It doesn't take a genius to see that Artemis accords are an attempt to create international norms by unilateral action rather then an international consensus. The likely outcome will be China launching suit in court the moment someone tries to actually sell lunar material which will tie everything up in court for decades until a real international agreement is reached between all nations, not just a subset of those with a Space program.
They were intentionally designed to be unpalatable to Russia and China
Quote from: Lodrig on 04/04/2021 05:47 amIt doesn't take a genius to see that Artemis accords are an attempt to create international norms by unilateral action rather then an international consensus. The likely outcome will be China launching suit in court the moment someone tries to actually sell lunar material which will tie everything up in court for decades until a real international agreement is reached between all nations, not just a subset of those with a Space program.There is an obvious logical flaw here, people are trying to have it both ways. If it is true that China want to "mine the moon", and a create a space-based industrial revolution, then they will be in favor of exactly those provisions in Artemis that allow people to own what they mine.If it is expected that China will object to people selling lunar material, then the idea that there is a new space race to mine resources disappears.In fact, if the principle that mined resources can be owned is upheld, then that is exactly what has enabled a new space race! Be careful what you wish for. It is blatantly hypocritical to pass laws enabling something, then calling out someone else for doing exactly what you have enabled. If the US did not want to initiate a land grab, they should have though it through a lot more carefully.I think if Russia and China sign their own accords, one principle they will adopt is that of being able to own mined resources, otherwise spending money on moon bases is a waste of money.
There is no land grab. In no way do the Artemis Accords suggest that you can own land on a celestial body.
Quote from: Frogstar_Robot on 04/05/2021 02:09 pmQuote from: Lodrig on 04/04/2021 05:47 amIt doesn't take a genius to see that Artemis accords are an attempt to create international norms by unilateral action rather then an international consensus. The likely outcome will be China launching suit in court the moment someone tries to actually sell lunar material which will tie everything up in court for decades until a real international agreement is reached between all nations, not just a subset of those with a Space program.There is an obvious logical flaw here, people are trying to have it both ways. If it is true that China want to "mine the moon", and a create a space-based industrial revolution, then they will be in favor of exactly those provisions in Artemis that allow people to own what they mine.If it is expected that China will object to people selling lunar material, then the idea that there is a new space race to mine resources disappears.In fact, if the principle that mined resources can be owned is upheld, then that is exactly what has enabled a new space race! Be careful what you wish for. It is blatantly hypocritical to pass laws enabling something, then calling out someone else for doing exactly what you have enabled. If the US did not want to initiate a land grab, they should have though it through a lot more carefully.I think if Russia and China sign their own accords, one principle they will adopt is that of being able to own mined resources, otherwise spending money on moon bases is a waste of money.There is no land grab. In no way do the Artemis Accords suggest that you can own land on a celestial body. The OST is very clear that you cannot and the Artemis Accords do not contradict this. The Artemis Accords only says that you are allowed to extract and use space resources. The ownership of the resources is actually left to domestic law (i.e. the 2015 U.S. Commercial Space Launch Competitiveness Act) or to a future multilateral treaty.
Quote from: yg1968 on 04/05/2021 03:23 pmThere is no land grab. In no way do the Artemis Accords suggest that you can own land on a celestial body.That is correct, but the "safety zones" could be interpreted as a land grab.
The trouble is that the safety zones are soo vague they can be exclusion zones. China could put something in atkin crater and claim it needs a 100 mile exclusion zone for safety - basically owning the crater. "Operations" doesn't need to be manned. It would be easy to keep some robot designed for longevity to operate there.I'm not saying this is whats gonna happen, but the history of exploration speaks against the outer space treaty.
-The size and scope of the safety zone should be determined in a reasonable manner leveraging commonly accepted scientific and engineering principles. -Safety zones will ultimately be temporary, ending when the relevant operation ceases.-The Signatories commit to respect reasonable safety zones to avoid harmful interference with operations under these Accords, including by providing prior notification to and coordinating with each other before conducting operations in a safety zone established pursuant to these Accords.-The Signatories commit to respect the principle of free access to all areas of celestial bodies and all other provisions of the Outer Space Treaty in their use of safety zones.
Germany and Russia are correct, the moon is for everyone.
Read this article by @RossanaDeplano1 right now! Serious international law scholarship about the #ArtemisAccords.
QuoteSouth Korea is in last-minute negotiations with the United States to join NASA’s Artemis program, a news outlet here reported May 18, citing government sources.https://spacenews.com/south-korea-to-join-nasas-artemis-project-reports/
South Korea is in last-minute negotiations with the United States to join NASA’s Artemis program, a news outlet here reported May 18, citing government sources.
The word out of Seoul is that an Artemis agreement is teed up for the S. Korean president's May 21 summit with Joe Biden in Washington.
Quote from: Brian BergerThe word out of Seoul is that an Artemis agreement is teed up for the S. Korean president's May 21 summit with Joe Biden in Washington.
