Author Topic: LIVE: Congressional Hearings into Obama's NASA Budget FY2011 - Feb 24-25 Part 2  (Read 349667 times)

Offline clb22

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No it wasn't. He mentioned not canceling the current Cx contracts and continuing testing with the parts. You are grasping at straws, there will be no rubber stamping here ! ;)

Just wait and see.
Spirals not circles, Mr. President. Spirals!

Offline clb22

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So, was anyone in favor of the PoR?
No, and that's a key point, even Vitter agreed the PoR was a bad plan and the funding wasn't enough. Nobody wants to continue the PoR which means there needs to be an alternative. As noone in the decision making process in Congress except the WH and NASA have come up with one (and noone will) the new direction will move forward, with some changes of course but within the new framework. Cx is dead.
« Last Edit: 02/24/2010 09:14 pm by clb22 »
Spirals not circles, Mr. President. Spirals!

Offline mmeijeri

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Lots of people confidently state all the signs point to their concept winning. They can't all be right and it looks like posturing to me. I'm really happy with Obama's proposals, but I'm not at all confident about what Congress will do. I don't think anyone can be certain.
Pro-tip: you don't have to be a jerk if someone doesn't agree with your theories

Offline Davie OPF

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Twitter comment about Snyder's appearance.

@NASASpaceflight: Shuttle has a new hero, his name, Mr. Michael J. Snyder - he was awesome at the Senate hearing.

I totally agree with that Twitter.

Offline Bill White

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No it wasn't. He mentioned not canceling the current Cx contracts and continuing testing with the parts. You are grasping at straws, there will be no rubber stamping here ! ;)

Just wait and see.

Yes we will.  ;)

Further commentary prior to new news would be idle cheerleading. Fun, perhaps, but unproductive.
EML architectures should be seen as ratchet opportunities

Offline Bill White

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Lots of people confidently state all the signs point to their concept winning. They can't all be right and it looks like posturing to me. I'm really happy with Obama's proposals, but I'm not at all confident about what Congress will do. I don't think anyone can be certain.

Concur completely.
EML architectures should be seen as ratchet opportunities

Offline mr_magoo

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I thought shuttle extension was dealt a blow with Bolden coming out against it.  I think they would have to have more talks about it and if he really doesnt want it,  it won't happen.

Online Chris Bergin

I thought shuttle extension was dealt a blow with Bolden coming out against it.  I think they would have to have more talks about it and if he really doesnt want it,  it won't happen.

Doesn't help, but Bolden is simply a mouthpiece for Obama's plan and Obama's plan kills shuttle. He was never going to go against Obama's plan.
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Offline fajitapita

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I thought shuttle extension was dealt a blow with Bolden coming out against it.  I think they would have to have more talks about it and if he really doesnt want it,  it won't happen.

If it does not happen then what??? Hope commercial comes through. Just cant see putting all cards in one basket. Would seem Orion would continue either way.

Offline TexasRED

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I thought shuttle extension was dealt a blow with Bolden coming out against it.  I think they would have to have more talks about it and if he really doesnt want it,  it won't happen.

This is what I thought. I applaud Mike Snyder's talks, probably the best out of today's, but Bolden seems really against extending shuttle.  Didn't he call it "Russian Roulette" or something before? I thought Snyder's rebuttal of "other colorful language" used to describe SSP could have been about that comment.

Offline northanger

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I thought shuttle extension was dealt a blow with Bolden coming out against it.  I think they would have to have more talks about it and if he really doesnt want it,  it won't happen.

Doesn't help, but Bolden is simply a mouthpiece for Obama's plan and Obama's plan kills shuttle. He was never going to go against Obama's plan.

Chris you know better! VSE ended shuttle at 2010.

Offline Roo

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What a show. Even the most pro current budget supporters could not in their heart, fail to realise the awful mistake this budget is.

I actually felt really sorry for Charlie Bolden. For a second - just a second - I thought he was going to finally give in to his true feelings but composed himself well. By his refusal to answer a straight question, it is clear he knew the answer to Sen. Vitter's question about the prime architect. That's just sheer common sense.

When 3/4 of the panel and interviewees (of which many were of great standing) politely slammed the budget proposal, plus all the general furore about it everywhere else - how can you possibly defend it?

I thought Robert 'Hoot' Gibson and Mike Snyder were so detailed and truthful that they made Charlie Bolden look, simply but sadly, highly inadequate. Poor Charlie seems to have had both his hands tied behind his back with a tape recorder on loop for a voice.

Things are most definitely going to change - that is the one overriding impression I got from the entire day's proceedings. Hopefully with a much needed shuttle extension. When such an engineer of Mike Snyder's standing stands up to say why we need it, I'd believe him over any of the naysayers despite all their expected protestations to the contrary.

It was all very neatly tied in to all the other howling errors on offer by this new budget and I for one, greatly look forward to the coming months.

Roo.

Offline psloss

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Lots of people confidently state all the signs point to their concept winning. They can't all be right and it looks like posturing to me. I'm really happy with Obama's proposals, but I'm not at all confident about what Congress will do. I don't think anyone can be certain.

Concur completely.
I agree about the uncertainty.  We'll start to see what they want to do with the language in the authorization bills that come out of committee.  At that point, we'll see what kind of confrontation there could be.  (And still not know the outcome.)
« Last Edit: 02/24/2010 09:27 pm by psloss »

Offline mr_magoo

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So, was anyone in favor of the PoR?
No, and that's a key point, even Vitter agreed the PoR was a bad plan and the funding wasn't enough. Nobody wants to continue the PoR which means there needs to be an alternative. As noone in the decision making process in Congress except the WH and NASA have come up with one (and noone will) the new direction will move forward, with some changes of course but within the new framework. Cx is dead.

Did Vitter say it was a bad plan or just underfunded?

I didnt really get what he wanted.  He just seemed "mad as hell and not going to take it anymore".

Offline Cog_in_the_machine

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What a show. Even the most pro current budget supporters could not in their heart, fail to realise the awful mistake this budget is.

It's not a mistake. It needs some sort of compromise though (shuttle extension most likely)
« Last Edit: 02/24/2010 09:30 pm by Cog_in_the_machine »
^^ Warning! Contains opinions. ^^ 

Offline cozmicray

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I think I heard a good point.
This "Plan" was created by OMB.
Accepted by Obama.
Forced on NASA.

Now OMB  system engineering our HSF ????

???? Lets develop VentureStar
          oops to hard   cancel it
       Lets develop CRV
          oops to hard   cancel it
       Lets develop ISS
          not really use it for much
            oops  de-orbit it
       Lets develop Constellation
          oops not enough money -- cancel it

When is NASA going to system engineer a "plan",
       a vision,  and ask  "We need this $$$ to do this"

 :o

Offline Halidon

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What a show. Even the most pro current budget supporters could not in their heart, fail to realise the awful mistake this budget is.

It's not a mistake. It needs some sort of compromise though (shuttle extension most realistically)
I don't think that's the right word there.

Offline Cog_in_the_machine

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What a show. Even the most pro current budget supporters could not in their heart, fail to realise the awful mistake this budget is.

It's not a mistake. It needs some sort of compromise though (shuttle extension most realistically)
I don't think that's the right word there.

I changed it. Are you happy?

And yeah it seems like that's the easiest way to go if you want to keep the workforce happy, retain the capability to service the ISS properly and not have to do any R&D.
« Last Edit: 02/24/2010 09:37 pm by Cog_in_the_machine »
^^ Warning! Contains opinions. ^^ 

Offline zerm

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After watching the earlier House hearings, I expected some fire here, but... wow! This was quite a day.

My bet is that this is going to come out in a way that no one who is firmly dug in on any one program (i.e. Direct, or POR, or pure commercial, or Falcon 9 etc.) expects. I was also a bit suprised by Nelson's hard line toward a LOX/RP1 F-1 styled engine.. that was somewhat unexpected.

I'd say look for it all to morph into something such as- restored and protected NASA HSF plus a very few Ares I-X style test flights followed by some in-line HLV development launches all with the BEO goal, added to it could be a Shuttle extension (Long enough to see if those "commercial" operators can actually come up to the task of LEO ISS taxies in the timeframe they claim). Of course, if a Falcon 9 blows up a lot of bets will be off- even if the other newspace operations are running smoothly- Congressional perception of such an event would be really bad.

No matter what- the Obama budget for NASA will not stand as-is. NASA HSF will have to be restored and a firm goal set before the Congress will allow it.

Offline Robotbeat

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I think I heard a good point.
This "Plan" was created by OMB.
Accepted by Obama.
Forced on NASA.

Now OMB  system engineering our HSF ????

???? Lets develop VentureStar
          oops to hard   cancel it
       Lets develop CRV
          oops to hard   cancel it
       Lets develop ISS
          not really use it for much
            oops  de-orbit it
       Lets develop Constellation
          oops not enough money -- cancel it

When is NASA going to system engineer a "plan",
       a vision,  and ask  "We need this $$$ to do this"

 :o
ISS is no longer being deorbited in five years. It has been extended (in this current budget) to 2020. There's talk of extending it further. Lots of NASA's canceled projects have been reborn in commercial companies (VASIMR, Transhab now Bigelow modules, SLI engines like the RS-84 and RS-83 have been licensed by SpaceX, an Orion-derivative is going to be one or two of the commercial crew bids, etc.).
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

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