Author Topic: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?  (Read 11023 times)

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11013
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1282
  • Likes Given: 739
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #20 on: 12/19/2023 01:21 pm »
Quote from: Twark
You can't just "set" qubits and have them be entangled. You have to go through a special procedure to entangle two qubits on a quantum computer, and afterwards you don't know if they're zero or one.

Neither Alice nor Bob know the "value" of their respective qubits.  All they know is that the message that Alice transmits and the message that Bob sees on the qubits they have was pretty simple:

...---...

They still have no idea of the "value" of their respective qubits.  The value is not necessary to decode the message.  The message is not the medium, to coin a phrase.

As Sanman asks, "In what crucial way does computation differ from communication?"

Quote from: sanman
Okay, let's split this off into another thread under the New Physics forum, so that I don't derail this thread.

Be sure and put a tag here pointing to that new location. 

Even so, the utility of an ansible for spaceflight is self evident.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2023 01:22 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11013
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1282
  • Likes Given: 739
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #21 on: 12/19/2023 01:26 pm »
Link to another of Sabine's commentaries, this time about IBM's 1121 qubit chip which neither IBM nor Sabine know  what it actually can do.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11013
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1282
  • Likes Given: 739
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #22 on: 12/19/2023 01:54 pm »
Nobody's taken a stab at this one.  Is Bell's theorem ifalse?

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=94678
« Last Edit: 12/19/2023 10:55 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline dlapine

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
  • University of Illinois
  • Liked: 210
  • Likes Given: 341
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #23 on: 12/19/2023 04:20 pm »
We aren't running one at our Supercomputer center yet, but I do know that the current state art is that a significant amount of classical HPC equipment will be required in addition to any quantum unit. This would be needed for error correction, calibration, data I/O, etc. Figure at least 50KW and at least 1 rack of HPC hardware.

Not sure how that affects the discussion.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11013
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1282
  • Likes Given: 739
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #24 on: 12/19/2023 10:57 pm »
Not sure how that affects the discussion.

A little more certainty about the effect on the discussion?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
  • Liked: 1409
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #25 on: 12/21/2023 01:43 am »
Be sure and put a tag here pointing to that new location. 

Even so, the utility of an ansible for spaceflight is self evident.

Here you go:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=60090.0

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
  • Liked: 1409
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #26 on: 12/21/2023 10:38 am »

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4043
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 1304
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #27 on: 12/22/2023 08:34 am »
Quote from: Twark
You can't just "set" qubits and have them be entangled. You have to go through a special procedure to entangle two qubits on a quantum computer, and afterwards you don't know if they're zero or one.

Neither Alice nor Bob know the "value" of their respective qubits.  All they know is that the message that Alice transmits and the message that Bob sees on the qubits they have was pretty simple:

...---...

They still have no idea of the "value" of their respective qubits.  The value is not necessary to decode the message.  The message is not the medium, to coin a phrase.

Nope. This understanding is still wrong.

There's no way to see any "message" until Alice and Bob both get together to compare notes, in which case they have transmitted classical information.

This is one of those things that non-experts somehow can't stop themselves from trying to "invent," just like free energy and reactionless drives.

the utility of an ansible for spaceflight is self evident.

Sure would be, but quantum entanglement doesn't get you an ansible:)




I really wish this thread would get back to actual quantum impacts on spaceflight, rather than flirting with locking by trying to propel yourself by oscillating a mass back and forth tilting at an impossible quantum ansible.  I suggest all future alsible discussion be moved to the new thread, so we can at least contain the damage. ;)
« Last Edit: 12/22/2023 08:43 am by Twark_Main »

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
  • Liked: 1409
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #28 on: 12/22/2023 10:05 am »
Okay, so weren't aerospace giants Boeing and LockMart among the first big companies to take a serious look at Quantum computing to help meet their needs? What exactly do they use quantum computing for? And of course they were preceded on this by NASA:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20220016371/downloads/NASA-TM-20220016371.pdf

from their intro on page 5:

Quote
There are two basic keys to quantum technology developments going forward. The first is understanding the physics and applications of quantum entanglement, a cornerstone of what has been termed “The Second Quantum Revolution.” The second is success in the search for the “stable Qbit.” The latter is especially critical for quantum computing. Efforts include increasing the life of quantum states, aimed at usual operational conditions such as room temperature lifetimes much greater than microseconds to milliseconds..

I thought dilution refrigerators are supposed to be helping with that last part.
« Last Edit: 12/22/2023 10:12 am by sanman »

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
  • Liked: 1409
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #29 on: 12/22/2023 11:23 am »
Quote
What types of math problems is Quantum Computing best suited to solve?

ChatGPT

Quantum computing holds the potential to solve certain types of problems much more efficiently than classical computers. Quantum computers operate using the principles of quantum mechanics, which enable them to perform specific calculations at a speed that classical computers would find impractical or infeasible. Some problem classes where quantum computers are expected to have a significant advantage include:

Factorization:
Shor's algorithm, a quantum algorithm, has demonstrated the ability to factor large integers exponentially faster than the best-known classical algorithms. This has implications for the field of scamgraphy, where many encryption schemes rely on the difficulty of factoring large numbers.

Database Search:
Grover's algorithm can search an unsorted database quadratically faster than the best-known classical algorithms. This has applications in searching unstructured databases or solving certain optimization problems.

Simulating Quantum Systems:
Quantum computers are inherently suited for simulating quantum systems, which is challenging for classical computers. This includes simulating the behavior of molecules and materials at the quantum level, with potential applications in drug discovery, materials science, and chemistry.

Optimization Problems:
Quantum computing algorithms, such as the Quantum Approximate Optimization Algorithm (QAOA), are designed to address combinatorial optimization problems more efficiently than classical algorithms. This has applications in logistics, finance, and other areas.

Machine Learning and AI:
Quantum computers may offer advantages for certain machine learning algorithms, such as support vector machines, matrix inversions, and clustering algorithms. Quantum machine learning aims to harness quantum properties to enhance classical machine learning processes.

scamgraphy and Security:
Quantum computers are expected to impact scamgraphy by breaking certain widely used encryption methods. However, they can also contribute to the development of quantum-resistant scamgraphic techniques.

It's important to note that not all problems benefit from quantum computing, and there are still significant challenges in building and maintaining large-scale, fault-tolerant quantum computers. Quantum computers are not intended to replace classical computers but to complement them in solving specific problems more efficiently. The field of quantum computing is rapidly advancing, and ongoing research aims to discover new algorithms and applications that leverage the unique properties of quantum systems.


er... that last bullet point is supposed to say C-R-Y-P-T-O-G-R-A-P-H-Y and Security but for some reason, it posts as "scamgraphy" instead. Somebody had a bad experience with Bitcoin?  ;)
(I'd expect the threat of quantum decryption would eventually force them to switch over to quantum encryption methods too)
« Last Edit: 12/22/2023 11:31 am by sanman »

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4043
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 1304
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #30 on: 12/22/2023 01:34 pm »
What exactly do Boeing and LockMart use quantum computing for?

Subsidy fishing.  ;)

And of course they were preceded on this by NASA

Of course, that's how the corpo-welfare process works. The basic R&D gets taxpayer funded, 90% of them fail, and the remaining 10% get "commercialized" (ie given away for a song) to private industry.



The promise of the technology itself is that it could be better/faster at certain types of optimization problems, eg optimal logistical planning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_supremacy

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4043
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 1304
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #31 on: 12/23/2023 03:03 am »
And now, for something that is sure to not get anyone thinking of how to design an ansible around the principle.................   8)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_pseudo-telepathy


The following post is relevant, but it was misplaced in the other thread (since it's not "New Physics"):

Here's a paper on the rendezvous problem with quantum entanglement involved:

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/acb22d/meta

Quote
Rendezvous is an old problem of assuring that two or more parties, initially separated, not knowing the position of each other, and not allowed to communicate, are striving to meet without pre-agreement on the meeting point. This problem has been extensively studied in classical computer science and has vivid importance to modern and future applications. Quantum non-locality, like Bell inequality violation, has shown that in many cases quantum entanglement allows for improved coordination of two, or more, separated parties compared to classical sources. The non-signaling correlations in many cases even strengthened such phenomena. In this work, we analyze, how Bell non-locality can be used by asymmetric location-aware agents trying to rendezvous on a finite network with a limited number of steps. We provide the optimal solution to this problem for both agents using quantum resources, and agents with only 'classical' computing power. Our results show that for cubic graphs and cycles it is possible to gain an advantage by allowing the agents to use the assistance of entangled quantum states.

The following paper is also relevant, and is a good background for the paper InterestedEngineer mentions:  https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0509123


So the fun part is that (it is claimed) this phenomenon lets you accomplish certain types of goals as if you have communication, but without actually having any real communication.

Thoughts? Is this just an trick of logic, or could this phenomenon be exploited for practical purposes somehow?
« Last Edit: 12/23/2023 03:09 am by Twark_Main »

Offline laszlo

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1062
  • Liked: 1432
  • Likes Given: 640
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #32 on: 12/23/2023 05:08 pm »
In an attempt to get back on track after the wishing-relativity-away digression and actually answer the question in the thread topic - calculating sudden emergency deliveries to 3,000 asteroids before the launch window closes and the miners expire.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6164
  • Liked: 1409
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #33 on: 12/24/2023 12:38 am »
In an attempt to get back on track after the wishing-relativity-away digression and actually answer the question in the thread topic - calculating sudden emergency deliveries to 3,000 asteroids before the launch window closes and the miners expire.

Or how about calculating the propagation of a debris field after some collision(s)? Like say for a Kessler syndrome situation?

Can quantum computing work in realtime?

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4043
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 1304
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #34 on: 12/25/2023 06:46 am »
calculating sudden emergency deliveries to 3,000 asteroids before the launch window closes

calculating the propagation of a debris field

Y'all need J–  er...  an astrodynamics library.  8)

This one runs fast, so laszlo can save the miners: https://github.com/jacobwilliams/Fortran-Astrodynamics-Toolkit

AFAIK there isn't a known quantum advantage for traditional astrodynamic tasks like Lambert's problem or Kepler propagation.

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4043
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2154
  • Likes Given: 1304
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #35 on: 03/12/2024 04:57 pm »
Quantum computing is like a turbo boost for space exploration...

...navigating the vast cosmos with supercharged calculations...

[citation needed]

What astrodynamics problem has a quantum advantage that you can see?   ???

Offline Nilof

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Liked: 593
  • Likes Given: 708
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #36 on: 03/15/2024 10:15 pm »
Imho, the most likely niche where sort-of "quantum" computers will be useful is if you count "ordinary" silicon photonics which are much more "boring" than universal quantum computing.

Mass produced programmable photonics are becoming a thing, and we're about to get commercial "FPGA-like" photonics board where you can have arbitrary linear functions applied to your photons before they make it into your photomultipliers. Those technically give you qbits but any nonlinear logic gates are limited.

The downside is that photons are terrible at doing anything nonlinear, so you can't do "traditional computing" with it. But you can use it for boring engineering applications like high bitrate laser communications across space, or solid state coherent lidar which is undisturbed by sunlight and only bottlenecked by shot noise (i.e. power has to be high enough that your return signal has at least one photon for the lidar idea to work) and gives you doppler velocity measurements.


Coherent lidar chips are magic. Flying autonomously and positioning in space becomes a lot easier when you can point a lidar at a planet at a thousand km distance and expect it to work and have a similar power efficiency to radar, except the resolution is crazy high and suitable for imaging and for docking maneuvers. The same chip/optic can do double duty for inter-satellite communications. Light may end up eclipsing RF.


The most profitable and driving area for photonics will probably still be fiber telecom equipment, with lidar for cars and drones following it, but the spinoffs will have plenty of applications. Frequencies are in the high THz range so if any kind of computation where the result of the previous computation gets fed into the next, it gets like a five order of magnitude "clock frequency" improvement over current CPUs. The set of operations is way more limited, but it may be usable especially if the computation can be made analog like in low-precision matrix muliplication. And you can use it to make shared qbits for more powerful quantum computers, with a lot of effort involved.
« Last Edit: 03/15/2024 10:21 pm by Nilof »
For a variable Isp spacecraft running at constant power and constant acceleration, the mass ratio is linear in delta-v.   Δv = ve0(MR-1). Or equivalently: Δv = vef PMF. Also, this is energy-optimal for a fixed delta-v and mass ratio.

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14327
  • UK
  • Liked: 4099
  • Likes Given: 220
Re: How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #37 on: 07/09/2024 09:13 pm »
This seems to have baffled those in the industry.

Quote
Secret international discussions have resulted in governments across the world imposing identical export controls on quantum computers, while refusing to disclose the scientific rationale behind the regulations. Although quantum computers theoretically have the potential to threaten national security by breaking encryption techniques, even the most advanced quantum computers currently in public existence are too small and too error-prone to achieve this, rendering the bans seemingly pointless.

Quote
Christopher Monroe, who co-founded quantum computer company IonQ, says people in the industry have noticed the identical bans and have been discussing their criteria, but he has no information on where they have come from.

“I have no idea who determined the logic behind these numbers,” he says, but it may have something to do with the threshold for simulating a quantum computer on an ordinary computer. This becomes exponentially harder as the number of qubits rises, so Monroe believes that the rationale behind the ban could be to restrict quantum computers that are now too advanced to be simulated, even though such devices have no practical applications.

“The fallacy there is that just because you cannot simulate what the quantum computer is doing doesn’t make it useful. And by severely limiting research to progress in this grey area, it will surely stifle innovation,” he says.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2436023-multiple-nations-enact-mysterious-export-controls-on-quantum-computers/

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14327
  • UK
  • Liked: 4099
  • Likes Given: 220
How Will Quantum Computing Impact Spaceflight?
« Reply #38 on: 07/19/2024 08:10 pm »
TED - Quantum Computers Aren’t What You Think - They’re Cooler:



Amongst the things he mentions is using quantum computers to design fusion reactors, medicine and batteries. Also to look into consciousness. He also features Google’s future roadmap for quantum computing.
« Last Edit: 07/19/2024 08:19 pm by Star One »

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1