Quote from: LM13 on 11/14/2016 08:17 pm[...] Strictly speaking, all the technology needed to actually run a Mars colony once you get there could be built with nineteenth-century or early twentieth-century industry--nitrogen-fixing for fertilizer, the Fischer-Tropsch process, steelworking, turbines, electric motors, none of these require computers. [...] I'm honestly drawing a blank as to which bare necessities for continued metabolism on Mars can't be made with the tools available to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The big missing piece is the energy supply. The Austro-Hungarian empire had fuels (wood, coal, oil) they could burn for power and heat. Nothing on Mars, as far as I know, can burn in the Martian atmosphere. You might be able to build big solar collecting mirrors that concentrate heat, to heat stuff for chemistry or metallurgy, or to boil water to turn engines. However, sunlight is not a very dense form of energy, and not available at night. Everything else could be managed, *if* you have enough energy, but getting the energy seems the limiting problem.
[...] Strictly speaking, all the technology needed to actually run a Mars colony once you get there could be built with nineteenth-century or early twentieth-century industry--nitrogen-fixing for fertilizer, the Fischer-Tropsch process, steelworking, turbines, electric motors, none of these require computers. [...] I'm honestly drawing a blank as to which bare necessities for continued metabolism on Mars can't be made with the tools available to the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 11/16/2016 06:37 amQuote from: LouScheffer on 11/15/2016 12:59 amOn second thought, the Austro-Hungarian empire could have built a nuclear reactor, if they knew what to do. To make and maintain one of these, you need the ability to mine and purify carbon and uranium, and the rest is pretty simple mechanical engineering. The Germans tried and failed to build a reactor with Graphite in WWII. Their Graphite was contaminated with Boron and the either did not not have, or did not know they needed a process to remove enough of it to let the reaction go critical.And then you're going to need a coal mine on Mars for the source of the Graphite. There is likely no coal on Mars (it's from old biology), so I was assuming that they would get the graphite from CO2 in the atmosphere. This should also have no appreciable boron or other contamination. I'm more worried about the uranium supply.
Quote from: LouScheffer on 11/15/2016 12:59 amOn second thought, the Austro-Hungarian empire could have built a nuclear reactor, if they knew what to do. To make and maintain one of these, you need the ability to mine and purify carbon and uranium, and the rest is pretty simple mechanical engineering. The Germans tried and failed to build a reactor with Graphite in WWII. Their Graphite was contaminated with Boron and the either did not not have, or did not know they needed a process to remove enough of it to let the reaction go critical.And then you're going to need a coal mine on Mars for the source of the Graphite.
On second thought, the Austro-Hungarian empire could have built a nuclear reactor, if they knew what to do. To make and maintain one of these, you need the ability to mine and purify carbon and uranium, and the rest is pretty simple mechanical engineering.
There are many items that have fixed costs no matter the LV size.
Jeff Bezos: reusable rockets will let a trillion people colonise the solar systemBy Jamie Carter 11 hours ago World of tech Apollo 11 Gala sees Amazon & Blue Origin chief present his vision of space exploration
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 12/04/2016 04:32 pmThere are many items that have fixed costs no matter the LV size. .. such as? Which fixed costs are similar between Pegasus, Dnepr and Atlas V?
http://www.techradar.com/news/jeff-bezos-reusable-rockets-will-let-a-trillion-people-colonising-the-solar-systemWe should build permanent settlements on the Moon's poles where we can get water and solar power.
Bezos is a slow and steady guy.
Bezos is a slow and steady guy. He also has seemingly sufficient funds at least for the next decade, to keep funding development at the rate of $1B/yr.
That is a total of development funds of $10B. SpaceX development spending so far over 15 years is a lot less.
Consider another alternative.We know that Musk almost went bankrupt with Falcon 1.Private space has been known to make big millionaires into little ones. Many examples.What if Bezos has a similar experience? Could you imagine what that might mean for the colossal cost that might be?
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 07/17/2017 02:47 pmBezos is a slow and steady guy.We're not getting any younger here.
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 07/18/2017 03:14 amConsider another alternative.We know that Musk almost went bankrupt with Falcon 1.Private space has been known to make big millionaires into little ones. Many examples.What if Bezos has a similar experience? Could you imagine what that might mean for the colossal cost that might be?I also think Jeff Bezos is being more gradual in his choice of goals than Elon Musk. Starting with suborbital was no guarantee of success but I think it pretty much guaranteed that he would not run out of money. Blue might have failed and given up but hard to imagine many billions being lost (at least given a sound choice of architecture).To bring it back more to this thread, I also think focussing on CISLunar & industry - while still very ambitious - is more likely than Mars and colonisation. Not least because there a number of others looking to work in that space (such as ULA and Bigelow). Also I think more likely, in time, to secure federal funding.
Quote from: QuantumG on 07/18/2017 01:35 amQuote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 07/17/2017 02:47 pmBezos is a slow and steady guy.We're not getting any younger here.Bezos doesn't care.
Quote from: woods170 on 07/18/2017 07:12 amBezos doesn't care.... and therefore I don't care. If I want a boring slowpoke program to watch I'll follow China... or NASA.
Bezos doesn't care.
Quote from: woods170 on 07/18/2017 07:12 amQuote from: QuantumG on 07/18/2017 01:35 amQuote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 07/17/2017 02:47 pmBezos is a slow and steady guy.We're not getting any younger here.Bezos doesn't care.... and therefore I don't care. If I want a boring slowpoke program to watch I'll follow China... or NASA.
Bezos outlines vision of colonizing the solar system