We know what these are for the Red Dragon concept: Falcon Heavy (Merlin 1D) , and Dragon with SuperDracos (similar or identical to the abort/landing motors for crewed Dragon.) Falcon Heavy is predicted to throw ~10 mt to Mars, and allow a Dragon to take ~1 mt of payload to the surface.The SuperDracos (x8), mounted in the pods in the sidewall are rated ~15K lb each.
Quote from: adrianwyard on 11/29/2013 09:14 pmWe know what these are for the Red Dragon concept: Falcon Heavy (Merlin 1D) , and Dragon with SuperDracos (similar or identical to the abort/landing motors for crewed Dragon.) Falcon Heavy is predicted to throw ~10 mt to Mars, and allow a Dragon to take ~1 mt of payload to the surface.The SuperDracos (x8), mounted in the pods in the sidewall are rated ~15K lb each.Raptor is in the frame now. I'd expect that to be the engine of choice for any vehicles referenced for Mars missions such as MCT.
The value of Red Dragon IMHO has always been how it could demonstrate so much for so little. New larger Mars landers will be more useful and impressive, but here's the argument that appeals to me:If Falcon Heavy flies by 2015,And FH performance is as expected - it can throw ~10 mt to Mars, i.e. a Dragon.And crewed Dragon with Super Dracos is successfully demonstrating powered abort/vertical landings by 2015.Then as early as 2016, a FH test flight could theoretically send a test Dragon to Mars, and make SpaceX the first private company to place a lander on its surface, and in doing so demonstrate a number of technologies and capabilities, that are in line with the founders' vision.Placing a 1 tonne payload on Mars is nothing new - the MSL EDL system did that, and is arguably a better solution. But if SpaceX were to do it, even if it was just once, that would be a major milestone in commercial spaceflight history.And the clincher is the upgrades needed to do this are comparatively minor, i.e. deep space navigation and com, perhaps some rad hardening, and stressing the supposed long duration capabilities of the Dragon.
I wouldn't like to go to Mars in a DragonCrew vehicle. Too small but that's just me.
Then as early as 2016, a FH test flight could theoretically send a test Dragon to Mars, and make SpaceX the first private company to place a lander on its surface, and in doing so demonstrate a number of technologies and capabilities, that are in line with the founders' vision.
May I ask is the PICA-X heat shield of Dragon designed and expected to survive a high-speed reentry of the Martian atmosphere?
The margins are too close, they won't bother with the current FH. Loaded Dragon 1 is 10-11 tons, they say FH can TMI 13 tons. Add on all the items required to make sure Dragon can land on Mars successfully you're at or over TMI capability of FH.They will wait until they can do something meaningful before attempting this.
Yes, 10-11 tonnes total mass would be right if you factor in a max payload of 6 tonnes on Dragon 1.0.So there's up to 6 tonnes to spend on the crewed Dragon upgrades and payload.
Quote from: adrianwyard on 12/03/2013 04:00 pmYes, 10-11 tonnes total mass would be right if you factor in a max payload of 6 tonnes on Dragon 1.0.So there's up to 6 tonnes to spend on the crewed Dragon upgrades and payload.Seems enough to send an additional medium size orbiter along.
I don't see SpaceX coming up with the cash to do this on their own just to prove they can, but by perhaps 2018 they may have teamed with someone who'd like to try to get 1 tonne to Mars.
Quote from: newpylong on 12/03/2013 02:03 pmThe margins are too close, they won't bother with the current FH. Loaded Dragon 1 is 10-11 tons, they say FH can TMI 13 tons. Add on all the items required to make sure Dragon can land on Mars successfully you're at or over TMI capability of FH.They will wait until they can do something meaningful before attempting this.Dry mass of stock Dragon is supposed to be ~4.5 tonnes, and web sources say Red Dragon comes in at 6.5+1 for payload.I don't see SpaceX coming up with the cash to do this on their own just to prove they can, but by perhaps 2018 they may have teamed with someone who'd like to try to get 1 tonne to Mars.