You have something against LEGOs?OK, I get it, if DC has not been designed to use an add-on propulsion unit, there can be a lot of issues trying to add one, then, what is the use case? It's just that extended uses beyond transport to ISS are being discussed, so it's pertinent.
Quote from: Jcc on 01/12/2014 04:43 pmYou have something against LEGOs?OK, I get it, if DC has not been designed to use an add-on propulsion unit, there can be a lot of issues trying to add one, then, what is the use case? It's just that extended uses beyond transport to ISS are being discussed, so it's pertinent.No, just spaceflight hardware being treated as LEGOs.If you want extended uses beyond transport to ISS then use purpose designed hardware and not kludging together pieces because they exist.
Quote from: M129K on 01/12/2014 02:30 pmQuote from: Jcc on 01/12/2014 02:18 pmCould a separate propulsion module be adapted to DC? Such as the ATV SM is being adapted to Orion?That would be more European tech content.A propulsion module, as in a small rocket stage? Sure. The SM is very different from that, however, as it provides life support and power as well as propulsion. People doing that Lego thing again.
Quote from: Jcc on 01/12/2014 02:18 pmCould a separate propulsion module be adapted to DC? Such as the ATV SM is being adapted to Orion?That would be more European tech content.A propulsion module, as in a small rocket stage? Sure. The SM is very different from that, however, as it provides life support and power as well as propulsion.
Could a separate propulsion module be adapted to DC? Such as the ATV SM is being adapted to Orion?That would be more European tech content.
Does anyone realistically think that DC is ever going to space? They will probably not win the NASA contract, so where is all this development money coming from? Yes there is a deal with the europeans - but do you see them putting a whole lot of money into DC? If Europeans want to go to space in the next 3-7 years- Spacex/Boeing or Soyult.
Also, it's LEGO (as in "LEGO something"[1]) not LEGOs.. LEGO, like all brand names, is an adjective not a noun. The LEGO Group prefer that it always be rendered in ALL CAPS as that is how they do it. It's their brand.
Purpose designed hardware is the best way to do anything. If cost is no object. In the real world cost is always an object.
I see no reason why Dream Chaser couldn't be used with a small rocket stage specifically designed to fit on Dream Chaser, including an adapter if that's necessary. I'm not proposing playing rocket lego with existing parts, especially not using the Orion SM on Dream Chaser. I know rockets aren't legos.I think a propulsion module on DC would be kind of pointless as it likely can't reenter from BLEO anyway.
Quote from: HIP2BSQRE on 01/12/2014 06:50 pmDoes anyone realistically think that DC is ever going to space? They will probably not win the NASA contract, so where is all this development money coming from? Yes there is a deal with the europeans - but do you see them putting a whole lot of money into DC? If Europeans want to go to space in the next 3-7 years- Spacex/Boeing or Soyult. ESA is not exactly a huge cash-cow right now. Not with the financial crisis having hit Europe particularly hard. And it never was a cash-cow to begin with; with only a quarter of the annual budget of NASA. Chances of ESA/DLR inputting substantial amounts of money into DC (think 10's to 100's of millions of Euro's) are very slim.The current studies into synergies are dirt-cheap. Getting into anything serious beyond that is not.
Quote from: HIP2BSQRE on 01/12/2014 06:50 pmDoes anyone realistically think that DC is ever going to space? They will probably not win the NASA contract, so where is all this development money coming from? Yes there is a deal with the europeans - but do you see them putting a whole lot of money into DC? If Europeans want to go to space in the next 3-7 years- Spacex/Boeing or Soyult. I totally agree with you.
Quote from: HIP2BSQRE on 01/12/2014 06:51 pmQuote from: HIP2BSQRE on 01/12/2014 06:50 pmDoes anyone realistically think that DC is ever going to space? They will probably not win the NASA contract, so where is all this development money coming from? Yes there is a deal with the europeans - but do you see them putting a whole lot of money into DC? If Europeans want to go to space in the next 3-7 years- Spacex/Boeing or Soyult. I totally agree with you.Forgot to switch accounts?
From a cost perspective, launching Europeans to ISS may be cheaper for ESA with DC on an Ariane
The Europeans currently fly astronauts to the ISS via Soyuz. If Boeing or Sierra Nevada win the Commercial Crew contract, the Atlas V 402 rocket would be used as the launch vehicle. Note that NASA just paid $187 Million dollars for an Atlas 401 rocket to launch MAVEN, and that wasn't man-rated.From a cost perspective, launching Europeans to ISS may be cheaper for ESA with DC on an Ariane 5 than paying NASA with Commercial Crew. Ariane 5 costs are $200 Million, but the money stays in Europe and helps them with fixed costs & flight rate. Ideally, there would be some way to take along some cargo on each flight as well, to take advantage of the launch vehicle's performance.
that is not the cost of an Atlas. That is the launch service cost of MAVEN. There are many other costs rolled up in that number. Also, manrating only going to have a minor cost impact limited to the extra avionics involved.
I don't think it is unreasonable for ESA to conduct a study to see if Ariane V is cheaper than Atlas with DC.
Quote from: Todd Martin on 01/14/2014 06:41 pmI don't think it is unreasonable for ESA to conduct a study to see if Ariane V is cheaper than Atlas with DC. What says SNC is going to allow DC to fly on Ariane? SNC may not want to sell DC's but just seats on DC.