meiza - 18/3/2007 6:52 PMThis is a nice image from air liquide, shows the vapor pressure of methane at different temperatures:http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/images_encyclopedie/VaporPressureGraph/Methane_Vapor_Pressure.GIFThe forum will probably break the page url below:http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/Encyclopedia.asp?LanguageID=11&CountryID=19&Formula=&GasID=41&UNNumber=&EquivGasID=41&VolLiquideBox=&MasseLiquideBox=&VolGasBox=&MasseGasBox=&btnMSDS=0&MSDSLanguageBox=11&RD20=29&RD9=8&RD6=64&RD4=2&RD3=23&RD8=27&RD2=20&RD18=41&RD7=18&RD13=50&RD16=35&RD12=31&RD19=34&RD24=62&RD25=77&RD26=78&RD28=81&RD29=82&btnSubmitUnit=Click+to+change+the+valuesAnyway, it shows what kind of temperatures can be achieved with methane with tank pressure constraints. At atmospheric pressure of 1 bar, 110 K. 10 bar you can sustain 140 K. So it doesn't rise very steeply.Here's one for oxygen. 1 bar, 90 K. 10 bar, 120 Kelvin.http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/images_encyclopedie/VaporPressureGraph/Oxygen_Vapor_Pressure.GIFLiquid methane smaller density (423 kg/m^3) than oxygen (1141 kg/m^3). If you use a mixture ratio of about 3, the tanks are roughly the same size.Of course the performance is a lot crappier than with hydrogen.You might already have browsed this methane engine list?http://www.astronautix.com/props/loxlch4.htmSeems the highest ones are in the 370 to 380 isp range. RD-0124 achieves 359 s with kerosene...
khallow - 20/3/2007 3:30 PMOne should also consider propane. It has a slightly lower ISP, but better fuel density (about 20% more dense I gather), is liquid at lox temperatures, and has a huge range over which it remains liquid (so it is easier to store in most places including Earth, Mars, and the Moon). Any time you have methane available, you can make propane.
khallow - 21/3/2007 7:30 AMKeep in mind that pure methane has low density for a fuel and a narrow temperature range over which it remains liquid. Also, it freezes at the boiling point of oxygen. One should also consider propane. It has a slightly lower ISP, but better fuel density (about 20% more dense I gather), is liquid at lox temperatures, and has a huge range over which it remains liquid (so it is easier to store in most places including Earth, Mars, and the Moon). Any time you have methane available, you can make propane.
Christine - 27/3/2007 7:28 PMPropylene though might also be interesting, particularly in a pressure fed system. Similar isp to cyclopropane, wont freeze at lox temperatures, and when chilled it has roughly the same density as kerosene. It's also used as feedstock in just about every industrial process known to man, so it's dirt cheap and readily available. It's no good with turbopumps though as it's vapor pressure is twice that of propane, and it's high combustion temps might make chamber cooling 'interesting'.
yinzer - 27/3/2007 8:40 PMI think propylene might have problems polymerizing in the combustion chamber cooling passages.Also, having one propellant boil above the freezing point of another is not necessarily a show-stopper - oxygen freezes at a higher temperature than hydrogen boils, and yet the most successful LOX/LH2 stage uses a common bulkhead.