Quote from: ThereIWas3 on 08/04/2018 01:20 pmI was just listening to the Planetary Society's monthly podcast on Space Policy, which was about Mars policy in general and this meeting in particular.It was dissapointing in the same way as the meeting itself. Not only did the program not mention that the Senators did not address non-NASA efforts on manned Mars trips, but the program participants did not bring it up themselves. They presented the Society's new Principles for Manned Spaceflight and they continue to conflate a goal of "mankind should explore space" with "NASA should send humans beyond LEO". As though nobody else is working on this.They did at least bemoan the fact that even NASA's budget for technology developemt is being cut back, but they did not mention, for example, that SpaceX has its own ECLSS development project.What does Planetary Society want to mess with human spaceflight anyway? They're a planetary science advocacy organization, and since there's no private company funding for planetary science, they are 100% dependent on congress, which means they wouldn't dare saying a bad word about congressional decisions on human spaceflight.
I was just listening to the Planetary Society's monthly podcast on Space Policy, which was about Mars policy in general and this meeting in particular.It was dissapointing in the same way as the meeting itself. Not only did the program not mention that the Senators did not address non-NASA efforts on manned Mars trips, but the program participants did not bring it up themselves. They presented the Society's new Principles for Manned Spaceflight and they continue to conflate a goal of "mankind should explore space" with "NASA should send humans beyond LEO". As though nobody else is working on this.They did at least bemoan the fact that even NASA's budget for technology developemt is being cut back, but they did not mention, for example, that SpaceX has its own ECLSS development project.
my take on the chinese government is that they are interested in only doing human space with them as "the lead" and "others" on board who are there for government interaction purposes. Ie they treat their guest much as we treated, oh the guy from Saudi Arabia when he rode on the shuttle.
Quote from: TripleSeven on 08/04/2018 02:31 pmmy take on the chinese government is that they are interested in only doing human space with them as "the lead" and "others" on board who are there for government interaction purposes. Ie they treat their guest much as we treated, oh the guy from Saudi Arabia when he rode on the shuttle.Since the EU is unlikely to commit the resources to be a leading power in space flight, especially human spaceflight, I suspect that a Chinese-EU partnership could be a pretty good fit to the aspirations of both entities. The EU gets to participate in something bigger than it would fund by itself, and China gets to be a leader on the world stage in a role formerly reserved for the US. And, with the EU now so annoyed with the US, there's never been a better time.
I was just listening to the Planetary Society's monthly podcast on Space Policy, which was about Mars policy in general and this meeting in particular.It was dissapointing in the same way as the meeting itself. Not only did the program not mention that the Senators did not address non-NASA efforts on manned Mars trips, but the program participants did not bring it up themselves....
Quote from: ThereIWas3 on 08/04/2018 01:20 pmI was just listening to the Planetary Society's monthly podcast on Space Policy, which was about Mars policy in general and this meeting in particular.It was dissapointing in the same way as the meeting itself. Not only did the program not mention that the Senators did not address non-NASA efforts on manned Mars trips, but the program participants did not bring it up themselves....The participants did make good, though depressing point, that I should have picked up on myself: despite the topic being NASA's progress toward Mars, the senators neglected to invite a single witness from NASA! They probably knew what they would hear (NASA's doing pretty much nothing about going to Mars, especially not by the 2030s).
Don't know if this is more depressing but the Social Security Retirement Calculator says if you are born in 1960 or later, full retirement is 67.
"We've seen NASA budgets in recent years increasing, and increasing substantially, but we’re never going to have sufficient taxpayer money to fund what needs to be done in space unless we can leverage billions and billions of dollars from the private sector," he said. "That's how we get the resources that are really needed to conquer the next frontier."
"The innovation that we're seeing from SpaceX and from private companies across the board is much of the reason for the optimism we see concerning space," Cruz said. "We need competition and entrepreneurs inventing and innovating. You know, just a few years ago the concept of reusable rockets, rockets that could land and be used again, would have seemed like science fiction. Now we're seeing that done. That's the kind of innovation it's going to take to get to Mars and beyond, and it is only through robust competition in the private sector that we'll see that happen."
2030...12 years or so away...my 4 year old with be 16, I'll be 64, my 8 year old will be 20, my 26 year old 38...unless they raise the retirement age I will have 1 year left of flight ops...and no body will be on Mars ... if we are lucky lots of robots...but no personall of this is depressing
It is nice to hear senior members of the panel express optimism about commercial progress in this area. Now they need to take the next step: the only way to actually benefit from what SpaceX is doing is to use it! And that means use it in place of SLS, not in addition. If NASA is going to be able to afford to contribute anything to the Mars effort, it first has to be rid of the dollar-sucking pork programs that Congress has saddled it with.
(fan) Well sure. But the cards aren't there to cancel SLS at this time. It needs to totter on for a while first, to the point that commercial alternatives are obviously better, faster and cheaper. Sadly
Pork. This hearing is about Mars vs Moon government space. It's Congress vs the White House.Besides, few in government ever believe Elon is actually going to do what he says he's gunna do. When BFS becomes a reality we'll see a little bit of shakeup but there's still going to be denial.
By now it is not about the funds. It is about culture.About growing some balls.
Quote from: Hauerg on 08/11/2018 11:15 amBy now it is not about the funds. It is about culture.It’s always about the money.
By now it is not about the funds. It is about culture.
Quote from: Star One on 08/11/2018 11:38 amQuote from: Hauerg on 08/11/2018 11:15 amBy now it is not about the funds. It is about culture.It’s always about the money.Differences in culture are more important than money.You can spend 30 billion on SLS (out to the tenth launch say).Or you can - even without BFR, solely using FH, in a reusable launch mode with a stretched second stage and a block buy at $100M per, get 1500 tons or so to LEO, for the (amortised) price SLS would get you 100.It is unclear if propellant transfer, and ... are technologically ready with no development. They certainly haven't been tried.Trying them rather than leaping into development assuming they aren't possible is a matter of culture.
Quote from: Proponent on 08/07/2018 01:58 pmQuote from: TripleSeven on 08/04/2018 02:31 pmmy take on the chinese government is that they are interested in only doing human space with them as "the lead" and "others" on board who are there for government interaction purposes. Ie they treat their guest much as we treated, oh the guy from Saudi Arabia when he rode on the shuttle.Since the EU is unlikely to commit the resources to be a leading power in space flight, especially human spaceflight, I suspect that a Chinese-EU partnership could be a pretty good fit to the aspirations of both entities. The EU gets to participate in something bigger than it would fund by itself, and China gets to be a leader on the world stage in a role formerly reserved for the US. And, with the EU now so annoyed with the US, there's never been a better time.Where you wrote EU you should have written ESA. EU and ESA are not the same thing.