Author Topic: ML-2 Updates and Discussion  (Read 70009 times)

Online Chris Bergin

ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« on: 11/04/2021 07:49 pm »
[FST edit: ML-1 thread is here]

ML-1 will only be used on three flights. ML-2 required for Block 1B, but that fourth mission won't be for another five years so they have time, as much as ML-2 is on hold as they've ran out of cash.

https://twitter.com/ChrisG_NSF/status/1456350883336396804
« Last Edit: 07/07/2023 05:48 am by FutureSpaceTourist »
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Offline D.L Parker

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 11/05/2021 02:33 pm »
So spacex buids an entire launch tower and factory in less than a year and it takes years for NASA to build a launch tower, but they run out of funding before even finishing the thing. Wow.

Offline woods170

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 11/05/2021 03:38 pm »
So spacex buids an entire launch tower and factory in less than a year and it takes years for NASA to build a launch tower, but they run out of funding before even finishing the thing. Wow.

That's the difference between private funding and public funding. The former is a continuous stream of funding. The latter depends on the appropriations process in US Congress, which is an annual effort, further hampered in recent years by CRs due to the major US political parties not agreeing on quite a few things.

Offline D.L Parker

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 11/05/2021 03:49 pm »
Seems like they should get spacex to wack a launch platform out for them, shouldn't take them more than a few months judging by the speed they built their own.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 11/05/2021 03:55 pm »
Seems like they should get spacex to wack a launch platform out for them, shouldn't take them more than a few months judging by the speed they built their own.

That's not how NASA works. If SpaceX wanted to build the SLS launch tower, then they needed to submit a bid on it when the contract was originally open for bids.

*edit to add*

Also, SpaceX is not the end-all be-all of anything space launch related. Nor should it be.
« Last Edit: 11/05/2021 03:57 pm by whitelancer64 »
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 11/05/2021 04:07 pm »
Seems like they should get spacex to wack a launch platform out for them, shouldn't take them more than a few months judging by the speed they built their own.

That's not how NASA works. If SpaceX wanted to build the SLS launch tower, then they needed to submit a bid on it when the contract was originally open for bids.
That's also not how SpaceX works. Unless a contract contributes to the development of Starship, I don't think they are interested. If NASA asked for a launch tower that can handle Starship and also handle other systems, SpaceX might bid. I speculate that SpaceX will continue to bid  for CRS and CCP and also for F9 and FH launches, because they have the products and infrastructure in place and they are profitable, but SpaceX will try to move as much as that business to Starship as soon as they can. That will probably but not certainly require a land-based tower on the Florida space coast, but SpaceX may prefer to use "mass-produced" sea-based platforms.

Offline Khadgars

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 11/07/2021 02:06 pm »
SpaceX has absolutely nothing to do with ML-2, why people insist on inserting into the conversation is beyond me  ::)
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Redclaws

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 11/07/2021 02:20 pm »
SpaceX has absolutely nothing to do with ML-2, why people insist on inserting into the conversation is beyond me  ::)

Probably frustration at the utterly shambolic and spectacularly wasteful way the mobile launcher program has been run.  If you care at all about money being spent to useful ends in sane ways and in a timely manner, the ML program is incredibly frustrating and the contrast is obvious.

Offline Avatar2Go

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 11/07/2021 03:09 pm »
SpaceX has absolutely nothing to do with ML-2, why people insist on inserting into the conversation is beyond me  ::)

Probably frustration at the utterly shambolic and spectacularly wasteful way the mobile launcher program has been run.  If you care at all about money being spent to useful ends in sane ways and in a timely manner, the ML program is incredibly frustrating and the contrast is obvious.

This is a justification of the slam against SLS & components.  But I think Khadgar's point was, why is the slam necessary in the first place?   And why does it need to be inserted in every SLS topic or thread?

SpaceX has a vast number of threads on this site.  The superiority of their products, or the contrast between Starship and SLS, could be expounded there, without limit or complaint from the SLS advocates. 

I don't post in those threads, not because I agree or disagree, but because they are for SpaceX advocates.  They don't need me in there explaining the faults I perceive in Starship, or why I believe it shouldn't exist.  Which by the way, I absolutely do believe it should exist, and am all for other platforms being developed.  But there is not a compelling need for me to insist on any one option over another.


Offline Khadgars

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 11/07/2021 05:47 pm »
SpaceX has absolutely nothing to do with ML-2, why people insist on inserting into the conversation is beyond me  ::)

Probably frustration at the utterly shambolic and spectacularly wasteful way the mobile launcher program has been run.  If you care at all about money being spent to useful ends in sane ways and in a timely manner, the ML program is incredibly frustrating and the contrast is obvious.

Well, if you actually cared about money being spent on useful ends in a sane way, anything NASA spends money on would not even be in your top 10!

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Conexion Espacial

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Offline D.L Parker

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 01/28/2022 04:24 pm »
SpaceX has absolutely nothing to do with ML-2, why people insist on inserting into the conversation is beyond me  ::)

Probably frustration at the utterly shambolic and spectacularly wasteful way the mobile launcher program has been run.  If you care at all about money being spent to useful ends in sane ways and in a timely manner, the ML program is incredibly frustrating and the contrast is obvious.

Well, if you actually cared about money being spent on useful ends in a sane way, anything NASA spends money on would not even be in your top 10!

This a good attitude to have if you want to ignore waste with in NASA.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 01/28/2022 05:03 pm »
SpaceX has absolutely nothing to do with ML-2, why people insist on inserting into the conversation is beyond me  ::)

Probably frustration at the utterly shambolic and spectacularly wasteful way the mobile launcher program has been run.  If you care at all about money being spent to useful ends in sane ways and in a timely manner, the ML program is incredibly frustrating and the contrast is obvious.

Well, if you actually cared about money being spent on useful ends in a sane way, anything NASA spends money on would not even be in your top 10!

This a good attitude to have if you want to ignore waste with in NASA.
This thread is solely about ML-2. There are other more appropriate threads in the Space Policy section to discuss your topic.

Offline Conexion Espacial

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Online VSECOTSPE

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 01/28/2022 06:17 pm »
Eric Berger has written in Arstechnica a more complete update on the development of the ML-2.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/01/nasas-second-sls-launch-tower-is-also-late-and-over-budget/

From that article:

Quote
NASA has issued a "second letter of concern" to Bechtel requesting an assessment of project risks and impediments, plus a corrective action plan, as well as an identification of opportunities to reduce costs and mitigate schedule disruptions while improving efficiency.

This is a cost-plus contract.  Doesn’t NASA have a project manager and civil servant team overseeing it?  Why don’t they know the risks and impediments?  Why don’t they have a corrective action plan?  Why haven’t they taken action to reduce costs and mitigate schedule before ML-2 got into such bad shape?

These questions are rhetorical, of course.  But there’s no point in a cost-plus contract if the agency isn’t going to actively manage it.  Otherwise, the contractor will rob the agency blind.  Sending letters to Bechtel is useless unless the PM and some of his team on ML-2 are removed to an overseas tracking station and replaced with empowered, capable, conscientious, and conscious managers.

The private sector builds structures like this every day without such gross delays and overruns.  If the agency can’t get a lousy launch tower built on something resembling budget and schedule — especially after the lessons learned on ML-1 — it has no business building highly energetic and much more complex launch vehicles.
« Last Edit: 01/28/2022 06:18 pm by VSECOTSPE »

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 01/28/2022 08:21 pm »
...The private sector builds structures like this every day without such gross delays and overruns.  If the agency can’t get a lousy launch tower built on something resembling budget and schedule — especially after the lessons learned on ML-1 — it has no business building highly energetic and much more complex launch vehicles.

I just wanted to point the specific paragraph out because it deserves attention.

ML-2 is NOT something new!!!

Take ML-1 and stretch it. What is the complication here? How is it that this program could be in such bad shape within Bechtel, one of the premier global engineering companies?

And why is this a Cost Plus contract? What were the undefined requirements that lead NASA to think that a Firm Fixed Price contract could not work?

Geez  >:(
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Jim

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 01/28/2022 08:29 pm »

Well, if you actually cared about money being spent on useful ends in a sane way, anything NASA spends money on would not even be in your top 10!


just stop with the idiocy

Offline Conexion Espacial

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 01/28/2022 08:40 pm »

What disappoints me most about all this is that it happened with ML-1 at the time and now with ML-2 when it probably could have been avoided with the ML-1 experience.

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Offline whitelancer64

Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 01/28/2022 09:12 pm »
... and this is why (among many other reasons) the ASAP is recommending NASA take a good hard look at its contracting procedures.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
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Offline Vahe231991

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 03/19/2023 07:42 pm »
I found a recent article regarding the ML-1 that devotes a few paragraphs to the latest regarding the ML-2 mobile launch platform:
https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/12/09/repairs-and-upgrades-await-sls-mobile-launcher-before-crewed-lunar-mission/
« Last Edit: 03/19/2023 09:55 pm by Vahe231991 »

Offline TheRadicalModerate

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #20 on: 03/19/2023 08:33 pm »
Found this update regarding the ML-2 mobile launch platform:
https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/12/09/repairs-and-upgrades-await-sls-mobile-launcher-before-crewed-lunar-mission/

Note that the headline of this piece refers to ML-1.  There's ML-2 stuff at the bottom, though.

Offline Vahe231991

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #21 on: 04/30/2023 12:53 am »
Quote
Sidus Space started 2023 with the announcement of a new contract from Bechtel Corporation to manufacture cables for the NASA Mobile Launcher 2 project. Sidus announced the contract award, Jan. 3. Mobile Launcher 2 (ML2) is the ground platform structure that will launch Space Launch System (SLS) Block 1B and Block 2 configurations to the Moon, allowing the agency to send astronauts and heavy cargo to the lunar surface as part of NASA’s Artemis program. ML2 is the primary interface between the ground launch control system and the SLS rocket and Orion spacecraft flight hardware.

Sidus was previously awarded a contract to fabricate custom cables and populate unique electronics cabinets supporting the launch control subsystem and ground special power subsystems.

https://www.satellitetoday.com/government-military/2023/01/03/sidus-space-logs-a-subcontract-to-support-the-sls-mobile-launcher-2/ [From January 3, 2023]


Offline jadebenn

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #22 on: 05/11/2023 06:46 am »
Dovetails with what I've heard about the fabrication work spinning back up. Outside politics may have something to say about that if the upcoming appropriations process is going to be as much of a logjam as we should all expect it to be...

Offline jacqmans

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Jacques :-)

Offline Vahe231991

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Offline Vahe231991

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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #26 on: 07/13/2023 03:26 pm »
twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1679500542245064705

Quote
Wild, man. House budget legislation for 2024 provides $501 million for that year, alone, to fund development of the second mobile launch platform for the SLS rocket.

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/AP/AP19/20230714/116251/BILLS-118--AP--CJS-FY24CJSSubcommitteeMark.pdf

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1679504459838136321

Quote
The mobile launcher was originally supposed to cost $383 million. If this funding goes through it will push the money allocated to date above $1 billion, and construction has yet to really begin. Insane, really.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #27 on: 08/15/2023 08:51 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasagroundsys/status/1691542392040525825

Quote
📹 Timelapse: Watch from the mobile launcher 2 parksite as teams from @Bechtel begin to set in place the first 'super assembly' onto the temporary mount mechanism. The Vehicle Assembly Building at @NASAKennedy, where the @NASA_SLS rocket will be assembled, can be seen in back.

Teams will assemble the first pair of 43 trusses and girders that make up the base of the mobile launcher 2, which will support future @NASAArtemis missions starting with #Artemis IV.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #28 on: 08/15/2023 09:42 pm »
twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1679500542245064705

Quote
Wild, man. House budget legislation for 2024 provides $501 million for that year, alone, to fund development of the second mobile launch platform for the SLS rocket.

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/AP/AP19/20230714/116251/BILLS-118--AP--CJS-FY24CJSSubcommitteeMark.pdf

*yeet tweet*

Quote
The mobile launcher was originally supposed to cost $383 million. If this funding goes through it will push the money allocated to date above $1 billion, and construction has yet to really begin. Insane, really.

It's also weird because Bechtel has a long history of bringing complex projects to completion close to on time and on budget, with some notable exceptions.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 08/16/2023 01:55 am by yg1968 »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #30 on: 09/05/2023 02:01 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1699048830719656095

Quote
Checking in on NASA's huge Mobile Launchers for SLS, NSF's Nathan Barker (@NASA_Nerd) spoke with David Sumner, Senior Project Manager for NASA’s Exploration Ground Systems (EGS).

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2023/09/nasa-ml-1-artemis-ii-ml-2-construction/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #31 on: 09/12/2023 05:47 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1701648719609794959

Quote
Tug and barge have arrived at KSC to unload the second delivery of steel trusses for SLS Mobile Launcher 2 (ML-2).

ML-1 in the background at 39B for testing ahead of Artemis-2.

nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline cplchanb

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #32 on: 09/13/2023 03:46 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1701648719609794959

Quote
Tug and barge have arrived at KSC to unload the second delivery of steel trusses for SLS Mobile Launcher 2 (ML-2).

ML-1 in the background at 39B for testing ahead of Artemis-2.


nice that ML1 is in the backdrop. perfect timing for the shot!  ;D
« Last Edit: 09/13/2023 03:46 pm by cplchanb »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #33 on: 09/19/2023 02:18 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaoig/status/1704133911062937617

Quote
NASA’s Mobile Launcher-2 costs have rocketed over $1b—nearly three times the original contract estimate. Our team will examine what NASA is doing to contain future cost growth and schedule delays.

Catch up on our previous ML-2 work:

https://oig.nasa.gov/docs/IG-22-012.pdf

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #34 on: 10/11/2023 08:05 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasagroundsys/status/1712197303199486435

Quote
Back in June, teams received the first truss for the mobile launcher 2 and last month, they started assembling its base. But what happened between then?

In July, teams at @Bechtel blasted the steel and coated it in zinc inside one of the facilities at @NASAKennedy before using it for assembly. Coating the steel in zinc helps protect the material from rust and corrosion.

From here, teams will continue to assemble the mobile launcher 2 base in support of future Artemis missions, starting with #Artemis IV.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #35 on: 11/29/2023 12:44 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1729839625349603480

Quote
The next delivery of steel to construct the SLS Mobile Launcher 2 sailed through Port Canaveral before sunrise this morning - heading up to the KSC turn basic for unload.

This is delivery #3 by my count, and first from Louisiana.

nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #36 on: 12/19/2023 06:01 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1737117913763746076

Quote
Party never stops at the KSC turn basin! SpaceX hardware departed yesterday, SLS mobile launcher 2 steel arrives today.

Live: nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #37 on: 01/03/2024 07:00 am »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1742208821009772548

Quote
More steel for SLS Mobile Launcher 2 (ML-2) is arriving at the Turn Basin at KSC.
nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #38 on: 02/13/2024 04:33 pm »
https://twitter.com/spaceoffshore/status/1757457103906578920

Quote
The next delivery of steel to construct ML-2 for future SLS missions arrived at Kennedy Space Center a short while ago. Many more to come...

nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #39 on: 05/07/2024 05:43 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1787900667232768358

Quote
Crawler Transporter 2 (CT-2) is on the move ready to pick up the initial build of Mobile Launcher 2 (ML-2).

You can also see ML-1 in the background on 39B.

nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline c4fusion

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #40 on: 06/24/2024 10:26 pm »
I am going to show my ignorance here but how close are we to ML2 to be ready?  From the above pics and update it seems like we are close.  It should be less than a year right?

Offline woods170

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #41 on: 06/25/2024 01:05 pm »
I am going to show my ignorance here but how close are we to ML2 to be ready?  From the above pics and update it seems like we are close.  It should be less than a year right?

Sorry, but no. Structural assembly of the ML-2 and its tower will continue for another year, at least. After that, outfitting starts, which will take another year, at least. Including testing ML-2 is at least 2.5 years away from being ready to support a launch campaign.
Which is OK because it supports only block 1B of SLS, which in itself won't be ready for another 2.5 - 3 years.
« Last Edit: 06/25/2024 06:38 pm by woods170 »

Offline litton4

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #42 on: 06/26/2024 08:59 am »
I am going to show my ignorance here but how close are we to ML2 to be ready?  From the above pics and update it seems like we are close.  It should be less than a year right?

Sorry, but no. Structural assembly of the ML-2 and its tower will continue for another year, at least. After that, outfitting starts, which will take another year, at least. Including testing ML-2 is at least 2.5 years away from being ready to support a launch campaign.
Which is OK because it supports only block 1B of SLS, which in itself won't be ready for another 2.5 - 3 years.

Does anyone know how this compares with the build time for ULA's corresponding platform-2 for Vulcan?
...or is this like comparing apples with peanuts?

(NOT wanting to start a ULA discussion here!)
« Last Edit: 06/26/2024 08:59 am by litton4 »
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #43 on: 07/01/2024 04:07 pm »
I am going to show my ignorance here but how close are we to ML2 to be ready?  From the above pics and update it seems like we are close.  It should be less than a year right?

Sorry, but no. Structural assembly of the ML-2 and its tower will continue for another year, at least. After that, outfitting starts, which will take another year, at least. Including testing ML-2 is at least 2.5 years away from being ready to support a launch campaign.
Which is OK because it supports only block 1B of SLS, which in itself won't be ready for another 2.5 - 3 years.

Does anyone know how this compares with the build time for ULA's corresponding platform-2 for Vulcan?
...or is this like comparing apples with peanuts?

(NOT wanting to start a ULA discussion here!)

That is indeed comparing apples to peanuts.
The two mobile launch platforms for Vulcan and SLS Block 1B are vastly different in size, mass, complexity, mode of transport, cost, etc. They don't compare to each other in every metric except basic function.

Even trying to compare them on anything would be utterly absurd and pointless IMO.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #44 on: 07/01/2024 04:51 pm »
I am going to show my ignorance here but how close are we to ML2 to be ready?  From the above pics and update it seems like we are close.  It should be less than a year right?

Sorry, but no. Structural assembly of the ML-2 and its tower will continue for another year, at least. After that, outfitting starts, which will take another year, at least. Including testing ML-2 is at least 2.5 years away from being ready to support a launch campaign.
Which is OK because it supports only block 1B of SLS, which in itself won't be ready for another 2.5 - 3 years.

Does anyone know how this compares with the build time for ULA's corresponding platform-2 for Vulcan?
...or is this like comparing apples with peanuts?

(NOT wanting to start a ULA discussion here!)

That is indeed comparing apples to peanuts.
The two mobile launch platforms for Vulcan and SLS Block 1B are vastly different in size, mass, complexity, mode of transport, cost, etc. They don't compare to each other in every metric except basic function.

Even trying to compare them on anything would be utterly absurd and pointless IMO.
Yep. the system architectures are vastly different, among Starship, SLS, and Vulcan Centaur (and others). Comparison of subsystems is basically meaningless because the subsystem partitioning is so different.  So compare at the system level instead. You also need to to consider launch rates. How many launches from now to (say) 2030, for each system? The GSE must be amortized based on the number of launches. Furthermore, GSE affects cost of launch operations. If you invest more in GSE and it results in lower launch costs, the system cost will go down after a certain number of launches.   So yeah, not even as simple as apples and bananas.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #45 on: 08/04/2024 03:16 pm »
Here is the best picture I have of ML-2 on tour @ KSC on 7/27/24

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #46 on: 08/13/2024 04:59 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xGrHbY5OrbI

Quote
Teams with NASA’s Exploration Ground Systems at Kennedy Space Center in Florida set mobile launcher 2 on top of its permanent mounts using the spaceport’s beast-mode transporter – the crawler. This marks the completion of the jack and set milestone for the new mobile launcher.

The mobile launcher serves as the primary interface between the ground launch systems, SLS (Space Launch System) rocket, and Orion spacecraft that will launch the SLS Block 1B rocket to the Moon. With its enhanced upper stage, the new rocket will allow NASA to send astronauts and heavier cargo into lunar orbit than its predecessor, SLS Block 1. With Artemis, NASA will land the first woman, first person of color, and its first international partner astronaut on the lunar surface, establish long-term exploration for scientific discovery, and prepare for human missions to Mars.

Credit: NASA
« Last Edit: 08/13/2024 05:00 pm by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #47 on: 08/27/2024 04:58 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaoig/status/1828461005795475547

Quote
NASA is developing a second mobile launcher (ML-2) to support larger variants of the Space Launch System. NASA estimates the ML-2 will cost $1.8 billion, over three times more than planned, despite efforts to improve project performance.

Read the full report:

https://oig.nasa.gov/office-of-inspector-general-oig/audit-reports/nasas-management-of-the-mobile-launcher-2-project/

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #48 on: 08/27/2024 04:59 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1828464158326538441

Quote
Some context:

Mobile Launcher -1 (ML-1) was converted from the canceled use with Ares into the ML for SLS Block 1.

With the addition of the EUS (Exploration Upper Stage) for the Block 1B SLS, the option was to convert ML-1 to accommodate the height increase of the vehicle or build a new one.

A new one was cited at around $450m, and the option was taken based on the expected downtime of ML-1 during conversion, which would have meant no SLS launches for a few years during this period.

ML-2 is currently being constructed but has suffered from delays and contractor issues. The OIG now estimates it at $1.8 billion, which is some cost rise.

ML-2 articles over the years:
nasaspaceflight.com/?s=ML-2

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #49 on: 08/27/2024 06:28 pm »

From the executive summary of the latest OIG report on ML-2:

Quote
NASA projects the ML-2 will cost over three times more than planned. In 2019, NASA estimated the entire ML-2 project from design through construction would cost under $500 million with construction completed and the ML-2 delivered to NASA by March 2023. In December 2023, NASA estimated the ML-2 project would cost $1.5 billion, including $1.3 billion for the Bechtel contract and $168 million for other project costs, with delivery of the launcher to NASA in November 2026. In June 2024, NASA established the Agency Baseline Commitment (ABC)—the cost and schedule baseline committed to Congress against which a project is measured—for a ML-2 project cost of $1.8 billion and a delivery date of September 2027. Even with the establishment of the ABC, NASA intends to keep Bechtel accountable to the cost and schedule agreed to in December 2023.

Despite the Agency’s increased cost projections, our analysis indicates costs could be even higher due in part to the significant amount of construction work that remains. Specifically, our projections indicate the total cost could reach $2.7 billion by the time Bechtel delivers the ML-2 to NASA. With the time NASA requires after delivery to prepare the launcher, we project the ML-2 will not be ready to support a launch until spring 2029, surpassing the planned September 2028 Artemis IV launch date.

Unreal...

The world’s most expensive (and tallest) skyscraper, the luxurious Burj Khalifa in Dubai, also cost $2.7 billion to build.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #50 on: 08/27/2024 07:38 pm »
It should be noted that conversion of ML-1 would have resulted in the ML/loaded stack being way overweight for the crawlerway and pad.  A new ML(2) designed from the get-go for EUS weighs significantly less than a converted ML-1.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #51 on: 08/27/2024 08:43 pm »
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1828531047686119596

Quote
7x cost growth in five years is impressive, even by SLS program standards.

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasas-second-large-launch-tower-has-gotten-stupidly-expensive/

Quote
NASA has to be trolling with the latest cost estimate of its SLS launch tower
"NASA officials informed us they do not intend to request a fixed-price proposal."

by Eric Berger - Aug 27, 2024 8:18pm GMT

NASA's problems with the mobile launch tower that will support a larger version of its Space Launch System rocket are getting worse rather than better.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #52 on: 08/27/2024 09:18 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1828464158326538441

Quote
Some context:

Mobile Launcher -1 (ML-1) was converted from the canceled use with Ares into the ML for SLS Block 1.

With the addition of the EUS (Exploration Upper Stage) for the Block 1B SLS, the option was to convert ML-1 to accommodate the height increase of the vehicle or build a new one.

A new one was cited at around $450m, and the option was taken based on the expected downtime of ML-1 during conversion, which would have meant no SLS launches for a few years during this period.

ML-2 is currently being constructed but has suffered from delays and contractor issues. The OIG now estimates it at $1.8 billion, which is some cost rise.

ML-2 articles over the years:
nasaspaceflight.com/?s=ML-2

NASA's response is also worth reading:

Quote from: NASA's response on pages 32 and 33 of the IG Report
As stated in the report, NASA recently set the Mobile Launcher 2 (ML2) Agency Baseline Commitment (ABC) of $1.873 billion. ESDMD disagrees with the OIG-projected ML2 cost estimate of $2.7 billion. Simply using a straight-line extrapolation, as the OIG did, does not accurately reflect the current development situation. EGS has transitioned to a different phase of the project (i.e., construction) than what was in place at the beginning of the audit (i.e., the design phase). Application of a straight-line projection misses this key advancement, overlooks recent performance improvements, and does not provide a credible estimate of what we can expect in the future. For example, the OIG states its concern for the increased cost associated with equipment, minor subcontractors, and estimated management reserves, which includes costs related to the procurement and fabrication of steel, aluminum, wiring, and other construction-related material. Prior to the release of this draft report, contracts were put in place for 90 percent of materials and sub-contracts and 60 percent of all steel was delivered, with 70-80 percent in process to be delivered by October 1, 2024.

ESDMD values the OIG’s commitment to updating cost and schedule data during the audit to incorporate the latest ML2 information. However, the extended duration and pace of the audit created challenges and resulted in a misrepresented performance profile. The OIG projected a linear performance whereas the actual performance is nonlinear in nature. Cost reports through April 2024 further reinforce NASA’s cost estimate. ESDMD calculates that the current OIG estimate would be reduced by 15 percent based on recent reports provided by the prime contractor, Bechtel National, Inc. (Bechtel), further illustrating the nonlinear relationship.


Quote from: NASA's response on page 33 of the IG Report
The OIG states that by its projections, the ML2 will not be ready in time for the September 2028 Artemis IV launch readiness date. The ML2 ABC was established to reflect the most current position of the project taking into consideration that the ML2 has transitioned from design phase into construction phase. In prior estimates, the complete scope of the ML2 was underestimated but is now fully understood and risks associated with uncertainties have been included in NASA’s estimate. NASA also worked with Bechtel to establish and negotiate an incentive plan to motivate cost and schedule performance. To date, these changes have shown a positive effect. ESDMD continues to closely monitor Bechtel’s progress and remains confident in NASA’s ABC to complete ML2 by 2027.

https://oig.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/ig-24-016.pdf
« Last Edit: 08/27/2024 09:20 pm by yg1968 »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #53 on: 08/27/2024 09:47 pm »
It should be noted that conversion of ML-1 would have resulted in the ML/loaded stack being way overweight for the crawlerway and pad.  A new ML(2) designed from the get-go for EUS weighs significantly less than a converted ML-1.
The more expensive alternative was to completely gut, strip ML-1 and significantly modify the tower to remove the remain ares design holdovers to optimise the ML for future blocks. This option was not selected.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #54 on: 08/27/2024 11:15 pm »
Quote from: NASA's response on pages 32 and 33 of the IG Report
Simply using a straight-line extrapolation, as the OIG did, does not accurately reflect the current development situation.

It’s possible that the IG used the wrong slope when projecting ML-2’s final cost and delivery date.  But I’d bet dollars to donuts not, for a couple reasons:

1) The IG is independent of the program while Koerner or whoever wrote the NASA response is on the hook for the program.  Independent authorities like the IG have no incentive to oversell or undersell a program’s problems.  Their incentive is to deliver as accurate a picture of a program’s problems as possible, including projecting where the cost and schedule will wind up.  They want as reliable a track record on these projections over as many of these projections as they can get, not to kill or save a any particular program.  Program management, however, is in the business of selling the program, which includes underselling its problems.  They have every incentive — managing workforce morale, avoiding attention from senior leadership or independent authorities or OMB or Congress, avoiding cancellation, sometimes saving their salary bonuses, sometimes even just going home on time or saving their vacations — to come up with arguments that make the program look healthier than it actually is.

2) Program outcomes are almost always set in stone during formulation.  Despite the best intentions, once the contractor is on board and development is underway, it’s very hard to change where a program will wind up.  Once the slope is set, it rarely changes, if ever.  To give a couple examples from my own experience...

— Back in August 2014, SLS manager Todd May was publicly claiming that SLS would launch in 2017 using the same “we’re about to turn the corner” arguments that Koerner is making for ML-2.  I called baloney on May’s “projection” and wrote this:

Quote
The project was started in 2011, and the 2010 NASA Authorization Act required SLS to launch by 2016. It is now four years later, and the likely launch date for EM-1 has slipped to 2018 or later, a slip of two years in the first launch of SLS. That’s one year of schedule slippage for every two years that the project has existed. If the SLS schedule continues to slip at this rate over the next four years, the date of the first SLS launch will slip from 2018 to 2020. And then from 2018 to 2020, SLS will slip one more year or so before finally launching for the first time somewhere in the 2021-2022 timeframe.

As we all know, SLS launched towards the end of 2022, not in 2017.  My simple observation about the rate of SLS schedule slippage — something my 5th grader could do — was more accurate in predicting when SLS launched than the PM’s complex schedule argument by four years.  More importantly, my straight line projection was actually accurate.  So I would not discount a straight line projection from the IG on ML-2.  I would, however, discount Koerner’s contention that the ML-2 project will behave differently than it has in the past.

— I joined OMB the year after NGST (now JWST) was added to the budget.  I inherited the space science portfolio from my new boss.  Unlike him, I had half a degree in astrophysics and had access to papers on the relationship between the main mirror diameter and the cost of ground-based segmented telescopes.  NGST was way off (the wrong way) the straight-line slope for that cost-estimating relationship (or CER).  Told my boss that NGST was going to come in for billions over budget.  He said it was too late.  Listened to Weiler, Seery, and others bend over backwards to argue why NGST would be different.  It wasn’t.  The stupidity on the cost-estimating was baked into the project from the start, could never be fixed, and doomed the project to massive overruns when someone could have just used a straight line CER and much more accurately projected the final cost.  Again, I’ll take a straight line analysis from an independent authority over a convoluted explanation from a program in sales mode, any day.

FWIW...

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #55 on: 08/28/2024 02:15 pm »
Quote from: NASA's response on pages 32 and 33 of the IG Report
Simply using a straight-line extrapolation, as the OIG did, does not accurately reflect the current development situation.

It’s possible that the IG used the wrong slope when projecting ML-2’s final cost and delivery date.  But I’d bet dollars to donuts not, for a couple reasons:

1) The IG is independent of the program while Koerner or whoever wrote the NASA response is on the hook for the program.  Independent authorities like the IG have no incentive to oversell or undersell a program’s problems.  Their incentive is to deliver as accurate a picture of a program’s problems as possible, including projecting where the cost and schedule will wind up.  They want as reliable a track record on these projections over as many of these projections as they can get, not to kill or save a any particular program.  Program management, however, is in the business of selling the program, which includes underselling its problems.  They have every incentive — managing workforce morale, avoiding attention from senior leadership or independent authorities or OMB or Congress, avoiding cancellation, sometimes saving their salary bonuses, sometimes even just going home on time or saving their vacations — to come up with arguments that make the program look healthier than it actually is.

2) Program outcomes are almost always set in stone during formulation.  Despite the best intentions, once the contractor is on board and development is underway, it’s very hard to change where a program will wind up.  Once the slope is set, it rarely changes, if ever.  To give a couple examples from my own experience...

— Back in August 2014, SLS manager Todd May was publicly claiming that SLS would launch in 2017 using the same “we’re about to turn the corner” arguments that Koerner is making for ML-2.  I called baloney on May’s “projection” and wrote this:

Quote
The project was started in 2011, and the 2010 NASA Authorization Act required SLS to launch by 2016. It is now four years later, and the likely launch date for EM-1 has slipped to 2018 or later, a slip of two years in the first launch of SLS. That’s one year of schedule slippage for every two years that the project has existed. If the SLS schedule continues to slip at this rate over the next four years, the date of the first SLS launch will slip from 2018 to 2020. And then from 2018 to 2020, SLS will slip one more year or so before finally launching for the first time somewhere in the 2021-2022 timeframe.

As we all know, SLS launched towards the end of 2022, not in 2017.  My simple observation about the rate of SLS schedule slippage — something my 5th grader could do — was more accurate in predicting when SLS launched than the PM’s complex schedule argument by four years.  More importantly, my straight line projection was actually accurate.  So I would not discount a straight line projection from the IG on ML-2.  I would, however, discount Koerner’s contention that the ML-2 project will behave differently than it has in the past.

— I joined OMB the year after NGST (now JWST) was added to the budget.  I inherited the space science portfolio from my new boss.  Unlike him, I had half a degree in astrophysics and had access to papers on the relationship between the main mirror diameter and the cost of ground-based segmented telescopes.  NGST was way off (the wrong way) the straight-line slope for that cost-estimating relationship (or CER).  Told my boss that NGST was going to come in for billions over budget.  He said it was too late.  Listened to Weiler, Seery, and others bend over backwards to argue why NGST would be different.  It wasn’t.  The stupidity on the cost-estimating was baked into the project from the start, could never be fixed, and doomed the project to massive overruns when someone could have just used a straight line CER and much more accurately projected the final cost.  Again, I’ll take a straight line analysis from an independent authority over a convoluted explanation from a program in sales mode, any day.

FWIW...

Thanks for your comments.

Although it took a long time, even James Webb eventually turned a corner. The IG says that it's possible that ML-2 has turned the corner but that it is too early to tell at this point.

Quote from: IG on page 26 of the Report
While officials expect cost growth to lessen over time now that Bechtel has started construction of the launcher, it is too soon to tell if these developments will have an impact on the overall cost growth and schedule delays.
« Last Edit: 08/28/2024 03:54 pm by yg1968 »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #56 on: 08/28/2024 04:46 pm »
Although it took a long time, even James Webb eventually turned a corner.

I was referring to cost estimates on JWST, not project management.  They screwed the cost estimating pooch at the beginning of that program with a ridiculous ~$1B estimate when even a casual look at the CERs for segmented ground-based telescopes would have told them that it was going to be a multi-billion dollar project.  No good project management can make up for bad cost estimates, so JWST ended up costing ~10x its budgeted estimated versus, say, a ~2x overrun.

Maybe Bechtel low-balled their cost estimate for ML-2 to a degree and that explains part of its overrun.  But ML-2 is mismanaged in ways that JWST never was.  It doesn’t make sense that an open steel structure with an elevator and a couple moving arms should cost anything close to what a luxury skyscraper many times its height costs.  It doesn’t make sense that this structure costs as much or more than each initial HLS contract or option.  It doesn’t make sense that SX or ULA can get launch structures built for a small fraction of what ML-2 is costing.  Something more than bad cost estimates is fundamentally wrong with the management of the program.  The IG and GAO have to be fair and balanced with programs, and if a program says it’s going to turn the corner, they have to note it in their reports.  But despite Koerner’s claims and Nelson’s prior und drang on ML-2, there’s no evidence in this IG report or anywhere else that ML-2 is turning a corner.  Just the opposite — the overruns are continuing and the estimates keep rising.  Given that and similar performance across the board on Orion/SLS/EGS, I’d still bet dollars to donuts that ML-2 comes in closer to the IG’s estimate of $2.7B in 2029 than whatever Koerner & Co. offers for the cost/schedule estimate.

FWIW...

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #57 on: 08/28/2024 06:53 pm »
It should be noted that conversion of ML-1 would have resulted in the ML/loaded stack being way overweight for the crawlerway and pad.  A new ML(2) designed from the get-go for EUS weighs significantly less than a converted ML-1.
Even ML-2 eats into NASA's safety margin.  The CT still has to lift these behemoths.  I remember the "let's build it of titanium" ramblings.
Paul

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #58 on: 08/28/2024 10:00 pm »

NASA’s own independent estimate for ML-2 is that the project will come in four months later and cost $300M more than the project baseline commitment set just a couple months ago.  And that and the EGS program estimate both register zero probability that ML-2 will meet the baseline schedule commitment.  ML-2 is in free fall.  I don’t understand why Koerner is complaining about IG estimating methodology when she doesn’t even bother to align her programs with NASA’s own cost estimates in the first place.  How can she argue NASA’s estimates are any better than the IG’s when she doesn’t believe or use them either?  I guess a manager’s job is easier if they can just disbelieve every cost and schedule projection and live in their own fantasy world...

Quote
NASA awarded Bechtel the contract for ML-2 in August 2019 valued at $383 million, with the platform scheduled for delivery to NASA by March 2023. However, costs have grown significantly while schedules slipped. A previous OIG audit of the project in 2022 found that the official cost had grown to $960 million, with independent projections estimating the cost would reach nearly $1.5 billion.

The OIG report noted that NASA established what is known as the agency baseline commitment for the ML-2 project in June, setting a cost of $1.8 billion and delivery date of September 2027. That cost includes $168 million in NASA’s own costs for ML-2 outside of the Bechtel contract. NASA, though, said it would hold Bechtel to an estimate made the previous December of $1.3 billion and delivery in November 2026.

However, an independent review done as part of development the agency baseline commitment estimated that the project will instead cost $2.1 billion and not be delivered until January 2028. That review, as well as a separate assessment done by NASA’s Exploration Ground Systems (EGS) program, “both found a zero percent likelihood of Bechtel delivering the launcher by November 2026,” OIG stated in its report. [emphasis added]

The OIG report also estimates that cost growth in Bechtel’s contact will continue, reaching $2.5 billion by 2027. That would be 6.5 times the original value of the contract when awarded five years ago.

“Our projections are based on the substantial cost growth that the Bechtel contract has incurred over the last 3 years, past performance issues observed during design with the production of detailed drawings for steel fabrication and management of the launcher’s weight, and the significant amount of construction work that remains,” the report stated... “Bechtel has yet to demonstrate the sustained level of performance needed to reduce overall costs.”

The report added that the overall cost of the ML-2 project could reach $2.7 billion, counting NASA’s contributions that have grown from $96 million at the project’s inception to $168 million today. Part of that growth involves work removed from the Bechtel contract, such as development of 6 of the 11 umbilical arms for the launch tower that NASA will instead build and provide to Bechtel as government-furnished equipment.

ML-2 is also way out-of-bed with its budget, by nearly a half-billion:

Quote
The cost growth, OIG added, could strain NASA’s budget. NASA, in its fiscal year 2025 budget request, projected spending $415.5 million on EGS development projects, including ML-2, in fiscal years 2025 through 2027, a 72% increase from the 2024 request. However, that would not be sufficient to cover the OIG’s projected costs of ML-2 development in that time span, with a projected shortfall of nearly $400 million.

What a looming disaster...

Quote
There is little NASA can do, the report concluded, to encourage Bechtel to reduce its costs. The cost-plus contract does include an option to convert it into a fixed-price contract, but NASA is unlikely to use that option, the report concluded, since it would require Bechtel to approve that change. “Bechtel would likely provide a cost proposal far beyond NASA’s budgetary capacity to account for the additional risk that comes with a fixed-price contract,” the report stated, citing discussions with NASA officials.

Use procurement and the general counsel communications to make life miserable for Bechtel’s senior leadership.  Refer the situation to the IG for investigation.  Talk to DOJ about a misrepresentation case and start taking them to court if necessary.  Call off these actions if/when Bechtel will settle for a fixed-price contract at a reasonable number.

Or start pursuing studies for credible alternatives to Bechtel and/or to Orion/SLS overall and threaten termination.  Or just terminate.

When you have no leverage, create some, and start playing hardball.  Stop blaming the messenger (IG), and for gawd sakes, stop telegraphing your powerlessness in public.  Cripes... doesn’t anyone in NASA human space flight actively manage anything these days?

Quotes above from Foust’s article today:

https://spacenews.com/nasas-inspector-general-predicts-continued-cost-growth-for-sls-mobile-launch-platform/
« Last Edit: 08/28/2024 10:19 pm by VSECOTSPE »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #59 on: 09/12/2024 02:26 pm »
NASA are unhappy with the recent OIG audit

Quote
One might expect the audit to come up two days later at a meeting of the NASA Advisory Council’s human exploration and operations committee, given the long-running concerns about the ML-2 project. Instead, NASA officials and committee members focused not on the auditors’ report but on the auditors themselves.

Quote
The committee was sympathetic to Koerner’s concerns. Later in the meeting, they started drafting a recommendation that the NASA administrator “seek relief from the burden of multiple external audits” by asking the White House and Congress to limit such audits unless required by law.

“We all absolutely agree with and, quite frankly, support independent assessments,” said one committee member, Kwatsi Alibaruho, “but the level of audits that have been requested have now grown to the point where it’s becoming a significant portion of the team’s overall work.

Another committee member, Paul McConnaughey, was worried that when OIG or the Government Accountability Office (GAO) releases audits, “the press takes that and sensationalizes it, and inappropriately so.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #60 on: 09/12/2024 02:51 pm »

Talk about shooting the messenger.  Koerner’s central complaint from that article:

Quote
One audit, she estimated, took about 1,100 hours.

That sounds like a big number, but it’s not.  A full-time employee puts in something approaching 2000 hours a year.  (Say 40 hours a week multiplied by 48 work weeks per year is 1920 hours.)  So Koerner is complaining, to the NAC of all places, about “wasting” the equivalent of a little over half of one employee’s work hours.  At the same time, problems identified in IG report on EUS quality control and ML-2 schedule incompetence are shifting Artemis IV to the right by years, which is actually wasting literally millions of Artemis workforce hours.

Such unserious leadership and way out-of-whack values in ESDMD.

And such unserious advisors in the NAC.  As longtime observer Marcia Smith twittered after their last meeting:

Quote
NAC-HEO ends early. Artemis is behind schedule, over cost, uncertain path forward on Orion heat shield, big problems w/ML-2 and Block IB, and their draft recs/findings are there should be fewer audits and they want to know more about NASA's 2040 plan.

It does not bode well for Artemis that both the ESDMD AA and the NAC are off chasing imagined enemies in the IG instead of dealing with actual program problems.
« Last Edit: 09/12/2024 05:42 pm by VSECOTSPE »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #61 on: 09/28/2024 02:06 pm »
ML-2 status as of 28 September 2024 per Crew-8 stream

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #62 on: 10/27/2024 08:06 pm »
Phillip Sloss provides an update on the ML-2:

Time   Chapter name
07:51 Mobile Launcher-2 construction milestone: assembly of the umbilical tower "chair"


https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54243.msg2636824#msg2636824
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #63 on: 01/26/2025 11:57 am »

Phillip Sloss provides an update on the ML-2:

Time   Chapter name
09:46 Video of three-month old EUS Umbilical testing released


https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=58212.msg2659824#msg2659824
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #64 on: 03/10/2025 07:04 am »
Cross Post:

Phillip Sloss Report on the progress of ML-2:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=58212.msg2670510#msg2670510

Timestamps:
13:10 Mobile Launcher-2 umbilical tower module 5 stacking

The video link is queued here to that timestamp.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FFwCiq6eKBMa#t=790s
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #65 on: 04/09/2025 08:04 pm »
I think this is module 6

Only 7 to 10 remain

https://twitter.com/ENNEPS/status/1909712681398895080

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #66 on: 04/09/2025 09:16 pm »
Quote
Mobile launcher 2 now stands approximately 240 feet tall and will grow another 150 feet as teams continue stacking...

https://twitter.com/NASAGroundSys/status/1910065536613892597

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #68 on: 04/14/2025 05:50 am »
Cross-Post to Phillip Sloss Weekly report:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=62717.msg2679394#msg2679394


25:43 Mobile Launcher-2 umbilical tower module 6 stacked
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #69 on: 04/22/2025 07:44 pm »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #70 on: 04/24/2025 08:45 pm »
https://twitter.com/ENNEPS/status/1914753568906645718

https://images.nasa.gov/details/KSC-20250423-PH-KLS01_0003

Quote
NASA’s mobile launcher 2 team, led by contractor Bechtel National Inc., integrated Module 7 onto the mobile launcher under construction near the Vehicle Assembly Building at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Wednesday, April 23, 2025. Each module is 40 feet tall and once complete will rise to 390 feet to provide ground support to launch for the SLS (Space Launch System) Block 1B variant rocket during launch of the Artemis IV mission.
Date Created:2025-04-23


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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #71 on: 04/25/2025 07:48 pm »
https://www.nasa.gov/blogs/missions/2025/04/24/nasas-mobile-launcher-2-continues-to-grow/

Quote
The tower of NASA’s mobile launcher 2 continues to rise with the addition of two new 40-foot-tall modules on April 22 at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The mobile launcher 2 team, led by Bechtel National Inc., has integrated modules 6 and 7, which are the third and fourth of seven sections that will form the mobile launcher’s almost 400-foot-tall tower structure. The mobile launcher currently is under construction next to the spaceport’s iconic Vehicle Assembly Building.

Module 6 is designed to support the vehicle stabilizer, an interface that helps reduce motion of the SLS (Space Launch System) rocket during rollout to the launch pad, in high wind events, and during launch countdown. The stabilizer will drop away from the larger SLS Block 1 B rocket at liftoff and is designed to support future SLS configurations and their varying load requirements.

Module 7 is the tower’s payload accommodation subsystem which will serve as the interface between SLS payloads and NASA Kennedy’s Launch Control Center, allowing the launch team to monitor, test, and issue commands to the SLS rocket and Orion flight hardware. Located within an air-conditioned steel shell and protected by launch-rated shock isolators, this subsystem also will provide payload access for personnel during pre- and post-launch operations.

Once complete, mobile launcher 2 will reach 390 feet and provide the support needed for the addition of the SLS Exploration Upper Stage for the Block 1B configuration of the rocket that will launch beginning with the Artemis IV mission.

https://twitter.com/NASAGroundSys/status/1915851638734033029
« Last Edit: 04/25/2025 07:49 pm by pochimax »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #72 on: 05/19/2025 07:22 pm »
Quote
16:48
back at KSC mobile launcher 2 Prime
contractor Becttel lifted the fifth of
seven umbilical tower modules into place
this past week module 8

something that was also noted but we
don't have any way of showing is that
Becttel also lifted the core stage
forward skirt umbilical arm for this
second mobile launcher into place on the
tower


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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #73 on: 05/19/2025 08:03 pm »
Why is Bechtel going faster all of a sudden?

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #74 on: 05/19/2025 08:08 pm »
Why is Bechtel going faster all of a sudden?

I'm not assuming it actually is going faster. The highly visible part is now happening, as the assembled modules are lifted into place. The assembly of those modules was being done someplace that wasn't quite so visible.
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #75 on: 05/19/2025 08:17 pm »
Why is Bechtel going faster all of a sudden?

From past year OIG report:

Quote
Bechtel was initially contracted to design,
build, and test the ML-2 for $383 million and deliver it to NASA by March 2023. However, the contract
value has nearly tripled to $1.1 billion and the delivery date has been delayed by more than 3 years to
May 2026.


Cost and schedule estimates from both NASA and Bechtel for the ML-2 contract have changed several
times and increased significantly over time. NASA’s lack of an official baseline for the first 5 years of the
ML-2 project has limited visibility into its potential total cost and the information needed for Congress
and others to better hold the Agency accountable. In June 2024, NASA established a commitment to
Congress for a total ML-2 project cost of $1.8 billion and a delivery date of September 2027. We project,
however, that the ML-2’s total cost could reach $2.7 billion by the time Bechtel delivers the launcher to
NASA in 2027.

NASA officials are encouraged by recent progress as ML-2 project management reports the design is
nearly complete and the frame of the base structure and first tower module are complete. While
officials expect cost growth to lessen over time now that Bechtel has started construction of the
launcher, it is too soon to tell if these developments will have an impact on the overall cost growth and
schedule delays.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #76 on: 05/22/2025 05:12 pm »
Okay, actually, they hadn't assembled module 8 yet.

https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/1925551848846397589

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #77 on: 05/25/2025 04:52 am »
Phillip Sloss' weekly updated video includes an update/correction to his ML-2 report from last week.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #78 on: 06/01/2025 03:21 am »
The FY26 PBR cancels ML-2.

Quote
NASA will close out Mobile Launcher-2 development, as ML-2 will not be needed to support SLS due to the orderly shutdown of the SLS Block 1B upgrade. NASA proposes to use previously appropriated unobligated balances to support the termination of these activities, including but not limited to, ongoing administration, oversight, and monitoring
[Pg. EXP-19 / Sheet 45]


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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #79 on: 06/02/2025 06:02 pm »
The FY26 PBR cancels ML-2.

Quote
NASA will close out Mobile Launcher-2 development, as ML-2 will not be needed to support SLS due to the orderly shutdown of the SLS Block 1B upgrade. NASA proposes to use previously appropriated unobligated balances to support the termination of these activities, including but not limited to, ongoing administration, oversight, and monitoring
[Pg. EXP-19 / Sheet 45]

what a shambolic waste of time and money... they are going to waste further millions just to cancel and this structure will be left rotting in the elements.
this current govt administration is truly a disaster.
« Last Edit: 06/02/2025 06:02 pm by cplchanb »

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #80 on: 06/02/2025 06:27 pm »
The FY26 PBR cancels ML-2.

Quote
NASA will close out Mobile Launcher-2 development, as ML-2 will not be needed to support SLS due to the orderly shutdown of the SLS Block 1B upgrade. NASA proposes to use previously appropriated unobligated balances to support the termination of these activities, including but not limited to, ongoing administration, oversight, and monitoring
[Pg. EXP-19 / Sheet 45]

what a shambolic waste of time and money... they are going to waste further millions just to cancel and this structure will be left rotting in the elements.
this current govt administration is truly a disaster.


I agree. SLS is a huge waste of money, and so canceling the program (ML-2 included) is a net positive for the U.S. Treasury. This would be an excellent example of not falling into the sunk-costs fallacy.
So this is how other people put stuff at the bottom of their posts!

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #82 on: 06/28/2025 07:00 pm »
Mod-10

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1939017039089222129

Quote
NSF - NASASpaceflight.com
@NASASpaceflight
There's Mod-10, the final section for the SLS Mobile Launch 2 (ML-2), as required for the taller SLS Block 1B.

When lifted at the Parksite, it will begin a massive commissioning and system startup process.

The project is fully funded through the end of FY25

http://nsf.live/spacecoast
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #83 on: 07/02/2025 08:17 pm »
Max Evens

https://twitter.com/_mgde_/status/1940499099532357709

Quote
NASA's Mobile Launcher 2 (ML-2), designed and built to support SLS Block 1B, completed stacking earlier this morning with its 10th and final module being lifted into place.

Now at its full height, work will continue on ML-2's internals and umbilical structures.
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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #84 on: 07/02/2025 09:01 pm »
From GAO report

Quote
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) established
cost and schedule baselines for the ML2 project in June 2024. The cost
baseline is about $1.9 billion, and the schedule baseline is September
2027 for the delivery of ML2 from Bechtel, the prime contractor, to
NASA. Bechtel is working to a delivery date of November 2026, and its
contract was modified in March 2024 to incentivize an earlier delivery.
The schedule baseline does not include ML2 verification and validation
activities planned for after the delivery and prior to Artemis IV, which
NASA is tracking as the project’s top risk. To mitigate this risk, the
project plans to concurrently test the ML2 at the launch pad while
Artemis III hardware is processed in the Vehicle Assembly Building.
The project completed its critical design review. NASA and Bechtel
continue to assess the design implications of higher-than-anticipated
Artemis I launch-induced loads. The analysis is ongoing, so they have
not yet determined the full cost implications.
Construction on the ML2 structure is underway. Bechtel installed the first
tower module on the ML2 base in January 2025. Officials said there is
some schedule risk for remaining modules but NASA expects the
contractor to be able to support a November 2026 delivery of the tower.

Quote
Cost and Schedule Status
In June 2024, NASA established cost and schedule
baselines for the ML2 project based on a 70 percent joint
cost and schedule confidence level, as required by NASA
policy. The joint cost and schedule confidence level is an
integrated analysis of a project’s cost, schedule, risk, and
uncertainty, which indicates a project’s likelihood of
meeting a given set of cost and schedule targets. The
schedule baseline is September 2027 for Bechtel’s
delivery of ML2 to NASA. The cost baseline of
approximately $1.9 billion includes all prime contractor
efforts through delivery, as well as government furnished
equipment and government provided project
management and design support.
As of February 2025, NASA is working with the contractor
to support a November 2026 delivery date of the tower.
NASA modified its contract with Bechtel in March 2024 to
increase the available award fee and add a new award
fee component based on schedule milestones, among
other things. The change is meant to motivate earlier
delivery—the contractor will receive the highest single
schedule milestone fee payment if it delivers ML2 by May
2026, but will not receive a schedule milestone award fee
payment for the delivery if it is after November 2026. As
of February 2025, project officials expect the contractor to
be able to support a 2026 delivery, which is well in
advance of the project’s schedule baseline.
NASA’s top risk for ML2 is that there may be insufficient
schedule margin for ML2 verification and validation
testing between the Artemis III and IV missions. The
testing is largely planned to occur after Bechtel’s delivery
of ML2. However, some of the testing activities require
access to the launch pad or a modified Vehicle Assembly
Building and cannot take place until Artemis III launches.
Artemis III is planned for mid-2027, and Artemis IV is
currently planned to launch no earlier than September
2028. That schedule provides less than 18 months to
complete testing and first-time integration of ML2 with
SLS Block 1B and Orion. As of February 2025, project
risk documentation states that this testing could exceed
the time allocated by 8 months, which could delay the
Artemis IV mission. To mitigate this schedule risk, NASA
officials said that they plan to conduct simultaneous ML2
verification and validation at the launch pad while Artemis
III is processing in the Vehicle Assembly Building.

Quote
Design
NASA successfully completed both steps of the ML2
project’s critical design review: step one for hardware and
programmatic content in January 2024, and step two for
software and verification and validation plans in June
2024. As of February 2025, ML2 officials reported that the
design is complete for all but one subsystem.
NASA is currently tracking a top risk that an ongoing
loads analysis may drive cost and schedule growth.
According to project officials, the blast from the SLS
boosters during launch created loads, or forces, on the
ML1 structure that were higher than anticipated. NASA
and Bechtel are taking a three-phase approach to
examine the implications of the changed loads for the
ML2 design. They completed phase one and the
engineering design work for phase two, which identified
ML2 modifications needed to withstand the greater loads.
They then executed engineering design work to
implement those modifications.
Phase three is underway as of February 2025 and will
include engineering analysis of any calculations not
addressed in earlier phases. Project officials said that
phase three will be complete by the fourth quarter of
2025. According to NASA, the challenge with the loads
analysis has been keeping the construction work going
since the same employees are needed to support both
efforts. As of February 2025, the project is working on
estimates for the cost increases associated with the
phase three analysis and modifications.

Quote
Construction
Construction of ML2 continues, with work underway on
the base and assembly of portions of the tower occurring
on the ground. The tower modules will be installed, or
rigged and set on top of the base, after which NASA and
the contractor will work to install umbilical arms. These
arms will connect the tower to the rocket and spacecraft
to provide electrical support and propellant, among other
things. The contractor installed the first tower module on
the ML2 base in January 2025, within the timeframe for a
schedule milestone award fee payment. Project officials
reported that as of May 2025, another three modules
have been installed on the tower. They said that they plan
to install the final three modules after they complete their
construction and equipment installations by the end of
June 2025, which they said is within the targeted range
for one of the major milestones. Officials also reported
that the first of several umbilicals was installed on the
tower in May 2025, meeting the early schedule milestone
date.
Project risk documentation states that electrical
equipment deliveries are behind schedule, which could
affect plans for installing future tower modules. Project
officials said that electrical equipment is easier to install
prior to the rig and set of a module because it is easier to
access and install on the ground than other types of
equipment

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #85 on: 07/03/2025 11:46 am »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

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Re: ML-2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #86 on: 07/06/2025 11:40 am »
Cross-post:  Phillip Sloss reports on ML-2 on his weekly status video.

20:25 Other news and notes, starting with Mobile Launcher-2 umbilical tower being topped out
22:26 Artemis IV related GAO assessments of Mobile Launcher-2 and SLS Block 1B

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=62717.msg2699410#msg2699410
« Last Edit: 07/06/2025 11:44 am by catdlr »
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