Author Topic: Epsilon launch - SPRINT-A, Sept.14, 2013 (0500UTC)  (Read 136161 times)

Offline edkyle99

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #40 on: 03/06/2013 08:35 pm »
You said that a solid rocket motor implies that a rocket is also a missile

No. What I said is that if you don't want your small & cheap launcher to be called a potential SLBM then don't do design similar to SLBMs.

Epsilon is not "similar" to SLBMs.  It is 2.5 meters diameter and 24 meters tall.  By comparison, Bulava is 2 meters diameter and half as tall.  Trident 2 is 2.1 meters diameter and 13.4 meters tall.  Both SLBMs weigh substantially less than Epsilon too.  Bulava weighs less than 40% as much as Epsilon.   

Also, if Epsilon were a weapons development effort, why would Dr. Yasuhiro Morita, Ph.D., a Professor in the Department of Space Systems and Astronautics at the Institute of Space and Astronautical Science/JAXA be the Project Manager?  Dr. Morita has worked on many things at ISAS, including the now-retired M-V rocket, but not missiles - unless you think ISAS is some kind of covert military organization.  (But then, since it has long-worked on solid fueled rockets, it must be military, right?)

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 03/06/2013 08:37 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline R7

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #41 on: 03/06/2013 10:06 pm »
Epsilon is not "similar" to SLBMs

Nowhere claimed it is.

Quote
Also, if Epsilon were a weapons development effort ...

It doesn't matter who leads the project and under what organization, their motives can be utterly peaceful. There are bigger wigs above them and in different govt branches, some with metal on shoulders, who see it beneficial that the inevitable side-product is useable R&D and manufacturing capability for 'other purposes', if need would arise.

If happy smiling peaceful people working in peaceful organization doing peaceful space exploration while at the same time inadvertently doing ICBM related testing seems out of this world then as an example recollect Geminis flying on top of Titan II variants, while at the same time about 60 pretty much the same LVs sat in silos, multimegaton warhead on the nose. Very pragmatic for the those intense times.

Note that I'm not against Japan, Argentina or any country pursuing all-solid/storable designs, knock yourselves out. Just don't act all surprised and shocked if potential fruits for non-peaceful applications are suspected, definitely not my invention nor even a new idea.
AD∑ASTRA∑ASTRORVM∑GRATIA

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #42 on: 03/07/2013 02:02 am »
Epsilon is not "similar" to SLBMs

Nowhere claimed it is.

Quote
Also, if Epsilon were a weapons development effort ...

It doesn't matter who leads the project and under what organization, their motives can be utterly peaceful. There are bigger wigs above them and in different govt branches, some with metal on shoulders, who see it beneficial that the inevitable side-product is useable R&D and manufacturing capability for 'other purposes', if need would arise.

If happy smiling peaceful people working in peaceful organization doing peaceful space exploration while at the same time inadvertently doing ICBM related testing seems out of this world then as an example recollect Geminis flying on top of Titan II variants, while at the same time about 60 pretty much the same LVs sat in silos, multimegaton warhead on the nose. Very pragmatic for the those intense times.

Note that I'm not against Japan, Argentina or any country pursuing all-solid/storable designs, knock yourselves out. Just don't act all surprised and shocked if potential fruits for non-peaceful applications are suspected, definitely not my invention nor even a new idea.
Such activity by Japan with military application as a type of weapon would require a nod or two from the USA because of the military restrictions outlined/imposed in the peace treaty signed by Japan and Allied Forces to conclude WWII.

Offline R7

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #43 on: 03/07/2013 07:45 am »
Such activity by Japan with military application as a type of weapon would require a nod or two from the USA because of the military restrictions outlined/imposed in the peace treaty signed by Japan and Allied Forces to conclude WWII.

I take it you refer to the Article 9.

Quote
"To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained."

The currently existing main battle tanks, destroyers, helicopter carriers, fighter jets etc.etc. are obviously just for ... police patrolling?

As far as xxBM tech is concerned no nods are required as long as you don't create an actual xxBM and 'physics packages'. It is difficult to sanction against ability to build things, especially when such things built slightly differently can be argued to be of purely peaceful nature.
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Offline R7

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #44 on: 03/07/2013 08:23 pm »
I thought you were saying that only solid fuel rockets were likely to become missiles!

Then you ought to reread what's been said!°

Quote
I simply disagree with your belief that solid fuel launch vehicle development implies a hidden missile agenda, especially in the Epsilon case.

Good, then we shall just respectfully disagree on that. But hey do you know anything about the rumored new grain compound than can be remelted/recast? That is interesting. Is it completely new formula, or traditional chemicals mixed with some new twist?
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #45 on: 03/07/2013 10:16 pm »
I thought you were saying that only solid fuel rockets were likely to become missiles!

Then you ought to reread what's been said!°

Quote
I simply disagree with your belief that solid fuel launch vehicle development implies a hidden missile agenda, especially in the Epsilon case.

Good, then we shall just respectfully disagree on that. But hey do you know anything about the rumored new grain compound than can be remelted/recast? That is interesting. Is it completely new formula, or traditional chemicals mixed with some new twist?
Using the word rumor in a statement implies a lack of concrete evidence, a personal opinion, false claim and/or wording that contains multiple meanings and is usually hearsay unless form valid, trusted sources, such as scholarly journals et cetera.

Offline R7

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #46 on: 03/08/2013 04:23 am »
do you know anything about the rumored new grain compound than can be remelted/recast? That is interesting. Is it completely new formula, or traditional chemicals mixed with some new twist?
Using the word rumor in a statement implies a lack of concrete evidence, a personal opinion, false claim and/or wording that contains multiple meanings and is usually hearsay unless form valid, trusted sources, such as scholarly journals et cetera.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rumor

among other meanings:

3 archaic : talk or report of a notable person or event

For me a new more universal solid propellant composition would be a notable event in rocketry. Yeah, archaic expression, does not mean it's illegal to use even today.
AD∑ASTRA∑ASTRORVM∑GRATIA

Offline simonbp

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Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #47 on: 03/10/2013 04:48 pm »
I think if Japan really wanted to to make a ballistic missile, they would just build an obvious ballistic missile and find some self-defense excuse to keep it constitutional. Just like they built an obvious aircraft carrier and then called it a "helicopter-carrying frigate".

On the other hand, if they wanted to build a low-cost space launch vehicle that leverages their solid rocket experience, it would look like exactly what they are building...

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: JAXA's solid fuel "Falcon 1"
« Reply #48 on: 04/08/2013 06:52 am »
Looks like this little rocket is coming up nicely: most of the testing needed has already been wrapped up, with the last ones (e.g. launch pad platform rotation/connection tests, second stage motor case testing etc.) slated to be finished by mid-May. Then a few launch rehersals and the first flight should be ready to go in the summer!

Any Japanese members here can give a more precise date for the first flight than "summer 2013"?  :)

Source: http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/j/topics/topics/2013/0405.shtml
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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #49 on: 04/10/2013 09:07 am »
BTW from Japanese sources that I have seen, the current configuration of Epsilon (known as E-X) will only be used for the first few launches. A new Epsilon Mk.2 (known as E-I) will debut in 2017 with various improvements (non-hypergolic RCS, lighter solid motors, lighter electronics etc.). Has the configuration of E-I been decided yet?
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Offline Skyrocket

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #50 on: 04/10/2013 09:19 am »
BTW from Japanese sources that I have seen, the current configuration of Epsilon (known as E-X) will only be used for the first few launches. A new Epsilon Mk.2 (known as E-I) will debut in 2017 with various improvements (non-hypergolic RCS, lighter solid motors, lighter electronics etc.). Has the configuration of E-I been decided yet?

Do you have a link to the Japanese sources on the new configuration?

Offline Satori

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #51 on: 04/10/2013 10:47 am »
Send a message on the first Epsilon rocket http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/epsilon/index_e.html

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #52 on: 04/18/2013 11:33 am »
The modified launch rotation platform (strengthened to support the heavier 1st stage, lock down of the inclination arm to the vertical position for lower launch acceleration and a new flame duct that reduces noise) has been tested today at KASC, apparently without issue. On the ground facilities side the only test left is the umbilical retraction test (scheduled on next week).

Source
« Last Edit: 04/18/2013 11:38 am by Galactic Penguin SST »
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #53 on: 04/18/2013 05:30 pm »
what's that seen on Ex103,jpg? A mechanical model?

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #54 on: 04/18/2013 05:32 pm »
what's that seen on Ex103,jpg? A mechanical model?

The one on the left or on the right?
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #55 on: 04/18/2013 06:28 pm »
what's that seen on Ex103,jpg? A mechanical model?

The one on the left or on the right?

On the right. It looks like a nozzle model.
It can be also seen on the left on d1640.jpg

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #56 on: 04/18/2013 06:41 pm »
what's that seen on Ex103,jpg? A mechanical model?

The one on the left or on the right?

On the right. It looks like a nozzle model.
It can be also seen on the left on d1640.jpg

That's a mass model simulating the mass of the rocket I think.
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Offline Fuji

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #57 on: 04/19/2013 12:15 am »
what's that seen on Ex103,jpg? A mechanical model?

The one on the left or on the right?

On the right. It looks like a nozzle model.
It can be also seen on the left on d1640.jpg

That's a mass model simulating the mass of the rocket I think.

M-V Ground Test Vehicle.

Offline yoichi

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Offline Prober

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Re: Epsilon Space Launch Vehicle
« Reply #59 on: 04/20/2013 03:00 pm »
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

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