Author Topic: Node Module - Russian segment  (Read 141628 times)

Offline Danderman

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Node Module - Russian segment
« on: 10/04/2010 04:23 pm »
Although the cartoons shown by the Russians of the Node module indicate that its going to be a simple copy of the nodes currently at the Russian segment on Zarya and Zvesda, I believe that this is what the real Node module would look like:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4597/shlots.jpg

The Node module would likely be launched by a Soyuz-2, and thus have a capacity for about 5 tons of mass, after the PAO-Service Module is accounted for. The cartoons show a small node with a mass of no more than 2 tons, but this version would have a mass of about 5 tons. The source for the image is the Orbital Technologies Commercial Space Platform, but I believe that they are simply "borrowing" the design for the ISS Node Module.

Offline Space Pete

Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #1 on: 10/04/2010 05:54 pm »
This particular node doesn't appear to have any extra docking ports (which is the reason for adding the node). It only appears to have EVA hatches. So, unless Roscosmos plan to replace the hatches with docking ports, there would be no purpose in adding this particular node to the ISS, as the Russian Segment already has an airlock (MRM-2).
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #2 on: 10/04/2010 06:19 pm »
This particular node doesn't appear to have any extra docking ports (which is the reason for adding the node). It only appears to have EVA hatches. So, unless Roscosmos plan to replace the hatches with docking ports, there would be no purpose in adding this particular node to the ISS, as the Russian Segment already has an airlock (MRM-2).

Nyet problema, there are 2 female docking ports on the node, which would support the two Solar Modules.

Offline PeterAlt

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #3 on: 10/19/2010 05:23 pm »
Another thing I have not seen anyone mention on here is that a Russian Node module may have another use (besides hosting the the two power platforms and laboratory modules): Chinese inclusion as a full-fledged ISS partner. If you look at the currently planned Chinese space station, you'd see that it consists of two large modules connected by a six-sided node module at it's core. This Chinese node module looks very much like the planned Russian node module. Maybe this is not coincidental, as the Chinese may plan to negotiate for the Russian node module's two unused ports for use in attaching the two large Chinese modules (planned for the future independent Chinese space station) to. Or could they add their node to the aft port of the Russian node module? With Bolden visiting China now and warm remarks by all of the ISS partners regarding Chinese participation and the recent life extention of ISS to at least 2020, Chinese participation beginning around 2015 is not at all impossible.
« Last Edit: 10/19/2010 07:10 pm by PeterAlt »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #4 on: 10/20/2010 06:17 am »
The only available ports for the Node module will be the two lateral ports, and they are reserved for the new solar power modules.

Offline paycom

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #5 on: 10/20/2010 10:35 am »
This "node module" seems to be he core module for the commercial space station planned by orbitaltechnologies.
The images on this page picture the same module.
« Last Edit: 10/20/2010 10:50 am by paycom »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #6 on: 10/20/2010 03:49 pm »
This "node module" seems to be he core module for the commercial space station planned by orbitaltechnologies.
The images on this page picture the same module.

Yep, that's what the very first message in this thread says.

 ::)

« Last Edit: 10/20/2010 04:09 pm by Danderman »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #7 on: 12/17/2010 03:20 pm »
I should mention this tidbit from russianspaceweb.com:

"The zenith (upward facing) docking port of the Node Module will likely be equipped with the so-called active hybrid docking port, which enables docking with a MLM module. Remaining five ports would be passive hybrids, enabling docking of Soyuz and Progress vehicles, as well as heavier modules and future spacecraft with modified docking systems. "

This implies that MLM will be launched with a nadir hybrid docking port, which will preclude vehicles like Progress and Soyuz from docking with this port, unless modified. Docking of MLM to ISS with a nadir hybrid docking port would then reduce Russian segment docking ports (available to Soyuz or Progress) from 4 to 3, ending 6 person occupancy of ISS, without something different happening.

« Last Edit: 12/17/2010 03:23 pm by Danderman »

Offline Space Pete

Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #8 on: 12/17/2010 03:46 pm »
I should mention this tidbit from russianspaceweb.com:

"The zenith (upward facing) docking port of the Node Module will likely be equipped with the so-called active hybrid docking port, which enables docking with a MLM module. Remaining five ports would be passive hybrids, enabling docking of Soyuz and Progress vehicles, as well as heavier modules and future spacecraft with modified docking systems. "

This implies that MLM will be launched with a nadir hybrid docking port, which will preclude vehicles like Progress and Soyuz from docking with this port, unless modified. Docking of MLM to ISS with a nadir hybrid docking port would then reduce Russian segment docking ports (available to Soyuz or Progress) from 4 to 3, ending 6 person occupancy of ISS, without something different happening.

Yes, exactly.

If MLM were to have a Nadir Hybrid port, then no Soyuzes or Progresses would be able to dock there.

This would also be the case with the Node Module (the Nadir port of the Node would have to be a standard drogue in order to facilitate Soyuz/Progress dockings).
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Offline arkaska

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #9 on: 12/17/2010 04:08 pm »
Maybe they plan to keep Pirs? It has a hybrid, right?

Offline Space Pete

Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #10 on: 12/17/2010 04:57 pm »
Maybe they plan to keep Pirs? It has a hybrid, right?

Yes, it has a Hybrid on Zenith.

However, its Nadir is a passive Drogue - so that end would not be able to berth to ISS without occupying a Soyuz/Progress port.
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Offline arkaska

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #11 on: 12/18/2010 01:03 am »
Yes, it has a Hybrid on Zenith.

However, its Nadir is a passive Drogue - so that end would not be able to berth to ISS without occupying a Soyuz/Progress port.

Maybe I've should have been clearer. I meant put Pirs on MLM Nadir to keep it as a docking port for Soyuz/Progress.

I'm sure they are not planning to go down to 3 docking ports on the RS and go down to a 3 person crew.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #12 on: 12/18/2010 06:07 am »
Maybe I've should have been clearer. I meant put Pirs on MLM Nadir to keep it as a docking port for Soyuz/Progress.

I'm sure they are not planning to go down to 3 docking ports on the RS and go down to a 3 person crew.

Since MLM would occupy the same docking port as Pirs (Zvezda nadir), it would be tough to maintain the two different vehicles at the same time. To dock MLM to ISS, Pirs cannot remain at Zvezda nadir.

IF MLM truly has a female hybrid adapter at its nadir port, it might be possible to remove Pirs from ISS via a Progress, station-keep while MLM docks at ISS, and then re-dock Pirs to MLM nadir, thus maintaining a cone docking adapter at Pirs nadir. I am using the word "possible" loosely, here though.  I can think of a bunch of technical issues that would arise from such an exercise.



Offline arkaska

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #13 on: 12/18/2010 02:15 pm »
I understand the problem with keeping Pirs but do we really think they will go down to 3 RS docking ports? At the same time they probably wants a hybrid for the Node Module since it has a bigger diameter.

What is most likely, that MLM will actually have a hybrid or drogue?
« Last Edit: 12/18/2010 02:20 pm by arkaska »

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #14 on: 12/18/2010 02:32 pm »
I understand the problem with keeping Pirs but do we really think they will go down to 3 RS docking ports? At the same time they probably wants a hybrid for the Node Module since it has a bigger diameter.

What is most likely, that MLM will actually have a hybrid or drogue?

Since MLM is actually FGB-2, and FGB-2's forward (nadir) docking port was/is 1100 mm in diameter, I suspect that today the plan is to equip the MLM nadir port with hybrid.  It would be possible for the 2012-2013 period to launch a couple of Progress to that port, equipped with hybrid docking systems, in the worst case. Hopefully, the Node module would launch on time to provide a standard nadir probe and cone port soon afterwards.


Offline anik

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #15 on: 12/18/2010 02:53 pm »
Multipurpose laboratory module will have the nadir passive combined docking unit (система стыковки пассивная комбинированная ССП-К).

Node module will have the zenith active hybrid transformed docking unit (система стыковки активная гибридная трансформируемая ССА-ГТ), nadir passive combined docking unit and four lateral passive hybrid docking units (система стыковки пассивная гибридная ССПГ).

Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #16 on: 12/18/2010 03:33 pm »
Multipurpose laboratory module will have the nadir passive combined docking unit (система стыковки пассивная комбинированная ССП-К).

Node module will have the zenith active hybrid transformed docking unit (система стыковки активная гибридная трансформируемая ССА-ГТ), nadir passive combined docking unit and four lateral passive hybrid docking units (система стыковки пассивная гибридная ССПГ).

So, how does the MLM nadir passive combined docking unit connect to the Node module's zenith active hybrid transformed docking unit?

« Last Edit: 12/18/2010 03:34 pm by Danderman »

Offline Space Pete

Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #17 on: 12/18/2010 04:08 pm »
Multipurpose laboratory module will have the nadir passive combined docking unit (система стыковки пассивная комбинированная ССП-К).

Node module will have the zenith active hybrid transformed docking unit (система стыковки активная гибридная трансформируемая ССА-ГТ), nadir passive combined docking unit and four lateral passive hybrid docking units (система стыковки пассивная гибридная ССПГ).

So, basically, MLM Nadir and Node Nadir will be able to take Soyuzes & Progresses, and Hybrid vehicles.
« Last Edit: 12/18/2010 04:11 pm by Space Pete »
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #18 on: 12/18/2010 07:12 pm »
Multipurpose laboratory module will have the nadir passive combined docking unit (система стыковки пассивная комбинированная ССП-К).

Node module will have the zenith active hybrid transformed docking unit (система стыковки активная гибридная трансформируемая ССА-ГТ), nadir passive combined docking unit and four lateral passive hybrid docking units (система стыковки пассивная гибридная ССПГ).

So, basically, MLM Nadir and Node Nadir will be able to take Soyuzes & Progresses, and Hybrid vehicles.

Well, we are left with conflicting reports about docking ports. To be clear, if the above reports are true, MLM and the Node module cannot connect, so something is wrong.

Offline Space Pete

Re: Node Module - Russian segment
« Reply #19 on: 12/18/2010 07:24 pm »
Multipurpose laboratory module will have the nadir passive combined docking unit (система стыковки пассивная комбинированная ССП-К).

Node module will have the zenith active hybrid transformed docking unit (система стыковки активная гибридная трансформируемая ССА-ГТ), nadir passive combined docking unit and four lateral passive hybrid docking units (система стыковки пассивная гибридная ССПГ).

So, basically, MLM Nadir and Node Nadir will be able to take Soyuzes & Progresses, and Hybrid vehicles.

Well, we are left with conflicting reports about docking ports. To be clear, if the above reports are true, MLM and the Node module cannot connect, so something is wrong.

How so? Anik's post suggests that MLM Nadir will be a passive system capable of accepting Active Probe & Active Hybrid systems.

His post also suggests that Node Zenith will have some kind of Active Hybrid system.

That makes a linkup possible.
« Last Edit: 12/18/2010 07:25 pm by Space Pete »
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