I think it unlikely that Antares will aim for substantial EELV work, if any. It's next step is to upgrade to 7 tonnes LEO/ISS for CRS-2. Replacing Castor 30XL with a hydrogen upper stage on that rocket would allow it to boost maybe 5 tonnes to GTO, which would only enter the low end of the EELV range. Orbital is probably more interested in a 3 tonne class GTO payload capability, which matches its satellite catalog. - Ed Kyle
Quote from: edkyle99 on 04/30/2014 06:50 pmI think it unlikely that Antares will aim for substantial EELV work, if any. It's next step is to upgrade to 7 tonnes LEO/ISS for CRS-2. Replacing Castor 30XL with a hydrogen upper stage on that rocket would allow it to boost maybe 5 tonnes to GTO, which would only enter the low end of the EELV range. Orbital is probably more interested in a 3 tonne class GTO payload capability, which matches its satellite catalog. - Ed KyleWhat about increased first stage thrust and a (larger than currently planned) BTS?For CRS-2 they need to wring "only" another 1 - 1.5 tonnes out of it.
And given that ATK has been wanting to have an EELV class LV commercial vehicle visa vi Liberty and Liberty 2, could this mean something along that lines to compete with SpaceX, ULA, and ArianeSpace?
Where is this fantasy that OrbitalATK would build its own NK-33 coming from?
Here's my guess for a composite solid motor Antares, including a growth version for CRS-2 missions. Replacing the Castor 30XL third stage of the growth version with an equal mass liquid hydrogen stage gets 4.8 tonnes to GTO (GEO-1,500 m/s) or 3.1 tonnes to escape velocity, or maybe more than 12 tonnes to LEO.For the growth version, I assumed essentially equal motors for the first two stages, similar to Athena 2, Minotaur 6, Shavit-3, etc. - Ed Kyle
Sorry ,Ed don't think you thinking big enough .....this is the direction they might be going with Antares as the Center core.
Quote from: Prober on 05/01/2014 02:28 amSorry ,Ed don't think you thinking big enough .....this is the direction they might be going with Antares as the Center core.Huh? That is an SLS competitor and not EELV competitor. They aren't going in that direction
Quote from: Lars_J on 04/30/2014 08:36 pmWhere is this fantasy that OrbitalATK would build its own NK-33 coming from?What makes it a fantasy?Remember SpaceX built Merlin's out of the Fastrac design. You saying ATK can't manufacture?
Try this: given Antares for the cots contract wished to use only one AJ-26.
Where is this fantasy that OrbitalATK would build its own NK-33 coming from?I think anyone who has ever built and fired a LPRE of any complexity is scratching their heads in bemusement at your insistence that ATK could just reverse engineer an NK-33 and get it into production post-haste. ~Jon
Quote from: Prober on 05/01/2014 02:01 pmTry this: given Antares for the cots contract wished to use only one AJ-26. Actually, one outcome might be to use ATK motors for SRBs, and cut back the Antares core to 1 NK-33, that would allow Orbital to get more flights out of its current stockpile of engines.The question is whether Wallops could accommodate a vehicle with large SRBs.
Quote from: Lobo on 04/30/2014 06:01 pmAnd given that ATK has been wanting to have an EELV class LV commercial vehicle visa vi Liberty and Liberty 2, could this mean something along that lines to compete with SpaceX, ULA, and ArianeSpace?ATK has shown zero interest in actually spending their own money on Liberty. What they wanted was to convince the government to pay for development of Liberty.There's nothing about the merger with Orbital that changes this calculus. If developing Liberty on their own dime makes sense after the merger, it would have made sense before the merger and ATK would already be doing it, which they're not.SpaceX is putting tremendous price pressure on this market right now. Why would a new entrant want to invest a huge amount to get into a business that is overcrowded and unattractive?Antares is different because the investment level is much less, the government paid much of that investment, and the government is willing to pay far more to keep Antares in the commercial cargo business than SpaceX charges just for the sake of having a second player. None of that applies to the heavier EELV-class market.
Let me correct you right there.......I'm talking a clone engine, not a reverse engineered engine. Its a whole different ball game, that I'm sure many don't understand as yet.