Author Topic: Node Module - Russian segment  (Read 142811 times)

Offline FinalFrontier

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #120 on: 06/27/2012 05:38 am »
The Nodal Module's primary purpose is to host these, which will be required because the RS requires more power. Currently, they use US power to make up for the shortfall, under a barter arrangement that will run out in less than a few years. The US can then repurpose that power for other uses we will be needing it for. Officially, "RS complete" milestone, according to NASA is the addition of MLM, but the Russian Space Agency has a different definition of "RS complete" and that is at the addition of the second S&PPM.

I am now wondering how the power from those hypothetical power modules would be routed into the Russian segment, its not as if the MLM has been modified to somehow transmit that level of energy up into the base block.


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Offline PeterAlt

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #121 on: 06/27/2012 07:05 am »
The Nodal Module's primary purpose is to host these, which will be required because the RS requires more power. Currently, they use US power to make up for the shortfall, under a barter arrangement that will run out in less than a few years. The US can then repurpose that power for other uses we will be needing it for. Officially, "RS complete" milestone, according to NASA is the addition of MLM, but the Russian Space Agency has a different definition of "RS complete" and that is at the addition of the second S&PPM.

I am now wondering how the power from those hypothetical power modules would be routed into the Russian segment, its not as if the MLM has been modified to somehow transmit that level of energy up into the base block.


The SM, FGB (folded), and soon the MLM produce power. So do the Progress, Soyuz, and ATV vehicles, but I think those arrays provide partial power to those vehicles while docked to the station. The power generated from the RS modules are added to the station power grid. The remaining power that is required for the RS is managed and taken from the USOS. Supposedly, the two power modules will allow the RS to be independent of the USOS, as far as power is concerned. I can see why the Russians would want this. After all, they've decided to pay a heavy price for their own GPS constellation because of their desire for independence. I'm sure they won't cut the connection between the RS and the USOS power grid, as one could at any time use more than supply. In that case, an interconnected system would borrow excess power from the other in order to meet a spike in demand and keep all systems operating smoothly.

Online Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #122 on: 06/29/2012 10:16 am »
Some details in the 2011 Energiya annual report, where we learn that UM is internally called "573ГК".

Quote
Создание узлового модуля (УМ)

13 января 2011 года проведен научно-технический совет, на котором были рассмотрены и одобрены материалы эскизного проекта (ЭП) на УМ. В соответствии с решением совета материалы ЭП были направлены на экспертизу в ФГУП ЦНИИ машиностроения, по результатам которой был подготовлен План-график реализации мероприятий по устранению замечаний, содержащихся в Заключении ФГУП ЦНИИ машиностроения на ЭП по УМ №573ГК-3/106-11. Эскизный проект УМ откорректирован в соответствии с план-графиком.

В течение года проводились работы по выпуску конструкторской документации для изготовления УМ, в том числе по корректировке проектной документации по результатам выпуска конструкторской документации, включая корректировку эскизного проекта на РС МКС по интеграции модуля УМ.
« Last Edit: 06/29/2012 10:23 am by Nicolas PILLET »
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #123 on: 06/29/2012 04:58 pm »
Google translated version:

Quote
Create a node module (CM)

January 13, 2011 held scientific and technical council, which reviewed and approved preliminary design materials (EPO) at UM. In accordance with the decision of the Board of EP materials were sent for examination in the Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Central Research Institute of Machine Building," the results of which had been prepared "Schedule of activities to address the comments contained in the Opinion of FSUE" Central Research Institute of Machine Building "on the EP on the number 573GK UM-3 / 106-11. The draft of the PA is adjusted in accordance with the schedule.

During the year the work was carried out for the production of design documentation for the production of PA, including adjustments to the design documentation for the release of the results of the design documentation, including adjustments to the preliminary design for the integration of the RS ISS module UM.

Offline The man in the can

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #124 on: 07/25/2012 02:07 am »
UM construction at RSC Energia (photo from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum).
Wow beautiful photo of the Node module under construction. Wait...
this photo...
is in black and white  ???
I don't want to be cinic but how do we know it's not an old photo of Mir hardware?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #125 on: 07/25/2012 02:11 am »

I don't want to be cinic but how do we know it's not an old photo of Mir hardware?

Because the docking adapters are much smaller in comparison with the Node hull, because the Node has a diameter of 3.3 meters, compared with the 2.2 meters for the Mir node.


Offline The man in the can

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #126 on: 07/25/2012 02:23 am »

I don't want to be cinic but how do we know it's not an old photo of Mir hardware?
Because the docking adapters are much smaller in comparison with the Node hull, because the Node has a diameter of 3.3 meters, compared with the 2.2 meters for the Mir node.
Thanks! it was a quick reply!  :)
« Last Edit: 07/25/2012 02:40 am by The man in the can »

Offline woods170

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #127 on: 12/17/2012 08:30 pm »
How would a "Transformed Hybrid" port work? ??? Do the standard and hybrid ports not have different diameters?

As far as I can tell, they would simply put an APAS docking collar around the outer edge of the standard Probe & Drogue docking collar.

Obviously, this would mean that the hatchway wouldn't be as wide as the standard Hybrid system hatchway.

Attached is a graphic produced by me.
Nice graphic, but it is in error.
The inner diameter of the APAS docking ring is 125.5 cm.
The outer diameter of the SSVP-G4000 (standard russian drogue&cone docking system as used on Soyuz, Progress and ATV) is at least 10 cm. larger than the APAS docking ring inner diameter.
Put in short: simply fitting an APAS docking ring around the standard drogue&cone assembly doesn't work.
So, I still wonder what this transformed hybrid docking port on MLM nadir en Node Module nadir really looks like.

Offline 360-180

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #128 on: 12/18/2012 02:58 am »
How would a "Transformed Hybrid" port work? ??? Do the standard and hybrid ports not have different diameters?

As far as I can tell, they would simply put an APAS docking collar around the outer edge of the standard Probe & Drogue docking collar.

Obviously, this would mean that the hatchway wouldn't be as wide as the standard Hybrid system hatchway.

Attached is a graphic produced by me.
Nice graphic, but it is in error.
The inner diameter of the APAS docking ring is 125.5 cm.
The outer diameter of the SSVP-G4000 (standard russian drogue&cone docking system as used on Soyuz, Progress and ATV) is at least 10 cm. larger than the APAS docking ring inner diameter.
Put in short: simply fitting an APAS docking ring around the standard drogue&cone assembly doesn't work.
So, I still wonder what this transformed hybrid docking port on MLM nadir en Node Module nadir really looks like.
Interfaces SSVP-4000 and SSVP-8000 can be combined in a single plane.
Thanks member m-s Gelezniak from NК forum.

Offline woods170

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #129 on: 12/18/2012 08:46 am »
How would a "Transformed Hybrid" port work? ??? Do the standard and hybrid ports not have different diameters?

As far as I can tell, they would simply put an APAS docking collar around the outer edge of the standard Probe & Drogue docking collar.

Obviously, this would mean that the hatchway wouldn't be as wide as the standard Hybrid system hatchway.

Attached is a graphic produced by me.
Nice graphic, but it is in error.
The inner diameter of the APAS docking ring is 125.5 cm.
The outer diameter of the SSVP-G4000 (standard russian drogue&cone docking system as used on Soyuz, Progress and ATV) is at least 10 cm. larger than the APAS docking ring inner diameter.
Put in short: simply fitting an APAS docking ring around the standard drogue&cone assembly doesn't work.
So, I still wonder what this transformed hybrid docking port on MLM nadir en Node Module nadir really looks like.
Interfaces SSVP-4000 and SSVP-8000 can be combined in a single plane.
Thanks member m-s Gelezniak from NК forum.


Nice graphic. But again, my problem with this is that it's just a graphic. What I need is hard numbers for the diameters. I have a number for the inner diameter of the APAS-89/95 docking ring (SSVP-M8000). I also have a number for the outer diameter of the SSVP-G4000 docking ring.
And those numbers, quite literally, don't fit.
So, either one of those numbers is wrong, or the graphics are wrong.
Therefore: we need hard numbers on the diameters of the hard capture interfaces of SSVP-G4000 and SSVP-M8000. Does anyone have a source or link to a source where we can find those numbers? Particularly for SSVP-G4000. That's the legacy system, and I can't find solid numbers on it.

Offline 360-180

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #130 on: 12/19/2012 07:06 am »
I was talking only about the docking  interfaces. Not about the docking units.
The history of the hybrid mechanism can be found in the book "100 Stories About Docking and Other Adventures in Space" by Vladimir Syromiatnikov. Chapter 4.10
Hybrid unit uses a docking structural ring of APAS-89(95).

Offline woods170

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #131 on: 12/19/2012 09:43 am »
I was talking only about the docking  interfaces. Not about the docking units.
The history of the hybrid mechanism can be found in the book "100 Stories About Docking and Other Adventures in Space" by Vladimir Syromiatnikov. Chapter 4.10
Hybrid unit uses a docking structural ring of APAS-89(95).
Yes, the latter part I know. IDS also uses the APAS-89/95 structural ring. It's called the Hard Capture Assembly in the IDS specs.

Regarding the book: Unfortunately I'm not in a position to own mr. Syromiatnikov's excellent book. But I know it's a real good book. One of my contacts in the aerospace industry has a copy, signed by Vladimir himself. Too bad I can't afford a copy.

Offline manboy

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #132 on: 12/19/2012 02:13 pm »
I was talking only about the docking  interfaces. Not about the docking units.
The history of the hybrid mechanism can be found in the book "100 Stories About Docking and Other Adventures in Space" by Vladimir Syromiatnikov. Chapter 4.10
Hybrid unit uses a docking structural ring of APAS-89(95).
I've been looking to find a copy of this book for years but neither Amazon nor Ebay has it.
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Offline 360-180

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #133 on: 12/19/2012 03:24 pm »
"100 Stories About Docking and Other Adventures in Space"
In russian 100 рассказов о стыковке и о других приключениях в космосе и на Земле часть 1 главы 1-2 2003 (volume1, chapters 1-3, 2003) часть 2 главы 3-5 2008 (volume 2, chapters 3-5, 2008).
I think that in 2005, published in English, only the first volume of this book
 

Modify:'the book, translated by the Author, under the title 100 Stories about Docking and other Adventures in Space and on Earth (Volume 1 20 Years back) was published in English.'
« Last Edit: 12/24/2012 04:32 am by 360-180 »

Offline manboy

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #134 on: 12/19/2012 05:09 pm »
"100 Stories About Docking and Other Adventures in Space"
In russian 100 рассказов о стыковке и о других приключениях в космосе и на Земле часть 1 главы 1-2 2003 (volume1, chapters 1-3, 2003) часть 2 главы 3-5 2008 (volume 2, chapters 3-5, 2008).
I think that in 2005, published in English, only the first volume of this book
 
I've heard from several people that it was very poorly translated. Anyway both the Russian and English editions appear to be rare (at least in the United States). And according to worldcat only four libraries in the US hold a copy of the English edition and five have the Russian edition. Luckily the Library of Congress has all the volumes and I travel to D.C. at least annually so maybe next time I visit I'll sit down and spend my day scanning all the books.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2012 05:23 pm by manboy »
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Offline Stan Black

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #135 on: 01/01/2013 10:23 am »
Thanks to all who figured out the MLM docking system.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23444

Now to the UM.

Is it to feature a similiar discarble adaptor on its nadir passive port? So how will NEM-1 be received? It will dock only with the probe, before Ljappa transitions it to a side port?

Offline PeterAlt

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #136 on: 01/01/2013 11:58 pm »
I spoke too early and on the wrong thread when I asked in my second point in my recent post on the MLM thread. See that thread for the question when all six docking systems are known for certain on the Node Module.
« Last Edit: 02/18/2013 10:48 pm by PeterAlt »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #137 on: 01/02/2013 04:57 am »
"100 Stories About Docking and Other Adventures in Space"
In russian 100 рассказов о стыковке и о других приключениях в космосе и на Земле часть 1 главы 1-2 2003 (volume1, chapters 1-3, 2003) часть 2 главы 3-5 2008 (volume 2, chapters 3-5, 2008).
I think that in 2005, published in English, only the first volume of this book
 
I've heard from several people that it was very poorly translated. Anyway both the Russian and English editions appear to be rare (at least in the United States). And according to worldcat only four libraries in the US hold a copy of the English edition and five have the Russian edition. Luckily the Library of Congress has all the volumes and I travel to D.C. at least annually so maybe next time I visit I'll sit down and spend my day scanning all the books.

Hey, I know the story behind this one!

There is a Volume I and a Volume II. Although Volume I was translated into English, AFAIK, Vol II never was.

I was given the job of translating parts of Vol I from the original English translation into actual English; you will find that the translation of Vol I is wildly different, depending on the chapter you are reading. I did most of the editing while sitting on airplanes, which made things a little more difficult.

Vol I is available from Univelt:

http://www.univelt.com/book=604

http://www.univelt.com/univeltdist/100_Stories.pdf




Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #138 on: 01/02/2013 04:59 am »
Nice graphic, but it is in error.
The inner diameter of the APAS docking ring is 125.5 cm.
The outer diameter of the SSVP-G4000 (standard russian drogue&cone docking system as used on Soyuz, Progress and ATV) is at least 10 cm. larger than the APAS docking ring inner diameter.
Put in short: simply fitting an APAS docking ring around the standard drogue&cone assembly doesn't work.
So, I still wonder what this transformed hybrid docking port on MLM nadir en Node Module nadir really looks like.

My documentation states that the APAS/Hybrid collar allows a passage of 1100 mm (although all but 800 mm is blocked for the APAS implementation).

Offline 360-180

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #139 on: 01/08/2013 08:51 am »
Is it to feature a similiar discarble adaptor on its nadir passive port? So how will NEM-1 be received? It will dock only with the probe, before Ljappa transitions it to a side port?
I'm almost sure of it.
According specification NEM-1: (Google&my translation) :)

- A mechanical connection with the docking assembly NEM-1 UM; (-   механическое соединение)
- NEM-1 transfer from the nadir docking assembly to the side of the UM through robotic arm NEM-1;(-   перестыковка НЭМ )
- Hard mechanical connection between the UM and NEM-1. NEM-1 during docking docking unit to the side to form a UM tight passage between modules and  hydraulic and electrical linkages units;(-   жесткое механическое соединение НЭМ с УМ )

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