Quote from: Jorge on 08/13/2010 01:31 amQuote from: Mr. Justice on 08/13/2010 12:57 amWould a LSAM in left to loiter in Lunar orbit for several months not demonstrate the ability to minimize boil-off just as well as a "depot demonstrator?" It seems like possibly a good 2 for 1 deal. Boiloff is only half of it. Need to demonstrate propellant transfer as well. Simply parking the LSAM would not demonstrate that.Hasn't that been proven with the ISS, MIR and on other occasions.
Quote from: Mr. Justice on 08/13/2010 12:57 amWould a LSAM in left to loiter in Lunar orbit for several months not demonstrate the ability to minimize boil-off just as well as a "depot demonstrator?" It seems like possibly a good 2 for 1 deal. Boiloff is only half of it. Need to demonstrate propellant transfer as well. Simply parking the LSAM would not demonstrate that.
Would a LSAM in left to loiter in Lunar orbit for several months not demonstrate the ability to minimize boil-off just as well as a "depot demonstrator?" It seems like possibly a good 2 for 1 deal.
Quote from: Mr. Justice on 08/13/2010 01:38 amQuote from: Jorge on 08/13/2010 01:31 amQuote from: Mr. Justice on 08/13/2010 12:57 amWould a LSAM in left to loiter in Lunar orbit for several months not demonstrate the ability to minimize boil-off just as well as a "depot demonstrator?" It seems like possibly a good 2 for 1 deal. Boiloff is only half of it. Need to demonstrate propellant transfer as well. Simply parking the LSAM would not demonstrate that.Hasn't that been proven with the ISS, MIR and on other occasions. That depends which sort of propellent that you're talking about. I agree that it is proven with hypergolics. However, I think that Congress and NASA are a lot more interested in cryogenics storage and transfer because of the better Isp.
Glass fibre can replace many types of plastics. Glass fibre is a silicon oxide which is available in large quantities on the Moon. 3D printers can be used to make things like fibre glass plates, equipment cases and insulation for electrical wiring.3D printers can be tested on the earth and so can TRL 5 ISRU fibre optic refining machines suitable for use on the Moon. Producing the pre-prototype machines and CAD designs for "household" goods sounds like tasks suitable for competitions.
ISS uses a bladder-based system with a nitrogen pressurant. Finding a bladder material that can remain flexible at liquid hydrogen temperatures will be a challenge. Likewise nitrogen will freeze at liquid hydrogen temperatures; helium must be used. And the transfer lines must be thermally pre-conditioned, while the ISS system can operate at room temperature.So no, they're going to need to be different. A lot different.
January 10, 2012BOULDER, Colo. – Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. has submitted a mission concept study to NASA for the storage and transfer of cryogenic propellants in space.Ball Aerospace was one of four companies awarded a six-month contract by NASA to develop a mission concept that demonstrates long duration, in-space storage and transfer of cryogenic propellants. Successful development and in-space demonstration of the technology would advance the state of the art that is required for future exploration elements such as large cryogenic propulsion stages. The Ball concept study proposes solutions to close current gaps in technology to achieve that goal.“Ball has provided cryogenic storage technology for every human mission beginning with Gemini,” said Cary Ludtke, vice president of Ball’s Civil and Operational Space business unit. “NASA’s future exploration architecture is well aligned with Ball’s heritage for innovative solutions.”...
Is that the same company that makes canning jars?
This release contains "forward-looking" statements concerning future events and financial performance. Words such as "expects," "anticipates," "estimates" and similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements.
Well, that Ball Aerospace news release was interesting, but I was hoping for a paper on the concept. Anyhow, note the following disclaimer:QuoteThis release contains "forward-looking" statements concerning future events and financial performance. Words such as "expects," "anticipates," "estimates" and similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements.
Quote from: JohnFornaro on 01/11/2012 06:51 pmWell, that Ball Aerospace news release was interesting, but I was hoping for a paper on the concept. Anyhow, note the following disclaimer:QuoteThis release contains "forward-looking" statements ... That disclaimer is in just about every press release ever. Not noteworthy.I was also hoping for a paper...
Well, that Ball Aerospace news release was interesting, but I was hoping for a paper on the concept. Anyhow, note the following disclaimer:QuoteThis release contains "forward-looking" statements ...
This release contains "forward-looking" statements ...
2.1 CRYOTE Core: The subsystem for all CRYOTE mission variants is called the CRYOTE Core and is shown in Figure 2. CRYOTE Core employs a custom, 1,000L LH2/LO2 compatible tank. Solenoid latching valves are employed to facilitate propellant transfer and control of multiple experiments, which are under development by Ball Aerospace and United Launch Alliance (ULA). CRYOTE core resides in an ESPA ring. Support of the tank is provided by low conductivity, Ball Aerospace flight heritage cryogenic struts, mounted in a hexapod arrangement. For initial missions, Ball Aerospace high performance cryogenic multi-layer insulation (MLI),integrated MLI (IMLI), or a combination of the two will be used to provide tank acreage insulation.The tank design is based on Ball Aerospace heritage design and manufacturing processes. The tank can accommodate multiple internal experiments, and has external mounting provisions for experimental hardware. Provisions to the tank design have been included for the incorporation of multiple propellant management device (PMD) technologies as well as zero-g mass gauging sensors such as the NASA Glenn Research Center (GRC) radio frequency technologies and the Sierra Lobo CryoTracker.