Quote from: Apollo22 on 06/29/2025 03:29 pmTransporteur Aérospatial / Aerospace Transporter were a bunch of RLV / TSTO studies done in the mid-1960's by Eurospace, which still exists and is a lose association of big european aerospace companies. That peculiar Hermes- look-alike orbiter was to be attached to a Centaur -like hydrolox stage, the whole stack dropped at Mach 6 by a "super Concorde", to be built by Dassault. VERA was something else entirely. It was very much France own ASSET and while it did not flew a ground model was thermal tested. Test flights would have used a Diamant first stage, that is a L17 - 17 tons of liquid propellants - Emeraude or Améthyste.VERAS article. https://web.archive.org/web/20130508142014/https://www.anciensonera.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers%20pdf/Bulletin_AAO_Hors-Serie-Espace.pdf
Transporteur Aérospatial / Aerospace Transporter were a bunch of RLV / TSTO studies done in the mid-1960's by Eurospace, which still exists and is a lose association of big european aerospace companies. That peculiar Hermes- look-alike orbiter was to be attached to a Centaur -like hydrolox stage, the whole stack dropped at Mach 6 by a "super Concorde", to be built by Dassault. VERA was something else entirely. It was very much France own ASSET and while it did not flew a ground model was thermal tested. Test flights would have used a Diamant first stage, that is a L17 - 17 tons of liquid propellants - Emeraude or Améthyste.
In 1963, Eugen Sänger, became head of the Eurospace organisation which promoted the 'AeroSpace Transporter'. In response to a Eurospace call, aircraft makers in France, Germany and UK designed recoverable, winged spacecraft. From 1964 to 1970 the French government led studies to evaluate the feasibility of the concept.Those studies, under the leadership of the French Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales (CNES), coalesced into the Hermes spaceplane which was then adopted by the European Space Agency. In parallel, Germany and UK proposed fully recoverable designs while other countries, including Japan, India and Russia came to CNES to share ideas about spaceplane design. Unfortunately Hermes was never launched and by 1994 was abandoned after many alternative propositions were discussed.This book relates the story of these remarkable concepts, crossovers between aircraft and spacecraft beginning with the 'antipodal bomber' of 1944 and continuing to Aerospatiale STS-2000 project through the Transporteur Aero-Spatial, VERAS, AW Pyramid, Bumerang, Sänger II, HOTOL, Hermes, and Taranis. Non-European projects like Dyna-Soar, Hyperplane, HOPE, and MAKS are also be covered. It provides a fascinating and detailed account of these projects which, being half-way between aircraft and spacecraft, have hitherto often been therefore often neglected by aviation writers and historians
While there was European interest in these X-20 Dyna-Soar-like spaceplanes, I have not seen VERAS mentioned in EUROSPACE proceedings from 1963 to about 1966.
Hi, We called it "Transporteur Aérospatial".
And VERAS was something else entirely - unrelated. Best way to put it Transporteur Aérospatial = Aerospaceplane VERAS = ASSET ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASSET_(spacecraft) ) Aerospaceplane =/= DynaSoar =/= ASSET. Same story for Transporteur Aérospatial and VERAS.
Nord Aviation (public company, later fused with Sud aviation in to SNIAS, then Aérospatiale) did VERAS but earlier on, they also had Transporteur Aérospatial studies.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/various-dassault-jet-projects-and-prototypes.15791/https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-tsto-studies-of-the-60s.4096/https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-secret-projects-3.29611/page-2
QuoteWhile there was European interest in these X-20 Dyna-Soar-like spaceplanes, I have not seen VERAS mentioned in EUROSPACE proceedings from 1963 to about 1966. It's because 1-Eurospace was a loose association of European aerospace companies 2-VERAS was 100% french 3-And funded mostly by the military, hence it produced very few public papers. 4-I think it also came after 1966, but I have to check the dates.
Be my guest. Btw, you should really join this forum, it's an amazing place. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ Your extensive space research will probably be much appreciated there too.
I have to partly agree, but that's because Statler an Waldorf keep arguing and arguing again.
Quote from: TheKutKu on 06/30/2025 11:55 amQuote from: Apollo22 on 06/29/2025 03:29 pmTransporteur Aérospatial / Aerospace Transporter were a bunch of RLV / TSTO studies done in the mid-1960's by Eurospace, which still exists and is a lose association of big european aerospace companies. That peculiar Hermes- look-alike orbiter was to be attached to a Centaur -like hydrolox stage, the whole stack dropped at Mach 6 by a "super Concorde", to be built by Dassault. VERA was something else entirely. It was very much France own ASSET and while it did not flew a ground model was thermal tested. Test flights would have used a Diamant first stage, that is a L17 - 17 tons of liquid propellants - Emeraude or Améthyste.VERAS article. https://web.archive.org/web/20130508142014/https://www.anciensonera.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers%20pdf/Bulletin_AAO_Hors-Serie-Espace.pdfNote that Eugen Sänger in about 1963 was in a leading position at Eurospace, including subgroup Spaceplane, which presumably relates to their study of spaceplanes. So far, the impression is that after his death in 1964 the spaceplane discussion at Eurospace also stops. The Eurospace reports/memoranda titled "Aerospace Transporter" from October 1964 and "Memorandum: A proposal for a Feasibility Study of an Aerospace Transporter System", March 1965, are reports that I could not locate and read so far.
In any case, I will have to prioritize reading the book "French Secret Projects 3: French and European Spaceplane Designs 1964-1994"
Quote from: leovinus on 07/13/2025 02:35 pmQuote from: TheKutKu on 06/30/2025 11:55 amQuote from: Apollo22 on 06/29/2025 03:29 pmTransporteur Aérospatial / Aerospace Transporter were a bunch of RLV / TSTO studies done in the mid-1960's by Eurospace, which still exists and is a lose association of big european aerospace companies. That peculiar Hermes- look-alike orbiter was to be attached to a Centaur -like hydrolox stage, the whole stack dropped at Mach 6 by a "super Concorde", to be built by Dassault. VERA was something else entirely. It was very much France own ASSET and while it did not flew a ground model was thermal tested. Test flights would have used a Diamant first stage, that is a L17 - 17 tons of liquid propellants - Emeraude or Améthyste.VERAS article. https://web.archive.org/web/20130508142014/https://www.anciensonera.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers%20pdf/Bulletin_AAO_Hors-Serie-Espace.pdfNote that Eugen Sänger in about 1963 was in a leading position at Eurospace, including subgroup Spaceplane, which presumably relates to their study of spaceplanes. So far, the impression is that after his death in 1964 the spaceplane discussion at Eurospace also stops. The Eurospace reports/memoranda titled "Aerospace Transporter" from October 1964 and "Memorandum: A proposal for a Feasibility Study of an Aerospace Transporter System", March 1965, are reports that I could not locate and read so far.Some progress. I have a copy now of the Eurospace reports/memoranda titled "Aerospace Transporter" from October 1964 but am still chasing the second document the "Memorandum: A proposal for a Feasibility Study of an Aerospace Transporter System", March 1965
In 1964, when Frank Sinatra sang “Fly Me to the Moon,” he was not entirely sure whether he wanted to ride a rocket or a spaceplane but it was clear was that he counted on a first-class ticket. The dream to fly into space on an airplane is old. In the last 100 years, the most well-known concepts include Eugen Sänger’s 1933 “Amerika-Bomber” and later “Silbervogel” followed by many similar concepts from the 1950s and later. [17, 34]
I wrote up some thoughts after sleuthing through the European archives. This is part one. Happy reading.EUROSPACE and the European spaceplane (part 1)https://www.thespacereview.com/article/5084/1QuoteIn 1964, when Frank Sinatra sang “Fly Me to the Moon,” he was not entirely sure whether he wanted to ride a rocket or a spaceplane but it was clear was that he counted on a first-class ticket. The dream to fly into space on an airplane is old. In the last 100 years, the most well-known concepts include Eugen Sänger’s 1933 “Amerika-Bomber” and later “Silbervogel” followed by many similar concepts from the 1950s and later. [17, 34]
The company’s involvement in launch infrastructure development in French Guiana also extends to the new multi-user commercial ELM facility being built on the grounds of the former Diamant launch pad
The news of OHB Establishes the European Spaceport Company included a note QuoteThe company’s involvement in launch infrastructure development in French Guiana also extends to the new multi-user commercial ELM facility being built on the grounds of the former Diamant launch pad I did not realize that the "Diamant" pad was still around. Kind of begs the question what other, old facilities are still in French Guiana.
Quote from: leovinus on 11/13/2025 01:31 pmThe news of OHB Establishes the European Spaceport Company included a note QuoteThe company’s involvement in launch infrastructure development in French Guiana also extends to the new multi-user commercial ELM facility being built on the grounds of the former Diamant launch pad I did not realize that the "Diamant" pad was still around. Kind of begs the question what other, old facilities are still in French Guiana.The old Diamant pad was a little appart from the Europa / Ariane area. Itself a larger distance from the peculiar Soyuz launch complex (the Soyuz flame trench was carved into granite : tedious job !). Kourou hasn't as many rocket pads as The Cape, but still it's a burgeonning space coast. Diamant launch area stopped being used after September 1975 and the last Diamant launch. France canned Diamant to fund L3S, better known as Ariane 1. CNES budget was being curtailed at a time when France got Ariane running in 73' by paying 60% of the development costs. Some pictures taken in 2000. http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_europeen/CSG/ELD/ELD.htmIt stood abandonned for 40 years, 1976 - 2016.
