Author Topic: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage  (Read 683937 times)

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #300 on: 08/05/2018 08:34 am »
"Hopefully they increase the mass of Chandraayan-2 to fully utilise MK-3's capability."

It's a bit too late to be making any changes, if they want to launch in January!  Change nothing at all would be my advice. 
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
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Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #301 on: 08/05/2018 10:50 am »
^
Agree. There's a little too much of that nationalism and jingoism in Bagla's reports- and he's supposed to be a science writer!  It's okay to mention it, but it shouldn't be the centrepiece or the dominant theme. I don't like Frontline magazine( way too left politically!) but they have excellent science and technology articles by T.S Subramanian and R. Ramachandran, particularly in the area of aerospace. The first, second, 5th, 6th et al are certainly brought up, as they should be, but the accent is on the actual science and technology, and the challenges therein.

No buck no buck rogers.  To most in India the science means very little but the nationalism aspect of it means a lot 

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #302 on: 08/06/2018 12:59 am »
Now TimesofIndia is saying that Chandrayaan-2 Mission has been put off till December.

Source : Chandrayaan-2 launch put off: India, Israel in lunar race for 4th position

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India's most ambitious Chandrayaan-2 mission, which was earlier scheduled for October first week, has been postponed till December, according to an Isro source.

Unlike the Chandrayaan-1 programme in 2008 that involved only orbiting around the moon, Chandrayaan-2 is a much complicated mission as it involves an orbiter, a lander and a rover. The mission involves a soft-landing on the lunar surface and a rover that will walk and analysis the content on the moon's surface. Being India's most challenging mission, Isro doesn't want to take chances and taking time to fix all glitches in the lunar mission.

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As the weight of the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft has increased, according to the source, GSLV Mk III or Isro's 'fat boy' will now carry the spacecraft as it has the lifting capability of over four tonne. According to the earlier plan, GSLV Mk II which just three-tonne lifting capability was supposed to carry the payload.

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Describing India's Chandrayaan-2 mission, the Isro chairman had earlier told TOI, "It is totally an indigenous programme. All components of the Chandrayaan-2 mission, including an orbiter, a lander and a rover, have been developed in the country. There integration is going on and they all are undergoing rigorous tests.

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On reaching the moon's orbit, the lander will get detached from the orbiter and soft-land on the lunar surface. The six-wheeled rover fixed within the lander will get detached and move on the lunar surface for around 100 metres. It will spend 14 Earth days (one moon day) and analyse the content. It will also take photos of the moon's surface and relay the images back to the Earth via the orbiter within 15 minutes."

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Offline worldtimedate

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #303 on: 08/06/2018 09:55 pm »
The following article from the Week is reporting the rethrottling problem with the lander. It appears to me that once ISRO crosses this hurdle related to the lander and the GSLV MK-III comes to fruition in its full payload capacity, this will open door for ISRO many such interplanetary missions.

Source : What caused delay in ISRO's Chandrayaan-2 launch

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Sources say that this time, the delay was caused because the indigenously developed lander was having trouble with rethrottling. The lander has now gone back to the design table for a design change. "The lander was developing vibrations at the time of rethrottling. The problem appears to be with the thrusters," said a senior level official at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

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Though the launch has been shifted by just three months but given that the vehicle taking the lander to the moon is also changing, a further delay may not be a surprise. Previously, the GSLV II was scheduled to ferry Chandrayaan 2, now it is reported that the heaviest vehicle in ISRO's stable, the Bahubali or GSLV III, is the vehicle of choice.

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The development has taken time, and given that it is the first time India is developing a lander, the programme has faced many glitches like the present one. While no date was announced for the mission for a long time, it was finally said the rocket would take off in April 2018. But the launch was shifted to the next window, October 2018 and now it has been shifted further.

Sources say that while postponements are disappointing, one cannot compromise accuracy just to stay ahead in the race. A GSLV Mk III launch costs around Rs 4 billion and it also entails years of research and development. Every component needs to be precise before such an ambitious mission can be launched.

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Offline PonRam

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #304 on: 08/08/2018 03:10 am »
Good that they detect and eliminate all these issues here itself. It is an invaluable learning experience for ISRO on throttling of engines to soft land the lander and rover. Experience gained can be resued in returning stages of launch vehicles back to earth too.

Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #305 on: 08/12/2018 03:10 am »
Change to the mission - the lander will do some low orbital passes over the lunar surface before going for landing:


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-wants-chandrayaan-2-lander-to-orbit-moon-first/articleshow/65370820.cms

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The decision on how many orbits the Lander will make has not yet been taken, but it will be a 100x30 (100km on one side and 30 on the other) elliptical orbit, which means that the entire configuration of the mission has now changed, in effect, causing the delay.

“Earlier, the plan was to gradually go down from 100km and reach 18km from the Moon’s surface. From there, the orientation would change, making the Lander go slightly horizontal for about 8.5km and then we were to change the orientation and velocity further to make the soft landing,” a senior member of the Chandrayaan-2 team said.

Now, as per the revised plans, the Lander has to go around the surface of the moon before entering the descent phase. Scientists working on the project say that this change in plan could have been avoided as the earlier configuration that was cleared would have achieved the main mission goals.

“This additional activity required by the Lander means a host of new hardware added. This is one method of achieving the landing, while the earlier one was another. Our job is to follow what the chairman and other seniors decide and develop things that can successfully complete the mission,” another scientist said.

This has also increased Chandrayaan-2 weight from 3,250kg to 3,850kg, which has prompted some changes, including moving to GSLV MK-III instead of the GSLV MK-II, which would have required an uprate to accommodate the additional weight.

New configuration & soft landing issue

As per the new configuration cleared after the fourth Comprehensive Technical Review (CTR) meeting held on June 19, among other things, the Lander would require a fifth liquid engine to manage the additional load of having to orbit, along with other hardware including a transponder which it earlier didn’t need.

“All these last-minute changes means that we have to test all the new hardware and then begin the fabrication process, which will delay the project. Also, the software algorithms need to change as the mission profile itself has been altered, and even this would need tests,” the scientist said.

“The fifth Centrally mounted 800N Steady State Liquid Engine with additional hardware has been included to mitigate upward draft of dust to craft while landing,” the Isro has found.

Also, the Lander will have a new Lander Leg configuration with increased base diameter (from 3.6m to 4.34m) which is to improve the stability margins.
Why the orbiting

According to the committee, the Lander is now required to orbit so that it can make “assessment of various system performances before the actual critical Powered,” and to do this, the descent phase requires the inclusion of four reaction wheel and its drive electronics as well as two micro Star Sensors (main & redundant) which will enable it to measure the moving velocity and help land.

It will also have transponders for ranging and doppler functions with the antenna configuration and a host of additional supporting systems—power, structure, thermal, etc, will also be added.

Besides, there will be two additional propellant tanks (390L capacity), additional pressurant tank (35.5L capacity) among other changes.


I don't mean to be a backbiter, but I worry that such major changes so near to the targeted launch date may cause rushed re-design and testing, thus increasing the chances of mission failure.

So is all of this being motivated by a desire to do some kind of systems validation ahead of the actual landing?

How do the current and former procedures for Chandrayaan-2 compare to other past attempts at landing on the Moon?
« Last Edit: 08/12/2018 03:34 am by sanman »

Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #306 on: 08/12/2018 04:02 am »
So this is the previous landing procedure for Chandrayaan-2, as posted by user Ohsin



In it, there's mention of terrain pattern-matching as part of the landing procedure. Could it be that they don't feel confident of their existing terrain maps, and want to take some fresh shots ("in operando") to match against before landing?

And so this resulting new sharper descent trajectory is why they need the extra hardware, including the extra 5th engine, in order to get the landing down pat?

(Google tells me that LIRAP stands for Laser Inertial Reference and Accelerometer Package)
« Last Edit: 08/12/2018 05:43 am by sanman »

Offline maint1234

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #307 on: 08/12/2018 05:34 am »
I believe the spate of issues with the launches last year , including the multiple IRNSS satellite problems has resulted in these decisions to delay. Totally support this decision as the moon is going nowhere but a suboptimal mission will impact morale and make headlines for all the wrong reasons. I would support a further delay if they can somehow extend the rover life from the present 1 moon day, 14 earth days ?

Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #308 on: 08/12/2018 06:07 am »
If there are going to be these low-altitude passes at 30km height over the lunar surface for terrain mapping, then will the effect of reflected solar heating become a more intense issue to deal with, as compared to what Chandrayaan-1 experienced at its relatively higher 100km altitude above the Moon?

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #309 on: 08/12/2018 06:58 pm »
"will the effect of reflected solar heating become a more intense issue to deal with"

No, because the low point will be at 70 degrees south where the surface is cooler, but also the designers will have taken that problem into account. 

" there's mention of terrain pattern-matching as part of the landing procedure. Could it be that they don't feel confident of their existing terrain maps, and want to take some fresh shots ... to match against before landing?"

No - this to help locate the lander.  Its images are compared with previous maps to identify its location, so it can be steered down to a precise landing.  This technology has been described before, e.g. by Astrobotic in the US for the Moon and for future Mars landings as well.  It will help ensure a safe landing by guiding the lander to the pre-selected safe location.

In other news...

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-s-second-lunar-mission-to-land-on-moon-with-lander-rover-isro/story-vqoGvAyk6hHuUL4SDa17GJ.html

Launch on or after 3 January 2019, and the lander named Vikram after V. Sarabhai. 
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
unmannedspaceflight.com (RIP), now posting content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke and https://discord.com/channels/1290524907624464394 as well as here. The Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #310 on: 08/12/2018 08:12 pm »
Hi, thanks for the responses  :)


No - this to help locate the lander.  Its images are compared with previous maps to identify its location, so it can be steered down to a precise landing.  This technology has been described before, e.g. by Astrobotic in the US for the Moon and for future Mars landings as well.  It will help ensure a safe landing by guiding the lander to the pre-selected safe location.

Yes, I'm aware of what the terrain pattern-matching is meant for - but obviously it has to be done against pre-stored maps of the lunar terrain (presumably based on Chandrayaan-1 data?)

So what I meant was - could it be that ISRO's review team doesn't have enough confidence in the pattern-matching system, or else in the quality of the maps being matched against, so that they wanted to make some low-altitude passes first, to ensure that it all works correctly?

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #311 on: 08/12/2018 08:35 pm »
Probably the LRO images would be used for the terrain map, as they would have 2 or 3 times better resolution.  My guess is that the low passes are intended to improve knowledge of the trajectory.  Drop to the final pre-descent orbit and make a couple more orbits while the trajectory is checked, then commit to the final descent.  Otherwise you are going from the higher orbit to the surface in one go.   
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
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Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #312 on: 08/12/2018 08:47 pm »
Probably the LRO images would be used for the terrain map, as they would have 2 or 3 times better resolution.  My guess is that the low passes are intended to improve knowledge of the trajectory.  Drop to the final pre-descent orbit and make a couple more orbits while the trajectory is checked, then commit to the final descent.  Otherwise you are going from the higher orbit to the surface in one go.   

I agree that LRO images would be unsurpassed in quality - but would ISRO even have access to that data for its mission purposes?

Also, given that the new descent trajectory requires the addition of a 5th engine, doesn't that make it sound more strenuous as compared to the original plan? (ie. higher loads, since you have less altitude in which to decelerate from orbital velocity)
« Last Edit: 08/12/2018 08:55 pm by sanman »

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #313 on: 08/12/2018 09:30 pm »
LRO images are freely available to anyone in the world via the LRO camera team website and NASA's Planetary Data System.  Chandrayaan 1 images are in principle, but they are much more difficult to access and some - the full set of Moon Impact Probe images - have never been released. 
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
unmannedspaceflight.com (RIP), now posting content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke and https://discord.com/channels/1290524907624464394 as well as here. The Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #314 on: 08/12/2018 09:34 pm »
ISRO hopes to launch Chandrayaan-2 between January 3 and Mid-March of 2019.

Source : Isro aims to launch 22 missions in 2019; 50 in 3 years

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Among the key missions to look for in 2019 will be the Chandrayaan-2, Aditya-L1 (India's solar mission) and two demonstration flights of the SSLV (small satellite launch vehicle).

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Isro hopes to start the new year (2019) with the launch of Chandrayaan-2, which has already been delayed owing to multiple changes that were needed. Sivan said that they are looking at a launch window between January 3 and mid-March. "We hope to meet the January 3 date," he said, while confirming TOI's August 12 report that the entire configuration of the mission has changed.

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Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #315 on: 08/16/2018 06:25 am »
from Nature:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05973-6

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The launch of India’s second spacecraft to the Moon has been delayed for the second time this year. Chandrayaan-2 had been expected to lift off in October, after it was pushed back from its original launch date in April.

Kailasavadivoo Sivan, chair of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in Bangalore, told reporters on 12 August that the agency is aiming to launch the craft on 3 January next year — although the mission has a launch window of any time between January and March. Chandrayaan-2 will carry an orbiter that will travel around the Moon; a lander that will attempt India’s first controlled, or soft, landing; and a rover.

Sivan said that there were several reasons for the latest delay, including design changes to ensure a smooth touchdown for the lander. He said these changes have increased the weight of the spacecraft and therefore the amount of fuel needed to complete the mission, which has further added to delays.

Offline sanman

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #316 on: 08/21/2018 11:27 am »
NASA's Moon Minerology Mapper hits it big, confirming water ice on the Moon:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ice-confirmed-at-the-moon-s-poles

The pics seem to show way more ice detected at the South Pole compared to the North Pole - I wonder why. Shouldn't we expect similar apportionment for both poles? What could be the reason for this?
I wonder how this could affect the Chandrayaan-2 mission?

Could Chandrayaan-2 have an opportunity to somehow follow up on the lunar ice data provided by M3?

I wish they'd just put the LIBS instrument thing on a small arm or mast, to give it a better view. How's it supposed to detect much when it's on the rover's underbelly? Curiosity's chemcam wasn't kept so blinkered.

Now that they've shifted to GSLV-Mk3 with its higher payload allowance, and now that they're even upgrading the lander, it would be nice if the rover could be made a little more functional. But I guess that would add to yet another goalpost being shifted at the last minute and delay things further.
« Last Edit: 08/21/2018 11:34 am by sanman »

Offline sghill

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #317 on: 08/21/2018 11:40 am »
NASA's Moon Minerology Mapper hits it big, confirming water ice on the Moon:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ice-confirmed-at-the-moon-s-poles

The pics seem to show way more ice detected at the South Pole compared to the North Pole - I wonder why. Shouldn't we expect similar apportionment for both poles? What could be the reason for this?
I wonder how this could affect the Chandrayaan-2 mission?

On Mars, the differences are explained by progression of the rotation axis over time, what used to be one of the poles is now facing closer to the sun.

Perhaps the Moon has similarly progressed some even with its rotation stabilized more by the Earth. The northern pole could have regularly pointed more at the sun in the past with the southern pole pointing away from the sun.
Bring the thunder!

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #318 on: 08/21/2018 05:03 pm »
Nothing to do with rotation, the answer is topography.  The south pole has more craters with permanent shadow in them than the north pole.  In the north, many craters are largely filled with ejecta from the Imbrium basin impact, so they are not very deep (e.g. Peary) and don't have much shadow area.  In the south, the gigantic South Pole-Aitken basin  (extending from Aitken crater at c. 20 degrees south to the South Pole itself) causes lower topography to begin with (plus mountain blocks which cast shadow), and there are other craters in the area to dig even deeper - Shoemaker, Haworth, Faustini, Amundsen, Cabeus to name only the biggest ones.  The result is much more permanent shadow in the south, and more opportunities for the ice to collect.

Chandrayaan 2 is landing at about 70 degrees south, nowhere near these ice deposits.  They will have to wait for future missions.
« Last Edit: 08/21/2018 05:04 pm by Phil Stooke »
Professor Emeritus, University of Western Ontario. Space exploration and planetary cartography, historical and present. A longtime poster on
unmannedspaceflight.com (RIP), now posting content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke and https://discord.com/channels/1290524907624464394 as well as here. The Solar System ain't gonna map itself.

Offline chota

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Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
« Reply #319 on: 08/28/2018 11:22 am »
Chandrayaan-2 Flight profile



Credit: https://twitter.com/sidhant

 

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