Author Topic: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?  (Read 6447 times)

Offline truth is life

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A while back, I asked a question about some pre-Freedom space station plans that was answered very promptly and usefully by the people here. Now, I want to ask a question about Freedom itself: Why did it--I don't want to say "dismally fail," since after all the ISS flies today, but it clearly didn't live up to NASA's promises, and took far longer to build and launch than was originally envisioned--not turn out so successfully? And were there changes NASA could have made to the station or the process (aside from canceling it, obviously) that could have made it turn out more quickly and successfully?

Offline Jorge

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #1 on: 12/07/2010 07:43 pm »
A while back, I asked a question about some pre-Freedom space station plans that was answered very promptly and usefully by the people here. Now, I want to ask a question about Freedom itself: Why did it--I don't want to say "dismally fail," since after all the ISS flies today, but it clearly didn't live up to NASA's promises, and took far longer to build and launch than was originally envisioned--not turn out so successfully? And were there changes NASA could have made to the station or the process (aside from canceling it, obviously) that could have made it turn out more quickly and successfully?

Several reasons.

1) Unwieldy program management structure - SSF was divided into four Work Packages, each WP managed out of a different NASA center, and each with its own prime contractor. The program office then had its own contractor for program integration. Led to stovepiping at the centers, poor communication, and unclear lines of accountability. ISS went to JSC as single lead center and Boeing as single prime contractor.

2) Number and clarity of requirements - SSF was originally pitched as the end-all-be-all to every area of research and exploration and started out being designed to support eight different mission enterprises. Many station subsystems turned into hobby shops and science projects for cramming bleeding edge technology into the design. Most of the eight missions got pared down over the years, and by the time of ISS it was down to one: microgravity research. Much of the gee-whiz tech got pared down as well (resistojet propulsion, solar dynamic power, the elaborate data management system, etc).

3) Unrealistic assembly plans - SSF assembly sequence originally required an EVA hand-assembled truss. EVA hours were totally unrealistic. The last SSF redesign before ISS replaced the hand-assembled truss with pre-integrated truss segments.

4) Underfunding - while 1-3 might have been fatal by themselves, the station program was also consistently underfunded during the SSF years. Program opponents in Congress tried to kill it every year, but failing that, they'd cut the appropriation by a few hundred million every year. This resulted in program stretchouts and multiple redesigns.
JRF

Offline Malderi

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #2 on: 12/07/2010 07:46 pm »
Jorge, do you have any details, relating especially to #2? Or a book to recommend? After reading your post, I realized how woefully uninformed I am about the early history of Freedom.

Offline missleman01

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #3 on: 12/08/2010 02:22 pm »
A few years back Marcus Lindroos had a fantastic online history of Freedom and ISS and it went all the way from 1970s design studies, through the turmoil of space station redesign in the 80s and early 90s, the Space Exploration Initiative, and then its morphing into ISS with the A B and C options Clinton chose from.

It was massive, with tons of articles and photos with basically at least one page on every pet project that any of the centers ever proposed (like the space docks, tugs, and polar platform, hermes, HL-20, CRVs, etc...). Lindroos had enough for a book but alas the site dissapeared. Honestly he should probably turn what he had into a book. Maybe he is?!? Who knows?

I did notice, however, that many of the US space station articles on astronautix are by Lindroos. Many of the vehicles/proposals that were part of freedom have separate articles, albeit smaller than what he had on his private site. Much of the material still made it over for the major design phases. You could start there.

Of key interest is looking at separate articles for things like space operations center, 1984 space station, power tower, dual keel, fred, and so on...There are articles that at least cover each major redesign of freedom over the years at the link below. If you can piece them together in order you can see the flow of design.

http://www.astronautix.com/fam/usstions.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/spaenter.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/span1984.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/pown1984.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/duan1985.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/spaeedom.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/spanfred.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/spas1993.htm


Does anyone else have an idea of happened to Lindroos website, has anyone else seen it?
« Last Edit: 12/08/2010 02:27 pm by missleman01 »

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #4 on: 12/08/2010 06:48 pm »
Under funding probably killed the pre ISS stations more then anything else.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #5 on: 12/08/2010 08:23 pm »
A few years back Marcus Lindroos had a fantastic online history of Freedom and ISS and it went all the way from 1970s design studies, through the turmoil of space station redesign in the 80s and early 90s, the Space Exploration Initiative, and then its morphing into ISS with the A B and C options Clinton chose from.

It was massive, with tons of articles and photos with basically at least one page on every pet project that any of the centers ever proposed (like the space docks, tugs, and polar platform, hermes, HL-20, CRVs, etc...). Lindroos had enough for a book but alas the site dissapeared. Honestly he should probably turn what he had into a book. Maybe he is?!? Who knows?

I did notice, however, that many of the US space station articles on astronautix are by Lindroos. Many of the vehicles/proposals that were part of freedom have separate articles, albeit smaller than what he had on his private site. Much of the material still made it over for the major design phases. You could start there.

Of key interest is looking at separate articles for things like space operations center, 1984 space station, power tower, dual keel, fred, and so on...There are articles that at least cover each major redesign of freedom over the years at the link below. If you can piece them together in order you can see the flow of design.

Does anyone else have an idea of happened to Lindroos website, has anyone else seen it?

I spent long hours peering through Lindroos website back in 2002-2003.
That the place were I learn how difficult the space shuttle development had been.
Great news then: the website is BACK !
http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld001.htm
http://sites.google.com/site/spaceodysseytwo/system/app/pages/sitemap/hierarchy
Cheers !
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Danny Dot

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #6 on: 12/08/2010 08:49 pm »
I didn't work on either station dirrectly, but in CxP we had WAY to much paper work.  Volumes of documents to review at each milestone - most of which had nothing to due with the primary purpose of the milestone.

Danny Deger
Danny Deger

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #7 on: 12/08/2010 09:32 pm »
Under funding probably killed the pre ISS stations more then anything else.


Or another way to look at it is that they designed a station that was too expensive.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #8 on: 12/08/2010 09:34 pm »
There was actually an early 1990s report by a government agency that addressed the number of EVA hours required for station assembly.  The gist of it was that they would have to do so many EVAs that it was impossible.  I cannot remember what agency did the study, but it should not be difficult to find out, and if the study was done by a major agency like GAO, it should be online.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #9 on: 12/08/2010 09:37 pm »
Go to www.gao.gov and do a search (in quotes) for "space station freedom"

http://www.gao.gov/search?search_type=Solr&o=0&facets=&q=%22space+station+freedom%22

You'll get a bunch of hits.  GAO reports are dry, but they give you a sense of the cost overrun issues and other criticisms of the station.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #10 on: 12/09/2010 04:29 am »
I have a question related to this... Before ISS and Russian involvement, what would have been the CRV for the station crew?

For all the options ("power tower"/Freedom/Fred/Opt A/B/C), there is limited info on what they imagined to use as a crew rescue vehicle.

Was it HL-20 or bust? Or was something else planned, like extended ops Shuttle mods? Or had they not gotten to it yet?

Offline Jorge

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #11 on: 12/09/2010 04:47 am »
I have a question related to this... Before ISS and Russian involvement, what would have been the CRV for the station crew?

For all the options ("power tower"/Freedom/Fred/Opt A/B/C), there is limited info on what they imagined to use as a crew rescue vehicle.

Was it HL-20 or bust? Or was something else planned, like extended ops Shuttle mods? Or had they not gotten to it yet?


SSF was planned to be man-tended until the last flight in the assembly sequence, which would have carried an ACRV. A 1991 assembly sequence is here:

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/mwade/graphics/s/ssassy91.gif

The NASA ACRV didn't get very far before NASA started considering options to reduce its cost, such as having ESA build it as part of a barter agreement, or using Soyuz through a US integration contractor (most likely Rockwell). All this became OBE when ISS replaced SSF.
JRF

Offline pathfinder_01

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #12 on: 12/09/2010 04:50 am »
I have a question related to this... Before ISS and Russian involvement, what would have been the CRV for the station crew?

For all the options ("power tower"/Freedom/Fred/Opt A/B/C), there is limited info on what they imagined to use as a crew rescue vehicle.

Was it HL-20 or bust? Or was something else planned, like extended ops Shuttle mods? Or had they not gotten to it yet?


Depends on the time period. For very early station plans(perhaps prefreedom) it would have been an Apollo Derived Capsule. For later plans HL20 and for the last plans the X-38(for the ISS).

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #13 on: 12/09/2010 12:38 pm »
I forgot about the Apollo option.  There is at least one illustration of an Apollo-type capsule with a much smaller SM attached at the space station.

Offline missleman01

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #14 on: 12/09/2010 04:26 pm »

I spent long hours peering through Lindroos website back in 2002-2003.
That the place were I learn how difficult the space shuttle development had been.
Great news then: the website is BACK !
http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld001.htm
http://sites.google.com/site/spaceodysseytwo/system/app/pages/sitemap/hierarchy
Cheers !

Thanks Archibald! Ive been looking for that site a long time since the old links quit working. I look forward to picking it back up.

Much appreciated.
« Last Edit: 12/09/2010 04:27 pm by missleman01 »

Offline Archibald

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Re: Space Station Freedom: Reasons for lack of success?
« Reply #15 on: 12/09/2010 04:45 pm »
You are welcome !
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

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