Europa Clipper

[ugordan]

The Europa Clipper launch has three S2 burns (ascent, parking orbit insertion, and Earth departure burn), so ostensibly the same problem could surface in the later burns the Clipper launch performs.

Two burns, not three. The parking orbit one and the Earth escape injection one.

[Blackstar]

One benefit of high flight rates is a tremendous amount of performance data, plus a lot of confidence in the design. That enables faster return to flight for launch vehicles.

These problems, however, raise questions about quality and safety assurance--why are they having problems now for a proven design? And why are they not catching the problems?

[ugordan]

^ this.

I can only hope that the NASA LSP people were tracking the booster all the way through manufacture and testing. Having this anomaly on a CREWED launch certainly does not help ease my (already high) paranoia for Clipper.

[Blackstar]

I can only hope that the NASA LSP people were tracking the booster all the way through manufacture and testing. Having this anomaly on a CREWED launch certainly does not help ease my (already high) paranoia for Clipper.

So that's a really interesting question--NASA pays more than commercial customers, but what do they get with that higher price? I think that one thing they get is a greater commitment to a specific launch date. But do they get more insight into the vehicle construction and testing?

[Targeteer]

Ground terminal 53 in Madrid is doing Europa Clipper testing

[Jim]

I can only hope that the NASA LSP people were tracking the booster all the way through manufacture and testing. Having this anomaly on a CREWED launch certainly does not help ease my (already high) paranoia for Clipper.

So that's a really interesting question--NASA pays more than commercial customers, but what do they get with that higher price? I think that one thing they get is a greater commitment to a specific launch date. But do they get more insight into the vehicle construction and testing?

yes

[redliox]

'Clipper is podded up in the nosecone now.

https://x.com/NASA_LSP/status/1842200426474619276

[Blackstar]

Hurricane track makes it look unlikely they will launch this week.

[ugordan]

Yeah, not good, particularly since FH has an instantaneous window each day in the launch period (no ULA-like RAAN steering). In addition to that, once they start fueling the vehicle, I think there's a 48 hr delay before they can attempt again if it scrubs, because super-chilled propellants.

A month-long launch period sounds like a lot, but it can run out pretty quickly if things conspire in a really bad way.

There might be a slight benefit in not launching on the opening of the launch period, though, in terms of LV performance requirements. Usually the C3 energy requirement is lower in the middle of the period so launching later helps with LV margins, although I'm not sure how it affects any S/C delta-V deterministic maneuver costs.

[redliox]

One of the launch requirements for a F9 is winds of less than 35mph; depending on what the storms due there could still be a chance although I'd wanna hear what experts think.  I think the following Saturday on the 12th might have better weather.

[deltaV]

Hurricane track makes it look unlikely they will launch this week.

Doesn't launch discussion belong in the launch thread (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54377.0) ?

[DanJB]

Yeah, not good, particularly since FH has an instantaneous window each day in the launch period (no ULA-like RAAN steering). In addition to that, once they start fueling the vehicle, I think there's a 48 hr delay before they can attempt again if it scrubs, because super-chilled propellants.

They added extra tanks to pad back in February to support back to back FH launch attempts

https://twitter.com/TurkeyBeaver/status/1755627686234583211?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1755627686234583211%7Ctwgr%5Ec52ed53ca82e4bb6e229fe0cddb13870b5a8e450%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.nasaspaceflight.com%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D55866.360

[Athelstane]

Yeah, not good, particularly since FH has an instantaneous window each day in the launch period (no ULA-like RAAN steering). In addition to that, once they start fueling the vehicle, I think there's a 48 hr delay before they can attempt again if it scrubs, because super-chilled propellants.

They added extra tanks to pad back in February to support back to back FH launch attempts

https://twitter.com/TurkeyBeaver/status/1755627686234583211?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1755627686234583211%7Ctwgr%5Ec52ed53ca82e4bb6e229fe0cddb13870b5a8e450%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.nasaspaceflight.com%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D55866.360

Thanks -- good to know!