Virgin Galactic - Mach 3 aircraft

[FutureSpaceTourist]

AUGUST 03, 2020
Virgin Galactic Unveils Mach 3 Aircraft Design for High Speed Travel, and Signs Memorandum of Understanding with Rolls-Royce

Company Announces Completion of Mission Concept Review Program Milestone

Virgin Galactic Holdings, Inc, a vertically integrated aerospace and space travel company, which includes its manufacturer of advanced air and space vehicles, The Spaceship Company (“TSC”), announced today the first stage design scope for the build of its high speed aircraft design, and the signing of a non-binding Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Rolls-Royce to collaborate in designing and developing engine propulsion technology for high speed commercial aircraft. This follows the successful completion of its Mission Concept Review (“MCR”) program milestone and authorization from the Federal Aviation Administration’s (“FAA”) Center for Emerging Concepts and Innovation to work with Virgin Galactic to outline a certification framework.  This marks an exciting step forward in Virgin Galactic’s development of a new generation of high speed aircraft, in partnership with industry and government leaders, with a focus on customer experience and environmental sustainability.

Rolls-Royce is a leader in the cutting-edge technologies that deliver clean, safe and competitive solutions to the planet’s vital power needs. Rolls-Royce has a proven record of delivering high Mach propulsion, powering the only civil-certified commercial aircraft (Concorde) capable of supersonic flight.

George Whitesides, Chief Space Officer, Virgin Galactic said, “We are excited to complete the Mission Concept Review and unveil this initial design concept of a high speed aircraft, which we envision as blending safe and reliable commercial travel with an unrivalled customer experience. We are pleased to collaborate with the innovative team at Rolls-Royce as we strive to develop sustainable, cutting-edge propulsion systems for the aircraft, and we are pleased to be working with the FAA to ensure our designs can make a practical impact from the start. We have made great progress so far, and we look forward to opening up a new frontier in high speed travel.”

“We are excited to partner with Virgin Galactic and TSC to explore the future of sustainable high speed flight,” said Rolls-Royce North America Chairman & CEO Tom Bell. “Rolls-Royce brings a unique history in high speed propulsion, going back to the Concorde, and offers world-class technical capabilities to develop and field the advanced propulsion systems needed to power commercially available high-Mach travel.”

The Mission Concept Review, which included representatives from NASA, is an important program milestone at which the Virgin Galactic high speed team confirmed that, based on the research and analysis work completed, its design concept can meet the high-level requirements and objectives of the mission. Previously, NASA signed a Space Act Agreement with Virgin Galactic to collaborate on high speed technologies.

The basic parameters of the initial high speed aircraft design include a targeted Mach 3 certified delta-wing aircraft that would have capacity for 9 to 19 people at an altitude above 60,000 feet and would also be able to incorporate custom cabin layouts to address customer needs, including Business or First Class seating arrangements. The aircraft design also aims to help lead the way toward use of state-of-the-art sustainable aviation fuel. Baselining sustainable technologies and techniques into the aircraft design early on is expected to also act as a catalyst to adoption in the rest of the aviation community.

The MCR concluded that the team can progress to the next phase of design, consisting of defining specific system architectures and configurations, and determining which materials to use in the design and manufacturing of the aircraft.  The team will also work to address key challenges in thermal management, maintenance, noise, emissions, and economics that routine high speed commercial flights would entail.

The design philosophy of the aircraft is geared around making high speed travel practical, sustainable, safe, and reliable, while making customer experience a top priority. Virgin Galactic is designing the aircraft for a range of operational scenarios, including service for passengers on long-distance commercial aviation routes. The aircraft would take off and land like any other passenger aircraft and be expected to integrate into existing airport infrastructure and international airspace around the world.

Virgin Galactic is working closely with international regulatory communities to ensure compliance with safety and environmental standards. Last week the FAA’s Center for Emerging Concepts and Innovation reviewed the project direction and authorized FAA resources to work with the Virgin Galactic team to begin to outline a certification framework during the pre-project guidance phase. Virgin Galactic believes that working together with regulators and industry leaders such as Rolls Royce and Boeing will support the mission to broaden and transform global travel technologies, with a focus on customer experience.

https://www.virgingalactic.com/articles/virgin-galactic-unveils-mach-3-aircraft-design-for-high-speed-travel-and-signs-memorandum-of-understanding-with-rolls-royce/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

I wonder if this project signifies that VG (Richard Branson) have cooled on the idea of using rockets  for fast point-to-point travel? (Or at least that they won’t be developing them?)

[gmbnz]

AUGUST 03, 2020
Virgin Galactic Unveils Mach 3 Aircraft Design for High Speed Travel, and Signs Memorandum of Understanding with Rolls-Royce

(snip)

You forgot the best part!

Forward-Looking Statements

This press release contains certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws with respect to Virgin Galactic Holdings, Inc. (the “Company”), including statements regarding the Company’s design and development of commercial aircraft for high-speed travel. These forward-looking statements generally are identified by words such as “believe,” “project,” “expect,” “anticipate,” “estimate,” “intend,” “strategy,” “future,” “opportunity,” “plan,” “may,” “should,” “will,” “would,” and similar expressions. Forward looking statements are predictions, projections and other statements about future events that are based on current expectations and assumptions and, as a result, are subject to risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause actual future events to differ materially from the forward-looking statements in this presentation, including but not limited to the factors, risks and uncertainties regarding the Company’s business described in the documents filed by the Company from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”). These filings identify and address other important risks and uncertainties that could cause the Company’s actual events and results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements speak only as of the date they are made. Readers are cautioned not to put undue reliance on forward-looking statements, and, except as required by law, the Company assumes no obligation and does not intend to update or revise these forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

Which I know is just there for legal reasons but to my cynical self also sounds a lot like they're saying "these are just ideas, please don't think we're actually going to do them!"

[mrhuggy]

Richard Branson always wanted Concorde in his fleet, now he gets a faster but smaller version.

Now somethings perk my interest, I wonder what the range would be as it's in the same sort of ball mark in terms of speed and size that the military could be interested in it's development. Also i wonder if the pre-cooler from Reaction Engines could improve it's performance and efficiency, saying that Reaction Engines are looking for a test platform for their engine tech as well.

[starbase]

Virgin Atlantic is still holding options for 10 Overtures from Boom Supersonic (RR is engine supplier for Overture as well). I wonder how those two projects go together... 🤔

[Eric Hedman]

Article in Tech Crunch:

https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/03/virgin-galactic-debuts-design-of-future-mach-3-high-speed-aircraft-signs-deal-with-rolls-royce/

[daedalus1]

Concorde has proved that supersonic transport is a dead end. Too expensive.
The trend is smaller fuel efficient sub sonic.
Even the jumbo jets are becoming history.

[Eric Hedman]

Concorde has proved that supersonic transport is a dead end. Too expensive.
The trend is smaller fuel efficient sub sonic.
Even the jumbo jets are becoming history.

Concorde only proved that it was too expensive.  It is yet to be determined if newer technology at a lower cost and decreased sonic booms that should be allowed to fly over land is economically feasible.

[ncb1397]

Concorde has proved that supersonic transport is a dead end. Too expensive.
The trend is smaller fuel efficient sub sonic.
Even the jumbo jets are becoming history.

Not sure that you could say that 30+ years of flights and business is a dead end. Yes, everything comes to an end...eventually. But a service time span of ~2030 to ~2060 could be plenty acceptable for this platform from a business standpoint.

[butters]

One of the reasons why Concorde became a reality while the Boeing SST did not was because the Mach 2 cruising speed allowed Concorde to use an aluminum airframe, whereas the Boeing SST would have required titanium to achieve its Mach 3 target and one-up the Europeans. So it's interesting that Virgin Galactic is aiming for a Mach 3 regime in which they'll probably need titanium or exotic composites to handle the aerothermal environment. It seems like a high price to pay versus a slightly slower supersonic jet.

[dwheeler]

Concorde has proved that supersonic transport is a dead end. Too expensive.
The trend is smaller fuel efficient sub sonic.
Even the jumbo jets are becoming history.

Concorde only proved that it was too expensive.  It is yet to be determined if newer technology at a lower cost and decreased sonic booms that should be allowed to fly over land is economically feasible.

I know their renders are probably total fiction but... they don't seem to have any design features that NASA is using with the X-59 Quiet Supersonic Technology (QueSST) demonstrator. (https://www.flightglobal.com/flight-international/nasa-and-lockheed-to-begin-x-59-supersonic-jet-tests-in-2021/138657.article) So it will be interesting to see if they're targeting over-land routes or not.

I personally think this is mostly a PR ploy... but I've grown pretty cynical of VG lately.

[Star One]

AUGUST 03, 2020
Virgin Galactic Unveils Mach 3 Aircraft Design for High Speed Travel, and Signs Memorandum of Understanding with Rolls-Royce

(snip)

You forgot the best part!

Forward-Looking Statements

This press release contains certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws with respect to Virgin Galactic Holdings, Inc. (the “Company”), including statements regarding the Company’s design and development of commercial aircraft for high-speed travel. These forward-looking statements generally are identified by words such as “believe,” “project,” “expect,” “anticipate,” “estimate,” “intend,” “strategy,” “future,” “opportunity,” “plan,” “may,” “should,” “will,” “would,” and similar expressions. Forward looking statements are predictions, projections and other statements about future events that are based on current expectations and assumptions and, as a result, are subject to risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause actual future events to differ materially from the forward-looking statements in this presentation, including but not limited to the factors, risks and uncertainties regarding the Company’s business described in the documents filed by the Company from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”). These filings identify and address other important risks and uncertainties that could cause the Company’s actual events and results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements speak only as of the date they are made. Readers are cautioned not to put undue reliance on forward-looking statements, and, except as required by law, the Company assumes no obligation and does not intend to update or revise these forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

Which I know is just there for legal reasons but to my cynical self also sounds a lot like they're saying "these are just ideas, please don't think we're actually going to do them!"

In which a poster wilfully interprets standard  legal phraseology just to put a negative spin on things.

[Lars-J]

@Star One, anything that VG announces should be taken with a good dose of skepticism.

This reads like fluff for PR purposes, and seems to be a distraction from what *should* be their main focus. So much vagueness. They don't even know what materials they want to build this thing from yet: (from the release)

"The MCR concluded that the team can progress to the next phase of design, consisting of defining specific system architectures and configurations, and determining which materials to use in the design and manufacturing of the aircraft. The team will also work to address key challenges in thermal management, maintenance, noise, emissions, and economics that routine high speed commercial flights would entail."

I give VERY low odds that this results in anything that flies.

[ncb1397]

@Star One, anything that VG announces should be taken with a good dose of skepticism.

This reads like fluff for PR purposes, and seems to be a distraction from what *should* be their main focus. So much vagueness. They don't even know what materials they want to build this thing from yet: (from the release)

"The MCR concluded that the team can progress to the next phase of design, consisting of defining specific system architectures and configurations, and determining which materials to use in the design and manufacturing of the aircraft. The team will also work to address key challenges in thermal management, maintenance, noise, emissions, and economics that routine high speed commercial flights would entail."

I give VERY low odds that this results in anything that flies.

Why? They have a history of building high performance air craft. WhiteKnightTwo is close to the record for level manned flight altitude set by U.S. military spy planes and SpaceShipTwo is similar to the X-15 in terms of flight profile. So, I wouldn't doubt that they could build a high performance aircraft. They already have...multiple times over.

[Lars-J]

@Star One, anything that VG announces should be taken with a good dose of skepticism.

This reads like fluff for PR purposes, and seems to be a distraction from what *should* be their main focus. So much vagueness. They don't even know what materials they want to build this thing from yet: (from the release)

"The MCR concluded that the team can progress to the next phase of design, consisting of defining specific system architectures and configurations, and determining which materials to use in the design and manufacturing of the aircraft. The team will also work to address key challenges in thermal management, maintenance, noise, emissions, and economics that routine high speed commercial flights would entail."

I give VERY low odds that this results in anything that flies.

Why? They have a history of building high performance air craft. WhiteKnightTwo is close to the record for level manned flight altitude set by U.S. military spy planes and SpaceShipTwo is similar to the X-15 in terms of flight profile. So, I wouldn't doubt that they could build a high performance aircraft. They already have...multiple times over.

VG is not the same organization as Scaled Composites.

[nacnud]

Just a note about Concorde. It was actually a profitable plane for British Airways but they got the planes for minimal cost and didn’t have to pay the development costs. Make of that what you will.

[ncb1397]

@Star One, anything that VG announces should be taken with a good dose of skepticism.

This reads like fluff for PR purposes, and seems to be a distraction from what *should* be their main focus. So much vagueness. They don't even know what materials they want to build this thing from yet: (from the release)

"The MCR concluded that the team can progress to the next phase of design, consisting of defining specific system architectures and configurations, and determining which materials to use in the design and manufacturing of the aircraft. The team will also work to address key challenges in thermal management, maintenance, noise, emissions, and economics that routine high speed commercial flights would entail."

I give VERY low odds that this results in anything that flies.

Why? They have a history of building high performance air craft. WhiteKnightTwo is close to the record for level manned flight altitude set by U.S. military spy planes and SpaceShipTwo is similar to the X-15 in terms of flight profile. So, I wouldn't doubt that they could build a high performance aircraft. They already have...multiple times over.

VG is not the same organization as Scaled Composites.

My understanding is that the Scaled Composites/Virgin Galactic joint venture known as The Spaceship Company(now wholly owned by Virgin Galactic) had a lot of people move over and of course they retain the IP and built the most recent SpaceShipTwos that are flying or being built. There is no perfect 1 to 1 mapping though. When we say that SpaceX developed the Falcon 9, that was largely a different team than who is still there today. Who is going to lead this team? My guess is Steve Ericson, who, while not from Scaled Composites, has worked on plenty of other high performance super sonic aircraft programs in the Lockheed Martin Skunk works - SR-71, F-22., F-35, etc.

Anyways, there really isn't much basis for the negative comments on this project as it was just announced. Curious minds would keep an open mind until they hear more about it (or don't hear more about it).

[Lars-J]

You have a point, even if the SpaceX analogy is flawed (The top leadership has been unchanged).

But my skepticism stems from the fact that they are not exactly wildly successful with SS2, something I would consider somewhat similar complexity, or simpler than a Mach 3 biz-jet/airliner. (And what is the business plan? Operator, manufacturer, or both?)

So this is seems like either an unhelpful distraction from what they need to do now - SS2 - or a cynical boost for the stock price. But I'll stop posting about this for a while now until we hear something more.

[CameronD]

Could also be the realisation, from countless flight tests, that the SS2 project is working at the pointy edge of it's envelope and will never be more than the sub-orbital joy-flight it's currently advertised to be.. and they therefore need something else to sell to Virgin's (future) travelling public.

But, as you say, better to stop posting about this until we hear something more.

[john smith 19]

Forward-Looking Statements

This press release contains certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws with respect to Virgin Galactic Holdings, Inc. (the “Company”), including statements regarding the Company’s design and development of commercial aircraft for high-speed travel. These forward-looking statements generally are identified by words such as “believe,” “project,” “expect,” “anticipate,” “estimate,” “intend,” “strategy,” “future,” “opportunity,” “plan,” “may,” “should,” “will,” “would,” and similar expressions. Forward looking statements are predictions, projections and other statements about future events that are based on current expectations and assumptions and, as a result, are subject to risks and uncertainties. Many factors could cause actual future events to differ materially from the forward-looking statements in this presentation, including but not limited to the factors, risks and uncertainties regarding the Company’s business described in the documents filed by the Company from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”). These filings identify and address other important risks and uncertainties that could cause the Company’s actual events and results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements speak only as of the date they are made. Readers are cautioned not to put undue reliance on forward-looking statements, and, except as required by law, the Company assumes no obligation and does not intend to update or revise these forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

Which I know is just there for legal reasons but to my cynical self also sounds a lot like they're saying "these are just ideas, please don't think we're actually going to do them!"

You do know this is SOP for all companies that have websites visible in the US, right?

I think you'll find something similar tucked away on any page of any company that's making a future announcement, including SX.

Concorde has proved that supersonic transport is a dead end. Too expensive.
The trend is smaller fuel efficient sub sonic.
Even the jumbo jets are becoming history.

Not sure that you could say that 30+ years of flights and business is a dead end. Yes, everything comes to an end...eventually. But a service time span of ~2030 to ~2060 could be plenty acceptable for this platform from a business standpoint.

You forgot the near perfect safety record, which only came to an end because a carelessly operated over loaded and over fueled flight killed every passenger on board

Concorde has proved that supersonic transport is a dead end. Too expensive.
The trend is smaller fuel efficient sub sonic.
Even the jumbo jets are becoming history.

That's a rather backward looking view of history. 

The 747 is basically a 50YO design. I'm quite sure there are many  things Boeing would do differently if it was designing a replacement.