Author Topic: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)  (Read 353199 times)

Offline CrewtaiL

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #80 on: 01/21/2019 11:29 pm »
According to the attached brochure, the weight of the HX is less than 1 tonne. Has it always been under a tonne?
« Last Edit: 01/21/2019 11:31 pm by CrewtaiL »

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #81 on: 01/22/2019 03:12 am »
Rapidly dumping huge amounts of something as reactive as hydrogen into the air safely is no trivial task.
Perhaps you should consider that 150 tonnes of Skylon's mass is LOX, which is much heavier and a lot easier to dump.

That doesn't help, it makes things worse.  It would be much easier if it was just hydrogen that had to be dumped.  Dumping large amounts of hydrogen and large amounts of oxygen at the same time -- you really don't want those two mixing, but it's hard to keep them from mixing if you're dumping large amounts of both at the same time from the same vehicle.

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #82 on: 01/22/2019 07:07 pm »

Perhaps you should consider that 150 tonnes of Skylon's mass is LOX, which is much heavier and a lot easier to dump.

That doesn't help [...] Dumping large amounts of hydrogen and large amounts of oxygen at the same time -- you really don't want those two mixing, but it's hard to keep them from mixing if you're dumping large amounts of both at the same time from the same vehicle.
Why would one dump them at the same time?

Online john smith 19

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #83 on: 01/23/2019 06:29 am »
That doesn't help, it makes things worse.  It would be much easier if it was just hydrogen that had to be dumped.  Dumping large amounts of hydrogen and large amounts of oxygen at the same time -- you really don't want those two mixing, but it's hard to keep them from mixing if you're dumping large amounts of both at the same time from the same vehicle.
Strawman.
IRL deciding what to dump and when during an abort would be a detail design question. LOX (as XCOR demonstrated) is fairly easy to dump and radically lightens the vehicle, giving you more time to decide what to do.

It's also unnecessary for an abort as Skylon will remain in the atmosphere during such an event. REL have stated Skylon was designed to fly with one engine out during an abort so it would either dump LH2 or burn it off before lining up for its approach.

Another detail design question would be wheather an abort will be a powered landing or the SOP gliding landing. Obviously the powered would be more controlled but unpowered would reduce the stock of fuel on board, which would be better if anything further went wrong. OTOH the unpowered landing routines are tested with every landing, while this mode would be relatively untested, except during the Skylon flight test programme, when I expect quite a few flights would be to gradually develop the envelope, not going to full orbital. Otherwise it might be tested a couple of times during the test flights of a new vehicle, if that.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2019 11:38 am by john smith 19 »
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #84 on: 02/25/2019 08:56 am »
Not an awful lot that's new, but it's said in an American accent...

[was https:// www youtube com/watch?v=bIO_B40g03U]

at 1:35 it explains THE HTX test site is able to produce "the varying temperature profile and run duration corresponding to operational SABRE missions" -- which hopefully provides a less ambiguous answer to wheather the you can dynamically vary the conditions while the rig is running

The precooler is expected to drop the temperature by over 1300 °F - I'm guessing that's translated from 700 C
« Last Edit: 04/11/2019 12:55 pm by JCRM »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #85 on: 03/14/2019 09:30 am »
Quote
Reaction Engines’ Sabre Rocket Engine Demo Core Passes Review
Guy Norris | Aerospace Daily & Defense Report       Mar 14, 2019

The demonstrator core of Reaction Engines’ air-breathing Sabre rocket propulsion system has successfully passed a preliminary design review held in collaboration with the UK and European Space Agencies.

The assessment clears the way for a follow-on critical design review and the subsequent development and test of the core at a newly-built facility in Westcott, England, in 2020.

https://aviationweek.com/future-aerospace/reaction-engines-sabre-rocket-engine-demo-core-passes-review

Edit to add: here's Reaction Engine's press release

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news/esa-completes-further-design-validation-reaction-engines-revolutionary-air-breathing-sabretm-rocket-engine
« Last Edit: 03/14/2019 09:32 am by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline bolun

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #86 on: 03/15/2019 04:52 pm »
ESA's article and pic: ESA greenlight for UK's air-breathing rocket engine

Image credit: Reaction Engines Ltd

Offline oddbodd

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #87 on: 04/08/2019 12:13 am »
Haven't even read it myself yet... that's how fresh it is  ;)
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47832920

Offline oddbodd

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #88 on: 04/08/2019 12:25 am »
Hmmmm. So it seems they've blasted the hot exhaust of a jet engine over the cooler module and it succeeded in cooling the air-stream, replicating the thermals of Mach 3.3 flight. Cool! (pun intended  ;D )

Offline knowles2

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #89 on: 04/08/2019 02:07 am »
I'm glad testing up to 3.3 was successful and they manage to extract all that heat.

I presume they will test a Mach 5 a few times. Then do a full flight profiling testing, where they simulate the flight of a average launch? Before disassembling the cooler and seeing how it cope with doing all of this for real, at full scale in these conditions.

Then later on a 2nd cooler will be sent to the US for endurance testing to see how many times it can withstand these conditions before needing to be replace?  A figure I'm sure investors are eager to learn.

Hopefully REL will keep us inform like this and not go quiet for the rest of the year.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2019 02:19 am by knowles2 »

Offline knowles2

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #90 on: 04/08/2019 02:17 am »
As per Mark Wood's talk at the IET last year, for spacecraft applications RE's target for spacecraft SABRE applications is a TSTO vehicle, not an SSTO Skylon. Non-space applications (i.e. hypersonic flight) are expected to be arrive first.
They aim TSTO because that what Darpa wanted in one its requests to industry, REL pivot to that to obtain funding to do the current testing they are doing in the US. An it obvious they got to at least pretend this what they really want to build in public to keep DARPA on side. 

Now if a billionaire suddenly decided to throw cash at REL and this billionaire want to fund a SSTO vehicle in the form of Skylon, an is offering substantially more cash than DARPA then REL will pivot to building a SSTO again (presuming their new Boeing and Rolls Royce investors agree to it). REL will go where the money is, it really is as simple as that.

Offline libra

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #91 on: 04/08/2019 04:45 am »
They used a J-79 from a Phantom ?

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #92 on: 04/08/2019 06:11 am »
I don't see REL building vehicles Sabre will fly in but a large aerospace companies. Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney don't aircraft for their engines.

Online CameronD

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #93 on: 04/08/2019 06:29 am »
They used a J-79 from a Phantom ?

Cheap, plentiful and has an afterburner (just to spice things up a little, should they choose).  What's not to like?  :)
« Last Edit: 04/08/2019 06:30 am by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #94 on: 04/08/2019 08:09 am »
Quote
Mon, 2019-04-08 08:06 
A key element of the revolutionary SABRE™ air-breathing rocket engine successfully passes the first phase of high-temperature testing. Precooler technology will enable a wide variety of high-speed flight and advanced propulsion systems.

Reaction Engines’ precooler heat exchanger successfully achieved all test objectives in the first phase of high-temperature testing designed to directly replicate supersonic flight conditions and future tests are planned at even higher temperatures.  The precooler is a key element of Reaction Engines’ revolutionary SABRE engine and is a potential enabling technology for advanced propulsion systems and other commercial applications.

The ground-based tests saw Reaction Engines’ unique precooler successfully quench the 420°C (~788°F) intake airflow in less than 1/20th of a second. The intake temperature replicates thermal conditions corresponding to Mach 3.3 flight, or over three times the speed of sound. Mach 3.3 matches the speed record of the SR-71 Blackbird aircraft, the world’s fastest jet-engine powered aircraft produced to date and is over 50% faster than the cruising speed of Concorde.

In the recent tests, the compact precooler achieved all test objectives and achieved 1.5 MW of heat transfer, the equivalent to the energy demand of 1,000 homes; successfully cooling incoming air from a temperature at which hot steel starts to glow. The tests are the first phase in an extensive test programme which will see the precooler test article (HTX) exposed to high-temperature airflow conditions in excess of the 1,000°C (~1800°F) expected during Mach 5 hypersonic flight.

The significant testing milestone occurred at Reaction Engines’ recently commissioned TF2 test facility located at the Colorado Air and Space Port, US. The TF2 test facility has been constructed by Reaction Engines to undertake ground based ‘hot’ testing of its precooler technology. The technology has already passed an extensive range of tests in the UK where its performance was fully validated at ambient air temperatures.

Commenting, Mark Thomas, Chief Executive, Reaction Engines, said:

“This is a hugely significant milestone which has seen Reaction Engines’ proprietary precooler technology achieve unparalleled heat transfer performance. The HTX test article met all test objectives and the successful initial tests highlight how our precooler delivers world-leading heat transfer capabilities at low weight and compact size. This provides an important validation of our heat exchanger and thermal management technology portfolio which has application across emerging areas such as very high-speed flight, hybrid electric aviation and integrated vehicle thermal management.”

To replicate the conditions the precooler will experience at hypersonic speeds, the TF2 test facility uses a General Electric J79 turbojet engine formerly used in a McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom aircraft to provide high-temperature airflow. Engineers at Reaction Engines’ Culham headquarters constructed the HTX precooler test article and after initial testing it was shipped to Colorado at the end of 2018, and ‘hot’ tests commenced in early March 2019.

In addition to the hot precooler tests being conducted in the US, Reaction Engines is in the final stage of constructing its TF1 test facility at Westcott, Buckinghamshire, UK, where it will undertake ground-based testing of a SABRE engine core.  Over the last four years Reaction Engines has raised over £100m from public and private sources and has secured investment from BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce and Boeing HorizonX.

For more information please contact:
Richard Webster-Smith
Finsbury (communications agency)  [email protected] +44 (0)20 7251 3801

Lorraine Fry   
Head of Marketing and Communications, Reaction Engines UK
[email protected] +44 (0) 7827 989 536

Adrian Tansing
Communications Manager, Reaction Engines Inc.
[email protected] +1 970-214-6406

Or visit the Reaction Engines website: www.reactionengines.co.uk
Images of the TF2 test site and HTX test article are available for download here.

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/news/reaction-engines-test-programme-successfully-proves-precooler-capability-supersonic-heat-conditions

Offline JCRM

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #95 on: 04/08/2019 08:55 am »
An animation to explain the HTX test work - does a good job of explaining the nested modules:

https://www.reactionengines.co.uk/application/files/8215/5466/7108/HTX_Assembly_Animation.mp4

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #96 on: 04/08/2019 10:58 am »
Reaction Engines Pre-Cooler Passes Mach 3.3 Test

It has been decades in the making but finally, on March 25 in rural Colorado, Reaction Engines achieved what could prove to be a pivotal moment in the advancement of air-breathing, high-speed propulsion when its pre-cooler technology was successfully tested at conditions representative of over Mach 3.  The breakthrough test—conducted at the company’s newly opened TF2 test facility at Colorado Air and Space Port near Watkins—comes 30 years after Reaction Engines was ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/reaction-engines-pre-cooler-passes-mach-33-test

Offline Lars-J

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #97 on: 04/08/2019 04:43 pm »
I don't see REL building vehicles Sabre will fly in but a large aerospace companies. Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney don't aircraft for their engines.

True, but REL seems to have had delusions about being an engine manufacturer with the engineering plans for what plane someone should build using their engine. (Here's an new engine, let us tell you how to build Skylon with it!)

But they seem to have come to their senses a bit more recently.

Offline t43562

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #98 on: 04/08/2019 08:23 pm »
I don't see REL building vehicles Sabre will fly in but a large aerospace companies. Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney don't aircraft for their engines.

True, but REL seems to have had delusions about being an engine manufacturer with the engineering plans for what plane someone should build using their engine. (Here's an new engine, let us tell you how to build Skylon with it!)

But they seem to have come to their senses a bit more recently.

It would seem obvious to any child that an engine
must be fit for use in something and that if you don't have some existing suitable model then you have to come up with one.  Of course it's inconvenient to consider such a possibility if the object is to make sardonic comments.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2019 08:34 pm by t43562 »

Offline Star One

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (7)
« Reply #99 on: 04/08/2019 08:27 pm »
I don't see REL building vehicles Sabre will fly in but a large aerospace companies. Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney don't aircraft for their engines.

True, but REL seems to have had delusions about being an engine manufacturer with the engineering plans for what plane someone should build using their engine. (Here's an new engine, let us tell you how to build Skylon with it!)

But they seem to have come to their senses a bit more recently.

That’s a slightly unfair way of spinning that.

 

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