On payloads Red Dragon's science payload should massive compared to past mars missions including MSL though there is no way you could deploy an MSL sized rover from Dragon.But Red Dragon probably could deploy something along the lines of Robonaut from Project M along with a couple of MER class rovers repackaged to fit through the hatch.Packaging is a bigger issue here then mass as Red Dragon's payload should be similar to Dragon's Earth down mass or around 3000kg.
Would it be enough for a sample return platform? Put a drop ramp on one side for a rover, tuck in a Zubrin style ISRU to make propellant, and put a sample return rocket on top with a "mini-dragon"... it'd be like matryoshka dolls. =) It would help validate the lander for Mars, the ISRU component, and give us a return sample.Quote from: manboy on 07/31/2011 10:47 pmQuote from: docmordrid on 07/31/2011 06:14 pmFirst thing that comes to mind is that this would be a Dragon derived vehicle.With the pressurized section hollowed out? Would doing that really result in significant cost savings?
Quote from: docmordrid on 07/31/2011 06:14 pmFirst thing that comes to mind is that this would be a Dragon derived vehicle.With the pressurized section hollowed out? Would doing that really result in significant cost savings?
First thing that comes to mind is that this would be a Dragon derived vehicle.
Seriously though, in the 2018ish timeframe, dragon would be a good candidate to deliver a respectable drill rig which would drill through dragons floor, threading on numerous drill-pipe segments for a depth of penetration of at least many tens of meters. Core or chip samples could be collected in dragon and analyzed.
Quote from: go4mars on 08/03/2011 04:31 pmSeriously though, in the 2018ish timeframe, dragon would be a good candidate to deliver a respectable drill rig which would drill through dragons floor, threading on numerous drill-pipe segments for a depth of penetration of at least many tens of meters. Core or chip samples could be collected in dragon and analyzed. No, it wouldn'tA. What is its power source?b, What says it is a stable enough platform for drilling or any other experiment? c,Earth landing requirements are different.d. The interior is self limiting for hardware.
Quote from: Patchouli on 08/03/2011 06:00 amOn payloads Red Dragon's science payload should massive compared to past mars missions including MSL though there is no way you could deploy an MSL sized rover from Dragon.But Red Dragon probably could deploy something along the lines of Robonaut from Project M along with a couple of MER class rovers repackaged to fit through the hatch.Packaging is a bigger issue here then mass as Red Dragon's payload should be similar to Dragon's Earth down mass or around 3000kg.I assume that Robonaut can pick things up and move them through the hatch. It, with help from a tool box, can probably assemble equipment on the surface of Mars.
I don't think this has to be a very complex science mission. The first dragon landing on mars should be an almost pure technology demonstration mission.Just proving that a capsule with a 15° cone angle can be soft-landed on mars would be a major advance. Every single mars study I have seen uses either some kind of lifting body or some other very space-inefficient design like apollo/orion. If you can land a dragon-shaped spacecraft on mars, you no longer need a huge payload fairing to land your manned mission.
The idea that this mission would be proposed to Discovery is astounding. ~$450M to land something as big as Dragon + payload on Mars? If they can do that, that's a game changer.
Quote from: Jim on 08/03/2011 04:50 pmQuote from: go4mars on 08/03/2011 04:31 pmSeriously though, in the 2018ish timeframe, dragon would be a good candidate to deliver a respectable drill rig which would drill through dragons floor, threading on numerous drill-pipe segments for a depth of penetration of at least many tens of meters. Core or chip samples could be collected in dragon and analyzed. No, it wouldn'tA. What is its power source?b, What says it is a stable enough platform for drilling or any other experiment? c,Earth landing requirements are different.d. The interior is self limiting for hardware.A. TBD. What would you recommend? B. My experience with drilling (I'm a geologist/reservoir engineer). Extreme stability is not essential, and a drill-rig could be designed to handle some settling (slight angle change) while at work fairly easily if dragon's footing shifted during the drilling process (with flexible rig-mounting hardware within dragon). C. Mars landing requirements would need to be assessed and some reprogramming would be necessary. SpaceX would probably need to turn off half of the 8 propulsive landing engines and throttle down the remaining ones, with a slight change in engine thrust vectors so they don't go into a spin. Or have an option of launching with just 4 propulsive landing motors for unmanned planetary missions. I was thinking along the assumption that SpaceX is in talks with NASA (or some guys from NASA) about launching something to Mars in 7 or 9 years because SpaceX believes they can have the ability to do so by then. Like you, SpaceX knows that landing requirements on Earth are different.D. True. The pipe-segment length would need to be sized accordingly. I don't know how feasible (expensive) a nose-cone extension would be (for longer segments of drill-pipe), but the size limitations imposed by a naked dragon interior could be worked with.
A. shuttle APU's run on the order of minutes and not weeks.B. APU's are mono prop
Quote from: Jim on 08/05/2011 12:28 amA. shuttle APU's run on the order of minutes and not weeks.B. APU's are mono propcopy on point B. But you can still carry a lot of mono prop in a derived Dragon. on point A, was thinking of about several hours of power just for the drill rig. Presume solar arrays with storage batteries for other operations.@go4marsHow deep is the test drill rig aiming for? My guess about 20 meters with 2 meter drill-pipe sections. Could several hours of drill rig operating time be enough?
@go4marsHow deep is the test drill rig aiming for? My guess about 20 meters with 2 meter drill-pipe sections. Could several hours of drill rig operating time be enough?