They aren't intended for immersion. You'll have to get them w/o reaching the water.Which means either airborne recovery e.g. snag them with a drone, not unlike with Smart recovery, or you fly them back to land, and somehow recover them.
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 03/19/2017 09:42 pmThey aren't intended for immersion. You'll have to get them w/o reaching the water.Which means either airborne recovery e.g. snag them with a drone, not unlike with Smart recovery, or you fly them back to land, and somehow recover them.Or land them on something floating on the water.
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 03/19/2017 09:42 pmThey aren't intended for immersion. You'll have to get them w/o reaching the water.Which means either airborne recovery e.g. snag them with a drone, not unlike with Smart recovery, or you fly them back to land, and somehow recover them.Or the third option (most likely IMO), precision land them on a barge or boat.
In the absence of better information we are going round and round in circles here. I think that every possibility has been suggested by somebody at some point. By way of recap, I think these are:- mid air recovery by long range helo- mid air recovery by short range ship based helo- unmanned variant of the above- mid air recovery by fixed wing aircraft with handover to helo for landing- precision touchdown on ship/barge- precision touchdown on inflatable raft- modified PLF with aerodynamic control surfaces for flybackThe fascinating thing is that *all* of these options can be discounted as unworkable for various reasons.Have I missed any off the list?
Quote from: Kaputnik on 03/20/2017 09:17 pmIn the absence of better information we are going round and round in circles here. I think that every possibility has been suggested by somebody at some point. By way of recap, I think these are:- mid air recovery by long range helo- mid air recovery by short range ship based helo- unmanned variant of the above- mid air recovery by fixed wing aircraft with handover to helo for landing- precision touchdown on ship/barge- precision touchdown on inflatable raft- modified PLF with aerodynamic control surfaces for flybackThe fascinating thing is that *all* of these options can be discounted as unworkable for various reasons.Have I missed any off the list?How in the world is precision touchdown on ship/barge/raft unworkable?
In the absence of better information we are going round and round in circles here. I think that every possibility has been suggested by somebody at some point.
Quote from: Kaputnik on 03/20/2017 09:17 pmIn the absence of better information we are going round and round in circles here. I think that every possibility has been suggested by somebody at some point. By way of recap, I think these are:- mid air recovery by long range helo- mid air recovery by short range ship based helo- unmanned variant of the above- mid air recovery by fixed wing aircraft with handover to helo for landing- precision touchdown on ship/barge- precision touchdown on inflatable raft- modified PLF with aerodynamic control surfaces for flybackThe fascinating thing is that *all* of these options can be discounted as unworkable for various reasons.Have I missed any off the list?You can add long line dropoff from fixed wing aircraft. I don't think it was ever tried with something this big tho
Anyone have any guesses on what the glide angle of a fairing is? Perhaps with fins/winglets? And how far downrange are they released, and how fast are they going at release?
Quote from: meekGee on 03/21/2017 05:23 amQuote from: Kaputnik on 03/20/2017 09:17 pmIn the absence of better information we are going round and round in circles here. I think that every possibility has been suggested by somebody at some point. By way of recap, I think these are:- mid air recovery by long range helo- mid air recovery by short range ship based helo- unmanned variant of the above- mid air recovery by fixed wing aircraft with handover to helo for landing- precision touchdown on ship/barge- precision touchdown on inflatable raft- modified PLF with aerodynamic control surfaces for flybackThe fascinating thing is that *all* of these options can be discounted as unworkable for various reasons.Have I missed any off the list?You can add long line dropoff from fixed wing aircraft. I don't think it was ever tried with something this big thoHow does that work? Do you reel it out realky fast, to negate airspeed, or do you fly a circle with a long tow?
Quote from: Lars-J on 03/20/2017 10:00 pmQuote from: Kaputnik on 03/20/2017 09:17 pmIn the absence of better information we are going round and round in circles here. I think that every possibility has been suggested by somebody at some point. By way of recap, I think these are:- mid air recovery by long range helo- mid air recovery by short range ship based helo- unmanned variant of the above- mid air recovery by fixed wing aircraft with handover to helo for landing- precision touchdown on ship/barge- precision touchdown on inflatable raft- modified PLF with aerodynamic control surfaces for flybackThe fascinating thing is that *all* of these options can be discounted as unworkable for various reasons.Have I missed any off the list?How in the world is precision touchdown on ship/barge/raft unworkable?Airborne Systems Dragonfly precision drop system, good for 10,000 lbs, only specs a 250m accuracy.http://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ASG-DragonFly-20170206-English.pdf
But parachutes can be much more accurate. Parachute landing competitions have accuracies in the low cm range (they don't even record above 16cm, which is considered a complete miss). So I would not rule this one out, if SpaceX cares to put some work into landing accuracy.
Quote from: LouScheffer on 03/21/2017 02:48 pmBut parachutes can be much more accurate. Parachute landing competitions have accuracies in the low cm range (they don't even record above 16cm, which is considered a complete miss). So I would not rule this one out, if SpaceX cares to put some work into landing accuracy.The types of parachute used for accuracy landing competitions are distinctly unsuited to these purposes. They are designed to open at very low speed, come in at an extremely steep glide angle, and require a very small range of wind conditions (usually less than 10-15kts and steady) to achieve that level of accuracy, which you're unlikely to see in the middle of the ocean where the fairings will end up due to the poor glide angle.Swoopert.2-time British Collegiate Parachute Accuracy champion
Another one to suggest and instantly dismiss:Steerable foil landing on a moving platform (the idea being that the moving platform, e.g. a ship with a cushion on its aft deck, or towing an inflatable raft) can compensate somewhat for the inaccuracy of the incoming fairing.Having seen an episode of Top Gear where they tried landing a parachutist in the back of a moving car, it seems that moving the landing target only makes things much harder...
The catch idea seems a bit crazy to me because if you could catch a fairing, why not a second stage?