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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Falcon Missions Section => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 04/09/2012 04:07 pm

Title: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/09/2012 04:07 pm
THIS IS THE SPECIFIC UPDATE THREAD.

FOR SPECIFIC NON UPDATES AND GENERAL DISCUSSION, SEE THIS THREAD:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28486.0

Please note the difference between this thread and the discussion thread.


Resources:

Thread 1 (1000 posts, 150,000 reads):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23538.0

Thread 2 (1700 posts, 280,000 reads):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26616.0


Links:
SpaceX Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions, non updates.

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/


Recent COTS2/3 Specific articles:

NASA managers aligning to combine final Dragon COTS test missions:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/05/nasa-aligning-combine-final-dragon-cots-missions/

ISS managers evaluating SpaceX via safety reviews ahead of debut arrival:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/08/iss-managers-spacex-test-safety-reviews-ahead-debut-arrival/

ISS Managers Conduct Expedition 29 FRR, Prepare Station for Post-Shuttle Ops - by Pete Harding:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/08/iss-managers-expedition-29-frr-prepare-station-post-shuttle-operations/

ISS partners prepare to welcome SpaceX and Orbital in a busy 2012 - by Pete Harding:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/10/iss-partners-welcome-spacex-orbital-busy-2012/

ISS Community reviews Station Progress, Anomalies, and Upcoming Flights - by Chris Gebhardt:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/10/iss-community-reviews-station-progress-anomalies-upcoming-flights/

SpaceX Dragon ISS flight to slip further, pending combined mission approval:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/12/spacex-dragon-flight-slipping-further-combined-approval/

NASA managers announce February 7 launch date for Dragon ISS mission:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/12/nasa-february-7-launch-date-dragon-iss-mission/

ISS performs hardware and software upgrades to support inaugural Dragon visit - by Pete Harding:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/01/iss-hardware-software-upgrades-support-inaugural-dragon-visit/

Dragon ISS flight slips – SpaceX determined to return US crewed access to LEO:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/01/dragon-slips-spacex-determined-return-us-crewed-access-leo/

SpaceX team conduct successful Falcon 9 WDR ahead of Dragon’s ISS debut:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/03/spacex-successful-falcon-9-wdr-dragons-iss-debut/


L2 SpaceX Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=tags&tags=SpaceX

L2 SpaceX Dragon C2/C3 Mission Special (NEW - Exclusively acquired pre-launch and Mission Coverage, Presentations, Graphics, Videos, Updates):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=54.0
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dsobin on 04/09/2012 04:30 pm
Thanks Chris. I hope the presence of a discussion thread will keep this update thread on track.

I just looked through the available Dragon photos and I still am not certain about whether there is or is not a window in the capsule. Does anyone know for sure about this?

Edit: By "the capsule", I'm referring to the one about to be launched. (update thread, you know).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jason1701 on 04/09/2012 04:43 pm
The pressure vessel has windows, but they were covered up.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Orbiter on 04/09/2012 06:52 pm
For anyone who's wondering -

04/16/12 - Flight Readiness Review (FRR)
04/25/12 - Static fire.
04/30/12 - Launch at 12:22 p.m. EDT
  - Next Launch opportunity if no launch on the 30th, May 3rd, 2012.
  - Launch opportunities consist of a 3 day pattern, so after May 3rd would be May 6th, 2012.
05/02/12 - Dragon approaches the International Space Station.
05/03/12 - Berthing to Node 2 - "Harmony" Module nadir port.
05/04/12 - Spacecraft opening.
05/21/12 - Undocking and Landing.

Orbiter
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/09/2012 07:12 pm

  - Launch opportunities consist of a 3 day pattern, so after May 3rd would be May 6th, 2012.


Not entirely true, there are other range users, and hence Spacex does not get to repeat indefinitely.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: apace on 04/09/2012 07:17 pm
Not entirely true, there are other range users, and hence Spacex does not get to repeat indefinitely.

So, can you give more informations? How many 3 day patterns, which blocked dates?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/09/2012 07:19 pm
How many 3 day patterns, which blocked dates?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg881649#msg881649

May 5 - AEHF-2 - Atlas V 531 - Canaveral SLC-41 - 18:38-20:38

Add in time for range reconfig and draw your own conclusion.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Orbiter on 04/09/2012 08:18 pm

  - Launch opportunities consist of a 3 day pattern, so after May 3rd would be May 6th, 2012.


Not entirely true, there are other range users, and hence Spacex does not get to repeat indefinitely.

Good point, I've forgotten that the Atlas V now is on the range for May 5th.

Orbiter
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/10/2012 12:47 am
Interesting NASA billboard at KSC Visitor Complex. Kind of brought out the kid in me. It reminds me of something else from years past. Only this time it's very real. Definitely an E ticket attraction.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/11/2012 11:05 pm
First pre-launch article will be tomorrow (at the pre-FRR meeting mark). Next will be on FRR day next week.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: racshot65 on 04/12/2012 02:23 pm
Cross post from the ISS section ...

Some video of the crew practicing the SpaceX robotic operations on this ISS update. (Starts at 3:55 ish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUbTXSJWWM&context=C4dad199ADvjVQa1PpcFMhjjwBMDI6l_AnAo8yT5GFNEHEh7f2jjA= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUbTXSJWWM&context=C4dad199ADvjVQa1PpcFMhjjwBMDI6l_AnAo8yT5GFNEHEh7f2jjA=)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/12/2012 06:02 pm
From the same exercise, probably:

http://twitter.com/#/astro_andre/status/190350643427426304

"Practicing on the ISS simulator for the arrival of the 1st commercial spacecraft, SpaceX's Dragon, early May."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/12/2012 06:09 pm
From the same exercise, probably:

http://twitter.com/#/astro_andre/status/190350643427426304

"Practicing on the ISS simulator for the arrival of the 1st commercial spacecraft, SpaceX's Dragon, early May."

That's the ROBoT - the Robotics On Board Trainer. It's basically a lower fidelity Robotics Workstation (RWS - used to control the real arm), but instead of controlling the real arm, it controls a virtual arm on a laptop screen.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/12/2012 11:22 pm
First of the prelaunch articles via L2's Dragon Mission Special Section:

ISS translates robotic assets in preparation to greet SpaceX’s Dragon:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/04/iss-robotic-arm-preparation-greet-spacexs-dragon/

Will give it a standalone thread.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/13/2012 05:21 pm
NASA April 16th Mission Briefing

Briefing participants include:
-- William Gerstenmaier, NASA associate administrator for Human Exploration and Operations
-- Michael Suffredini, International Space Station program manager
-- Alan Lindenmoyer, Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program manager
-- Elon Musk, SpaceX chief executive officer and chief designer
-- Holly Ridings, NASA flight director

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/news/releases/2012/release-20120402b.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/13/2012 05:48 pm
Is this activity based on an assumption that the mission flies as scheduled, or has the decision already been made and NASA are simply waiting for the appropriate committees to rubber-stamp it?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/13/2012 06:03 pm
Up until the press conference April 30th is still a NET time. I would suspect a basic go no go though at this time. Either way unless something is way wrong or Dragon simply needs more testing, I would think that the BASIC time frame will hold. There is no accounting for last minute delays. Although I'm not a L2 subscriber, I'm hearing rumors about stressing the NET portion. I hope to join up this next week just in time for pre launch activities. Tax issues for me have had to come first, unfortunately.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/13/2012 06:06 pm
Yeah, have to wait for the FRR to be sure, but even if April 30th stays, the launch window is instantaneous (and weather is not always cooperative, neither are sailors), so there's a pretty good chance of a scrub and launching in early May anyway.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/13/2012 06:40 pm
This just in....

Elon Musk on NASA approval of Dragon -" it has to go through a very rigorous set of safety and reliability requirements and pass all those, WHICH WE JUST GOT OUR APPROVAL LAST WEEK. That was the toughest thing."

http://www.space.com/15267-elon-musk-private-space-challenges.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: iamlucky13 on 04/13/2012 09:39 pm
Is this activity based on an assumption that the mission flies as scheduled, or has the decision already been made and NASA are simply waiting for the appropriate committees to rubber-stamp it?

I would assume it moving the SSRMS into position, since it is something that needs to be done, was simply convenient to do now, and that they don't have any other high priority robotic ops planned that would require it to position elsewhere. There's little reason not get simple tasks like this out of the way early

The final launch decision is, as always, dependent on the reviews, both at NASA and less formally at SpaceX. It's not a rubber-stamping formality, but part of everyone involved making sure everything is really ready.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Orbiter on 04/15/2012 07:39 pm
CBS Space News reporting that the COTS-2/3 launch is not at 12:22 pm, but at 4:22 pm.

Orbiter
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 04/15/2012 08:09 pm
CBS Space News reporting that the COTS-2/3 launch is not at 12:22 pm, but at 4:22 pm.
Yes, 16:22 GMT, which would be 12:22 local.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Moe Grills on 04/16/2012 02:49 am
  Now I wonder if there is or will be a webcam of sorts installed inside
the Dragon?

 If there is/will be, then it would be neat if SpaceX were to allow John Q
Public access to the video images by internet during its orbital mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 07:02 am
Not sure if this has been posted but its a presentation from February 23rd and it has a lot of info on the upcoming flight.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/627984main_4-Status%20of%20COTS_508.pdf
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: happyflower on 04/16/2012 08:38 am
Not sure if this has been posted but its a presentation from February 23rd and it has a lot of info on the upcoming flight.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/627984main_4-Status%20of%20COTS_508.pdf

Not real good with charts. Are the charts for SpaceX basically saying that there will only be this one test flight this year? And the first cargo flight will be in 2013?

Thanks
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: woods170 on 04/16/2012 09:42 am
Not sure if this has been posted but its a presentation from February 23rd and it has a lot of info on the upcoming flight.

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/627984main_4-Status%20of%20COTS_508.pdf

Not real good with charts. Are the charts for SpaceX basically saying that there will only be this one test flight this year? And the first cargo flight will be in 2013?

Thanks
No. First attempt for C2/C3 is planned for April (demo 2). Next flight (either a C2/C3 re-attempt, or CRS-1) is scheduled for late July, early August. And that's all tentatively.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 01:21 pm
FRR has begun. Expecting April 30, with the only wildcard via L2 being the Range (questions about F9, scrubs, then reconfig for Atlas V, then reconfig again for F9 being a pain). Not expected to be big issue in recent days.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/16/2012 01:42 pm
FRR has begun. Expecting April 30, with the only wildcard via L2 being the Range (questions about F9, scrubs, then reconfig for Atlas V, then reconfig again for F9 being a pain). Not expected to be big issue in recent days.
So what are the chances of acceptable weather on April 30 ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/16/2012 02:26 pm
NASA Twitter feed now posting periodic live updates from FRR.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/16/2012 02:28 pm
NASA Twitter feed now posting periodic live updates from FRR.

http://twitter.com/#/NASA
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 02:36 pm
FRR has begun. Expecting April 30, with the only wildcard via L2 being the Range (questions about F9, scrubs, then reconfig for Atlas V, then reconfig again for F9 being a pain). Not expected to be big issue in recent days.
So what are the chances of acceptable weather on April 30 ;)

Heh. A bit of a weather watch would be a very nice redux moment for shuttle fans :)

By the way, Pete Harding's drafted an awesome article for today. Really is meaty!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 02:40 pm
NASA Twitter feed now posting periodic live updates from FRR.

http://twitter.com/#/NASA

And that's an actual PAO in the actual meeting (not sure, but could be, Josh Byerly). They started this during the latter Agency FRRs for Shuttle.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rdale on 04/16/2012 02:53 pm
So what are the chances of acceptable weather on April 30 ;)

Heh. A bit of a weather watch would be a very nice redux moment for shuttle fans :)

L2 request for launch criteria? I think it's safe to say it won't be as strict as the shuttle's ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 03:30 pm
Sounds like one, Rob.

Latest @NASA was:

"Holly Ridings still presenting. Station will only have 3 crew on board during SpaceX flight, so she's talking the crew's schedule."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: gregpet on 04/16/2012 03:42 pm
NASA TV Daily Schedule (All Programs Eastern Time Zone)

April 16, Monday
NET 3 p.m. – ISS SpaceX/Dragon Post-Flight Readiness Review Preflight Briefing – JSC (All Channels)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/16/2012 04:00 pm
Sounds like one, Rob.

Latest @NASA was:

"Holly Ridings still presenting. Station will only have 3 crew on board during SpaceX flight, so she's talking the crew's schedule."


Should we just call it "The Holly Ridings Show?"  ;)
With guest appearances by a few people from SpaceX.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 04:39 pm
Sounds like one, Rob.

Latest @NASA was:

"Holly Ridings still presenting. Station will only have 3 crew on board during SpaceX flight, so she's talking the crew's schedule."


Should we just call it "The Holly Ridings Show?"  ;)
With guest appearances by a few people from SpaceX.

Her show is over. :D

"International partners now presenting at SpaceX Flight Readiness Review"
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 05:13 pm
Here we go!

@NASA

NASA Associate Administrator Gerstenmaier is about to poll the Flight Readiness Review board for "go" or "no go" on SpaceX launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 05:30 pm
Hmm, strange wording:

@NASA

SpaceX demo flight Flight Readiness Review is complete. Post-FRR news conference from JSC is tentatively set for 2:30 pm CDT/3:30 pm EDT.

No launch date, not the usual "Go". Probably teasing :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 06:03 pm
I understand there's nothing to worry about. Just requires the next steps towards the launch date to be explained in context at the post FRR presser. We'll cover that in here.

It's not the exact same process as shuttle, with its three day launch countdown etc.

Holding Pete's article until then. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rdale on 04/16/2012 06:23 pm
Press conference is 2:30pm Central and it will be on NASA TV.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:18 pm
Presser in 10 mins. Anyone got a good VLC link, as http://www.nasa.gov/145590main_Digital_Media.asx isn't working.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/16/2012 07:23 pm
I can't help you with the VLC links (I'm watching HD directly off the C-band satellite) but I do expect that they'll carry the presser on both the public and media channels.  Their breaking news schedule says it'll be on ALL channels, so you could also pick it up (in SD) from their education channel. I'll confirm once they put up a slate.

EDIT 3:28pm EDT: they just went to slate, and it's on all three services.

And the background audio is that cheesy cinematic/operatic crap that you guys love :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:25 pm
Ok, some key quotes from me (anyone else can join in on quotes and screenshots - but no random chatter! :D), with Aaron providing a one page summary at conclusion.

Discovery still dominating the face time on NASA TV right now ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:29 pm
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/16/2012 07:31 pm
This looks like it will be interesting. Good choice in pre-presser music I must say  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rcoppola on 04/16/2012 07:32 pm
sounds like a Michael Bay film.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 07:33 pm
sounds like a Michael Bay film.

I was thinking Lord of the Rings

It's started.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/16/2012 07:33 pm
sounds like a Michael Bay film.


Thought this was a good thing anyway.


Presser now starting full panel.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:33 pm
Awesome title music from NASA TV.

Starting. Josh hosting.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 07:35 pm
April 30th looks good but there's still a lot of work to be done. Will get together again on the 23rd.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:36 pm
Mr Gerstenmaier notes this wasn't like a shuttle FRR. Was for the ISS.

Notes they have one more launch sim to do. Still some more software testing to do, but everything looks good. Still caution on ISS side to validate.

Good chance to make the 30th, but will meet again on the 23rd.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:37 pm
Pete Harding's article, with SORR notes, as Suff just referenced.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/04/frr-sets-april-30-dragons-first-flight-fully-prepared-iss/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/16/2012 07:38 pm
FYI if you're seeing glitches on the internet feed, those glitches are on the satellite feed as well.

Edit 4:34pm EDT:  the problem seems to have attenuated a bit now.  I had three different professional-grade satellite receivers on it (and two different makes and models), and all of them were causing SOME of my monitors to flicker out (lose video and audio sync).  I'd lose the signal multiple times per minute.  Now it's pretty stable although I've seen two glitches in the past 15 minutes, perhaps as they did equipment resets to recover the situation.  I'm pretty sure this was a problem at NASA's end, not with my gear, considering my heterogenous equipment.

I was losing sync on SOME equipment.  On higher end professional monitors, I would not lose sync but I'd see noise in the video.  So it looks to me like NASA had a bad element in their video chain that was causing this.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:39 pm
Suff notes there's still some non standard work relating to hardware testing in the loop for software and hardware.

Left it to SpaceX to define their mission parameters (mission success).

521 kg of cargo flying up.

660kg downmass for refurbishing (that's a big deal).

It is a demo flight, so nothing critical on the flight (cargo).

Notes busy VV schedule coming up.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:46 pm
Mr Lindenmoyer noting the background of commercial industry for ISS resupply. Some COTS slides (video will be available later for that).

Actually, he's reading off that COTS presentation linked earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: JBF on 04/16/2012 07:50 pm
Ahhh that accounts for the delay, NASA wanted more system level tests.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:50 pm
I've got an article on all of this coming! :)

.....
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/16/2012 07:50 pm
Mr Gerstenmaier notes this wasn't like a shuttle FRR. Was for the ISS.


Which means they didn't go launch vehicle and spacecraft hardware like a shuttle FRR.  It is mostly the onorbit stuff.  Launch topics would only be schedule, range, and recycle, but not nitty-gritty details.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:54 pm
"That will be a very good day":
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/16/2012 07:55 pm
Ahhh that accounts for the delay, NASA wanted more system level tests.


This seems to be the case. They did mention they want a few more sims anyway (even now) but I think this is all really positive. Seems like they will make their timeline.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 07:55 pm
Elon's personality is remarkably different.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/16/2012 07:56 pm
Elon speaking now. Mentions that both the vehicle and spacecraft are still new, mission is pretty tricky.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:57 pm
Elon time:

Notes appreciation to NASA for their help and the American public who are funding this.

I think we've got a pretty good shot, but there's a lot that can go wrong.

We've launched the rocket twice before, the spacecraft once, but they are new. Rendezvous will be a first. There's no ISS on the ground, so it's important to appreciate it's really tricky.

People may not realize ISS is zooming around the planet at 17,500mph, so it's hard. I think we've got a very good chance, but this is test flight, so we have a couple more missions to succeed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: StephenB on 04/16/2012 07:59 pm
Did I get this right? Musk: if we don't succeed on birthing on this mission, we have another couple of missions to accomplish it this year.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 07:59 pm
Notes the upcoming hot fire to come.

Some B-Roll type videos on preps and COTS overview. I'm missing Mike Moses right now! :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/16/2012 08:01 pm
Holly now discussing the effort involved (in the past several years) leading to this launch. Discussing individual interactions between all the teams in each facility.

Really puts the whole thing into perspective, just how far this effort has come.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:04 pm
Ms Ridings noting a lot of work has been going on with the integration between the ISS and this new spacecraft.

Two dynamic vehicles, very important they communicate. ISS' role is mainly the safety of the crew. SpaceX for the spacecraft.

Two crewmembers available for Dragon ops. A lot of time working with them, to ensure they understand what is expected of them.

Short mission overview.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: STS Tony on 04/16/2012 08:04 pm
Did I get this right? Musk: if we don't succeed on birthing on this mission, we have another couple of missions to accomplish it this year.

Read Chris' notes. ;) Short answer, Yes.

Mr Gerstenmaier notes this wasn't like a shuttle FRR. Was for the ISS.


Which means they didn't go launch vehicle and spacecraft hardware like a shuttle FRR.  It is mostly the onorbit stuff.  Launch topics would only be schedule, range, and recycle, but not nitty-gritty details.

So true Jim. I find it surprising seen as NASA's paying for it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/16/2012 08:05 pm
Suff notes there's still some non standard work relating to hardware testing in the loop for software and hardware.

Left it to SpaceX to define their mission parameters (mission success).

521 kg of cargo flying up.

660kg downmass for refurbishing (that's a big deal).
...
Wow, 660kg... Must be nice to get the downmass capability back, huh? That's more than I expected.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:05 pm
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/16/2012 08:05 pm
Will they integrate this final flight sim into the static fire, like they did with the WDRs? Or is that too late?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/16/2012 08:06 pm
NASA Twitter reporting it's a go for April 30.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/16/2012 08:07 pm
Will they integrate this final flight sim into the static fire, like they did with the WDRs? Or is that too late?

I'm thinking it's the latter.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:07 pm
NASA Twitter reporting it's a go for April 30.

Please read the thread. Mr Gerstenmaier's comments are more important than what they post on twitter.

#Context! :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/16/2012 08:08 pm

So true Jim. I find it surprising seen as NASA's paying for it.

NASA isn't paying for the hardware, just the service.  The FRR covers the NASA/Spacex interaction, which only occurs onorbit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:09 pm
The first flyunder is very important, as it's the first command from the ISS, per:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/04/iss-robotic-arm-preparation-greet-spacexs-dragon/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/16/2012 08:09 pm
Will they integrate this final flight sim into the static fire, like they did with the WDRs? Or is that too late?


Usually not, since the flight sim doesn't want to be subject to the real world issues and delay that might arise during the static fire.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:11 pm
Integrated operations:
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 08:12 pm
More slides
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:12 pm
Riding up the RBar:
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rcoppola on 04/16/2012 08:13 pm
I like how NASA continues to make the point that SpaceX is responsible up until ISS approach and then again for decent, recovery. It's an important distinction for the public to know. This is not a NASA vehicle. It is a privately owned and operated vehicle. (we know this, but many do not get this yet)


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lurker Steve on 04/16/2012 08:17 pm
I like how NASA continues to make the point that SpaceX is responsible up until ISS approach and then again for decent, recovery. It's an important distinction for the public to know. This is not a NASA vehicle. It is a privately owned and operated vehicle. (we know this, but many do not get this yet)




But whatever gets returned from the ISS, even if it is just dirty laundry, still belongs to NASA. It doesn't get displayed in the SpaceX lobby.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:18 pm
25 hours of cargo transfer expected ahead of unberthing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 08:18 pm
Another slide
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/16/2012 08:19 pm
But whatever gets returned from the ISS, even if it is just dirty laundry, still belongs to NASA. It doesn't get displayed in the SpaceX lobby.

Isn't that stating the obvious.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/16/2012 08:20 pm

But whatever gets returned from the ISS, even if it is just dirty laundry, still belongs to NASA. It doesn't get displayed in the SpaceX lobby.


But that doesn't mean Spacex can launch and return somethings of its own
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:22 pm
Questions.

Q) About software and follow on FRR.

Mr Gerstenmaier: Test reports to come from the software testing. Testing with the actual vehicle in Florida. NASA will look at those results too. No formal review, but on the 23rd they'll hear how the testing went. Final week includes the firing. One more SpaceX FRR style review.

Today we had enough assurance to head towards the 30th, but we're not completely there. We still reserve the right to look at the testing results.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:24 pm
Q) Could Dragon launch from Texas?

Elon: (Doesn't really want to talk about it as this is about ISS) are interested in a Texas launch site. A lot of good action taken by the local authority. Not so much at the State or Federal level. Important to look at a third launch site for cargo and potentially crew.

Also looking at one of the Shuttle pads at the Cape for crew flight. Don't want to encounter launch site constraints.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:28 pm
Q) On constraints for the launch to other vehicles.

Elon: Probably comparable, not entirely certain.

Mr Gerstenmaier: Same lightning and visibility rules. Winds aloft more restrictive for Shuttle. Pretty comparable.

Q) If everything goes successful (Elon: That would be awesome), what is the next timeline.

Elon: A steady stream of flights to the ISS would be super great. Will be gaining a lot of knowledge of how crew flight will work. Best to find that on a cargo flight. Optimistic Dragon will be carrying crew. Probably about three years, maybe 2.5 years.

Q) On International partners.

Suff: One is how the entire partnership rely on it. Lions share of upmass for USOC will be via commercial. All agencies were represented. They worry about safety issues that we need to prove like plumes etc. So we aren't causing any hard to the ISS. We show them the data to show it's safe.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:33 pm
Q) On comparison with HTV and Dragon.

Mr Gerstenmaier: We learned a lot from HTV. Did a very similar approach with HTV for the first flight. Same kind of approach of testing capability before using capability. Working with ISS partners gave us experience on how to exchange data through to getting to the berthing box - which is very similar to HTV, which paved the way.

Elon: Thankful for HTV too. Dragon is different as it returns to Earth. If you stored an oxygen bottle on Dragon you could have a crew on Dragon (as Cargo and Crew versions are very similar). Have an upgrade plan for Dragon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 08:34 pm
Two more missions to space station this year. One in the summer and the other late in the year. Basically the same info from the March 3rd FPWG.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:35 pm
Q) Marcia Dunn saying some people still question SpaceX, do you feel the pressure.

Elon: No question some people will put too much weight on this flight, because it is a test flight. We may not succeed in getting to the ISS. Hopefully there will be two more flights to the ISS, and I'm confident if this one doesn't work, the others will. Should be no doubt about our resolve. We will get to the Space Station on this flight or another.

Have to work with NASA on the next two flights, but one in the summer one at the end of the year at the moment.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/16/2012 08:38 pm
Elon looks like he just woke up. Seems a little subdued.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/16/2012 08:39 pm
She says SpaceX is reserving margin for contingencies. Elon says that CRS regular missions will probably have daily opportunities, but because of the desire for maximum propellant margin for getting to ISS, the opportunites are once every three days for this mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:39 pm
Philip's on the KSC line for us!! :)

Asking Ms Ridings about the flight profile.

About 38 hours to get on to the racetrack (FD3). FD1 is far field phasing. 22 hours for the racetrack (F4 berthing). Berthing May 3 on this scenario. 7:30am Central for capture on FD 4.

On no daily launch ops.

Some of it is mission specific. A lot more things on this demo flight, such as the unique flyunder. SpaceX also reserving some launch date margin for launch ops. ISS traj is in flux with other VVs arriving, so that results in a splattering of launch dates.

Elon: Future missions will be closer to daily opportunites, and need to have as much prop as possible.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:44 pm
Q) On launch window constraints.

Mr Riding: There's always Range conflicts, some beta angle. Soyuz and Dragon conflicts. Dragon recovery constraints. Want to land in daylight.

Q) On the amount of slips.

The rocket could have launched several times last year if it was just the rocket. Tricky part was prox operations such as LIDAR and comms systems (NASA TDRSS etc.) A lot of new electronics. Solar arrays debut and radiator system are new elements too. The schedule driver was the software schedule.

Huge test matrix, for an autonomous Dragon. No joystick, so a lot of intellegence on board.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/16/2012 08:45 pm
Elon: Launch vehicle is not the constraint for this flight. Could've launched several more rockets at this time. The other parts of Dragon that have been tested before on COTS 1 (heatshield, parachute, etc) are not the constraint either. Constraint is prox-ops. LIDAR, communications, autonomous operations, being absolutely sure software operates as designed, etc.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:46 pm
HA Wash Post had elevator music playing. So does Wired! ;D

Basic stuff on training with SSRMS and cameras etc.

Good note that there may be a capability to redo some test objectives, such as going all the way around and flying under the station again. Approach for berthing uses a lot of prop, so if they didn't go well, so Dragon would have to go off and flyaround again, based on consumables.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 08:56 pm
Suff notes about how they are verifying a system, but NASA doesn't access the design elements of the spacecraft. Thinks it's been a fascinating process because they had so many years perfecting everything from the ground up. Now they have gone to a company and given them a requirement. SpaceX engineers learned a lot from the NASA guys, and the NASA guys have learned from the way the SpaceX guys dealt tackling similar problems.

Q) On cargo breakdown.

Suff: It is crew provisions, food, some replacement consumables. One nanorack payload (student experiments). 521 kg up, 660 kg down, but the latter not finalized. Looking at non-required ORUs on the down manifest side, it's in the plan. (Pump, multi-filtration beds, and comm box for JAXA).

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 09:04 pm
Suff notes about how they are verifying a system, but NASA doesn't access the design elements of the spacecraft. Thinks it's been a fascinating process because they had so many years perfecting everything from the ground up. Now they have gone to a company and given them a requirement. SpaceX engineers learned a lot from the NASA guys, and the NASA guys have learned from the way the SpaceX guys dealt tackling similar problems.

Q) On cargo breakdown.

Suff: It is crew provisions, food, some replacement consumables. One nanorack payload (student experiments). 521 kg up, 660 kg down, but the latter not finalized. Looking at non-required ORUs on the down manifest side, it's in the plan. (Pump, multi-filtration beds, and comm box for JAXA).


I thought they said a power supply box for JAXA.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 09:05 pm
Who holds the main authority.

Ms Ridings: SpaceX prior to integrated ops. Go/No Gos is run by MCC-H. Abort is MCC-H authority. ISS problems is MCC-H's call to stop Dragon arriving.

Huge media list, but a lot no longer on the line.

Q) How much money have SpaceX spent.

Elon: Several hundred million in venture capital (some from me) and NASA money and other customers. Somewhere around a billion dollars over the life of SpaceX.

More on Money.

4-10 times if a traditional NASA dev was used.

Bill Harwood on Range and windows.

Mr Ridings: April 30, and May 3, mid to late May window after Soyuz.

On issues that have been worked.

Mission success capabilities required join operation reviews, such as aborts. Did some prelim work, but took extra time to ensure a solid plan for a higher probability.

Elon: Hardware loop testing and validation of the software - a vast amount of intellegence. Very complex system.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 09:13 pm
Q) MMT authority?

Suff: IMMT (Station MMT).

Q) On US rockets after relying on Russian rockets.

Suff: We couldn't be more pleased. Very important to have US capability. Commercializing LEO. Very important step to move to exploration to allow NASA to start focusing on BEO.

Mr Gerstenmaier notes the downmass. Likes how SpaceX worked hard issues like EMI problems, engine delamination. But what we're asking them to do on this flight is amazing. Six computers and 18 engines to get to the SSRMS is very demanding.

Q) On the hardware loop:

Elon: We have a replication of the avionics on a bench, a brain in a tub :D, which we watch during simulations (there version of SAIL?). A huge number of tests to reduce failures. The last month of so involved false aborts, where Dragon got too worried and aborted the mission. Needs to learn when it's ok and when it needs to abort.

Presser over.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 09:14 pm
NASA TV coverage!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 09:15 pm
Suff notes about how they are verifying a system, but NASA doesn't access the design elements of the spacecraft. Thinks it's been a fascinating process because they had so many years perfecting everything from the ground up. Now they have gone to a company and given them a requirement. SpaceX engineers learned a lot from the NASA guys, and the NASA guys have learned from the way the SpaceX guys dealt tackling similar problems.

Q) On cargo breakdown.

Suff: It is crew provisions, food, some replacement consumables. One nanorack payload (student experiments). 521 kg up, 660 kg down, but the latter not finalized. Looking at non-required ORUs on the down manifest side, it's in the plan. (Pump, multi-filtration beds, and comm box for JAXA).


I thought they said a power supply box for JAXA.

Probably. My brain was in a tub by that point ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: racshot65 on 04/16/2012 09:16 pm
Bill G

Did FRR today
Not a shuttle flight review, didn’t look at all aspects just the ISS part. Similar to HTV and ATV, make sure were ready to go
Teams are well prepared. SpaceX gave us an introductory review. SpaceX team have done a tremendous amount of work on hardware and software. Was very impressed, have made tremendous progress as a team.
Have 1 simulation left.
More software testing to do.
April 30th launch date, but still lots to be done Good chance we could make it. Will meet again on April 23rd
Impressed by discussion between NASA and SpaceX


Mike S

Always excited when a vehicle comes to ISS but this will be historic
Beginning of a long term effort.
Successful FRR, verified safety of vehicle in 2km ellipsoid around ISS
Spent last couple of years and months with SpaceX working through verifications and requirements. Testing that we dictated and SpaceX’s testing.
We cleaned up our verifications. They send us test reports and we confirm vehicle is ready to go.
In good shape have some non standard open work, related to hardware in the loop testing. (Bringing hardware and software together)
NASA and SpaceX have grown together and learned a lot from one another
Left it to SpaceX to define their mission parameters
SpaceX will bring up 521kg of cargo (real hardware)
Will return 660kg of cargo, some we want back to refurbish
All hardware involved with this we can afford to loose


Alan L

After we decided to end shuttle we would have like to have purchased services to resupply ISS so we thought like investors and wanted to become a consumer of services.
5 years ago we set the program objectives and learnt to think like investors and placed investments to stimulate the industry.
In Dec 2008 we awarded SAA and resupply contracts
Have monitored SpaceX’s performance through milestones and we only pay them after a milestone is achieved.
37/40 milestones completed.

Have a partnership with Orbital
They started 1.5 years later than SpaceX and are making good progress.
They plan to fly later this year with Antares out of Wallops
Have 5 milestones left

We got additional funding last year to increase the chance of success of the program.
Mostly more system level testing.

Objectives of this flight (C2)
A flyby beneath the station 2.5km away.
Will execute some manoeuvres
Same tests HTV and ATV had to pass
SpaceX asked last year if they could approach and berth on this flight.
Did some analysis and we agreed to it.
18 days of cargo transfer then they unberth and return home
We call this mission C2+


Elon M

Thanks NASA for the opportunity
SpaceX wouldn’t have been able to get started without NASA’s help
Thanks the American public for funding this
A lot can go wrong; the rocket needs to perform as well as the space craft
Proximity opps and berthing systems will be test for the first time in space
All work on the ground has been done with simulations and approximations
This is a test flight so if we don’t succeed in berthing we have more missions later this year.
We’ve tried to design a dragon that’s similar for cargo and humans
Static firing coming up, to check were OK to launch


Holly W

Have been working hard for multiple years leading up to this day
Need to make sure the two control teams can communicate
Write documentation and flight rules and make sure the teams are trained to use this information
Last simulation is a final clean run the polish before we fly, looking forward to doing it
ISS crew has been working hard to prepare for the mission
Timeframe were launching in means we have 2 crew members available to do opps.
Launch and phasing is SpaceX’s responsibility until they get close to the station
Once they get close to station, interaction with NASA team begins to ensure safety of the station
After departure SpaceX take over again.
Fly under is important as it the first time dragon and ISS talk, the first time the crew send dragon a command (turns on a light)
Also gather navigation data to make sure the system is working
Houston has final authority within 2.5km
Will pause automatically at 250m hold point
Complete some demonstration objectives.
Make go / no go decision
Will move to 30m and dragon stops automatically
Carry out another go / no go poll
Crew heavily involved
Move to 10m point (capture point)
Another go / no go poll
Give final go for capture and tell crew
Then the crew inhibit ISS thrusters and the dragon thrusters are inhibited  and capture dragon with the arm
Dragon is then berthed after checking the berthing mechanism is free of debris.
Coming up the R bar takes about 7.5 hours
Open the hatch the next morning and start cargo transfer
Dragon makes 3 burns to depart, we check its on a safe trajectory and the SpaceX team are in charge



Questions

Q:

A: Software work going on, hardware in the loop testing. Provide reports back to the NASA team and we look at it. Do testing of the vehicle in Florida. No formal reviews of these activities. FRR of the engines, propellant loading. SpaceX then do their own review. Not completely there on launching on the 30th but we got enough assurance today that’s it’s the right date to head for.


Q: Has NASA invested 381 million in SpaceX ?

A: Yes


Q: What does Texas need to do to make it an attractive place to launch?

A: Local authorities are taking a lot of good actions. 3rd launch site will help us ensure we don’t encounter a launch site constraint. Looking at a shuttle pad at Kennedy


Q: Weather constraints for the launch ?

A: Similar to shuttle, are earing on the side of caution. Lighting rules and visibility same as EELV. Less restrictive wind rules compared to shuttle.


Q: Is this is 100% successful whats the next step ?

A: Steady stream of flights to ISS. Due to similarities between cargo and crew dragon, we learn a lot to help us with human launches on these flights. In a perfect world were 3 years away from launching crews.


Q: Role of the international partners?

A: Entire partnership benefits. Commercial vehicles will provide majority of upmass for the USOS.  We have to prove to the partnerships we meet the requirements and don’t cause any harm to the ISS. We provide them with the data they need.


Q: Connection between SpaceX and HTV ?

A: Learned a lot from HTV, did a similar approach when it approached for the first time. Verify capability before we commit to using it. Hollys team got used to getting the data from a partner. Learnt how to exchange data and developed the procedures we need. Berthing between SpaceX and HTV is very similar. Camera opps and overlays are similar to HTV. HTV made things easier for SpaceX to approach due to similarities. Elon talks again about how the lessons they learn from these cargo flights will help with crew launches.


Q: Do you feel a lot of pressure to succeed due to the opponents to commercial space ?

A: Some people will put too much weight on this test flight, we may not succeed. Hope to have 2 more flights later this year. If this one doesn’t succeed confident one of those will. We will get to the ISS. If we don’t get there it shouldn’t be taken as a verdict on commercial crew transport.


Q: Timeline for next 2 flights?

A: Need to work with NASA. One in the summer, one at end of the year.


Q: What time after lift off will you be at the red arrow? (Philip!)

A: Will be at red arrow after 38 / 39 hours. (FD3)


Q: Where isn’t there a daily launch opportunity? (Philip!)

A: Mission specific demonstrations. (Fly under, some other objectives and analysis) SpaceX have also reserved some margin for contingencies. ISS trajectories with Soyuz and progress etc. Add all these up and you end up with those launch dates. After the flight and we review the data we can get back to back launch dates like shuttle. Future launches will be closer to daily opps.


Q: Any constraints if you scrub?

A: Range conflicts, beta cut outs. Constraint and rule cut outs, e.g dragon and soyuz on top of each other. Dragon has constraints for recovery, they want to land in daylight.


Q: Main reason for the slips, whats proven hard?

A: Not the rocket. Tricky part was prox opps and berthing systems. LIDAR, thermal imagers. Communication system. New elements like electronics. Solar arrays, radiators. Software testing and its interaction with the hardware. 18 engines and 6 computers means the test matrix is huge.  Dragon is autonomous, don’t have someone to make real time corrections. Have to test all of this.


Q: What preparations are being done in orbit?

A: Practice with the robotic arm. Do some grappling practice. Have a simulator they can practice with. Do some familiarisation work with cameras and computers etc. Some self study also.


Q: If a test doesn’t work can you retry?

A: Maybe, some of the early tests could be redone depending on SpaceX’s margins. If were under the station you have to go around and try again, depends on propellant. R bar tests need to be done quickly as they use a lot of propellant. If they don’t work, you can’t continue at that time, may be able to redo them the next day.


Q: Differences & Challenges on the NASA side?

A: Getting used to not being in charge of the whole flight. We’re verifying a system based on performance requirements. We don’t have access to the designs of every box etc. Biggest adjustment was learning about different ways to solve the same problem when talking with the SpaceX teams. We gained experience with this when international partners built hardware for the ISS.


Q: What cargo is on the flight ?

A: Food, replacement consumables. 1 nano rack payload. Crew provisions. Down manifest is still being tweaked. We want to return some ORU’s to refurbish and save money. A Pump, multi-filtration beds, and a box for JAXA


Q: How much money has SpaceX spent to get here?

A: Don’t know the exact number, several hundred millions of dollars in VC funding. Around a billion dollars.


Q: Chances of success?

A: Don’t want to give an exact number. Chances of F9 working are good, as well as non berthing part of Dragon.


Q: Cost for NASA to build similar capability in the traditional way?

A: 4-10X as much


Q: If SpaceX doesn’t get off in the first 2 attempts where will it slip to?

A: Windows late April, early May. After Soyuz window mid – late May.


Q: What issues have you been working the last few months?

A: From an opps perspective recovering from aborts.   Hardware loop testing and software validation.


Q: Feeling inside NASA ?

A: Couldn’t be more pleased with what were off to go do. We’re helping commercialise LEO and want NASA to focus on exploration beyond LEO. Were excited about this next step. This is critical to the station. Encouraging to see SpaceX work difficult issues with EMI and engine lamination. Tested more than they had to. What were asking SpaceX to do is amazing.


Q: Hardware in the loop issue?

A: Have a complete dragon avionics system on a bench and we watch is pretend to fly to the ISS. We simulate failures at the worst possible time. Not worried about any single test. False aborts have been an issue due to being too cautious.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/16/2012 09:16 pm
Some new videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbEsbM3uYDE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Ir4446cZ0&
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 09:17 pm
Heh, nice work Aaron!!

Rebump of Pete's excellent article with a lot of meat from L2's SpaceX Dragon C2/C3 or C2+ Special Section

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/04/frr-sets-april-30-dragons-first-flight-fully-prepared-iss/

I have a mission profile article via L2 content (and today's presser helps for human quotes) to come.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mapperuo on 04/16/2012 09:21 pm
Live coverage of grapple & berth starts at 2am, With Grapple at 8am and berthing at 12pm.. Quite a long day.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 09:27 pm
Live coverage of grapple & berth starts at 2am, With Grapple at 8am and berthing at 12pm.. Quite a long day.  ;D ;D

And worth mentioning, we'll have live launch day update thread (public side and L2 side). We'll also have a live FD3 and FD4 coverage threads.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Silmfeanor on 04/16/2012 09:34 pm
Live coverage of grapple & berth starts at 2am, With Grapple at 8am and berthing at 12pm.. Quite a long day.  ;D ;D

And worth mentioning, we'll have live launch day update thread (public side and L2 side). We'll also have a live FD3 and FD4 coverage threads.

Enough for me to finally cave in and get an L2 subscription then!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/16/2012 09:36 pm
:) Thanks, everyone.

I wonder if they have the option of aborting to the ocean if there's a problem with solar array deployment?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: John44 on 04/16/2012 09:40 pm
ISS SpaceX/Dragon Post-Flight Readiness Review Preflight Briefing
110 minutes / 780 MB  (tomorrow I upload a small version)
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7480
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Orbiter on 04/16/2012 09:42 pm
Live coverage of grapple & berth starts at 2am, With Grapple at 8am and berthing at 12pm.. Quite a long day.  ;D ;D

And worth mentioning, we'll have live launch day update thread (public side and L2 side). We'll also have a live FD3 and FD4 coverage threads.

So, you're doing this pretty much identical to a shuttle mission? That's pretty sweet!

Orbiter
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 04/16/2012 10:00 pm
Elon: We have a replication of the avionics on a bench, a brain in a tub :D, which we watch during simulations (there version of SAIL?).

Per one of the SAA Amendments, I think it's called Dragon Force:
http://science.house.gov/sites/republicans.science.house.gov/files/documents/hearings/052611_Shotwell%20Testimony.pdf

Quote
Full Dragon EMI/EMC Test, Second Flight-Like HITL (Dragon Force):
A full-scale EMI/EMC test is final verification that the vehicle’s electrical components will not interfere with either each other or external electrical components such as the ISS. This test will verify both radiated emissions and susceptibility. SpaceX will also develop another complete Hardware in the loop simulator called Dragon Force to ensure that multiple hardware and software test scenarios can run in parallel.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/16/2012 10:06 pm
Yay Silmfeanor ! The servers will eat tonight! ;D


So, you're doing this pretty much identical to a shuttle mission? That's pretty sweet!

Orbiter

As much as we can. Such as there's no notable FD2 coverage (unless SpaceX webcast something themselves), but this is all hugely important, so no stone left unturned. Won't be as "good" as Shuttle, as that really was 24/7 coverage by nature of the mission and NTV, but it'll be second only to Shuttle. And remember, that was human missions.

No Sleep Till Wheels Stop... I mean Splashdown? :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Silmfeanor on 04/16/2012 10:15 pm
Yay Silmfeanor ! The servers will eat tonight! ;D


Gotta wait for the money to get to paypall...
Other then that, I'm really looking forward to this mission. I can't WAIT till I see the dragon getting grappled by a robot arm.
And i'll be getting nervous for days before it launches, hoping everything will be allright.
My confidence of this has been puffed up by this FRR thing and NASA's preliminary Ok, though!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Zed_Noir on 04/16/2012 10:15 pm
No Sleep Till Wheels Stop... I mean Splashdown? :D

Think no rest until they hoisted the Dragon aboard the recovery ship.  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Rocket Guy on 04/16/2012 10:19 pm

  - Launch opportunities consist of a 3 day pattern, so after May 3rd would be May 6th, 2012.


Not entirely true, there are other range users, and hence Spacex does not get to repeat indefinitely.

Good point, I've forgotten that the Atlas V now is on the range for May 5th.

Orbiter

ULA & AF have confirmed that SpaceX has May 3 as their backup, then Atlas May 5 (or 6) and then SpaceX would presumably try again the 9th.

If SpaceX slips ahead of time, or if their scrub requires more than 72 hours, Atlas could potentially move up to May 3. They are currently working towards a May 3 target just in case.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: robertross on 04/16/2012 10:20 pm
Mr Gerstenmaier notes the downmass. Likes how SpaceX worked hard issues like EMI problems, engine delamination. But what we're asking them to do on this flight is amazing. Six computers and 18 engines to get to the SSRMS is very demanding.


Presser over.

Thanks for that Chris, and Aaron.

Just another case of software it seems... (for the most part)

The downmass should be a great step in the right direction to make better use of ISS utilization. On that part alone I commend SpaceX for their efforts - it is crucial.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Prober on 04/16/2012 11:43 pm
Ok, some key quotes from me (anyone else can join in on quotes and screenshots - but no random chatter! :D), with Aaron providing a one page summary at conclusion.

Discovery still dominating the face time on NASA TV right now ;D

yes, that was so sad to see just before this news.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/16/2012 11:53 pm
Is Holly Ridings the Flight Director specifically for SpaceX-D, or is she the ISS Flight Director at the time the SpaceX mission occurs?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: QuantumG on 04/16/2012 11:57 pm
Here's the archive of the FRR:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21900888

starts 37 minutes in. Finishes in this one:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21902433
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/17/2012 02:40 am
ISS SpaceX/Dragon Post-Flight Readiness Review Preflight Briefing
110 minutes / 780 MB  (tomorrow I upload a small version)
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7480

Thanks John44, looking forward to the smaller version.  And thanks QuantumG for the ustream links.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/17/2012 04:41 am

  - Launch opportunities consist of a 3 day pattern, so after May 3rd would be May 6th, 2012.


Not entirely true, there are other range users, and hence Spacex does not get to repeat indefinitely.

Good point, I've forgotten that the Atlas V now is on the range for May 5th.

Orbiter

ULA & AF have confirmed that SpaceX has May 3 as their backup, then Atlas May 5 (or 6) and then SpaceX would presumably try again the 9th.

If SpaceX slips ahead of time, or if their scrub requires more than 72 hours, Atlas could potentially move up to May 3. They are currently working towards a May 3 target just in case.

I thought all launch attempts after May 3 are out until the new ISS crew launches on May 15?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/17/2012 04:45 am

  - Launch opportunities consist of a 3 day pattern, so after May 3rd would be May 6th, 2012.


Not entirely true, there are other range users, and hence Spacex does not get to repeat indefinitely.

Good point, I've forgotten that the Atlas V now is on the range for May 5th.

Orbiter

ULA & AF have confirmed that SpaceX has May 3 as their backup, then Atlas May 5 (or 6) and then SpaceX would presumably try again the 9th.

If SpaceX slips ahead of time, or if their scrub requires more than 72 hours, Atlas could potentially move up to May 3. They are currently working towards a May 3 target just in case.

I thought all launch attempts after May 3 are out until the new ISS crew launches on May 15?
Nope! Current plan is to have 3 crew members on ISS when Dragon launches.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: happyflower on 04/17/2012 06:05 am
ISS SpaceX/Dragon Post-Flight Readiness Review Preflight Briefing
110 minutes / 780 MB  (tomorrow I upload a small version)
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7480

Thank you.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/17/2012 10:34 am
NASA asked us to rename the threads C2+ (as opposed to C2/C3 or D2/D3) so will rename all associated threads today.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: robertross on 04/17/2012 11:15 am
NASA asked us to rename the threads C2+ (as opposed to C2/C3 or D2/D3) so will rename all associated threads today.


wow, don't see that too often.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/17/2012 01:20 pm
NASA asked us to rename the threads C2+ (as opposed to C2/C3 or D2/D3) so will rename all associated threads today.

I think this "C2+" business is some clever way to make the mission sound successful even if only the C2 objectives are met (as was the original plan), since the "+" implies that any objectives beyond C2 are merely a bonus.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rsnellenberger on 04/17/2012 02:07 pm
NASA asked us to rename the threads C2+ (as opposed to C2/C3 or D2/D3) so will rename all associated threads today.


I think this "C2+" business is some clever way to make the mission sound successful even if only the C2 objectives are met (as was the original plan), since the "+" implies that any objectives beyond C2 are merely a bonus.
It sounds more like someone finally noticed that the goalposts were moving...

I take this as an acknowledgement that this mission WILL BE successful if only the C2 objectives are met. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: JBF on 04/17/2012 02:34 pm
I take this as an acknowledgement that this mission WILL BE successful if only the C2 objectives are met. 

That makes sense, it was one of the things Elon Musk was emphasizing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: david1971 on 04/17/2012 02:50 pm
I take this as an acknowledgement that this mission WILL BE successful if only the C2 objectives are met. 

That makes sense, it was one of the things Elon Musk was emphasizing.

Yeah, watching the video I got the impression that they told Elon "We are unsure if you are ready for the C3 stuff, but it is in everyone's best interests to get the rocket off the pad."

Anybody else get that vibe?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/17/2012 02:56 pm
If NASA says that they are ready to carry out the mission plus the COTS 3 objectives, they are. Whether SpaceX succeeds in those requirements is another matter. Here's hoping for a  excellent flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/17/2012 03:34 pm
I take this as an acknowledgement that this mission WILL BE successful if only the C2 objectives are met. 

That makes sense, it was one of the things Elon Musk was emphasizing.

Yeah, watching the video I got the impression that they told Elon "We are unsure if you are ready for the C3 stuff, but it is in everyone's best interests to get the rocket off the pad."

Anybody else get that vibe?
I get the vibe that Elon already knows what's at stake and how things can easily go wrong and how quickly his enemies (and enemies of commercial crew) will jump on anything less than full success of both COTS 2 and 3.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/17/2012 03:39 pm
I think it makes perfect sense actually. Anyway, back to pre-launch updates, was just explaining the change :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/17/2012 03:39 pm
Next up is Spacex's own readiness review on Sunday the 22nd along with a final NASA review on the 23rd. One step at a time......
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 04/17/2012 03:41 pm
If NASA says that they are ready to carry out the mission plus the COTS 3 objectives, they are.

NASA hasn't said that *yet*, and won't say it until the GO/NO-GO poll after the successful completion of C2. What NASA says *now* is that SpaceX will be given a GO for C3 pending completion of C2.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: northanger on 04/17/2012 04:19 pm
noticed yesterday, in the COTS Status Report for Feb 23:

Demo C2+ Key Mission Objectives
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/627984main_4-Status%20of%20COTS_508.pdf


Godspeed Falcon & Dragon!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Maciej Olesinski on 04/17/2012 04:22 pm
They have to do a lot of new stuff for the first time.
I won't be disappointed if they fail. If they success that will mean a lot.
Hopefully this will cut some 'they can't do it' attitude.
But to be honest I need to agree with Ben:
"DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!"

ISS SpaceX/Dragon Post-Flight Readiness Review Preflight Briefing
110 minutes / 780 MB  (tomorrow I upload a small version)
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7480
Many thanks!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: northanger on 04/17/2012 04:23 pm
forgot to mention:
it's the same illustration here
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28586.msg884934#msg884934
that says: Demonstration Mission Key Objectives
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: AnalogMan on 04/17/2012 04:31 pm
forgot to mention:
it's the same illustration here
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28586.msg884934#msg884934 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28586.msg884934#msg884934)
that says: Demonstration Mission Key Objectives

By the way, in case anyone missed it, the full set of slides presented during yesterday's post NASA FRR briefing can be found here:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/graphics_041612.html

And the videos are here:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=80591
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: northanger on 04/17/2012 04:35 pm
big thanks:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/graphics_041612.html
looking all over for those comparing them with the status report and what's new/different.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/17/2012 04:49 pm
NASA asked us to rename the threads C2+ (as opposed to C2/C3 or D2/D3) so will rename all associated threads today.
So what's the new official "long name"?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: LegendCJS on 04/17/2012 05:23 pm
I had a question, not sure if this is the correct place to ask it.  Why is this launch window "instantaneous"? 

If even a few seconds of time delay would render the mission unable to even reach the ISS it seems like it the one instant of time where reaching the ISS is possible must by definition be so close to the edge of the mission's performance envelope that it would be a bad idea to launch in the first place.

Or is this just a matter of picking the best launch instant to maximize the RCS fuel available for in orbit maneuver testing?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: JBF on 04/17/2012 05:26 pm
I had a question, not sure if this is the correct place to ask it.  Why is this launch window "instantaneous"? 

If even a few seconds of time delay would render the mission unable to even reach the ISS it seems like it the one instant of time where reaching the ISS is possible must by definition be so close to the edge of the mission's performance envelope that it would be a bad idea to launch in the first place.

Or is this just a matter of picking the best launch instant to maximize the RCS fuel available for in orbit maneuver testing?

According to the FFR, you are correct, they want to maximize the fuel available.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/17/2012 05:30 pm
They have to do a bunch of abort tests for this mission. If any glitches happen, they'll have to do even more. More propellant thus pretty directly translates into greater possibility of mission success, in this case. Same thing in case the upper stage under-performs (or perhaps even an engine-out on the first stage?).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/17/2012 05:40 pm
noticed yesterday, in the COTS Status Report for Feb 23:

Demo C2+ Key Mission Objectives
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/627984main_4-Status%20of%20COTS_508.pdf


Godspeed Falcon & Dragon!

So is that the "brain-in-a-tub" at the bottom of page 5?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: northanger on 04/17/2012 05:47 pm
So is that the "brain-in-a-tub" at the bottom of page 5?

have no idea...  :P
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28586.msg885026#msg885026
but now i'm curiouser! brb
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/17/2012 05:59 pm
I would say yes.  That looks like a system/avionics integration laboratory
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Comga on 04/17/2012 06:00 pm
forgot to mention:
it's the same illustration here
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28586.msg884934#msg884934 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28586.msg884934#msg884934)
that says: Demonstration Mission Key Objectives

By the way, in case anyone missed it, the full set of slides presented during yesterday's post NASA FRR briefing can be found here:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/graphics_041612.html

And the videos are here:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=80591

That last slide (Dragon departure) reminds me how little orbital mechanics I remember.  Those arcs don't look balistic to me, even for the odd world of small pertubations to orbits.  (Clohessy-Wiltshire and all that) 

What fraction of an orbit is each arc supposed to take? 
Is there continuous or intermittant thrusting involved?

Is that a pulse thrusting the capsule in the -Vbar direction, with it drifiting back and then down, followed by pulses in the +Vbar and -Rbar direction after the capsule falls "behind" the ISS, followed by a pulse in the +Rbar when the capsule reaches the RBar again, completing the first arc in half an orbit?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: peter-b on 04/17/2012 06:21 pm
Stuff
Interesting question, but do you think it might be more appropriately placed in the discussion thread (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28486)?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/17/2012 07:06 pm
I had a question, not sure if this is the correct place to ask it.  Why is this launch window "instantaneous"? 

If even a few seconds of time delay would render the mission unable to even reach the ISS it seems like it the one instant of time where reaching the ISS is possible must by definition be so close to the edge of the mission's performance envelope that it would be a bad idea to launch in the first place.

Or is this just a matter of picking the best launch instant to maximize the RCS fuel available for in orbit maneuver testing?

According to the FFR, you are correct, they want to maximize the fuel available.

That was a question that was asked by Philipp (psloss) from this website (NSF). It was nice to get an official answer on that question especially given the fact that some posters had (wrongly) speculated that it was related to under performance of the Falcon 9.   
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/17/2012 07:09 pm
It was nice to get an official answer on that question especially given the fact that some posters had (wrongly) speculated that it was related to under performance of the Falcon 9.   

You have no way of concluding from the official answer that it wasn't related to F9 performance. What if they need to drop off Dragon in a lower orbit than desired, causing the spacecraft in turn to expend more propellant on unnecessary orbit raising maneuvers? It's not a black and white situation.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/17/2012 07:15 pm
It was nice to get an official answer on that question especially given the fact that some posters had (wrongly) speculated that it was related to under performance of the Falcon 9.   

You have no way of concluding from the official answer that it wasn't related to F9 performance. What if they need to drop off Dragon in a lower orbit than desired, causing the spacecraft in turn to expend more propellant on unnecessary orbit raising maneuvers? It's not a black and white situation.

I wasn't the one doing the speculation. But it does provide an official answer as to why an instantaneous window was required for this flight (other than speculation on the F9 performance).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/17/2012 07:17 pm

That was a question that was asked by Philipp (psloss) from this website (NSF). It was nice to get an official answer on that question especially given the fact that some posters had (wrongly) speculated that it was related to under performance of the Falcon 9.   

It isn't wrong.  Dragon isn't carrying a full load of cargo.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/17/2012 07:20 pm

That was a question that was asked by Philipp (psloss) from this website (NSF). It was nice to get an official answer on that question especially given the fact that some posters had (wrongly) speculated that it was related to under performance of the Falcon 9.   

It isn't wrong.  Dragon isn't carrying a full load of cargo.

Probably to maximize propellant. Right? Is SpaceX being paid extra for delivering the cargo? This is not part of the CRS contract. It's a test flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/17/2012 07:24 pm
Probably to maximize propellant. Right?

Come on. The propellant tanks can only hold so much propellant and are by default full. They haven't offloaded cargo just so they can cram more prop into an already finite volume of tanks.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/17/2012 07:25 pm
Probably to maximize propellant. Right?

Come on. The propellant tanks can only hold so much propellant and are by default full. They haven't offloaded cargo just so they can cram more prop into an already finite volume of tanks.

You need more propellant for more cargo weight. Right? So less cargo equals more margin in case of unexepected problems.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: e of pi on 04/17/2012 08:02 pm
Probably to maximize propellant. Right?

Come on. The propellant tanks can only hold so much propellant and are by default full. They haven't offloaded cargo just so they can cram more prop into an already finite volume of tanks.
Pehaps the better question for what yg1968 appears to be asking is if there is some possibility that they are short-loading the cargo to get more delta-v (and thus more margin for the various orbital demo manuevers) out of the same fixed quantity of fuel. If you can't increase the mass ratio by increasing fuel, do it by cutting dry mass. Since cargo delivered is not critical on this flight, but sufficient margin for the various demo manuevers is, it makes sense to me that they might be doing that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: baldusi on 04/17/2012 08:14 pm
The official answer was that on standard case, the opportunities will be daily instead of three days. I think that's more significant. No matter what the LV performance using instantaneous windows only mean that they are maximizing the cargo. If they get daily opportunities, it doesn't seems like a bad trade off.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: renclod on 04/17/2012 08:46 pm
noticed yesterday, in the COTS Status Report for Feb 23:

Demo C2+ Key Mission Objectives
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/627984main_4-Status%20of%20COTS_508.pdf


Godspeed Falcon & Dragon!

So is that the "brain-in-a-tub" at the bottom of page 5?

Yes, the photo insert is tagged, HITL. 

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: northanger on 04/17/2012 09:14 pm
I would say yes.  That looks like a system/avionics integration laboratory

Yes, the photo insert is tagged, HITL. 

Thanks!

Btw, this is, imo, a very strong statement of SpaceX's preflight preparation by Gerstenmaier @ {1:35:51}, responding to "how would you characterize the mood inside the space program leading up to the launch?" (Suffredini answered the "mood" question):


Quote
I think I'd add, just a little bit. This is absolutely critical to the space station. We really need this cargo capability to be able to get to Station and the return capability the Dragon provides is truly unique of any one of the cargo providers, including the Russians and Soyuz. The amount of cargo we can get back with Dragon is just phenomenal from a return standpoint. So, we absolutely need this capability for ISS and we're really rooting for the teams to come through. I think it's also been encouraging to see SpaceX to work hard issues.

You know they had some EMI -- electromagnetic interference -- issues that they worked, and they spent some really good engineering time to resolve those issues and get them resolved. They had some engine delamination concerns and again they were very rigorous. They tested some things that maybe you didn't absolutely have to go test but they wanted to go test them to make sure they were right. That's really encouraging. So I can really get behind somebody's that's doing that extra work to get ready to go fly.

But as Elon said, this is really a tough flight. What we're asking them to go do on this demonstration flight is amazing. When you look at all those things that Holly talked about on her charts, and the many hours that all this hardware has to work, and all the software has to interact, and the six computers, and the eighteen thrusters -- and all of this has to work as a nice combined set to get into this precise box to be picked up by the SS arm. That is no easy task.

So this will be a very demanding mission, and we need to look at it as a test flight -- it's what it should be. We'll see how well that the test works out. But they've really done a great job getting ready for this test. As a NASA team we're ready to watch, participate and help. We truly need this capability for ISS.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rsnellenberger on 04/18/2012 03:29 am
If NASA says that they are ready to carry out the mission plus the COTS 3 objectives, they are.

NASA hasn't said that *yet*, and won't say it until the GO/NO-GO poll after the successful completion of C2. What NASA says *now* is that SpaceX will be given a GO for C3 pending completion of C2.

I haven't seen any mention of whether they will proceed with any of the C3 tasks if the full objectives can't be met for some reason (consistent with ISS safety, of course). 

For example, does ISS MOD still plan to perform the C3 tasks through the attitude hold at 30m if the Dragon PGDF doesn't deploy for some reason?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 04/18/2012 05:32 am
If NASA says that they are ready to carry out the mission plus the COTS 3 objectives, they are.

NASA hasn't said that *yet*, and won't say it until the GO/NO-GO poll after the successful completion of C2. What NASA says *now* is that SpaceX will be given a GO for C3 pending completion of C2.

I haven't seen any mention of whether they will proceed with any of the C3 tasks if the full objectives can't be met for some reason (consistent with ISS safety, of course). 

For example, does ISS MOD still plan to perform the C3 tasks through the attitude hold at 30m if the Dragon PGDF doesn't deploy for some reason?

I would guess not. The Dragon LIDARs are behind the PGDF door so if the PGDF cannot be confirmed deployed, there is no guarantee the LIDARs will lock on and therefore NO-GO within 250 m.

(and it's an FRGF, not a PGDF).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rsnellenberger on 04/18/2012 05:57 am
Thanks, Jorge!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/18/2012 04:50 pm
New NASA article

'California-based Space Exploration Technologies, known as SpaceX, is preparing to launch an ambitious mission to dock its Dragon spacecraft to the space station and return it to Earth. The spacecraft will not have a crew, but will carry about 1,200 pounds of cargo that the astronauts and cosmonauts living on the station will be able to use. The capsule will go into space atop a Falcon 9 rocket also built by SpaceX".

 http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/spacex_launchpreview.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/19/2012 01:55 am
From ISS On-Orbit Status Report for 18/04/2012.

In Node 3, Don installed the CCR (Cupola Crew Restraint) at the Cup RWS (Robotic Workstation) in preparation for the subsequent SSRMS OBT (Space Station Remote Manipulator System Onboard Training) session (later removing it again), and also set up the SSRMS DOUG (Dynamic Onboard Ubiquitous Graphics) application. [DOUG is a special application running on the MSS (Mobile Service System) RWS (Robotics Workstation) laptops that provides a graphical birdseye-view image of the external station configuration and the SSRMS arm, showing its real-time location and configuration on a laptop during its operation. CCR serves to stabilize an SSRMS operator at the worksite in micro-g, acting similar to a “seat belt”.]

Kuipers & Pettit then spent ~2hrs on the first (of three) Space-X Demo Offset Grapple OBT (Onboard Training) sessions, practicing SSRMS misaligned grapple approaches in preparation for the Dragon capture. [Objectives of the OBT are: Familiarization with robotic operations from the Cupola RWS, practice good hand controller techniques and successful grapple approaches, and execute a Hot Backup transition and CCP (Crew Command Panel) relocation to the Lab RWS. There are a total of three SSRMS Offset Grapples sessions in the OBT plan for Dragon capture. For the sessions, the robotarm is pre-positioned at the PMM FRGF (Permanent Multipurpose Module Flight Releasable Grapple Fixture) High Hover Position, and the crew is free to complete misaligned grapple approaches to the PMM FRGF in order to familiarize themselves with operations from the Cupola RWS (volumetric constraints, stabilization, camera lighting, CCP lighting, etc.). During the final session, Don & André have the opportunity to practice a full Hot Backup transition, including the CCP relocation to the Lab RWS in the 3rd session.]
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: JBF on 04/19/2012 03:14 am
New NASA article

'California-based Space Exploration Technologies, known as SpaceX, is preparing to launch an ambitious mission to dock its Dragon spacecraft to the space station and return it to Earth. The spacecraft will not have a crew, but will carry about 1,200 pounds of cargo that the astronauts and cosmonauts living on the station will be able to use. The capsule will go into space atop a Falcon 9 rocket also built by SpaceX".

 http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/spacex_launchpreview.html

Here is another interesting quote from that release.

"Every big project is going to have various technical challenges," Horkachuck said. "One of the refreshing things has been, once you convince SpaceX they need to make a change and it's the right thing to do from a technical perspective, they just go off and do it. There's not a lot of wrangling."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 04/19/2012 03:44 am
Word to the wise: not taking NASA government any managers at face value in public statements generally results in a more accurate view of the future.  "In God we Trust.  All others bring data."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dcporter on 04/19/2012 04:05 am
Word to the wise: not taking NASA government any managers at face value in public statements generally results in a more accurate view of the future.  "In God we Trust.  All others bring data."

True, but, if you assume an environment in which only positive-sounding things are sayable, you can learn a lot by paying attention to *which* positive-sounding things get said. See for example: Job recommendations, DVD making-of featurettes. SpaceX is getting paid a narrow, specific complement here.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/19/2012 04:49 pm
Word to the wise: not taking NASA government any managers at face value in public statements generally results in a more accurate view of the future.  "In God we Trust.  All others bring data."

True, but, if you assume an environment in which only positive-sounding things are sayable, you can learn a lot by paying attention to *which* positive-sounding things get said. See for example: Job recommendations, DVD making-of featurettes. SpaceX is getting paid a narrow, specific complement here.

Yes, and no one forced Horkachuck to utter the phrases " very good experience...much more cooperative than typical government contract...good relationship with partner...outstanding way of doing business..."

I've worked at least one major NASA program on the contractor side where the relationship was quite tense, and the NASA PM wouldn't have uttered those words if a gun had been put to his head.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 04/19/2012 06:14 pm
New NASA article

'California-based Space Exploration Technologies, known as SpaceX, is preparing to launch an ambitious mission to dock its Dragon spacecraft to the space station and return it to Earth. The spacecraft will not have a crew, but will carry about 1,200 pounds of cargo that the astronauts and cosmonauts living on the station will be able to use. The capsule will go into space atop a Falcon 9 rocket also built by SpaceX".

 http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/spacex_launchpreview.html

Here is another interesting quote from that release.

"Every big project is going to have various technical challenges," Horkachuck said. "One of the refreshing things has been, once you convince SpaceX they need to make a change and it's the right thing to do from a technical perspective, they just go off and do it. There's not a lot of wrangling."

So very true. No contract mods required and the inherint delays associated with it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/19/2012 06:18 pm

So very true. No contract mods required and the inherint delays associated with it.

not unique to spacex
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 04/19/2012 06:25 pm

So very true. No contract mods required and the inherint delays associated with it.

not unique to spacex

Yes, any service oriented contract where the contractor owned the hardware design and is responsible for it has similar contractual situation. The EELV contracts come to mind, since ULA is responsible for the design and has co-ownership of designs with the parent companies. But I could be mistaken as to how much liberty ULA has to make design changes without Air Force approval.

added - OOPS! Any further discusion of this should move the the General Discussion and not be in this thread.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 04/19/2012 06:37 pm
Updates in the update thread please.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/19/2012 09:29 pm
Here's a great update from astronaut Don Pettit on the ISS. A brief explanation of berthing activities from a crew perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9mxHskEK_Os#!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/19/2012 09:37 pm
I love how eager he is to get some "goodies" like fresh fruit. :)

Might have to make do with cheese. ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/19/2012 09:45 pm
I love how eager he is to get some "goodies" like fresh fruit. :)

Might have to make do with cheese. ;)

Fresh fruit and cheese go well together...and maybe a surreptitious bottle of naturally carbonated and aged grape juice to celebrate?

(OK, sorry, back to updates only...)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 04/19/2012 09:49 pm
I think he may have been dropping a not so subtle hint. ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: A_M_Swallow on 04/20/2012 12:26 am
They could always put a bottle of orange juice in.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: StephenB on 04/20/2012 05:27 am
Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice. Hm.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/20/2012 05:31 am
Cheese has been sent into space before. But the same cheese has never been sent into space twice. Hm.
:D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/20/2012 08:38 pm
"Working with the real robotic arm again today. Practicing to grapple and dock the Dragon spacecraft."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/astro_andre/7089725005/

PS: Is that CUCU at the bottom of the frame?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: billh on 04/20/2012 08:48 pm
"Working with the real robotic arm again today. Practicing to grapple and dock the Dragon spacecraft."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/astro_andre/7089725005/

PS: Is that CUCU at the bottom of the frame?

Looks like part of the controls for the arm. (You can read the text in the larger resolution image.)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/20/2012 08:52 pm
PS: Is that CUCU at the bottom of the frame?

Nope, that's part of the RWS. The CUCU is located in an ExPrESS rack in the Lab.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/20/2012 08:54 pm
PS: Is that CUCU at the bottom of the frame?

Nope, that's part of the RWS. The CUCU is located in an ExPrESS rack in the Lab.

Does it have to stay there? What will they do, relay verbal commands?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/20/2012 09:01 pm
PS: Is that CUCU at the bottom of the frame?

Nope, that's part of the RWS. The CUCU is located in an ExPrESS rack in the Lab.

Does it have to stay there? What will they do, relay verbal commands?

In the Cupola, there will be a Crew Command Panel (CCP) which is the device the crew actually use to send commands to the Dragon. The CCP is connected to the CUCU via intra-module jumpers, and the CUCU is in turn connected to one of the ISS' UHF antennas. But the crew don't directly interact with the CUCU during the capture (think of the CUCU as a relay box between Dragon and ISS signals).

So, it goes CCP > CUCU > UHF antenna > Dragon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/20/2012 09:17 pm
Dragon capture training (so wish they would publicly release that simulation). :)

Hi-res available here: http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e235592.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/20/2012 09:25 pm
In the Cupola, there will be a Crew Command Panel (CCP) which is the device the crew actually use to send commands to the Dragon. The CCP is connected to the CUCU via intra-module jumpers, and the CUCU is in turn connected to one of the ISS' UHF antennas. But the crew don't directly interact with the CUCU during the capture (think of the CUCU as a relay box between Dragon and ISS signals).

So, it goes CCP > CUCU > UHF antenna > Dragon.

Thanks for the explanation.

I found this picture, so the CUCU (on the left) stays in the Lab rack, the controller (right) is hand-held in the Cupola. I was confusing CUCU with the controller.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/20/2012 09:27 pm
About to start a SpaceX article shortly. Will be about the manifest details and I think we've got the mission patch before anyone else via L2 via one of the presentations we got this week (not sure, I don't "do" patches :D), but I'll add it to the article.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/20/2012 09:52 pm
I found this picture, so the CUCU (on the left) stays in the Lab rack, the controller (right) is hand-held in the Cupola. I was confusing CUCU with the controller.

Yup, you've got it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dragon44 on 04/20/2012 10:05 pm
New pictures of Dragon cargo loading from NASA.

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225 (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/20/2012 10:11 pm
New pictures of Dragon cargo loading from NASA.

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225 (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225)

That makes me nostalgic from my Spacehab days
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lee Jay on 04/20/2012 10:14 pm
SpaceX isn't obeying the labels.  :D :D :D

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/medium/2012-2518-m.jpg (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/medium/2012-2518-m.jpg)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/20/2012 10:21 pm
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=59151&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=2012-2518&sn=KSC-2012-2518

What's a "Dragon IMV Door"?
On the port side is that a 'blocked' window?
Also what's the clear glass bubble just below the port sign?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/20/2012 10:59 pm
Some new docs added to the NASA page

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/641019main_pk_overview.pdf

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/641018main_pk_objectives.pdf

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/640968main_spacex_manifest_042012.pdf
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: iamlucky13 on 04/20/2012 11:32 pm
Some new docs added to the NASA page

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/641019main_pk_overview.pdf

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/641018main_pk_objectives.pdf

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/640968main_spacex_manifest_042012.pdf

Excellent. The manifest!

Going up:
- 117 standard meals. 45 low sodium meals
- Crew clothing
- "Pantry items"
- Module 9 nano-racks with student experiments
- Spare cargo bags
- Laptop, batteries, related supplies
- "Official flight kit" (Is this just the cargo manifest, or might it contain wensleydale?)

Going down:
- "Crew preference items"
- Hardware from several past experiments
- Some ISS hardware bits
- Some EVA-gear sized for previous crew members
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lee Jay on 04/20/2012 11:45 pm
No cheese?  Some will be outraged.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/21/2012 12:28 am
Article on the cargo manifest, the importance of the downmass element and includes the mission patch that's on one L2 document, but we don't know if it's the official one.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/04/cargo-up-down-spacexs-dragon-demonstrate-importance-downmass/

Will give the article a standalone thread.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: epistefiend on 04/21/2012 06:57 am
SpaceX isn't obeying the labels.  :D :D :D

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/medium/2012-2518-m.jpg (http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images/medium/2012-2518-m.jpg)

There are two sets of handles on those bags. One is rating rated for lifting them under full gravity while the others and dainty and only for maneuvering in microgravity. The note is advising that the bags not be lifted by the dainty handles.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dcporter on 04/21/2012 12:01 pm
Out of curipsity, if you've got strong handles, why add weak ones?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/21/2012 12:11 pm
Out of curipsity, if you've got strong handles, why add weak ones?

There are no 1g handles only zerog
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/21/2012 12:14 pm
IMV is inter module ventilation.  That is where a duct from the ISS will connect.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mrflora on 04/21/2012 12:25 pm
Maybe the strong handles are removed before launch to save weight?

Regards,
M.R.F.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/21/2012 03:26 pm
Just a reminder that Sunday (tomorrow) is Spacex's final review followed by NASA's final review/ overview on Monday. We'll know more on Monday.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/21/2012 03:38 pm
Maybe the strong handles are removed before launch to save weight?


No, they don't have removal handles.  There are slings and other containers used to handle the bags.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: epistefiend on 04/21/2012 04:21 pm
Out of curipsity, if you've got strong handles, why add weak ones?

There are no 1g handles only zerog
I was going off a conversation with an acquaintance involved in cargo processing. They indicated that there were two sets. Then again, this was like 6 months ago.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/21/2012 05:02 pm
IMV is inter module ventilation.  That is where a duct from the ISS will connect.

Thanks for the answers here and on L2
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dcporter on 04/22/2012 05:21 am
The bags come with weak zerog handles otherwise nothing. They are loaded in using external devices... as though they're being loaded without handles at all. Which, in 1g, they pretty much are.

Got it thanks!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: epistefiend on 04/22/2012 07:37 pm
Out of curipsity, if you've got strong handles, why add weak ones?

There are no 1g handles only zerog
I was going off a conversation with an acquaintance involved in cargo processing. They indicated that there were two sets. Then again, this was like 6 months ago.

So what would you say is going on in this picture?
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=59148&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=2012-2515&sn=KSC-2012-2515 (http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=59148&mr=l&w=0&h=0&fn=2012-2515&sn=KSC-2012-2515)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dragon44 on 04/22/2012 08:24 pm
The guys with the gauge?  The guy with the camera?  Or the guy manipulating the hanging bag to put in dragon?

I think he is pointing out that they are using the bag handles to lift that bag. Jim said there were only zero-g handles on the bags. It looks like the handles on the end of this bag aren't labelled zero-g only.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/22/2012 11:58 pm
Per L2: Static Fire has been pushed back a day. No impact to the launch date at this time.

Reason is related to recent weather (impacting on the flow).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/23/2012 01:46 am
Chris, since they are pushing back the static fire a day that would indicate that they have approved the launch today since today was the SpaceX go/no go. Correct? Or have you heard the outcome of todays meeting?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jason1701 on 04/23/2012 02:07 am
What day is the fire?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/23/2012 02:19 am
The 26th?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 02:53 am
Chris, since they are pushing back the static fire a day that would indicate that they have approved the launch today since today was the SpaceX go/no go. Correct? Or have you heard the outcome of todays meeting?

No. Per L2 the Falcon 9 (re-)FRR* started late in the day Sunday and the Dragon (re-)FRR* is tomorrow. NASA will get to know after the latter if they are good for April 30 or need to slip. It's a bit more complicated as to how it's done as we're so used to Shuttle.

*The (re-) is my wording, regarding the inclusion of the outstanding work they had per the NASA presser we all saw (software etc.)

And yes, 25th was the static fire. Now 26th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 04/23/2012 03:06 am
In case nobody else has been keeping an eye on the weather at Cape Canaveral, they're predicted to have a "mostly sunny" day on the 30th with a rather slight chance of rain & amazingly, they have a "Fire Weather Watch" in effect right now.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/23/2012 03:16 am
Thanks Chris. It looks like late tomorrow or Tuesday morning we should get the news update on the launch. I have my fingers crossed for a go.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: clarkeo on 04/23/2012 06:27 am
@elonmusk "Just completed the rocket rollout review at SpaceX HQ in California. Almost time to launch. Pucker factor increasing..."

...... I presume this means the review was a GO.....just for falcon9 though
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 04/23/2012 09:53 am
So many links, hard to see if this has been posted yet:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/639903main_Apr_2012_60_Day_Report-508.pdf

Quote
With the upcoming SpaceX commercial cargo launch currently scheduled for April 30, it is important to understand the roles and responsibilities of the government and commercial partners with respect to mishaps that may occur during the test flights of these complex new capabilities under the commercial cargo Space Act Agreements (SAA).
For most missions undertaken by NASA, such as the Space Shuttle missions or NASA expendable launches, any launch or mission mishaps are investigated by NASA. However, SpaceX’s demonstration flight is a commercial launch from the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station and the launch and entry will be licensed and regulated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). As such, SpaceX is ultimately responsible for public safety, with the FAA and Air Force Eastern Range responsible for ensuring SpaceX compliance with public safety requirements. Depending on the nature of the incident, various organizations are responsible for conducting mishap investigations as shown in the examples listed below.

• If a mishap happens on the launch pad, SpaceX and possibly the Air Force would investigate.
• If a mishap happens during ascent or entry, the FAA will investigate with assistance from SpaceX. The National Transportation Safety Board may take the lead role in the investigation, depending on the nature of the mishap.
• If a mishap happens on orbit, SpaceX will investigate.
• If a mishap happens during International Space Station (ISS) Integrated Operations, the ISS Program will investigate.
NASA reserves discretionary authority to investigate mishaps that involve NASA personnel or resources regardless of location. However, other than mishaps involving NASA personnel or resources or during ISS operations, NASA is not responsible for conducting mishap investigations for the demonstration mission.

If the demonstration mission is successful, then SpaceX and NASA will have achieved a significant milestone; but, care and attention will have to be paid to every single subsequent flight, just as it is for all space missions. Conversely, if there is a failure or significant anomaly during the demonstration mission, then SpaceX and NASA will need to understand the cause of the failure, develop and implement corrective actions, and continue to make progress towards the next mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 01:09 pm
Per L2 The Static Fire has to slip an additional day as the range isn't free for the 26th. So now the 27th.

I'll aim to write up an article later today for the status round up.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/23/2012 02:17 pm
Per L2 The Static Fire has to slip an additional day as the range isn't free for the 26th. So now the 27th.

As this issue could come up, what is the absolute minimum time that the team at SLC-40 will need to turn the pad around between the static fire and launch?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/23/2012 02:20 pm
I don't think it's a matter of "turning the pad", more like enough time for data analysis of the static fire.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 02:26 pm
Yeah, and there's no note of any impact on the April 30 date at this time. Key to the launch date is the status review later today.

I'll write up some more mission profile stuff, summarize the static fire date moves and wait to see if we get word from NASA on a go for April 30 (which is more likely than not).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/23/2012 06:08 pm
Just a little fun updates until we get the word today from NASA....

Senator Jay Rockefeller...... via Twitter post
One week from today, 1st privately-owned spaceship @SpaceX Dragon to berth w/ Int. Space Station will launch on historic 21-day mission....Seems like a few politico's are getting with the program.

Elon Musk visiting Mission Control/Houston. I hope they are smiling just as big on April 30th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 04/23/2012 06:52 pm
What was the issue about engine delamination?  I'd think that would be one of the main things to check (and not just looking at data, but laying eyes on metal) if SpaceX turns the engines on and off.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/23/2012 07:59 pm
What was the issue about engine delamination?  I'd think that would be one of the main things to check (and not just looking at data, but laying eyes on metal) if SpaceX turns the engines on and off.

I've not seen any further explanation. The Feb 3 SFN article said that "precautionary inspections" would be done on the engines, and I seem to recall a later article in which Lindenmoyer (?) said that both the delamination issue and the Dragon prop tank thermal issue had been put to bed...but now I can't find that article.

In any case, the most informed speculation as to what the problem might be came from jongoff a while back in the Reusable Falcon 9 thread.

Update: It was Suffredini, in an ISS briefing on 3/21, who said "we've inspected the engines, so I don't know of any issues there..." Not clear that he was addressing the delamination issue, but that would make sense.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 04/23/2012 08:10 pm
Elon Musk visiting Mission Control/Houston.
Courtesy NASA JSC PAO:
http://mobile.twitter.com/nasa_johnson/status/192421507710976001

Picture reference:
http://twitpic.com/9b2tlk
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: krytek on 04/23/2012 08:13 pm
@elonmusk
"Just completed the rocket rollout review at SpaceX HQ in California. Almost time to launch. Pucker factor increasing..."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 08:22 pm
We're hearing from multiple sources (been working it in L2) the launch date is slipping, and likely to slip past May 3.

NOT official. Don't change any plans at this time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/23/2012 08:27 pm
Well...can't say we were not warned.  :( Wonder if a slip puts into a June timeframe? Just have to see. Hope it works out for the best.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 08:28 pm
Still May, but I've heard various dates, so I'd wait for something official. It's source info, we've got one heck of a record with source info, but until it's official, don't change any plans.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tminus9 on 04/23/2012 08:57 pm
Straight from the man himself:

Quote
Am pushing launch back approx a week to do more testing on Dragon docking code. New date pending coordination with @NASA.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/194529917654941696
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 08:59 pm
I wouldn't make any plans for April 30, I'd update. I'd say this is a nailed on slip now, just waiting on a NET date.

We will write an article, but we'll respect this mission and not throw a slip article on site. We'll write it up when it's official later.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 09:00 pm
Straight from the man himself:

Quote
Am pushing launch back approx a week to do more testing on Dragon docking code. New date pending coordination with @NASA.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/194529917654941696

Ah there we go.

Again, remember this is rocket business. It's always best to slip and get it right.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: KEdward5 on 04/23/2012 09:12 pm
Show of NSF strength right there. L2 with the breaking, a few hours of source checking, then on this thread but with cautions, and no short armwavey breaking news article, instead waiting for the official comments. Love this site.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 04/23/2012 09:14 pm
Show of NSF strength right there. L2 with the breaking, a few hours of source checking, then on this thread but with cautions, and no short armwavey breaking news article, instead waiting for the official comments. Love this site.

My thoughts exactly.  I'm glad we got the news here first.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Orbiter on 04/23/2012 09:14 pm
Show of NSF strength right there. L2 with the breaking, a few hours of source checking, then on this thread but with cautions, and no short armwavey breaking news article, instead waiting for the official comments. Love this site.

NSF is incredible with the speedy updates, just like for STS, never disappoints.

Orbiter
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 09:16 pm
Nice comments, but it's the people on this site (some call them sources, I call them friends) who are the ones to thank. We have a lot of very helpful people here.

SpaceX make it official:

"Update on SpaceX COTS 2 Launch

After reviewing our recent progress, it was clear that we needed more time to finish hardware-in-the-loop testing and properly review and follow up on all data. While it is still possible that we could launch on May 3rd, it would be wise to add a few more days of margin in case things take longer than expected. As a result, our launch is likely to be pushed back by one week, pending coordination with NASA.

We will send out an announcement when a new target it set.

Thank you!"
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: docmordrid on 04/23/2012 09:24 pm
If we take he "week" literally that puts it NET May 7th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Rocket Science on 04/23/2012 09:38 pm
The stakes are high… “Failure really isn’t an option”, even though this is a test flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/23/2012 09:50 pm
If we take he "week" literally that puts it NET May 7th.

I'd say that's at the very earliest, Doc.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/23/2012 09:53 pm
It's the BIH Jim mentioned :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 04/23/2012 10:00 pm
It's the BIH Jim mentioned :D

BIH?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris-A on 04/23/2012 10:05 pm
For months I have thought over signing up to support the site, as the advertising revenues have deiced over the past few years. Thank you Mr. Bergin and the contributors, for enhancing the image and quality of NSF, to create one of the finest discussion forums on the Internet.
- Chris

The comments on the last page were very compiling, you really should sign up.  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chalmer on 04/23/2012 10:09 pm
Well it looks like we at least get a small consolation prize in the form of an earlier Atlas 5 launch:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28237.0

(Don't copy and paste copyrighted news - Carl).
  - Well it was only a few lines in quotation marks, and with a link to the source. Something i have seen in many posts on this forum so i dont know why you deleted it. Also you deleted my own comments .. Well your are the moderator .. but it just seems inconsistent ...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/23/2012 10:17 pm
It's the BIH Jim mentioned :D

BIH?
Built In Hold
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 04/23/2012 11:53 pm
I hope they didn't load those strawberries yet. :(
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Rocket Science on 04/24/2012 12:09 am
I hope they didn't load those strawberries yet. :(
“When life gives you strawberries, you make strawberry wine”… ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/24/2012 12:32 am
Is the static fire still planned for the 27th?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 12:38 am
Is the static fire still planned for the 27th?

There's a "will slip" note on the L2 processing update for the static fire, and Dragon hypers that had been rescheduled for today. But I'll check.

I was wondering about that at the same time you posted, ironically! :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Fletch on 04/24/2012 01:05 am
If we take he "week" literally that puts it NET May 7th.

Lets just make it the 14th.  Therefore my time it will make a nice 40th birthday present from SpaceX.  ::)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Hunt101 on 04/24/2012 02:00 am
I wouldn't make any plans for April 30, I'd update. I'd say this is a nailed on slip now, just waiting on a NET date.

We will write an article, but we'll respect this mission and not throw a slip article on site. We'll write it up when it's official later.

Welcome to the harsh reality of actual launches vs youtube videos, spaceX fans.

Experience is king.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 04/24/2012 02:02 am
Show of NSF strength right there. L2 with the breaking, a few hours of source checking, then on this thread but with cautions, and no short armwavey breaking news article, instead waiting for the official comments. Love this site.
My thoughts exactly.  I'm glad we got the news here first.

Bandwidth ain't free. If you get L2 for free, consider tossing a few coins into the hopper. Better yet - give L2 as a gift to someone who would enjoy it. Maybe they end up as a subscriber later.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/24/2012 02:04 am
I wouldn't make any plans for April 30, I'd update. I'd say this is a nailed on slip now, just waiting on a NET date.

We will write an article, but we'll respect this mission and not throw a slip article on site. We'll write it up when it's official later.

Welcome to the harsh reality of actual launches vs youtube videos, spaceX fans.

Experience is king.

Here come the knives... Yeah, it would be a ULA poster LOL. Sorry Jim.... Time to get back to updates.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 04/24/2012 02:06 am
Welcome to the harsh reality of actual launches vs youtube videos, spaceX fans.

Experience is king.

Methinks Hunt just read Mr Hughes's opinion piece in Space News. ;)

I would be too.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/24/2012 02:07 am
I wouldn't make any plans for April 30, I'd update. I'd say this is a nailed on slip now, just waiting on a NET date.

We will write an article, but we'll respect this mission and not throw a slip article on site. We'll write it up when it's official later.

Welcome to the harsh reality of actual launches vs youtube videos, spaceX fans.

Experience is king.
Please take this to another topic. I don't want to drag the update thread off-topic.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/24/2012 02:26 am
Launch was pushed back again I see.


Not surprised but I hope they put this docking code issue to rest and that we don't slip more then a week or two. I really want to see this thing go sooner rather then later.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 02:27 am
Easy everyone. Easy now. These threads have done well lately, let's keep them on track.

Going to start that article now, so I'll have that on later.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Micahgtb on 04/24/2012 02:34 am
SpaceX ‏ @SpaceX 
Our launch is likely to be pushed back by one week to do more testing on Dragon docking code, pending coordination with @NASA.
 
Elon Musk
‏ @elonmusk  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Am pushing launch back approx a week to do more testing on Dragon docking code. New date pending coordination with @NASA.

Are these missteps in grammar and referring to the code needed for berthing? Because I don't see NASA letting jump that far ahead, thoughts?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 02:52 am
He's right. Sure, they have to pass C2 objectives before being allowed to go to the C3 (C2+ combined) steps of the mission, but if all goes well they will go for berthing and thus they need to have all that ready if they get that far.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 05:09 am
Article on the slip and launch date evaluations - and processing etc. Will give it a standalone thread, as this thread is moving fast.

SpaceX, NASA looking for new Falcon 9 launch date following slip
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/04/spacexnasa-new-falcon-9-launch-date-slip/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/24/2012 12:27 pm
Elon Musk
‏ @elonmusk  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Am pushing launch back approx a week to do more testing on Dragon docking code. New date pending coordination with @NASA.

I can't believe even Elon Musk wrote "docking". It's berthing. Ber-thing. ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: antiquark on 04/24/2012 02:33 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kch on 04/24/2012 02:42 pm
Elon Musk
‏ @elonmusk  Reply  Retweet  Favorite · Open
Am pushing launch back approx a week to do more testing on Dragon docking code. New date pending coordination with @NASA.

I can't believe even Elon Musk wrote "docking". It's berthing. Ber-thing. ;D

You may have found the problem ... ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 02:59 pm
For months I have thought over signing up to support the site, as the advertising revenues have deiced over the past few years. Thank you Mr. Bergin and the contributors, for enhancing the image and quality of NSF, to create one of the finest discussion forums on the Internet.
- Chris

The comments on the last page were very compiling, you really should sign up.  ;)

Ooo, I missed this one. Thanks very much for the kind words - and you're support - it really mean a lot!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 04/24/2012 03:06 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?

C++, which was not a language the NASA group reviewing the code was versed in.  ::)  Seriously.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mike_1179 on 04/24/2012 03:20 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?

C++, which was not a language the NASA group reviewing the code was versed in.  ::)  Seriously.

Which begs the question, what languages are they versed in?  FORTRAN? Perl?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: starsilk on 04/24/2012 03:45 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?

C++, which was not a language the NASA group reviewing the code was versed in.  ::)  Seriously.

Which begs the question, what languages are they versed in?  FORTRAN? Perl?

likely Ada.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris-A on 04/24/2012 04:07 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?

C++, which was not a language the NASA group reviewing the code was versed in.  ::)  Seriously.

Interesting, C/C++ is the most commonly used language out there.
I believe from others here they use VxWorks and Linux, but citation is needed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: savuporo on 04/24/2012 04:08 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?

C++, which was not a language the NASA group reviewing the code was versed in.  ::)  Seriously.
Right. Why would they be ... (http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 04:14 pm
It's relevant to the launch delay, but there's potential this could turn into three pages about software lanuage, and that's going to be a bit sleepy, so carry on for now, but if it does turn into multiple pages, we'll split and start a new thread specific to it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/24/2012 04:53 pm
Here's the archive of the post FRR presser:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21900888

starts 37 minutes in. Finishes in this one:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21902433


Here are the same post FRR presser archived videos on NASA's commercial space transportation website:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=140932901
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=140937881
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 04:55 pm
Or John 44, or youtube too! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7eMODqLBrQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4I3ZRTefEo
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/24/2012 05:07 pm
OK, thanks. Even better.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/24/2012 05:10 pm
Just to be clear, because it's not obvious if you're reading this thread on a mobile device, the videos spoken of above are the post FRR *briefing*, not the FRR itself.  You all got me pretty excited there for a second.

Thanks Chris B. for software discussion warning.  As soon as that started, I thought, "aw geez, this is the kind of thing that everybody is going to have a [banal] opinion on, here comes 5 pages of armchair generalizing" :)  Please take it elsewhere and keep this thread for updates!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 05:31 pm
Edited in "post FRR presser" into the above. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lurker Steve on 04/24/2012 05:40 pm
BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know what programming language and operating system they're using for the docking code?

C++, which was not a language the NASA group reviewing the code was versed in.  ::)  Seriously.

Which begs the question, what languages are they versed in?  FORTRAN? Perl?

Is it really NASA's job to perform code reviews ? If NASA is that heavily immersed into the development process at SpaceX, there is a problem. NASA should only  need to make sure that the code was actually reviewed by a team at SpaceX, and that the proper testing processes were in place, and followed. Maybe they look at the documentation from the code reviews and testing process, but no way are they performing code inspections.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/24/2012 05:47 pm

Is it really NASA's job to perform code reviews ? If NASA is that heavily immersed into the development process at SpaceX, there is a problem. NASA should only  need to make sure that the code was actually reviewed by a team at SpaceX, and that the proper testing processes were in place, and followed. Maybe they look at the documentation from the code reviews and testing process, but no way are they performing code inspections.


Yes, it is.
Has Spacex ever approach another vehicle before?
It is not launch vehicle code, but the visiting vehicle code

Also, Spacex may have invited them.

NASA has found code problems on other commercial vehicles before.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/24/2012 05:50 pm
Geez, take the code discussion over to this topic (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28486.0), that's what it's for...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/24/2012 07:02 pm
Via @ReigelLaw, was this linked to yet?

Quote
This notice concerns two petitions for waiver submitted to the
FAA by Space Exploration Technologies Corp. (SpaceX): a petition to
waive the restriction that the risk to the public from the launch of an
expendable launch vehicle not exceed an expected average number of
0.00003 casualties (Ec <=30 x 10-6) from debris;
and a petition to waive the restriction that the combined risk to the
public from the launch and reentry of a reentry vehicle not exceed an
expected average number of 0.00003 casualties (Ec <=30 x
10-6). The FAA grants both petitions.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-04-24/html/2012-9737.htm
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/24/2012 07:53 pm
May 7 NET confirmed.

SpaceX PAO:

Update on SpaceX COTS 2 Launch

NASA and the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station have approved SpaceX’s request to set May 7th as the target launch date for the upcoming COTS 2 mission. 

We will send out updated information on launch activities in the coming days.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: IRobot on 04/24/2012 08:03 pm
I've had code reviews done by costumers. If your integration level is high, it is perfectly normal.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/24/2012 08:25 pm
May 7 NET confirmed.

Also, James Dean of Florida Today reports the static firing is now scheduled for April 30.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/24/2012 08:25 pm
Great news about the new NET May 7th launch date. Let's hope it holds this time. Just under 2 weeks away!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/24/2012 08:27 pm
Let's hope it holds this time. Just under 2 weeks away!

I've heard this one before somewhere.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 04/24/2012 09:19 pm
PAO has updated the NASA.gov portal:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/spacex_index.html

TV schedule is updated:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/cots_tv_schedule.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 04/24/2012 09:56 pm
Great news about the new NET May 7th launch date. Let's hope it holds this time. Just under 2 weeks away!

I wouldn't get too attached to any date until all the software testing is complete. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mark Max Q on 04/24/2012 10:27 pm
Actually getting excited with this. L2's coverage is awesome and the news articles are making me feel a bit "shuttley" again as other non shuttle missions are mainly launch and docking articles only.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 04/24/2012 11:49 pm
PAO has updated the NASA.gov portal:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/spacex_index.html

TV schedule is updated:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/cots_tv_schedule.html
Fly-under day back to FD3, May 9th; TV schedule reflects that:

Quote
May 6, Sunday

    1 p.m. – SpaceX/Falcon 9 Dragon Pre-Launch Briefing – KSC (All Channels)


May 7, Monday

    8 a.m. – SpaceX/Falcon 9 Dragon Launch Coverage Begins (Launch scheduled at 9:38 a.m. EDT) – KSC (All Channels)
    11 a.m. – SpaceX/Falcon 9 Dragon Post-Launch News Conference – KSC (All Channels)


May 8, Tuesday

    11 a.m. – ISS Update – JSC (All Channels)


May 9, Wednesday

    2:30 a.m. – SpaceX/Dragon Fly-Under of the ISS Coverage – JSC (All Channels)
    10 a.m. – SpaceX/Dragon Mission Status Briefing – JSC (All Channels)
    11 a.m. – ISS Update – JSC (All Channels)


May 10, Thursday

    2 a.m. – SpaceX/Dragon Grapple and Berthing Coverage – JSC (All Channels)
    1 p.m. – SpaceX/Dragon Mission Status Briefing – JSC (All Channels)


May 11, Friday

    7:30 a.m. – SpaceX/Dragon Hatch Opening Coverage – JSC (All Channels)
    TBD a.m. – ISS Expedition 31 In-Flight Event – JSC (All Channels)
    TBD – ISS Update – JSC (All Channels)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lurker Steve on 04/25/2012 12:10 am
Great news about the new NET May 7th launch date. Let's hope it holds this time. Just under 2 weeks away!

Remember the No-Earlier-Then part. They are still working the software.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/25/2012 01:48 pm
"Filling of the Dragon capsule's hypergolic propellant tanks was supposed to be completed Tuesday, according to Kirstin Brost Grantham, a SpaceX spokesperson.

The spacecraft was scheduled to be rotated from a vertical position to a horizontal orientation Thursday and attached to the upper stage of the Falcon 9 launcher inside SpaceX's hangar.

The aerodynamic nose cone is set to be integrated to the forward end of the Dragon capsule Friday.

A brief firing of the Falcon rocket's nine Merlin first stage engines is scheduled for April 30. SpaceX conducts a hotfire test of the Falcon 9's engines before each launch to check their health.

A technical review meeting is planned for Friday, and a SpaceX launch readiness review is set for May 5, according to an official familiar with the Dragon mission".

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/003/120424date/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kch on 04/25/2012 02:34 pm
Great news about the new NET May 7th launch date. Let's hope it holds this time. Just under 2 weeks away!

Remember the No-Earlier-Then part. They are still working the software.

Exactly -- the No-Earlier-Than part is the one a lot of posters ignore or just get screwed up on (seen it happen *way* too often).  I'm confident they won't launch before May 7th!  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 04/25/2012 02:41 pm
Actually getting excited with this. L2's coverage is awesome and the news articles are making me feel a bit "shuttley" again as other non shuttle missions are mainly launch and docking articles only.

I would have to agree here. This reminds me alot of the shuttle program, and I guess that is a good thing.

Makes me feel like we are finally getting back to work in space. I know its still along way from commercial crew but every step helps.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: yg1968 on 04/25/2012 03:09 pm
Great news about the new NET May 7th launch date. Let's hope it holds this time. Just under 2 weeks away!

Remember the No-Earlier-Then part. They are still working the software.

Exactly -- the No-Earlier-Than part is the one a lot of posters ignore or just get screwed up on (seen it happen *way* too often).  I'm confident they won't launch before May 7th!  ;)

True but Musk also said that they could probably launch on the 3rd of May but are being conservative by asking for the 7th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/25/2012 03:16 pm
"Filling of the Dragon capsule's hypergolic propellant tanks was supposed to be completed Tuesday, according to Kirstin Brost Grantham, a SpaceX spokesperson.

The spacecraft was scheduled to be rotated from a vertical position to a horizontal orientation Thursday and attached to the upper stage of the Falcon 9 launcher inside SpaceX's hangar.

The aerodynamic nose cone is set to be integrated to the forward end of the Dragon capsule Friday.

A brief firing of the Falcon rocket's nine Merlin first stage engines is scheduled for April 30. SpaceX conducts a hotfire test of the Falcon 9's engines before each launch to check their health.

A technical review meeting is planned for Friday, and a SpaceX launch readiness review is set for May 5, according to an official familiar with the Dragon mission".

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/003/120424date/

If they stick to the plan above, we still won't know anything until after the reviews which are a few days before launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rsnellenberger on 04/25/2012 05:49 pm
Is it necessary to have the Dragon sitting on the booster during the hotfire test?  Seems like it would be safer and easier to leave it in the clean room for the test, then bolt it on when you bring the booster back into the hanger for final checks.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/25/2012 05:55 pm
What's the point of the hotfire test *without* the spacecraft on top? The stages themselves have been shaken up several times already in McGregor.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/25/2012 06:09 pm
What's the point of the hotfire test *without* the spacecraft on top? The stages themselves have been shaken up several times already in McGregor.
Not integrated on top of each other, though.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/25/2012 06:20 pm
Well obviously, but where's the incremental usefulness in that. If SpaceX deemed a static fire without the payload is of any use, they would have done that in all their previous launches, possibly concurrently with WDRs.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/25/2012 06:21 pm
Well obviously, but where's the incremental usefulness in that. If SpaceX deemed a static fire without the payload is of any use, they would have done that in all their previous launches, possibly concurrently with WDRs.
They didn't have a Dragon capsule full of NASA's stuff (some of which may need to be kept cold) for the other launches.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/25/2012 06:28 pm
So what? That's what refrigeration and late cargo loading are for.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/25/2012 06:57 pm
I think the implication is that if they light up the first stage for test fire and the rocket blows up, you lose the capsule. That's not going to happen, hopefully.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/25/2012 07:02 pm
So what? That's what refrigeration and late cargo loading are for.
Why does the spacecraft have to be on top of the launch vehicle during a static fire, again?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/25/2012 08:12 pm
So what? That's what refrigeration and late cargo loading are for.
Why does the spacecraft have to be on top of the launch vehicle during a static fire, again?

I think the point is to do the static fire as late as possible in the processing flow, as near to launch as possible...ie with the vehicle fully integrated.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/25/2012 08:18 pm
So what? That's what refrigeration and late cargo loading are for.
Why does the spacecraft have to be on top of the launch vehicle during a static fire, again?

I think the point is to do the static fire as late as possible in the processing flow, as near to launch as possible...ie with the vehicle fully integrated.
...But one of the biggest reasons is just seeing if the engines work properly. Having a Dragon on top or not has basically no relevance to that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/25/2012 08:35 pm
But one of the biggest reasons is just seeing if the engines work properly.

No, it's not. The engines and stage have been checked out multiple times. This is an integrated test, from an electrical, vibroacoustical and what have you standpoint. Checking everything in the system and all the interactions, not a primarily propulsion system test. Having the stack not be in the flight configuration reduces the value of such a test and obviously skews some of those measurements.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lurker Steve on 04/25/2012 08:40 pm
But one of the biggest reasons is just seeing if the engines work properly.

No, it's not. The engines and stage have been checked out multiple times. This is an integrated test, from an electrical, vibroacoustical and what have you standpoint. Checking everything in the system and all the interactions, not a primarily propulsion system test. Having the stack not be in the flight configuration reduces the value of such a test and obviously skews some of those measurements.

Do you normally get feedback from the second stage and payload after one of these tests ? To assure they can handle the launch environment obviously.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/25/2012 10:48 pm
SpaceX: Earlier this week SpaceX and NASA successfully completed the last joint simulation before the upcoming mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/25/2012 10:49 pm
But one of the biggest reasons is just seeing if the engines work properly.

No, it's not. The engines and stage have been checked out multiple times. This is an integrated test, from an electrical, vibroacoustical and what have you standpoint. Checking everything in the system and all the interactions, not a primarily propulsion system test. Having the stack not be in the flight configuration reduces the value of such a test and obviously skews some of those measurements.

I agree with ugordan. It's really more of an overall systems test. You're doing a full countdown, with electrical GSE doing their systems health checks, monitoring hundreds of sensors, and making sure that everything works correctly up to and including lighting the engines. Once all the other systems check out and you reach T-0, successful engine start is practically a given, but you do have a few seconds of engine health check before shutdown. So you're mainly trying to verify that you can get to T-0 successfully in flight configuration, plus a bonus of verifying nominal engine start.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/25/2012 10:50 pm
But one of the biggest reasons is just seeing if the engines work properly.

No, it's not. The engines and stage have been checked out multiple times. This is an integrated test, from an electrical, vibroacoustical and what have you standpoint. Checking everything in the system and all the interactions, not a primarily propulsion system test. Having the stack not be in the flight configuration reduces the value of such a test and obviously skews some of those measurements.

Not really. 
a.  The vehicle isn't instrumented for such tests.
b.  This isn't going to be done for other spacecraft launches
c.  There is more risk than benefit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: stope19 on 04/25/2012 11:30 pm
SpaceX: Earlier this week SpaceX and NASA successfully completed the last joint simulation before the upcoming mission.

In the 'world map' at top of the image, there seems to be a circled area around what I suppose is the launch site - but there is another circle covering part of the south-east of Australia. Any ideas on what these circles represent?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/25/2012 11:38 pm
Remember, if they have an abort during a real launch this time, they have to wait 3 days for the next window. Doing a real static fire (even without the spacecraft) is a reasonably good way to avoid an unnecessary abort for the real launch without setting the abort criteria too stringently. Later flights will eventually have only a day to wait in case of abort and will be better characterized, thus making aborts less likely.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/25/2012 11:59 pm

In the 'world map' at top of the image, there seems to be a circled area around what I suppose is the launch site - but there is another circle covering part of the south-east of Australia. Any ideas on what these circles represent?

Tracking site coverage
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/26/2012 02:27 am
"SpaceX engineers have completed loading hypergolic maneuvering propellant into the Dragon capsule at Cape Canaveral, according to a company spokesperson.

The propellant will fuel the Dragon spacecraft's 18 Draco thrusters during the ship's flight to the International Space Station. The thrusters, which each generate up to 90 pounds of thrust, will regulate the craft's approach to the space station".

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/003/status.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: stope19 on 04/26/2012 05:35 am

In the 'world map' at top of the image, there seems to be a circled area around what I suppose is the launch site - but there is another circle covering part of the south-east of Australia. Any ideas on what these circles represent?

Tracking site coverage

Thanks Jim.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/26/2012 09:45 am
SpaceX: Earlier this week SpaceX and NASA successfully completed the last joint simulation before the upcoming mission.

I'm guessing here but I'll bet that the last minute software changes that led to the slip to 5/7 were as a result of analysis of the simulation.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/26/2012 10:10 am
SpaceX: Earlier this week SpaceX and NASA successfully completed the last joint simulation before the upcoming mission.

I'm guessing here but I'll bet that the last minute software changes that led to the slip to 5/7 were as a result of analysis of the simulation.


Unrelated.  Joint SIMs are for personnel to practice interaction and there is no hardware involved.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/26/2012 11:53 am
I haven't seen this mentioned before:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=59168

"NASA’s Mobile Aerospace Reconnaissance System, or MARS, is secured aboard NASA’s Freedom Star boat near Hangar AE at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. MARS is being prepared for a day of testing after departing from Port Canaveral out to the Atlantic Ocean. MARS, run by NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va., with its spatial, hyperspectral, thermal, and directed energy capabilities will be used for thermal imaging testing for the upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 and Dragon capsule test flight to the International Space Station. During today’s test, the MARS X-band radar and kineto tracking mount KTM were tested to ensure that they were synchronized to receive a rocket launch feed. The radar was used to identify an object to see if the KTM could lock on to and track it. The MARS team performed maintenance on the system, confirmed communications links, and tested the design of the mounting system and environmental enclosure."

What is this used for? Launch, orbital operations, or both? Tracking, telemetry, or both? Will this produce imagery we can "see"?

PS. Is this the same thing as HYTHIRM, on a boat?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/26/2012 12:42 pm

What is this used for? Launch, orbital operations,


Doesn't need to be on a boat for orbital ops
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: butters on 04/26/2012 01:00 pm
SpaceX: Earlier this week SpaceX and NASA successfully completed the last joint simulation before the upcoming mission.
I'm guessing here but I'll bet that the last minute software changes that led to the slip to 5/7 were as a result of analysis of the simulation.

I haven't read any evidence of last-minute software changes. Maybe a scope expansion of the test series, or possibly only a schedule extension for the planned testing. Changing the software at this stage would be a much bigger deal, more than a one-week slip. A one-week slip would only give them enough extra time to run some more tests, not to validate a new build.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: butters on 04/26/2012 01:03 pm

What is this used for? Launch, orbital operations,


Doesn't need to be on a boat for orbital ops

Sounds like it could be useful for collecting thermal and structural data on first stage reentry.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: cneth on 04/26/2012 01:20 pm
I haven't seen this mentioned before:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=59168


Freedom and Liberty Star are now in Portsmouth, NH, waiting for the launch.   Here's a local media account (with some pics):

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20120425-NEWS-204250365
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: phred on 04/26/2012 02:57 pm

Sounds like it could be useful for collecting thermal and structural data on first stage reentry.

It says in the article on seacoastonline.com that they'll use it to observe the ascent.  It would be cool if they could learn something about the reentry as well. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: SpacexULA on 04/26/2012 04:14 pm

Sounds like it could be useful for collecting thermal and structural data on first stage reentry.

It says in the article on seacoastonline.com that they'll use it to observe the ascent.  It would be cool if they could learn something about the reentry as well. 

I don't think think those boats are going to make it to the coast of California in time. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/26/2012 04:54 pm

Sounds like it could be useful for collecting thermal and structural data on first stage reentry.

It says in the article on seacoastonline.com that they'll use it to observe the ascent.  It would be cool if they could learn something about the reentry as well. 

I don't think think those boats are going to make it to the coast of California in time. :)

I was thinking 1st stage "reentry", but it probably can only track one target at at time, most likely 2nd stage/Dragon, right?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/26/2012 05:00 pm
Is there any reason to believe they would track the 2nd stage as opposed to the 1st stage reentry?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/26/2012 05:09 pm
Is there any reason to believe they would track the 2nd stage as opposed to the 1st stage reentry?

They tried to track the 2nd stage to impact on previous flights, correct? I'm wondering if maybe they (NASA or SpaceX) don't care as much now that the recovery strategy has changed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/26/2012 05:16 pm
They tried to track the 2nd stage to impact on previous flights, correct?

You mean the 1st stage? I only remember that on flight 1 the tracking radar (?) locked onto the 2nd stage by mistake.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/26/2012 05:24 pm
You mean the 1st stage? I only remember that on flight 1 the tracking radar (?) locked onto the 2nd stage by mistake.

Yes, I meant 1st stage, sorry.  Previous campaigns made use of some type of X-band radar asset (like you mention), and a thermal or infrared telescope out of Hawaii, to track Dragon reentry.

Also, on some Shuttle missions, a Navy P-3 Orion "cast glance" was used to observe reentry, as well as an airborne HYTHIRM. Would be great if these were used again for Dragon missions.  I believe MARS (correct me if I'm wrong) is a evolution of HYTHIRM, hopefully any data will be made available, if only on L2, perhaps.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/26/2012 06:02 pm
SpaceX: Earlier this week SpaceX and NASA successfully completed the last joint simulation before the upcoming mission.

Boy would I love to see a high-res version of that photo, or the screens in that Mission Control Center ...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mapperuo on 04/26/2012 06:19 pm
I haven't seen this mentioned before:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=59168

As a photographer my other inner geek let out a scream, Thats a RED camera they have attached to a tracking lens in that photo. RED being a 4K camera, Now that will be a cracking video!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mduncan36 on 04/26/2012 06:22 pm
I haven't seen this mentioned before:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=59168

As a photographer my other inner geek let out a scream, Thats a RED camera they have attached to a tracking lens in that photo. RED being a 4K camera, Now that will be a cracking video!

Beat me to it. Yes, that should do the job very nicely. Think of the crop, captures, etc. that you could do with that. Actually that's exactly what they will do with it. Very cool.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/26/2012 07:32 pm
A coworker told me today that on a recent airline flight he sat next to Walt Lindblom (the SAIC half of the NASA TV HD leadership) and he was showing him pictures of their RED setups for the last two shuttle launches.  So the video is out there ...

Oh look, now *I* am getting offtopic.  Shocking!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/26/2012 08:14 pm
Former Shuttle Booster Recovery Ship to Image SpaceX Launch

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/scifli.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/26/2012 08:43 pm
Former Shuttle Booster Recovery Ship to Image SpaceX Launch

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/scifli.html

Awesome. This is going to be the best SpaceX mission coverage yet.

Question: What capability is implied by "directed energy"?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: docmordrid on 04/26/2012 08:58 pm
....As a photographer my other inner geek let out a scream, Thats a RED camera they have attached to a tracking lens in that photo. RED being a 4K camera, Now that will be a cracking video!

BBC plans to demo UHDTV (8k - 4320p) at the summer Olympics this year :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Kabloona on 04/26/2012 09:42 pm
Former Shuttle Booster Recovery Ship to Image SpaceX Launch

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/scifli.html

Awesome. This is going to be the best SpaceX mission coverage yet.

Question: What capability is implied by "directed energy"?


Not sure what the context is, but the phrase that comes to my mind is "directed energy weapon."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/26/2012 10:46 pm
Some good views of the Dragon CCP (Crew Command Panel) near the Lab RWS.

http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e250643.html

http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e250651.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: krytek on 04/27/2012 07:41 am
Some good views of the Dragon CCP (Crew Command Panel) near the Lab RWS.

http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e250643.html

http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e250651.html

Paperwork....in space!

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Garrett on 04/27/2012 08:41 am
Is the Falcon 9 static fire test still scheduled for today? I have a vague recollection of some talk about another type of FRR going on today that might, for some reason, delay the fire.
If it is today, do we have a time?
Cheers
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/27/2012 08:43 am
Is the Falcon 9 static fire test still scheduled for today?

As of now, Monday.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/27/2012 08:57 am
Some good views of the Dragon CCP (Crew Command Panel) near the Lab RWS.

http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e250643.html

http://www.spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-30/html/iss030e250651.html
Why isn't the CCP in Cupola?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/27/2012 12:32 pm
I want that Mars telescope dome!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: TimL on 04/27/2012 01:07 pm
Me too, but I don't have the 12 grand to buy the small 7' from AstroHaven...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/27/2012 01:15 pm
Good news:

SpaceX to Webcast Static Fire for Upcoming Mission on Monday

Mission Would Make SpaceX the First Commercial Company to Attempt to Send a Spacecraft to the International Space Station

 

Hawthorne, CA – On Monday, April 30, Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) will webcast a static fire test of the Falcon 9 rocket’s nine powerful Merlin engines in preparation for the company’s upcoming launch.


The webcast, available at www.spacex.com, is set to begin at 2:30 PM ET/ 11:30 AM PT, with the actual static fire targeted for 3:00 PM ET/ 12:00 PM PT.


The 9 engine test will take place at the company’s Space Launch Complex 40 (SLC-40) at the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station as part of a full launch dress rehearsal leading up to the second Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) launch.  During the rehearsal, SpaceX engineers will run through all countdown processes as though it were launch day. The exercise will end with all nine engines firing at full power for two seconds.

 

After the test, SpaceX will conduct a thorough review of all data as engineers make final preparations for the upcoming launch, currently targeted for May 7.  SpaceX plans to launch its Dragon spacecraft into low-Earth orbit atop a Falcon 9 rocket.  During the mission, Dragon’s sensors and flight systems will be subject to a series of tests to determine if the vehicle is ready to berth with the space station.  If NASA decides Dragon is ready, the vehicle will attach to the station and astronauts will open Dragon’s hatch and unload the cargo onboard.

This will be the first attempt by a commercial company to send a spacecraft to the International Space Station, a feat previously performed by only a few governments.  Success is not guaranteed.  If any aspect of the mission is not successful, SpaceX will learn from the experience and try again.


It is also the second demonstration flight under NASA’s program to develop commercial supply services to the International Space Station. The first SpaceX COTS flight, in December 2010, made SpaceX the first commercial company in history to send a spacecraft to orbit and return it safely to Earth. Once SpaceX demonstrates the ability to carry cargo to the space station, it will begin to fulfill its Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) contract for NASA for at least 12 missions to carry cargo to and from the space station.  The Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon spacecraft were designed to one day carry astronauts; both the COTS and CRS missions will yield valuable flight experience toward this goal. 

 

SpaceX also plans to broadcast the entire launch live at www.spacex.com on launch day. 

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/27/2012 01:18 pm
Oh and that WAS the mission patch we saw on a L2 document a few weeks back! (Funny as the document was not FRR or such level, it was a launch site support document and thus we couldn't work out if it was the official patch! :D)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 04/27/2012 04:53 pm
Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) will webcast a static fire test of the Falcon 9 rocket’s nine powerful Merlin engines in preparation for the company’s upcoming launch. ... SpaceX also plans to broadcast the entire launch live at www.spacex.com on launch day. 

My fingers will be crossed that it actually works for the static fire, but even if it does I wouldn't count on it working for the actual launch.

Their stream couldn't hold up during the previous Falcon 1 and 9 launches, so I seriously doubt they will hold up under what will be a huge audience for the actual launch.  We'll end up relying on NASA cameras and general media (e.g. CNN).  At least this time, we'll have those options since it's officially a demo for NASA.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: e of pi on 04/27/2012 05:03 pm
I dunno, the webcast for Falcon 9 Flight 2 seemed a lot better than that for Flight 1, and IIRC didn't they hire someone specializing in webcasting in the last year or so? I think I remember someone's name being talked about here, but I can't recall who.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mrbliss on 04/27/2012 05:04 pm
Oh and that WAS the mission patch we saw on a L2 document a few weeks back! (Funny as the document was not FRR or such level, it was a launch site support document and thus we couldn't work out if it was the official patch! :D)

And will there be a "plus" patch to sew on, after the C2 requirements are achieved? ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/27/2012 05:09 pm
These images are credited to NASA, expect to get higher res versions before long:

EDIT- Now they are, and more:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225

Keep checking, more are being added.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mrhuggy on 04/27/2012 06:51 pm
Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) will webcast a static fire test of the Falcon 9 rocket’s nine powerful Merlin engines in preparation for the company’s upcoming launch. ... SpaceX also plans to broadcast the entire launch live at www.spacex.com on launch day. 

My fingers will be crossed that it actually works for the static fire, but even if it does I wouldn't count on it working for the actual launch.

Their stream couldn't hold up during the previous Falcon 1 and 9 launches, so I seriously doubt they will hold up under what will be a huge audience for the actual launch.  We'll end up relying on NASA cameras and general media (e.g. CNN).  At least this time, we'll have those options since it's officially a demo for NASA.


SpaceX hired a guy that knows how to stream big NASA events very well like the past shuttle launches (not NASA). I'm very confident that the SpaceX webcast will be 'Awesome'.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jason1701 on 04/27/2012 07:01 pm
The guy with the stache was great, I hope he's back.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/27/2012 07:07 pm
Integration pic.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/27/2012 07:27 pm
The guy in the foreground has a "Magic Dragon" tee shirt :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/27/2012 07:32 pm
Another angle of Solar Pontoon. You can see the black molding between the heatshield and the pontoon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/27/2012 07:40 pm
And now for the most important part...designer headwear.  :P
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Maverick on 04/27/2012 07:43 pm
Oh and that WAS the mission patch we saw on a L2 document a few weeks back! (Funny as the document was not FRR or such level, it was a launch site support document and thus we couldn't work out if it was the official patch! :D)

Not surprised. L2's special section for this mission is awesome. Really helped by the level of people providing answers to things too!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/27/2012 07:46 pm
Can anyone shed any light on what the smooth bumps are on the lower part of the nose cone?
Also, I've never seen any jettison mechanism for the nose cone, is it the same or similar to the stage separation mechanism?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: simonbp on 04/27/2012 07:55 pm
The guy in the foreground has a "Magic Dragon" tee shirt :)

Heh, nice catch! I've actually got a Magic Dragon shirt, but it's XXL and I look like I'm swimming in it...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/27/2012 08:49 pm
Is there a reason why the trunk alignment is not symmetrical with the capsule?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/27/2012 08:53 pm
Is there a reason why the trunk alignment is not symmetrical with the capsule?
I think it has to do with late loading of Dragon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/27/2012 09:37 pm
These images are credited to NASA, expect to get higher res versions before long:

EDIT- Now they are, and more:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225

Keep checking, more are being added.

Real good safety practices going on there. 

Wearing shorts while lifting a spacecraft loaded with propellants.  Or even being in the area with a loaded spacecraft.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/27/2012 09:38 pm

SpaceX hired a guy that knows how to stream big Nasa events very well like the past shuttle launches (not Nasa). I'm very confident that the SpaceX webcast will be 'Awesome'.


NASA, all uppercase.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: woods170 on 04/27/2012 09:54 pm
These images are credited to NASA, expect to get higher res versions before long:

EDIT- Now they are, and more:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=225

Keep checking, more are being added.

Real good safety practices going on there. 

Wearing shorts while lifting a spacecraft loaded with propellants.  Or even being in the area with a loaded spacecraft.

With regards to the latter: that's not much different from this shot (http://www.arianespace.com/images/missionup-dates/2012/883-lg.jpg) of hoisting ATV 5 (also loaded with propellant) onto Ariane 5.
And also no different from the way the Russians integrate fully loaded Soyuz and Progress spacecraft (http://www.energia.ru/ru/iss/iss30/progress_m-15m/im/photo_04-17-13.jpg) with the Soyuz launcher.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/27/2012 10:00 pm
How can you tell whether the propellants are loaded or not?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: SpacexULA on 04/27/2012 10:08 pm
How can you tell whether the propellants are loaded or not?

It's usually a pretty big deal the 1st time they load fuel into a spacecraft, if your following a launch they announce it.  Don't think there is a easy way to tell by looking at a spacecraft.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/27/2012 10:10 pm

With regards to the latter: that's not much different from this shot (http://www.arianespace.com/images/missionup-dates/2012/883-lg.jpg) of hoisting ATV 5 (also loaded with propellant) onto Ariane 5.


I meant wearing shorts in the same area around a loaded spacecraft, not people in the area.   People have to be there to perform the operation.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/27/2012 10:11 pm
How can you tell whether the propellants are loaded or not?

Read earlier in the thread.  Propellants were loaded on Monday.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lee Jay on 04/27/2012 10:15 pm
Real good safety practices going on there. 

Wearing shorts while lifting a spacecraft loaded with propellants.  Or even being in the area with a loaded spacecraft.

I've seen many people in the VAB pictures during orbiter rotation to vertical and lift into position not wearing hard hats, safety glasses or safety shoes, and in a couple of cases I've seen people standing under the load.  Not sure how anyone at NASA gets away with that sort of thing, especially in pictures.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/27/2012 10:17 pm
Why isn't the CCP in Cupola?

It will be moved to the Cupola for the capture (it was only in the Lab for tests).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/27/2012 10:30 pm
How can you tell whether the propellants are loaded or not?

Read earlier in the thread.  Propellants were loaded on Monday.
Found it thanks. Are there any outward appearances that would give an indication that a vehicle is loaded?
Why are shorts worse around hypergols than say long pants? I thought you needed SCAPE suits.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/27/2012 10:37 pm

With regards to the latter: that's not much different from this shot (http://www.arianespace.com/images/missionup-dates/2012/883-lg.jpg) of hoisting ATV 5 (also loaded with propellant) onto Ariane 5.


I meant wearing shorts in the same area around a loaded spacecraft, not people in the area.   People have to be there to perform the operation.
I would almost imagine shorts are better than (say) slacks or scrubs, since you want to be able to wash the skin off as quickly as possible in case of a spill instead of being soaked and then have to strip and then have to wash. Having different cleanliness requirements is different than having poor safety.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/27/2012 10:42 pm
Is there a reason why the trunk alignment is not symmetrical with the capsule?

The solar arrays, when deployed, are 90 deg or "symmetrically aligned" to the hatch/grapple door, but when stowed or folded for launch they're not, nor are the pontoons.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 04/27/2012 11:22 pm
Why isn't the CCP in Cupola?

It will be moved to the Cupola for the capture (it was only in the Lab for tests).
Thanks Pete.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/27/2012 11:24 pm
The way they were dressed you would think they were sound engineers at a gig not working on rockets. Safety first!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: jimvela on 04/27/2012 11:34 pm

With regards to the latter: that's not much different from this shot (http://www.arianespace.com/images/missionup-dates/2012/883-lg.jpg) of hoisting ATV 5 (also loaded with propellant) onto Ariane 5.


I meant wearing shorts in the same area around a loaded spacecraft, not people in the area.   People have to be there to perform the operation.
I would almost imagine shorts are better than (say) slacks or scrubs, since you want to be able to wash the skin off as quickly as possible in case of a spill instead of being soaked and then have to strip and then have to wash. Having different cleanliness requirements is different than having poor safety.

You've never worked around a spacecraft fully fueled with hypergols, have you?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/28/2012 12:35 am
I've never seen any jettison mechanism for the nose cone, is it the same or similar to the stage separation mechanism?

See the partial hinge indicated in the attached photo. When the nosecap is jettisoned, a pneumatic cylinder or spring pushes/flips the cap over, and when it has rotated enough to reach the open part of the hinge, it falls away.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/28/2012 01:12 am
NASA Video update:

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=141872331
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/28/2012 02:25 am
Thanks corrroded nut. That makes it very clear.
In the NASA video update above, they show an old SpaceX  F9 video, in that video the nose cone is two halves, this one looks to be one piece.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: jongoff on 04/28/2012 02:27 am
The guy with the stache was great, I hope he's back.

That's Kevin Brogan (aka "K-Bro"), he was the original designer of the Kestrel engine.

~Jon
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: jongoff on 04/28/2012 02:35 am
The way they were dressed you would think they were sound engineers at a gig not working on rockets. Safety first!

I would've hated to hear the commentary if Masten had posted more pictures...

~Jon
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jason1701 on 04/28/2012 04:14 am
The guy with the stache was great, I hope he's back.

That's Kevin Brogan (aka "K-Bro"), he was the original designer of the Kestrel engine.

~Jon

Oh. I thought Mueller built the first Kestrel in his garage before the company started.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/28/2012 04:26 am
The guy with the stache was great, I hope he's back.

That's Kevin Brogan (aka "K-Bro"), he was the original designer of the Kestrel engine.

~Jon

Oh. I thought Mueller built the first Kestrel in his garage before the company started.
Mueller was working on a turbo pump engine in his garage, not Kestrel (which is pressure-fed).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/28/2012 08:57 am
NASA, all uppercase.

If you wanna be pedantic, SpaceX ends with an uppercase X, not "Spacex" as you invariably write.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: dcporter on 04/28/2012 01:12 pm
Elon on Twitter, complete with nice hero shot of the rocket:

Quote
Dragon review completed. All systems now ready for full thrust hold down firing on Monday. http://t.co/wDQHfgZm

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/statuses/196138087078825984
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: SpacexULA on 04/28/2012 03:41 pm
http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

New SpaceX update
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jason1701 on 04/28/2012 06:18 pm
http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

New SpaceX update

Heh.. guy's wearing a SpaceX 69 shirt.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: billh on 04/28/2012 08:16 pm
Regarding safety around hypergolic fuels. Here's a shot from the recovery of Skylab I. That's a friend of mine in the foreground. His caption on the photo reads "Standing in front of the vehicle as the vehicle team deactivates the thrusters." My buddy is wearing some kind of mask, but the other guys look like they could be fixing your washing machine instead of deactivating RCS thrusters.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: jabe on 04/28/2012 08:20 pm
webcast page is updated..
http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mapperuo on 04/29/2012 03:07 pm
webcast page is updated..
http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php

Looks like they are using LiveStream this time rather than their own server, Should solve the lag issues folks had last time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 04/29/2012 04:41 pm
Do we know if rollout is supposed to happen today or tomorrow?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: paycom on 04/29/2012 07:38 pm
Do we know if rollout is supposed to happen today or tomorrow?
I suppose the Falcon 9 is already standing verticaly at the pad.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/29/2012 08:13 pm
We'll do a live thread for the static fire to keep everything organized. :) I'll set up later tonight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Comga on 04/29/2012 09:05 pm
Do we know if rollout is supposed to happen today or tomorrow?
I suppose the Falcon 9 is already standing verticaly at the pad.
LC-40 used to be on KSC Live Video (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/newvideo.html) channel 11.  However, the page shows a Shuttle on the launch pad but no Falcon 9.  :-(
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/29/2012 11:02 pm
Do we know if rollout is supposed to happen today or tomorrow?

Roll out confirmed, it's vertical.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/30/2012 12:17 am
That means they are not trying to improve their rollout to launch time with this launch. 60 minutes roll out to launch is a stated goal.
As Urgordon pointed out earlier, it will be interesting to see if they can pull off the static fire first time, at the intended time, as this is crucial to next weeks launch with an instantaneous window.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jim on 04/30/2012 12:19 am
That means they are not trying to improve their rollout to launch time with this launch. 60 minutes roll out to launch is a stated goal.
As Urgordon pointed out earlier, it will be interesting to see if they can pull off the static fire first time, at the intended time, as this is crucial to next weeks launch with an instantaneous window.

It depends on if they are going power up the Dragon and put it into launch configuration.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/30/2012 12:21 am
That means they are not trying to improve their rollout to launch time with this launch. 60 minutes roll out to launch is a stated goal.
As Urgordon pointed out earlier, it will be interesting to see if they can pull off the static fire first time, at the intended time, as this is crucial to next weeks launch with an instantaneous window.

It depends on if they are going power up the Dragon and put it into launch configuration.
Out of pure curiosity, would you describe that process a little please.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 04/30/2012 03:16 am
The Falcon 9 on the launch pad. (source: SpaceX's Facebook account)

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 04/30/2012 03:19 am
Old pic from wet dress you can tell because Dragon is covered and no dragon logos on solar pontoons.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 04/30/2012 03:25 am
I just checked the weather for Cape Canaveral, there's a Thunderstorm predicted for tonight & Sunny with 20+ mph gusts tomorrow, 83 degrees & horrifically humid. The long range forecast calls for rain on the 6th & Sunny & Hot on the 7th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: grakenverb on 04/30/2012 11:56 am
What time is the launch planned for on May 7th?  I'm making my work schedule for next week and would like to be able to watch.........
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 04/30/2012 12:20 pm
What time is the launch planned for on May 7th?  I'm making my work schedule for next week and would like to be able to watch.........

1338 GMT, 9:38 am EDT
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: grakenverb on 04/30/2012 01:10 pm
What time is the launch planned for on May 7th?  I'm making my work schedule for next week and would like to be able to watch.........

1338 GMT, 9:38 am EDT


Thank you! 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 04/30/2012 05:11 pm
Some technical observations on the Dragon CBM hatch:

As we already know from previous images, the Dragon CBM bulkhead is covered with a white heat-proof material, which features removable panels to expose the vestibule connectors.

With regard the CBM hatch itself, it has also been noted previously that the Dragon CBM hatch is mounted upside-down from its normal orientation on other vehicles or ISS modules - meaning the tension rod assemblies (which secure the hatch closed during launch & landing) are on the inside of the vehicle, instead of the outside. This is likely to protect the tension rods from the heat of re-entry (if the tension rods melted, the hatch would come open, leading to depressurisation and loss of cargo).

The tension rod assemblies are usually on the outside of the hatch in order to allow the ISS crew access to the rods (for observation/intervention/removal) in case the hatch jams or fails to open. Thus, having the rods on the inside represents an increased risk there - although likely the risk of having them on the outside, and thus exposed to re-entry, is higher.

It has also been noted in the past that what appears to be a camera inside Dragon, pointing toward the hatch area, may be either for observation that the tension rods operate correctly, or observation of heat loads on the hatch area during re-entry - or maybe both of the above.

The outside of the Dragon CBM hatch (which is usually on the inside of other vehicles), unobstructed by the tension rods, is covered in what appears to be a heat-proof gold blanket (see attached image).

More stuff like this to come throughout the Dragon mission, as we finally start to see photos of how SpaceX have solved the stuff we've all been wondering about! :)

-----
Edit:

An additional observation: The CBM hatch window is actually non-existant (it is blocked off with a metal plate) - again likely due to heat load concerns. Having windows in hatches is usually a requirement, so that the crew can observe for any debris prior to opening the hatch. So, as with the tension rods, this could be a break from nominal procedure or a waived requirement. This may also be another explanation for the internal camera.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: edfishel on 04/30/2012 05:46 pm
Pete... love those details. Keep them coming! :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 04/30/2012 06:55 pm
That means they are not trying to improve their rollout to launch time with this launch. 60 minutes roll out to launch is a stated goal.
As Urgordon pointed out earlier, it will be interesting to see if they can pull off the static fire first time, at the intended time, as this is crucial to next weeks launch with an instantaneous window.

It depends on if they are going power up the Dragon and put it into launch configuration.
Watching the webcast it appears they are powering up Dragon and putting into launch configuration
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 05/01/2012 01:04 pm
The long range weather forecast is calling for rain on the 7th. I sure hope it changes.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 05/01/2012 01:10 pm
The long range weather forecast is calling for rain on the 7th.
Whose forecast and when on the 7th?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Lee Jay on 05/01/2012 01:14 pm
It has also been noted in the past that what appears to be a camera inside Dragon, pointing toward the hatch area, may be either for observation that the tension rods operate correctly, or observation of heat loads on the hatch area during re-entry - or maybe both of the above.

A thermal camera can't be mounted behind a dome or else it would be detecting the temperature of the dome instead of what's behind it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 05/01/2012 01:16 pm
The long range weather forecast is calling for rain on the 7th. I sure hope it changes.

IMHO it's not worth bothering with weather forecasts this far out.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 05/01/2012 01:18 pm
A thermal camera can't be mounted behind a dome or else it would be detecting the temperature of the dome instead of what's behind it.

There are optics in front of the detector in any case and IR light interacts with it. What's so different about one more layer of transparent material if it's carefully chosen?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: pippin on 05/01/2012 01:49 pm
A thermal camera can't be mounted behind a dome or else it would be detecting the temperature of the dome instead of what's behind it.
Depends on the dome
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r9ih6he768I/Tsdx5RAmyLI/AAAAAAAAFVA/OmJOKEYHgmU/s1600/AIM-9x2_Raytheon+export+f-16+15++pakistan+india.jpg
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: zeke01 on 05/01/2012 02:20 pm
The long range weather forecast is calling for rain on the 7th. I sure hope it changes.

Meh.

Objective guidance suggest near climatology values at that time range ~30% chance of rain from both U.S. and European models -- in other words low confidence.  Much too early to say rain six days out, let alone what time of day.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: DaveS on 05/01/2012 02:40 pm
The long range weather forecast is calling for rain on the 7th. I sure hope it changes.

IMHO it's not worth bothering with weather forecasts this far out.
Correct. And I guess the forecast for rain comes from a automated weather service right? Those are not worth dealing with as they tend to be more wrong than right.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: subzero788 on 05/01/2012 03:12 pm
No point trying to guess the weather on an NET date anyway
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Nomadd on 05/01/2012 03:13 pm
A thermal camera can't be mounted behind a dome or else it would be detecting the temperature of the dome instead of what's behind it.

There are optics in front of the detector in any case and IR light interacts with it. What's so different about one more layer of transparent material if it's carefully chosen?

Not so much the dome blocking the IR but the dome radiating IR. If it's the same temp as the sensor, there shouldn't be a problem as long as it's (obviously) transparent to the right wavelengths.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 05/01/2012 03:42 pm
NASA video about Dragon berthing for this flight.
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=80591&media_id=142266251#
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 05/01/2012 03:57 pm
NASA video about Dragon berthing for this flight.
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=80591&media_id=142266251#
Thanks for pointer.  Didn't see this in today's ISS Update, but also posted on the ReelNASA YT channel.  Good interview and show and tell ("Josh Byerly talks with space station training instructors Jeff Tuxhorn and Graeme Newman"); looks like one of the domes at the Systems Engineering Simulator in Building 16 at JSC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZO27PSZbrc

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 05/01/2012 04:03 pm
NASA video about Dragon berthing for this flight.
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=80591&media_id=142266251#
Thanks for pointer.  Didn't see this in today's ISS Update, but also posted on the ReelNASA YT channel.  Good interview and show and tell ("Josh Byerly talks with space station training instructors Jeff Tuxhorn and Graeme Newman"); looks like one of the domes at the Systems Engineering Simulator in Building 16 at JSC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZO27PSZbrc



Yes, the Alpha Dome. The cupola is in there permanently now that the shuttle aft cockpit is retired.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 05/01/2012 04:09 pm
Yes, the Alpha Dome. The cupola is in there permanently now that the shuttle aft cockpit is retired.
Thanks, Jorge.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/01/2012 06:46 pm
Nice video. Some decent quotage in there! (Got to do that big flight profile overview article this week).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Danderman on 05/01/2012 09:59 pm
Integration pic.

High res version attached
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: go4mars on 05/01/2012 10:01 pm
The scale in the background says 12746.  If that is in fact a scale...

Useless anyways.  No idea how much that holding frame weighs...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: oiorionsbelt on 05/01/2012 10:07 pm
Yes, some good details in that video I'd not seen before, for example the FRGF appears to attach directly to the 'door' once it's opened. Starting about 4:54 into the video.
 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: robertross on 05/02/2012 12:31 am
The scale in the background says 12746.  If that is in fact a scale...

Useless anyways.  No idea how much that holding frame weighs...

Looks like 1240 lbs for the front one  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 05/02/2012 12:39 am
From ISS On-Orbit Status Report for 01/05/12

In Node 3, André Kuipers installed the CCR (Cupola Crew Restraint) at the Cup RWS (Robotic Workstation) in preparation for the subsequent SSRMS OBT (Space Station Remote Manipulator System Onboard Training) session (later removing it again), and Don Pettit set up the SSRMS DOUG (Dynamic Onboard Ubiquitous Graphics) application. [DOUG is a special application running on the MSS (Mobile Service System) RWS laptops that provides a graphical birdseye-view image of the external station configuration and the SSRMS arm, showing its real-time location and configuration on a laptop during its operation. CCR serves to stabilize an SSRMS operator at the worksite in micro-g, acting similar to a seat belt.]

André & Don then spent ~2 hrs on the 3rd (of 3) SpaceX Demo Offset Grapple OBT session, practicing SSRMS misaligned grapple approaches in preparation for the Dragon capture (the 1st OBT was performed on 4/18, the 2nd on 4/20). [Objectives of the OBT are: Familiarization with robotic operations from the Cupola RWS, practice good hand controller techniques and successful grapple approaches, and execute a Hot Backup transition and CCP (Crew Command Panel) relocation to the Lab RWS. There are a total of three SSRMS Offset Grapples sessions in the OBT plan for Dragon capture. For the sessions, the robotarm is pre-positioned at the PMM FRGF (Permanent Multipurpose Module Flight Releasable Grapple Fixture) High Hover Position, and the crew is free to complete misaligned grapple approaches to the PMM FRGF in order to familiarize themselves with operations from the Cupola RWS (volumetric constraints, stabilization, camera lighting, CCP lighting, etc.). During the final session, Don & André had the opportunity to practice a full Hot Backup transition, including the CCP relocation to the Lab RWS in the 3rd session.]
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 05/02/2012 01:26 am
This is a decent 4-part interview. Elon talks about the upcoming mission, but you'll have to suffer through some car rental ads:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47207833
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/02/2012 01:48 am
Working it in L2, but we expect the May 7 launch date to slip.

Updated the Static Fire article (UPDATE 2) to reflect:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/05/falcon-9s-merlin-engines-for-may-7-target/

NOT official, but multiple sources.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: sojourner on 05/02/2012 02:24 am
Damn.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 05/02/2012 02:29 am
Damn.

A SpaceX launch delay?  Unheard of!   ;)

We all know it will launch when it launches, and not a minute sooner.  It's good that people that are newer to spaceflight will realize the true difficulty of this type of mission.  I would anticipate that the delays will continue until there are simply no other practical ways to reduce risk.  Right now they are trying to hammer out every tiny detail. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Wyvern on 05/02/2012 02:29 am
Gah, any word on how back the slip will be?  I hope it's just another week or two.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 05/02/2012 02:36 am
Working it in L2, but we expect the May 7 launch date to slip.

Updated the Static Fire article (UPDATE 2) to reflect:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/05/falcon-9s-merlin-engines-for-may-7-target/

NOT official, but multiple sources.


Do we know if this is engine related or ongoing issues with the software coding?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: b ramsey on 05/02/2012 02:37 am
Well after a year and half of waiting for this launch its now unfortunatly going to be a night launch, that makes for lame viewing. Bummer
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: FinalFrontier on 05/02/2012 02:39 am
Well after a year and half of waiting for this launch its now unfortunatly going to be a night launch, that makes for lame viewing. Bummer

We don't know what the new NET will be or when so there is no way to know that.


And night launches are spectacular so why would this be a bad thing?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 05/02/2012 02:39 am
No idea of slip amount or reason, but we should know more in the morning.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: b ramsey on 05/02/2012 02:43 am

More than likely it well be a night launch unless it slips a month
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 05/02/2012 03:15 am
very depressing...most likely it won't be a night launch as they are bringing out all the cameras for this launch. Looks like June. There will be a public roasting for sure. All I can say is they better not launch on Memorial day weekend as most of us will be away.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Wyvern on 05/02/2012 03:36 am
Okay that settles it, I'm going to get L2 just so I can see the advanced knowledge from the people of that section.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 05/02/2012 04:00 am
very depressing...most likely it won't be a night launch as they are bringing out all the cameras for this launch. Looks like June.
Wait what?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Wyvern on 05/02/2012 04:11 am
http://www.cbsnews.com/network/news/space/home/spacenews/files/3f8a43db532f88e3f0ed6b8fe9876eeb-403.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 05/02/2012 04:25 am


"NASA space station managers would prefer to delay the flight until after the Soyuz docking because there would be no backup opportunity if the weather or a technical problem prevented takeoff May 10 and because SpaceX would not have a second chance to dock with the station if something went awry during the rendezvous. "



I am thinking that SpaceX may try to launch on the 10th but it could be scrubbed.  So the real launch is probably NET Mid-May or June
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 05/02/2012 04:50 am
I think they need to wait until after the Soyuz docking as they need every chance to dock with the station. Looks like late May, Early June.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Halidon on 05/02/2012 08:42 am
Ah, the frustration of it all! Here I was thinking the good hotfire meant smooth sailing, forgot that Dragon's software is still the sticking point and not Falcon's engines.

Re: March 10th, forgive an orbital mechanics noob but what prevents a second docking attempt with a launch on this date? Soyuz doesn't lift until the 15th, Dragon berthing would be on the 13th.  It would take two plus days for Dragon to re-set for another approach after a waive-off?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/02/2012 11:10 am
Here I was thinking the good hotfire meant smooth sailing

Remember:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/05/falcon-9s-merlin-engines-for-may-7-target/

Quote
Following the firing of the engines, SpaceX engineers have been tasked with a thorough review of all data as part of the final preparations for the upcoming launch. This will result in one of the final reviews to clear the vehicle for its mission.

The most crucial item to be reviewed after the test will be inspections of the engines themselves, so as to ensure the issues of delamination are not observed.


As much as this appears to be more likely to be Dragon/ISS issues still.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 05/02/2012 11:13 am
And night launches are spectacular so why would this be a bad thing?

If you're actually there, perhaps, but they suck big time if all you get to do is follow it on screen.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 05/02/2012 12:57 pm
And night launches are spectacular so why would this be a bad thing?

If you're actually there, perhaps, but they suck big time if all you get to do is follow it on screen.

Also, I was really looking forward to seeing the MARS (visable wavelength) video, even if it's not live. Perhaps the vehicle will be in sunlight at altitude for staging/seperation events, if not, thermal will have to do. Can anyone say if this will be the case, or not, yet?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/02/2012 01:23 pm
So with all the delays, does that mean they may need to combine COTS 2/3 and CRS1 ;)

Seriously, as long as it safely gets off the ground day or night, that is all that counts.

Remember Orbital has had delays with the Antares. Anyone ever notice that when you look at the list of coming year launches, by the end of the year many have always slipped into the following year. I really would like to say it is not SpaceX's fault, but really what I should say is it is not something SpaceX should be crucified over.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 05/02/2012 01:34 pm
Seriously, as long as it safely gets off the ground day or night, that is all that counts.
I think I know what you mean, but launch is just the beginning of what counts to me.  Falcon gets a lot of attention, but this flight will hopefully be much more of a Dragon show.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ugordan on 05/02/2012 01:42 pm
Falcon gets a lot of attention, but this flight will hopefully be much more of a Dragon show.

Hopefully.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rcoppola on 05/02/2012 02:08 pm
Well, the good news is, everyday they are learning, learning, learning.

Invaluable key learnings for not only COTS but CCDev as well. Learnings that only a handful of nations have, let alone a small Space company.

Knowing this, I am more then happy to give them another month to get it right.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/02/2012 03:08 pm
Per L2, Eastern Range received cancellation notice for the May 7 date. No new date requested at this time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Diagoras on 05/02/2012 03:19 pm
Good for me: I had an exam on the 7th.  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/02/2012 03:23 pm
Good for me: I had an exam on the 7th.  ;)

Sources refuse to confirm, nor deny, that's the reason for the slip! ;)

On a serious note, SpaceX are the ones who'll release any official slip presser, though they are on the West Coast, so we need to be patient. They may also wait until they have a new date slot, we'll see.

PS I'll be AWOL from about 1pm Eastern to 5pm Eastern today, so if they do release a presser, someone post it into the thread, thanks!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: sweet-d on 05/02/2012 03:46 pm
hmm kinda sucks it's most likely gonna slip now again. i guess that's rocketry well "software" now i guess. I wonder what the exact problem is though?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mapperuo on 05/02/2012 03:46 pm
I wonder if the fact no new date has been booked could be seen as bad news, aka, a longer than say a week slip?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 05/02/2012 03:53 pm
hmm kinda sucks it's most likely gonna slip now again. i guess that's rocketry well "software" now i guess. I wonder what the exact problem is though?

Might not be a problem at all.  My guess is that they think the software needs more testing.  We never got the word that software testing was complete.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Airlock on 05/02/2012 05:06 pm
The NASA website seems to really INSIST that May 7th is still the launch date... I agree that SpaceX is probably wanting to determine a new launch date before they announce the delay.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/02/2012 05:22 pm
SpaceX:

Update on SpaceX COTS 2 Launch

 At this time, a May 7th launch appears unlikely.  SpaceX is continuing to work through the software assurance process with NASA.  We will issue a statement as soon as a new launch target is set.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 05/02/2012 05:35 pm
In my personal opinion - and nothing more - I reckon they'll end up slipping past the Soyuz TMA-04M launch on the 15th.

If they launched on the 10th, they'd berth on the 13th, which leaves only two days of margin before Dragon and Soyuz would be "on top of each other" - and having a low margin of "troubleshooting days" is a bad move for a test flight. Plus, if there was a scrub on the 10th, then they would definitely end up overlapping.

So, if someone were to ask me to put my money on a launch date, I'd say NET 18th May, after the Soyuz TMA-04M docking on the 17th. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: butters on 05/02/2012 05:51 pm
Software is tricky. This isn't rocket science. You can't just send some guy into the interstage with a pair of tin snips. It's more complicated than that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: marsman2020 on 05/02/2012 06:01 pm
If this software is so darn tricky that NASA keeps holding them up on it....

Maybe it's important enough that C2 and C3 should have stayed as separate flights, so that ~1.5-2x as much data could be gathered about the operation of the software?

That's what the taxpayers are paying for, after all.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 05/02/2012 06:02 pm
While we are waiting for launch, another picture.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 05/02/2012 06:36 pm
If this software is so darn tricky that NASA keeps holding them up on it....

Maybe it's important enough that C2 and C3 should have stayed as separate flights, so that ~1.5-2x as much data could be gathered about the operation of the software? ...
It's software, so the analysis can be done on the ground. A test launch tests the hardware. It'd be dumb to do a really expensive hardware test when what you really want is careful analysis of the software.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/02/2012 06:46 pm
If it is software review, I doubt we will see a launch before June. Being a software issue, we should have a Poll on who fly's first, Antares or SpaceX.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 05/02/2012 06:49 pm
If it is software review, I doubt we will see a launch before June. Being a software issue, we should have a Poll on who fly's first, Antares or SpaceX.
Why so long? It's not necessarily a big official review. If you're not privy to why they're doing the software testing, I don't see how you could possibly know it'd take that long.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/02/2012 07:44 pm
If it is software review, I doubt we will see a launch before June. Being a software issue, we should have a Poll on who fly's first, Antares or SpaceX.
Why so long? It's not necessarily a big official review. If you're not privy to why they're doing the software testing, I don't see how you could possibly know it'd take that long.
If it is a review that finds something and requires changes you have to go through an entire QC cycle on the subsystem. Sorry, but not buying before June. Of course we should move it over to the number of 2012 flights Poll. I'm down grading from 2 with a third on the pad to 1 with 2 on the pad and a third backed up in a hanger.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 05/02/2012 07:58 pm
A new NET posted in L2.  Not as bad as I was thinking.  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Robotbeat on 05/02/2012 08:02 pm
If it is software review, I doubt we will see a launch before June. Being a software issue, we should have a Poll on who fly's first, Antares or SpaceX.
Why so long? It's not necessarily a big official review. If you're not privy to why they're doing the software testing, I don't see how you could possibly know it'd take that long.
If it is a review that finds something and requires changes you have to go through an entire QC cycle on the subsystem. Sorry, but not buying before June. Of course we should move it over to the number of 2012 flights Poll. I'm down grading from 2 with a third on the pad to 1 with 2 on the pad and a third backed up in a hanger.
Look, it's pretty rare in this business to be wrong about picking a little later date for launch. But it still doesn't justify your saying with any certainty that it'd be June when you don't give any real reason for why it'd be that late. And I see no indication that they'd have to redo the ENTIRE QC cycle. Granted, they may slip for other reasons.

BTW, time for me to re-up L2 subscription... Chris, you didn't remind me! ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: stockman on 05/02/2012 08:12 pm
A new NET posted in L2.  Not as bad as I was thinking.  ;D

don't get too excited just yet.. thats a NET date and happens to be the next reserved day for SpaceX anyway... its not quite official but more of a placeholder for now as far as I read it...

BUT - I hope it becomes real...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: spacetraveler on 05/02/2012 08:14 pm
If it is software review, I doubt we will see a launch before June. Being a software issue, we should have a Poll on who fly's first, Antares or SpaceX.
Why so long? It's not necessarily a big official review. If you're not privy to why they're doing the software testing, I don't see how you could possibly know it'd take that long.
If it is a review that finds something and requires changes you have to go through an entire QC cycle on the subsystem. Sorry, but not buying before June. Of course we should move it over to the number of 2012 flights Poll. I'm down grading from 2 with a third on the pad to 1 with 2 on the pad and a third backed up in a hanger.

If changes are needed, yes I would agree. Because you would need to do regression testing and requalify the existing components. However there has been no indication that changes were needed yet. All that has been announced so far is that the delays were occurring to finish their current test plan.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: tigerade on 05/02/2012 08:17 pm
A new NET posted in L2.  Not as bad as I was thinking.  ;D

don't get too excited just yet.. thats a NET date and happens to be the next reserved day for SpaceX anyway... its not quite official but more of a placeholder for now as far as I read it...

BUT - I hope it becomes real...

Same.  I'll be out of town on the 19th so if it launches then I will likely only see the video few days after.  I should be able to still see the berthing, though.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rcoppola on 05/02/2012 08:36 pm
It's all good by me. I'm on a waiting list for a tour and viewing for this launch. If they keep changing it, maybe a place will open up for me...one can hope...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 05/02/2012 08:43 pm
Software is tricky. This isn't rocket science. You can't just send some guy into the interstage with a pair of tin snips. It's more complicated than that.

Okay, now THAT is comedy gold folks.  :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Halidon on 05/03/2012 12:03 am
A new NET posted in L2.  Not as bad as I was thinking.  ;D
So, its before 2020.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: savuporo on 05/03/2012 05:22 am
My bet : they are not going to launch before i'm back from vacation and have internet access again :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: watermod on 05/03/2012 06:24 am
I've been in the software biz since the 70's and never seen a perfect anything in software.  Does that mean that nothing made by SpaceX will ever be permitted to launch because it can't be guaranteed perfect?    (Not a fan boy but just suspicious whenever anybody demands perfect software. Made doubly so by experience in cellular when poor quality systems trumped 5-9s when 5-9 infrastructure sold at 20x the cost of one nine....)
   
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 05/03/2012 07:56 am
I've been in the software biz since the 70's and never seen a perfect anything in software.  Does that mean that nothing made by SpaceX will ever be permitted to launch because it can't be guaranteed perfect?

No.

Quote
(Not a fan boy but just suspicious whenever anybody demands perfect software. Made doubly so by experience in cellular when poor quality systems trumped 5-9s when 5-9 infrastructure sold at 20x the cost of one nine....)

Flawed analogy. Cell phones don't kill people when the software fails. (Dragon may be unmanned, but it's flying an approach to a manned international space station that cost over $50B to build). No one expects perfect software, but mission-critical software is held to higher standards and undergoes more rigorous testing. The space shuttle software was considered the "gold standard" in this category:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html

No one expects SpaceX (or any other commercial space company) to ever reach that level again, but there are still better analogies than cell phones:
Aircraft flight software
Air traffic control software
Nuclear powerplant control software

All of these must be more-or-less bug-free in normal operation, or people die.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: robertross on 05/03/2012 11:15 am
Okay guys, we're slipping again. No need for another 'software' debate
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/03/2012 02:49 pm
Moved a couple of posts into the General Discussion thread.

I think when we get a new launch date we might need a new thread for pre-launch updates. Amazing amount of interest in this mission, with mega long threads and such! It's like shuttle days (huzzah!)

It's currently NET May 10, by nature, but that's not yet set until they have their next meetings (tonight and/or tomorrow I'm told). I'll give it a new article when they do.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Thunderbird5 on 05/03/2012 06:54 pm
Moved a couple of posts into the General Discussion thread.

I think when we get a new launch date we might need a new thread for pre-launch updates. Amazing amount of interest in this mission, with mega long threads and such! It's like shuttle days (huzzah!)

It's currently NET May 10, by nature, but that's not yet set until they have their next meetings (tonight and/or tomorrow I'm told). I'll give it a new article when they do.

Excellent coverage Chris, thanks.

You know, the suspicious types among us might begin to wonder if you've been secretly paying-off those SpaceX folks to deliberately delay the launch date to help push up the L2 subscriptions!  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: edfishel on 05/04/2012 03:18 pm
Thunderbird has let the cat out of the bag!  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: sojourner on 05/04/2012 04:50 pm
Still no confirmed date?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: robertross on 05/04/2012 04:58 pm
Still no confirmed date?

Chris will no doubt post it if it shows up on L2 (and it hasn't yet)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Garrett on 05/04/2012 05:09 pm
Still no confirmed date?

Chris will no doubt post it if it shows up on L2 (and it hasn't yet)

Jeff Foust mentioned this on Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/jeff_foust/status/198206248460632064):
Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
A NASA manifest now lists the SpaceX COTS launch as "TBD", placed after the 5/15 Soyuz launch and a 5/17 H-2A launch: bit.ly/IGNBsq (http://bit.ly/IGNBsq)

Long version of link to NASA manifest: http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/launches.php
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Wyvern on 05/04/2012 07:00 pm
After the 17th?  That doesn't sound so bad after all the flight was just pushed back from the 30th to the 7th, that's a little more than a week and this new date sounds about the same.  I'm not saying that is the new date but if it's true then it does sound like plenty of time to finally fix their software issues.

I guess whoever said the 19th was right (was that you Peter?) Although I do admit to perfering launch on the 10th. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/04/2012 08:02 pm
Moved a couple of posts into the General Discussion thread.

I think when we get a new launch date we might need a new thread for pre-launch updates. Amazing amount of interest in this mission, with mega long threads and such! It's like shuttle days (huzzah!)

It's currently NET May 10, by nature, but that's not yet set until they have their next meetings (tonight and/or tomorrow I'm told). I'll give it a new article when they do.

Excellent coverage Chris, thanks.

You know, the suspicious types among us might begin to wonder if you've been secretly paying-off those SpaceX folks to deliberately delay the launch date to help push up the L2 subscriptions!  ;D

Heh. Yeah, cause Elon needs the money, so I keep slipping him 20 bucks ;)

Still no confirmed date?

Chris will no doubt post it if it shows up on L2 (and it hasn't yet)

Yeah. Potential update later today per the NASA side talking on L2, but by no means certain. I think we're talking May 19 or later - (after Soyuz) at this stage, but don't take that to the bank.

A good amount to write up as we've looked into the June windows and such. So if they do update the launch date, I'll write an article....I might write one tonight regardless if I get time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rds100 on 05/04/2012 08:12 pm
I was wondering, how log can the Dragon stay in orbit flying autonomously?
Can't they just launch it when they are ready to launch and then just wait until the traffic around ISS clears and allows them to continue with the proximity ops?
 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 05/04/2012 08:18 pm
Here the picture of Dragon and Falcon 9 I posted earlier but here it is in extreme close up. You can see every little detail!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 05/04/2012 08:27 pm
Jeff Foust mentioned this on Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/jeff_foust/status/198206248460632064):
Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
A NASA manifest now lists the SpaceX COTS launch as "TBD", placed after the 5/15 Soyuz launch and a 5/17 H-2A launch: bit.ly/IGNBsq (http://bit.ly/IGNBsq)

Long version of link to NASA manifest: http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/launches.php
FYI, there's a circular reference there -- look at their Change Log page:
http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/change_log.php

The source for the TBD points here:
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/highlights/schedule.html

They are sourcing media reports for other changes, so I wouldn't read too much into this.  Not necessarily a primary source.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Comga on 05/04/2012 09:03 pm
Aerospace America says "There is a restrictive period of high solar beta angles during late May and early June."   How would beta angle impact the ISS or COTS-2+ operations?

anik's very detailed ISS schedule (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=61.msg893385#msg893385) shows no activity between May 17 and July 1 other than COTS-2+.  Is that time really available for SpaceX or are there some other restrictions like beta angle? 

edited to fix wording
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 05/04/2012 09:15 pm
Aerospace America says "There is a restrictive period of high solar beta angles during late May and early June."   How would beta angle impact the ISS or COTS-2+ operations?

anik's very detailed ISS schedule (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=61.msg893385#msg893385) shows no activity between May 17 and July 1 other than COTS-2+.  Is that time really available for SpaceX or are there some other restrictions like beta angle? 

edited to fix wording

Yes, the high beta angle period would be prevent C2+ from occurring due to Dragon solar array power generation concerns. With beta angle cutouts and range conflicts, June is a fairly tight months in terms of available launch windows.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 05/04/2012 09:25 pm
I was wondering, how log can the Dragon stay in orbit flying autonomously?
Can't they just launch it when they are ready to launch and then just wait until the traffic around ISS clears and allows them to continue with the proximity ops?
 

Welcome to the forum.

Better to stretch that particular envelope post-unberthing, methinks. The list of C2/C3 rendezvous objectives is long enough without adding a "long-duration" test on top.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: gladiator1332 on 05/04/2012 09:48 pm
Here the picture of Dragon and Falcon 9 I posted earlier but here it is in extreme close up. You can see every little detail!

Right down to individual nuts and bolts! Nice shot!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChefPat on 05/04/2012 09:57 pm
I was wondering, how log can the Dragon stay in orbit flying autonomously?
Can't they just launch it when they are ready to launch and then just wait until the traffic around ISS clears and allows them to continue with the proximity ops?
Welcome to the forum. :D
IIUC, Station Keeping with another object, like the ISS, requires fuel, & on this mission fuel is at a premium already.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/04/2012 10:00 pm
May 19 is the new NET with May 22 as the second opportunity
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: starsilk on 05/04/2012 10:07 pm
May 19 is the new NET with May 22 as the second opportunity

any times to go with those? day or night launch?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: ChrisC on 05/04/2012 10:12 pm
I calculate around 4:30am liftoff time.

It's a little surprising that they'd do a night launch, but the Falcon 9 rocket isn't really the interesting part of this mission so they don't really really need the imagery.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/04/2012 10:16 pm
SpaceX confirm (that was fast!):

Update on SpaceX COTS 2 Launch

SpaceX and NASA are nearing completion of the software assurance process, and SpaceX is submitting a request to the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station for a May 19th launch target with a backup on May 22nd. 

Thus far, no issues have been uncovered during this process, but with a mission of this complexity we want to be extremely diligent.

We will send out updated information on launch activities in the coming days.

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: psloss on 05/04/2012 10:22 pm
May 19 is the new NET with May 22 as the second opportunity

any times to go with those? day or night launch?
PAO has updated their pages:
http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/cargo/spacex_index.html

4:55 am Eastern T-0 for the 19th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/04/2012 10:30 pm
Mr ISS himself, Pete Harding, is going to write up the article for this new NET for Saturday morning (GMT) publication.

He'll do a far better job on this than I, especially considering the Beta Angles and VV schedules and such. We'll start the new launch day update thread with his article when it goes on.

Continue in this one for now and I'll post a redirect when we start the new one.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: SpacexULA on 05/04/2012 10:44 pm
If they do a 0430 launch what will be the closest public viewing location? 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 05/04/2012 10:51 pm
4:55 is an hour and 34 minutes before sunrise that morning, so how long after liftoff and at what altitude will it cross into sunlight?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Comga on 05/04/2012 11:08 pm
4:55 is an hour and 34 minutes before sunrise that morning, so how long after liftoff and at what altitude will it cross into sunlight?

In the two dimensonal, spherical Earth approximation, 1 hr 34 min before sunrise the sunlight is 577 km overhead and the terminator is 2616 km away.

Assuming that the insertion altitude long before the second stage circularizes the orbit is about 100 km, the Dragon and second stage will be far away before it is sunlit, possibly below the horizon.

My spherical cow won't see it from Florida.  :-)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 05/04/2012 11:55 pm
4:55 is an hour and 34 minutes before sunrise that morning, so how long after liftoff and at what altitude will it cross into sunlight?

In the two dimensonal, spherical Earth approximation, 1 hr 34 min before sunrise the sunlight is 577 km overhead and the terminator is 2616 km away.

Assuming that the insertion altitude long before the second stage circularizes the orbit is about 100 km, the Dragon and second stage will be far away before it is sunlit, possibly below the horizon.

My spherical cow won't see it from Florida.  :-)

Now you made me go and do stuff. 

That placemark is from Flight 1, this flight should be more to the North. I'm still holding out hope.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/05/2012 12:17 am
NASA ISSUES STATEMENT ON NEW SPACEX LAUNCH DATE

WASHINGTON -- In response to today's SpaceX announcement finalizing a
new target date for the launch of its Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon
spacecraft, NASA issued the following statement from William
Gerstenmaier, associate administrator for Human Exploration and
Operations at the agency's Headquarters in Washington:

"After additional reviews and discussions between the SpaceX and NASA
teams, we are in a position to proceed toward this important launch.
The teamwork provided by these teams is phenomenal. There are a few
remaining open items but we are ready to support SpaceX for its new
launch date of May 19."

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Antares on 05/05/2012 12:45 am

The file name on your jpeg (along with the higher inclination) makes me wonder if the transition might be visible from Ft. McHenry.  That would be a heckuva shot.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 05/05/2012 12:53 am
I was wondering, how log can the Dragon stay in orbit flying autonomously?
Can't they just launch it when they are ready to launch and then just wait until the traffic around ISS clears and allows them to continue with the proximity ops?
Welcome to the forum. :D
IIUC, Station Keeping with another object, like the ISS, requires fuel, & on this mission fuel is at a premium already.

Prox ops stationkeeping requires lots of fuel. At longer distances, not so much.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: corrodedNut on 05/05/2012 01:06 am
@elonmusk
Almost done reviewing Dragon code with @NASA. Looks good so far. Target launch date is May 19, right after Soyuz docks.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Mapperuo on 05/05/2012 01:34 am
NASA updated their TV coverage for the 19th launch date:

Quote
May 18, Friday
1 p.m. - SpaceX/Falcon 9 Dragon Pre-Launch Briefing - KSC (All Channels)

May 19, Saturday
3:30 a.m. - SpaceX/Falcon 9 Dragon Launch Coverage Begins (Launch scheduled at 4:55 a.m. EDT) - KSC (All Channels)
7:30 a.m. - SpaceX/Falcon 9 Dragon Post-Launch News Conference - KSC (All Channels)

May 21, Monday
2:30 a.m. - SpaceX/Dragon Fly-Under of the ISS Coverage - JSC (All Channels)
10 a.m. - SpaceX/Dragon Mission Status Briefing - JSC (All Channels)

May 22, Tuesday
2 a.m. - SpaceX/Dragon ISS Grapple and Berthing Coverage - JSC (All Channels)
1 p.m. - SpaceX/Dragon Mission Status Briefing (Time subject to change) - JSC (All Channels)

May 23, Wednesday
7:30 a.m. - SpaceX/Dragon Hatch Opening Coverage - JSC (All Channels)
TBD - ISS Expedition 31 Post-SpaceX/Dragon Hatch Opening Crew News Conference - JSC (All Channels)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rickl on 05/05/2012 03:29 am
Looks like I may be facing some sleep deprivation if that schedule holds.

It's just as well.  My boss tends to complain when I try to watch this stuff during work hours.   ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: manboy on 05/05/2012 04:02 am
Here's hoping the new launch date sticks.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mr. mark on 05/05/2012 04:05 am
Oh man! Pre launch for me is 12:30am and launch is at 1:55am. I'll be up until at least 3am and I have to get up for work at 7 well it's time for a few rock star drinks.  :-\

So let me get this right. The launch is at 4:55 eastern time so, technically, it's a night launch but according to the flight plan it could reach daylight by the time of MECO or shortly after.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Halidon on 05/05/2012 04:35 am
Could be worse.

Not to be fatalistic, but what's the next available date in the event of a scrub?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: rds100 on 05/05/2012 05:21 am
I was wondering, how log can the Dragon stay in orbit flying autonomously?
Can't they just launch it when they are ready to launch and then just wait until the traffic around ISS clears and allows them to continue with the proximity ops?
Welcome to the forum. :D
IIUC, Station Keeping with another object, like the ISS, requires fuel, & on this mission fuel is at a premium already.

I meant maybe launch to an orbit 10-15km higher (or lower) than the orbit of the ISS, perform what ever checks they have to perform, then just let it float there until the time comes to adjust the orbit and continue with the proximity ops. Would this require much fuel?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Geron on 05/05/2012 05:50 am
NASA ISSUES STATEMENT ON NEW SPACEX LAUNCH DATE

WASHINGTON -- In response to today's SpaceX announcement finalizing a
new target date for the launch of its Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon
spacecraft, NASA issued the following statement from William
Gerstenmaier, associate administrator for Human Exploration and
Operations at the agency's Headquarters in Washington:

"After additional reviews and discussions between the SpaceX and NASA
teams, we are in a position to proceed toward this important launch.
The teamwork provided by these teams is phenomenal. There are a few
remaining open items but we are ready to support SpaceX for its new
launch date of May 19."



I have a really solid feeling about this launch date. For one, there have been enough delays at this point that this might actually be the real launch date. I am in Phoenix. My birthday is May 19th. Do you think it is reasonable for me to fly to Florida for the 19th? What are the odds of it being cancelled due to weather? The ticket is like $500. If I devide the cost of the ticket by the expected value of the launch, that should give me the real price of the ticket, so I can ask my wife if I can go...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 05/05/2012 05:56 am
I was wondering, how log can the Dragon stay in orbit flying autonomously?
Can't they just launch it when they are ready to launch and then just wait until the traffic around ISS clears and allows them to continue with the proximity ops?
Welcome to the forum. :D
IIUC, Station Keeping with another object, like the ISS, requires fuel, & on this mission fuel is at a premium already.

I meant maybe launch to an orbit 10-15km higher (or lower) than the orbit of the ISS, perform what ever checks they have to perform, then just let it float there until the time comes to adjust the orbit and continue with the proximity ops. Would this require much fuel?

Not much, but subsequent rendezvous opportunities from that orbit would be fairly infrequent. You could *make* them frequent... at considerable fuel cost. And you're pushing the envelope on flight duration of a spacecraft that has a grand total of two orbits experience. Not wise. NOT wise. Better to wait on the ground than in orbit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Jorge on 05/05/2012 05:57 am
Could be worse.

Not to be fatalistic, but what's the next available date in the event of a scrub?

Once every 3 days, barring range conflicts. Think they have the 22nd reserved as a backup.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: d3jf on 05/05/2012 08:09 am
The fact that they will be launching after the Soyuz docks makes me wonder whether Joe Acaba will be somehow involved in capture and berthing ops.

I know that originally Andre was supposed to be a backup while Dan and Don performed the capture. Will Joe now be a backup? Does he need OBT when he's just finished training on the ground?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Thunderbird5 on 05/05/2012 11:30 am
Oh man! Pre launch for me is 12:30am and launch is at 1:55am. I'll be up until at least 3am and I have to get up for work at 7 well it's time for a few rock star drinks.  :-\

So let me get this right. The launch is at 4:55 eastern time so, technically, it's a night launch but according to the flight plan it could reach daylight by the time of MECO or shortly after.

9.55am British Summer Time on a Saturday morning, what could be more perfect?  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Garrett on 05/05/2012 01:41 pm
9.55am British Summer Time on a Saturday morning, what could be more perfect?  ;D
10:55am for me, gives me time to have a lie in and my breakfast  8)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Space Pete on 05/05/2012 01:54 pm
9.55am British Summer Time on a Saturday morning, what could be more perfect?  ;D

I was thinking the same things myself. Goodbye lie-in, but HELLO Dragon on-orbit ops, at long last! :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: mduncan36 on 05/05/2012 02:21 pm
I have a really solid feeling about this launch date. For one, there have been enough delays at this point that this might actually be the real launch date. I am in Phoenix. My birthday is May 19th. Do you think it is reasonable for me to fly to Florida for the 19th? What are the odds of it being cancelled due to weather? The ticket is like $500. If I devide the cost of the ticket by the expected value of the launch, that should give me the real price of the ticket, so I can ask my wife if I can go...

The odds of this launch going at this time are somewhere between a million to one and fifty-fifty. You will just have to go for it and forget the odds. I could fly there for free and have a free rental car waiting but I'm going to be watching it on tv.

Having said all that I gambled on three shuttle launches in the past and got lucky on all three. Being there with thousands of like minded fans is a pretty cool experience. Saying good bye to a thousand dollars and coming home to unhappy wife is not. Just to confuse things further, if you are young and have no kids then maybe this is the time. Once you get on up in life then finding time or money to do anything for yourself becomes virtually impossible. Good luck.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: edfishel on 05/05/2012 02:56 pm
Even if it gets postponed, there is so much to see at the Cape. It is a worthwhile trip. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/05/2012 03:08 pm
This is brilliant from Pete Harding.

ISS schedule slips Dragon launch to May 19 – future manifest outlook:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/05/iss-schedule-dragon-launch-19-may-future-manifest-outlook/

Will use to set up the latest threads shortly.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9/Dragon COTS Demo (C2+) PRE LAUNCH UPDATES
Post by: Chris Bergin on 05/05/2012 03:22 pm
Everyone on to thread 2 now:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=28808.0