Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : Formosat-5 : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Aug 24, 2017 : DISCUSSION  (Read 267217 times)

Offline SpacexULA

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Anyway, we can safely assume that not all of the 5 flights would be before 2013 but more like 1 Orbcomm flight every 12 months.

Why would you assume such a low flight rate?  The Falcon 1 for Flight 5 was in Kwajalein 3 months after Flight 4 in August 2007, but was delayed due to integration issues.  Hopefully they have grown past that and can get down to a 3/4 month gap between vehicles.

Between that and it would be nice for them to be able to test the block 2 Merlin several times on Falcon 1 before rolling the dice on a COTS flight.
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Offline kevin-rf

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SpaceX is not the only factor that sets the flight rate. How fast can the Orbcomm birds be manufactured?
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Offline ugordan

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Between that and it would be nice for them to be able to test the block 2 Merlin several times on Falcon 1 before rolling the dice on a COTS flight.

It wouldn't be any more dicey than the flight 11 days ago.

Offline SpacexULA

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Between that and it would be nice for them to be able to test the block 2 Merlin several times on Falcon 1 before rolling the dice on a COTS flight.
It wouldn't be any more dicey than the flight 11 days ago.

:) Absolutely agreed.  But a good chunk of the reason Falcon 9 went so well was the 3 suboptimal Falcon 1 flights.  Best 20-30 Million any aerospace firm has ever put at the bottom of the ocean.

My only point is better to let a Falcon 1 carry the test risk than a Falcon 9, especially considering the payloads Falcon 9 will be carrying for the next few years.
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline simonth

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Anyway, we can safely assume that not all of the 5 flights would be before 2013 but more like 1 Orbcomm flight every 12 months.

Why would you assume such a low flight rate?
Because that correlates with the contract. First launch period in 2010, the fifth launch period in 2014. The most realistic distribution between is one flight in 2011, 2012 and 2013 each.

Offline ugordan

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My only point is better to let a Falcon 1 carry the test risk than a Falcon 9, especially considering the payloads Falcon 9 will be carrying for the next few years.

I still don't see the reason why anything other than a CRS flight should take the risk of flying the first Block 2.

1) There's nine engines there so there's engine out
2) CRS flights won't max out a F9 anyway
3) "toilet paper, t-shirts and tang" aren't high priority payloads

Better to test a F9 Block 2 on a CRS flight and still very likely get the mission done than risk a say GTO payload that's more likely to max out F9 performance margin.

They'll accumulate a couple of thousand seconds of firing time on an engine upgrade before committing it to flight, so the risk wouldn't really be that high, anyway. There are still remaining risks with the basic F9 vehicle that won't be completely settled until at least they have several flights under their belt.

Offline SpacexULA

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They'll accumulate a couple of thousand seconds of firing time on an engine upgrade before committing it to flight, so the risk wouldn't really be that high, anyway. There are still remaining risks with the basic F9 vehicle that won't be completely settled until at least they have several flights under their belt.

Thanks for the explanation.  I see your point.
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Offline Robotbeat

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My only point is better to let a Falcon 1 carry the test risk than a Falcon 9, especially considering the payloads Falcon 9 will be carrying for the next few years.

I still don't see the reason why anything other than a CRS flight should take the risk of flying the first Block 2.
...
What exactly IS a block-2 Falcon 9 versus block 1? Does anyone even know?

I think it's going to be flown rather soon. I bet you SpaceX is already manufacturing their first block 2 Falcon 9.
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Offline docmordrid

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Increased performance mainly due to engine improvements. IIRC the total first stage thrust of the block 1 was ~800,000 lb/ft while the block 2 is 1,110,000 lb/ft

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9.html#config
« Last Edit: 06/15/2010 08:17 pm by docmordrid »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Increased performance mainly due to engine improvements. IIRC the total first stage thrust of the block 1 was ~800,000 lb/ft while the block 2 is 1,110,000 lb/ft

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9.html#config
Right, but it seems to me that even that website doesn't have terribly good sources for its information. It doesn't seem to me that SpaceX is even selling launch services for its block 1 Falcon 9.
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Offline docmordrid

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Dunno about that....

Quote
Falcon 9 Block 2 (Merlin 1C+)
2010 and Later

Might as well ride your best horse.
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Offline zaitcev

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Why would you assume such a low flight rate?  The Falcon 1 for Flight 5 was in Kwajalein 3 months after Flight 4 in August 2007, but was delayed due to integration issues.  Hopefully they have grown past that and can get down to a 3/4 month gap between vehicles.
The question is how people and the equipment were assigned between the F-1 and F-9 lines. Without any insider information I cannot be sure, but Elon probably relocates workers from task to task, even if F1 is given a degree of autonomy within the company. F1 program will be starved if the management attention is concentrated on high-profile flights of Dragon to ISS.

Offline daver

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http://www.kcoy.com/global/story.asp?s=12655134

"Neither company would say how many Falcon 9 launches would be required to put the satellites into low-Earth orbit from Vandenberg Air Force Base."




Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Well, we can struck this one off the 2015 launch manifest: according to a Taiwan newspaper it isn't going to launch till Q1 of 2016.

Then again, this is the 1st EO satellite ever to be assembled in Taiwan, so it really needs more time...
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Offline dorkmo

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Well, we can struck this one off the 2015 launch manifest: according to a Taiwan newspaper it isn't going to launch till Q1 of 2016.

Then again, this is the 1st EO satellite ever to be assembled in Taiwan, so it really needs more time...

"The satellite is expected to find the connection between ion concentration in the ionosphere and earthquakes."

sounds like theyre testing the consipracy theories for the HAARP project lulz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program#Conspiracy_theories

Offline docmordrid

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Well, we can struck this one off the 2015 launch manifest: according to a Taiwan newspaper it isn't going to launch till Q1 of 2016.

Then again, this is the 1st EO satellite ever to be assembled in Taiwan, so it really needs more time...

"The satellite is expected to find the connection between ion concentration in the ionosphere and earthquakes."

sounds like theyre testing the consipracy theories for the HAARP project lulz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program#Conspiracy_theories

Sounds more like they're testing the theory that as the earthquake risk rises piezoelectric effects in the tectonic plates cause atmospheric ionization. If so it could aid earthquake predictions.
 
« Last Edit: 01/29/2015 06:28 pm by docmordrid »
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Offline mtakala24

The first Finnish satellite project, Aalto-1 3U cubesat, is being quoted in several Finnish media as launching December 2015 on SpaceX rocket carrying a remote sensing satellite and possibly a record amount of other cubesats. Could it be this launch?

edit: It cannot be one of the SAOCOM sats, as the launch is quoted as being performed from Cape Canaveral, and both SAOCOMs on SpaceX:s manifest are from Vandenberg. The launch also might be the STP-2 launch, but that has been pushed back to 2016 for a long time now.
« Last Edit: 05/15/2015 01:04 pm by mtakala24 »

Offline Jarnis

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I'm fairly sure Aalto-1 will be on the STP-2 because the duration is quoted to be two years. You don't get two year mission out of a Cubesat dropped to low LEO. Lightsail 1 is also on STP-2 specifically because it offers unusually high orbit for a Cubesat ride.

Edit: or if not STP-2, then some other ride that would offer a high enough orbit for a 3U cubesat to stay up for two years...
« Last Edit: 05/15/2015 02:31 pm by Jarnis »

Offline deruch

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The first Finnish satellite project, Aalto-1 3U cubesat, is being quoted in several Finnish media as launching December 2015 on SpaceX rocket carrying a remote sensing satellite and possibly a record amount of other cubesats. Could it be this launch?

edit: It cannot be one of the SAOCOM sats, as the launch is quoted as being performed from Cape Canaveral, and both SAOCOMs on SpaceX:s manifest are from Vandenberg. The launch also might be the STP-2 launch, but that has been pushed back to 2016 for a long time now.

1.4. FORMOSAT-5 Satellite Characteristics
The FORMOSAT-5 satellite is expected to have the following characteristics:
􀁺 Mission Orbit: 720 km circular, sun synchronous
􀁺 Parking Orbit: 720 km circular, 98.28 degree inclination
􀁺 Satellite Lift-off (Wet) Weight: no more than 525 kg
􀁺 Mission Life: 5 years minimum

Sounds like Falcon 1e, good call Chris
Formosat-5 is going to sun-synchronous orbit.  With initial parking orbit inclined at 98.28 degrees, Vandenberg is only possibility (unless they want to launch from Kwaj.  ;D)
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Offline Skyrocket

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The first Finnish satellite project, Aalto-1 3U cubesat, is being quoted in several Finnish media as launching December 2015 on SpaceX rocket carrying a remote sensing satellite and possibly a record amount of other cubesats. Could it be this launch?

edit: It cannot be one of the SAOCOM sats, as the launch is quoted as being performed from Cape Canaveral, and both SAOCOMs on SpaceX:s manifest are from Vandenberg. The launch also might be the STP-2 launch, but that has been pushed back to 2016 for a long time now.

1.4. FORMOSAT-5 Satellite Characteristics
The FORMOSAT-5 satellite is expected to have the following characteristics:
􀁺 Mission Orbit: 720 km circular, sun synchronous
􀁺 Parking Orbit: 720 km circular, 98.28 degree inclination
􀁺 Satellite Lift-off (Wet) Weight: no more than 525 kg
􀁺 Mission Life: 5 years minimum

Sounds like Falcon 1e, good call Chris
Formosat-5 is going to sun-synchronous orbit.  With initial parking orbit inclined at 98.28 degrees, Vandenberg is only possibility (unless they want to launch from Kwaj.  ;D)

Formosat-5 will launch from Vandenberg, currently planned for December 2015.

Among the Cubesats on this mission are Arkyd-6, a TBD number of NASA sponsored cubesats (​ELaNa-XIII) and the South Korean  CNUSail 1, KAUSAT 5, SIGMA, CANYVAL-X 1, CANYVAL-X 2, STEP Cube Lab cubesats.

Possibly on board are 20 cubesats from Spire Global (not yet confirmed).


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