Capcom espace is a good old French website. Online translation of the Europe entry. https://www-capcomespace-net.translate.goog/dossiers/espace_europeen/index.htm?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr
https://www.esa.int/About_Us/ESA_Publications/ESA_historical_publications
What I would love is a complete set of the ESRO/ELDO Bulletin (precursor to ESA Bulletin).I only have a handful of issues.
Quote from: jcm on 05/05/2024 05:04 pmWhat I would love is a complete set of the ESRO/ELDO Bulletin (precursor to ESA Bulletin).I only have a handful of issues.How many issues are there? I can find that sets of "#1 to #27/1968 to 1975" are not uncommon in european libraries.
Quote from: leovinus on 04/29/2024 04:50 pm Possibly also "The European Space Tug: a Reappraisal 1981" but the JBIS website does not have the article it seems.https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981JBIS...34..294S/abstractBy the way, I know someone found this for you but in case you or others aren't aware a pretty complete set of JBIS has now joined Spaceflight on archive.org (runs to 2015 iirc).Some fun stuff on Europa II and III for example, e.g. Jan 1970 edition https://archive.org/details/sim_journal-of-the-british-interplanetary-society_january-december-1970_23 has designs for a Europa II with large solids (edit: actually not solids, addiitional Blue Streaks-Delta IV stylee) (see grabs). As with many things on there you need to sign in (I use Google), and the pages don't come out v high res with screen grabbers, but it's OK for browsing imho until BIS does its own scans.
Possibly also "The European Space Tug: a Reappraisal 1981" but the JBIS website does not have the article it seems.https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981JBIS...34..294S/abstract
Quote from: jcm on 05/05/2024 05:04 pmWhat I would love is a complete set of the ESRO/ELDO Bulletin (precursor to ESA Bulletin).I only have a handful of issues.Good question. Though offline, most of the bulletins should be a Library of Congress https://lccn.loc.gov/76645743> English and French.> Issues for May 1968-<Feb. 1972> issued with European Organisation for the Development and Construction of Space Vehicle Launchers under its variant name: European Space Vehicle Launcher Development Organisation.Anniversary issue here https://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/Miscellaneous/ESRO-ELDO_bulletin24.pdfAnd worth noticing that "ESRO/ELSO bulletin" in English is "Bulletin - CERS/CECLES" in French. As some/all were bi-lingual. In theory you can search for either one.
Quote from: leovinus on 05/05/2024 05:49 pmQuote from: jcm on 05/05/2024 05:04 pmWhat I would love is a complete set of the ESRO/ELDO Bulletin (precursor to ESA Bulletin).I only have a handful of issues.Good question. Though offline, most of the bulletins should be a Library of Congress https://lccn.loc.gov/76645743> English and French.> Issues for May 1968-<Feb. 1972> issued with European Organisation for the Development and Construction of Space Vehicle Launchers under its variant name: European Space Vehicle Launcher Development Organisation.Anniversary issue here https://esamultimedia.esa.int/multimedia/publications/Miscellaneous/ESRO-ELDO_bulletin24.pdfAnd worth noticing that "ESRO/ELSO bulletin" in English is "Bulletin - CERS/CECLES" in French. As some/all were bi-lingual. In theory you can search for either one.Not much help but attached the three bulletins that I have. And look at all 32? front pages athttps://ruimtevaartdatabank.nl/pdfjs/web/viewer.html?file=/library/pdf/7095.pdf#search=&phrase=true
Study of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972
European space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908
- European space tug system study. Pre-phase A study summary ( MBB-URV-38-71-SUMMARY ] N73-19889- European space tug system study. Pre-phase A study extension ( MBB-URV-44-71 ] N73-19890- European space tug. Phase A study: Comprehensive tug concepts size and systems analysis vs. mission requirement model coverage and program cost, volume 2,summary part1 [ MBB-URV-53-72-VOL-2-PT-1 ] N73-27765
To deepen the discussion, let me add a different angle here. While the ESA history website, AAS history, and Larousse are great for broad history, they are summaries by nature. Like the Cliff-notes. In a way, I'd love to go deep and go from high level summary (e.g. on rocket or upper stage), AAS History article, all the way to original technical reports from CNES, HSD, MBB etc to learn more. For example, for avionics or solarel electric propulsion, you could do a very different job today than in 1970. In the Reusable Agena thread we could do this via NTRS which has many of the primary documents. In Europe, there isn't a similar site to download primary technical documents. Bits and pieces everywhere. Which means that if you want to learn something new or re-interpret the orginal designs from the early 1970s then that is very difficult. The "Europa 1 & 2 manual" I dug up earlier here seems like an exception. As one example, just look at the 146 references in the attached paper and make a guess how many are still retrievable today. Spaceflight history is disappearing before our eyes. As another example, the European Space tug we discussed earlier. The European designs were from Messerschmidt-Boelkow Blohm (MBB) and Hawker-Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). One located tug study was QuoteStudy of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972 while the related study QuoteEuropean space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908 does not seem to be on the web as PDF anywhere. I am in the process of requesting a copy via DLR in Germany though.STAR tells us there should be at least three more tug studies by MBB Quote- European space tug system study. Pre-phase A study summary ( MBB-URV-38-71-SUMMARY ] N73-19889- European space tug system study. Pre-phase A study extension ( MBB-URV-44-71 ] N73-19890- European space tug. Phase A study: Comprehensive tug concepts size and systems analysis vs. mission requirement model coverage and program cost, volume 2,summary part1 [ MBB-URV-53-72-VOL-2-PT-1 ] N73-27765 but neither DLR nor ESA seem to have copies when I asked them. Also not on NTRS or NTRL. Does one of you know where these 1970s MBB documents ended up? In the shredder? Or transferred via DASA (who acquired MBB) to Airbus and maybe these docs are sitting in an Airbus archive in Bavaria collecting dust? Or are there copies in a dusty attic box somewhere? At a university maybe in Muenchen? Or forgotten copies at NASA? How would you go about to find these reports for further study? Someone will know. Same question of HSD in the UK, and reports in from CNES/France and Italy. I know, not an easy ask. An older but similar question about LMSC lead to the Smithsonian where there are copies while the LMSC libraries are just "gone".For the example of MBB, STAR shows several dozens of reports with there accession numbers like N73-19890. Sadly, NTRL has only has very few copies. There might be more on microfilm as the Smithsonian, for example, but that is hard to check at the moment. For MBB, CNES, Hawker, we located many of these reports and I posted some screenshots in the "Reusable Agena" thread. We could simple ask "Where is the rest of those orginal European studies and who has copies? Where they archived?". Something to think about. I can post some lists from 1969 to 1975 if you'd like to see for a company of choice.
Quote from: leovinus on 05/06/2024 06:04 pmTo deepen the discussion, let me add a different angle here. While the ESA history website, AAS history, and Larousse are great for broad history, they are summaries by nature. Like the Cliff-notes. In a way, I'd love to go deep and go from high level summary (e.g. on rocket or upper stage), AAS History article, all the way to original technical reports from CNES, HSD, MBB etc to learn more. For example, for avionics or solarel electric propulsion, you could do a very different job today than in 1970. In the Reusable Agena thread we could do this via NTRS which has many of the primary documents. In Europe, there isn't a similar site to download primary technical documents. Bits and pieces everywhere. Which means that if you want to learn something new or re-interpret the orginal designs from the early 1970s then that is very difficult. The "Europa 1 & 2 manual" I dug up earlier here seems like an exception. As one example, just look at the 146 references in the attached paper and make a guess how many are still retrievable today. Spaceflight history is disappearing before our eyes. As another example, the European Space tug we discussed earlier. The European designs were from Messerschmidt-Boelkow Blohm (MBB) and Hawker-Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). One located tug study was QuoteStudy of the Use of Post-Apollo Transportation Elements for High-Energy Solar System Exploration Mission (HESSEM), MBB-URV-52(72), N72-33878, June 1972 while the related study QuoteEuropean space tug system study. Pre-phase A ( MBB-URV-38-71 ] N73-19908 does not seem to be on the web as PDF anywhere. I am in the process of requesting a copy via DLR in Germany though.STAR tells us there should be at least three more tug studies by MBB Quote- European space tug system study. Pre-phase A study summary ( MBB-URV-38-71-SUMMARY ] N73-19889- European space tug system study. Pre-phase A study extension ( MBB-URV-44-71 ] N73-19890- European space tug. Phase A study: Comprehensive tug concepts size and systems analysis vs. mission requirement model coverage and program cost, volume 2,summary part1 [ MBB-URV-53-72-VOL-2-PT-1 ] N73-27765 but neither DLR nor ESA seem to have copies when I asked them. Also not on NTRS or NTRL. Does one of you know where these 1970s MBB documents ended up? In the shredder? Or transferred via DASA (who acquired MBB) to Airbus and maybe these docs are sitting in an Airbus archive in Bavaria collecting dust? Or are there copies in a dusty attic box somewhere? At a university maybe in Muenchen? Or forgotten copies at NASA? How would you go about to find these reports for further study? Someone will know. Same question of HSD in the UK, and reports in from CNES/France and Italy. I know, not an easy ask. An older but similar question about LMSC lead to the Smithsonian where there are copies while the LMSC libraries are just "gone".For the example of MBB, STAR shows several dozens of reports with there accession numbers like N73-19890. Sadly, NTRL has only has very few copies. There might be more on microfilm as the Smithsonian, for example, but that is hard to check at the moment. For MBB, CNES, Hawker, we located many of these reports and I posted some screenshots in the "Reusable Agena" thread. We could simple ask "Where is the rest of those orginal European studies and who has copies? Where they archived?". Something to think about. I can post some lists from 1969 to 1975 if you'd like to see for a company of choice.There's just not the same tradition of industrial history in Europe as in the USA.
The consolidation and gradual privatisation of the european aerospace industry has also been terrible for the availability of many archives. For something as old as the 60s, in a lot of case archiving i s only done by enthusiast former employees. On top of that ESA and the national space agency doesn't have the same tradition of openness to the public/taxpayers as NASA. And finally "internetisation" in some of these old structures isn't as advanced as in the US.
I have been impressed for example by the archival donation of local aerospace history documents that has occurred to the Huntington museum in Pasadena of which one or two have been shown in exhibitions.What would a European analogue to this look like ?
