Build a spaceship in orbit

[MrrNeko]

Good evening.
As we know, we are currently limited with the shape of the ship to be as areodynamic as possible.

That is why I wanted to ask if we have the possibility of assembling a spacecraft in Earth orbit.

The assembly of the spacecraft could take place in orbit or in a specially prepared ISS module "covered dock"

Folding ships in orbit will allow us to create ships with better appearance and greater possibilities

[Jim]

Good evening.
As we know, we are currently limited with the shape of the ship to be as areodynamic as possible.

That is why I wanted to ask if we have the possibility of assembling a spacecraft in Earth orbit.

The assembly of the spacecraft could take place in orbit or in a specially prepared ISS module "covered dock"

Folding ships in orbit will allow us to create ships with better appearance and greater possibilities

Assembling would be harder on orbit.  Metal work in zero g would be difficult.  We don't have the logistics to support assembly on orbit.  That is what Starship is suppose to solve.

[TyOfNAARS]

Good evening.
As we know, we are currently limited with the shape of the ship to be as areodynamic as possible.

That is why I wanted to ask if we have the possibility of assembling a spacecraft in Earth orbit.

The assembly of the spacecraft could take place in orbit or in a specially prepared ISS module "covered dock"

Folding ships in orbit will allow us to create ships with better appearance and greater possibilities

Assembling would be harder on orbit.  Metal work in zero g would be difficult.  We don't have the logistics to support assembly on orbit.  That is what Starship is suppose to solve.

Aye, we would need a space port of some kind, in which it would be similar to NASA's giant VAB (Vehicle Assembly Building) but in space. Would need to be sealed & pressurized like the ISS (Or not). Cold-welding is a bit of a difficult problem in space.

For right now, most we can do is assemble a ISS-like ship. Module to module. We can develop a module that can contain an engine, which could then connect in to a computer system for control from a different module.

It's not impossible to build a spacecraft in orbit. Again, just as Jim stated, it's pretty difficult, as there would be a lot of different (And complex) problems to have to be figured out to have the capability in doing so, to something done regularly down the line.

I feel this would be necessary, especially if we're talking about having spacecraft powered by Nuclear Thermal propulsion or pulse propulsion. We could definitely get something going once we're on the Moon.

Somethin akin to this perhaps. lol

[r8ix]

Assembling would be harder on orbit.  Metal work in zero g would be difficult.  We don't have the logistics to support assembly on orbit.  That is what Starship is suppose to solve.

Starship is supposed to solve an entirely different problem. It just happens to solve that one, incidentally, on its way to solving its own problem.

[Jim]

Assembling would be harder on orbit.  Metal work in zero g would be difficult.  We don't have the logistics to support assembly on orbit.  That is what Starship is suppose to solve.

Starship is supposed to solve an entirely different problem. It just happens to solve that one, incidentally, on its way to solving its own problem.

No, the problem is cheap launch

[r8ix]

Assembling would be harder on orbit.  Metal work in zero g would be difficult.  We don't have the logistics to support assembly on orbit.  That is what Starship is suppose to solve.

Starship is supposed to solve an entirely different problem. It just happens to solve that one, incidentally, on its way to solving its own problem.

No, the problem is cheap launch

The problem is Mars. Cheap launch is part of the solution. Solves other problems as well.

[Jim]

The problem is Mars. Cheap launch is part of the solution. Solves other problems as well.

Wrong, everything is based on cheap launch.  Cheap launch enable Mars.  All other problems can be solved without cheap launch.  But without cheap launch, it doesn't matter if all the other problems are solved.

But Mars doesn't have to be part of the equation.  Cheap launch can exist without Mars. 

[r8ix]

The problem is Mars. Cheap launch is part of the solution. Solves other problems as well.

Wrong, everything is based on cheap launch.  Cheap launch enable Mars.  All other problems can be solved without cheap launch.  But without cheap launch, it doesn't matter if all the other problems are solved.

But Mars doesn't have to be part of the equation.  Cheap launch can exist without Mars.

<I>I</I> don’t disagree with you. But for SpaceX, the problem is Mars.

[hkultala]

<I>I</I> don’t disagree with you. But for SpaceX, the problem is Mars.

Mars is not a problem. Mars is a goal.

Too high launch cost is a problem for achieving the goal.

Starship is solution for the problem of high launch cost, to achieve the goal (Mars).

[tea monster]

High launch costs are the problem for just about any space endeavour. Why don't we have O'Neill colonies? Why don't we have solar power satellites? Why did it take us half a century to even talk about going back to the moon? Nobody could afford to pay for it.

If you reduce the cost to orbit by several magnitudes, then a lot more stuff becomes possible. Large businesses can start the ball rolling rather than just the most powerful nations on Earth. The dream of people living and working in space in large numbers can finally have a chance of happening.

Starship isn't a solution in itself to orbital construction. There is the argument that it will allow much larger parts of spacecraft to be lifted to orbit so that you need less launches to construct your on-orbit spacecraft. On the subject of an 'orbital shipyard', starship will make building such a facility much cheaper and easier, which increases the chances of someone who needs one to pull the trigger on making it.

[high road]

Good evening.
As we know, we are currently limited with the shape of the ship to be as areodynamic as possible.

That is why I wanted to ask if we have the possibility of assembling a spacecraft in Earth orbit.

The assembly of the spacecraft could take place in orbit or in a specially prepared ISS module "covered dock"

Folding ships in orbit will allow us to create ships with better appearance and greater possibilities

If you can't assemble the big ship without the dock, how are you going to assemble the dock? If you can build the dock, wouldn't it make more sense to use those techniques to assemble big ships in orbit without building a dock? Until you get to a point where there's enough demand for big things in orbit that makes the cost of building the dock smaller than any additional cost reductions from such a dock.

Edit: why not answer my own question while I should be working? Strong points. If you design the 'dock' to be able to handle massive loads practically everywhere, and outfitted to have a mobile arm move around on it to manipulate and anchor ship sections, anything built in that dock doesn't need to worry as much about construction methods and load bearing during construction.

This still assumes more than a handful of bigger ships in order to cover the cost, but far less than in my first assumption.

[Jim]

Why don't we have O'Neill colonies?
 

Don't need them

Why don't we have solar power satellites?

Won't work

[high road]

Even O'Neill said the only reason to build the first cylinders would be because that would make it cheaper to build massive numbers of SBSP platforms.

His assumed launch cost on Space Shuttle was off by a factor of 90. He only mentions the massive conversion losses once, and handwaves the difficulty of building an entire production process and supply chain to turn lunar silicates into SBSP platforms.

And, more on topic for this thread, he assumes it would be simpler in every imaginable way to do all that in microgravity or artificial gravity station rather than on the moon. That goes against all of our experiences on the ISS.

The point of this point was: the cost per kg on F9 is still a factor of five or six removed from O'Neill's assumption, and Starship will likely get to O'Neill's assumtion of 574.11$/kg (60 Space Shuttle launches for 1 billion dollars). But there are other major issues with O'Neill's vision that would need to be resolved before we ever see one.

[spacenut]

Building large spacecraft in orbit using 20 ton modules has already been proposed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus-X

Nautilus X

Now with larger rockets coming on line such as New Glenn, Vulcan, and existing Falcon Heavy, 40 ton modules could be assembled in space to build a giant Nautilus X. 

Even with Nautilus X we still have to get in space refueling, fuel depots or such.  A capsule or landing craft for access to the Nautilus X.

Also, if going to the moon or Mars a large enough lander for return to orbit of a crew or to send down cargo for a base or colony. 

A refuelable Starship solves a lot of these problems, but it can also allow for a huge Nautilus X type craft to be built, or a revolving space station. 

[Vultur]

Why don't we have solar power satellites?

Won't work

Isn't it a matter of cost, not possibility?

I tend to think batteries are probably good enough now (and likely will continue to improve) that Earth-based solar would win out. But there might be scaling issues with doing battery storage on a "most of the world's power" level, I don't know if we'll know until it's seriously tried.

[JacobTheInvestigator]

It's difficult, but nevertheless, China plans to build its own space station in orbit and has already launched the first module into orbit..?

[spacenut]

It's difficult, but nevertheless, China plans to build its own space station in orbit and has already launched the first module into orbit..?

Much smaller space station than ISS.  More like MIR the Russians put up in the 1990's. 

[floss]

Much cheaper to build  large ships on the Moon and import the hard to produce items like microchips .
  Building in orbit is like building a castle on a mountain top really expensive and you have to import everything.

[tea monster]

Much cheaper to build  large ships on the Moon and import the hard to produce items like microchips .
  Building in orbit is like building a castle on a mountain top really expensive and you have to import everything.

That's the case - once you have a shipyard on the Moon. First you have to transport all the gear to build your shipyard and the workers who will build the shipyard and the parts of the ship itself, to the surface of the Moon. Then you have to provide it's workers with air, heat and food

What you are actually describing is carrying the parts to build your castle - and all the tools to construct it - up one huge mountain (Earth's gravity well), then carrying it over to a next door, smaller peak (the Moon's gravity well), and winching all your gear and materials down the second smaller mountain and building your castle in the valley of the second peak (the lunar surface). When you are done making your castle, you still have to lift it to the top of the second peak (lunar orbit).

I'm not saying that there won't eventually be shipyards on the Moon and in Earth orbit, but saying it's easier to do on the Moon when there is nothing but dust there at the moment is ignoring several large pachyderms in the room.

[floss]

Yes there is dust but it i mostly glass which can be used for structure. Neve mind the titanium and aluminium.