008 07:26 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5331
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 01/14/2008 07:58 pm
Just like the STS-117 tank repair, this is NASA showing off how good it is at solving a problem and fixing it to ensure maximum safety for vehicle & crew. :)
February 7 here we come!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/14/2008 09:04 pm
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 14/1/2008 8:58 PM
Thanks for the article Chris.
Just like the STS-117 tank repair, this is NASA showing off how good it is at solving a problem and fixing it to ensure maximum safety for vehicle & crew. :)
February 7 here we come!
Well said that man :)
Post by: dynamite_rabbit on 01/14/2008 11:47 pm
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 14/1/2008 1:58 PM
Just like the STS-117 tank repair, this is NASA showing off how good it is at solving a problem and fixing it to ensure maximum safety for vehicle & crew. :)
I had to laugh today. The Jan. 7 Aviation Week & Space Technology has a letter to the editor condemning NASA for not having enough sensors.
"Give me a break. Put more sensors in the tank if that's what it takes to stop sensor-related scrubs. Sounds to me like it's time to break out Cost-Benefit Analysis 101."
Sounds to me like it's time to let NASA do their job. They're pretty good at it!
Post by: Flightstar on 01/15/2008 12:56 am
Quote
dynamite_rabbit - 14/1/2008 6:47 PMQuoteShuttleDiscovery - 14/1/2008 1:58 PM
Just like the STS-117 tank repair, this is NASA showing off how good it is at solving a problem and fixing it to ensure maximum safety for vehicle & crew. :)
I had to laugh today. The Jan. 7 Aviation Week & Space Technology has a letter to the editor condemning NASA for not having enough sensors.
"Give me a break. Put more sensors in the tank if that's what it takes to stop sensor-related scrubs. Sounds to me like it's time to break out Cost-Benefit Analysis 101."
Sounds to me like it's time to let NASA do their job. They're pretty good at it!
There's so many things wrong with that letter to the editor, but thankfully it doesn't need explaining to this site's readership as to why.
Post by: George CA on 01/15/2008 06:21 am
Post by: montmein69 on 01/15/2008 10:22 am
I would like to know what kind of seal is used to avoid any LH2 leak.
Are they round shape metallic one's ? in copper ? Are they put in the two round grooves ?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/16/2008 01:46 pm
Post by: psloss on 01/16/2008 05:40 pm
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/currentglance.html#WINDOWS
Post by: psloss on 01/16/2008 05:44 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=170
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/16/2008 05:45 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/16/2008 07:37 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/16/2008 08:22 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/16/2008 09:54 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/16/2008 11:46 pm
February 4, Monday
10 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
1 p.m. - NASA Administrator's Budget Briefing - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
2:30 p.m. - Replay of STS-122 Crew Arrival - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
Feb. 5, Tuesday
10 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
4 p.m. - STS-122 Launch Readiness News Conference - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
Feb. 6, Wednesday
10 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channel)
1 p.m. - ESA Columbus Module Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channel)
Feb. 7, Thursday
5:30 a.m. - STS-122 Fueling Coverage Begins - KSC (All Channels)
9:15 a.m. - ISS Progress 28 Docking Coverage (Docking is scheduled for 9:33 a.m.) - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
9:45 a.m. - STS-122 Launch Coverage Begins - KSC (All Channels)
2:45 p.m. - STS-122 Launch (All Channels)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/17/2008 04:23 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/17/2008 06:53 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/17/2008 06:03 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/17/2008 07:46 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5334
Post by: AntiKev on 01/17/2008 09:14 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 17/1/2008 2:03 PM
(sorry for the delay, working on a major story at the same time).
Does the major story have to do with Constellation or the SARJ? Or something different?
Post by: Flightstar on 01/17/2008 09:41 pm
Post by: AntiKev on 01/17/2008 09:43 pm
Post by: ShuttleFan75 on 01/17/2008 11:59 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 17/1/2008 2:46 PM
Latest:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5334
Another great read. Love the passion shown by Mr Hill!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/18/2008 03:29 am
Quote
ShuttleFan75 - 18/1/2008 12:59 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 17/1/2008 2:46 PM
Latest:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5334
Another great read. Love the passion shown by Mr Hill!
Thanks! Me too.
Post by: Andy USA on 01/18/2008 09:01 pm
http://webcams.ksc.nasa.gov/ImgCap/Camera1/Camera1html.htm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/18/2008 10:12 pm
Quote
Andy USA - 18/1/2008 10:01 PM
Did the webcam break?
http://webcams.ksc.nasa.gov/ImgCap/Camera1/Camera1html.htm
Probably because its not required. I doubt the cams are there for our entertainment, but it proved to be a good resource during the actual R&R.
Post by: ChrisC on 01/19/2008 04:14 am
So, does this mean that they will do a tanking test? I'm aware that doing a tanking isn't free (you use up another cycle on the foam design life). Has there been a decision made already on this, either way, or are we still waiting on Monday for that decision?
Prior to the MSFC results it was deemed "very likely", but more recently it seemed like they were developing rational to skip the test.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/19/2008 08:51 am
The decision was based on benefit of the test vs putting the tank through another cryo cycles (potential of TPS foam cracking).
Post by: jacqmans on 01/19/2008 09:01 am
laboratory
Vehicle: Atlantis (OV-104)
Location: Launch Pad 39A
Launch Date: Targeting Feb. 7
Crew: Frick, Poindexter, Schlegel, Eyharts, Love, Melvin, Walheim
Inclination/Orbit Altitude: 51.6 degrees/122 nautical miles
Launch Pad 39A
- Engine cutoff (ECO) sensor external feedthrough connector
installation is complete
- Aft ECO instrumentation wiring removal and retest was completed
- All sensors have been tested successfully
- ECO sensor feedthrough foaming work on the external J-Box and solid
rocket booster PAL ramp continues through the weekend
- Annual slidewire basket pad evacuation system maintenance and
checkout continues through the weekend
- Solid rocket booster hydraulic retesting was completed Monday
- Liquid oxygen storage tank pressurization and relief valve testing
was successfully completed Tuesday
Post by: jok on 01/19/2008 09:02 am
![]("http://i4.tinypic.com/82ucitz.gif")
spraying BX-265
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/19/2008 09:06 am
Post by: dsmillman on 01/19/2008 12:15 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/19/2008 01:35 pm
Quote
dsmillman - 19/1/2008 7:15 AM
The KSC shuttle status is mentioning troubleshooting on Fuel Cell #2 (IPR 0113). Do we have any information on this?
And for the L2 status reports: We don't get them during the weekends, so we're kinda in the dark right now.
Post by: STSFan10 on 01/19/2008 05:58 pm
Quote
dsmillman - 19/1/2008 7:15 AM
The KSC shuttle status is mentioning troubleshooting on Fuel Cell #2 (IPR 0113). Do we have any information on this?
What page is that? URL?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/20/2008 12:45 am
Post by: brahmanknight on 01/20/2008 12:47 am
Post by: on 01/20/2008 01:34 am
Post by: rdale on 01/20/2008 03:18 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/20/2008 03:19 am
Quote
rdale - 20/1/2008 4:18 AM
Some gusty winds but nothing severe...
Thanks Rob. Was hoping you'd be around :)
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/20/2008 03:16 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/20/2008 07:13 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5336
Post by: kimmern123 on 01/20/2008 08:13 pm
By the way, I just spotted a small error. The article says Atlantis has been sitting out at Launch Pad 39B, but I think that should be 39A ;)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/20/2008 08:36 pm
Quote
kimmern123 - 20/1/2008 9:13 PM
Great article, Chris!
By the way, I just spotted a small error. The article says Atlantis has been sitting out at Launch Pad 39B, but I think that should be 39A ;)
Opps! :o Thanks!
Post by: rdale on 01/20/2008 09:19 pm
Quote
Cosmos27 - 20/1/2008 11:16 AM
Rob can you give us an update on last nights severe weather. Did everything turn out to be OK?
Yep, same as before - winds briefly gusted to about 20-30mph, and about 1/3" of rain... No severe weather.
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/20/2008 09:25 pm
Post by: Martin FL on 01/21/2008 11:43 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 20/1/2008 2:13 PM
Latest on STS-122 - pre delta FRR.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5336
I like the spray gif. Nice work by Jok on that.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/21/2008 05:12 pm
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9511&mid=233551#M233551
Post by: Jonesy STS on 01/21/2008 06:41 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/22/2008 11:20 am
Quote
dsmillman - 19/1/2008 1:15 PM
The KSC shuttle status is mentioning troubleshooting on Fuel Cell #2 (IPR 0113). Do we have any information on this?
Per L2:
Fuel Cell #2 Voltage Increase will be put down to a UA............due to minor regulator flow in the presence of residual O2 in the manifold.
Post by: DaveS on 01/22/2008 11:40 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 22/1/2008 1:20 PMNot UA(Unexplained Anomaly), but EA(Explained Anomaly).
Per L2:
Fuel Cell #2 Voltage Increase will be put down to a UA............due to minor regulator flow in the presence of residual O2 in the manifold.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/22/2008 04:11 pm
Latest:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5338
Post by: psloss on 01/22/2008 05:15 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 22/1/2008 12:11 PMThankfully no.
Anyone having dreams about LH2 Feed-through connectors yet? ;)
Post by: DaveS on 01/22/2008 05:19 pm
Post by: Sarah Shuttle on 01/23/2008 09:15 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/23/2008 12:05 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 22/1/2008 12:11 PM
Anyone having dreams about LH2 Feed-through connectors yet? ;)
Latest:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5338
No, but dreaming she'll fly on the 7th.
Great article, as always.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/23/2008 07:31 pm
One last thing to get out of the way is the inspections to Atlantis' Radiator hoses. If that's ok, then that's her pretty much sorted.
Or specifically, as per L2: "They are also doing a check of the radiator flex hoses that carry the coolant from the system to the radiators."
Previous article on this: http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5316
Post by: eeergo on 01/23/2008 08:32 pm
They have posted in KSC's Media Gallery some images showing how the connector area is looking, now that the foam has been reapplied. Much clearer area, though it's quite small so I think it won't be too noticeable.
(Future reference to all, attach images, otherwise you mess up the format - James).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/24/2008 01:26 pm
Post by: wannamoonbase on 01/24/2008 02:14 pm
I know probably getting ahead of myself. But with all the activity going on I won't be comfortable that Feb 7th is a real launch date until the tank is loaded.
Post by: psloss on 01/24/2008 03:14 pm
Quote
wannamoonbase - 24/1/2008 10:14 AMDaveS posted a prelim TV schedule last week -- a few pages back in this thread:
Chris, any word yet on when activity really picks up for launch? Astro's flying in, countdown start, cryo load etc?
I know probably getting ahead of myself. But with all the activity going on I won't be comfortable that Feb 7th is a real launch date until the tank is loaded.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11113&start=616#M232109
Other prelim schedules are around, as on Bill Harwood's site (link (http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/currentglance.html#COUNT)), extrapolating from the timelines during the first countdown in December. As long as things continue to track well, they'll set a launch date next week and start the countdown.
Splitting hairs, but tanking to me signifies they'll make a launch attempt and that's well after setting a date and well after starting the countdown. (And even after tanking is completed, there's a lot of things that have to happen correctly to get to liftoff.)
Post by: MechTech on 01/24/2008 09:17 pm
Quote
DaveS - 22/1/2008 12:19 PMNo , looks like the Engine Service Platform transporter to me .
Is that object to the very left in this image a Crawler?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/25/2008 09:56 am
Root cause found for ET-125's ECO sensor system anomalies.
Kryrox grease contamination (electrical insulator at cryo temps). Will write it up.
Consideration of Feb 6 as launch date (but looks like Feb 7 still). Holding that part of the documentation until after the FRR. Very solid for launch now.
Massive LCC discussion at the PRCB yesterday (about eight presentations).
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5340 (Summary. Would have been about 20,000 words if I'd of used all of the content :) )
Another article will follow from the FRR (which we'll cover live in L2).
Post by: Terry Rocket on 01/25/2008 11:44 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/1/2008 4:56 AM
As per L2:
Root cause found for ET-125's ECO sensor system anomalies.
Kryrox grease contamination (electrical insulator at cryo temps). Will write it up.
Consideration of Feb 6 as launch date (but looks like Feb 7 still). Holding that part of the documentation until after the FRR. Very solid for launch now.
Massive LCC discussion at the PRCB yesterday (about eight presentations).
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5340 (Summary. Would have been about 20,000 words if I'd of used all of the content :) )
Another article will follow from the FRR (which we'll cover live in L2).
Thanks for all the coverage. Been really interesting to follow this troubleshoot.
Post by: Martin FL on 01/25/2008 02:39 pm
Post by: Pete at Edwards on 01/25/2008 04:48 pm
Post by: spaceshuttle on 01/25/2008 05:13 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/25/2008 09:22 pm
I'll look at writing some of it up for an article tomorrow morning (might need two articles, we'll see).
Couple of weeks and we'll have the Shuttle Surge back on. Three launches over about 10 weeks from that point!
Post by: on 01/25/2008 09:33 pm
Post by: Captain Scarlet on 01/26/2008 10:12 am
Quote
Terry Rocket - 25/1/2008 6:44 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 25/1/2008 4:56 AM
As per L2:
Root cause found for ET-125's ECO sensor system anomalies.
Kryrox grease contamination (electrical insulator at cryo temps). Will write it up.
Consideration of Feb 6 as launch date (but looks like Feb 7 still). Holding that part of the documentation until after the FRR. Very solid for launch now.
Massive LCC discussion at the PRCB yesterday (about eight presentations).
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5340 (Summary. Would have been about 20,000 words if I'd of used all of the content :) )
Another article will follow from the FRR (which we'll cover live in L2).
Thanks for all the coverage. Been really interesting to follow this troubleshoot.
Yeah, ditto!
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/27/2008 05:42 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/27/2008 10:16 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5341
Specific Delta FRR Thread and larger images:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11629&start=1
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/28/2008 03:35 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/28/2008 10:16 pm
East and West Flame Deflectors at the pad are in launch configuration.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/29/2008 09:20 am
(Writing it up).
Post by: shuttlefan on 01/29/2008 11:58 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 29/1/2008 4:20 AM
Payload Bay Doors to be opened today for inspections on the radiator retract hose concern, noteed on Discovery.
(Writing it up).
I do believe Atlantis's hoses have been cleared for flight though, correct?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/29/2008 03:41 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5343
Sorry, not my best, in transit, so went quote heavy from the FRR documentation.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/29/2008 07:11 pm
Meetings taking place.
Post by: shuttlefan on 01/29/2008 08:05 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 29/1/2008 2:11 PM
Not good news as per L2. They've found a kink/bend in the stbd aft radiator retract hose.
Meetings taking place.
Could this POSSIBLY lead to a rollback? I stress the word 'possibly' because I'm not trying to jump to premature conclusions--just curious. Thanks.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/29/2008 08:11 pm
Let's see how this pans out. We'll certainly know much better by the time the SOMD FRR meets tomorrow morning.
Post by: trlstyle on 01/29/2008 08:19 pm
Post by: spaceshuttle on 01/29/2008 09:53 pm
Quote
trlstyle - 29/1/2008 3:19 PM
Oh man, can't our poor girl catch a break? :frown:
This is Atlantis we're discussing. She doesn't get breaks.
Post by: psloss on 01/29/2008 10:53 pm
And FWIW, this isn't just an Atlantis problem, as Chris noted in his story and in the thread (before the check was done on OV-104).
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/29/2008 11:42 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 11:25 am
Doesn't look like they can R&R at the pad, so it'll come down to flying as is or rollback and destack. Lots and lots of memo traffic on this, so I will round up when we know a current position from this morning's meetings.
Appears to be "more likely" that they'll fly as is, compared to R&R, based on my assumption at least.
Everyone keep your fingers crossed for fly as is (yes, even you Rob)
Post by: Justin Space on 01/30/2008 11:25 am
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 01:11 pm
Quote
Justin Space - 30/1/2008 7:25 AMIt's quite possible that it has "happened before," but wasn't detected. (From the sound of it, it is not an easy condition to see, particularly since the door needs to be closed or mostly closed.)
Amazing that it hasn't happened before, is found on Discovery and then Atlantis at the same time.
Post by: rdale on 01/30/2008 01:56 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 30/1/2008 7:25 AM
Everyone keep your fingers crossed for fly as is (yes, even you Rob)
I will reverse-cross them and we'll see how that impacts things :bleh:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 03:25 pm
It's been called the "mega bend on aft stbd freon loop hose" on the memos flying around the managers etc. We have a hi res photo of it and I'll include that into the next article.
Post by: DaveS on 01/30/2008 03:33 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 30/1/2008 5:25 PMActually that's supposed to be omega(O) after its appearance.
Just to update:
It's been called the "mega bend on aft stbd freon loop hose" on the memos flying around the managers etc. We have a hi res photo of it and I'll include that into the next article.
Post by: STS Tony on 01/30/2008 03:40 pm
Quote
DaveS - 30/1/2008 10:33 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 30/1/2008 5:25 PMActually that's supposed to be omega(O) after its appearance.
Just to update:
It's been called the "mega bend on aft stbd freon loop hose" on the memos flying around the managers etc. We have a hi res photo of it and I'll include that into the next article.
Mega means large. Omega is the shape. I think you got a translation wrong.
Post by: mkirk on 01/30/2008 04:54 pm
Quote
STS Tony - 30/1/2008 10:40 AMQuoteDaveS - 30/1/2008 10:33 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 30/1/2008 5:25 PMActually that's supposed to be omega(O) after its appearance.
Just to update:
It's been called the "mega bend on aft stbd freon loop hose" on the memos flying around the managers etc. We have a hi res photo of it and I'll include that into the next article.
Mega means large. Omega is the shape. I think you got a translation wrong.
Actually in the original MOD email sent out, I think he was just trying to be clever by making a play on the words.
It is a big bend- for a part that is supposed to be straight after retract - and yes it does have an "S curve" shape in it now.
Mark Kirkman
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 04:55 pm
Quote
STS Tony - 30/1/2008 11:40 AMNever question Dave. :)QuoteDaveS - 30/1/2008 10:33 AM
Actually that's supposed to be omega(O) after its appearance.
Mega means large. Omega is the shape. I think you got a translation wrong.
Actually both adjectives work -- it's a "mega" bend, but look at the shape of the the bend in picture (and the caption) that Chris put in his article (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5343) -- which I believe is from OV-103.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 05:45 pm
Here's a better image, screenshot from the STS-122 FRR (Main) Overview presentation. Pages 162 through 174 for those on L2.
Post by: DaveS on 01/30/2008 07:07 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 07:17 pm
ECOs, we pretty much know about. Interesting will be any updates on the forward plan for the hose.
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 07:30 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 01/30/2008 07:31 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 01/30/2008 07:32 pm
Gerst: 7th still looking good for launch, despite hose issue. Will meet again Saturday.
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 07:32 pm
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 07:33 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 07:36 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5344
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 07:37 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 01/30/2008 07:38 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 30/1/2008 3:36 PM
Running with what I had then.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5344
Just bear in mind they are meeting again Saturday to reassess the hose issue, so the 7th isn't a done deal just yet.
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 01/30/2008 07:41 pm
Hale: If we didn't have this hose to talk about, frankly it'd be boring.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 07:47 pm
Quote
generic_handle_42 - 30/1/2008 8:38 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 30/1/2008 3:36 PM
Running with what I had then.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5344
Just bear in mind they are meeting again Saturday to reassess the hose issue, so the 7th isn't a done deal just yet.
Yeah, I know. The Delta FRR have approved Feb 7 as the move forward, with the hose under evalaution still. That's what I wrote :) Dates are never 'done deals' but they are still tracking Feb 7 as per FRR.
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 01/30/2008 07:47 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 30/1/2008 3:47 PMQuotegeneric_handle_42 - 30/1/2008 8:38 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 30/1/2008 3:36 PM
Running with what I had then.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5344
Just bear in mind they are meeting again Saturday to reassess the hose issue, so the 7th isn't a done deal just yet.
Yeah, I know. The Delta FRR have approved Feb 7 as the move forward, with the hose under evalaution still. That's what I wrote :) Dates are never 'done deals' but they are still tracking Feb 7 as per FRR.
Fair enough. You know what you're talking about better than I do. :)
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 08:08 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 09:47 pm
This is a live processing update thread. Keep it on that.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/30/2008 10:26 pm
To round up. These are the articles I've done on this issue:
Engineers evaluating radiator hose issue on the fleet (from December)
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5316
Engineers find issue with Atlantis' radiator retract hose
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5343
FRR approve Feb 7 for STS-122 pending hose evaluations
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5344
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/30/2008 10:50 pm
Quote
psloss - 30/1/2008 4:08 PM
A little note/discussion about the possible conflict between the ATV launch and the 1J/A mission launch.
Per the shuttle FRR they said there might be some slide in the launch shedule for STS 123 to make way for launch and docking of ATV. Not firm date until the lauch of ATV. Further info on ATV Thursday at briefing.
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/30/2008 11:20 pm
Quote
Cosmos27 - 30/1/2008 6:50 PMQuotepsloss - 30/1/2008 4:08 PM
A little note/discussion about the possible conflict between the ATV launch and the 1J/A mission launch.
Per the shuttle FRR they said there might be some slide in the launch shedule for STS 123 to make way for launch and docking of ATV. Not firm date until the lauch of ATV. Further info on ATV Thursday at briefing.
What briefing is that?
Post by: psloss on 01/30/2008 11:28 pm
11:15 a.m. - NASA Aeronautics Technical Seminar on "Synthetic and Enhanced Vision Systems and Equivalent Visual Operations"
- HQ (Education Channel)
1 p.m. - Replay of MESSENGER M1 Flyby News Conference - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
2 p.m. - Replay of ISS Expedition 16 Post-Spacewalk Briefing - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
3 p.m. - Replay of STS-122 Post-Flight Readiness Review Briefing - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
4 p.m. - ISS Automated Transfer Vehicle Preflight Briefing - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
Post by: Cosmos27 on 01/30/2008 11:33 pm
Quote
Trekkie07 - 30/1/2008 7:20 PMQuoteCosmos27 - 30/1/2008 6:50 PMQuotepsloss - 30/1/2008 4:08 PM
A little note/discussion about the possible conflict between the ATV launch and the 1J/A mission launch.
Per the shuttle FRR they said there might be some slide in the launch shedule for STS 123 to make way for launch and docking of ATV. No firm date until the lauch of ATV. Further info on ATV Thursday at briefing.
What briefing is that?
Todays STS-122 Post-Flight Readiness Review Briefing!
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 01/30/2008 11:55 pm
Quote
psloss - 30/1/2008 7:28 PM
January 31, Thursday
11:15 a.m. - NASA Aeronautics Technical Seminar on "Synthetic and Enhanced Vision Systems and Equivalent Visual Operations"
- HQ (Education Channel)
1 p.m. - Replay of MESSENGER M1 Flyby News Conference - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
2 p.m. - Replay of ISS Expedition 16 Post-Spacewalk Briefing - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
3 p.m. - Replay of STS-122 Post-Flight Readiness Review Briefing - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
4 p.m. - ISS Automated Transfer Vehicle Preflight Briefing - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
Thanks psloss. I was unaware there were briefings tomorrow.
Furthermore, a quick question. Is the two day extension to Atlantis' mission, discussed prior to the December scrubs, still on the table or have they been discarded since the new SARJ information came out?
Thanks in advance.
Post by: rdale on 01/31/2008 01:56 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/31/2008 08:32 am
Quote
rdale - 31/1/2008 2:56 AM
Good news on the weather front - next week the pattern we're in is overall dry and mild...
Good, we should start a launch weather thread nearer the time, as you see fit.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 01/31/2008 02:11 pm
And to note, I've added some processing notes for this morning to the article. Main element relates to the continued freon loop leaks checks later today.
Post by: mceddiemac on 01/31/2008 04:43 pm
Quote
rdale - 30/1/2008 9:56 PMAny preliminary information on the TAL sites?
Good news on the weather front - next week the pattern we're in is overall dry and mild...
Post by: rdale on 01/31/2008 05:07 pm
Post by: eeergo on 01/31/2008 08:09 pm
There's a special "more accurate" (whatever that means :) ) forecast for Spain because of the Carnival holidays. It reaches until the 7th, and while probably Rob's right and forecasting here may not be so trustworthy, it's worth a look (it's in Spanish, I'll translate the interesting parts below): http://www.inm.es/wwb/predi/enportada/p51tesp1.pdf
The atmosphere is probably going to stabilize again over all Spain, with the high pressure area centered in the Peninsula's interior. In the first days of the period [Feb 5&6] a side section of a cold front could brush past Galicia and the Cantabric seashore, with a few precipitations and moderate to strong winds in the southwest. The mean day temperatures will rise, and there will be weak frosting in the morning, in the Peninsula's interior.
The "less acurate", usually issued 7-day long forecast also shows good weather for the days around the 7th, both in Moron and Zaragoza. Wouldn't trust these last ones very much this early, though.
Post by: iloco on 01/31/2008 10:13 pm
Quote
rdale - 31/1/2008 12:07 PM
No, foreign stuff is much more difficult to come by for long ranges... US clearly leads the world in this regard.
Now that's funny!
U.S. models are global models. The Euro, ECMWF, Ukie, and GGEM are all good models.
Maybe you just can't pull long range off "The Weather Channel" Spanish edition.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 01/31/2008 10:33 pm
Post by: rdale on 01/31/2008 10:42 pm
Quote
iloco - 31/1/2008 6:13 PM
U.S. models are global models. The Euro, ECMWF, Ukie, and GGEM are all good models.
The Euro (ECMWF) is clearly the best in the global model category... What I mean is that they don't allow 99% of its data to be sent to the public unless you pay. A _LOT_ of money. I can see basic surface features and that's it, but it's not much help overall. Sort of like saying "NASA PAO does a great job getting info out." Yes, they get info, but if you're looking for meat you go to L2. ECMWF is a good model, but the meat costs too much and I'd never rely on just the basic plots they give out.
The US is the only country that completely gives away ALL of their data for free. Canada is starting to get there, and I like their global model, but it doesn't go out to that timeframe yet.
Post by: DaveS on 01/31/2008 10:47 pm
Post by: on 01/31/2008 11:07 pm
Post by: DaveS on 01/31/2008 11:10 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 1/2/2008 1:07 AMWhy don't you check the NASA TV schedule?
If the launch is go on saturday by the managers will the crew arrive at the cape on Monday February 4, at 10:30 a.m. or p.m. EST?
February 4, Monday
9 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
10:30 p.m. - STS-122 Crew Arrival - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
February 5, Tuesday
10 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
1 p.m. - STS-122 Launch Readiness News Conference - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
Feb. 6, Wednesday
10 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channel)
1 p.m. - ESA Columbus Module Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channel)
Feb. 7, Thursday
5:15 a.m. - STS-122 Fueling Coverage Begins - KSC (All Channels)
9:15 a.m. - ISS Progress 28 Docking Coverage (Docking is scheduled for 9:33 a.m.) - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
9:45 a.m. - STS-122 Launch Coverage Begins - KSC (All Channels)
2:45 p.m. - STS-122 Launch (All Channels)
Post by: on 02/01/2008 12:50 am
7:45 a.m. - ISS Expedition 16 In-Flight Interviews with Sky News, Ireland and Discover Science, Ireland - JSC (Public and Media Channels)
9 a.m. - STS-122 Countdown Status Briefing - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
10:30 p.m. - STS-122 Crew Arrival - KSC (Public and Media Channels)
2:30 p.m. - NASA Budget Briefing - HQ (Public and Media Channels)
one of the times here seems to be out of place. I was thinking that the crew arrival may be ment to be at 10:30 a.m. and not at 10:30 p.m.
Post by: DaveS on 02/01/2008 08:26 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/01/2008 10:57 am
I'll aim to round up a ton of info from L2 into a new article within the next few hours, then use that to update status as we go (as well as here).
There is another problem, but currently they are fly as-is on that too (Fuel Cell 2).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/01/2008 01:39 pm
Never thought I'd write a headline like this one ;)
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5345
Post by: CTdave on 02/01/2008 02:10 pm
:o
Post by: ChrisC on 02/01/2008 03:24 pm
Post by: Rob in KC on 02/01/2008 03:49 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/2/2008 8:39 AM
Here's a round up of some of the L2 info. The rest is an engineering discussion and thus remains in L2.
Never thought I'd write a headline like this one ;)
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5345
I liked this:
"Test results, noted on processing information Friday morning, continued the positive theme that the hose appears to be in good shape, despite its shape, with no sign of damage that would be a concern to engineers."
Do you do that on purpose? :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/01/2008 03:58 pm
Daily PRCB meeting now. Expected to pass STS-122 to continue through to launch (pending nothing bad happens with the engineer and his pole on Monday).
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/01/2008 05:35 pm
Three plans are drawn up on resulting retract.
1) Press to S0007
2) R&R at the pad (one month delay).
3) R&R in OPF (two month delay).
Huge presentation of the situation was presented to today's Daily PRCB, so will probably do another article.
Fuel Cell 2 has been cleared for flight.
Presentations going into L2.
Post by: Lee Jay on 02/01/2008 05:44 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 1/2/2008 11:35 AM
Hose cleared for flight (based on good retract on Monday). Specialist engineer from Boeing (Huntington Beach) will be flown out to perform the assist with the long pole/stick.
LOL. [Global email at Boeing] If you've had graduate level "poking a hose with a stick", please respond to this email for a special assignment in Florida. Thank you. -- The management. :laugh:
Post by: trlstyle on 02/01/2008 08:16 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/01/2008 08:54 pm
Quote
trlstyle - 1/2/2008 4:16 PM
I'm entering launch fever again! I hope Monday's closing of the payload doors produces nothing of concern.
Has been cleared for flight. :)
Post by: DaveS on 02/01/2008 09:12 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 1/2/2008 10:54 PMOn the condition the hose retracts nicely into it's box. If it don't, no launch.Quotetrlstyle - 1/2/2008 4:16 PM
I'm entering launch fever again! I hope Monday's closing of the payload doors produces nothing of concern.
Has been cleared for flight. :)
Post by: CTdave on 02/01/2008 10:01 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/01/2008 10:05 pm
Quote
CTdave - 1/2/2008 11:01 PM
Is that hose steel braided? If so, it might not be that easy to "poke" into place. I've worked with aircraft steel braid hoses before & once they have been kinked, they are not that easy to straighten out
Still going through the large L2 presentation from this afternoon for the purpose of another article (previewing the retract, which is vital. That goes wrong, no launch)...but this might help you from one of the images in that presentation:
Post by: sts1canada on 02/02/2008 12:08 am
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/mission_schedule.html
Richard
Post by: sts1canada on 02/02/2008 12:27 am
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/203212main_sts122_presskit2.pdf
It is about 5.5 MB and it is a faster PDF file to scan through & view compared to the first revision of this press kit released in late November 2007 which was 14.5 MB in size!
Richard
Post by: sts1canada on 02/02/2008 12:36 am
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/currentglance.html#COUNT
Richard
Post by: ChrisC on 02/02/2008 02:07 am
And you currently have 666 posts. You should correct that :)
Post by: jacqmans on 02/02/2008 03:10 am
laboratory
Vehicle: Atlantis (OV-104)
Location: Launch Pad 39A
Launch Date: Feb. 7
Crew: Frick, Poindexter, Schlegel, Eyharts, Love, Melvin, Walheim
Inclination/Orbit Altitude: 51.6 degrees/122 nautical miles
Launch Pad 39A
- Launch countdown preparations continue.
- Call to stations is scheduled for Feb. 4 at 4:30 p.m.
- Payload bay door radiator retract hose issue fix under way
- Hose located on starboard aft
- X-rays show hose is in good condition and no leaks were detected
- Engineers designed tool to guide flex hose back into storage box
- Technician performing work tested the method Thursday with success
- Payload bay doors scheduled to close using method on Sunday
- Orbiter aft closeout was completed Thursday
- Leak check was performed at the purge port of fuel cell No. 2, where
no leaks were detected
- Flight crew stow operations were conducted
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 02/02/2008 01:56 pm
Post by: psloss on 02/02/2008 02:19 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 2/2/2008 9:56 AMDetails can be found by reading the stories published on this site. Chris posted details about in-flight mitigation possibilities in a story here; he also posted in this thread with links:
Launch fever. Lets all hope that the hose issue is taken care of on Monday. This may have been in a previous thread, but if they are having the hose problem now, what happens when they are prepairing to land and close the doors. What if the same kink occurs then? :o
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11113&start=706#M236698
Post by: JohnV on 02/02/2008 02:23 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 2/2/2008 8:56 AM
Launch fever. Lets all hope that the hose issue is taken care of on Monday. This may have been in a previous thread, but if they are having the hose problem now, what happens when they are prepairing to land and close the doors. What if the same kink occurs then? :o
I believe it is a non-issue. Once the doors are closed for landing, the radiators are not used. Even if the kink was bad enough to restrict flow at that point, the system is isolated and poses no risk or problem.
At launch, as I understand it, the concern is the 'loop' of the kink vibrating enough to cause a leak. And even if it does leak, it is not a safety of flight issue. Reduced cooling would perhaps force them to land early, but would not endanger the crew.
From what I have read here, I gather that Discovery flew at least 2 flights with a similar problem and never had a leak or other problem. That hose has been removed, put through door cycles, tested in other ways, and it still does not leak.
I don't think it is Launch Fever as you put it. Rather this is just one of those nagging problems that you wish weren't there, but are not a reason to postpone a trip. Like a worn out windshield wiper on your car; it is an irritation that you know might force you to cut a drive short to get a new one, but you go anyway because it probably won't be an issue.
Post by: psloss on 02/02/2008 02:52 pm
Quote
JohnV - 2/2/2008 10:23 AMThe success of each mission may not be as high a priority as crew safety, but it is critical at this point in time. If they had to isolate a coolant loop early and come home with the payload, that's a mission that would have to be flown twice. At least currently there's no plans to buy more tanks and if a mission is aborted it cuts into fixed hardware reserves.
I believe it is a non-issue. Once the doors are closed for landing, the radiators are not used. Even if the kink was bad enough to restrict flow at that point, the system is isolated and poses no risk or problem.
At launch, as I understand it, the concern is the 'loop' of the kink vibrating enough to cause a leak. And even if it does leak, it is not a safety of flight issue. Reduced cooling would perhaps force them to land early, but would not endanger the crew.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/02/2008 03:04 pm
Anyhoo, I'll be writing up the excellent presentation from yesterday's PRCB as a lead up to Monday's PLBD closure and hopefully that will show anyone who thinks they are just brushing this issue under the carpet that it's anything but.
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 03:05 pm
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 03:10 pm
Quote
JohnV - 2/2/2008 10:23 AM
From what I have read here, I gather that Discovery flew at least 2 flights with a similar problem and never had a leak or other problem. That hose has been removed, put through door cycles, tested in other ways, and it still does not leak.
I don't think it is Launch Fever as you put it. Rather this is just one of those nagging problems that you wish weren't there, but are not a reason to postpone a trip. Like a worn out windshield wiper on your car; it is an irritation that you know might force you to cut a drive short to get a new one, but you go anyway because it probably won't be an issue.
Where I have I heard that logic before?
Many earlier shuttles experienced O-ring erosion and never had any problems
Many Orbiters experienced debris hits and never had any problems.
Care to revise your statement?
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 03:12 pm
Quote
Lawntonlookirs - 2/2/2008 9:56 AM
Launch fever. Lets all hope that the hose issue is taken care of on Monday. This may have been in a previous thread, but if they are having the hose problem now, what happens when they are prepairing to land and close the doors. What if the same kink occurs then? :o
No problem because they are landing
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 03:16 pm
It is not launch fever, it is not being ignored.
Yet, it is not a non issue
Post by: rdale on 02/02/2008 03:32 pm
Quote
Jim - 2/2/2008 11:10 AM
Where I have I heard that logic before?
Many earlier shuttles experienced O-ring erosion and never had any problems
How are you able to compare the hose kink with O-ring erosion? Is there something I'm missing?
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 03:46 pm
Quote
rdale - 2/2/2008 11:32 AMQuoteJim - 2/2/2008 11:10 AM
Where I have I heard that logic before?
Many earlier shuttles experienced O-ring erosion and never had any problems
How are you able to compare the hose kink with O-ring erosion? Is there something I'm missing?
The general attitude "we flew with it before therefore it is ok to keep flying the same way"
Post by: rdale on 02/02/2008 03:58 pm
Quote
Jim - 2/2/2008 11:46 AM
The general attitude "we flew with it before therefore it is ok to keep flying the same way"
I don't think that attitude is present in this case either, but you certainly are entitled to that opinion. I'm not sure how you got it - but it's probably worthy of a different thread if you want to point out how that's at play :cool:
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/02/2008 04:20 pm
PLBD closure with the pole/stick methord classed as Sunday, though we have engineers who think it'll be Momday - we'll see.
The tech with the pole is not Boeing, but USA and KSC based. He went to Huntington Beach (Boeing, California) to practise the methord (as seen in the image used in the latest article on the news site).
New article will be later tonight now with a full, expansive overview, based on that wonderful presentation from yesterday.
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 04:48 pm
Quote
rdale - 2/2/2008 11:58 AMQuoteJim - 2/2/2008 11:46 AM
The general attitude "we flew with it before therefore it is ok to keep flying the same way"
I don't think that attitude is present in this case either, but you certainly are entitled to that opinion. I'm not sure how you got it - but it's probably worthy of a different thread if you want to point out how that's at play :cool:
I was referring JohnV's post and his slant
Post by: JohnV on 02/02/2008 07:35 pm
Quote
Jim - 2/2/2008 10:16 AM
Both ends of the spectrum within a few posts. Read the details!
It is not launch fever, it is not being ignored.
Yet, it is not a non issue
This is the point I was trying to make, guess I just was doing it the hard way. :)
They have looked, and continue to look, at the problem. It is not being ignored, but is starting to be understood well enough that it is becoming clear that even though it is not as designed, it is just fine--just like the worn windshield wiper.
EDIT: I don't think the situation is comparable at all with the O-rings. Instead of looking at it and saying 'we've seen little tongues of flame but nothing has happened so it's ok', they are taking a solid engineering approach and making sure there isn't something to bite them.
In the end, making an informed decision that even though there is an acknowledged issue, it is not a problem that has a realistic likelihood of causing a problem. And by saying that, I mean that the risk of flying with this issue is less than risks accepted as part of flying the shuttle (or any other spacecraft) on any day.
Post by: Jim on 02/02/2008 08:07 pm
Quote
JohnV - 2/2/2008 3:35 PM
And by saying that, I mean that the risk of flying with this issue is less than risks accepted as part of flying the shuttle (or any other spacecraft) on any day.
No, that is why they are fixing it
Post by: JohnV on 02/02/2008 11:19 pm
Quote
Jim - 2/2/2008 3:07 PMQuoteJohnV - 2/2/2008 3:35 PM
And by saying that, I mean that the risk of flying with this issue is less than risks accepted as part of flying the shuttle (or any other spacecraft) on any day.
No, that is why they are fixing it
We may just be tossing semantics back and forth. In my mind they aren't fixing it, they are mitigating the kink for launch. But from what I have read here, based on the Discovery hose the kink will come back when the doors are cycled again.
When they fix it, they will replace the hose without one with a kink in the steel braid. We probably have the same idea, just using different words...
Post by: madmardy on 02/03/2008 09:07 am
Quote
JohnV - 2/2/2008 3:23 PM
I believe it is a non-issue. Once the doors are closed for landing, the radiators are not used. Even if the kink was bad enough to restrict flow at that point, the system is isolated and poses no risk or problem.
.
But the RAD system IS used after door closure
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/03/2008 12:58 pm
Based on the superb 52 page presentation on L2. Included some screenshot images into the article.
Remember, if you're on another forum, URL ACCREDIT US. Don't wait for someone to say "where are you getting this info from?" before saying NSF or something vague, in passing. And don't copy posts or info from this site without saying where you got it from with a URL. Some "space sim" sites posters are acting like it's their own info, when it's literally copied and pasted from this site!
You are being noticed by regulars to both sites and they are letting me know. I will ban you.
Post by: Davie OPF on 02/03/2008 01:33 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 3/2/2008 7:58 AM
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5346
Based on the superb 52 page presentation on L2. Included some screenshot images into the article.
Excellent report.
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 02/03/2008 01:36 pm
Or hasn't it been released yet?
Post by: psloss on 02/03/2008 01:38 pm
Quote
haywoodfloyd - 3/2/2008 9:36 AMA lot of the second level or lower level links haven't changed; this is probably the same:
Anyone know where they are hiding the TV Schedule for STs-122 on that new NASA Web site..you know, the Excel spreadsheet?
Or hasn't it been released yet?
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/mission_schedule.html
(The direct PDF link hasn't changed as I pulled Rev. 0 this morning with the same URL.)
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 02/03/2008 01:42 pm
Quote
psloss - 3/2/2008 9:38 AMQuotehaywoodfloyd - 3/2/2008 9:36 AMA lot of the second level or lower level links haven't changed; this is probably the same:
Anyone know where they are hiding the TV Schedule for STs-122 on that new NASA Web site..you know, the Excel spreadsheet?
Or hasn't it been released yet?
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/mission_schedule.html
(The direct PDF link hasn't changed as I pulled Rev. 0 this morning with the same URL.)
Thanks psloss. Should have used my Favorites link.
Post by: psloss on 02/03/2008 01:51 pm
Quote
haywoodfloyd - 3/2/2008 9:42 AMI would suggest bookmarking Harwood's:
Thanks psloss. Should have used my Favorites link.
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/currentglance.html#TVSKED
And veering more off-topic, I Googled for pages linking to that NASA.gov link and found an interesting code project. (Never heard of it before.) Not sure if this has already been posted in the forums or not; anyway, for those MS Outlook users who are adventurous:
http://www.codeplex.com/NasaStsTvSchedule/
Quote
The NASA Space Shuttle TV Schedule Transfer to Outlook Calendar provides an easy method for you to include NASA's Space Shuttle mission schedules in your Outlook Calendar.
It reads the NASA TV Schedule published by NASA on their web site, in an Excel spreadsheet, for Space Shuttle missions. It can also transfer the TV schedule of events to your Outlook Calendar as Appointment Items.
Post by: Firestarter on 02/03/2008 02:31 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 3/2/2008 7:58 AM
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5346
Great read, thanks for that. Also appreciate the images!
Post by: Andy L on 02/03/2008 04:12 pm
Post by: ChrisC on 02/03/2008 06:20 pm
"Payload bay doors scheduled to close using method on Sunday"
Is that work still on for today, or tomorrow? When?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/03/2008 06:33 pm
Quote
ChrisC - 3/2/2008 7:20 PM
jacqman's most recent STS-122 post here (on Friday night) said:
"Payload bay doors scheduled to close using method on Sunday"
Is that work still on for today, or tomorrow? When?
A per live coverage on L2...Around 8pm tonight. (updating key points into the article on site).
Post by: Super George on 02/03/2008 07:11 pm
Quote
Firestarter - 3/2/2008 9:31 AMQuoteChris Bergin - 3/2/2008 7:58 AM
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5346
Great read, thanks for that. Also appreciate the images!
Yeah, really good read and full of info. Really enjoy being able to have good coverage of the Shuttle program, finally.
Post by: on 02/04/2008 12:04 am
Post by: on 02/04/2008 01:27 am
Post by: Lee Jay on 02/04/2008 01:41 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 02:14 am
Will modify article on site, but Atlantis is GO to proceed into S0007 launch countdown! :cool:
Post by: Lee Jay on 02/04/2008 02:17 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/04/2008 02:27 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 3/2/2008 10:14 PM
As per L2, SUCCESS!!!!
Will modify article on site, but Atlantis is GO to proceed into S0007 launch countdown! :cool:
Wonderful news. Now, let's hope everything else goes smooth in S0007. ;)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 02/04/2008 02:27 am
Post by: SpikeSpiegel on 02/04/2008 02:28 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/04/2008 02:33 am
Quote
SpikeSpiegel - 3/2/2008 10:28 PM
Hot damn! So we looking at the 7th right now? Is it too early to start the cheering thread? Argh! I want to take my two boys to see a launch. Guess its not going to be this one.
Cheerleading thread posted here. And yes, launching on the 7th, barring everything goes well with S0007 and the count. :)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 02:36 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5346
Only took eight cycles to close the doors, with six "prods" with the special tool on the end of the pole. Retraction was smooth and may not of needed the tool after all (which is good as it shows it might all go well during closure on orbit too).
Post by: CTdave on 02/04/2008 02:55 am
I just re-booked our flights (4th or 5th time?? LOL!) so I'll have my wife, two children and NASA VIP invitations in hand. We get to Cocoa Beach Wednesday night.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 03:01 am
What happens next is we keep this update thread going through S0007 up to launch day, when we head into launch attempt and flight day specific update sections.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 11:56 am
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 01:00 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 01:00 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 01:10 pm
However due to the coldfront that Rob mentioned they're going with a 60% chance that KSC weather prohibiting launch on Thursday.
KSC weather will improve greatly Friday and Saturday, with 20% chance of KSC weather prohibiting launch on both days.
Post by: psloss on 02/04/2008 01:24 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 01:37 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 02:20 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 02:33 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 02:34 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 02:34 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 02:38 pm
Post by: trlstyle on 02/04/2008 04:03 pm
Post by: Chandonn on 02/04/2008 05:32 pm
Quote
trlstyle - 4/2/2008 12:03 PM
FANTASTIC! Ill be watching the weather closely - i really hope a Thursday launch will work, but i guess Friday or Saturday would not be the worst thing.
It's still early enough in the week and Florida weather does change rapidly. There used to be scrubs based on the forecast, only to find the weather picture perfect on what would have been the launch day (one of the Challenger (51-L) opportunities comes to mind...).
Post by: rdale on 02/04/2008 05:37 pm
Post by: STSFan10 on 02/04/2008 07:44 pm
Post by: Lawntonlookirs on 02/04/2008 07:58 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 07:58 pm
Yes, it's 5pm Eastern. 10pm UK.
Post by: DaveS on 02/04/2008 09:00 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/04/2008 09:00 pm
T-43 hours and counting! Space Shuttle Countdown Portal located here.
STS-122 Milestones page located here, where I get my information.
Just some of the things to happen during the T-43 hours and counting mark, for today.
- Countdown begins at the T-43 hour mark (5 p.m.)
- Begin final vehicle and facility closeouts for launch
- Check out backup flight systems
- Review flight software stored in mass memory units and display systems
- Load backup flight system software into Atlantis' general purpose computers
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 09:02 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/04/2008 09:11 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5347
Post by: psloss on 02/04/2008 09:45 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=170
Post by: psloss on 02/04/2008 10:12 pm
(I'm assuming that John44 will have that video up on his site soon.)
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/04/2008 10:30 pm
"At this point, we ran it down, and it went right in, in California."
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/04/2008 10:32 pm
"Went right in!"
Post by: ntschke on 02/04/2008 11:14 pm
Man, I can't believe they made these poor guys work during the Super Bowl!
Good to know that a complex tool such as "thelong stick" can still work wonders, even on the most complicated machine the world has ever known.
Post by: sts1canada on 02/05/2008 01:33 am
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/currentglance.html#WINDOWS
Richard
Post by: litton4 on 02/05/2008 06:45 am
Quote
Chris Bergin - 4/2/2008 3:36 AM
Only took eight cycles to close the doors...
What was meant by "cycles"?
Do you mean that they closed and opened (...and closed!) the door 8 times, before they were happy with the hose behaviour, or was it just 8 10-degree increments as mentioned in the article?
Post by: litton4 on 02/05/2008 06:52 am
Quote
ntschke - 4/2/2008 12:14 AMMan, I can't believe they made these poor guys work during the Super Bowl!
Good to know that a complex tool such as "thelong stick" can still work wonders, even on the most complicated machine the world has ever known.
Look at what they did on ISS last year - repair a $600M solar array with nothing more than 5 wire ties!
Post by: uko on 02/05/2008 08:33 am
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/05/2008 10:27 am
Quote
uko - 5/2/2008 9:33 AM
In the status briefing they said, it was "8 increments".. I suppose it means that they made 8 stops during closure to look at the hose and make sure everything is ok
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5346 - the article 30 minutes after door closure:
"Only eight door closure cycles were required......as the doors were closed."
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/05/2008 12:26 pm
We're currently T-28 hours and 34 minutes and counting on the clock. Just some of the things going on today.
Launch-2 Days
- Middeck and flight-deck platform removal complete (1 a.m.)
- Complete preparations to load power reactant storage and distribution system (4 a.m.)
- Activate and test navigational systems (6 a.m.)
- Flight deck preliminary inspections complete (9 a.m.)
- Enter first built-in hold at T-27 hours for a duration of 4 hours (9 a.m.)
- Clear launch pad of all non-essential personnel
- Perform test of the vehicle's pyrotechnic initiator controllers
- Resume countdown (1 p.m.)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/05/2008 01:50 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 01:58 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 02:01 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 02:03 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 04:56 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 05:00 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 05:04 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 05:05 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 05:06 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/05/2008 05:09 pm
Post by: Chandonn on 02/06/2008 12:56 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 01:06 am
T-19 Hours and HOLDING for four hours!
- Enter 4-hour built-in hold at T-19 hours (9 p.m.)
- Begin operations to load cryogenic reactants into Atlantis' fuel cell storage tanks (8:30 p.m.)
- Demate orbiter mid-body umbilical unit (9:30 p.m.)
- Resume orbiter and ground support equipment closeouts
- Resume countdown (1 a.m.)
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 01:09 am
EDIT: Got an image from a few hours ago, that's clear, for comparison.
Post by: psloss on 02/06/2008 01:30 am
Quote
Ford Mustang - 5/2/2008 9:09 PMThey were there earlier...
Also, looks like one set of Xenon lights are on, and in the second image, looks like a few vehicles are there. Not sure why it's a bad picture.. that's the way it is on the site. Perhaps the cryo-trucks?
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 01:56 am
Post by: lsullivan411 on 02/06/2008 05:00 am
Launch-1 Day
- Resume countdown (1 a.m.)
- Final preparations of the shuttle's three main engines for main propellant tanking (1 a.m.)
- Begin filling pad sound suppression system water tank (6 a.m.)
- Close out the tail service masts on the mobile launcher platform
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 07:16 am
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5348
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 12:30 pm
Clock still counting, currently at T-11h 30m.
Just an overview of things to come today. All seems well for RSS Retract tonight at 6 PM EST. Images and a .GIF coming soon after! :)
- Begin star tracker functional checks (8:50 a.m.)
- Pad sound suppression system water tank filling complete (9 a.m.)
- Enter planned hold at T-11 hours for 13 hours, 20 minutes (9 a.m.)
- Activate the orbiter's inertial measurement units
- Activate the orbiter's communications systems
- Install film in numerous cameras on the launch pad (9:55 a.m.)
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 12:53 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 01:02 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 02:39 pm
SSV PIC resistance and S&A device verfications are complete.
PRSD LO2 and LH2 load began yesterday at 1452L and was completed at 1929L, Tuesday.
GN2 to air changeover was completed at 2026L.
SSME final preparations are underway and TSM securing to follow.
OMBUU demates and flight cap installation were complete.
Dock seal deflation completed.
Issues worked: During ECLSS switch configuration, when cabin relief valve B was cycled to Enable, proper talkback indication was not received. Cycled and no longer an issue.
Issues being worked include: SRB aft skirt purge temperature dropped -Troubleshooting began after PRSD loading, with engineering evaluation continuing.
Post by: shuttlefan on 02/06/2008 03:14 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 6/2/2008 9:39 AM
A bit of a summary from L2, more to come:
SSV PIC resistance and S&A device verfications are complete.
PRSD LO2 and LH2 load began yesterday at 1452L and was completed at 1929L, Tuesday.
GN2 to air changeover was completed at 2026L.
SSME final preparations are underway and TSM securing to follow.
OMBUU demates and flight cap installation were complete.
Dock seal deflation completed.
Issues worked: During ECLSS switch configuration, when cabin relief valve B was cycled to Enable, proper talkback indication was not received. Cycled and no longer an issue.
Issues being worked include: SRB aft skirt purge temperature dropped -Troubleshooting began after PRSD loading, with engineering evaluation continuing.
Would the SRB aft skirt temp. issue be a constraint for launch?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 03:29 pm
Quote
shuttlefan - 6/2/2008 4:14 PMQuoteChris Bergin - 6/2/2008 9:39 AM
A bit of a summary from L2, more to come:
SSV PIC resistance and S&A device verfications are complete.
PRSD LO2 and LH2 load began yesterday at 1452L and was completed at 1929L, Tuesday.
GN2 to air changeover was completed at 2026L.
SSME final preparations are underway and TSM securing to follow.
OMBUU demates and flight cap installation were complete.
Dock seal deflation completed.
Issues worked: During ECLSS switch configuration, when cabin relief valve B was cycled to Enable, proper talkback indication was not received. Cycled and no longer an issue.
Issues being worked include: SRB aft skirt purge temperature dropped -Troubleshooting began after PRSD loading, with engineering evaluation continuing.
Would the SRB aft skirt temp. issue be a constraint for launch?
No, as it's behaved since and during troubleshooting. So right now it's ok. If it started to play up again, then we'll see. Wouldn't worry about it whilst it's ok.
Post by: jacqmans on 02/06/2008 04:36 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 6/2/2008 2:53 PM
GVA Extended over the top of the ET.
It's up again ?
Post by: psloss on 02/06/2008 05:15 pm
Quote
jacqmans - 6/2/2008 12:36 PMYes, that's typical. IIRC, the hood provides access for inspections and it may be lowered for fit checks and for that. (It's probably indicated in the S0007 timeline on L2.)QuoteFord Mustang - 6/2/2008 2:53 PM
GVA Extended over the top of the ET.
It's up again ?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 05:52 pm
Post by: el_nino on 02/06/2008 05:54 pm
Post by: TFGQ on 02/06/2008 05:55 pm
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 05:57 pm
Medical helicopter en route apparently, which I don't like the sound of, but could be a precaution. Don't want to speculate.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 06:01 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 06:03 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 6/2/2008 8:01 PMHelo has landed:
Engineer was on a ladder and fell off and possibly had a significant injury, we're told. Helicopter will land on pad surface to pick him up. Doesn't appear it is stopping any other work.
Post by: TFGQ on 02/06/2008 06:04 pm
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 02/06/2008 06:05 pm
Post by: VB94 on 02/06/2008 06:06 pm
Here's the main page:
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/
Post by: ShuttleDiscovery on 02/06/2008 06:07 pm
Quote
VB94 - 6/2/2008 7:06 PM
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/chan4large.jpg
Damn, dosen't work for me! Can someone post screenshots of this so I can see what's happening?
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 06:08 pm
Quote
ShuttleDiscovery - 6/2/2008 8:07 PMNot much currently.QuoteVB94 - 6/2/2008 7:06 PM
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/chan4large.jpg
Damn, dosen't work for me! Can someone post screenshots of this so I can see what's happening?
Post by: VB94 on 02/06/2008 06:11 pm
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/
Post by: yorky10 on 02/06/2008 06:52 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 06:54 pm
Quote
yorky10 - 6/2/2008 8:52 PM6 pm EST(2300 UTC).
What time RSS Retract?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 07:32 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 07:34 pm
Quote
Chris Bergin - 6/2/2008 3:32 PM
Engineer who fell does not appear to be serious.
That's good news. Thanks. :)
Post by: Orbiter Obvious on 02/06/2008 07:47 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 08:46 pm
Quote
Orbiter Obvious - 6/2/2008 3:47 PM
Will we be starting the launch day thread in time for RSS retract or tanking?
Launch day thread will be a few hours before tanking, when the news starts coming in. At least, that's how it's been since I've been here.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 09:02 pm
Post by: on 02/06/2008 09:47 pm
Post by: psloss on 02/06/2008 09:50 pm
Quote
Justin Wheat - 6/2/2008 5:47 PMIt depends on the situation. They did say that "three in a row" is up for consideration.
If they have to scrub tomorrow (which I hope they don't), will they do a 24 hour turnaround and if needed another 24 hour turnaround? Can they do two 24 hour turnarounds within two days?
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 09:53 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 09:57 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 10:01 pm
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 10:02 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 10:03 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 6/2/2008 6:01 PM
I'm not sure about the shot, normally Camera 070 is used. Will be getting whatever I can get though!
Well, they'd best adjust the camera view soon, or at least adjust this one for low light conditions! 10 more minutes and we won't be able to see anything...
Post by: psloss on 02/06/2008 10:03 pm
Quote
dember - 6/2/2008 5:53 PMIf they were to do "three in a row" then that would be Thursday-Friday-Saturday, which was said to be up for consideration. But, it depends on the situation they get (if they get there). I thought Steve Payne said it pretty well when someone asked him about "if X happens, then is that an automatic scrub?" He said "nothing is automatic," which is generalizing things, but is applicable for elements like the weather and for decisions that don't have to be immediate.
If they scrub tomorrow and Friday they will do a 48 hour turnaround to top off commodities right?
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 10:07 pm
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 10:19 pm
Post by: RafaelCE on 02/06/2008 10:20 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 6/2/2008 5:01 PM
I'm not sure about the shot, normally Camera 070 is used. Will be getting whatever I can get though!
Camera 070 is available as sreaming, in the following link: http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/
Tip (Realplayer required): click the "KSC Payload Processing Feed" link
It will call RealPlayer and show camera 070 live stereaming. Don't know when they will zoom out to allow seeing RSS retract. Wish they will soon.
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 10:21 pm
Quote
dember - 6/2/2008 11:19 PM
Early weather scrub maybe? I don't think it would happen this early though.
No. All retraction of the RSS preps are complete.
They will tank come what may with the weather....given they want to test the ECO system.
Post by: Chandonn on 02/06/2008 10:22 pm
Quote
dember - 6/2/2008 6:19 PM
Early weather scrub maybe? I don't think it would happen this early though.
RSS retract isn't always on time... sometimes they have equipment problems
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 10:22 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 10:24 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 10:25 pm
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 10:26 pm
Quote
generic_handle_42 - 6/2/2008 6:25 PM
Definite signs of motion.
On which, 070 or RSS? I don't see any with RSS, just lighting changes...
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 10:28 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 7/2/2008 12:24 AMNo. They just reset the light sensitivity of the cameras. You'll know when the xenons are on.
Xenon lights ON!!!
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 10:28 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 6/2/2008 6:26 PMQuotegeneric_handle_42 - 6/2/2008 6:25 PM
Definite signs of motion.
On which, 070 or RSS? I don't see any with RSS, just lighting changes...
The weather protection panel that covers part of the bottom of the orbiter is retracted. Although I don't know if that is done in advance.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 10:30 pm
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 10:32 pm
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 10:32 pm
Quote
generic_handle_42 - 7/2/2008 12:28 AMIt is. They were retracted several hours ago.
The weather protection panel that covers part of the bottom of the orbiter is retracted. Although I don't know if that is done in advance.
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 10:33 pm
Quote
DaveS - 6/2/2008 6:32 PMQuotegeneric_handle_42 - 7/2/2008 12:28 AMIt is. They were retracted several hours ago.
The weather protection panel that covers part of the bottom of the orbiter is retracted. Although I don't know if that is done in advance.
Well, in that case, we are still waiting for first motion. I stand (er... sit) corrected.
Post by: collectSPACE on 02/06/2008 10:57 pm
First motion is targeted for 7:15 p.m. EST. Xenon lights are not on and won't be until after retraction.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/06/2008 10:59 pm
Quote
collectSPACE - 6/2/2008 6:57 PM
Greetings from Pad 39A... or more specifically, inside a bus sitting outside the perimeter gate, hiding from the mosquitoes.
First motion is targeted for 7:15 p.m. EST. Xenon lights are not on and won't be until after retraction.
Thank you much for that information. Didn't know what lights, but she's definitely lit up!
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 10:59 pm
Quote
collectSPACE - 6/2/2008 6:57 PM
Greetings from Pad 39A... or more specifically, inside a bus sitting outside the perimeter gate, hiding from the mosquitoes.
I envy you right now.
Quote
First motion is targeted for 7:15 p.m. EST. Xenon lights are not on and won't be until after retraction.
Any specific reason for the delay?
Post by: collectSPACE on 02/06/2008 11:03 pm
Quote
Ford Mustang - 6/2/2008 5:59 PMThose would be the stadium lights. The procession is pad lights, stadium lights, xenons.
Didn't know what lights, but she's definitely lit up!
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/06/2008 11:04 pm
Quote
collectSPACE - 6/2/2008 11:57 PM
Greetings from Pad 39A... or more specifically, inside a bus sitting outside the perimeter gate, hiding from the mosquitoes.
*Very jealous* :bleh: Beats the webcams, so thanks!
Post by: collectSPACE on 02/06/2008 11:04 pm
Quote
generic_handle_42 - 6/2/2008 5:59 PMNothing specific but it may be related to a routine check of the tile surfaces before retraction can begin. More details if/when they are provided...
Any specific reason for the delay?
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 11:05 pm
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 11:24 pm
Post by: RafaelCE on 02/06/2008 11:25 pm
Quote
collectSPACE - 6/2/2008 5:57 PM
Greetings from Pad 39A... or more specifically, inside a bus sitting outside the perimeter gate, hiding from the mosquitoes.
Any yummi image to post from where you are? Even a cell phone one?
Post by: DaveS on 02/06/2008 11:29 pm
Quote
dember - 7/2/2008 1:24 AMRSS retract in progress!
Any change to the time of first motion?
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:36 pm
Post by: RafaelCE on 02/06/2008 11:37 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:39 pm
Post by: RafaelCE on 02/06/2008 11:39 pm
Post by: dember on 02/06/2008 11:44 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:47 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:50 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:52 pm
Post by: psloss on 02/06/2008 11:52 pm
Quote
RafaelCE - 6/2/2008 7:37 PMWe can only see these two cameras, which is nice, but they are for the launch team and they have dozens of cameras to monitor the vehicle and the pad. 070 may be fixed on the nose of the tank by request...
Cam 070 feed still showing bennie cap. Canīt see retraction from there. Wish will see it live at least once before the end of the program.
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:54 pm
Post by: on 02/06/2008 11:55 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:56 pm
Post by: on 02/06/2008 11:56 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/06/2008 11:58 pm
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/07/2008 12:00 am
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/07/2008 12:02 am
Post by: RafaelCE on 02/07/2008 12:02 am
But the more we get, the more we want. Wish they had fixed 070 a little lower to see the actual motion!!
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/07/2008 12:04 am
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/07/2008 12:11 am
Post by: RafaelCE on 02/07/2008 12:27 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 12:32 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 12:42 am
Post by: generic_handle_42 on 02/07/2008 12:43 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 12:45 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 01:00 am
Post by: on 02/07/2008 01:02 am
Post by: MKremer on 02/07/2008 01:05 am
Quote
Justin Wheat - 6/2/2008 8:02 PM
What were they doing up there?
Never hurts to do last minute inspections and checks by hand when you have the opportunity.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 01:14 am
Post by: MKremer on 02/07/2008 01:24 am
Post by: NASAGeek on 02/07/2008 01:29 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 01:42 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 01:48 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 01:58 am
Post by: MKremer on 02/07/2008 01:58 am
(what do they use to transport that equipment off the pad and out of the way? just that standard flatbed trailer?)
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 02:00 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 02:05 am
Also, 15 minutes until we come out of the T-11 BIH.
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 02:14 am
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 02:25 am
T-11 hours and COUNTING!
- Resume countdown at T-11 hours (10:20 p.m.)
- Activate the orbiter's fuel cells (11:40 p.m.)
- Clear the blast danger area of all non-essential personnel
- Switch Atlantis' purge air to gaseous nitrogen (2:50 a.m.)
Post by: Ford Mustang on 02/07/2008 02:27 am
Post by: MKremer on 02/07/2008 02:30 am
Quote
Ford Mustang - 6/2/2008 9:00 PM
Ah, thanks for that, MKremer. Thought it was something else. Will continue to post images, just not as much. :)
Thx. As for all that additional equipment, take a close look at the KSC images at rollout and once at the pad and notice all the extra hardware on top of the pad itself. Also, some the KSC Multimedia images during pad processing show the extra equipment on the pad surface needed for pre-launch preps. And all that 'stuff' needs to be removed before the final countdown begins.
'
Post by: Chris Bergin on 02/07/2008 02:33 am
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11773&start=1
Won't lock this one yet.
Post by: on 02/07/2008 02:50 am
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=4