Blue Origin New Glenn Thread 2: Updates and Discussion

[Robert_the_Doll]

Fun fact, this application is still not complete.

Do you have evidence of this?

I've confirmed it, and these things are easy to find on the FDEP website.

Moderator:
starskale, here on the NSF forum one provides a reference or references when one makes an assertion of fact such as yours.

We don't say "Look it up yourself!"

You know that; you've been a member long enough.

Provide a link, please.

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

[JCRM]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

[ajmarco]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

[meekGee]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

The problem is that this query only shows pending requests. If you look at the dates you see that requests go back many years, and yet 100% of them show as "pending".

The conclusion is that approved applicants don't show up.

So all we know is that BO has 4 pending requests. 2 are very old and 2 are recent. All could be superseded by other applications that were since granted.

Other than that, there's no other data that says they're still not approved.

I think we should focus on that booster and engines. That has always been the long pole. Second stage got dragged till last week but that's officially signed off now, so we're back to engine integration, testing, and static fire.

5 weeks till 11/8.

[edzieba]

You can also check the progress of FLAB07454 (permit for the LC-36 deluge discharge) in FDEP NEXUS. Latest update as of 2024/09/04 was a request for a 90-day extension for BO to provide a response to questions for additional information.

[Robert_the_Doll]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

You missed the point. He could have easily shown with a simple snapshot of item. It is not on us to do his work for him. I expected to see the page or a snapshot of it, and he did not come through. Also, as Meekgee points out, there are many pending that go back a good number of years.

[starskale]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

The problem is that this query only shows pending requests. If you look at the dates you see that requests go back many years, and yet 100% of them show as "pending".

The conclusion is that approved applicants don't show up.

So all we know is that BO has 4 pending requests. 2 are very old and 2 are recent. All could be superseded by other applications that were since granted.

Other than that, there's no other data that says they're still not approved.

I think we should focus on that booster and engines. That has always been the long pole. Second stage got dragged till last week but that's officially signed off now, so we're back to engine integration, testing, and static fire.

5 weeks till 11/8.

Ones that are complete have a status of "Issued"

If you want active permits, you can search here https://prodenv.dep.state.fl.us/DepNexus/public/facilitysearch SpaceX LC-39A for instance is FLA010307.

[Robert_the_Doll]

Flyover of Blue Origin facilities, a second flight aft fuselage, midbody tank (same as seen underway in Tim Dodd's tour?) GS2 firing:

[meekGee]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

You missed the point. He could have easily shown with a simple snapshot of item. It is not on us to do his work for him. I expected to see the page or a snapshot of it, and he did not come through. Also, as Meekgee points out, there are many pending that go back a good number of years.

The "point" is moot since now we're looking at the actual permits and the poster wasn't fibbing.

If you want to focus on his posting depth responsibility instead of on whether there's a(nother) permitting problem here, head on over to the space policy subforum.

[starskale]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

The problem is that this query only shows pending requests. If you look at the dates you see that requests go back many years, and yet 100% of them show as "pending".

The conclusion is that approved applicants don't show up.

So all we know is that BO has 4 pending requests. 2 are very old and 2 are recent. All could be superseded by other applications that were since granted.

Other than that, there's no other data that says they're still not approved.

I think we should focus on that booster and engines. That has always been the long pole. Second stage got dragged till last week but that's officially signed off now, so we're back to engine integration, testing, and static fire.

5 weeks till 11/8.

Ones that are complete have a status of "Issued"

If you want active permits, you can search here https://prodenv.dep.state.fl.us/DepNexus/public/facilitysearch SpaceX LC-39A for instance is FLA010307.

BO's modified SJRWMD permit has been issued. This should be the last outstanding item remaining for moving the FDEP deluge permit forward:

https://permitting.sjrwmd.com/apps/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&coreContentOnly=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=Latest&allowInterrupt=1&dDocName=EREG_8305199

[StraumliBlight]

Blue Origin is going to repeat the simulated landing test from October 4th-18th.

Explanation
The 1699-EX-ST-2024 STA is requested to be extended to 10/18/24. Problems found during test and delays in the installation schedule for the offshore test assets requires Blue Origin to retest for internal compliance. No changes have been made to any technical information contained in the license. The STA is necessary for a testing that requires the use of some portion of NTIA S-band spectrum primary user. Space Launch vehicles utilizes small portions of aforementioned S-band spectrum as a secondary user in a non-interference basis.

Purpose of Operation
Blue Origin (New Glenn Program) needs to perform a test verification and validation activities of Marine antenna systems while offshore near the Port of Cape Canaveral, FL To perform a test verification and validation of Marine antenna systems with a flying helicopter simulating an attitude of a launch vehicle over the Atlantic ocean approx. 12nm from Port of Cape Canaveral This will be a one-time test, and once conducted it will not be required for the entire duration request of the STA

[Robert_the_Doll]

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch

The applicant company is Blue Origin.

Your results are not there. This is all that is:

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

The problem is that this query only shows pending requests. If you look at the dates you see that requests go back many years, and yet 100% of them show as "pending".

The conclusion is that approved applicants don't show up.

So all we know is that BO has 4 pending requests. 2 are very old and 2 are recent. All could be superseded by other applications that were since granted.

Other than that, there's no other data that says they're still not approved.

I think we should focus on that booster and engines. That has always been the long pole. Second stage got dragged till last week but that's officially signed off now, so we're back to engine integration, testing, and static fire.

5 weeks till 11/8.

Ones that are complete have a status of "Issued"

If you want active permits, you can search here https://prodenv.dep.state.fl.us/DepNexus/public/facilitysearch SpaceX LC-39A for instance is FLA010307.

BO's modified SJRWMD permit has been issued. This should be the last outstanding item remaining for moving the FDEP deluge permit forward:

https://permitting.sjrwmd.com/apps/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&coreContentOnly=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=Latest&allowInterrupt=1&dDocName=EREG_8305199

Thank you for the straight up link.

[meekGee]

Ones that are complete have a status of "Issued"

If you want active permits, you can search here https://prodenv.dep.state.fl.us/DepNexus/public/facilitysearch SpaceX LC-39A for instance is FLA010307.

BO's modified SJRWMD permit has been issued. This should be the last outstanding item remaining for moving the FDEP deluge permit forward:

https://permitting.sjrwmd.com/apps/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&coreContentOnly=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=Latest&allowInterrupt=1&dDocName=EREG_8305199

Thank you for the straight up link.

Just to counter the snark, as was explained above, it wasn't possible to provide a "straight up link" to search results, and certainly not to a permit that wasn't issued yet.

But the assertion was valid. The permit was only issued just now, which is at odds with the bravado that preceded the EscaPADE launch window.

[Comga]

Blue Origin is going to repeat the simulated landing test from October 4th-18th.

Explanation
The 1699-EX-ST-2024 STA is requested to be extended to 10/18/24. Problems found during test and delays in the installation schedule for the offshore test assets requires Blue Origin to retest for internal compliance. No changes have been made to any technical information contained in the license. The STA is necessary for a testing that requires the use of some portion of NTIA S-band spectrum primary user. Space Launch vehicles utilizes small portions of aforementioned S-band spectrum as a secondary user in a non-interference basis.

Purpose of Operation
Blue Origin (New Glenn Program) needs to perform a test verification and validation activities of Marine antenna systems while offshore near the Port of Cape Canaveral, FL To perform a test verification and validation of Marine antenna systems with a flying helicopter simulating an attitude of a launch vehicle over the Atlantic ocean approx. 12nm from Port of Cape Canaveral This will be a one-time test, and once conducted it will not be required for the entire duration request of the STA

So Blue had problems during a simulated landing test of their comm system, which is neither surprising or consequential, yet they still profess to be planning on 10-12 launches with four first stages in the next 15 months.

Queue the
Benjamin Brewster quote about theory and practice.

[JCRM]

Unfortunately, the search only accepts POST requests, so you can't easily link to specific results

However, https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/webpa/PublicPAreports/PASearch/PASearchresults will show you everything, and as you can see, it only lists pending applications, not completed ones. so starskale 's claim to have verified it is, to use the technical term, bunk.

Actually, if you use the link provided by starskale and search as suggested you can see that the water permit for LC36 is still pending in the system.

No, it shows a request is still pending, but contains nothing other than pending requests, so in itself doesn't show that a suitable permit has not been issued.


As such, it proves nothing about whether other permits have been granted.

However, after digging into the awful system, and installing software to interpret ".msg" files it would appear that this is required (and presumably has been granted, given the usage during the test fire of the upper stage)

[JCRM]

You can also check the progress of FLAB07454 (permit for the LC-36 deluge discharge) in FDEP NEXUS. Latest update as of 2024/09/04 was a request for a 90-day extension for BO to provide a response to questions for additional information.

nitpicking... but... requesting a 90 day extension for St. Johns River Water Management District to provide the response Blue were asked to supply

[JCRM]

But the assertion was valid. The permit was only issued just now, which is at odds with the bravado that preceded the EscaPADE launch window.

But the permit was issued in time for the (now postponed) EscaPADE launch

[starskale]

But the assertion was valid. The permit was only issued just now, which is at odds with the bravado that preceded the EscaPADE launch window.

But the permit was issued in time for the (now postponed) EscaPADE launch

The required SJRWMD modification required by the RAI for FLAB07454-001-IW8D has been completed. But FDEP still needs to finish processing the application. The text from the relevant email (not including full since it has all the email addresses, phone numbers, etc):

Randall,
This is notice that the requested ERP modification to allow the deluge water to discharge to the adjacent ponds at LC 36 has been granted, see attached permit mod.. This should provide a response to the applicable open RAI comment and allow the Department to complete the permit review.
Please contact us with any questions..Jim.

The most recent event is "The Department is reviewing the permit application to determine if it contains all required information." as of Sept 30.

While it's somewhat easy to find the full data for permits in review, information on issued permits is a bit more scattered. You can find the documents in either FDEP's Oculus or EPAs ECHO, but you really need to know where to look. I managed to find this:

https://mapdirect-fdep.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/1849e21a63574803bf5a4a8ec4a00ecc/explore

It has direct links to all the permit application "files" for FDEP. Like here's a SpaceX renewal for their LC-39A deluge:

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/pa/MasterDetail/MasterDetail/576012

From when FDEP received all the requested information until completion was about 2 months.

Blue's deluge permit:

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/pa/MasterDetail/MasterDetail/736146

And their related H2O2 permit which will presumably be required for launch and possibly GS1 testing as well:

https://prodapps.dep.state.fl.us/pa/MasterDetail/MasterDetail/743465

Not sure why Blue Origin let the application fee sit unpaid for so long on that one, especially since this may trigger another SJRWMD modification.

Documents can then be obtained by entering the facility ID in this URL (eg):

https://prodenv.dep.state.fl.us/DepNexus/public/electronic-documents/FLA010307/facility!search

[JCRM]

But the assertion was valid. The permit was only issued just now, which is at odds with the bravado that preceded the EscaPADE launch window.

But the permit was issued in time for the (now postponed) EscaPADE launch

The required SJRWMD modification required by the RAI for FLAB07454-001-IW8D has been completed. But FDEP still needs to finish processing the application. The text from the relevant email (not including full since it has all the email addresses, phone numbers, etc):

Randall,
This is notice that the requested ERP modification to allow the deluge water to discharge to the adjacent ponds at LC 36 has been granted, see attached permit mod.. This should provide a response to the applicable open RAI comment and allow the Department to complete the permit review.
Please contact us with any questions..Jim.

The most recent event is "The Department is reviewing the permit application to determine if it contains all required information." as of Sept 30.

The most recent event in the publicly available system.

They operated the deluge.

They did this without a permit, or they have an applicable permit.