Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : Formosat-5 : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Aug 24, 2017 : DISCUSSION  (Read 267227 times)

Offline JamesH65

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No bragging. This is just the first round in prepping all of us for a surprise.

Is this your judgement, or do you know something?   ???

In my dreams, the roomba thingy on the ASDS will start catching legless F-9 first stages soon.

Matthew

In your dreams, does the Roomba with all its exposed hydraulic pipes etc in the exhaust wash, catch fire and melt?

Offline woods170

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No bragging. This is just the first round in prepping all of us for a surprise.

Is this your judgement, or do you know something?   ???
This is my informed judgement.

Offline matthewkantar

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No bragging. This is just the first round in prepping all of us for a surprise.

Is this your judgement, or do you know something?   ???

In my dreams, the roomba thingy on the ASDS will start catching legless F-9 first stages soon.

Matthew

In your dreams, does the Roomba with all its exposed hydraulic pipes etc in the exhaust wash, catch fire and melt?

It's clear to me that the thingy is not designed for catching a hot rocket, was chewing on the idea of catching an unmodified stage.

Matthew

Offline Oersted

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It would actually fit well with SpaceX's genius for doing research on paid commercial launches if they start experimenting with F9 first stage cradle landings. Great thinking outside the box, Matthew.

A question: do you guys and girls think there is a chance that we will see footage of the Formosat first stage landing?

Offline Comga

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Bad news. First image shows Formosat-5 is out of focus
http://news.ltn.com.tw/news/focus/paper/1136494

It is not clear from the mechanical translation if the imager can be refocused on orbit.
Keeping a camera focused through launch and orbital operations is difficult. 
If they have control of the satellite, including pointing and commanding, and can downlink image data, that's not terrible for a first try.
They can buy any images they need.  They can't get this kind of experience without a learning curve.

PS $5.6B Taiwan ~ $190M US
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline SmallKing

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Bad news. First image shows Formosat-5 is out of focus
http://news.ltn.com.tw/news/focus/paper/1136494

It is not clear from the mechanical translation if the imager can be refocused on orbit.
Keeping a camera focused through launch and orbital operations is difficult. 
If they have control of the satellite, including pointing and commanding, and can downlink image data, that's not terrible for a first try.
They can buy any images they need.  They can't get this kind of experience without a learning curve.

PS $5.6B Taiwan ~ $190M US
Sure, they can control the satellite. But the earlier news reported that refocusing may be hard.

The following news said it still has the hope of saving back http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2017-09-19/doc-ifykynia8224636.shtml
Some are bound for happiness, some are bound to glory, some are bound to live with less, who can tell your story?

Offline Comga

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Bad news. First image shows Formosat-5 is out of focus
http://news.ltn.com.tw/news/focus/paper/1136494

It is not clear from the mechanical translation if the imager can be refocused on orbit.
Keeping a camera focused through launch and orbital operations is difficult. 
If they have control of the satellite, including pointing and commanding, and can downlink image data, that's not terrible for a first try.
They can buy any images they need.  They can't get this kind of experience without a learning curve.

PS $5.6B Taiwan ~ $190M US
Sure, they can control the satellite. But the earlier news reported that refocusing may be hard.

The following news said it still has the hope of saving back http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2017-09-19/doc-ifykynia8224636.shtml

"Hard" means not impossible, as in they have some way to effect focus.
My reading says that they tried once and made little or no improvement.
We will see if they can keep adjusting until they get good, or at least better, images. 
But as I said, it's not easy, and they have gotten pretty far towards their goal.

The mechanical translation did use the word "punish".  Let's hope they have more productive feedback for those who built the systems.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Comga

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More details
FormoSat-5 images out of focus; adjustment may take months: NARLabs
Quote
Taipei, Sept. 19 (CNA) The first photos taken by Taiwan's FormoSat-5 satellite were fuzzy and marred by light spots, which were caused by a focusing problem on the satellite's remote sensing instrument (RSI), the designer National Applied Research Laboratories (NARLabs) said Tuesday

The NT$5.6 billion (US$186 million) FormoSat-5, which was launched in the United States Aug. 25 aboard a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, is designed to capture panchromatic images with a resolution of up to two meters per pixel, and multispectral images with a resolution of four meters per pixel.

However, the first images of Earth taken by the RSI were blurry and those of urban areas were marred by light spots, Yu Shiann-jeng (余憲政), deputy chief of NARLabs' National Space Organization (NSPO), confirmed in the wake of local media reports on the issue.

Yu said that after days of observation, the NSPO had concluded that there was a problem with the RSI's focusing function and was trying to make some adjustments.

Regarding the light spots on the images, he said the NSPO was trying to adjust the position and interior temperature of the satellite, among other measures being taken to solve the problem.

The NSPO will also compare the images taken by FormoSat-5 and its predecessor FormoSat-2, using software to improve the former's image resolution, Yu said.

Meanwhile, NARLabs Vice President Wu Kuang-chong (吳光鐘) said the initial testing of FormoSat-5 will take time.

"The current assessment is that the image adjustment will take about two to three months to complete," he said.

FormoSat-5, a 450-kg octagonal shape mini-satellite that is 2.8 meters in height and 1.6 meters in diameter, was designed and built by the NSPO.

The satellite's mission is to advance and demonstrate Taiwan's indigenous space technology in the field of remote sensing satellites, to continue to serve global imagery users previously served by FormoSat-2, and to promote domestic space science research, according to the NSPO.

FormoSat-5 carries an optical remote sensing payload and a science payload to execute remote sensing missions and perform science research, respectively.

(By Huang Li-yun and Elizabeth Hsu)
Enditem/pc
http://m.focustaiwan.tw/news/ast/201709190014.aspx

This does not seem so much like "bad news" as engineering and learning curve.
The image projected behind the person doesn't look so bad, and that "bright spot" is curiously aligned with the pattern on the ground.
We shall see what they can do with the imager given some time.
« Last Edit: 09/19/2017 09:23 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Jdeshetler

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Boy, it's not easy to watch this not so great news coming out. I hope they can find a solution thru remote troubleshooting.

Three of NSFer included myself were with Senior Formosat-5 team at the media launch viewing site when the Falcon 9 - Formosat-5 took off as shown in this Taiwan media link below. They were all pumped up and excited to see their long overdue baby take off.

http://www.ttv.com.tw/videocity/video_play.asp?id=288074
« Last Edit: 09/20/2017 03:22 am by Jdeshetler »

Offline ionzide

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FormoSat-5 may allow earthquake prediction in the future: scientist

Quote
Taipei, Jan. 24 (CNA) Taiwan's FormoSat-5 satellite detected changes in the ionospheric days before a major earthquake in the Middle East last November, which bodes well for the prediction of quakes in the future, a Taiwanese scientist said Wednesday.

The data collected by FormoSat-5 on the changes in the ionosphere before the earthquake last November indicates that the satellite is world-class in terms of precision and speed, said Liu, a space physics scientist.

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/ast/201801240022.aspx

Offline deruch

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Dubious.  Besides the fact that I'm not really sure on how an imminent earthquake would be affecting the ionosphere, foreknowledge of a quake isn't enough.  You'd also have to know where it was going to occur.  Just knowing there's going to be an earthquake tomorrow doesn't help much if I can't tell the difference between an earthquake in Los Angeles and one in Lahore, Pakistan.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online somepitch

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Dubious.  Besides the fact that I'm not really sure on how an imminent earthquake would be affecting the ionosphere, foreknowledge of a quake isn't enough.  You'd also have to know where it was going to occur.  Just knowing there's going to be an earthquake tomorrow doesn't help much if I can't tell the difference between an earthquake in Los Angeles and one in Lahore, Pakistan.

https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/ionospheric-charge-could-forewarn-earthquakes

Offline Swedish chef

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https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/2017SW001738
Quote
On 24 August 2017, a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket departed from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, carrying Taiwan's FORMOSAT‐5 Earth observation satellite into orbit. The lightly weighted solo payload enables the rocket to fly a lofted trajectory for direct insertion at the mission altitude of 720 km. This unique nearly vertical trajectory is different from the usual satellite launches that the rockets fly over horizontal trajectory and insert satellites at 200 km altitude followed by orbit maneuvers to its mission altitudes. Consequently, the rocket launch generated a gigantic circular shock wave in the ionosphere covering a wide area four times greater than California. It is followed by ionospheric hole (plasma depletions) due to rapid chemical reactions of rocket exhaust plumes and ionospheric plasma. The ionospheric hole causing large spatial gradients could lead to ~1 m range errors into GPS navigation and positioning system. Understanding how the rocket launches affect our upper atmosphere and space environment is important as these anthropogenic space weather events are expected to increase at an enormous rate in the near future.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
SpaceX launch last year punched huge, temporary hole in the ionosphere
Rocket launches act somewhat like a small volcano eruption.

by Eric Berger - Mar 22, 2018 2:42pm GMT

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/spacex-launch-last-year-punched-huge-temporary-hole-in-the-ionosphere/

Offline rsdavis9

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/2017SW001738
Quote
On 24 August 2017, a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket departed from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, carrying Taiwan's FORMOSAT‐5 Earth observation satellite into orbit. The lightly weighted solo payload enables the rocket to fly a lofted trajectory for direct insertion at the mission altitude of 720 km. This unique nearly vertical trajectory is different from the usual satellite launches that the rockets fly over horizontal trajectory and insert satellites at 200 km altitude followed by orbit maneuvers to its mission altitudes. Consequently, the rocket launch generated a gigantic circular shock wave in the ionosphere covering a wide area four times greater than California. It is followed by ionospheric hole (plasma depletions) due to rapid chemical reactions of rocket exhaust plumes and ionospheric plasma. The ionospheric hole causing large spatial gradients could lead to ~1 m range errors into GPS navigation and positioning system. Understanding how the rocket launches affect our upper atmosphere and space environment is important as these anthropogenic space weather events are expected to increase at an enormous rate in the near future.

Its my understanding that the ionosphere causes delays in the propagation speed of radio signals. Basically the free electron density changes the speed. In more advanced gps receivers they can adjust for this propagation delay by using 2 frequencies since the propagation delay is different depending on frequency. They could then get a direct measure of the propagation delay for the signal path to the satellite. If the ionosphere delay is left uncorrected it can amount to as much as 100m.
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